Outboard spark fix Part 1/2. Mercury/Johnson/Yamaha. CD ignition power-packs explained -Extended
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Marine Parts Online store (use search top right): amzn.to/46jXJWQ
*** Ill be making a slightly shorted and easier video with real world parts on the table - apologies for the ums and the ahs but trying to film one handed and think takes more brain cells than I have left :)
How do capacitor discharge (CD) power packs work? Most outboards utilize this kind of ignition system - from the 70s on- millions of outboards have used this (motorbikes included) - Here I will try my best to give u a clear understanding of how the power packs systems work in layman's terms and how to diagnose a no spark, bad coil, bad trigger or cdi power-pack easily without any special tools - just some logic and simple steps.
This example is a mercury/mariner 3 cylinder style but the same applies to all other outboards.. a 4 cylinder would have an extra pair of studs/wires, a 2 cylinder less- each cylinder would have 2 wires basically.
Check out part 2 of this video here:
• Outboard spark fix par...
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
This was explained so simply. I have a very clear understanding of the ignition system of the Mercury in the boat I bought. If it doesn’t start it certainly wont be because of the ignition system.
You are a good teacher, you explained how these things actually operate.i can now start to understand what is happening and how I might be able to track the problem.
Outstanding explanation! Not long winded at all, just reinforced education. Thank you!
You are very good at explaining this system. I now understand exactly how it works and I know how to troubleshoot and find what part is out. Thank you.
This was a valuable explanation of how the electrical system works on an outboard, especially Mercury. Thanks a bunch. My 200 EFI went dead all at once, all cylinders so I will start with the kill wires and then to the rectifier, etc. Thanks again.
How did it go? What was it?
Thanks! Even though I am working on an OMC outboard, your explanation of the relationship between the stator, rectifier, timer base, coils, and power pack is very helpful!
Wow ! A clear tutorial on dealing with a very intimidating looking piece of equipment. Thank you !
Excellent video and explanation of how the CDI packs work. Sure helped me with troubleshooting my electrical issue. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! I understand that perfectly now! I know what’s wrong with my 50 hp mercury
Wow thank you for this tutorial! I have my first ever outboard (evinrude v4) having issues with miss fire when engine is warm, this makes so much sense now.
Had to watch again to refresh my memory, took notes this time. I restore Mercury outboards to showroom and like being able to check all my parts for spec.
All I can say is THANK YOU! This video helped me understand my engine. Perfectly laid our so my brain can do it😊
Great explanation. I ordered the rectifier because I repaired everything else you can imagine. See what happens soon
How did it go?
@@mikesolns1364 I put everything new I could imagine. Maybe a part was bad from the store
Pretty good way of explaining... coming from another mechanic
Fantastic thank you for taking the mystery out of the system
Best explanation ever
Outstanding video! Thank you so much. Definitely helped me learn a lot. I just switched my power packs today. This definitely helped me understand them much better. 5 stars 💯
Thanks. It helps to understand the principle of ignition system.
I would put five thumbs up. Thank you so much! Great explanation!
Subbed.
Beautiful explanation to simplify a complex system!
Awesome video. Very detailed.Thank you so much.
Finally I know, many thanks, made it very simple!!!
This is excellent! Thank you!
Two thumbs up.
Great explanation.
👍👍
Thanks.
Best explanation ever!
Very informative video. Thanks for your time in making it. Great job!
Excellent explanation! Thankyou very much!
Great information
Thank you very good video on system,you make great learning videos
Glad you like them!
Mate love your work awesome explanation thank you for sharing
Thanks for the tutorial that was awesome I need more information working on a 1981 Mercury black Max 150 No spark on only 2 cylinders on one side.
Locate the pack for that bank and swap the bad wites with a good channel as explained.. if the dead issue stays in place the pack is not the issue, trigger is. . If u swap the trigger wires and plug coil wires and the issue moves with u its the trigger
Thank you, great explanation!
I like long winded thank you so much learned a lot thank you
Awesome tutorial... thanks !!
😀
Whoa, what a informative video. Woukd my engine shuting off when i throttle have anything to do with the trigger? It inly happens when my boat is in water.
