A black servant took him to the kraal to show him off to the villagers, as a curiosity. His parents were distraught at his disappearance but relieved to find him happily playing with the locals.
@@toddwilliams8128 t'is an African mate Why not just google it? And what does that have to do with Tolkien? Tolkien was born in South Africa not in southern Egypt or northern Sudan....
@@toddwilliams8128 sorry dude cant say i have. To be honest i think the only Kevin Smith film i can safely say ive seen is Dogma... And that was a while ago but it was okay. Im guessing that was a reference from chasing amy that "whooshed" over my head....
As a woman, whenever they remake classic movies but give them an all-female cast, it isn’t empowering at all. It makes me feel like I’m being talked down to. They claim to be all about female empowerment but they couldn’t be bothered to come out with *original* female-led content that doesn’t tout a “male vs female” narrative or call attention to itself in that way. The fact that they have crapped on a decades-old fan base in the name of pandering is actually disgusting. They didn’t create something *original* with strong diverse leads that didn’t tout a “POC vs white” narrative or call attention to itself in that way. This crap is demeaning in every way.
Something I can't stand about this whole Amazon thing (in my opinion, as a woman) is that they claim to be making it more "feminist" and "equal". Okay, I can list about 40 women throughout Tolkien's books, most of whom are admirable in at least one or two ways. To me, Lúthien, Arwen, Galadriel, Éowyn, Melian, etc. are more empowering in the books, as they were written by Tolkien, than the way modern film tries to portray them. Strong female characters don't have to fit one mold and I wish these writers would realise that at one point.
Couldn’t agree more. Also, female characters also don’t have to call attention to the fact that they are strong. They just are. They do their thing and people think they’re awesome for it. “And any man who must say “I am king”’ is no true king at all.”
@@nataliedarley3943 that was what made Ripley and Sarah Connor so badass. They just did the thing for all they were worth. Ripley was doing her job and Sarah was learning to protect her son.
@@victorianmariner Yessss! I feel like the movies took away from the female characters in the book a bit by "fleshing them out" and creating romances that didn't exist when they really didn't need fleshing out or extra romantic plotlines. One of the most iconic lines (at least to me) is "but no man am I. You look apon a woman". In the books I was never bothered that all the fellowship were men because they're just good characters, and the women are good (and brave) characters too. And they didn't all need to be badass to be role models
@@FantasticExplorers These are Attacks on Europeans , well funded and planned and implimented across the media , movies , education . You and your European Traditions , Heros etc are the real Target . As a European you must have nothing , unless it's the approved version of reality . If they allow you to have strong Hero's and Myths etc , your children may grow up to be confident , have strength and even a love their Traditions and people . It's plainly obvious this is all planned and well funded , so stand Men and Women of Europa , you have the blood of real Hero's and Warriors flowing tru you ( Viking , Roman , Spartan , Slave , Celt , Germaic etc )
There’s actually a quote I remember from Penn and Teller bullshit, it was from Dennis Prager. “You haft to have gone to college to say something that stupid”. I use that quote more times then I care to admit lol
I’m a Malay Muslim woman and I have fallen in love with Lord of the Rings since I was 11 years old and I have read the books and The Silmarillion. I LOVE the fact that it is inspired by English, Scottish, Irish and Celtic mythology. I don’t need to see Malay people in the movies or show in order to feel represented. I love these characters because they’re so well written and are just such good people with admirable qualities. If I wanted a Malay mythological movie or show I’d expect it to come out of my own country.
Imagine how annoying it is, to be black and a genuine fan of these old, beloved franchises. Investing deeply into the lore, the stories, the characters for years. Only for some elite, middle class arrogant types to cancel it in the name of protecting you. How insulting is that?
To be honest I don't see a problem with a whole world or the whole cast being white or one particular ethnic group or even if they're all the same gender, even male. I'm saying this as a feminist progressive, and please don't mix us up with the sjws. I have no problem relating to stories where all the characters are male, different racial or ethnic background than me, etc. In fact, acknowledging this I feel like helps us realize that race is not important for character relatability, nor is gender or background. The point of destroying racism and sexism is to prove that we are all the same, and the idea that we are all different is old-fashioned and backwards. I'm really ashamed of the current liberal perspectives in america, because it's basically doing what liberals fought originally.
, the plot seems to actually talk about racism and defensiveness on its own, it's not automatically what the premises by having a bunch of white characters, like a lot of people seem to claim
@@otakumangastudios3617 I understand your point, and I find it best not to lump people into categories. There are different kinds of feminists with different beliefs and reasons why they believe what they do. Goes without saying but I find alot of people making this mistake alot. The problem I have with what you just said, is this hyper-focus on race, origin, gender. This is what alot of people have a problem with. I feel alot of people do not need a character to be like them, or even to relate to that character in any way in order to enjoy a story. You clearly like anime. Most anime features japanese characters, some of them absolutely bizarre to the point where nobody can relate to them. Does that make the story any less entertaining? I don't think it does tbh. I think this is why people who identity as a feminist end up annoying some folk. This fixation on race, gender, etc- hyper politicises forms of entertainment that most people (of all backgrounds) want to use for escapism after a hard day of work. I do 100% understand the point you're trying to make though. Perhaps you feel differently and feel you do need to relate to a character. This is a subjective opinion, and it's an interesting perspective I've not heard of before so thank you for that.
@@otakumangastudios3617 What does a feminist progressive believe? I ask this because whenever I've listened to someone who calls themselves a feminist but express moderate views, their stated beliefs tend to be more accurately defined as egalitarian, and most people who openly call themselves progressives also tend to believe that they are the only ones who know the path and the only ones who get to choose which way is forward. What I mean is that the word progressive doesn't necessarily designate a good thing. Progression just means something is moving forward towards an end or a goal, but those who use the word "progressive" as part of their rallying cry usually paint it to the public as *"if it has the word progressive in it, it means it is automatically something good"* , without further elaborating on their intentions. I mean, for example; Hitler's rise in Germany progressed from a small following to complete rule, and eventually progressed futher into invading and conquering other territories. As I said, I'm only asking because I want to know, and it is sadly way to common that someone calling themselves even one of those words are either mistaken or their stated distinctiveness just ends up being the same with a different coat of paint...
J.R.R. Tolkien may have been one of the most brilliant men who ever lived. He was deeply religious (Christian) he was welcoming and encouraging (The Inklings look it up) and he made people and students around him better. He INVENTED languages for LOTR that did not exist before him, entire lexicons invented for his work. He CREATED an entire genre of fiction, he inspired art, movies, books...universes and generated more creativity than nearly any other fiction writer before or since. WORLDS came from this man's scholarship and humanity! This man NEVER met an enemy just friends he had not met yet, NEVER showed any signs of racist thought or attitude in his ENTIRE breadth of work, which we have a lot of. NOT...ONE...SHRED!!! In other words. This man was a gentle intellectual giant who enriched our modern world in ways we can't even conceive of, he was a devout quiet doddering collegian who never let on that he had a UNIVERSE in his brain which he must have understood was going to be a game changer but he still supported lesser works with equal enthusiasm, ever hear of Narnia? This was a incredible human being in every conceivable way. For you, who have SUFFERED NOTHING...have INVENTED NOTHING...and UNDERSTAND NOTHING...to throw shade at such a man...is like an ant tossing pebbles at a giants ankle because you think he is casting too much shadow. Get his name out ya mouth if you are not thanking him for leaving his world behind to enrich yours, you racist MORON! Nuff said...
I came to applause you!! I also want to say thanks to Tolkien, his stories and songs (in the Hobbit) are my three year old sons favorite bed time stories.
Probably because the elves are fare more beautifull. At least by human standards. I mean seriously. In Lord of the Rings female dwarfs have beards. I personally would love being a (male) dwarf. But I don't consider female dwarfs attractive. Even those without beards in other fantasy worlds. I just like women tall and feminine. Which female dwarfs are neither.
@@jochendeclercq5648 Nothing wrong with having a beard. I have on myself. Almost as proud of it as a dwarf. But men having a bigger facial hair grow than woman. Beards have become a symbol of manliness. So a woman with beard is just to manly for most man.
I’m a black woman, I love Tolkien stories. How do orcs represent black people? The orcs in the film were evil monsters. I thought ors were elves that turned evil. To me Tolkien LOTR was about conquering the evil that lives within ourselves. She is projecting her racist experiences on the Tolkien stories. If she wants black mythological stories. She can read Anansi stories, West African folk tales.
I'm agree with you. Orc create from elves with somekind darkmagic, that what Saruman do when he create the army. so its not make sense to say orcs represent black people.
The thing about a good story is it doesn't matter where it comes from as long as the content is good. You like LotR. My Asian best friend loves French culture. I'm the whitest white person I've ever seen and I love Native American myths. It's about the content, not the point of origin, and more people need to realise that.
you are correct! Orcs were originally elves that were taken by Melkor (or other known as Morgoth) who tortured and twisted them into those monsters we know now.
Always wondered why these representation fanatics don't start making African legends and fairy tales into movies and shows. African cultures have so much to offer and it would be real representation to bring these into cinemas.
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.” - Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022) "There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves." - Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
You misunderstand. Amazon have stated they want their show to represent the real world, hence this guy's point. There are no elves or drawves in the real world. Also, news flash. The shire, isengard, Mordor et Al are all fictional. Let's change them to New York, Florida and California
As a caucasian, I want to say this. When there's an epic High fantasy based on african, asian, south american or oceanian folklore, I am excited to read it, I revel in the beauty of different culture, and I do NOT expect anything about those stories to come from caucasian background. I never considered that to be racist. But based on Christina's logic, it apparently is. ☹️
No it’s not because if it’s against whites it can’t be racist right? 🙃 It only goes one way. You inject white into African mythology you’re crucified. You inject black into European mythology you’d better accept it or you’re a racist POS
Everyone is just jealous of white people let’s be honest here. Let’s call it for what it really is. They’re mad that they can’t hate them, everyone loves white people and their culture. That’s why all the refugees want to go to Europe or the U.S. Better quality of life, better system, education etc.
Imagine the reaction if there was a movement drawing attention to how few white Wakandans there are in Black Panther and demanding their inclusion. Just fucking imagine.
I will explain to you as someone who has grown up in a liberal environment where many of those people ended up sjws, basically, the idea is that white people have been overrated for their relatability, and so having a bunch of people who are not white in a film is innovative, but not if there's exclusively white people casted. It's based off of basically the long history of white supremacy in america, that it's still affecting us to this day that if we see something that is predominantly white cast and white culture lore, then it's automatically seen as racist because it's seen through the guise of what supremacy, which really goes to show how much white supremacy is still affecting us to this day. What's supremacy seems to be strong as not just in the far right, but in the far left, and this is how it represents itself. Yes, it's bigoted, but they don't see it that way. That's why also they tend to be cynical towards white people and feel like it's okay to critique them, and make them out as the big racists, because again, we are still so affected by eurocentricism and white supremacy in this country, that again, the automatic assumption is that if there's majority White characters or focus on european-based fantasy and or lore, then it's automatically racist. The reason why most people around the world don't think this way, is because it does not have the same history about racism as America does. It does not have the same history of continuous divisiveness due to the ideation of race, basically kind of sort of similar to the Nazis perspective race, has just infiltrated American so much, that they see everyone as what their appearance is, and see it as an identifying feature of that person's humanity, while in most other countries, people don't think like that, and I feel like a great example of this is, I have a tendency of drawing my manga characters to look recognizably Japanese to the American eye, which I did not really fully realize at that time. In case you didn't know, most anime/manga characters that are Japanese actually do look japanese, but the reason why they look white to sjws, is because it's a eurocentric country, and it's art, so people will see it from whatever perspective they have. It's an interesting thing to think about when considering sociology and psychology, that how we perceive an appearance is really what dictates that appearance and what it means to us and what it is and what our brain recognizes it as, and again, it shows the eurocentricism of the so-called social justice warriors who apparently are not a fleck of racist in them are actually the racist ones, because they're choosing to look at these characters only from their very eurocentric Western perspective.
@@otakumangastudios3617 The Lord of the Rings and other related works were meant to give the British people a mythology of their own. Thus none of the core characters are non-white for this reason. Thus any race-swapping is actually racist. In Tolkien's day, Britain saw itself as they were in the 19th century - particularly the pre-Industrial Revolution Era. Britain of the Pre-Industrial Era was NOT multi-cultural nation.
@@nicholaslin1630 it seems you have missed my point. My point was, in other words, there's nothing at all racist with having all the characters be white, it's based off of lore from a predominantly white area, there's no need to race swap any of the characters. Not to mention, race is minimally important to the characters, except for when we're talking about imaginary ones such as elves and halflings. The fact they are white doesn't really matter, the story and the characters themselves are what matter. Perhaps what I mentioned before was confusing, that I was explaining I had a conversation with somebody on the internet from asia, and I was sharing a drawing with him of an anime character that I wanted to look accurately Japanese from all perspectives, and he was seriously dumbfounded by the question, and didn't know how to answer besides telling me that the appearance really doesn't matter, that if I want the character to be japanese, I should write the character to be Japanese and what the character looks like doesn't really matter. To me, this is a sign that the rest of the world does not think about race nearly as much as the West does, reinforcing the idea to me that it's actually more racist to be leaving that it's racist to not include other races within a story, because it's the characters that matter. There's nothing wrong with making their ethnicity a certain thing, and there's nothing wrong with portraying them as different races, but to be upset because they are not what you want them to be, is a little screwed in the head.
@@otakumangastudios3617 And what I am saying is that the Lord of the Rings and associated works by Tolkien were written exclusively for white people with a multi-generation connection with Britain. It was not written originally for non-white people in mind. Thus the characters who are shown to be white are an important part of their characterization. And one's understanding of them and their motivations.
@@nicholaslin1630 *Tolkien also stated that he ultimately failed at creating an English mythology (Christopher agreed with this too), hence why he appropriately stated that Middle-earth was based on Northwestern Europe, and also he stated he based Rhun and Harad on Asia and Africa, respectively ~ The primary story takes place in Eriador (West), however, during the Second Age of Endor there are sub-plots in other regions, for instance: the Druedain who travelled with the Edain to Numenor (as a reward for fighting against Morgoth); the foundation of Numenor's greatest settlement pre-Gondor: Umbar in Far-Harad; those whom the Blue Wizards encounter in Rhun and Harad (as sent by Manwe and Orome); the population of Rhun and Harad in general; Khamul the Easterling when he's given one of the Nine Rings and eventually turns into a Nazgul; Numenorean deforestation and expansionism post Aldarion's odyssey; as well as the offspring of the Numenorean bloodlines who mated with the women of Harad post-Downfall ~*
I know, its like we used to be able to joke around and have fun, but now it is like the helms deep sequence, all saying stuff like "hold the lines!" because we know that if we allow them to break through that the evil will corrupt everyone
"The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus means that one day everything sad will come untrue." -J.R.R. Tolkien Tolkien, intimately knew the source of all good, even the incredibly brilliant lore he crafted in The Hobbit and LOTR. Tolkien was one of the most beautiful Catholics I know. He helped me drop my ranty atheism and become a Traditional Latin Mass Catholic, as he was. Sola Deo Gloria Deus Vult
@@marcwright4790 Very insightful and so necessary; your last sentence should be posted as a warning on every Tolkien story website. (look what the inheritors of Walt Disney did to the very Christian and moral fairy-tales of Europe. They were made into tools of the devil)
I am not even a Tolkien fan, but I really feel bad for the fans they they have to deal with this....like with every other part of geek culture. I like the "Bro" and "Imposter" stereotypes, but I will always prefer the word "poser".
@@theunpopulist6801 At first I thought you were being a tightwad basically saying "HA SILLY AMERICANS! TAKING "U"s out of words!", but no you are actually correct. Poser is different from Poseur. Learned something new.
Yeah the entirety of nerd culture has essentially been gutted and then worn like a skin suit by SJW fake fans who want to control and dominate. They have been doing it with subcultures for awhile now but with their attempt to go after sports we might finally see their power break. But that's me being overly hopeful and melodramatic.
I long ago learn that when progressive people say things like "Coded", "Dog Whistle", or whatever new term progressive people accused normal people's of it because they actually think like that, do that themselves, and are projecting it onto other.
I mean, it is a real thing. Races in some stories are purposefully coded as certain real world races. The problem is people who find it where it wasn't intended.
@@Underworlddream there are quite a few stories, pretty much all I know are by progressives (the kinds of media where this is most common doesn't interest me), but most stories that feature animals have all characters coded as something, like pig farm and zootopia Some do it well, some do it horribly, pattern seems to be that the subtlest the least the chance it'll turn out to be bad, but it might be that some are so bad the intent doesn't even cross your mind. Like zootopia, where because predators, are predators, and prey are completely different from them, for obvious reasons I didn't correlate the difference between that and different races
"Black people exist" Wow, thank you for this massive piece of wisdom. I truly had absolutely no idea that black people exist, you've truly opened my eyes.
@@LoneSilverW0lf i mean, black people are like less than 1% of my country's population, so... Would it be THAT weird if I didn't know they existed if I've never seen one?
