Attack of the Fake Fans
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Attack of the Fake Fans
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Art and Animation by Just Some Guy
Original trailer concept: FMA Brotherhood & Black Summoner
Music: "Enkon Hakuchuumu" by Sakagami Souichi - Copyright (C) 2015 Trial & Error/Sakagami Souichi All rights reserved.
Trial & Error: www.tandess.com... - บันเทิง
“The fact that you’re not bothered by the agenda, doesn’t mean it’s not there” Well said
An agenda you agree with is still an agenda.
I miss when escapist entertainment didn’t have a constant political agenda and just was fun.
True that is something else one person can look at you know but some people out there just don't really think that far out of the brain otherwise I gotta be emotional about everything :P
@@B0redom13 I miss it to
@@ahoramazda6864 it’s very much about the agenda. You can try and downplay its impact as much as you want, but it is VERY much about the agenda.
The way in which they label everyone they disagree with as "right-wing" tells me everything I need to know about them. They don't care about any of these properties they claim to love and are "actual" fans of; it's all about pandering to their own political ideology.
I agree. There is no more to it than this.
- "The Right"
All you needed to figure that was to see Organized Chaos going through Mauler’s Critique of MoM for an hour and then giving up after not finding anything about America Chavez’s two moms to accuse him of bigotry.
Sad but true.
"It is soo important to define concepts, right? Pepole need to know what something is before they use the word or concept abundantly and it loses it's meaning" - When they started with the premise of "defining fandom", the abundantly and widely used terms "right-wing" and "woke" came to mind.
As JSG says, the hypocrisy is strong with them.
Idk how dj expects anyone to take him serious when he is a grown man wearing a Neff SnapBack like he just got home from middle school.
I love it when people try to convince me I'm wrong by calling me childish and stupid.
Just means they have no real objections besides that they don't like it.
Works everytime 😉
Well that's just childish and stupid!
😁
Heh, it's the same with me being called an incel just for disagreeing with BS that's already been made an example in society.
If they can't rationally convince you or legally compel you, they'll ridicule and humiliate and shame you into abandoning your position.
If you cannot critique what you love, you aint a fan, you are a slave.
Which is the perfect world for companies, they are trying to make that happen.
Ooo getting all profound n shit
> balding
> middle aged
> out of shape
> discord owner
> high pitched nasally DSP voice
Checks out
Leave DSP alone! 😢
You mean 'check his hard drives' surely?
@@harbl99if it fits
🤣🤣🤣
"I can do no wrong" mentality. Can't forget that.
I’m pretty sure I’ve said it in these comments before, but I really wish they would just leave characters alone. Let Aerial be a white red head, let Astrid be Scandinavian, let Nani be Hawaiian. If you want a black, gay transgender character then go out and make one. Stop taking our shit, (meaning fans of our shit) and warping it to suit your wants and needs and desires. These characters ARE NOT yours. They’re mine, and my sister’s and everyone else’s who grew up watch, reading, playing and LOVING them. Exactly as they were created. To use the left’s own language, stop colonizing our fandoms.
If I'm a fan of a story and it's getting adapted I want the story to match as closely if not a one for one retelling...if the story gets run through a blender I just don't bother watching it
For real , using their own creativity isn't hard to make new characters . They're way to chicken sh*t to try, the Washing & Swapping been pure trash maybe they wanna piss off the fans
@@joezar33 or they don't have the ability to make new characters, especially characters that aren't a self-insert.
But evil cannot create. Only corrupt.
They make "characters" and they are as terrible as one assumes. That's because they don't care about storytelling. They only care about preaching their politics.
@@YumYum820I catch so much shit at work about the Marvel movies… Sayin that they’re good movies but shit comic movies is blasphemy…. I got told by a dude that’s read one comic before that “I don’t understand comics” because I said Hells Kitchen is one of the least campy places in Marvel and that using the titles that they use to sell movies is Clickbait….. It’s really not that bad though because they think Episode 7,8,9 made Disney money😅😂
Rings of Power was the big one for me. It is perhaps the most clear cut example of any IP that showcases "fans" who have completely lost the fucking plot, that pretend to like something because they've recognized a popular thing they can grift off of (Amazon's super fans lmao) or twist to their own ends. Even the casual fans come across as alien and demented.
I've seen shit like: "No I haven't read the Silmarillion, it's too dry. Anyway I liked Rings of Power because I'm a huge LOTR nerd, and RoP adds context to the stories and characters in the book"
Rejecting this person as a "LOTR nerd" isn't gate keeping. They're not even on the property, they went to the wrong fucking house instead.
lmao nice! nailed it
So all of twitter and Reddit. Whatever is the cool new hip thing, they just jump aboard, molest it, twist it into some Frankenstein monster that doesn’t even resemble the source material, and when it’s over, they’re gone, leaving real fans to pick up the pieces. It’s annoying.
If anything, these people are the true “anti-fan”.
good analogy about going to the wrong house :P
Rings of Power really cranked this up to 11 at least. When they couldn't convince the real fans that their stupid fanfiction didn't look anywhere near up to the high standards they knew they'd face when buying the damn IP, they went and hired a bunch of harry potter fans instead to pose as 'superfans' instead of actually listening to valid criticism.... They knew better, and the existing fandom was just gonna have to get with the program, damnit.
And somehow the problem was everyone asking how that isn't actually retarded when you think about it for all of 10 seconds....
ROP helped further expose how deep in the shill most mainstream entertainment critics are and those who like to think they are edgy and in touch with the fans (Collider and Screen Rant). All their shilly articles why ROP was secretly brilliant was just Turd Polishing. When that didn't work, they tried attacking fans calling them a dozen -ist and -phobe words to shame people into liking their turd. In the end, only 37% finished watching and many of those were watch parties there to roast it. An absolute failure! How this is getting a second season along with Velma is absolutely mind-boggling.
True fans are upset when something they love is ruined. Fake fans are fine with it, because they never loved it in the first place.
fr fr fr. Then, certain person in a film studio started the trend blame the fans who actually care and call them either A-holes, racist and bigots.
Underrated comment. I’m tired of casual fans saying I’m “just looking too much into it, it’s just a movie bro”
No. Just because you fail to see good quality doesn’t mean it’s all entertaining slop, films and stories mean something more than distracting people with colors and noises🤦♂️
Boom!!! Nailed it 💯
They would implode if they saw the pokemon fandom
Facts!
I've had my run in w these guys. It's always "rules for thee but not for me". They're jokes, to the full extend of the word.
