Im coloured and i fully support Cape Independence. As a coloured persin in WC we are the majority yet natuonal government discriminates against us. Theres places in the country that uf the racial quotas law is passed then we cant find any work there. Even in Cape Town where we are the majority the laws still put black people above us in terms of percentages. So i am in full support of Cape Independence.
What are you talking about. You and black people are seen as all blacks just like in USA. The whites are oppressing your'll and the blacks dumass. The white colonizers still haven't returned the land to black people they stole before 1994, till now they haven't returned it. Now you call that freedom to the blacks? Wake up and stop isolating yourself from your people.
Only stumble block is, cape independence calls a referendum, the govt shoots it down. Then the international route should be taken. Which will take two to three years. We are in a debt trap, and time is of essence. Fortunately there is a group which forms the majority of the minority, and who have completed the international route. Hopefully cape independence will utilize their expertise.
What is very important it will be the first time people of the Western Cape are asked what they want . Yes a first world country all taxes will be abolished.But every bank account will have a small Levy . It will be like a tax free haven for international investors, who are waiting for the Western Cape to be a country on its own .
I don't like this tax plan. It would bankrupt the country over night . It would incentavice cash economy on the one hand and a citizenry that avoids using banking services in the jurisdiction. 3rd party financial intermediaries surcumventing the banking sector is already a reality . Think crypto space. The alternative if you want to force the point is a financial police state. At this point you can kiss financial flows in terms of investment and innovation goodbaaaaaaai. By the way what will the currency be. What will its Fiat base be (I presume it will be backed by some sort of assept or mix of with dept being the primary or defacto only asset) and how will it interact with the external space in terms of trade and conversion .
I think that's a little harsh on Gauteng. Our air quality isn't the worst in the world. We have decent roads, around the potholes. We have water most of the time. It's not like there's billions going to hospitals that don't see the money? Our police and fire departments aren't using outdated broken machinery. We're just fine😂
I support the idea that the ANC and the DA do not represent anybody but themselves. The only alternative I can genuinely support is one that has at its foundation the Constitution. Politicians will have to swear allegiance to the Constitution. This must mean that those who swear to uphold the Constitution will be judged much more harshly for failing to do so. Special courts will have to be established to deal with these rogue elements. Politicians will have no sway over the outcome. It will be completely under the courts. The people must have the power to remove any politician who fails the Constitution.
What does a black care about a piece of paper - re Constitution? Rules are made to be broken. What Black upholds the “Rule of Law”? Nil. It’s all settled with the AK47.
Cape Independence will never happen. It is a dream. How will South Africa give up Cape Town and Western Cape? And possibly like Northern Cape and Eastern Cape.
@@clarkyo7024 If you say you want a govt you vote for, we live in South Africa which is a democracy. No one's political or economic rights/freedoms are limited. And plus, the Western Cape is under the DA. It is far better than many parts of South Africa. Look at how well the DA has done there.
I am yet to be convinced that Cape Independence is viable, at the moment I favor unity, but I strongly support having the referendum.I feel it is an important test of the adherence to democratic principles of the NatGov. The more opposition there is to the referendum, the more I will support independence.
I believe their position is to first favour federalism (devolution of powers) and if that proves too difficult due to political meddling of a certain centralised tyranny, then full suzerainty is the last resort. Both options would give the WC effective self-governance - its just a matter of context and which would be the path that least upsets the applecart.
I'll never ever vote for DA as i told my self, i think people who don't want to stay in South Africa they must leave immediately they must go abahambe.
Well we were warned before the ANC took power what we were dealing with, but clearly everyone mistook a golden shower for a Rainbow. Its a shame a country or people's disposition and future is always decided by the most ignorant masses and not the intelligent few who run the data to conclude the modt efficient outcome for all down the line. Hence you get the shit we are in now. Because i was born at the end of the old era, but even i could see it was stupid to put inexperienced tribals in charge of a complex developed economy of European design. Fk we were 2000 years ahead of the people around here. But now, we chose to spare feewings instead of sticking to our independence, the whole fking reason our people came to this fking spec of dirt to begin with and fking bled for it.