I'm Filipino and I am so in love with Lord of the Rings and have read the trilogy several times. I loved its Northern Europe roots and subtle anti-racism as much as I loved the diversity and representation of The Expanse as logical offshoots of migrating mankind. Oh my God I'm a brown white supremacist!
isn't that normal in philippines? Brown white supremacist where people forget they root and trying to be as western as possible? Hahha just kidding tho. I'm indonesian and I admit we're trying to be as arab as possible.
@@GabrielDipo Ha ha ha touche. A lot of us may be guilty of being 'little brown brothers' but to characterize all who defend tolkien as racist mysoginist white supremacists no matter what race they belong to is the point here. "I want Tolkien to be gay, and if you disagree, you're a racist sexist mysogyniist white supremacist!"
I was bullied by girls like this in school for being into D&D and being weird. I was big enough then to slap other guys around so I would much prefer a guy physically bullying me than this Mean Girls hipster culture.
Yup same, get treated like shit for decades by these people but when it becomes trendy we have to accept them coming in and bullying us again while they monetize it, destroy it and moving on to the next thing. I dont think so.
Exactly! When I was in school girls didn't play video games and called me a geek because I was outspoken about how much I loved them. I remember them calling PlayStation "Nintendo", that's how little they cared.
You can always sit on them and draw on their face with markers. At least that was basically how I dealt with mean girls. They can be very nasty, especially when they appear in a herd. But just pick the loudest one for your art project. They stop their bullying immediately with a few pee pees and wee wees on their face that won't wash off. I usually got expelled too, but it was worth it.
@@thelonespacemarine5211 "This last I say to you, thrall Morgoth," said Hurin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you."
@@feanorian21maglor38 I heard maybe it was also the fact that the eagles in LOTR are basically Demi Gods. They were created by Manwë Súlimo the King of the Winds, and were thus extremely powerful. Someone had the reasoning that beings with such power would be susceptible to the rings power, if it were to be delivered by them.
@@ironwraith852 Exactly. The Eagles are representative of divine intervention - and there had long been division and separation between the Valar and the children of Illuvatar due to events in the Simillirilion.
If somebody wrote a masterpiece based on African mythology, I wouldn't go and ask him to shoehorn in a bunch of white characters so I could feel more "represented". The problem with these people is that instead of going out and creating something of their own, they'd rather try to alter something that already exists, in order for it to fit their ideology.
This is the elephant in the room, tbh. Most of these POC / minority 'fans' of various fantasy, sci-fi, and comic-book fandoms seem to have a compulsion for attempting to remould / reconfigure the narrative in White-majority / European-identity fandoms to be more reflective of 'diversity'. When in actuality, if they really called about representation, they would focus on creating their own fandoms and communities that work to celebrate their own mythology, folktales, and ethnic identity / culture. I recognise that European folklore and mythology is more readily available and fleshed out, but I don't really think that's an excuse tbh. Like, if you're a black person who is pissed about "Muh no black Elves in Lotr" then why not create some sort of mythological story based around ancient Egyptian culture or the Nubian Kingdoms or whatever? To me, if I were a black person, I wouldn't really feel comfortable - in fact I'd feel quite embarrassed - trying to insert my primarily African identity into a narrative (LoTR) that is literally a representation / allegory for traditional North-European identity, folklore and mythology. Tolkien was fluent in Icelandic, and was somewhat envious of the fact that the Nordic peoples had a clearly defined, deeply-rooted mythology, such as that found in the Poetic Edda, which his home-nation of England lacked. As such, he set about creating a self-contained 'mythology' to represent England and the English (obviously recognising England's and the English's historic and ethnic ties to Celtic, Scandinavian and Germanic culture). This can even be seen in his fully-fleshed out languages with Sindarin taking inspiration from Gaelic Welsh, and Quenya drawing similarities to Finnish and Latin. My point is, LoTR, The Silmarillion, Middle Earth, etc, quite literally wasn't intended with the relatability to black people or 'POC' - on a cultural level - in mind. Obviously anybody of any ethnicity or background can enjoy Tolkien's stories and the fantasy world, and they do. But to say that, as a black person, you don't feel 'represented' in LoTR, is quite accurate, but a non-issue, IMO. I mean, of course you're not going to feel represented, in terms of your identity. And more importantly, why *should* you? Why does something that is symbolic of, and pays homage to, medieval and pre-medieval Northern-European mythology, folklore, people and culture need to make you feel 'represented' (from an identity / ethnic / cultural perspective), unless you share some sort of connection to that people or culture. I love Greek Mythology, for example, but I don't particularly relate to it on an 'identity' level, because I'm not Greek. I've never even been to Greece. So I doubt I feel the same way about Greek Mythology as a native Greek might do. And that's fine! People are - and should be, without any finger-wagging from SJWs - allowed to have stories, artworks and fandoms that are specifically catering to THEIR identities / representations. Not every single thing needs to be multiculturally representative that takes into account every single shade, sexuality gender-expression, body-type and political orientation. Sure, have fandoms that are diversified like that, but why does this have to be the case for all things? It doesn't.
I would kill for a movie centered around North and West African culture. So much cool history happened there with the Egyptians, Sudanic Empires, and Carthage to name a few. That'd be the perfect backdrop for some GoT inspired fantasy.
@@OlympusPublicAffairs true, there is tons of rich history and mythology just waiting to be tapped into. Instead of trying to awkwardly adapt existing projects to be diverse they should explore this more. It would also have the added gem of being original which is sorely lacking these days
Isn't there something innately narcissistic about needing fiction to reflect aspects of yourself, specifically your appearance, in order to enjoy or relate to it? The same goes for the need to draw parallels between reality and fiction. I've seen people make the argument -- for more than one fantasy IP -- that negative connotations attached to the word 'dark' are racist. As if 'light and dark' carries an innate reference to skin colour irrespective of context.
And thats a good point, "light and dark" doesn't equate to skin color or racism at all. If an orc id depicted as dark grey, is is supposed to be "black coded" opposed to one that was pale? Its such stupid reasoning
Wait, if that true, why isn’t it equally narcissistic to demand that everyone be white to reflect a majority white audience. Can THEY not see themselves in character unless they’re white? Seems like some covert white supremacy to me.
@@actaeondiomedes4270 Those you speak of who demand that for those reasons is it’s own issue. I think fantasy pre existing universes should remain as a writer intends. If the writer didn’t include enough diversity in its lore than find a new story to enjoy.
What's racist is taking a HUGE series of works about Middle Earth in which the color of elves' skins is never mentioned and calling it "WOKE" if the show doesn't make them all white. Meanwhile you never mentioned all the bigger flaws in Peter Jackson's trilogy, e.g. that Aragorn is racially unable to grow a beard, or that far more characters are supposed to have raven hair. Even if we want to pretend that the characters should all look like the cultural tropes Tolkien was reading a lot when he invented them--and we should NOT pretend this--then all the dwarves in all the adaptations should have looked like dark-skinned Semitic peoples--so, like Syrian Jews. Never let me hear you call this author "racist" until I see YOUR old essays about how racist the white dwarves were in the horrendous Hobbit trilogy. Didn't write any? No? Then shut up, you hypocritical gaslighting racist.
@@d.m.collins1501 elves skin is never mentioned? He literally says they have the fairest skin. I stopped reading at that point because you clearly haven't picked up a book and you're just making stuff up to suit your own narrative
@@d.m.collins1501 What is even worse is lying to people to try and justify your viewpoint. From Tolkiens published works "They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.". Also, Tolkien based the Elves on Nordic mythology and was writing a mythology to replace the one that was lost to Britain. So yes, he said and thought that Elves were white.
@@d.m.collins1501 dear mr idiot, "elf" in germanic languages means "white beeing" Tolkien as a linguist knew about this and thats how they are described in the actual basis which Tolkien drew from for his works. Please take your bad faith argument and search for another popular fandom which you can attach yourself to, so you can make up your lack of character, Thank you.
Tolkien was a preserving history, a mythology, and a linguistic structure that was on the verge of vanishing. These idiots are cluesless because they're too shallow to to see how deep the water is. I'm not the biggest fan but ever since I read the Lord of the Rings series as a child, I've always had respect for the immensity of his work. P.S. good to see this back up.
Well he was. But he was even more into inventing expanding and creating new myths. We are talking about a man that came up with the elves to fit the languish he had created in his head just for fun... It takes a special kind of madness to be like that, in a good way.
@@larsgadell5016 I agree. There is an interesting story way back where someone said the ring of power was like the atom bomb. And Tolkien was Furious. Because his Works had nothing to do with our petty politics. I haven't researched the story but it sounds like him.
@@theobstinategentleman4094 He hated allegory with a passion. He conceded his own beliefs and experiences bled into it but he created nothing to represent any one real thing.
All by design sadly and they are just getting started. Star wars is going to be the only place to go now that Disney was forced to get rid of the one who purposely screwed it all up so badly and cost the share holders such in losses.
those ppl have deep mental issues, like they need to attack or create drama to stay in a constant victim mentality, this is sad bcuz its abt entertainment the total opposite from drama and an escape from it...those ppl jsut cant be happy especially seeing others being happy.
Amazon have missed a real trick, they could have pleased everyone if only they had taken the time and effort to build upon the world Tolkien created. As you pointed out in the video there is a whole area to the south & East that wasn't ever fleshed out by Tolkien, stories waiting to be told, of races of men barely mentioned. As a fan I would love to hear more of how these races developed, their histories. We know two wizards, the blue wizards travelled to these lands to foster rebellion against Sauron's forces. This is where Amazon should have taken their story.
An excellent suggestion! Something that can take on a life of its own w/o "fandom" crying like children, because there is so little known/told about these places. Let your imagination go.
@@v.e.7236 You're literally just talking about making something original. Why do we have to expand on a dead man's fantasy world and why aren't people making compelling world's of their own more often? I mean the kind of world's equal to the works of Fantasy like Tolkien's? I think we've let our culture's revitalizing force get squashed by the need for power in politics. You can see this with how our best musicians are often homeless or isolated. While the most successful movies in history are always squashing political garbage that's meant to dishearten and demotivate and agitate political opposition. Artists who are lucky enough to go to school are told ALL art's political. I think this honestly has more to do with the US if anything. But the secular world tends to confuse their military leaders with spiritual leaders. So people who win elections become ideologues in order to become elected. So when artists are told all art's political they're talking about this relationship. But real art is a work of Love. And Love can be more powerful than the Oval office. It inspired the legends and myths and stories we all grew up loving. Peter Pan for example was created for the orphans the writer visited. My favorite books are the Redwall series, which are fantasy books that were written for blind children. Lord of the Rings was written for the English people in general. Tolkien wanted to transmute the horror's of his experience in WW1 and the ever expanding industrial world into a story that could help people remember the heart of the English culture (that was the Shire) the orcs were industrializers who were on the opposite end of Middle Earth from the Shire. Tolkien probably thought the industrializers were more orcish than anyone. WW1 had been an industrialized war. He loved nature too. He based Treebeard off of his friend CS Lewis. There's a million other examples. The Great Michelangelo sculped David as his vision for the most ideal man. Artists are told this was because he was gay. They reduce Michelangelo's genius to that of a lustful thought. In Truth what he really did was attempt to bring out the highest aspects of man, He could have been gay, but what he was doing was sculping a vision of his Love towards his peers. He was telling men everywhere that this is what you could become. He was telling people that men had a divine essence and weren't just dogs in heat. Nowadays we only hear about how evil arrogant and evil men are. How oppressive they've been and how brutish they've been. So you can't have a gay man love men in other ways save the most obvious way that distinguishes them. It's truly insulting I think and these arrogant rats don't care about that because they receive likes on Facebook. All great works are to love people, not lecture them or shame them. Yet here I am. Haha Sorry for the rant. On a brighter note, I think a day is coming we see real art be made.
@@anothercat1300 Wow another redwall fan, I don't come across many people who have heard of Redwall, let alone fans, I loved the series when I was a child and they had a huge influence on the person I am today. I didn't know that they were written for blind children though, to be honest I don't know much about Brian Jacques, my bookshelf is half full of his works though :)
i came here to say this reguarding the amazon series. i dont understand why they would randomly sprinkle in black or other race characters where there arent any. it doesnt make sense and feels super lazy. id like to have seen how represntations of african or other cultures manifested in middle earth interact with the rest of the world
My mother raised me on movies like LOTR and I’ve encountered actual racism. Not once did I nor have I ever looked at an orc, demon, etc. and thought it was supposed to be a representation of me. She and people like her need serious help.
@@Alex-bk8tn I aware, but some people will completely disregard that and go straight to the appearance trying to make it out to be something that it’s not.
Those orcs seems to be hot mess, some people in the shards of the USSR legit think that LOTR is a metaphor for WW2 with USSR being the Orcs, Nazi Germany - Saruman and his gang and British being idk elves? hobbits? not sure. And those people are not a fake fans, they read the books, watched the movies, made cosplay and linguistic studies based on them and still genuinely believe this bullshit.
Had a conversation with someone the other day who said he was the biggest star wars fan, but hated all the star wars movies George Lucas had written or directed because he was terrible at writing and directing but loves the new sequels and insists I was a toxic fan. Im starting to suspect he was indeed not the biggest star wars fan
@Retro Games The prequel trilogy at least least to the Clone Wars series, arguably some of the best writing in StarWars. The Sequel trilogy is being put in a place where it can be low-key erased from cinematic canon. What does that tell you?
Here’s how you correct that person. Tell them that what they mean to say is “I am the biggest *Disney* Star Wars fan” because Disney Star Wars is not Star Wars. There’s a huge difference. Only certain parts like the ones created by Dave Filoni are even remotely Star Wars.
That guys not a fan, he's just some fool who jumped on the Disney SW bandwagon Episodes 1-6 to me are masterpieces and I'm forever glad for the world that George Lucas created
I’ve become fascinated over the last few years over the idea that a character has to look like you in order for you to identify with them. Growing up the only time I saw Hispanic people on TV was when I watched Walker Texas Ranger and America’s Most Wanted. Somehow my fragile ego was able to survive. Possibly because while characters didn’t look like me I could understand their motivations and flaws, and could see aspects of my personality in theirs. Just a thought.
Yeah that’s a good thought. Most people go through more struggles or life choices than racism and I think with some characters you can relate well even if they have a different skin color or ethnicity
This is similar to feminists getting in a twist over the small number of female characters in the books, which as a young girl reading the books never once occurred to me to be an issue. Tolkien chose quality over quantity with his female characters, and made all the members of the fellowship so humanly relatable in the most basic ways that race and sex didn't matter. I'm not an elf but I can still relate to legolas, I'm not a man but I can still relate to Aragorn, if a story and characters are good (as in the case of the LOTR) you should be able to enjoy and relate to the story regardless of personal identity. Long story short, identity politics ruin stories and make you and everyone you inflict them on miserable.
Yep, Eowyn was great. I feel like they actually did a disservice to the character in the Jackson films by making everyone just kind of shrug and nod that she was along, making allowances and the like. In the books she had to hide that she was a woman and be just as hard as the men to pull it off, wearing armor just like them... A real 'Mulan'-like situation, if you will. I won't say that the Jackson film is 'bad' on this front, I will say it is less powerful.
I remember my biggest issue with the LOTR trilogy was the portrayal of the Gondorian soldiers and how they were made to simply be cannon fodder for the orcs. I fear in the near future, I'm gonna miss those days.
@@lordfrostwind3151 gotta be honest here. I'm not a Tolkien fan. I have never read any of the books. My only connection to the Tolkien lore are the movies. But I didn't need to read the books to be annoyed at how weak the Gondorian army was portrayed as. It was pathetic. And when I found out how much they kicked ass in the books, my disappointment only increased. My solution for this isn't to make Gondor soldiers invincible or anything. Just turn them into soldiers that can put up against the orcs instead of making them the Stormtroopers of the LOTR franchise.
The problem is that the Gondorians were mostly badass in "off page" moments. The ground their army took, and held, was primarily referenced rather than seen. The vast majority of their direct action seen in the books was during the losing battles towards the end of the Ring War. That doesn't make them terrible, rather it shows the enemy's terrible power.
Actually thoughts on this subject have changed. Nearly all European languages are now considered Indo.european, as in Aryan. Sanskrit and Latin are sister languages. Ironically almost everyone is of Aryan descent.
@@Impericalevidence wasn't it spelled different or something? Anyway, the Nazi Aryan thing was about descending from the noble norse or some crap, and had nothing to do with the real group that was coincidentally called that as well.
I'll say it again: Dr.King said to judge the content of character, not skin color. I do not need Black skin Aragorn to think Aragorn was badass, I don't need brown skin Samwise to see how bold and a true friend he was. And there was dang sure nothing about the Orcs that identified with me as a black man to make me think they are me.
Exactly. That was almost hurtful to br as a black male. Why are we being compared to orcs? There are literally black people in lore. They just don't play a huge role in the story is all
@@e.m.p.3394 probably because they lived somewhere else on the planet as the books were Tolkein's response to the lack of Anglo-Saxon Mythology and therefore take place in (an alternate) ANCIENT CELTIC EUROPE.