As a test, Could you apply a 4 VDC pulse to the trigger wire input for a channel/circuit and see if you read zero ohms resistance (or very close) between the stator input and the output lug of the channel/circuit you are applying the 4VDC trigger to? Shouldn’t the SCR close for that Channel or circuit in order to output the stator input voltage to the coil thus firing the spark plug? I am performing this on a Tohatsu CDI and it changes from infinity to reading Megohms of resistance when I apply the trigger to the CDI. This leads me to believe the SCR is likely damaged in the CDI as I would have expected the SCR to read a short when the trigger is applied, and an open when the trigger is removed. Basically it just switches the input from the stator to the output to a coil, right?
Awesome video! Thank you!
Nice do a cdi coil ignitor coil system video. I can't figure out why I have spark when looping the 2 start button wires at the electric box. Otherwise no spark.
Beautiful explanation
Very well explained - Thank you do much
I can't find anything about the AC voltage output for the 2 yellow wires.
Great video... Need some help though. I have a 85 Mercury 150 black max Ran fine last year when I put it to bed for the winter. Fired it right up this spring but the only problem is the starboard side is not firing. So I did what you said in the video and unhooked the two wires on the rectifier and they fired right up. Replaced the rectifier same problem, so I got another rectifier and again same problem. Don't know what to do now. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you, simple once you know it, :D
What's happens when the rectifier goes bad? I've lost spark in 2 cylinders and I'm wondering if this could be whym
Very informative. thank you
Great video
I have a 1986 6 cylinder 115. It has good spark on all cylinders it starts and idols good all cylinders are firing.
When I start to accelerate it begins to misfire and lacks power.
If I bring the throttle back to slow it runs fine.
Just cleaned the carbs and has new plugs.
I have checked the ohmic value on the red red/white and blue blue/white wires and the blue wire is out of speck 32k ohms.
According to your video the blue works are for the low speed so I’m a bit confused.
Perhaps you could shed some light on this fore me.
Much appreciated
if the blue /red ohms are out of spec the stator is likely bad- a DVA adapter will show you any issues, they usually fail to produce enough juice at certain rpms and it will show a drop right before power loss. The parts are so cheap that I would do the statpr and trigger at the same time - because the trigger wires move every time the throttle moves they tend to wear out more.. the stator is a stationery unit with no moving parts. over time heat+vibration and very low batteries/too much amp draw can also take them out- the insulation can also break down and cause an internal arc killing power. hth-
1986 mercury inline 6 lost spark on cylinder #4 repalced coil still no spark even swapped a firing coil over to the dead cylinder to see just by chance i got a bad coil but still no spark on 4 havent tried swapping wires yet..m what would be your guess more than likely bad trigger or power pack box??? Oh also installed new plugs so isnt that either ..thanks in advance any ideals would be helpeful
I have a couple questions about a 93 Mercury xr6 magnum lll.
Just one thing I wasn’t clear on, if I was to switch any of the trigger wires to the switch pack, that would prove the switch pack is good, or bad, and it would be the trigger that was bad?
Do I have that right?
the pack is just a channel like an amp- so if you have GOOD consistent spark on cyl 1 and not on 3, if u swap pack wires AND coil wires and the problem moved the pack is ok and trigger bad. if the problem didnt move the pack is bad and trigger likely ok. the way to test a pack is to use a working cylinders trigger and coil wires to change between channels. AAlternatively you can use the "bad" cylinder to see if its bad on another pack "channel" - if it suddenly works then the "bad" one might actually be good but running through a bad pack channel.
Thankyou so much for the explanation. I have a 1980ish inline 6 mercury 115 that has been in the family since new. It starts fine and runs ok at low rpm, but will not run smoothly above about 2000rpm and maxes at 3000rpm. I fitted 6 brand new plugs, drove it around for 45 min. Occasionally when running at its max achievable 3000 it would smooth out and momentarily surge towards higher RPMs, then within a second or two drop back to its hobbled 3000rpm. Returned home and pulled the plugs. The even no plugs 2,4,6 attached to the lower switchbox have relatively clean white insulators, whereas 1,3,5 are black and sooty suggesting they are working well on the upper switchbox. Could this simply mean the Red high rpm stator wire to the lower switch box is faulty. Or is more likely to be a fault in the switch box or elsewhere?