Painfully true,I recall, Actual Fandom called Eric July A "Chunky Monkey" and his defense was he was trying to call him fat which makes you wonder what does the Monkey part imply 🙃
Extent of the word*
@thecouncilofbruh7854 Chunky Monkey is a very common saying, especially in the South, but it's definitely one you should think about before spitting out your mouth.
for sure
@@jurassicroom7673 I can see the phrase being used on anyone but my issue is because he preaches like Organized Chaos about being careful about saying things and to always say that racism is bad I hold him in higher standards in these cases. I hold those that preach a belief on higher accountability than a normal transgressors in those actions.
"People calling something bad when they haven't seen it. They just don't like the trailer."
Who made the trailer? The Studio made the trailer. The Studio thought these were the best bits of the show
“Don’t judge it based on the trailer!”
Then what is a trailer for, exactly? They literally exist to be judged.
Yup, yup!
Hell, even just seeing the names involved is enough for me these days to call something bad. I don’t need a trailer to know a Kathleen Kennedy project will be shit.
The phrase don't judge a book by its cover only applies to people, since the cover of the book is designed to be judged. It's there to get you to pick up the book and check it out so if it's bad, not one will bother. Luckily the cover also includes a synopsis on the back most of the time as a way to judge if you'd be interested in the story. Same thing with trailers. They're made to give a sample of the show or movie.
Plus it's not like we haven't seen the exact same patterns, plot points and characterisations hundreds of times over the decade informing our decisions based on the exact same information the studios are feeding us yet again for their latest repackage of "The Message".
What they are describing is cult behavior. Don't ask questions, just consume. Don't be critical, just accept. Don't disagree, just check your privilege. Where have we heard those ideas before ?
but that's the beauty. When other people do it, that's wrong. When they call for Jihad, it's for good reason. See the difference?
@@jamesneese7663beauty? It's ugly af
Well that's a good point… and kind of terrifying
I used to be in the academia - I’ve seen unmatched levels of hypocrisy from people who clearly know better! Nothing surprises me any more…
It's what happens when you’re in a position of never being criticized or confronted on anything you say or do.
@@613harbinger316 That’s for sure!
@@613harbinger316 Your mind is a toolbox and education is the process of acquiring and sharpening them. Using them however is a different matter altogether...
There is a reason wisdom and intelligence are separate stats.😋
@@BigBossBernie That is true. However, in better days, it was very difficult to succeed in the academia without using your education and intelligence appropriately, usually in interesting or innovative ways! But once academic success is merely a matter of parroting the right conclusions, wisdom, as well as a conscience, becomes nothing but an inconvenience!
Gatekeep the fake fans out. Easy as that. That is why fans show the fan stuff they have to be allowed.
I know gatekeeping is considered bad, but I kind of miss the days when fake fans were ridiculed relentlessly.
One of my closest friends is still against gatekeeping, in the sense of being concerned it won't just keep the shitheads out of it - I think there's a fairly obvious test of sorts; if they're impossible to correct on the lore and world building and just argue it's racist or accuse you of being toxic or whatever, they're a fake fan and should be made to feel unwelcome.
If they're legitimately new they'll be open to learning more about it.
@@MGShadow1989 yeah, imo most gatekeeping just kept fake fans out and genuine new fans were always excepted minus the occasional self righteous neckbeard on a power trip.
Agreed.
@@Zenthe_ The neckbeards on a power trip simply donned a shroud of good intentions and self righteous zealotry. Why just be a smug elitist prick when you can also con the drooling mob into thinking you're part of the moral majority.
*"Anti-Fans"* are the Hollywood writers
of today’s remakes of beloved franchises.
I love that fans are always blamed for being every ist or phobe for not liking a race swap or gay swap but the billion dollar corporation is never to blamed. And don't insult the corporation or elites; i.e. the cast and directors who insult you for liking it in the first place or hate that they can't make their fanfic of your childhood franchise, because then you're a bully attacking the little guy and you're toxic.
Very well put. But its such a strange situation isn't it
But but but if I shill and simp for them then maybe they'll invite me to their table.
the thing is that as long as the corporations bend the knee to activists, then they're "good" corporations. Corporations are only "bad" when they are either run by "conservatives" or bow to "conservatives'. Example: the same diverse and representation that panel extolled NEVER ACTUALLY SELL. Woke/sjws/liberals/activists are always online saying that comics need to be more woke, but they NEVER actually buy any comics, as we saw from Icemen to Jon Kent Superman to Tim Drake Robin titles. But because Marvel and DC are "woke", all the stuff they do from low wages to having abusers in their ranks to hiring toxic creators who are better at pushing away customers than attracting them, are completely ignored by media and whisper network.
@@lainiwakura1776 Didn't you hear? Only right wing Conservative corporations are evil apparently
"That's what the right does right?"
I thought we were talking about fandoms. Not poltics.
Just shows these people can't keep poltics out of anything.
Greatest example was the Sonic trailer who asked sonic to be "realistic" when people disliked the hell out of the trailer and talked shit out the design and guess what paramount fixed it
And because of that a movie that would have been a box office disaster got a sequel. And will likely get another one.
Wow, the amount of projection that last guy was shouting, he might as well put a mirror in front of his face.
GATEKEEPING WAS NEVER WRONG.
Gatekeep the bigots out.
The first thing any organism learns is to keep out what doesn't belong.
Honestly this is how I felt about the Cowboy bebop adaptation. On one hand I didn't want to hate it, but the cast comments soured my goodwill. Plus there is this idea that you can improve someone else's story with your idea that sounds pretentious. And then when they revealed that Faye was lesbian, they championed it as this great representation. All I could think about is how all they did was take someone else's creation and change it for their own story.
Its like walking up to a statue in a museum, busting out your chisel from home, and starting to mod it live in front of the curators, curious minds, and museum goers....while they have a tour guide trying to explain the original work.
And then going "HEY THIS IS MY VERSION OKAY" When the museum goers go "wait why is this happening? We were looking at the first one still."
Toning down Faye and ruining Green’s story were the greatest sins that Netflix Bebop. Faye is a con artist: she dresses provocatively to distract her mark. I could see her anime version doing it to a lesbian or even being gay/bi herself, but first and foremost she flirts to get her way. As for Gren, a trans TH-camr named Sophia Narwitz did a fantastic video on how Netflix Gren craps on trans people and the disabled compared to the anime version. Anime keeps winning on putting good stories first.
If the original Bebop version bothered them, they could have done a more sophisticated form of flirting, like Sophie on Leverage. But why? They are dealing with lowlifes and poor people, most of the time, and she is trying to fit in and be believable. So she is blatant.