Well done CIAG I have seen people change their mind on this and I like to think that I've helped in that. It's no longer a pie in the sky idea anymore.
It's not so much about changing a mind it's more about the practical implications. Craig is heavy on sentiment and extreamly light on details. We all know populist politics are at the order of the day and Craig is firmly in this mold. I recomend he provides some clarity on how sutch a goverment will work look and function. Clarity on: 1 National assets 2. Security arrangements 3 Goverment funding 4. Currency 5. Immegration 6. Citizen register and citizenship in general 7. Nuclear policy and regulator 8. Political structure and power dinamic 9. Minority rights 10.Taxasion mechanics and tax policy 11. Dept burden and depth funding policy 12. Shape of beurocracy 13. Citizens rights and responsibility. The current political class might have the stomach for it. We do however need to guard against a situasion where the most dinamic and ambitious amugst this class sets the Cape up as just another African clepto inclave. When I hear people like Greg harping on and on, on populist rhetoric I can already see that the titanic is steaming full speed ahead.
@@shortMario you can find that information from Cape exit and the CIAG's websites. They have also explained all those concerns in other interviews. As I under stand it the CIAG is the lobby group pushing the movement and talking to politicians while the Cape exit group is working on the knuts and bolts that you mentioned in your comment. The push now is to get a referendum I'm sure there will be an information drive to inform people of how it will work well before we get to voting for it but if you want that information you can definitely get it on the websites and many interviews on TH-cam.
Not sure Cape independance can be measured via a election that is looking for a mandate that denies the very idea of 'Cape independance' A national election even one looking for local governance by implication has seded as mutch independance as it can. Sutch an election is looking for a integrated political management plan and is not an appropriate forum or question regarding independance. The last election was asking who should govern not who should be governed. Then there is the question of competence. I am sure the electorate prefers a competent management over a independant one. The party in the Cape who happens to be attached to competence has a mutch bigger federall structure and relies on its base in the Cape to aspire to a much bigger national program. For this party to lose the Cape will result in its federal structure giving up much bigger ambitions and its not really designed or mandated to do so. It will require a splitting of this party and currently no faction within the party is pursuing such a course. The national management would also almost surtainly disciple such a faction before or at the point it gets traction. This independance campaign is and probably should be seen in isolation of a national political platform. Two different ends are persued at the same time. Primary end being competent political management and secondly independance . Both can of course be persued at the same time in parallel and in the best case they could merge in a space where both ends are met. Any way the political risk for the leadership class is to heavy and as sutch at this point its a non starter. It is however good to think about this scenario and have a template for succession in place. It's a matter of time before the rather artificial construction that is South Africa unravels in a failed state at this point Cape independence will be a De Facto reality anyway. It will do the Cape and representatives of all viable political entities very well to plan for such an eventuality. The question becomes where borders will be and what geographical entities could combine well to become viable political vehicles. Some areas in the current South Africa proper will probably devolve into areas where no political hegemony can be established. Mutch Like Puntland and Somaliland in the current somalia. We might also see a Syria type situation where groups and factions are in De Facto control without international recognition a "Emiratization" process so to speak. Cape indépendance will be a practical reality as apposed to a deliberate political program.