Swap the packs but keep all wiring and plug wiring the same. Hit plugs with wire brush to clean them up. Now run motor again, if the problem moved its the pack, if the problem stays on same side its stator. . Or possibly trigger. Honestly I'd just replace the lot.. stator, trigger, 2 packs and coils.. no guess work and it will run great again if compression is good. Watch amazon for used deals.. cdi makes good stuff, sierra coils are good. Do not buy chinese coils, and keep your original parts! Buy a DVA meter, keep a good battery and spray every connection with corrosion atop. Watch u don't crack the ferrite coil magnets too by over tightening..
@@SocalMarineUSA Great suggestion thanks. Will start by swapping the packs as that is simple to do with minimal tools or test equipment.. Thanks again for the help.
Great job!!! Many thanks
isn't it easier to swap in wires at the plugs themselves vs at the CDI outputs?? Great video and thanks for sharing!
It will throw off the timing
I have a question I have a 4 cylinder 45 hp and I have one wire on the trigger is totally losing its out coating and the copper wiring is braking down. All the rest of the wire are in good shape except the one white wire is just about lost all of its outer insulation coating. What will cause that. I can send a picture if needed. Thank you.
hi - its common for the insulation to break down over time. you can snip the end off, slide over heat shrink, and recrimp the eye on . make sure to slide it all the way to make sure it wont ground. honestly replacing the trigger would be a great idea as they wires move every time you move the throttle - but u can try the heat shrink first and see.. esp if its running right.
Yes I know that it is normal for insulation to brake down overtime and I was going to fallow it back to were I can splice it and make a repair by replacing new wire and a new end but I trace it back all the way back up under the flywheel and not able to repair need to replace the trigger switch. I just question if something else is also wrong. Just didn’t want to replace trigger switch and it will happen to the new one then have to order an another switch. I just don’t think just one wire would do this and the other 3 are fine. I tried to add a picture put it would not paste.
Lekker video, thanks bru :P
I have a Murcury 1150 that only goes to one coil. Where would I connect the three wires coming from the distributor?
look online for a wiring diagram - maxrules.com/mercwireindex.php is a great site (unaffilliated)
I have mercury engine 2000 75hp outboard that starts and runs but then when i turn it off it doesnt want to start. i believe this is the problem will be testing it, i am handy but outboard engines are new to me so i like to learn. I will swap the cylinder 2 with 3 in order to see if i have sparks actually will check for sparks with all 3 then to check one by one. the problem is that my box i closed as you mentioned so i am scared to play with wires. :)
i would wiat till it runs again and check each wire individually with a timing light. if they all have a consistent flash at idle, its possibly a faulty ignition of kill circuit- if you are no spark on one or more wires, this swapping test will work. Yes its a little more difficult with closed types - you need to make some crocodile clips and use those to swap wires around-
Nice! it cleared up a lot for me thanks
thanks ! very good informations .
Enjoyed part 1, but cannot find part 2??? I have an old 4 cylinder, 2 stroke mariner of unknown year or horsepower. I have no spark on cylinder 1. Swapped coil pack with number2 but still no spark. Trigger or CDI ???
simplest approach would be to use #2 as u know the pack channel for #2 is good. Take the #1 wires at the pack (trigger and coil) and put them on the pack terminals for #2. If there is spark on the plug now then u know the trigger is producing spark on #1 and its the #1 pack channel thats bad (you can counter test/confirm by putting the good #2 trigger and coil wires on #1 pack terminals - you should also have no spark if the channel is bad). If there is still no spark despite borrowing all the good terminals from #2 that works, then the trigger is bad, because a bad trigger wire will have no spark no matter how many good channels in the pack you put it on - make sense?
@@SocalMarineUSA Thanks, that explains a lot. What voltage should I have on the trigger wires? I can borrow a DVA adaptor for my multimeter if I will need it.
Great video thanks a lot
very good video thanks
EXCEPTIONAL VIDEO
I have a merc 1991 75 3cyl, cranks but no explosions at all...