And plenty of lesbians IRL are flirty and wear provocative clothes. But they always pick the least cinematic and dramatic options, nowadays.
"All I could think about is how all they did was take someone else's creation and change it for their own story." That's LITERALLY what us foreigners call "Americanization" of our folklore and fairy tales, simply because it's in the public domain. When we then ask for accuracy (and they could even HAVE the diversity if they applied it creatively) if they want to use it, they turn hostile and attack the VERY culture it is taking said stories from.
It wouldn't be so ironic if the same people who complained about the Lilo & Stitch live-action casting isn't also the VERY SAME PEOPLE who then argue why every OTHER single fairy tale had to be swapped in some way or another. Who's the "anti-fan community" now? (speaking about that "community")
Then there's what was done with Gren. 😭
"thats why they come after fans like us"
and there it is, the victimhood these folks are known for.
feel sorry for me, im a "victim"
Fans are passionate and contentious, but never toxic.
However, there is one subgroup of fans who engage in harrasment campaigns, doxxing, sending death threats to artists, creators, etcetera... They are unbelievably toxic, unwelcoming, go into petty arguments over anything, and are overall a bunch of stunted toddlers:
Twitter "fan" groups.
Calling them "fans" is being too generous. They are only interested in shipping characters.
@@DonVigaDeFierro Fanboys/Fangirls who spam and trolls bs 24/7 are toxic too. Whether it be in Reddit or Twitter, they're still unwelcoming.
@@DonVigaDeFierro ain't nothing wrong with shipping fictional characters. There are toxic fans and they span more than just Twitter. Shipping can be harmless and enthusiastic fun. Shipping is just one facet of fandom and not all fans are into shipping like others are. Don't paint with a broad brush, bestie
SOME PEOPLE NO! ATTACKING FANS,
Sports fans would beg to differ.
7:17 I’ve been attacked a bunch of times lately when commenting on a trailer - “How dare you criticize what the character said, if it might be out of context?”, or some nonsense like that! The reply: “The studio is the one that framed the context, so if they misled us, it’s on them!” usually misses the mark…
THIS
Passionate dislike is the flipside of loving something. You can’t get riled up over something you don’t have some investment in.
A true anti-fan, by definition, would ignore the subject entirely. An anti-fan could never be identified as such because they wouldn’t enter the conversation in the first place.
"The true opposite of love is not hatred, but indifference."
"Just cause you are fine with the agenda, doesnt mean that the agenda isnt there." Man that i soo good. Gonna remember that.
Just making sure that you read your comment again and really remember it.
You weren’t kidding about the “no charisma” part.
When I listen to some of these people, my brain just starts cramping. I am listening to them argue around their own statements.
14:40 It shows that they never listened to the people they are insulting! Many of the TH-camrs I’ve watched criticizing recent dumpster fires that bastardized beloved books and movies, repeatedly offered constructive and detailed suggestions for how the shows (or series of movies) could still be salvaged - suggestions that involved more care, thought, and talent than was on display in the product being criticized!
Exactly. As much as people bitch about Mauler or Drinker they do try to add constructive criticism into their work when they are critiquing something. Hell they'll even point out the good stuff they enjoy in the terrible media that is all too common these days
@@lordkrauserThat's why I trust Critical Drinker's movie reviews and recommendations. His Drinker Fixes segment makes me wish that he adapted the film instead.
It's funny that anyone thinks they're going to have the money to make these bombs. It's like the ever-announced and never-materialized fourth Kelvinverse Star Trek, they can proclaim forever that they're going to do it but the funding doesn't exist and the company will go bankrupt before they actually produce anything.
18:59 C.S. Lewis wrote about this. It’s far more childish to dismiss children’s media when you are an adult, than to accept it for what it is and still enjoy it. These weirdos are the ones calling other people childish and stupid for still enjoying media aimed primarily for children. Whenever a race swap or stupid political narrative gets injected, and you call it out, this is the reply: ”Why do you even care!! It’s made for kids!! Grow up!!”
The Hobbit is a children’s book. Would most people say that today? I don’t think so, because the language for kids has become dumbed down. The Hobbit has more eloquent writing and themes than many modern books made for adults.
Why did Pixar work so well in the beginning? Because both kids and adults could enjoy them.
“I am almost inclined to set it up as a canon that a children’s story which is enjoyed only by children is a bad children’s story.”
- C.S. Lewis
Ive always been of that mindset, whenever people use the "its made for kids" excuse to hand wave criticism. a good childrens movie is one that can be enjoyed by everyone, it doesnt talk down to its audience, it raises them up and is there with them to the end. these days its used to excuse bad writing and indoctrination under the guise of "made for kids".
I am assuming Lewis had access to much better children's entertainment then. I can read the jungle book and a dozen other books my father read when he was a child and a young adult, and derive immense enjoyment out of it. I read Robinson Crusoe as a child and loved it.
But I also loved the original tmnt and transformers shows as a child, and watching them nowadays gives me brain damage. They are that dumb.
Meanwhile, the 2003 TMNT show holds up much better, and Avatar, the last Airbender is an outright joy to watch even as an adult.
Quality matters. As long as we have so many people thingking that children are dumb and can be fed garbage, and "children's entertainment" is code for "simplistic trash", then no wonder we get idiots like the quartet in this video out of all that.
What bothers me about most fake “fans” I’ve encountered is that instead of saying they are new to the fandom and just being open and learning about the interest, they just gatekeep with their shallow or flat out wrong knowledge and drive out long time fans with their toxicity.
It’s happened to comics, movies, D&D and other table top games, and video games. It’s enraging.
This is why I tend to be a little leery about gatekeeping. I don't play WH40k because I can't afford the models and I don't have the space for them.
I've been reading the books when I can, and the lore? I'm at home. I don't want it to change because it's going to offend anyone. I love the lore. So far, my favorite legions are the Yellow Cryboys (the Lamentors--they have every reason to cry and I want to hug every one of them because GAT'DAYUM they've been through so much), and the Salamanders.
But someone who is new to a fandom--especially when it's as extensive as WH40k--who will trip up is also going to get some basic knowledge wrong can get painted in the same stripe as a fake fan.
What I've learned is to stay humble when you have something incorrect. And if I hear something like "this game is sexist because no female Space Marines" and see the same person rejecting the Sisters of Silence or Sisters or Battle? I know not to take them too seriously.
@@Dinker27 very well put. Also my broke ass loves 40K…. If I save up maybe I can play 10th lol. I like most factions so 🤷🏻♂️
@@Dinker27I bowed out when 6th Ed. dropped. I just couldn't afford it anymore, but I still read the novels as well.