@@shortMario You literally cannot even spell independence? 🤦♂ You're "Not sure Cape independance can be measured via a election" in which everyone was allowed to vote? But you think it can and should be measured by a contrived poll "looking for a mandate that -denies- *promotes* the very idea of 'Cape independance'"? Have I got that right? Alrighty then... 🙄
@budyza180 God I love the fight in you. Castrating my efforts on the obvious intellectual faillings that my lack of spelling ability implies. It gives emediate credence to your well punctuated and gramaticly pristine arguments. It really does. Hats of with a low bow to you sir.!!!!! To anwser your question I don't think Cape independance can be achieved via a ballet. It will take the barrel of a gun or a defacto situasion as and when South Africa proper fails as a unitary political entity. What I was under the impression we were discussing was the hypothetical. My only point was that under the last election the electorate was not voting on the issue of independance since it was not implicitly on the ballet. You might and rightfully so draw a conclusion that explicitly the direction of the result showed little appetite for independance. I am simply putting it to you that what you conclude might be skewed by the actual question asked . I am exploring the space for the possible meaning it might hold. Most voters are illiterate drabble like me. Our votes are not sophisticated proxy expressions on the political future on terms of self determanation . I would venture that its an actual expressions of the actual question at hand at the ballet. My understanding of this question had little to do with cape independance. It had e erything to do with which team would you like to represent you in the current political dispensation.
@@shortMarioobviously the team that puts all citizens first and work towards democracy. Our country according to the citizens media reported that we are now officially in a debt trap. A barrel of a gun????? Exactly what the loan sharks want, more desteuction, so they can take over a very broken down country. Nope. We should not fear resistence. Rather focus on who is responsible for this debt trap and break away from it.
Nobody is sure of anything hence why. I envy those countries that just had a revolt and chased out their problems saving them decades of bureaucracy in a system captured by their captors, like we are. Because we could fix SA like tomorrow if we decided, fk the ANC, bring the mob, the flag and a guillotine, and watch the helpless basteds run for the fking hills. But nooo, everyone is sitting around expecting millions of political parties to save them, when none are sure what will happen or what is the most sufficient course of action. So we sit and suffer instead, very logical.
Not sure how the 'phone pole' was conducted. But you can't trust a Telkom 'landline' phone pole. People who still have 'landlines' are simply no longer representative of the average person in SA today.
Exactly the same argument holds against the Freedom Charter being derived from the opinions of all South Africans. The country still had group areas back then so it stands to reason that those collecting statements containing "The Will of the People" were not allowed into certain areas. Whether it was right or wrong doesn't matter but it does indicate that the Freedom Charter cannot claim to be the _Will of the People_ as it is often purported to be.
British person here. If the western cape gained independence I would probably move there. I have previously visited the region and considered immigrating but with the way I think SA is headed, in 10yrs time my quality of life would actually be worse off. However I believe that the western cape is well ahead of the rest of the nation and would see an independent Western Cape as a massive opportunity for me
Obviously as a foreigner I have no say in this debate because ultimately it is up to the people to decide, however I will silently be showing my support (even if it is just for personal reasons)
Yeah look the UK i hear is having its own troubles, troubles we have had for a long time, infact we are ahead of the world regarding problems. But its difficult to say when we unfortunately have a very very outdated and very stupid population who keep outvoting the smarter few who actually understand anything. And stupidity can lead us anywhere. You want to come here while i cant wait to leave. I have so many qualifications and i cannot find work or anyone that can pay me a living wage, and i cannot afford to live like this for long because how will i retire? Id be better off blowing my brains out when i come of age because as it stands, i wont be able to afford to live.
Nice dream, but It’ll never happen. Picture being at the arse end of Africa, and the entirety of Africa (and BRIC) sanctioning you. Not a great outlook there. And if you do get it to work, the influx over your border will eventually break you anyway.
Great idea, with oil and gas off the West Coast you're dreaming! They will never let it go! Best to actually support the DA and the Multi-Party Charter for 2024! Get the youth to rise and register and vote!
I think it's quite obvious. They can see that SA is a sinking ship (thanks to the ANC kakistocracy) and so they're determined to not go down with it. Conceptually it's perfectly reasonable.
@@oodlesofnoodles4660 If ANC is bad we will replace them with better leaders. There's no good reason to brake a country into small pieces and destroy the economy
@@wahwah7701 destroy the economy? Our economy is barely ticking over, and it won't get any better with our current national government and policy direction. We need a fundamental shift in the political landscape to get out of this mess, and that may include Cape independence if the rest of SA is content with the status quo.