@@ABurntMuffin I know right! And honestly I see nothing wrong with that. Lotr and the other pieces of lore took place in a "white" dominated part of the planet. What's wrong with that?
As someone else said somewhere else in the coments it’s really telling that this lady and people like her complain about bigots and negative stereotypes and yet she herself is the one comparing herself to orcs. It’s so bizarre.
@ajnapalm: Nailed it. I have identified with men and women of all ages and ethnicities because of what they're going through, what they're feeling etc., not because of their physical similarity to me :p
Tolkien served as a codebreaker in WW2. He literally helped in the literal fight against racists. His two sons picked up rifles and fought the Nazis. That some pale elbowy post modernist coward hiding behind a keyboard could accuse such a man of racism speaks volumes.
Well, yes and no. "In the run-up to the Second World War, Tolkien was earmarked as a codebreaker. In January 1939, he was asked to serve in the cryptographic department of the Foreign Office in the event of national emergency. Beginning on 27 March, he took an instructional course at the London HQ of the Government Code and Cypher School. He was informed in October that his services would not be required"
Wow. Good point. This video discusses a major interpretation of Lord of the Rings. Another major interpretation compares the story to WWII. Tolkien himself was irked by this. So he explained that was a case of application as opposed to allegory. In this application, Sauron and his forces are like the Nazis while the hobbits, men, elves and dwarves are like the Allied Forces. Even the word fellowship is similar in meaning to an alliance. Since the fellowship is obviously depicted as the good guys, it makes the story seem like pro Allied Forces. So it makes sense that Tolkien's sons fought in WWII. I never knew about the contributions the Tolkien family made in WWII. That is so cool. I knew J. R. R. Tolkien fought in WWI, and that influenced his depiction of war in his books. I guess WWII makes him the Bilbo in Lord of the Rings. He is an older veteran of the previous generation, and he fought in an earlier war.
Also the man fought in WW1. In the trenches of the horrible war, he wrote the first lines of The Hobbit, another story that shows how companionship and friendship can be built between different races of inhabitants of MiddleEarth. Though Tolkien vehemently always said that there was no allegory to be found in hos work, but of course the experiences of his life influenced him. When you look at the very core of his stories, it is about fighting evil, both externally and internally, and realize that you can't necessarily do everything alone, that you are stronger when united. How's that racist?
Don't get me wrong: I don't know if Tolkien was a racist or not. I am not saying he was. But him serving in the defence of his country against German aggression isn't any proof for him not being racist. You can be a racist UK nationalist and fight the Nazis because you don't want your country to be occupied by a foreign force. You might just do it because you're a conscript and not because of any particular worldview you have. You might just be a racist but not agree with the rest of national-socialism. You might be a racist but not as radical as the nazis. You might just like being a soldier. There were surely many racists in the british military at the time as basically any man (and some women) of approppriate age in the UK were part of the military at the time. By your logic, racism among uk men stopped to be a thing when and because most men joined the military. That makes no sense.
As a gay man I can say there is no reference to any character being gay. I don’t want gay representation in this show because Tolkien does not present it in his work. I am still able to love Tolkien’s work and relate to the characters.
I kind of appreciate that, though. Not specifically gayness, but that sexuality as a whole is mostly left out. I feel like we live in a culture that can’t tell a good story so they just inject sex into everything for attention. If you have a good enough story, who is sleeping with who is not the most important part of it.
My best friend in high school used to say he had never suffered racism in his life. Some college students tried to convince him otherwise and to show him that "racism is everywhere". It didn't even last a week, the guy called me pissed off and said that all this "micro aggression" paranoia made him fall into an anxiety spiral. From that point on, he decided to abandon all that stupid ideology and focus on bettering himself. He got a girlfriend and started his own business, all working out for him so far.
Your friend used his smarts and broke out from the attack ( Yes it's a real attack , well funded and planned and implimented across the media , movies , education etc ) Do not forget , you and your European Traditions , Heros etc are the real Target . As a European you must have nothing , unless it's the approved version of reality . If they allow you to have strong hero's and Myths etc , your children may grow up to be confident and have strength and even a love their Traditions and people .
@@zeyadalbadawi8774 When you see Patterns , that tells you something is up . Attacks on everything from classic books to movies etc . This is happening in all western lands at the same time proves coordination on a mass scale . It's clealry a planned attack , not just sjw's and Karens , it's well planned funded and pushed via the media , again all proving coordination and big money .
He knows the definition, the origin, and its different iterations throughout time. I mean, he created his own language after all. Like, a real, learnable, usable language. Tolkien may very well be the greatest linguist of all time
He also 'invented' the modern way to spell the plural of dwarf. The rebuke letter he wrote to the publisher is awesome, you should look it up some time.
As a Brit I really appreciated him pointing out that my country never had Jim Crow laws and that they were a purely American phenomenon. I can't tell you how annoyed I get by the racist SJWs assuming that the US is the entire world, it isn't and the UK isn't a racist country we just don't want our culture destroyed by racists pretending to be the good guys.
"Given the length and Tolkien's writing style (more history book than fantasy novel)," That line alone just proves she doesn't want to be a fan, she wants to be a consumer and, apparently, a dictator.
I’m a straight white male so I’m probably wrong by default, but when I was little I loved and wanted to be static shock. Didn’t matter that he didn’t look like me, I thought he was cool. I don’t have pointy ears and can’t walk on top of snow, but watching lord of the rings got me into archery because I wanted to be like legolas
@@th-ck9vl Hate to say it, but in today's society, being a straight white male is an automatic cause for scrutiny and hate. Some places don't have it as much like here in Wyoming but in bigger population centers and the internet (like twitter and Facebook) it's a huge thing. It's all bigotry and fascism hiding behind an anti-racist and anti-fascist cloak. Us straight white males are deemed responsible for all the negative in the world and nothing will change their minds.
If you’re a black fan of fantasy than growing up you’ll remember that the lack of black people in the works was a running joke among us. “Damn there aren’t ANY black people in Middle Earth!?” That was always followed by a bunch of laughs i.e. no one was really offended by it. Then you get older and learn the concept of the individuals portrayed on screen and their appearance being a reflection of the settings that the works are based off of, to JSG’s point. At that point it all makes sense and even a genuine curiosity as to a lack of black characters has been legitimately answered. Most popular/well known fantasy works are based on medieval settings. The characters are going to be white 🤷🏿♂️. Shit still goes fucking hard 💪🏿. P.s. I’ve never looked at Orcs and thought “Oh there’s the black folks!” That isn’t how I view me and mine P.s.s Tolkien was an avowed anti racist...if ole girl was actually a fan and actually cared about this issue she would have taken the time to learn that ✊🏿
I agree. And if you're gonna have us black people in this medieval fantasy setting, make it realistic. Have them come from a place. Realistically these stories take place where white people live. That's just it.
This is why I CANNOT stand fake fans, especially in the world of Tolkien's middle-Earth!! They find something that they "like", and when confronted on how big of fan they are (probably getting educated on the actual lore from the books [since they never read them]), then super pissed when they get called for lying about the characters that everyone loves! But, this is what Hollywood has created, and echo chamber of people who THINK that they're right, when they aren't. Just the opinion of a straight white dude in the south.
@@susanmaggiora4800 *cough* ramesses 2 (y'know, one of the most recognizable names in Egyptian histoy and I'm pretty sure Egypt is still in north Africa) was a literal ginger.
Excellent and beautiful breakdown, thank you. I don't get how if there were white-washing of an obviously African culture (Black Panther was a perfect example), there would be major upheaval. Yet black-washing of a distinctly Anglo culture is overlooked or somehow expected. This has become even more topical recently with Rings of Power and I appreciate true fans coming to the forefront on this.
did she not watch even just return of the king? "id never thought id die fighting side by side with an elf" "or what about side by side with a friend?" "aye,...I could do that"
I know this is a completely different, fan-made franchise, but even Talion (a white as hell white guy) starts making interesting friends with some of these orcs, if she wants to complain that some LotR videos games represent orcs in a bad way.
By all means, add Tolkien’s works to the long, long line of wrecked stories, film franchises and other mythos to be “platforms” for Woke’d Up, Intersectional-ized and Representation-tastic current day virtue signaling. I’m sure THIS TiME the result with actual fans (paying customers) will be different than Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, et al. Especially with Bad Robot on board. (Weary sigh) We’ll always have Peter Jackson’s LOTR. Just make sure you’ve got it on physical media.
hunterkiller1984 Absolutely. I made it my mission to find secondhand or used VG condition copies of the same PB versions I read in the 80s. Ebooks can be a convenience, but physical is necessity.
All the comments left my head spinning. I can't tell who's talking about who, what are the comments about, or, why am I wasting my time on this. EVERY person has an opinion, until they cross the fine line of their experience, into calling others names, and GUESSING their motives. Sorry now, I even tried to have a conversation.
"Don't let the Gates of Moria hit you on the way out" Absolutely brilliant video. I get tired of telling people that Tolkien did not describe orcs in any detail. He did not describe anything in any detail except hobbits and landscape. When I read LotR as a kid, I had a hard time picturing orcs - my mental image was of some decidedly non-human "goblinoid", short, with long elf-like ears, a stooped shambling walk. I remember orcs being described as a "parody of elves", so I assumed short, ugly elves. If someone reads LotR and thinks "orcs are black people" then perhaps they are the racist.
Imposters :" We don't have enough POC representation in comics" Milestone Universe: Apparently I must have been a joke to you as, NONE OF YOU F*CING BOUGHT MY BOOKS!!!
@@613harbinger316 For the time his was one of the most original powers I'd ever come across. The face off between him and Wise son was epic. That said, I'm sure it was the imposter that faced off with him (Against Wise Son). Damn, my memory is mush, it's been that long.
Imagine trying to reboot the guy with flame powers in blood syndicate today. His name and attitude would really get some heads spinning. Not including name here because some words definitely get your comments deleted by susan's ai filters
Bravo!! Tolkien would be proud with the eloquence with which you defended your position. I usually do not comment on many things but had to speak up and say how much I loved this video. I loved the way you broke it down point by point. Fans like you give me hope that one day this distortion of all fandoms will stop and we can all go back to just enjoying the works as they were meant by their creators.
Going after Tolkien is probably one of the most fruitless pursuits, since his narrative was pretty much airtight. The only things we don’t fully understand are purposefully shrouded in mystery, and he includes a large wealth of races, cultures, and languages in his world-building.
A lot of "fake fans" also don't understand how deep the Lore goes. Even the films had to be revised, edited and taken artistic liberties with. You cant watch the films, state your a fan and then when people start talking about the history of Bombadil, the line of kings, what a flet is and the difference between the Eldar and Avari through your toys out of the pram. The above is also some of the most basic LOTR knowledge that the films can't really portray.
They could have expanded upon those areas, also a great way to include diversity by exploring Harad or the Easterlings, even if not that just make your diverse characters travellers, agents, or refugees from these areas. Maybe the prince of a kingdom which fell to Sauron, living in exile? Compelling, and faithful to the bloody lore. What we got is a disgrace!
Why are everyone dabbling in identity politics so one-dimensional? Their race, gender, or sexuality is their ENTIRE personality. They are like living caricatures.
I grew up watching a lot of Chinese kung fu movies. NOT ONCE did I ever think I was not represented in those movies. I still identified with the characters even if they didn't look like me.
Would be Funny. But Sauron didn't really care about the orcs. Only realized there usefulness. But never trusted them. And usefulness is questionable. That's why he want Haradrim. Variags of Khand. And Esterlings. To do his bidding. And Far Harad would of most certainly had Black people. And Orcs weren't black people. They were a mixture of races. As they were mostly slaves. Captured from everywhere. God Karen's are ridiculous. I love Tolkien and his Work through. Pure Genius.
At 8:33 Just Some Guy seems to accept this ridiculous assumption that Tolkien's description of orcs was "devoid of logic or reasoning" whereas Merry and Pippin's conversations with Grishnákh during their abduction gives great insight into his motives and reasoning.
"More a history book than ..." yeah, girl, you clearly have zero experience in medieval literature writing styles which is exactly what Tolkien, because he was a freakin' _professor_ in this field, based his style on. Story/structure driven and characters as means to tell that story. It's a style that sadly went out of fashion long ago and as a phd in medieval lit, for me eading Tolkien is like coming home. He really managed what few or even none have managed since: telling old stories in new coating but deeply rooted in old storytelling techniques.
Listening to this in the barracks. My black squadmate, a huge LOTR fan, is switching to and fro between laughing his ass off and gaping in disbelief at some of the articles you quote. Keep it up!
Wait what.... what??!!! I'm Peruvian and I think it's not normal to obsess about the skin color of fictional characters. I'd even say that it sounds scary... Tolkien is my favorite writer. The Silmarillion is my favourite book ever, and his work, as well as his thoughts and views on writing (such as in "Mythopoeia", "On Fairy-Stories") are what I identify the most whenever I imagine or dream about worlds of fantasy. And I don't think I need to be white or for him to have had someone with "brown skin" in his works to somehow "have or feel that I have the right to identify myself" with the characters... It sounds like an aberration, to say the least! I'm also a Catholic as Tolkien was, but even that isn't something that normally crosses my mind whenever I read his works... I think today's media and politics are convoluted enough, for me to on top of it want to project some... kind of thing onto the stuff that in the first place I already enjoy and that make my life better, that support me and help me endure, specially during THESE TIMES. Professor Tolkien was a great man and I really can't stand such horrible takes and forced misinterpretations on his work... Sorry, I had to take it out of my chest. I think your video and view on this topic is quire centered and reasonable in itself... I just can't believe there are people with such distorted way to see things. I can't imagine myself thinking everyday that anything or anyone surrounding me is my enemy, when there's no justification at all. When it's that person's fault, not the author!
Such great and underrated comment :) I m very happy to hear about still another place where Tolkien got fans. And that feels good :) I m from Poland and I m glad to be of catholicism descent even though my adventures with religions were not as smooth as being a catholic all my life :) I must say that as much as I consider myself European with 95% of Slavic DNA and with my ancestry coming from at least 6 countries of Europe I guess that most of my knowledge about being European I have learned actualy from interesting in Tolkien's books and in books which inspired him. I sincerely recomend you reading a nice little book "Celebrating Middle-earth: The Lord of the Rings as a Defense of Western Civilization" - short and complete explanation of what is truely western and christian in Tolkien's mythology. My view about Tolkien's ideas which were stored in his books and in his letters (his letters is great reading anyway even if the reader is not his fan) is that he was not against other cultures of course - he was against totalitarian regimes. Against devouring of our free individual choices by any political ideologies of total power and greed. Tolkien in his letters said that he is against "bowing to the Iron Crown". Which was IMHO his term for totalitarian regimes, for enslaving the world by one total indoctrination. The Iron Crown which was of course Morgoth's crown was - I suppose - Tolkien's metaphoric speaking of totalitarisms. Stay true to your own small homeland and evigorate it with your work and your heart - dont bow to any totalitarian lunacy. Warm Wishes from Polish Tolkienian :)
Hey, that role is mine! There aren't enough overweight 46 year old white dudes being represented as elf women in media right now! Racism and sexism, probably!
The real turning point of Gimli and Legolas's relationship was after Galadriel gave Gimli 3 locks of her hair. A gift she denied her own uncle Feanor who ended up crafting the 3 Silmarils. Which ended well. Edit- Damn man, your Elven is pretty good. Fingolfin drew his sword Ringil, that glittered like ice
I used to work in the receiving room of a major bookstore. The guy I worked with and I used to discuss LOTR and Star Wars lore all day, everyday. One of us was black - which one? WHO THE FUCK CARES! It was some of the coolest discussions while doing work I've ever had.
According to SJW rules, if your co-worker was the Black one and you didn't notice he was Black, then that was Racist of you. Or vice versa. It's Racist to now simply judge someone based on the content of their character.
I know this feel. I work with a guy, and when we start jabbering on about a given fandom we both share, we get on like a house on fire. We geeked out hard on a discussion on Pacific Rim for almost two hours after we clocked out. The first one. We had a "did we just become best friends?!" moment when our geek-on turned to Big Trouble in Little China. And, despite neither of us being white or asian, you couldn't convince us otherwise, even with a gun to our heads, that it wasn't one of the best movies of all time.
Mutual interests and honesty leads to friendships…. Not skin color or genitals… and I actually laughed at your “WHO THE FUCKS CARES!!” Bravo my friend! I’d stand by your side at Helms Deep anytime.
Wow. So brilliant. Is it weird that I feel so humbled and grateful to hear such an eloquent defense of ango-saxon and nordic culture expressed in art? As if to appreciate such culture is in no way to exclude ANY fan, nor to diminish the beauty of all other human cultures, no matter whence they hail.