A lot of fandoms nowadays are glorified groupie circles, you can't say anything negative or point out an error, you should only give praise. Especially if you make sense, mofos will move logic and the mountains to reinforce their points and love, and when you point that out they either; try to shame or insult you, or ban you.
Souls fandom in a nutshell.
Every time JSG speaks Elvish I am reminded that I am but a student in the fandom of the Lord of the Rings compared to him, and I have much to learn.
Just a slight correction, ”Elvish” is not one language. There are several elvish tounges; Quenya and Sindarin being the most prominent.
Speaking one or two of them is one thing. Then there is understanding the origin of names, understanding the Christian symbolism and themes in Tolkiens works, understanding the process of making the works, etc. JSG knows more then the average vanilla Tolkien fan, but I wouldn’t call him hardcore (which he doesn’t claim to be either).
If you are a fictitious languages nerd, I would also recommend reading up on the Klingon language - I remember they made kind of a Klingon Language kit quite some time ago.
As soon as I saw Bob's face, I knew this video would be a banger😊. I remember seeing him on a debate with Young Rippa, and to say it was a poor showing on his part is quite the understatement 😂
At this point, people who claim they're on the spectrum imo are full of it and do not want criticism for their opinions.
Its all bs tp distract us from the wealth plunder.
Best to be libertarian. You want to be left alone, n think what others do is their business as long as it doesn't affect your own personal liberty. You have to hate the government tho, either side, because they do exactly that, get in the way of liberty.
Eh. I have aspergers and even I don't do this shit lol
Most people who are on the spectrum usually do not tell others so casually that they are. Even those with severe Autism do not make it known, unless it's appropriate. Those on the spectrum keep quiet about it because they're afraid of being judged, since there still is a stigma towards Autism. The ones who do make it known either are comfortable enough to be open about it. If someone is going around claiming to be Autistic, it's either because they want sympathy or (as you pointed out) to deflect all criticism by guilt tripping people. People who are on the spectrum find those people detestable. Even if the person happens to be on the spectrum (best example is Chris-Chan - who has been disowned by those with Autism and by trans people).
is the chris chan method LOL using it as a shield, they are asking to be trolled
@@alwaysangry2232 Shield or to garner sympathy. In the case of Chris-chan, it was more like he didn't know social norms and just casually said it because he thought it was okay/normal to do so. But yeah, he does have a victim mentality (no thanks to his parents).
Superfans: We love the character so much that any changes to its gender, color and looks doesn't bother us. People who hate those changes are bigots.
Me: STFU.
A Fan is a person who loves a piece of media, loves the creator and what they created for what it is. Will acknowledge the flaws but still enjoys it.
A Poser (who I think are the people they’re trying to describe) is someone who latches onto something but only when it’s popular and complains about what’s “wrong” with it.
This dude probably liked The Rings of Power.
I consider myself part of no "side" so I love guys like you who call out both "sides". I personally like watching guys like Nerdrodic, and Drinker, but I also watch guys like Eric July (AnCap) and you (moderate left?)
I gave up on Nerdrotic after I found out he is happy to amplify Alex Jones - that guy is a truly rotten piece of shit so decided so no longer engage with his stuff. The drinker is great.
I think it is important to listen to a variety of takes, but there are lines on both sides it's worth not crossing.
Funny thing about those that have a side, they always accuse you of being on the other side when you dont take their side.
I'm in a similar boat. I've watched Drinker from time to time, but I also watch JSG and a few others. Both sides have their vices.
As for fake fans, they're an irksome breed. Nobody likes it when somebody claims to be a fan of a character or piece of media, and then does nothing but crap on that thing for not fitting exactly into what they think it should be. I've seen this with characters like Princess Peach(in a different way, and specifically her movie version) and Ariel. People express genuine critiques of them and just get blasted with a fine assortment of buzzwords.
Eric July isn't an ancap. He doesn't want to have to build his own private roads and postal service or hire private security due to having no police. He's a center-right normie.
No one that gargles corporate balls this hard is left wing, they're just Neolibs with pride flags, that doesn't make them left wing.
I like how these kinds of people try to gloss over that the word "fan" comes from "fanatic". Fanatics are well known for their unreasonable stance on changes to the things they love and frequently start wars over slight differences with other fanatics.
No one is surprised or bent out of shape, either, when sports fans complain about their team constantly, unless, perhaps, their team has won the championship for 3 seasons running. So why do these jokers think the term "fan" should suddenly take on such a milquetoast definition when it applies to fans of movie and TV franchises?
Oh my god. I have been waiting for someone to bitch slap these "Fandom Initiative" posers since I found their channel and the person to do it is JSG. Haven't even watched the whole thing and know this will be a curbstomp and that Actual Fandom will throw a tanturm over it.
Please JSG take me on this journey so I may bask in the sweet afterglow of this verbal massacre.
Those 2 dudes are the kind of people that would join a fandom for something, the demand to change the thing that people were already a fan of and then when they get push back they call everyone bigots
Aside from Alan Davis, I can't recall a writer on a mutant title that's been actually good in 30+ years after Bob Harass booted Claremont and Simonson.
"I am suffering from a functioning brain" got me hard. It made me laugh, it made me sad, because it's an accurate statement.
We "hate watch stuff"? No, we look at the feedback reliable reviewers provide and decide it's not for us. I'm glad there are people willing to trudge through shit so they can tell me about it without me ever having to dip my pristine toes into those mires.
Having said that, I've also been conned into watching something that was dog shit. Like a lot of other experiences in life, you get caught out from time to time and then you learn. I learnt that some movies and TV shows are just not worth watching. I've learnt to be more discerning with what media I devote my time into. I've learnt that even stories set in universes that I have appreciated in the past, are no guarantee that new stories will be worth my time. I've learnt that people writing modern stories often have blatant agendas which they inelegantly thrust into their work at the detriment of storytelling. They've taught me that telling me about some ideological point of view is more important to those media makers than actually telling a good story.
Overall, I am now pessimistic about new media. Where once I would throw the dice and be happy with a viewing experience, now I feel loathed to engage with some story lest an ideologue grabs hold of the next entry and completely reworks what I found appealing about the experience.
They've taught me not to trust them. So I don't. No hate watching for me, no watching anything much anymore. I'm left to my own devices and the stories I can invent in my own mind. With the coming advent of powerful AI art tools, I might just be at the right time to see my own movies someday.
I love that, they claim you need to watch it to have a genuine opinion, and when you do but still hate it, they claim people hate watched it.
Man, he is definitely right. These guys have all the Charisma and excitement of a used Kleenex.