Took the tarp off the boat for the new season, did all the basics, new fuel, new plugs, it would crank fine the first few times no luck, then it became harder to crank. then all of a sudden i could crank anymore, swap to a new battery, doesn't crank anymore...i can hear the starting solenoid click but no crank. Use the hot wire from battery to starter, sometimes the bendix goes up and contact the flywheel to crank sometimes not, ordered a new starter solenoid...for now i help the bendix up manually to contact at flywheel then hot wire to starter. Can't figure out why it wouldn't fire on all cylinders. I took the stators yellows off from the terminal block, still no sparks, took the blk/ylw killswitch off still no luck, i also unplugged the throttle controls main wire off...still no luck. Can't just be the starter solenoid causing all that? Bad starter?
Can i swap the 0-2000 (blue) with the 2000+ (red)....
a slow crank on these mercs will produce no/weak spark. I suspect the starter - make 100% sure the battery and cables are 200%, not 100%, 200%. No cheap connectors, use solid brass/copper and di grease. Load test the cables at the starter. Do not throw the original starter away! they are VERY good quality and any shop should easily be able to replace the brushes. Grease the bendix shaft and make sure the grease is everywhere, they do like to get stuck.. dont hang on the starter for 30-40 seconds at a time, they arent designed for that, 10-15s max then wait a bit.. you cant fix a no start issue by burning the starter out which I think u did.. or the solenoid too.. get the motor cranking well again and work your way back from the plugs.. if ALL the cylinders are dead after you fix the slow starting issue then perhaps the kill wire is faulty - very common issue on outboards and it can easily destroy the pack.. The triggers are common culprits cos the wiring moves all the time on them..
I’m getting no spark on my 60hp 3cyl mercury nothing all the coil packs not firing.Was thinking that stator went out maybe what do you think? I checked the stop switch and emergency lanyard switch seem fine
u need to check for power coming TO the pack first- it will be blue TO GND AND RED TO GND- www.outboardignition.com/page39.asp just look up your motor hpa nd year and check the specs.
@@SocalMarineUSA Ok I sure will and thank you
i have spark on all cylinders so all channels must be good. im guessing it must be the trigger thats bad or not the right timing?
I guess so, but in rare the spark could still be intermittent which could be a pack channel or a trigger. I had an 80s mercury once that had intermittent spark at 2200 up on one cyl only, it was the trigger. why is yours not running if u have spark across the board? are the carbs clean?
at 17:24 you say "If you see 0.3v of power coming through this pack" but how can ANY power come through the pack if you have already disconnected the black/yellow wire from the pack and connected it to your meter? Since you not actually showing the process, maybe this needs more clarification?
so you have to remove the black/yellow kill wire from the pack and attach the multimeter lead to the WIRE (not the pack), and see if positive voltage is coming down the kill wire when you turn the key to OFF - it should pass ground not positive when turned off (and if so .3v MAX positive - how thats possible im not sure perhaps some units have wiring that ties the ground to positive maybe though a coil or something) but usually you just dont want positive at all or more than 0.3v POSITIVE, thats what the test is for. Faulty wiring or switches cause this and its a pack killer.. esp on johnsons!
Does the motor have to be running in the upper rpm range to test that leg or can I do it just from cranking the engine?
cranking is fine - since alot of the time the motors are hardly running. You can take the spark plugs out to increase the cranking speed and just ground the plug wires out so the energy has somewhere to go.. that makes it spin alot higher and the battery doesnt struggle as much.
@SocalMarineUSA thank you. That's exactly what I did and got mid 200s on the low rpm leg and only mid 20s on the high rpm leg. Wanted to make sure I was testing it correctly before ordering a new stator though. Thank you for the response.
@SocalMarineUSA will after reading the chart in you provided in your other post it says 25-100 for a 85 mercury black max 150. I will reach test tonight to get a more accurate number on the +2000 rpm leg.
Great explanation! If you suspect the trigger for intermittent spark on one cylinder can you swap brown and violet with expectation of no spark moving to other cylinder? I've physically swaped coils so I know they're good.Thanks!