@@LonelyTreeSunset Stop lying to us South Africa is doing better than all European nations as we speak. America's homelessness problems has spiraled out of control, people are living in camping tents on the streets. Britain has energy problems and lost millions of jobs, nonstop protests and white British middle class is destroyed they are all broke, the standard of living is unbearable that's how its expensive. We South Africa are part of BRICS friends with China the richest country in the world right now and also friends with Russia the strongest militarily country in the whole world. We have more than 10 natural resources and recently discovered Gas and Oil. 55 Chinese companies have signed investments with us to come and assist us to industrialize this country to its fullest potential so we can also sell finished products not just raw materials. So we are doing fine and we are gonna be a global super power very soon. So we don't need this independents bullsh*t, watch and learn and let the pro's (Chinese) handle this. As for independents forget about it, it will never happen, if you want a coup here South Africa, try and do that you will get it I promise you.
@@geraldlekhowane873612:59 one never knows. There is another non political group who have completed the international route...not political. This route does not require the government to approve the referendum. Its going strong from what ive heard, and it has no political affiliation but legally based on the will of the people
@@kenernstzen2407 every time a white person gets a glimpse of the truth. They either believe to be threatening a person who they talking too. Or they start insulting a person 🤷. Really a sign of limited intellect. Yu wanna tell me that 😏 yu can't think of anything to say apart from vomiting insults. Here is what you need to know: Africa is for Africans, black people. Yu are settlers here. It's historic fact. Originally yu were so evil to chop our continent amongst yourselves. We are on the revolution to dismantling boders. Yu are dreaming of creating a country within our country. Yu crazy. No one is stopping yu from immigration....... hambaaa Sathane
@@kenernstzen2407 If your'll want to see a coup like it's happening in rest of Africa. Try and do this nonsense your'll will wish your'll were never born. We are not scared of your'll
What about them ate you concerned about exactly. I am not in the Westerncape and the prospect does not bother me on a individual level. Structurally yes. It would be good if you could lay out your issues for clarity
@lm_b5080 If you mean by Democratic values. The tyranny of a elected class, a patronage network, decision by committees and courts, Legislative paralysis, progressive decay and political horse trading then no thank you. If by the rule of law you mean the police and prosecutional capacity to keep the boot of tyrany on the throught of those with capacity and a mind to think openly then no thanks. I will stay in my dictatorship with no democracy and where the rule of law is substituted by pr Conservative usage where the principme of If the nabours do not complain there is no problem rain's supreme.
I do NOT believe in LucK. But GooD LucK with the INITIATIVE. 11:06, 19:38 15:38 Rob Hersov is the BEST candidate for Cape Independence presidency than Gayton McKenzie
I doubt the DA will ever have the guts to test the voters of the W Cape to ask the same question…”should W Cape stay within the Republic of South Africa, or should it break away?” The DA will NEVER HAVE THE GUTS to do it.
I think you are seriously underestimating the DA. Never mind calling for a referendum, if support is big enough the DA would just break away with or without national approval.
@@mervinmarias9283 I hope you are right. I am one of the many that vote for the DA because they have administered the W Cape really well. But I doubt that they will allow a referendum….if they do however, I will be the first to apologise
This is a pipe dream. But you cannot explain how impossible this is to separatists. They get very ticked off on this subject. It will take a merciless army with nuclear weapons ready to use them to secure a productive province out of national government. We are all allowed to dream.
Ai these people who support this nonsense do not see history in the making.....it has always been a western strategy "divide and conquer " and its a white culture, it resonate with them far more and others are just used as many have been used through the formation of apartheid.
It would be nice when cape town gets a coloured Premier. Ek is n swartmens maar ek glo dit tyd vir die Kaap want daai ander mense kyk net vir ryk mense en toeriste en vergeet hoe die mense Swaar kry.
actually a very fair point. Also there is no good international president to follow. That being said if it can happen and happen peacefully we will see a evolution of the political reality in Africa that could bennifit a lot of identities across the continent . The idea does however rais many practical spectres that is perhaps unsolvable in a dysfunctional south Africa proper.