True Japanese fans support Japanese content as Japanese content, and being accurately translated where the content and dialogue are the same in a different language.
Nah. Two Words: "Ghost Stories".
@@jackmars931ADV Ghost Stories, Saban Brands Samurai Pizza Cats, Digimon, Glitter Force, and 4Kids Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Sonic X, and One Piece all suck for being censored messes. Japan despised those versions to this day.
@@LuigiTheMetal64 Actually the creators of Samurai Pizza Cats like the US more. Also the 4Kids shows had to deal with the FCC and Columbine so you had to factor those in though most weebs don't.
BS, Japanese are often and cosntantly pushing out something that is totally different form "the original" because they accept everything as a NEW iterative and actaul ADAPTATION, not "finally the manga is actaully GOOD because they added color, movement and audio".
In Japan, people are PROUD to enjoy the MANUSCRIPT ALONE, and call it "manga". That's why and how the manga gets good enough to release on its own. An anime is a different work, and a musical is a different work, and a themed cafe is a different work. You can't paint an "accurate" depiction of INK on FILM, but FILM FANS lowkey HATE the original ink version as lesser work. That's YOUR "real fandom", and it is accurate, it's just toxic af.
@@Violent_Wolfen Defending 4Kids makes you a bigot towards anime fans and Japan. What good does the FCC do? Led Zeppelin never followed the FCC, and the rock band became one of the greatest bands of all time worldwide. 4Kids can easily release anime on home video, and never have to deal with the BS&P. That is how we got movies having content you would not get from TV airings. Also, Metallica fans (weebs) are not interested in anime. The only hint of anime Metallica has was when Kirk Hammett wore a Devilman shirt next to Cliff Burton in a picture.
Love your appraisal of the thing being able to openly critique and discuss should be the first basis of any fandoms. But one tiny thing about the Jeremy comment, what he had about the Mario movie was that when he saw the PREVIEW, he was afraid that they would Girl Boss Peach and that the brothers would get emasculated in their own movie. Literally the day after he saw the movie, he came out saying that he was impressed how they had given each and every characters their room to breath and be strong.
And yeah, sadly, Doomcock negative downturn became rather irritating.
Agreed. I was saying the same thing when I saw that initial preview. It’s their movie. Not hers. And real fans know Peach is capable but she’s not the hero typically. Mario and Luigi are the heroes. Heck, if I’m not mistaken Illumination wanted to go woke but Nintendo wouldn’t let them do it. So there was legit reason to be apprehensive with initial previews.
Yeah but...they did. Peach ended up being a girl boss and didn't have to be saved by Mario to a greater extent. She is forced, by danger of injury of her servants, to give up and go along with Bower. Which is short-lived as she girl bosses her way out of the situation with a little help from Toad and eventually Mario. Of course, this is explained away as training her entire life, but you find out that she has never even failed. So, she's perfect. In the games, she's a princess and royalty, not to be on the front lines. She is always kidnapped. Not for the sake of marriage but for the sake of taking over the Mushroom Kingdom and in turn the rest of the world. Today, this is a problematic theme, but it was totally okay for Luigi to be swapped in her place, right?
Mario was called "short" in a way that wasn't a polite description in the first few minutes of meeting Princess. From what we know in the movie of her past, she had never seen a human before, and she immediately insults the plumber. After his training montage, the message is to fail until you succeed, and that's fine. She tries to soothe his ego by lying to him. Somehow, this is...ok?
Mario gets his butt handed to him by Donkey Kong, who's basically a giant man(gorilla)-child who hasn't grown up at all and lives his glory days while unsuccessfully failing his grandpa. So it takes going through a mini arc to have that maturity happen, but hey, aren't there a lot of guys like that? Introducing the cat suit and giving Mario the last minute win was good, though, since it was consistent with his character and his message.
Luigi is made the "damsel in distress" all the way until the end, where they finally are given the power to defeat Bowser.
The movie is OK. It has feminist empowerment themes in there. It does do a bit of digging into ALL the guys. It wasn't bad, but they didn't get away from any of the typical messaging. That men are dumb (but endearing and enduring), and women are basically perfect and not powerless. If you turn your brain off, ignore some of the established character canon, and get used to the voice acting, it's OK. I think the popularity comes from it being a popular IP.
@@doomsday2703 Yes, I heard about that. I'm not saying the movie isn't great, it's just that you can feel the direction the Illumination was taking the movie at first. Like the scene where Mario learns to run the gauntlet and then tell us that when she was younger, she ran it first try without difficulty but "it was only because she grew up there". If Nintendo hadn't clamped down, I think things would of been much worse.
Examples:
1- Even tho it was toned down, you could still feel the created imbalance in the teams power dynamic. She's a Princess, who can do everything on first try, fight off anyone while he's a plumber.
Sure, making her Mario's mentor rebalanced some things but soured other things because it creates this string of thought: "If she's so great, what does she need Mario for? She could of simply told him, wait in the castle and I'll get your brother."
2- Kidnapped under duress, she saves herself by beating Bowser, tons of soldiers and save the hostages. The scene would of been much better IF, as Kong and Mario crash into the "wedding", she pulls out the ice flower, freezes off Bowser while they hold the soldiers and rescue the hostages. It makes the scene more balanced and shows them as equal partners in the fight. Instead what that wedding scene said: "Peach can't be stopped unless plot needs her to be stopped." As suddenly, she's "stunned" when the bullet goes off. What? The surprise bullet is suddenly too much after Bowser, an army and the hostages?
3- It also discredited everything done after that involves dealing with Bowser. After all, the brothers need a super star defeat him, only him, while Peach did that, and more, with an Ice flower, not five minutes ago.
Their entire position boils down to "Don't question, consume product" dressed up in progressive language, with a healthy dose of "Stop being mean about our garbage!!!".
But your point on Picard got me thinking: if a piece of media is perceived as not just being incredibly poor quality but outright antagonistic to its potential fans, should fans give it points for temporarily improving? I've not watched the show but the negative buzz is that the first two seasons are very poorly rated, so I'm not sure if it's fair to dismiss people who won't watch or dislike the third season as merely bitching about a show that actually fot better.
Again, some people are so burned by Hollywood they just don't want anything to do with it anymore. And I can respect that. But at the same time, they aren't these "anti-fans" these losers claim them to be. Sure, Doomcock is Doomcock but he is angry and tired of Hollywood fucking up everything we loved, and I can understand that. These poseurs are just shaming anyone who doesn't agree with all their points.