@@RogueFox2185 Well they find the Adeptus Sororitas problomatic as well because: 1. they are a bunch of religious fanatics despite the whole damn Imperium being like that; 2. Boob armour. Just don't let them know about Slannesh
I know this is a re-upload but I'm still rewatching the whole thing. on a side note though, as someone who's biracial (black and white) it makes me really sad to see that the modern African American culture is to only replace characters with black characters, go on Twitter and look up #blacktober. white people made original White characters and original black characters that people just enjoy, but it seems like the modern African American culture won't just make original characters as well, I'm sure that I would enjoy plenty of them. you don't have to take things away from people I feel like we all learned that as kids
But it is not about fairness it is about vengeance and sticking it to the man. It is just weird saw a heir to a multimillionaire walk around campus on this top end private collage chanting "we have nothing to lose but our chains" . You see privilege is not personnel it is race bound.
We would see more original black characters. But people that aren't always black have an obsession with doing shit like this. Maybe if they let more artists be creative and such maybe we'd see more new characters
You’re supposed to relate to fake characters through experiences and feelings not because they look just like you or because you too have powers of some kind. Superman has always been my favorite superhero, I’ve never been able to fly tho. Lol. Black panther is awesome but I don’t have access to vibranium or a cool suit. I do however know shat it’s like to lose your father, I do know the feeling of wanting to help ppl. I do know how it feels to experience love. These are the things that matter, not having one of every type of ppl in everything. As far as tolkien, seeing ppl bitch about something helps you know they’re just pissed they aren’t near talented enough to produce such great works, just jealous and entitled.
“You can still like characters that don’t look like you.” Thank you. Dude, I have more in common with Hellboy personality wise than I do with Batman. I don’t have red skin, horns, a stone hand or a tail but I still relate to the character. I love eating candy and other junk food. I still pronounce pancakes as “pamcakes” like a doofus just like Hellboy.
Ain't THAT the truth, I'm a white guy, and I can name TWO black characters I like; Frozone in The Incredibles 1&2, and T'Challa/Black Panther in Black Panther, the LATTER movie, IRONICALLY, having a middle of the credits clip that delivers a VERY important message for our time. "The WISE, build BRIDGES, while the FOOLISH, build BARRIERS." These SJWs are building barriers wherever we try to build bridges; they're FOOLS. I like Frozone because he's a cool guy, and he's a VERY good friend to Bob and Helen, AND is GLAD to help them with their kids; which NOW, is more important to see than EVER because it shows that blacks and whites CAN in fact be ACTUAL friends. And I like T'challa because he's a good leader who really cares about his people and wants to do what's best for them; AND he invokes Martin Luther King Jr. by NOT discriminating based on race, which's WHY he fights M'Chakka to STOP him from forging a Wokandan Empire by arming incarcerated black CRIMINALS with Vibranium weapons, and ENSLAVING the whites M'Chakka calls their "oppressors", even though they had the SAME level of freedom as the whites, and ONLY lost it when they committed the SAME crimes that'd see a WHITE person's freedom revoked. On a different note, it was also really COOL to see ACTUAL AFRICAN cultures represented on screen through Wokanda, which shows us that blacks DO in fact have cultures of their OWN, instead of seeing a European, Asian, or North or South American culture get BLACK WASHED, which suggests their nothing more than PARASITES leeching off white and Asian culture. The FORMER of these two needs to happen more often.
@@ezrafaulk3076 good luck with african mythology, the fake inclusives don't care about it. Shame, because i would enjoy a tv series about the Budas (were-hyenas) just as one example
Tolkien is right up there with Shakespeare as an idol of mine. Hate how people try to ruin something, because....just cause. Hate how this had to get reuploaded. Can’t imagine why TH-cam had to purge it, but they don’t need a reason as it seems
@@Ensign_Cthulhu Do not worry british tv already "corrected" that, a few years ago I saw those movies called the Hollow Crown, they had a pretty impressive cast which was the selling point to me; in Henry IV one of the characters I think it was the Earl of Worcester was interpreted by an actor of color, the role was small anyway so it was not an important detail, then in Henry V one of the king's men was also interpreted by a person of color, I actually laughed when after watching the credits I realized this was no random soldier but the Duke of York, I did not find it funny due the inaccuracy not only to history but to the plays themselves but because that same character had appeared in the previous movie, as the english Duke of Aumale, interpreted by other actor, so in their odd internal logic at some point in the roughly 15 years from the end of Henry IV to Battle of Agincourt he somehow changed races, I guess he started identifying as person of color thus the change.
It was always my understanding that the orcs and goblins appeared dark because they were dirty from living underground and not washing and also because of their dark clothing, not because they had dark skin. Also because they can't go out in the sun they are almost exclusively seen in dim light/darkness which makes them look dark by default. Tolkien described Gollum as "Darker than darkness" but we know he had pale sallow skin just like the goblins. It's clear to me that when Tolkien references darkness in an individual it references a darkness of spirit. Light is a symbol of hope in Arda, whether it's the stars or the sun or the trees or the lamps and the bad guys are constantly trying to extinguish it. To conflate this idea of darkness with the literal darkness of skin shows a complete lack of intelligence and understanding.
@@Null_Experis The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism. The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power”. (DR MLK JR)
Deep deep respect. I literally tested up and snorted with glee when you said “Oh you can call yourself a Tolkien fan....you’re not a Tolkien fan, you’re a Peter Jackson fan.” You came, you saw, you slayed! 😂
And yet, I find that those who have no higher education often say some of the stupidest things possible. Hatred for education and the educated is destroying this country.
African myths and folklore outside of maybe Anansi aren’t really known here in the West. And it really is a gold mine for writers to drawn inspiration from.
Plenty of authors do this already this woman has no clue about the following because she isn't a fantasy fan. Charles R. Saunders Imaro series Book 1 Imaro Book 2 Imaro: Quest for Cush Book 3 Imaro: The Trail of Bohu Book 4 Imaro: The Naama War Nyumbani Tales Dossouye duology Book 1 Dossouye Book 2 Dossouye: The Dancers of Mulukau Abengoni: First Calling N.K Jemisin The Inheritance Trilogy Book 1 The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms Book 2 The Broken Kingdoms Book 3 The Kingdom of Gods The Dreamblood Duology Book 1 The Killing Moon Book 2 The Shadowed Sun The Broken Earth Book 1 The First Season Book 2 The Obelisk Gate Book 3 The Stone Sky Marlon James The Dark Star Trilogy Book 1 Black Leopard Red Wolf Book 2 Moon Witch, Night Devil (yet to be released) Book 3 The Boy and the Dark Star (yet to be released) Tomi Adeyemi Legacy of Orisha Book 1 Children of Blood and Bone Book 2 Children of Virtue and Vengeance Book 3 ??? Book 4 ??? Book 5 ??? Evan Winters The Burning Book 1 The Rage of Dragons Book 2 The Fires of Vengeance Book 3??? Book 4??? Nnedi Okorafor Who Fears Death The Book of the Phoenix Binti Trilogy Book 1 Binti Book 2 Home Book 3 The Night Masquerade Ataka Witch Zahrah the Windseeker Rena Barron Kingdom of Souls trilogy Book 1 Kingdom of Souls Book 2 Reaper of Souls Maya and the rising Dark Antoine Bandele Tales of Esowon series The Kishi Sky Pirate Chronicle Book 1 By Sea & Sky Book 2 Of Ruin & Silk (March 2021) book 3 For Code & Honor (yet to be released) TJ Young & the Orishas Book 1 The Gatekeeper's Staff (yet to be released) An Orisha tale Book 1 Will of the Mischief Maker Milton J. Davis Changa's Safari series Griots: A Sword and Soul Anthology Fallen Meji Duology Eda Blessed: A Ki Khanga Adventure Priestess of NKu: A Ki Khanga Adventure Amber series Book 1 Amber and the hidden city Book 2 Amber and the enchanted sword From Here to Timbuktu The Makurian (out 2021) Tochi Onyebuchi Beasts made of Night Crown of Thunder Suyi Davies Okungbowa Godhunter Son of the Storm (yet to be released) Anthony Kwamu Timbuktu Chronicles: Aida and the Chosen Soldier Gregory Walker Shades of Memnon series Book 1 The African warrior of the Trojian war Book 2 Ra Force Rising Book 3 African Atlantis Unbound E.O. Odiasa and K.N Pumpuni The Last Warrior King Book 1 A Cry to War Book 2 A Dance For The Gods
@@laratamee2944 out of the list I gave I recommend Rage of Dragons (and the sequel that came out a few months ago), Kingdom of Souls (and the sequel which I am currently reading now) and the sword and sorcery series called Imaro this one I believe is getting a tv adaptation. And oh ye possibly Black Leopard Red Wolf but, be warned its very sexual and graphic that one but it gets very interesting im still waiting for book 2.
@@actaeondiomedes4270 Tolkien was clear in his writing. If he intended a character to be, look , think, or behave a certain way they did. We should not disrespect him by writing in what he did not intend. And please don't use all caps, it's considered yelling and is not polite.
@@NeferLioness Not polite? I’ll tell you what’s not polite. Looking for every reason you can to exclude people like me. Being asked to perform extra emotional labor because my colored presence in your white fantasy world make you feel uncomfortable in ways you don’t want to unpack and address. Not polite is seeing the world as white by default and then getting mad at the people who aren’t. Not polite is using flimsy excuses to prop up thousands of years of exclusion and intolerance. Using Tolkien’s exact verbiage is just another rhetorical trick to avoid having to see and hear us. Why can’t you see that?
Gimli: Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with an elf.
Legolas: Is that a microaggression???
"Is this a personal attack or something?"
😂😂😂
Legolas:did you assume my race shit lord
*I predict a street fight*
HAH!!! That’s accurate
Writer of article: Tolkien, black people exist
Tolkien: ... I know... I was born in Africa.
Kristina "Fake fan":
*M I N D B L O W N*
A black servant took him to the kraal to show him off to the villagers, as a curiosity. His parents were distraught at his disappearance but relieved to find him happily playing with the locals.
@@adventussaxonum448
Is that true? Where did you read it?
@@darcyliz9993 It's right there: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#Childhood
@@NBWDocSnyder
Ah. Ok. Thanks.😁
Image what happens when she discovers that Darth Vader is played by a white man and voiced by a black man, it will blow her little mind.
what's a Nubian?
@@toddwilliams8128 t'is an African mate
Why not just google it?
And what does that have to do with Tolkien?
Tolkien was born in South Africa not in southern Egypt or northern Sudan....
@@bugzyhardrada3168 I'm assuming youve never seem the movie "Chasing Amy"... If you haven't it's one of Kevin Smith's better films.
@@toddwilliams8128 sorry dude cant say i have.
To be honest i think the only Kevin Smith film i can safely say ive seen is Dogma...
And that was a while ago but it was okay.
Im guessing that was a reference from chasing amy that "whooshed" over my head....
@@toddwilliams8128 that scene was hilarious one of my favorite in the movie
As a woman, whenever they remake classic movies but give them an all-female cast, it isn’t empowering at all.
It makes me feel like I’m being talked down to.
They claim to be all about female empowerment but they couldn’t be bothered to come out with *original* female-led content that doesn’t tout a “male vs female” narrative or call attention to itself in that way.
The fact that they have crapped on a decades-old fan base in the name of pandering is actually disgusting.
They didn’t create something *original* with strong diverse leads that didn’t tout a “POC vs white” narrative or call attention to itself in that way.
This crap is demeaning in every way.
Something I can't stand about this whole Amazon thing (in my opinion, as a woman) is that they claim to be making it more "feminist" and "equal". Okay, I can list about 40 women throughout Tolkien's books, most of whom are admirable in at least one or two ways. To me, Lúthien, Arwen, Galadriel, Éowyn, Melian, etc. are more empowering in the books, as they were written by Tolkien, than the way modern film tries to portray them. Strong female characters don't have to fit one mold and I wish these writers would realise that at one point.
Couldn’t agree more. Also, female characters also don’t have to call attention to the fact that they are strong. They just are. They do their thing and people think they’re awesome for it.
“And any man who must say “I am king”’ is no true king at all.”
FINALLY. Someone said it!
@@nataliedarley3943 that was what made Ripley and Sarah Connor so badass. They just did the thing for all they were worth. Ripley was doing her job and Sarah was learning to protect her son.
@@victorianmariner Yessss! I feel like the movies took away from the female characters in the book a bit by "fleshing them out" and creating romances that didn't exist when they really didn't need fleshing out or extra romantic plotlines. One of the most iconic lines (at least to me) is "but no man am I. You look apon a woman". In the books I was never bothered that all the fellowship were men because they're just good characters, and the women are good (and brave) characters too. And they didn't all need to be badass to be role models
Karens: LOTR is racist!
LOTR: Different races banding together to fight the forces of evil.
tHe OrCs ArE bLaCk PeOpLe
Hell, we need Lord of the Rings NOW more than ever!
And by more than ever I'm OBVIOUSLY excluding the 50s the 60s the 40s the 30s and all the times where there were slaves in America! :/
@@FantasticExplorers These are Attacks on Europeans , well funded and planned and implimented across the media , movies , education . You and your European Traditions , Heros etc are the real Target . As a European you must have nothing , unless it's the approved version of reality . If they allow you to have strong Hero's and Myths etc , your children may grow up to be confident , have strength and even a love their Traditions and people . It's plainly obvious this is all planned and well funded , so stand Men and Women of Europa , you have the blood of real Hero's and Warriors flowing tru you ( Viking , Roman , Spartan , Slave , Celt , Germaic etc )
@@parabot2 it's 100% true. It's an attack on our continent and everything we represent.
"You had to go to college to say something that stupid?". There's a line that will get some mileage over the decades.
That's why I'm not going to college.
@@ezrafaulk3076 Trade schools all the way.
There’s actually a quote I remember from Penn and Teller bullshit, it was from Dennis Prager.
“You haft to have gone to college to say something that stupid”.
I use that quote more times then I care to admit lol
@@jessie801000 "Haft to"? wtf?
@@NPC-nn4qe it’s called auto correct ass-hat
I’m a Malay Muslim woman and I have fallen in love with Lord of the Rings since I was 11 years old and I have read the books and The Silmarillion. I LOVE the fact that it is inspired by English, Scottish, Irish and Celtic mythology. I don’t need to see Malay people in the movies or show in order to feel represented. I love these characters because they’re so well written and are just such good people with admirable qualities. If I wanted a Malay mythological movie or show I’d expect it to come out of my own country.
As-salamu alaykum, me too, peace to you..,.
You are white worshippers in Malaysia
"Don't let the Gates of Moria hit you on the way out." Pure gold...I love it!
The doors of Durin. After all your not a "friend".
Nice....
Imagine how annoying it is, to be black and a genuine fan of these old, beloved franchises. Investing deeply into the lore, the stories, the characters for years. Only for some elite, middle class arrogant types to cancel it in the name of protecting you.
How insulting is that?
@@DemonicRemption Just boring at this point, isn't it?
To be honest I don't see a problem with a whole world or the whole cast being white or one particular ethnic group or even if they're all the same gender, even male. I'm saying this as a feminist progressive, and please don't mix us up with the sjws.
I have no problem relating to stories where all the characters are male, different racial or ethnic background than me, etc. In fact, acknowledging this I feel like helps us realize that race is not important for character relatability, nor is gender or background. The point of destroying racism and sexism is to prove that we are all the same, and the idea that we are all different is old-fashioned and backwards. I'm really ashamed of the current liberal perspectives in america, because it's basically doing what liberals fought originally.
, the plot seems to actually talk about racism and defensiveness on its own, it's not automatically what the premises by having a bunch of white characters, like a lot of people seem to claim
@@otakumangastudios3617 I understand your point, and I find it best not to lump people into categories. There are different kinds of feminists with different beliefs and reasons why they believe what they do. Goes without saying but I find alot of people making this mistake alot.
The problem I have with what you just said, is this hyper-focus on race, origin, gender. This is what alot of people have a problem with.
I feel alot of people do not need a character to be like them, or even to relate to that character in any way in order to enjoy a story.
You clearly like anime. Most anime features japanese characters, some of them absolutely bizarre to the point where nobody can relate to them. Does that make the story any less entertaining? I don't think it does tbh.
I think this is why people who identity as a feminist end up annoying some folk. This fixation on race, gender, etc- hyper politicises forms of entertainment that most people (of all backgrounds) want to use for escapism after a hard day of work.
I do 100% understand the point you're trying to make though. Perhaps you feel differently and feel you do need to relate to a character. This is a subjective opinion, and it's an interesting perspective I've not heard of before so thank you for that.
@@otakumangastudios3617
What does a feminist progressive believe?
I ask this because whenever I've listened to someone who calls themselves a feminist but express moderate views, their stated beliefs tend to be more accurately defined as egalitarian, and most people who openly call themselves progressives also tend to believe that they are the only ones who know the path and the only ones who get to choose which way is forward.
What I mean is that the word progressive doesn't necessarily designate a good thing.
Progression just means something is moving forward towards an end or a goal, but those who use the word "progressive" as part of their rallying cry usually paint it to the public as *"if it has the word progressive in it, it means it is automatically something good"* , without further elaborating on their intentions.
I mean, for example; Hitler's rise in Germany progressed from a small following to complete rule, and eventually progressed futher into invading and conquering other territories.
As I said, I'm only asking because I want to know, and it is sadly way to common that someone calling themselves even one of those words are either mistaken or their stated distinctiveness just ends up being the same with a different coat of paint...