@@shortMario it is unrealistic to expect any part of any country to just decide to declare independence will give rise to hundreds of states in Africa. Name a country that has successfully tried to do this without the approval of a central government? If you look at Scotland or Catalonia that tried to do it, central governments at the very least have to agree to a referendum. Western Cape cannot just decide on their own otherwise the world would not recognise that "country". If they are not happy living as part of South Africa, they should emigrate.
@ChrisMuzo83 That is sort of my point. No international president exists. If sutch a president where to be set it could open the flood gates. I would venture a guess that this is one of the key reasons the political class is apposed to sutch a move. It implied the devolution of political authority away from strong central control to a more localised base. Think of it as entropic mutch in the way as empires of old devolve into the constitute entities once the momentum of hegemony starts rubbing at the core of the human desire for individual expression. It's the point where those who are subjugated to rule revolts when the centre us to weak to impose its will. The maintenance of order becomes directly in conflict with the desire of personal expression. The historic president does exist in the context of a a collapse in Central power or some external crisis that facilitates the unraveling. I can't think of a modern or historic example that did not happen at the sharp edge of a sword or the hot blazing barrel of a gun....
@@ChrisMuzo83thank you very much the whole ideas is from none natives, it's the ideas of whites Europeans living in South Africa, but they can as well move back to where they ce from to form their so called independent nation, certainly not in Africa
@@ChrisMuzo83 Perfect respond. They think they can do as they like without the governments approval. They are in for a shock because what they want will never happen.
Mr colour your a shame, Africans are not colour people, dream well, but you colours or white will never never take any potion of land in Africa to create your own country, never never never never, dead on arrival
You didn't come to the Freedom march on Freedom day in April this year.. it was mostly coloured people marching.. we are so proud of our cape... this is so possible... go research please and you will see it could happen if enough people like you and me understand how it can work.
@@vanessahawtrey6407 keep on wishing APARTHEID.2 will definitely not happen again... Western Cape coalition loading 2023 .Soo if any 1% chance it got will be put in the bin..
They didn't get enough during the error of Colonialism. Yu don't respect us as Africans. Did you ask us Zulu people if we agree to this nonsense. We are in a process of dismantling boders from Cape to Cairo. Yu come here with your narcissists tendency to think Africa is to be chopped and subdivided. Dream on....
@@emr7712 It matters because we can't be ruled by British again. The government will never allow this. Even if your'll get 100% votes still the government makes the final decision.
At the cape freedom day, there were more colored and black people than white, it was a spectacular show from the true capetonians who want Cape Independence, go check out the march on Freedom day and you will see... spectacular... Go check out ... made me so happy to see
An independent Cape would still have all its trade and other relationships in place. We would simply have a different kind of democratic system. Public perception is that it would be some kind of violent separation. It would not .. just an unscrambling of a messy national dish.🤔
@@sammyedwards7080 Now that is why the DA don’t like the idea. In the Independent Cape system, the president will be unimportant.. if you want an insight into how a real democracy works, check out the Swiss system. It is possibly the only one that accommodates groups that would otherwise be at each other’s throats. Leon Louw and Frances Kendall wrote a book about the system called ”South Africa The Solution” .. Kendall also wrote “Let the people govern” and “The Heart of the Nation” .. it’s a workable model, but politicians fear losing power and privilege. We are on the cusp of very exiting things .. hard to see around corners though 🤔
@@Jouantiese It will not be up to the ANC to grant it. Either the Cape will take it, or it won’t happen. With what power would the ANC prevent it .. the army .. police? 🤔
Our country is in a debt trap according to the citizens news report this morning? How would this effect secession? Will the seceded country carry this debt, or would the leading party who caused this debt trap be held accountable?
I agree it's a challenge yes. There is of course also the fact that the cape has been been part of The Cape colony the union of South Africa and the Repuplic of South Africa all in the last 120 years . There might be life in change yet.