The trigger controls the timing and the brown, violet, etc wires are designtaed for a specific cylinder - as long as you keep that relationship you can swap pack channels / plug wires and green wires as you see fit.. if you just swap the trigger wires the timing will be off and it will run worse so to try run the motor for tests you must swap the trigger wire AND either the corresponding 2 plug wires OR green coil wires (one of these two to redirect the spark to the correct cylinder) - but the intermittent spark should technically move to the cylinder yes- i have an int trigger throw me off for MONTHS way back when i was learning! DVA confirmed a voltage drop right before the miss would show up...
@@SocalMarineUSA ok thanks. I just tested before your reply. I replaced an old corroded trigger and the new CDI one must be bad. 1986 60hp 3 cyl Mercury. Getting intermittent spark on cyl #1. 2 and 3 are great. I swapped trigger leads to switch and had strong spark on #1 and int now on 2. The intermittent spark will spark about 5-7 times when first cranking then stop. It will sometimes come back but not always. Is there any chance the hub magnets on flywheel could be weak or is it a spark signal or no signal situation? Still scratching my head not wanting to replace another trigger.
I keep getting bogged down at high rpms, is it possible the powerpack is bad, It starts and runs well at idle and low rpm, I cant go above 7mph. it is a 1980 jhonson 25hp.
could be fuel related, pump the bulb at the bog, if it picks up its fuel supply or an air leak along the line somewhere or at the clamps. if pumping the primer doesnt make a difference could be an ignition component for sure- do a compression test also
Great exlaination
Great Vid!
My cylinder no. 2 do not run well , there is spark on the spark plug , i change the seal under the fly weel , i try another coil , i check the control box , the compression iss at 122 lbs . Would you have i idea what else could cause that trouble ? thanks
compression is fine - how are you determining its #2? with a timing light? If you are using a timing light and getting intermittent flashes on #2, first swap ONLY the coil with another cylinder that is good and see if the issue moves.. if it still is bad on #2, its not the coil. Move upstream to the pack, try swap the "channels" like i describe here - you need to swap #2's wires with a good cylinder at the PACK.. See the chart here for reference - maxrules.com/oldmercs/Wiring/1966ona/70.jpg - You will swap #1 and #2, so swap brown with white, and swap green and green/white- retest now.. If the problem stays on #2 its the pack, if the problem is now on #3, its the trigger wire for #2, you will need a new trigger.
GREAT video!!!!!
I have a 1996 90hp Mercury with no spark at all start with the Trigger? Thanks
try disconnect the kill wire first and see - you can also disconnect the reg/rectifier too (a faulty reg/rect will take out power from the stator so disconnecting it will eliminate it as a possibility), triggers usually take out a cylinder or 2, everything indicates the stator or kill circuit is faulty.. cdi has some good techniques based on different scenarios, worth a look.
@@SocalMarineUSAI Did try the kill switch and the stator is new So unplug all the wirs to the rectifier? Thanks
@@SocalMarineUSA I was happy CDI that's where the stator came. Might have to give them call back see if they can help ? Tkt
@@keithmoore9593 yes try that. If you track down your motor on cdi the troubleshooting steps and values are there. Good folks at cdi
1986 Merc 75 will not shut off. The kill circuit black with yellow tracer is good. And all grounds good. Could it be my cdi switchbox?
Test manually with a grounded wire .. when idling touch the 2nd from top left with a ground wire.. if it doesn't die yes there's a prob. Make sure you don't have it on the bias terminal (top lef), that's only used for twin pack serups...90 up iirc
Thank you!
Quick question:
What would cause "double firing" on cylinders 5 and 6 on an old mercury v6 200 (2 stroke)?
For example, an inductive tach shows 900 rpm on all spark plug leads except #5 and 6, which shows 6500 rpm at idle of 900 rpm. The timing light looks nearly solid its flashing so fast (on #5 and 6).
usually a blown pack causes cross firing, or a faulty trigger circuit.. what you can do is swap one cyl at a time, easier to keep track. swap 3 and 5 trigger wires going into the pack and the ones going out to coils, and swap the plug wires - cyl 3 is using the channel #5 used and vice versa.. and the timing will be correct. if the problem has moved to #3 now, its the trigger. If the issue stays on #5 its the pack or maybe a coil/wire issue.. if u want to compare coils and plug wires, Revert back to original, then just swap the thin wires TO the coils between #3 and #5, and swap the plug wires.. #3 will now use #5s coil and wires and vice versa.. if the issue moves its not the coil/plug/wires - but sth upstream (pack or trigger, see prev test)
@@fstarockaburns425 Thank you!