J.R.R. Tolkien may have been one of the most brilliant men who ever lived. He was deeply religious (Christian) he was welcoming and encouraging (The Inklings look it up) and he made people and students around him better. He INVENTED languages for LOTR that did not exist before him, entire lexicons invented for his work. He CREATED an entire genre of fiction, he inspired art, movies, books...universes and generated more creativity than nearly any other fiction writer before or since. WORLDS came from this man's scholarship and humanity! This man NEVER met an enemy just friends he had not met yet, NEVER showed any signs of racist thought or attitude in his ENTIRE breadth of work, which we have a lot of. NOT...ONE...SHRED!!!
In other words. This man was a gentle intellectual giant who enriched our modern world in ways we can't even conceive of, he was a devout quiet doddering collegian who never let on that he had a UNIVERSE in his brain which he must have understood was going to be a game changer but he still supported lesser works with equal enthusiasm, ever hear of Narnia?
This was a incredible human being in every conceivable way. For you, who have SUFFERED NOTHING...have INVENTED NOTHING...and UNDERSTAND NOTHING...to throw shade at such a man...is like an ant tossing pebbles at a giants ankle because you think he is casting too much shadow.
Get his name out ya mouth if you are not thanking him for leaving his world behind to enrich yours, you racist MORON!
Nuff said...
I came to applause you!!
I also want to say thanks to Tolkien, his stories and songs (in the Hobbit) are my three year old sons favorite bed time stories.
@@CarnivoreMomma LOVE THIS COMMENT SECTION!!!
I still love the ballad of the misty mountains.
slow claps
I don't know that he never met an enemy, maybe not a personal enemy. He was wounded in World War I.
I’m a 6’2 221lb black man an have no problem relating to a 4’6 member of Durin’s folk but that’s just me lol
Imagine a dwarf to that scale ragdolling orcs
ohh height and weight are the only thing that matters? GTFO
@@ULTRAMANNYDJ yes.
blah blah blah
@@ULTRAMANNYDJ fun size does not always match personality.
She's literally the personification of the "I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?" meme.
I love it how people like her demand they be elves, but never a dwarf or hobbit.
Probably because the elves are fare more beautifull. At least by human standards. I mean seriously. In Lord of the Rings female dwarfs have beards.
I personally would love being a (male) dwarf. But I don't consider female dwarfs attractive. Even those without beards in other fantasy worlds. I just like women tall and feminine. Which female dwarfs are neither.
@@Teufer2 What's wrong with having a beard... ;)
Or even the humans.
Just like how Sauron, who took the shape of an elve to deceive elves, dwarfes and men.
@@jochendeclercq5648 Nothing wrong with having a beard. I have on myself. Almost as proud of it as a dwarf.
But men having a bigger facial hair grow than woman. Beards have become a symbol of manliness.
So a woman with beard is just to manly for most man.
I’m a black woman, I love Tolkien stories. How do orcs represent black people? The orcs in the film were evil monsters. I thought ors were elves that turned evil. To me Tolkien LOTR was about conquering the evil that lives within ourselves. She is projecting her racist experiences on the Tolkien stories. If she wants black mythological stories. She can read Anansi stories, West African folk tales.
I'm agree with you. Orc create from elves with somekind darkmagic, that what Saruman do when he create the army. so its not make sense to say orcs represent black people.
The thing about a good story is it doesn't matter where it comes from as long as the content is good. You like LotR. My Asian best friend loves French culture. I'm the whitest white person I've ever seen and I love Native American myths. It's about the content, not the point of origin, and more people need to realise that.
you are correct! Orcs were originally elves that were taken by Melkor (or other known as Morgoth) who tortured and twisted them into those monsters we know now.
Always wondered why these representation fanatics don't start making African legends and fairy tales into movies and shows. African cultures have so much to offer and it would be real representation to bring these into cinemas.
Ive actually listened to those, gives a strong trickster god feel
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
- Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
Since when do elves, dwarves, and hobbits represent what the world actually looks like? That's why it's called FANTASY.
@@robinlillian9471 it does represent middle earth heavily though, so how can u say that??
You misunderstand. Amazon have stated they want their show to represent the real world, hence this guy's point. There are no elves or drawves in the real world. Also, news flash. The shire, isengard, Mordor et Al are all fictional.
Let's change them to New York, Florida and California
i just wanna know how the fuck a dwarf is black. they live underground
@@abbacuspotter9232 woke logic
As a caucasian, I want to say this. When there's an epic High fantasy based on african, asian, south american or oceanian folklore, I am excited to read it, I revel in the beauty of different culture, and I do NOT expect anything about those stories to come from caucasian background. I never considered that to be racist. But based on Christina's logic, it apparently is. ☹️
No it’s not because if it’s against whites it can’t be racist right? 🙃 It only goes one way. You inject white into African mythology you’re crucified. You inject black into European mythology you’d better accept it or you’re a racist POS
@@ShiffDawgMan Yup. "Equality".
Way to take this idiot’s logic and turn it around!! Awesome comment ❤️
Everyone is just jealous of white people let’s be honest here. Let’s call it for what it really is. They’re mad that they can’t hate them, everyone loves white people and their culture. That’s why all the refugees want to go to Europe or the U.S. Better quality of life, better system, education etc.
Imagine the reaction if there was a movement drawing attention to how few white Wakandans there are in Black Panther and demanding their inclusion. Just fucking imagine.
I once saw a Japanese movie about a village during the Samurai era... all the actors in it were Japanese...Was that a bad thing, too?
I will explain to you as someone who has grown up in a liberal environment where many of those people ended up sjws, basically, the idea is that white people have been overrated for their relatability, and so having a bunch of people who are not white in a film is innovative, but not if there's exclusively white people casted. It's based off of basically the long history of white supremacy in america, that it's still affecting us to this day that if we see something that is predominantly white cast and white culture lore, then it's automatically seen as racist because it's seen through the guise of what supremacy, which really goes to show how much white supremacy is still affecting us to this day. What's supremacy seems to be strong as not just in the far right, but in the far left, and this is how it represents itself.
Yes, it's bigoted, but they don't see it that way. That's why also they tend to be cynical towards white people and feel like it's okay to critique them, and make them out as the big racists, because again, we are still so affected by eurocentricism and white supremacy in this country, that again, the automatic assumption is that if there's majority White characters or focus on european-based fantasy and or lore, then it's automatically racist.
The reason why most people around the world don't think this way, is because it does not have the same history about racism as America does. It does not have the same history of continuous divisiveness due to the ideation of race, basically kind of sort of similar to the Nazis perspective race, has just infiltrated American so much, that they see everyone as what their appearance is, and see it as an identifying feature of that person's humanity, while in most other countries, people don't think like that, and I feel like a great example of this is, I have a tendency of drawing my manga characters to look recognizably Japanese to the American eye, which I did not really fully realize at that time. In case you didn't know, most anime/manga characters that are Japanese actually do look japanese, but the reason why they look white to sjws, is because it's a eurocentric country, and it's art, so people will see it from whatever perspective they have. It's an interesting thing to think about when considering sociology and psychology, that how we perceive an appearance is really what dictates that appearance and what it means to us and what it is and what our brain recognizes it as, and again, it shows the eurocentricism of the so-called social justice warriors who apparently are not a fleck of racist in them are actually the racist ones, because they're choosing to look at these characters only from their very eurocentric Western perspective.
@@otakumangastudios3617 The Lord of the Rings and other related works were meant to give the British people a mythology of their own. Thus none of the core characters are non-white for this reason. Thus any race-swapping is actually racist. In Tolkien's day, Britain saw itself as they were in the 19th century - particularly the pre-Industrial Revolution Era. Britain of the Pre-Industrial Era was NOT multi-cultural nation.
@@nicholaslin1630 it seems you have missed my point. My point was, in other words, there's nothing at all racist with having all the characters be white, it's based off of lore from a predominantly white area, there's no need to race swap any of the characters. Not to mention, race is minimally important to the characters, except for when we're talking about imaginary ones such as elves and halflings. The fact they are white doesn't really matter, the story and the characters themselves are what matter.
Perhaps what I mentioned before was confusing, that I was explaining I had a conversation with somebody on the internet from asia, and I was sharing a drawing with him of an anime character that I wanted to look accurately Japanese from all perspectives, and he was seriously dumbfounded by the question, and didn't know how to answer besides telling me that the appearance really doesn't matter, that if I want the character to be japanese, I should write the character to be Japanese and what the character looks like doesn't really matter. To me, this is a sign that the rest of the world does not think about race nearly as much as the West does, reinforcing the idea to me that it's actually more racist to be leaving that it's racist to not include other races within a story, because it's the characters that matter. There's nothing wrong with making their ethnicity a certain thing, and there's nothing wrong with portraying them as different races, but to be upset because they are not what you want them to be, is a little screwed in the head.
@@otakumangastudios3617 And what I am saying is that the Lord of the Rings and associated works by Tolkien were written exclusively for white people with a multi-generation connection with Britain. It was not written originally for non-white people in mind. Thus the characters who are shown to be white are an important part of their characterization. And one's understanding of them and their motivations.
@@nicholaslin1630 *Tolkien also stated that he ultimately failed at creating an English mythology (Christopher agreed with this too), hence why he appropriately stated that Middle-earth was based on Northwestern Europe, and also he stated he based Rhun and Harad on Asia and Africa, respectively ~ The primary story takes place in Eriador (West), however, during the Second Age of Endor there are sub-plots in other regions, for instance: the Druedain who travelled with the Edain to Numenor (as a reward for fighting against Morgoth); the foundation of Numenor's greatest settlement pre-Gondor: Umbar in Far-Harad; those whom the Blue Wizards encounter in Rhun and Harad (as sent by Manwe and Orome); the population of Rhun and Harad in general; Khamul the Easterling when he's given one of the Nine Rings and eventually turns into a Nazgul; Numenorean deforestation and expansionism post Aldarion's odyssey; as well as the offspring of the Numenorean bloodlines who mated with the women of Harad post-Downfall ~*
I miss the days that we could discuss whether Balrogs actually had wings instead of constantly defending this great work from idiots.
I know, its like we used to be able to joke around and have fun, but now it is like the helms deep sequence, all saying stuff like "hold the lines!" because we know that if we allow them to break through that the evil will corrupt everyone
Balrogs have wings but can't fly, they are roasted chickens
@@otto5owls 😂
@@otto5owlsMakes sense.
wing are molten Lava i think, Some Balrogs could actually have wing but not all of them.
"I'm a fan." [Tries to change everything]
*They sing songs that stem not from Illuvatar
You're AWESOME!!!🤣
So basically modern Star Wars fans
Sometimes gate keeping is necessary
@@MultiGuyx We have a very valid reason to get mad at Disney Star Wars
“Evil is not capable of creating anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” - J.R.R. Tolkien
Excellent quote!! ♥️
"The birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus means that one day everything sad will come untrue." -J.R.R. Tolkien
Tolkien, intimately knew the source of all good, even the incredibly brilliant lore he crafted in The Hobbit and LOTR. Tolkien was one of the most beautiful Catholics I know. He helped me drop my ranty atheism and become a Traditional Latin Mass Catholic, as he was.
Sola Deo Gloria
Deus Vult
@@Chamindo7 thank you for sharing that quote. I had never seen it before. The left in America tries to obscure and diminish Tolkien’s Christianity.
@@marcwright4790 Very insightful and so necessary; your last sentence should be posted as a warning on every Tolkien story website. (look what the inheritors of Walt Disney did to the very Christian and moral fairy-tales of Europe. They were made into tools of the devil)
As in the "ape of the Church".
I am not even a Tolkien fan, but I really feel bad for the fans they they have to deal with this....like with every other part of geek culture.
I like the "Bro" and "Imposter" stereotypes, but I will always prefer the word "poser".
That's what they both are posers to nerd culture in general
I agree; however, it's "poseur"
@@theunpopulist6801
At first I thought you were being a tightwad basically saying "HA SILLY AMERICANS! TAKING "U"s out of words!", but no you are actually correct. Poser is different from Poseur. Learned something new.
I call them Fakers.
Yeah the entirety of nerd culture has essentially been gutted and then worn like a skin suit by SJW fake fans who want to control and dominate. They have been doing it with subcultures for awhile now but with their attempt to go after sports we might finally see their power break. But that's me being overly hopeful and melodramatic.
I really hate the term "coded." Trying to project real world races on fictional ones just sets off all my racist alarms.
I long ago learn that when progressive people say things like "Coded", "Dog Whistle", or whatever new term progressive people accused normal people's of it because they actually think like that, do that themselves, and are projecting it onto other.
kif
I mean, it is a real thing. Races in some stories are purposefully coded as certain real world races. The problem is people who find it where it wasn't intended.
How do you feel about "queer-coded"? I see it done a lot in western media.
@@Underworlddream there are quite a few stories, pretty much all I know are by progressives (the kinds of media where this is most common doesn't interest me), but most stories that feature animals have all characters coded as something, like pig farm and zootopia
Some do it well, some do it horribly, pattern seems to be that the subtlest the least the chance it'll turn out to be bad, but it might be that some are so bad the intent doesn't even cross your mind. Like zootopia, where because predators, are predators, and prey are completely different from them, for obvious reasons I didn't correlate the difference between that and different races
"Black people exist"
Wow, thank you for this massive piece of wisdom. I truly had absolutely no idea that black people exist, you've truly opened my eyes.
Mind Blown.
Black people exist … but not in Tolkien’s Middle Earth.
Careful, sarcasm is rarely understood by these people. It’s like a foreign language to them.
@@LoneSilverW0lf i mean, black people are like less than 1% of my country's population, so... Would it be THAT weird if I didn't know they existed if I've never seen one?
I'm Filipino and I am so in love with Lord of the Rings and have read the trilogy several times. I loved its Northern Europe roots and subtle anti-racism as much as I loved the diversity and representation of The Expanse as logical offshoots of migrating mankind. Oh my God I'm a brown white supremacist!
It’s almost like this “white supremacy” they keep crying about is more diverse and accepting than their own movement.
Shame on you!!!! 😂
isn't that normal in philippines? Brown white supremacist where people forget they root and trying to be as western as possible? Hahha just kidding tho. I'm indonesian and I admit we're trying to be as arab as possible.
@@GabrielDipo Ha ha ha touche. A lot of us may be guilty of being 'little brown brothers' but to characterize all who defend tolkien as racist mysoginist white supremacists no matter what race they belong to is the point here. "I want Tolkien to be gay, and if you disagree, you're a racist sexist mysogyniist white supremacist!"
@@GabrielDipo us filipinos happen to be very proud and get a seizure everytime we see a filipino on international tv lmao
I was bullied by girls like this in school for being into D&D and being weird. I was big enough then to slap other guys around so I would much prefer a guy physically bullying me than this Mean Girls hipster culture.
Sad ain't it? They used to bully us for liking this stuff; now they see it getting popular, so they're trying to bully their way back in.
Yup same, get treated like shit for decades by these people but when it becomes trendy we have to accept them coming in and bullying us again while they monetize it, destroy it and moving on to the next thing.
I dont think so.
Exactly! When I was in school girls didn't play video games and called me a geek because I was outspoken about how much I loved them. I remember them calling PlayStation "Nintendo", that's how little they cared.
You can always sit on them and draw on their face with markers. At least that was basically how I dealt with mean girls. They can be very nasty, especially when they appear in a herd. But just pick the loudest one for your art project. They stop their bullying immediately with a few pee pees and wee wees on their face that won't wash off. I usually got expelled too, but it was worth it.
@@thelonespacemarine5211 "This last I say to you, thrall Morgoth," said Hurin, "and it comes not from the lore of the Eldar, but is put into my heart this hour. You are not the Lord of Men, and shall not be, though all Arda and Menel fall in your dominion. Beyond the Circles of the World you shall not pursue those who refuse you."
Christina is the type of girl who'd ask why they didn't just ask the eagles to fly the ring to Mordor.
Ugh, I hate that stupid ass question.
@@ironwraith852 yes stop with the dumb
Duh, orc archers or the Nazgul on their drakes would have shot the eagles down....
@@feanorian21maglor38 I heard maybe it was also the fact that the eagles in LOTR are basically Demi Gods. They were created by Manwë Súlimo the King of the Winds, and were thus extremely powerful. Someone had the reasoning that beings with such power would be susceptible to the rings power, if it were to be delivered by them.
@@ironwraith852 Exactly. The Eagles are representative of divine intervention - and there had long been division and separation between the Valar and the children of Illuvatar due to events in the Simillirilion.
If somebody wrote a masterpiece based on African mythology, I wouldn't go and ask him to shoehorn in a bunch of white characters so I could feel more "represented". The problem with these people is that instead of going out and creating something of their own, they'd rather try to alter something that already exists, in order for it to fit their ideology.
This is the elephant in the room, tbh. Most of these POC / minority 'fans' of various fantasy, sci-fi, and comic-book fandoms seem to have a compulsion for attempting to remould / reconfigure the narrative in White-majority / European-identity fandoms to be more reflective of 'diversity'. When in actuality, if they really called about representation, they would focus on creating their own fandoms and communities that work to celebrate their own mythology, folktales, and ethnic identity / culture.