The thing is, though, a huge number of the so-called 'anti-fans" said that Picard Season 3 was really good. Some practically splooged over it.The Doomcocks of the world were a small minority, even within that group. Those people don't "Hate just to hate", they just recognize that Kurtzman is a hack who makes bad Star Trek, and when someone else was brought in (Matalas), he actually made something good. They should instead start trying to figure out WHY Top Gun and Mario succeeded, and why all the stuff that Friday Night Tights dislikes ends up bombing (with few exceptions). If the opinions of the "anti-fans" generally line up with what seems to sell tickets/copies and actually makes money, then maybe - just maybe - they're actually on to something.
The marketing hype is strong with Pukehard S3, don't believe the astroturfing that says it got better when it didn't. For example, the thing opens with Beverly Crusher (you know, the doctor) under attack by aliens boarding her ship and she uses a *pump-action* (lol!) phaser set to KILL to wipe them out, even going so far as to disintegrate one of them who was incapacitated on the floor. The whole thing is about a conspiracy within Starfleet (AGAIN!) that involved torturing aliens and turning them into weapons and this time they didn't even bother to claim Section 31 it was just plain old Starfleet Intelligence committing war crimes that make Abu Graib seem tame. Later Picard and Beverly decide to execute a prisoner in cold blood just because they've gotten all the information they can out of her. And these are just a few examples, mind you, of the dark gritty cynical dystopian violent mess that was the season (you know, just like the rest of nuTrek). But because there was a scene at the end of going back into action on a recreated Enterprise-D with nostalgic music and a few gushing words of praise for how things used to be, all is forgiven according to these shills. Don't believe them.
@@darthmeow1370 If you didn't like it, fine. But stop pretending it wasn't received WAY better than Seasons 1 and 2. That's not just "marketing." If the marketing was so good why don't people think the first two seasons were any good? Because there's an obvious difference in quality for Season 3. Your personal dislike is an anecdotal matter of taste, and has no bearing on what everyone else thought about it.
@@peteg475 It's called astroturfing, and a desperate production company trying to salvage their jobs by pretending they've scored a hit and getting enough people to believe it. Either you've fallen for the false narrative, or are one of those who are shilling it. Which one is it?
I swear I witness every IP absorb these kind of weirdos making they’re own take on the story and always being horrendous
They're trying to turn fandom into a personal identity
Everything is an identity now and they'll defend it no matter how unhealthy it is.
This video is one reason I enjoy your channel. Intelligent argument and you hit both sides. I don't agree with everything you post but I like hearing a different perspective.
its kind of funny how walking into this video, my definition of an "anti fan" lines up so much with the one you gave at the end of the video. For someone to claim to be a fan of something only to get close enough to tear it down and only reform it in their image isn't being a fan of something, its narcissism
It’s funny you mention it, because we’ve spent 20 years saying, pleading, begging to make transformers and go Joe JUST like the shows we watched as kids and they keep failing massively because they choose not to because THEY think it’s too juvenile and demand “realism” and “maturity” (but also all the *ick jokes cuz lol).
Well, we did get Transformers Animated and Prime, and the Bumblebee movie in the last 20 years which were all really good.
Same problem DCEU films had.
"Just film the Diniverse. It's that simple."
@@harbl99 the issue DC has is that they are too late,Marvel had their time to establish cool characters and universe and cash in later on,
now its too late thats why DC is looking for some "miracle" from James Gunn useing his name to push sales.
I personally cannot watch the original transformers show without loosing brain cells nowadays. On the other hand, I love me some Transormers prime, which is somewhat less whimsical. So the detractors may have a point.
To give an example from yet another franchise, the original tmnt show is a very weird show. Something you can enjoy as a kid, but would not willingly put on as an adult. The 2003 show on the other hand? Yeah, I watch a couple of episodes of that every now and again...
Another couple of examples are Disney's Gargoyles, the nineties Spiderman show and Avatr the last Airbender. All of them are kids shows, all of them are really, really good.
Fake fans are pretty easy to spot nowadays.
Sometimes, I think fans were all more mature as children where we were each allowed to like, not like and make opinions without judgement.
Other than the fact that the Captain America Hydra heel turn was a really good twist on the character for its time, I completely agree with JSG. You’re my dude for this one.
That was the first comic I bought and the follow up was the last comic I bought. 75 years of history to cover and they just went lol jk
So there's this book called "Tribes" it's a business book about collecting and cultivating communities as markets.
Every time I hear commentators talk about Fandom as a "community," I think of that book.
I agree with you, JSG; if you like it, you're a fan. If it's a "community," someone is trying to sell you something.
At 21:11 I noticed that the guy thinks he's describing "anti-fans" but he's actually describing the attitude of Hollywood adaptation makers. It's people like Michael Bay, And Zack Snyder who are secretly ashamed of their childhood fandoms and feel they need to butch up their adaptations to compensate and try to take something fun "seriously". If you can't enjoy Batman, the Transformers, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at their goofiest, you're probably not a fan at all.
I think after The Dark Knight (2008), every action director wanted to make their own gritty reboot of a cartoon IP. It's been 15 years since then with no luck...
Some fans genuinely hate the defiled filth coming out of the game companies, comic book companies, movie companies, streaming companies etc. and there is definitely a pattern that has taught people that yes, a lot of the content that looks terrible in a trailer or preview, will be terrible in the final product. They're not anti-fans. They are loyal fans who hate what these industries have become and all these muppets that defend these companies taking a crap all over these franchises, original books etc.
Trans uniting radical feminist... theres your warning right there.
Whatever that means. A radical feminist who unites trans people? I'm thinking he doesn't realize that "radical" in the context of feminist theory means "gender-critical."
The Fandom Initiave and all their "arguments" serve as a perfect definition of projection/strawmanning
It is kinda sad that back in the day before the internet was in everyone's pockets if you met someone who was interested in D&D, comics, mangas, anime, science fiction, or fantasy you didn't care about political leanings or if the person was not reading the same brand comics or watching&reading a different anime or manga chances are you became friends because most people not knowing how big the nerd fandoms were back then
Being a real fan means you have to admit that your favorite artists, bands, creators in any medium, sometimes lay a fuckin' egg. Iron Maiden, in my opinion, is the greatest heavy metal band of all time, that doesn't mean that they aren't past their prime and all of their music is great. But that doesn't mean that I stop being a fan just because they aren't what they were in the 80s anymore.
Real SW Fans: "Yeah, not all SW is good. Pretty much half of the EU is bad. But we like what we like."