@leonardorjioffor6683 The only constant is change and I would be very surprised if South Africa proper remains the same political unit over the next 30 years. I think guns bullets blood and money will be involved to the ends to give it shape. How it will look I am not sure but I am sure it will be different then today.
Emmmm, so how much will the independent cape pay for the western cape land and assets (e.g. ports) which belong to all South Africans? Yes, it can be argued that people in western cape also have claim to rest of South Africa, but the the rest of South is fine with Western Cape being part of SA. So the leaving party must make an offer surely? This is a rubbish idea: if you argue cultural self determination you must be willing to be buy space for your culture; like Orania did. Things like like are just fear businesses dressed up as genuine causes: follow the money people. This is merely emotional stir up for donations. Ask these people to show how they spend your money.
Alec is asking valid questions and you failed to address them with cohesive arguments. You keep on harping on like a broken record about the survey and referendum. I live in Cape Town and would support Cape Independence. But you need to address the perceptions surrounding independence for the broader population to get onboard. You also need a campaign to raise awareness and educate the general public before you can call for a referendum. I have no idea what the full implications of an exit would be and I am sure many other do not know either.
the reason why it probably wouldn't get the support from places like Gugulethu, Kayalitsha, Kayamandi etc. is bcs most of those people have a lot of family in the EC..what would that mean for them? having to cross a border each time?? getting a job permit?? that'd be insane
Well sure sounds better than our future with the present govt. We are now officially a country that is in a debt trap. We must give it back to whom it belongs....debt made by our ruling party without concidering the impact on the people.
Please remind us all when Africa was "united". Was it when various illiterate stone-age tribes had nothing better to do than slaughtering each other on a regular basis?
@@jadesingleton4110 Me too no matter how much we tell them to leave us alone they just won't do that, annoying like flies. They are so desperate to be in our country, they rather die than to return to there home country, talk about extreme desperation.
That would be a Great move!! It would show up the rest of the Country 🇿🇦 who needs to run our land we desire all our people to prosper and live a cleaner inviroment..if one sees the inner city of Durban it's a crying shame..our parks roads are rundown our municipality is almost non existence..a Beautiful city with lush vegetation
The South African government supports the independence of Western Sahara from the Kingdom of Morocco, and that is why we Moroccans are for the independence of the Western Cape and Orania.
Sample size of 1080 and calling it representative? It´s 2023... with an estimate of roughly 7 Million people in the Western Cape - we trust a survey of 1080 samples? I am supportive of the thought of independence for WC, but see a lack of realistic approach. Not better than the current political party across.
Is this charlatan even South African? He does not speak like one. Brexit , Scot-exit , now Cape-exit? Wants to be Britishly hip in good old South Africa? This basement store Nigel Farage must give us a break, He does not deserve the attention.
You need to look at the tradeoffs and are they against or in favor of the country or the Cape when doing so. And i think irrefutably the Cape is going to eventually become the economical hub because with less problems than everywhere else, its only normal that the economy will grow there and that people naturally want to live where their hard earn tax actually affords them services, rather than some old fashioned commy standing on a podiums stealing it and then wanting to kill them because of skin colour. Fk id Vote Cape independence just to fking Spite the ANC, EFF and all the stuck in the past dumbshits who vote for them, if it means shining light on their fking arrogance, and how a bunch of butt hurt children cant tell more developed people whats what because they themselves have nothing to show for all their bitching.
Extremist views (Be it EFF rhetorics or CAPEXIT etc) will gain momentum as we get closer to election year, expect this to get much more traction when the DA looses majority in WC 2024. Province will be ruled by co-alition (including Gauteng)
Yeah man ...the far left and the far right use ppl fears and populism to gain an advantage. And its all thanks to the ANC for this rise of toxic political sides
Why Do You Want To Separate The Country Why ....For What ....For Who ...This Is Stupid ...It Gonna Cause An Unnecessary War ....Black People Wont Agree ....