I recognise that European folklore and mythology is more readily available and fleshed out, but I don't really think that's an excuse tbh. Like, if you're a black person who is pissed about "Muh no black Elves in Lotr" then why not create some sort of mythological story based around ancient Egyptian culture or the Nubian Kingdoms or whatever? To me, if I were a black person, I wouldn't really feel comfortable - in fact I'd feel quite embarrassed - trying to insert my primarily African identity into a narrative (LoTR) that is literally a representation / allegory for traditional North-European identity, folklore and mythology. Tolkien was fluent in Icelandic, and was somewhat envious of the fact that the Nordic peoples had a clearly defined, deeply-rooted mythology, such as that found in the Poetic Edda, which his home-nation of England lacked. As such, he set about creating a self-contained 'mythology' to represent England and the English (obviously recognising England's and the English's historic and ethnic ties to Celtic, Scandinavian and Germanic culture). This can even be seen in his fully-fleshed out languages with Sindarin taking inspiration from Gaelic Welsh, and Quenya drawing similarities to Finnish and Latin.
My point is, LoTR, The Silmarillion, Middle Earth, etc, quite literally wasn't intended with the relatability to black people or 'POC' - on a cultural level - in mind. Obviously anybody of any ethnicity or background can enjoy Tolkien's stories and the fantasy world, and they do. But to say that, as a black person, you don't feel 'represented' in LoTR, is quite accurate, but a non-issue, IMO. I mean, of course you're not going to feel represented, in terms of your identity. And more importantly, why *should* you? Why does something that is symbolic of, and pays homage to, medieval and pre-medieval Northern-European mythology, folklore, people and culture need to make you feel 'represented' (from an identity / ethnic / cultural perspective), unless you share some sort of connection to that people or culture. I love Greek Mythology, for example, but I don't particularly relate to it on an 'identity' level, because I'm not Greek. I've never even been to Greece. So I doubt I feel the same way about Greek Mythology as a native Greek might do. And that's fine! People are - and should be, without any finger-wagging from SJWs - allowed to have stories, artworks and fandoms that are specifically catering to THEIR identities / representations. Not every single thing needs to be multiculturally representative that takes into account every single shade, sexuality gender-expression, body-type and political orientation. Sure, have fandoms that are diversified like that, but why does this have to be the case for all things? It doesn't.
Well put
Lol they just bein Morgoth
I would kill for a movie centered around North and West African culture. So much cool history happened there with the Egyptians, Sudanic Empires, and Carthage to name a few. That'd be the perfect backdrop for some GoT inspired fantasy.
@@OlympusPublicAffairs true, there is tons of rich history and mythology just waiting to be tapped into. Instead of trying to awkwardly adapt existing projects to be diverse they should explore this more. It would also have the added gem of being original which is sorely lacking these days
Isn't there something innately narcissistic about needing fiction to reflect aspects of yourself, specifically your appearance, in order to enjoy or relate to it?
The same goes for the need to draw parallels between reality and fiction.
I've seen people make the argument -- for more than one fantasy IP -- that negative connotations attached to the word 'dark' are racist. As if 'light and dark' carries an innate reference to skin colour irrespective of context.
Fr. I guess if you're white, you can't relate to any black characters 🤷
And thats a good point, "light and dark" doesn't equate to skin color or racism at all. If an orc id depicted as dark grey, is is supposed to be "black coded" opposed to one that was pale? Its such stupid reasoning
lol I always connected with characters through their morales and choices… so glad I was raised in the 90s
Wait, if that true, why isn’t it equally narcissistic to demand that everyone be white to reflect a majority white audience. Can THEY not see themselves in character unless they’re white? Seems like some covert white supremacy to me.
@@actaeondiomedes4270 Those you speak of who demand that for those reasons is it’s own issue.
I think fantasy pre existing universes should remain as a writer intends. If the writer didn’t include enough diversity in its lore than find a new story to enjoy.
This rebuttal to her blatant racism and gaslighting was truly a masterpiece. Thank you for producing this.
What's racist is taking a HUGE series of works about Middle Earth in which the color of elves' skins is never mentioned and calling it "WOKE" if the show doesn't make them all white. Meanwhile you never mentioned all the bigger flaws in Peter Jackson's trilogy, e.g. that Aragorn is racially unable to grow a beard, or that far more characters are supposed to have raven hair.
Even if we want to pretend that the characters should all look like the cultural tropes Tolkien was reading a lot when he invented them--and we should NOT pretend this--then all the dwarves in all the adaptations should have looked like dark-skinned Semitic peoples--so, like Syrian Jews. Never let me hear you call this author "racist" until I see YOUR old essays about how racist the white dwarves were in the horrendous Hobbit trilogy. Didn't write any? No? Then shut up, you hypocritical gaslighting racist.
@@d.m.collins1501 elves skin is never mentioned? He literally says they have the fairest skin. I stopped reading at that point because you clearly haven't picked up a book and you're just making stuff up to suit your own narrative
@@d.m.collins1501 What is even worse is lying to people to try and justify your viewpoint. From Tolkiens published works "They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.". Also, Tolkien based the Elves on Nordic mythology and was writing a mythology to replace the one that was lost to Britain. So yes, he said and thought that Elves were white.
@@d.m.collins1501 dear mr idiot, "elf" in germanic languages means "white beeing" Tolkien as a linguist knew about this and thats how they are described in the actual basis which Tolkien drew from for his works. Please take your bad faith argument and search for another popular fandom which you can attach yourself to, so you can make up your lack of character, Thank you.
@@loz1991 don’t pay attention to IDIOTS…
Tolkien was a preserving history, a mythology, and a linguistic structure that was on the verge of vanishing. These idiots are cluesless because they're too shallow to to see how deep the water is. I'm not the biggest fan but ever since I read the Lord of the Rings series as a child, I've always had respect for the immensity of his work.
P.S. good to see this back up.
Well he was. But he was even more into inventing expanding and creating new myths. We are talking about a man that came up with the elves to fit the languish he had created in his head just for fun... It takes a special kind of madness to be like that, in a good way.
@@larsgadell5016 I agree. There is an interesting story way back where someone said the ring of power was like the atom bomb. And Tolkien was Furious. Because his Works had nothing to do with our petty politics. I haven't researched the story but it sounds like him.
@@theobstinategentleman4094 He hated allegory with a passion. He conceded his own beliefs and experiences bled into it but he created nothing to represent any one real thing.
@DOOM Dragon Goblin Slayer Trinity Which is why he said that. But the fact still stands it wasn't supposed to be No Mans Land.
@@theobstinategentleman4094 yep, that's TRUE.
I'm so tired of everything being racialized. Seriously, this is exhausting. The same people that do this are the real racists.
All by design sadly and they are just getting started. Star wars is going to be the only place to go now that Disney was forced to get rid of the one who purposely screwed it all up so badly and cost the share holders such in losses.
Chis - Indeed
Exactly, @Chris Holman. And in the end they are planting the next generation racism.
those ppl have deep mental issues, like they need to attack or create drama to stay in a constant victim mentality, this is sad bcuz its abt entertainment the total opposite from drama and an escape from it...those ppl jsut cant be happy especially seeing others being happy.
@@muratigentijan8911 I think you are describing Borderline Syndrome with a mix of Narcissism
Amazon have missed a real trick, they could have pleased everyone if only they had taken the time and effort to build upon the world Tolkien created.
As you pointed out in the video there is a whole area to the south & East that wasn't ever fleshed out by Tolkien, stories waiting to be told, of races of men barely mentioned.
As a fan I would love to hear more of how these races developed, their histories. We know two wizards, the blue wizards travelled to these lands to foster rebellion against Sauron's forces.
This is where Amazon should have taken their story.
An excellent suggestion! Something that can take on a life of its own w/o "fandom" crying like children, because there is so little known/told about these places. Let your imagination go.
I get what you're saying, I'd love to hear about these places too. I've always wondered.
@@v.e.7236 You're literally just talking about making something original. Why do we have to expand on a dead man's fantasy world and why aren't people making compelling world's of their own more often? I mean the kind of world's equal to the works of Fantasy like Tolkien's? I think we've let our culture's revitalizing force get squashed by the need for power in politics. You can see this with how our best musicians are often homeless or isolated. While the most successful movies in history are always squashing political garbage that's meant to dishearten and demotivate and agitate political opposition.
Artists who are lucky enough to go to school are told ALL art's political. I think this honestly has more to do with the US if anything. But the secular world tends to confuse their military leaders with spiritual leaders. So people who win elections become ideologues in order to become elected. So when artists are told all art's political they're talking about this relationship.
But real art is a work of Love. And Love can be more powerful than the Oval office. It inspired the legends and myths and stories we all grew up loving. Peter Pan for example was created for the orphans the writer visited. My favorite books are the Redwall series, which are fantasy books that were written for blind children. Lord of the Rings was written for the English people in general. Tolkien wanted to transmute the horror's of his experience in WW1 and the ever expanding industrial world into a story that could help people remember the heart of the English culture (that was the Shire) the orcs were industrializers who were on the opposite end of Middle Earth from the Shire. Tolkien probably thought the industrializers were more orcish than anyone. WW1 had been an industrialized war. He loved nature too. He based Treebeard off of his friend CS Lewis.
There's a million other examples. The Great Michelangelo sculped David as his vision for the most ideal man. Artists are told this was because he was gay. They reduce Michelangelo's genius to that of a lustful thought. In Truth what he really did was attempt to bring out the highest aspects of man, He could have been gay, but what he was doing was sculping a vision of his Love towards his peers. He was telling men everywhere that this is what you could become. He was telling people that men had a divine essence and weren't just dogs in heat. Nowadays we only hear about how evil arrogant and evil men are. How oppressive they've been and how brutish they've been. So you can't have a gay man love men in other ways save the most obvious way that distinguishes them. It's truly insulting I think and these arrogant rats don't care about that because they receive likes on Facebook.
All great works are to love people, not lecture them or shame them. Yet here I am. Haha Sorry for the rant.
On a brighter note, I think a day is coming we see real art be made.
@@anothercat1300 Wow another redwall fan, I don't come across many people who have heard of Redwall, let alone fans, I loved the series when I was a child and they had a huge influence on the person I am today. I didn't know that they were written for blind children though, to be honest I don't know much about Brian Jacques, my bookshelf is half full of his works though :)
i came here to say this reguarding the amazon series. i dont understand why they would randomly sprinkle in black or other race characters where there arent any. it doesnt make sense and feels super lazy. id like to have seen how represntations of african or other cultures manifested in middle earth interact with the rest of the world
My mother raised me on movies like LOTR and I’ve encountered actual racism. Not once did I nor have I ever looked at an orc, demon, etc. and thought it was supposed to be a representation of me. She and people like her need serious help.
It is a representation of people like them. Not for their race though
@@Alex-bk8tn I aware, but some people will completely disregard that and go straight to the appearance trying to make it out to be something that it’s not.
@@batmanlikespizza2541 oh I know. I was just making a joke about those people being evil; moral busybodies
@@Alex-bk8tn 👍
Those orcs seems to be hot mess, some people in the shards of the USSR legit think that LOTR is a metaphor for WW2 with USSR being the Orcs, Nazi Germany - Saruman and his gang and British being idk elves? hobbits? not sure. And those people are not a fake fans, they read the books, watched the movies, made cosplay and linguistic studies based on them and still genuinely believe this bullshit.
Had a conversation with someone the other day who said he was the biggest star wars fan, but hated all the star wars movies George Lucas had written or directed because he was terrible at writing and directing but loves the new sequels and insists I was a toxic fan. Im starting to suspect he was indeed not the biggest star wars fan
I submit that if you “hate the George Lucas Star Wars trilogy,” you can’t really be a Star Wars fan.
The prequels and sequels were mediocre at best.
@Retro Games The prequel trilogy at least least to the Clone Wars series, arguably some of the best writing in StarWars. The Sequel trilogy is being put in a place where it can be low-key erased from cinematic canon.
What does that tell you?
Jifykid I see that same thing with Star Trek as a long time Star Trek fan.
Here’s how you correct that person. Tell them that what they mean to say is “I am the biggest *Disney* Star Wars fan” because Disney Star Wars is not Star Wars. There’s a huge difference. Only certain parts like the ones created by Dave Filoni are even remotely Star Wars.
That guys not a fan, he's just some fool who jumped on the Disney SW bandwagon
Episodes 1-6 to me are masterpieces and I'm forever glad for the world that George Lucas created
I’ve become fascinated over the last few years over the idea that a character has to look like you in order for you to identify with them. Growing up the only time I saw Hispanic people on TV was when I watched Walker Texas Ranger and America’s Most Wanted. Somehow my fragile ego was able to survive. Possibly because while characters didn’t look like me I could understand their motivations and flaws, and could see aspects of my personality in theirs. Just a thought.
Totally weird, isnt it?
A+ comment!
I appreciate you.
Yeah that’s a good thought. Most people go through more struggles or life choices than racism and I think with some characters you can relate well even if they have a different skin color or ethnicity
Peculiar, innit, mate? I can't possibly imagine identifying and relating to characters who don't look like me. 🗿
This is similar to feminists getting in a twist over the small number of female characters in the books, which as a young girl reading the books never once occurred to me to be an issue. Tolkien chose quality over quantity with his female characters, and made all the members of the fellowship so humanly relatable in the most basic ways that race and sex didn't matter. I'm not an elf but I can still relate to legolas, I'm not a man but I can still relate to Aragorn, if a story and characters are good (as in the case of the LOTR) you should be able to enjoy and relate to the story regardless of personal identity. Long story short, identity politics ruin stories and make you and everyone you inflict them on miserable.
What counts as identity politics though?
Yep, Eowyn was great. I feel like they actually did a disservice to the character in the Jackson films by making everyone just kind of shrug and nod that she was along, making allowances and the like. In the books she had to hide that she was a woman and be just as hard as the men to pull it off, wearing armor just like them... A real 'Mulan'-like situation, if you will. I won't say that the Jackson film is 'bad' on this front, I will say it is less powerful.
I remember my biggest issue with the LOTR trilogy was the portrayal of the Gondorian soldiers and how they were made to simply be cannon fodder for the orcs. I fear in the near future, I'm gonna miss those days.
Yeah, the Swan Knights were absolute badasses in the books, wish we could have seen them on screen.
@@lordfrostwind3151 gotta be honest here. I'm not a Tolkien fan. I have never read any of the books. My only connection to the Tolkien lore are the movies. But I didn't need to read the books to be annoyed at how weak the Gondorian army was portrayed as. It was pathetic. And when I found out how much they kicked ass in the books, my disappointment only increased. My solution for this isn't to make Gondor soldiers invincible or anything. Just turn them into soldiers that can put up against the orcs instead of making them the Stormtroopers of the LOTR franchise.
The problem is that the Gondorians were mostly badass in "off page" moments. The ground their army took, and held, was primarily referenced rather than seen. The vast majority of their direct action seen in the books was during the losing battles towards the end of the Ring War. That doesn't make them terrible, rather it shows the enemy's terrible power.
Oh, Biden will turn this shit into the good old days! You watch him....
Tolkien's response to the actual nazi had me rolling. Just disassembling the argument.
He destroyed their arguments before they got a chance to make them ^.^
Truly a legend, that man.
definitely qualifies as a class act.
One of the best examples I've seen of a man being given the verbal back of the hand.
Actually thoughts on this subject have changed.
Nearly all European languages are now considered Indo.european, as in Aryan.
Sanskrit and Latin are sister languages. Ironically almost everyone is of Aryan descent.
@@Impericalevidence wasn't it spelled different or something?
Anyway, the Nazi Aryan thing was about descending from the noble norse or some crap, and had nothing to do with the real group that was coincidentally called that as well.
I'll say it again: Dr.King said to judge the content of character, not skin color.
I do not need Black skin Aragorn to think Aragorn was badass, I don't need brown skin Samwise to see how bold and a true friend he was.
And there was dang sure nothing about the Orcs that identified with me as a black man to make me think they are me.
Exactly. That was almost hurtful to br as a black male. Why are we being compared to orcs?
There are literally black people in lore. They just don't play a huge role in the story is all
@@e.m.p.3394 probably because they lived somewhere else on the planet as the books were Tolkein's response to the lack of Anglo-Saxon Mythology and therefore take place in (an alternate) ANCIENT CELTIC EUROPE.
@@ABurntMuffin I know right! And honestly I see nothing wrong with that. Lotr and the other pieces of lore took place in a "white" dominated part of the planet. What's wrong with that?
As someone else said somewhere else in the coments it’s really telling that this lady and people like her complain about bigots and negative stereotypes and yet she herself is the one comparing herself to orcs. It’s so bizarre.
@ajnapalm: Nailed it. I have identified with men and women of all ages and ethnicities because of what they're going through, what they're feeling etc., not because of their physical similarity to me :p
Tolkien served as a codebreaker in WW2. He literally helped in the literal fight against racists. His two sons picked up rifles and fought the Nazis. That some pale elbowy post modernist coward hiding behind a keyboard could accuse such a man of racism speaks volumes.