Fake SW Fans: "If you don't like *ALL* SW, you're an alt-right Yahtzee! *REEE!!!"*
Have you listened to Maiden lately? They like a lot of other metal bands lost their way in the 90s but they came back strong in the 2000s and put out some of the best stuff of their career. The members that left during the Blayze Bailey period came back and the replacement guitarist stayed making it a three-lead attack and it is amazing. For just one example, check out Paschendale from the 2005 album Dance of Death --it's difficult to argue that it stands with anything they've ever done and exceeds a good chunk of it.
I'm a Nintendo fan as you can tell. But dear god they're a fucking train wreck right now. Bad PR stunt after bad PR stunt. I'm pretty open about that. At least the games are usually still good and they're mostly against censorship.
A fan is somebody who likes, enjoys and is enthusiastic enough about a story or media to seek out and connect with other people who also care.
Being unwilling or unable to simply define commonly understood terms is a bad red flag, left or right.
Their arguments boil down to “if you don’t enjoy something that I do for the reasons I do, you’re not a fan”.
Keep up the good fight JSG, your commentary is smart, considered and often funny-as-f***
My Fandom for most things has turned into complete apathy at this point. I'm not motivated at all to watch any Star Wars, MCU or similar "products" anymore. I just can't muster up the excitement for it and I was one of the folks who really supported these properties with my interest and money. I don't know who they're made for anymore, but it definitely isn't me.
My friend frequently refers to fandoms as if they are some kind of tribal community that thinks alike, yet at the same time he is not a part of despite liking the same things. It's all just "nuh uh I'm not like them, I'm special, I'm separate" virtue signaling because he doesn't want to be associated with negativity. And because he's also kind of a wannabe elitist intellectual who wants to feel superior to someone else.
Fandoms are just a loose collection of people with completely dissimilar values/backgrounds/tastes whose only similarity across the board is that they happen to like the same thing. That's it. There is no collective. People who look for reasons to lump clearly disparate people together are just trying to find a lazy way to dismiss a bunch of people by association.
I can tell our man JSG has hit puberty. His voice is so deep. Almost anime like.
this is why i dont talk about anime to my co-workers. i gatekeep this shit. real fans dont talk about fandoms or antifandoms.
we are making theory videos of concepts in the media or explanations of themes and real world allusions to the media.
good video JSG!!!!
Their beards are so neatly trimmed. It's a dead giveaway.
I hate when Americans use "left" or "right" in their arguments when most of them have no real understanding of what left and right means. You can still be left wing without being liberal. You can still be right wing without being conservative. Many Americans seem to believe that this is not the case
Tbf, 3/4 of our population is borderline retarded.
I've been seeing these guys lurking around TH-cam for a while now I'm glad someone from this side of the Fandom finally responded to them.
This was all said perfectly! Well done! 👏🏻
And to think that the idiots actually "tried" (and I'm using that word very loosely) to make a tantrum back; it was so pathetic it could have almost become cute.
They want to claim Antis as term,... what next: Fandom Tourists?
they lack even own terms.... they steal now an already adapted term which basically originated from 2chan and got anglicized , lol, lmao even
The agenda of wanting media to respect the original author and audience is an anti fan
Pushing their agenda is a ' 'real fan' ' because it 'improves the work'
The reason fans slam reboots like Ghost Busters 2016 or Rings of Power? Every story has an implicit promise in its genre. Romance will have the love interests meet by a certain point, romantic tension, falling in love, etc.
Indiana Jones is modeled on old movie serials, with the same two fisted action adventure.
"Modern Audiences" reboots promise nostalgia, this is just like what you remember. And then write something that makes that promise a lie.
As for things like Picard? It's like saying ST: Enterprise or Voyager got good in their third of fourth season! It's too late. I have to eat a couple seasons of shit sandwiches to get to a delicious sundae? I will still have the aftertaste of shit in my mouth when I finally get to the ice cream.
It is like the three episode rule in anime. It's called 'the hook' in writing. You have to have something to get someone's interest early, give them a reason to be interested in finding out what happens next. Voyager and Enterprise? Didn't hook me and didn't get any interest to keep watching. Saying it got good long after I lost interest isn't a good argument.
In Gundam shows, a "Gundam Jack" is a common trope, because it hooks the audience early. Because the one suit the raiders miss will have the often ill or untrained protagonist fall into the cockpit. Finding out what happens with the stolen mecha and the pilot of the one not taken brings the audience along.
"When you want to change it to make it better that's being a fan."
"Ok, I want to change it to focus on good storytelling and characters instead of forced politics which would make it better."
"No, if you want to change it like that you are an anti-fan."
You made a great point about people who always look for the worst and continually bash something even if it gets better. Season 3 of Picard was good. It was not great, but it was a vast improvement over the first two seasons.
I grew up with Disney, and I want them to get better. Not only do I want them to do better because I remember when they were at the top of their game, but I also want them to do better so my 401k makes more money. Why would I want one of the largest entertainment companies to go broke which would not only hurt me financially but also hurt others financially?
You are a refreshing type of human sir. Thanks for the commentary.
"Just consume product, then get excited for new product." -RLM
Wow, what amazing arguments. Also in the last few years we have the advantage of pattern recognition, once you start seeing certain casting, buzzwords during interviews, calls of istaphobia, we can ascertain pretty easily what's what.
I never did understand the "toxic fan", maybe it is because I am old. But throughout my life, I like what I like, and am entertained by it. Sure, having seen the original cut of Macross SDF-1, after discovering the whole anime genre with Robotech by Harmony Gold and seeing now that it is a pale imitation, but I was entertained by both.
It's like being mad the someone is entertained by cover bands or amateur AMV/GMV's instead of being 'pure' and seeing/hearing them as they were envisioned by their original artists. If you are entertained, how ever you are entertained it is not a zero-sum type of thing. There is not a limited amount of happiness in the world and trying to diminish someone else's enjoyment because it doesn't match yours is just gobsmackingly stupid.
Damn...sorry for ranting all over your space JSG...
That's actually a fairly succinct way to sum up the weird as hell turn of events with all things interesting to anyone that just wants to like what they like being obfuscated , a good example I play D&D, Guild Wars, Oblivion, LOTRO... But weirdly I can't get into Warhammer fantasy, though I eat sleep and breath 40k even though by all metrics I should love WH fantasy, all I can come up with I like what I like much as you stated. Long story short I can admire or feel connected to things that otherwise have no bearing on my life, and I just want to escape to my universe of choice without the real world interspliced or injected into my damn fictional world.
Edit: Grammar
Remember when "toxic fans" were the ones that acted like Misery from Stephen King's book of the same name and not those who were politically motivated pretending that they were ""experts"" at what they were a fan of?
I miss those days...