Makes sense, will try that.
@@fstarockaburns425 I swapped the trigger and coil leads and the problem stayed on the same cylinder. So, I swapped out the switch boxes from my other motor (which is not having this problem) and tye problem remains on the same two cylinders? I've already changed the trigger, could the stator be the culprit?
@@greauxpete usually a stator will throw multiple/all cylinders on one bank out. I uploaded a video now that i still need to edit - its better if you swap the plug wires and coil wire only first, that will eliminate a faulty coil/wire/plug.. now evert back to original. now swap only the trigger wires at the pack and spark plug wires - if the issue stays on the same cyl the pack channel is bad (ie no matter what trigger and plug wire combo is put on that channel it will misfire basically)..
@@SocalMarineUSA 10-4, I'll try that tommorow
Thanks
Excellent
Great video very educational, I have an old 85 mercury will that cdi work on the 96 mercury?
dont think so - i think the later style ones went to the wires integrated, but check cdi's website and compare the part #s/pics for the different years..
Does it matter which color goes where? Can you switch the blue and red one?
Because, my stator does not have those colors, mine has 2 yellow, 1 green/white and 1 white/green
Not on this unit .. the blue must go to the blue stud, follow your models wiring diagram. The trigger wires may be swapped to test a pack.. but not stator wires.
supper thanks
I unseized a 1987 mariner 60. I got it unseized with brute force by welding a long bar to the flywheel and pushing til it freed. Now that it's unseized the timing seems way off. It has good spark and good compression but backfires flames out the exhaust. I did dismantle the flywheel but never removed the whole flywheel. The timing base remained in place and the flywheel is keyed. I'm thinking there may be something else affecting the cdi or possibly I have the leads around the wrong way (although there is a number on the water jacket by each cylinder and a number next to each coil). I'm stuck at this point. Does anyone have any ideas I can try. Thanks.
Remove carbs and clean them very well and put back together.. don't mix the jets, top carb has a larger size main jet. The trigger wires have 3 colors, violet, brown and white. Each one goes to a certain cylinder. Find a wiring diagram online and follow one wire at a time.. cylinders are 1 2 3 from the top down, but the power pack wires run 132 or something. The power pack is labelled too just follow that... just check the diagrams. . When u clean carbs, put a small filter just before the carbs and replace the fuel line AFTER the filter to trap the old rubber pieces from inside the old lines. Do a compression test.. if u see fuel spitting out carbs put in some boyesen reeds:)
@@fstarockaburns425 thanks a lot for the reply. Carbs are definitely clean. I've spent hours watching these videos and reading but can't find the manual for my motor (it's a 1987 mariner 60 if anyone has a link) I'm now thinking its the firing order. It's definitely the 132 motor (some are 123) There are numbers 1 2 3 next to each spark plug and 3 2 1 on each coil. Running coil 1 to cylinder 1 etc is kicking back and shooting flames. Some people online have said they just run the top coil (3) to top plug (1) etc. I initially tried that before cleaning the carbs, I'd manually add fuel to the cylinders. Didn't seem to work. Can anyone tell me definitely which coil goes to which plug. Thanks.
@@MrAcgolem here you go - this covers ALOT of models, you have to look for the 3 cyl 60hp sections but its all there drive.google.com/file/d/1GI_HK7k2Mk4HFGiQAxD1HnPqkteLSDld/view?usp=sharing
@@fstarockaburns425 seems to only cover 4 and 6 cylinder 90+HP motors. Mine is a 3 cylinder 60hp. Thanks tho.
@@MrAcgolem apologies linked wrong file here you go drive.google.com/file/d/1kgAdONF9WVjsxFd4CjI-R7-WZ6kDWshq/view?usp=drivesdk
Nice
it is a 50 hp . Mercury 1985 .
?
Geees! put the camera down, I'm sea sick.
yep apologies, i make these while on the job often and ive been 4 months behind in work and not a moment to loose.. in the future hopefully my wife can assist in filming-
Love the vid. BUT , all the in and out w/ the camera is making me sea sick, lol.
Thanks