Well, yes and no. "In the run-up to the Second World War, Tolkien was earmarked as a codebreaker. In January 1939, he was asked to serve in the cryptographic department of the Foreign Office in the event of national emergency. Beginning on 27 March, he took an instructional course at the London HQ of the Government Code and Cypher School. He was informed in October that his services would not be required"
White man say racism bad, hooray. People of color say racism bad, WHY YOO BEING AN SJW
Wow. Good point. This video discusses a major interpretation of Lord of the Rings. Another major interpretation compares the story to WWII. Tolkien himself was irked by this. So he explained that was a case of application as opposed to allegory. In this application, Sauron and his forces are like the Nazis while the hobbits, men, elves and dwarves are like the Allied Forces. Even the word fellowship is similar in meaning to an alliance. Since the fellowship is obviously depicted as the good guys, it makes the story seem like pro Allied Forces. So it makes sense that Tolkien's sons fought in WWII. I never knew about the contributions the Tolkien family made in WWII. That is so cool. I knew J. R. R. Tolkien fought in WWI, and that influenced his depiction of war in his books. I guess WWII makes him the Bilbo in Lord of the Rings. He is an older veteran of the previous generation, and he fought in an earlier war.
Also the man fought in WW1. In the trenches of the horrible war, he wrote the first lines of The Hobbit, another story that shows how companionship and friendship can be built between different races of inhabitants of MiddleEarth. Though Tolkien vehemently always said that there was no allegory to be found in hos work, but of course the experiences of his life influenced him. When you look at the very core of his stories, it is about fighting evil, both externally and internally, and realize that you can't necessarily do everything alone, that you are stronger when united. How's that racist?
Don't get me wrong: I don't know if Tolkien was a racist or not. I am not saying he was. But him serving in the defence of his country against German aggression isn't any proof for him not being racist. You can be a racist UK nationalist and fight the Nazis because you don't want your country to be occupied by a foreign force. You might just do it because you're a conscript and not because of any particular worldview you have. You might just be a racist but not agree with the rest of national-socialism. You might be a racist but not as radical as the nazis. You might just like being a soldier. There were surely many racists in the british military at the time as basically any man (and some women) of approppriate age in the UK were part of the military at the time. By your logic, racism among uk men stopped to be a thing when and because most men joined the military. That makes no sense.
7:31 My jaw dropped at how eloquently Tolkien said "F-off".
He was kind of a chad like that
@@Ismael-kc3ry, yeah.
Tolkien was a master of the English Language.
Well, he wasn't a professor of language for nothing ;-)
His son was the same. He published his father's work and added essay's to his father's essays.
As a gay man I can say there is no reference to any character being gay. I don’t want gay representation in this show because Tolkien does not present it in his work. I am still able to love Tolkien’s work and relate to the characters.
Stop being reasonable. WTF is wrong with you?
Apparently being able to identify to a character that is slightly different than you is impossible...
I dunno, I was always shipping Gimli and Legolas. Not to mention Frodo and Sam.
Wow. It almost sounds as if your sexual preference isn't the only aspect of your personality. Odd.
I kind of appreciate that, though. Not specifically gayness, but that sexuality as a whole is mostly left out. I feel like we live in a culture that can’t tell a good story so they just inject sex into everything for attention. If you have a good enough story, who is sleeping with who is not the most important part of it.
My best friend in high school used to say he had never suffered racism in his life. Some college students tried to convince him otherwise and to show him that "racism is everywhere". It didn't even last a week, the guy called me pissed off and said that all this "micro aggression" paranoia made him fall into an anxiety spiral. From that point on, he decided to abandon all that stupid ideology and focus on bettering himself. He got a girlfriend and started his own business, all working out for him so far.
Your friend used his smarts and broke out from the attack ( Yes it's a real attack , well funded and planned and implimented across the media , movies , education etc ) Do not forget , you and your European Traditions , Heros etc are the real Target . As a European you must have nothing , unless it's the approved version of reality . If they allow you to have strong hero's and Myths etc , your children may grow up to be confident and have strength and even a love their Traditions and people .
@@parabot2 ahh, what? Nah dude, Arabs dont hv much myths too, russians as well. Its not a planned attack on europeans, nahh
@@zeyadalbadawi8774 When you see Patterns , that tells you something is up . Attacks on everything from classic books to movies etc . This is happening in all western lands at the same time proves coordination on a mass scale . It's clealry a planned attack , not just sjw's and Karens , it's well planned funded and pushed via the media , again all proving coordination and big money .
@@parabot2 but why?
@@parabot2 there might be a pattern, but it‘s not a „planned attack“. Ever heard of Zeitgeist?
This is the most eloquent, logical and completely sensical shut down of this whole nonsense I’ve seen. It’s becoming such a drain isn’t it 😒🤷🏼♂️
Tolkien helped write the dictionary, when he uses a word he knows the EXACT definition of that word.
He knows the definition, the origin, and its different iterations throughout time. I mean, he created his own language after all. Like, a real, learnable, usable language. Tolkien may very well be the greatest linguist of all time
He also 'invented' the modern way to spell the plural of dwarf. The rebuke letter he wrote to the publisher is awesome, you should look it up some time.
"Post Jim Crow"
Would she prefer pre Jim Crow?
🤣🤣🤣Touche.
As a Brit I really appreciated him pointing out that my country never had Jim Crow laws and that they were a purely American phenomenon. I can't tell you how annoyed I get by the racist SJWs assuming that the US is the entire world, it isn't and the UK isn't a racist country we just don't want our culture destroyed by racists pretending to be the good guys.
"Given the length and Tolkien's writing style (more history book than fantasy novel),"
That line alone just proves she doesn't want to be a fan, she wants to be a consumer and, apparently, a dictator.
Wouldn't you have to have some history to progress the story. I mean was it because it was not destroyed in the past. (The One Ring).
I’m so happy to know there’s sane people still in the world, thank you!!
I’m a straight white male so I’m probably wrong by default, but when I was little I loved and wanted to be static shock. Didn’t matter that he didn’t look like me, I thought he was cool. I don’t have pointy ears and can’t walk on top of snow, but watching lord of the rings got me into archery because I wanted to be like legolas
I wanted to be Rogue... Im certainly not a caucasian mutant southern belle. Didn't matter though.
I still wanna be iron man. At least have his intelligence and one of his suits
Static Shock was a boss!
You think being a straight white guy means your opinion means less? Lol what fucking planet are you on
@@th-ck9vl Hate to say it, but in today's society, being a straight white male is an automatic cause for scrutiny and hate. Some places don't have it as much like here in Wyoming but in bigger population centers and the internet (like twitter and Facebook) it's a huge thing. It's all bigotry and fascism hiding behind an anti-racist and anti-fascist cloak. Us straight white males are deemed responsible for all the negative in the world and nothing will change their minds.
If you’re a black fan of fantasy than growing up you’ll remember that the lack of black people in the works was a running joke among us. “Damn there aren’t ANY black people in Middle Earth!?” That was always followed by a bunch of laughs i.e. no one was really offended by it.
Then you get older and learn the concept of the individuals portrayed on screen and their appearance being a reflection of the settings that the works are based off of, to JSG’s point. At that point it all makes sense and even a genuine curiosity as to a lack of black characters has been legitimately answered.
Most popular/well known fantasy works are based on medieval settings. The characters are going to be white 🤷🏿♂️. Shit still goes fucking hard 💪🏿.
P.s. I’ve never looked at Orcs and thought “Oh there’s the black folks!” That isn’t how I view me and mine
P.s.s Tolkien was an avowed anti racist...if ole girl was actually a fan and actually cared about this issue she would have taken the time to learn that ✊🏿
I agree. And if you're gonna have us black people in this medieval fantasy setting, make it realistic. Have them come from a place. Realistically these stories take place where white people live. That's just it.
@@e.m.p.3394 exactly homie
E.M.P. 339 Yep, just like I wouldn’t expect white people to be in a movie about Africa in 500 AD.
This is why I CANNOT stand fake fans, especially in the world of Tolkien's middle-Earth!! They find something that they "like", and when confronted on how big of fan they are (probably getting educated on the actual lore from the books [since they never read them]), then super pissed when they get called for lying about the characters that everyone loves! But, this is what Hollywood has created, and echo chamber of people who THINK that they're right, when they aren't. Just the opinion of a straight white dude in the south.
@@susanmaggiora4800 *cough* ramesses 2 (y'know, one of the most recognizable names in Egyptian histoy and I'm pretty sure Egypt is still in north Africa) was a literal ginger.
This gentleman is more then just some guy. He’s a hero of fandom.
HERO
The hero we need.
Excellent and beautiful breakdown, thank you. I don't get how if there were white-washing of an obviously African culture (Black Panther was a perfect example), there would be major upheaval. Yet black-washing of a distinctly Anglo culture is overlooked or somehow expected. This has become even more topical recently with Rings of Power and I appreciate true fans coming to the forefront on this.
"No One Cares"
That is the one phrase that no activist or SJW can bear to hear...
As I said not even oldschool Warhammer Fantasy fans would be up for this. The Dwarvish language has no swear word for this.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KILL DA STUNTIES!!!!!!!
This one's definitely going in the book!
Maliketh the Witch King of the Dark Elves shall burn their hordes on the back of his black dragon while war hydras eat the remains.
@@arandomguardsmen a gentleman of taste and distinction
*raises glass*
Someone needs to put these people in the Great Book of Grudges. Anyone have any suggestions for what the payment owed should be?
did she not watch even just return of the king?
"id never thought id die fighting side by side with an elf"
"or what about side by side with a friend?"
"aye,...I could do that"
I know this is a completely different, fan-made franchise, but even Talion (a white as hell white guy) starts making interesting friends with some of these orcs, if she wants to complain that some LotR videos games represent orcs in a bad way.
@@Whimsy3692 I wouldn't exactly call it friendships, rather shaky alliances haha
This lady wants to be the star in her own story, hope she can write that and hope it does well for her.
By all means, add Tolkien’s works to the long, long line of wrecked stories, film franchises and other mythos to be “platforms” for Woke’d Up, Intersectional-ized and Representation-tastic current day virtue signaling. I’m sure THIS TiME the result with actual fans (paying customers) will be different than Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, et al. Especially with Bad Robot on board.
(Weary sigh) We’ll always have Peter Jackson’s LOTR. Just make sure you’ve got it on physical media.
Also the books. No one can change my physical copy of LOTR, Unfinished, Silmarillion, Children of Hurin etc. Amazon can go suck an expletive deleted..
hunterkiller1984 Absolutely. I made it my mission to find secondhand or used VG condition copies of the same PB versions I read in the 80s. Ebooks can be a convenience, but physical is necessity.
@@coreydb3549 I agree. Also nothing beats the comfy feeling of sitting down with an actual book with a drink.
All the comments left my head spinning. I can't tell who's talking about who, what are the comments about, or, why am I wasting my time on this. EVERY person has an opinion, until they cross the fine line of their experience, into calling others names, and GUESSING their motives. Sorry now, I even tried to have a conversation.
"Don't let the Gates of Moria hit you on the way out"
Absolutely brilliant video. I get tired of telling people that Tolkien did not describe orcs in any detail. He did not describe anything in any detail except hobbits and landscape. When I read LotR as a kid, I had a hard time picturing orcs - my mental image was of some decidedly non-human "goblinoid", short, with long elf-like ears, a stooped shambling walk. I remember orcs being described as a "parody of elves", so I assumed short, ugly elves. If someone reads LotR and thinks "orcs are black people" then perhaps they are the racist.
Imposters :" We don't have enough POC representation in comics"
Milestone Universe: Apparently I must have been a joke to you as, NONE OF YOU F*CING BOUGHT MY BOOKS!!!
@@613harbinger316 For the time his was one of the most original powers I'd ever come across. The face off between him and Wise son was epic. That said, I'm sure it was the imposter that faced off with him (Against Wise Son). Damn, my memory is mush, it's been that long.
Imagine trying to reboot the guy with flame powers in blood syndicate today. His name and attitude would really get some heads spinning. Not including name here because some words definitely get your comments deleted by susan's ai filters
@@kangkong6795 OMG Could you imagine the response??!! damn!!
@AztecAmerican To quote a certain wise old philosopher when it comes to these types, "There's just no pleasing you then."
Bravo!! Tolkien would be proud with the eloquence with which you defended your position.
I usually do not comment on many things but had to speak up and say how much I loved this video. I loved the way you broke it down point by point. Fans like you give me hope that one day this distortion of all fandoms will stop and we can all go back to just enjoying the works as they were meant by their creators.
Just like I watched the trilogy again when it got another cut, this was worth a second viewing.
The theatrical version or the extended edition cut?
@@Megatron_95 Extended, of course
I was confused at first seeing it posted with a new date because I was sure I'd seen it before but ALL of JSG's videos are worth repeated viewings.
🔥
And a third ... and a fourth and a fifth. You know what, it’s worth every viewing
"I've read the Silmarillion, Lord of the Rings, and the Hobbit every year since 2003"...And I believe it. Dang brother. You are a Fan! Respect
There are some who read LOTR every Lent, to remind themselves that the world is decaying, and coming to an end.
Same here.
I've read The Lord of the Rings every year since 1977.
@@craiga2002 Also known as diagnosed Schizophenics kek
@@jacobbatchelor7877 AKA believing Christians, which is what Tolkien was. There is also entropy to be considered.
Going after Tolkien is probably one of the most fruitless pursuits, since his narrative was pretty much airtight. The only things we don’t fully understand are purposefully shrouded in mystery, and he includes a large wealth of races, cultures, and languages in his world-building.
A lot of "fake fans" also don't understand how deep the Lore goes.
Even the films had to be revised, edited and taken artistic liberties with.
You cant watch the films, state your a fan and then when people start talking about the history of Bombadil, the line of kings, what a flet is and the difference between the Eldar and Avari through your toys out of the pram.
The above is also some of the most basic LOTR knowledge that the films can't really portray.
They could have expanded upon those areas, also a great way to include diversity by exploring Harad or the Easterlings, even if not that just make your diverse characters travellers, agents, or refugees from these areas. Maybe the prince of a kingdom which fell to Sauron, living in exile? Compelling, and faithful to the bloody lore. What we got is a disgrace!
Why are everyone dabbling in identity politics so one-dimensional? Their race, gender, or sexuality is their ENTIRE personality. They are like living caricatures.
“Don’t let the gates of Moria hit your ass on the way out.” Worth watching the whole video just for that line.
I grew up watching a lot of Chinese kung fu movies. NOT ONCE did I ever think I was not represented in those movies. I still identified with the characters even if they didn't look like me.
What? You never saw Enter the Dragon where Bruce Lee kicks Chuck Norris' @ss?! That Chuck Norris character is SUPPOSED TO BE YOU! HAHA!!
Can you imagine Orcs going to Sauron and saying "Orcs lives' matter" and then go on strike? That would be pretty good.
Actually, I'd pay money to watch that!! You know, shake up the franchise a little...
Would be Funny. But Sauron didn't really care about the orcs. Only realized there usefulness. But never trusted them. And usefulness is questionable. That's why he want Haradrim. Variags of Khand. And Esterlings. To do his bidding. And Far Harad would of most certainly had Black people. And Orcs weren't black people. They were a mixture of races. As they were mostly slaves. Captured from everywhere. God Karen's are ridiculous. I love Tolkien and his Work through. Pure Genius.
Nehemiah Harrington. Thank you for that. 👍
Lmao "Looks like meat's back on the menu boys"
An idea, that people of Gondor would go for strike for the same reason, is even funnier.
Good job calling her out. The fact that you detest and defy fake narratives has earned a sub.
At 8:33 Just Some Guy seems to accept this ridiculous assumption that Tolkien's description of orcs was "devoid of logic or reasoning" whereas Merry and Pippin's conversations with Grishnákh during their abduction gives great insight into his motives and reasoning.
"More a history book than ..." yeah, girl, you clearly have zero experience in medieval literature writing styles which is exactly what Tolkien, because he was a freakin' _professor_ in this field, based his style on. Story/structure driven and characters as means to tell that story. It's a style that sadly went out of fashion long ago and as a phd in medieval lit, for me eading Tolkien is like coming home. He really managed what few or even none have managed since: telling old stories in new coating but deeply rooted in old storytelling techniques.
Listening to this in the barracks.
My black squadmate, a huge LOTR fan, is switching to and fro between laughing his ass off and gaping in disbelief at some of the articles you quote.
Keep it up!
Wait what.... what??!!!
I'm Peruvian and I think it's not normal to obsess about the skin color of fictional characters. I'd even say that it sounds scary...
Tolkien is my favorite writer. The Silmarillion is my favourite book ever, and his work, as well as his thoughts and views on writing (such as in "Mythopoeia", "On Fairy-Stories") are what I identify the most whenever I imagine or dream about worlds of fantasy. And I don't think I need to be white or for him to have had someone with "brown skin" in his works to somehow "have or feel that I have the right to identify myself" with the characters... It sounds like an aberration, to say the least!
I'm also a Catholic as Tolkien was, but even that isn't something that normally crosses my mind whenever I read his works...