The way I see it, a "toxic fan" is someone who cheers when they take a good story and completely turn it around, change race and sexuality, etc, and focus more on that than the actual storyline. It's so fucking dumb. THAT is toxic!
It's a tactic that people, especially the far left, use to shut down any criticism. They use "phobia" this way. Everything is labeled a phobia or similarly medicalized or psychologized in order to shut down any conversation. The right is also guilty of this with their use of "syndrome."
seen both macross and robotech and i got to say i don't see any huge differences between the cuts. the main differences is in robotech with the mention of the master so they can insert the second season involving another anime. but overall the meat of both are the same
I have watched Turf Nations videos. He is astonishingly simple-minded. Like a sub species of human without the ability to think.
When going gets tough, use reverse psychology and claim fans are haters because of "self hate/internalized misogyny/some psychological mumbo jumbo" to dismiss people when can't argue with logic.
Fan is short for fanatic, but now it applies even if you mildly like something, with our ever shortening attention spans.
To be fair, JSG, I gave these folks a serious open-minded listen, but I ended up agreeing with all your points. I feel sad for them.
Keep your fully functional brain going and keep making great videos. I really enjoy them.
Nice Sindarin ending, BTW. Na lû e-govaded 'wîn.
Man I give you big props for even listening to these clowns long enough to make this video. Painful.
😂😂😂 I watched snakes on a plane for exactly It the reasons you outlined. It was bad good. I enjoyed it and laughed my ass off. I didn't overanalyze it. These guys have absoultle have no idea what a fan is. You put it perfectly, you either like it allot or don't care about it. That is a fan.
The way the spend about 5 minutes trying not to say the words they know will give them shit but having no other way to express their biases is funny as fuck.
I rewatched Digimon Adventure. It turned out to be even better than I remembered it. I can appreciate the way the story is written so well as the isekai'd kids show what they have and ponder about food and how to survive in that world. I was drawn in how much thought was put into it. The good and evil angle is a bit cheesy to be fair, but even the villains can have standards there, like Myotismon not wanting to murder innocent kids, only the ones that would get in his way. I feel the writer's really were thinking things through with it.
Point I am trying to make is, yup, some things might not be as good as one remembers them, but if it is well written, you might be able to appreciate a good show from your childhood even mroe as an adult.
An anti-fan is someone who sits around having a Starbucks fueled faux philosophical panel about what is and isn't "ethical" for other people to enjoy things. Seriously though, I come from a time not so far in the past where liking sci-fi, fantasy, and gaming, meant learning how to deal with the what others might try to put on you, because it really wasn't socially acceptable to be into those things in many places. We were the people who suppressed shame about who we were, who banded together, and that is why fandom is a mainstream thing today. The vast majority of us only have one agenda, which is to enjoy the things we like and share that enjoyment with other like minded souls, whether we agree or disagree. Because of that history, you aren't likely to see us holding discussions about who to exclude and include.
Also, just wanted to add to your point - They say they are making comics, for example, for the "new generation", but when my kid reads Spiderman comics (which he usually doesn't buy, btw, again confirming your point), he isn't reading current storylines - he's reading 80's to early 00's books. That isn't what got him into it - He came up on the Spectacular Spiderman cartoon (which is very good btw) and whatever else he could get from the library when he was little. Now, with all comics available to him at his fingertips for free, he doesn't choose to read the books that were allegedly made for his cohort.
I love LotR. I've read the trilogy, and the Hobbit. The only ring I own is a replica of the one shown in the Peter Jackson films. I've even read the Silmarillion and found it to be rather underrated. If someone could/would adapt its stories in a respectful and coherent way, I'd eat it up. The sheer, epic madness that goes on in those tales needs more eyeballs on it.
Beren and Luthien alone, is enough to make one hell of a film. People that sleep on The Silmarillion don’t know what they are missing.
Thank you for taking the time to translate these clips into actual english, i would have no idea what they were saying without it.
I find it funny how these TH-camrs who are self appointed Fandom authority over their Fandom sit there with all this Clean modern Merch positioned behind them.. No Original Toy's from their childhood that looked played with and broken, somebody who's kept their OG Toys that's a sign of a real fan.
The term 'anti-fan' has been in use here for decades. It always meant someone who buys the product for the sake of complaining about it.
that rainbow. if you told me I would have a negative visceral reaction to seeing a rainbow 15 years ago, I would have called you a fool but we sit here in 2023 and its a reality. its the same reaction I get when I see my cats late night hairball the next morning. the contents of my stomach attempt to leap into my mouth out of shock and disgust. I honestly feel sorry for the rainbow though, it doesnt deserve the abuse it gets from the people who parade it around.
I have consciously decided to not have that reaction when seeing a rainbow.
Fk those propagandists.
I'm going to enjoy the beauty of the rainbow and be amazed at the colours
I couldn't believe Nerd of the Rings went as soft on Rings of Power as he did, given how ridiculously well versed he is in Tolkien lore. What I saw was more charitably neutral than positive per se, and my impression is that he compartmentalized it in his mind as some kind of alternative history of Middle Earth, but I still don't know how he was able to stomach it.
I saw a lot of fake fans back in the mid 2010's when I was a regular user of some of the most popular online metal music forums.
You could always easily spot the "entertainment hipsters" because they'd butt into conversations trying to big themselves up despite knowing little to nothing about the band that was being discussed in the thread and then when they'd be challenged by actual fans to prove their shit they'd get all defensive and pissy about how we were "fake fans who were just gate keeping".
I remember getting into it with one idiot who insisted that I didn't know the first thing about Black Sabbath.
After I schooled him by posting a pdf link to a literal dossier I had written the previous summer about the band that had every single significant date and event in the entire history of the band from its formation until the present day (at the time) listed in it complete with sources, a bibliography and reviews of each album along a photo of my entire collection of their albums along with all of the memorabilia of theirs I had collected to that time, his response was an indignant: "well you're just an asshole who thinks he's smarter than I am and is trying to gatekeep so you can silence marginalized voices".
I responded by telling him that I didn't care what his skin tone was or what his proclivities in the bedroom are, so long as he actually knew what he was talking about or was willing to learn from people who actually did know and have reasonable discussion like a civilized simian then I and everyone else on the board would be willing to talk to him, but if he was going to be a smarmy entertainment hipster and pretend at being a fan just to try and get one over on actual fans then he wouldn't be welcome there.
This is like what stan smith said about roger when he didn't let him join the ham club he doesn't care about the idea of it or what it means to him and other members he just wants to make it about himself
Both of them look like the people that never got a single piece of a woman in their entire lives. Bring back bullying