I think today's media and politics are convoluted enough, for me to on top of it want to project some... kind of thing onto the stuff that in the first place I already enjoy and that make my life better, that support me and help me endure, specially during THESE TIMES.
Professor Tolkien was a great man and I really can't stand such horrible takes and forced misinterpretations on his work...
Sorry, I had to take it out of my chest. I think your video and view on this topic is quire centered and reasonable in itself... I just can't believe there are people with such distorted way to see things. I can't imagine myself thinking everyday that anything or anyone surrounding me is my enemy, when there's no justification at all. When it's that person's fault, not the author!
Such great and underrated comment :)
I m very happy to hear about still another place where Tolkien got fans. And that feels good :)
I m from Poland and I m glad to be of catholicism descent even though my adventures with religions were not as smooth as being a catholic all my life :)
I must say that as much as I consider myself European with 95% of Slavic DNA and with my ancestry coming from at least 6 countries of Europe I guess that most of my knowledge about being European I have learned actualy from interesting in Tolkien's books and in books which inspired him.
I sincerely recomend you reading a nice little book
"Celebrating Middle-earth: The Lord of the Rings as a Defense of Western Civilization" - short and complete explanation of what is truely western and christian in Tolkien's mythology.
My view about Tolkien's ideas which were stored in his books and in his letters (his letters is great reading anyway even if the reader is not his fan) is that he was not against other cultures of course - he was against totalitarian regimes. Against devouring of our free individual choices by any political ideologies of total power and greed. Tolkien in his letters said that he is against "bowing to the Iron Crown". Which was IMHO his term for totalitarian regimes, for enslaving the world by one total indoctrination. The Iron Crown which was of course Morgoth's crown was - I suppose - Tolkien's metaphoric speaking of totalitarisms.
Stay true to your own small homeland and evigorate it with your work and your heart - dont bow to any totalitarian lunacy.
Warm Wishes from Polish Tolkienian :)
This video has aged very well considering "Rings of power" 👍
As long as they insist on fake diversity, have you considered auditioning for Galadriel?
i support a just some guy galadriel
All that JSG needs to do is to identify as a multi-sexual attack helicopter and the role is his. :p
Hey, that role is mine! There aren't enough overweight 46 year old white dudes being represented as elf women in media right now! Racism and sexism, probably!
"twisting things of another culture around them to suit their needs"
She's literally an orc twisting literature to suit her needs.
Whoa there don't insult orcs like that 😂
Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't call her an orc, that's insulting to the orcs.
You speak Elvish extremely, fluently well!! I just wanted to compliment that.
"So to fight racism, you built a racist community." That is an amazing statement of how hypocritical racists can be, and any side of any fence.
Tolkiens roast is something I did not know I want to hear. It is amazing.
The real turning point of Gimli and Legolas's relationship was after Galadriel gave Gimli 3 locks of her hair. A gift she denied her own uncle Feanor who ended up crafting the 3 Silmarils. Which ended well.
Edit- Damn man, your Elven is pretty good. Fingolfin drew his sword Ringil, that glittered like ice
I used to work in the receiving room of a major bookstore. The guy I worked with and I used to discuss LOTR and Star Wars lore all day, everyday. One of us was black - which one?
WHO THE FUCK CARES! It was some of the coolest discussions while doing work I've ever had.
According to SJW rules, if your co-worker was the Black one and you didn't notice he was Black, then that was Racist of you. Or vice versa. It's Racist to now simply judge someone based on the content of their character.
I know this feel.
I work with a guy, and when we start jabbering on about a given fandom we both share, we get on like a house on fire. We geeked out hard on a discussion on Pacific Rim for almost two hours after we clocked out. The first one.
We had a "did we just become best friends?!" moment when our geek-on turned to Big Trouble in Little China. And, despite neither of us being white or asian, you couldn't convince us otherwise, even with a gun to our heads, that it wasn't one of the best movies of all time.
Mutual interests and honesty leads to friendships…. Not skin color or genitals… and I actually laughed at your “WHO THE FUCKS CARES!!” Bravo my friend! I’d stand by your side at Helms Deep anytime.
I got the exact same story, except one of us was asian. You hit it spot on.
@@notatthistime3867 That's such an oversimplification of what happens, your description of it is inherently hostile and thus, the racism is sus.
Wow. So brilliant. Is it weird that I feel so humbled and grateful to hear such an eloquent defense of ango-saxon and nordic culture expressed in art? As if to appreciate such culture is in no way to exclude ANY fan, nor to diminish the beauty of all other human cultures, no matter whence they hail.
They tried to come for warhammer 40k and knitting weirdly enough.
I'm sorry, what now about knitting?
i'd love to see them go after 40K, since the obvious response is "You do realize everyone in this is kind of an asshole, right?"
The knitting one was worse
@@RogueFox2185 Well they find the Adeptus Sororitas problomatic as well because: 1. they are a bunch of religious fanatics despite the whole damn Imperium being like that; 2. Boob armour. Just don't let them know about Slannesh
They didn't try they just came, and the dust is yet to settle on that.
I know this is a re-upload but I'm still rewatching the whole thing.
on a side note though, as someone who's biracial (black and white) it makes me really sad to see that the modern African American culture is to only replace characters with black characters, go on Twitter and look up #blacktober. white people made original White characters and original black characters that people just enjoy, but it seems like the modern African American culture won't just make original characters as well, I'm sure that I would enjoy plenty of them. you don't have to take things away from people I feel like we all learned that as kids
But it is not about fairness it is about vengeance and sticking it to the man. It is just weird saw a heir to a multimillionaire walk around campus on this top end private collage chanting "we have nothing to lose but our chains" . You see privilege is not personnel it is race bound.
We would see more original black characters. But people that aren't always black have an obsession with doing shit like this. Maybe if they let more artists be creative and such maybe we'd see more new characters
@Admire Kashiri Just rarely, most of the time they simply racebend others. Or at least, recently.
I remember the anime community being really cautious with new fans five years ago. They were right to be concerned in my opinion
You’re supposed to relate to fake characters through experiences and feelings not because they look just like you or because you too have powers of some kind. Superman has always been my favorite superhero, I’ve never been able to fly tho. Lol. Black panther is awesome but I don’t have access to vibranium or a cool suit. I do however know shat it’s like to lose your father, I do know the feeling of wanting to help ppl. I do know how it feels to experience love. These are the things that matter, not having one of every type of ppl in everything. As far as tolkien, seeing ppl bitch about something helps you know they’re just pissed they aren’t near talented enough to produce such great works, just jealous and entitled.
Sjws and karens: exists
Orcs: "looks like meat is back on the menu boys!"
If only we COULD feed them to the Orcs.
Not even an ork would eat that dude to much soy..lol
@@ezrafaulk3076Nah feed them to eagles
@@lindylou538 Nah, eagles are too good for them.
Not a single monster in the Tolkien universe would want to eat that.
Maybe a Balrog would burn them to a crisp.
Amazon and the Karens can shove their new show, I have a half bookshelf of actual Tolkien books to read instead of watching their crap
“Every year since 2003” !? Holy shit, he’s gone full Christopher Lee level fan.
This video aged like fine vine... *cough* Amazon Rings of Power *cough*
"You had to have gone to college to say something that stupid."
Earned a sub with that line alone. Great video
Omg I hit the subscribe button after comment too!
I laught so hard at that sentence 🤣👍
“You can still like characters that don’t look like you.” Thank you. Dude, I have more in common with Hellboy personality wise than I do with Batman. I don’t have red skin, horns, a stone hand or a tail but I still relate to the character. I love eating candy and other junk food. I still pronounce pancakes as “pamcakes” like a doofus just like Hellboy.
Ain't THAT the truth, I'm a white guy, and I can name TWO black characters I like; Frozone in The Incredibles 1&2, and T'Challa/Black Panther in Black Panther, the LATTER movie, IRONICALLY, having a middle of the credits clip that delivers a VERY important message for our time. "The WISE, build BRIDGES, while the FOOLISH, build BARRIERS." These SJWs are building barriers wherever we try to build bridges; they're FOOLS.
I like Frozone because he's a cool guy, and he's a VERY good friend to Bob and Helen, AND is GLAD to help them with their kids; which NOW, is more important to see than EVER because it shows that blacks and whites CAN in fact be ACTUAL friends.
And I like T'challa because he's a good leader who really cares about his people and wants to do what's best for them; AND he invokes Martin Luther King Jr. by NOT discriminating based on race, which's WHY he fights M'Chakka to STOP him from forging a Wokandan Empire by arming incarcerated black CRIMINALS with Vibranium weapons, and ENSLAVING the whites M'Chakka calls their "oppressors", even though they had the SAME level of freedom as the whites, and ONLY lost it when they committed the SAME crimes that'd see a WHITE person's freedom revoked.
On a different note, it was also really COOL to see ACTUAL AFRICAN cultures represented on screen through Wokanda, which shows us that blacks DO in fact have cultures of their OWN, instead of seeing a European, Asian, or North or South American culture get BLACK WASHED, which suggests their nothing more than PARASITES leeching off white and Asian culture. The FORMER of these two needs to happen more often.
@@ezrafaulk3076 good luck with african mythology, the fake inclusives don't care about it. Shame, because i would enjoy a tv series about the Budas (were-hyenas) just as one example
@@stefanoputignano1555
A series about Anansi animated in the artstyle of Afro Samurai/Furi could be really cool.
Tolkien is right up there with Shakespeare as an idol of mine. Hate how people try to ruin something, because....just cause. Hate how this had to get reuploaded. Can’t imagine why TH-cam had to purge it, but they don’t need a reason as it seems
I'm waiting for them to complain about the complete lack of black representation in Shakespeare...
@@Ensign_Cthulhu They already have. But people throw sexism claims at Will, despite him having some of the best female characters of all time
@@Ensign_Cthulhu Do not worry british tv already "corrected" that, a few years ago I saw those movies called the Hollow Crown, they had a pretty impressive cast which was the selling point to me; in Henry IV one of the characters I think it was the Earl of Worcester was interpreted by an actor of color, the role was small anyway so it was not an important detail, then in Henry V one of the king's men was also interpreted by a person of color, I actually laughed when after watching the credits I realized this was no random soldier but the Duke of York, I did not find it funny due the inaccuracy not only to history but to the plays themselves but because that same character had appeared in the previous movie, as the english Duke of Aumale, interpreted by other actor, so in their odd internal logic at some point in the roughly 15 years from the end of Henry IV to Battle of Agincourt he somehow changed races, I guess he started identifying as person of color thus the change.
@@starkilr101 Which is crazy because one of Shakespeare's most iconic works is LITERALLY about a black man as the main star
It was always my understanding that the orcs and goblins appeared dark because they were dirty from living underground and not washing and also because of their dark clothing, not because they had dark skin. Also because they can't go out in the sun they are almost exclusively seen in dim light/darkness which makes them look dark by default. Tolkien described Gollum as "Darker than darkness" but we know he had pale sallow skin just like the goblins.
It's clear to me that when Tolkien references darkness in an individual it references a darkness of spirit. Light is a symbol of hope in Arda, whether it's the stars or the sun or the trees or the lamps and the bad guys are constantly trying to extinguish it. To conflate this idea of darkness with the literal darkness of skin shows a complete lack of intelligence and understanding.
Karen: "Dear Tolkien Fans, Black ppl exist"
me:
*"YEP, FOLCLORIC BASED STORIES AND CONTEXTS TOO"*
"Shape-shifting squid people vs Shape-shifting octopus people."
I suppose the author kept losing at Splatoon.
“Don’t let the gates of Mordor hit you in the ass”...dude I’m rolling 🤣🤣🤣
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.”
I’m guessing your the evil one
@@greenarrow. work on "you're" grammar, sweetums.
@@Null_Experis The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and racism. The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power”. (DR MLK JR)
Deep deep respect. I literally tested up and snorted with glee when you said “Oh you can call yourself a Tolkien fan....you’re not a Tolkien fan, you’re a Peter Jackson fan.”
You came, you saw, you slayed! 😂
"You had to have gone to college to say something that stupid."
So accurate!
And yet, I find that those who have no higher education often say some of the stupidest things possible. Hatred for education and the educated is destroying this country.
I mean we have our own mythology in africa, why not just use those rather than latch onto mythology you have no interest in
African myths and folklore outside of maybe Anansi aren’t really known here in the West. And it really is a gold mine for writers to drawn inspiration from.
Do you maybe have a recommendation to read about it or something? Im kinda interested:)
Plenty of authors do this already this woman has no clue about the following because she isn't a fantasy fan.
Charles R. Saunders
Imaro series
Book 1 Imaro
Book 2 Imaro: Quest for Cush
Book 3 Imaro: The Trail of Bohu
Book 4 Imaro: The Naama War
Nyumbani Tales
Dossouye duology
Book 1 Dossouye
Book 2 Dossouye: The Dancers of Mulukau
Abengoni: First Calling
N.K Jemisin
The Inheritance Trilogy
Book 1 The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms
Book 2 The Broken Kingdoms
Book 3 The Kingdom of Gods
The Dreamblood Duology
Book 1 The Killing Moon
Book 2 The Shadowed Sun
The Broken Earth
Book 1 The First Season
Book 2 The Obelisk Gate
Book 3 The Stone Sky
Marlon James
The Dark Star Trilogy
Book 1 Black Leopard Red Wolf
Book 2 Moon Witch, Night Devil (yet to be released)
Book 3 The Boy and the Dark Star (yet to be released)
Tomi Adeyemi
Legacy of Orisha
Book 1 Children of Blood and Bone
Book 2 Children of Virtue and Vengeance
Book 3 ???
Book 4 ???
Book 5 ???
Evan Winters
The Burning
Book 1 The Rage of Dragons
Book 2 The Fires of Vengeance
Book 3???
Book 4???
Nnedi Okorafor
Who Fears Death
The Book of the Phoenix
Binti Trilogy
Book 1 Binti
Book 2 Home
Book 3 The Night Masquerade
Ataka Witch
Zahrah the Windseeker
Rena Barron
Kingdom of Souls trilogy
Book 1 Kingdom of Souls
Book 2 Reaper of Souls
Maya and the rising Dark
Antoine Bandele
Tales of Esowon series
The Kishi
Sky Pirate Chronicle
Book 1 By Sea & Sky
Book 2 Of Ruin & Silk (March 2021)
book 3 For Code & Honor (yet to be released)
TJ Young & the Orishas
Book 1 The Gatekeeper's Staff (yet to be released)
An Orisha tale
Book 1 Will of the Mischief Maker
Milton J. Davis
Changa's Safari series
Griots: A Sword and Soul Anthology
Fallen
Meji Duology
Eda Blessed: A Ki Khanga Adventure
Priestess of NKu: A Ki Khanga Adventure
Amber series
Book 1 Amber and the hidden city
Book 2 Amber and the enchanted sword
From Here to Timbuktu
The Makurian (out 2021)
Tochi Onyebuchi
Beasts made of Night
Crown of Thunder
Suyi Davies Okungbowa
Godhunter
Son of the Storm (yet to be released)
Anthony Kwamu
Timbuktu Chronicles: Aida and the Chosen Soldier
Gregory Walker
Shades of Memnon series
Book 1 The African warrior of the Trojian war
Book 2 Ra Force Rising
Book 3 African Atlantis Unbound
E.O. Odiasa and K.N Pumpuni
The Last Warrior King
Book 1 A Cry to War
Book 2 A Dance For The Gods
@@laratamee2944 out of the list I gave I recommend Rage of Dragons (and the sequel that came out a few months ago), Kingdom of Souls (and the sequel which I am currently reading now) and the sword and sorcery series called Imaro this one I believe is getting a tv adaptation. And oh ye possibly Black Leopard Red Wolf but, be warned its very sexual and graphic that one but it gets very interesting im still waiting for book 2.
@@TalonsofWater many.authors have already tapped into the myths actually some are best selling authors now.
When you seek to be offended, you will be...don't twist everything to fit YOUR offenses. Don't touch my Tolkien!!
ITS NOT JUST YOURS. IT NEVER HAS BEEN AND NEVER WILL BE. POC FANTASY FANS HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED
@@actaeondiomedes4270 Tolkien was clear in his writing. If he intended a character to be, look , think, or behave a certain way they did. We should not disrespect him by writing in what he did not intend. And please don't use all caps, it's considered yelling and is not polite.
@@NeferLioness Not polite? I’ll tell you what’s not polite. Looking for every reason you can to exclude people like me. Being asked to perform extra emotional labor because my colored presence in your white fantasy world make you feel uncomfortable in ways you don’t want to unpack and address. Not polite is seeing the world as white by default and then getting mad at the people who aren’t. Not polite is using flimsy excuses to prop up thousands of years of exclusion and intolerance. Using Tolkien’s exact verbiage is just another rhetorical trick to avoid having to see and hear us. Why can’t you see that?
@@actaeondiomedes4270 what's causing you to sau "my colored presence in your white fantasy world "?
@@actaeondiomedes4270 to quote NeferLioness: "When you seek to be offended, you will be.."
I think you prooved her words to be right on the mark.