Especially us Zulus. We view this clown as a Colonial demogoudge. He came from London to re do what his evil uncestors did. If he doesn't stop this nonsense. He will die or disappear....
I hope that the proponents of independence are prepared to subject themselves to such scrutiny because politicians throughout the world are guilty of these transgressions. Anything other than This is a waste of time.
And let me guess this guy will be King of the freed cape? Lording over the blacks? Enjoying the lovely weather and making demands. No. Why don’t they ever run in Europe? I don’t understand they hate it so much there - move to the Netherlands. It’s beautiful there.
Allec I need you to ask these cape indipence guys...what is their main reason for wanting to separate w.c from the rest of the country.. what is so special about western cape
The constitution allows for this. It says something about large groups of people in a geographic area having the right not to be government by those they didn’t vote for. Basically the WC has rejected the ANC in majority for almost 30 years.
You should stop talking for our coloured people, Just give back our land. Let our people decide for ourselves. Stop talking about this Cape Independence not for us. Proudly South African.
@@thomasgosling5155 Stop lying to us. We know what's going on here. Don't under estimate our intelligence. If this is a good thing than why hasn't it been done in England or USA?
We don't want the ANC to rule our cape.. so why not vote for the party you believe in and let the coalition sort it out... your vote counts, and the apathy from the voters is what is holding back this dream, don't be one of them... You have a chance to make history, what have you got to loose....
Ppl don't be afraid of Independence for the Western Cape. Namibia and Botswana with less than 2 million people are independent. Lesotho with a small population and economy is independent. Western Cape will be the technical and financial business powerhouse of Africa based on sustainable energy development and AI. And underwritten by Rupert, John Gore, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and the US. If Singapore can do it, so can the Western Cape. I'm Coloured and a proud Western capie ❤ Independence now.
A real possibility...suspect the ANC has a win here the Cape has a win here, the DA ambitions go down the toilet...The DA looses out on National ambitions. The ANC secures a marginally reduced SA whilst securing political power for another X number of years looting etc without a capable opposition...its "remain in power" that is Africa's maxim...not economic competence.(AKA Mugabe)...Spinning off the Cape is not entirely unappealing on this basis for the ANC...separately this could trigger a Kwazulu-Natal exit...now that is a recipe for conflict...that sits on South Africas economic corridor & Port access...notice how similar this is to the breakdown of Yugoslavia...Belgrade was not too concerned when Slovenia went on its way but when Bosnia wanted the same we had genocide et al... This is not suggesting the same trajectory is likely for SA but there seems to be a stark similarity...The Western Cape Independence is going to happen. The Coloured community is likely to drive this. Having been disenfranchised twice they are probably "Gatvol!"...
I am pro independence. But this brics thing is scaring me now. Its getting stronger and countries like china and Russia might pressure the anc to do something about the growing independence movement... What is the answer to these fears?
Hell man i get very upset when a brit who obvouusly doesnt know anthing about polotics how long has he lived in Cape Town man he hasnt a clue he cant even speak africaans our premier on the other hand who is part of a compentant number of people who govern the Western Cape rejects the whole idea of a referendem please dont insult his inteligence has he even spoken to the coloured comunities who represent a large vote for the DA and will contiue to do so please go back to the Uk with your ludicrous ideas we love Cape Town and we will always support the DA
100 % support
Well done Phil . A hell of a lot of hard work has been done. Jack Miller is also a man of integrity.
58% of white people in Cape Town
What hard work?
Phil, never give up. Great work you and your organisation are doing.
Kerl pushing but here in Africa your dream of a white nation is impossible, there nothing folks can do about it, it's dead on arrival
the future looks great for the Cape. let go for it - #Capeindependence
Im coloured and i fully support Cape Independence. As a coloured persin in WC we are the majority yet natuonal government discriminates against us. Theres places in the country that uf the racial quotas law is passed then we cant find any work there. Even in Cape Town where we are the majority the laws still put black people above us in terms of percentages. So i am in full support of Cape Independence.
even the whites will still treat you like minority.....rather stand up for urselves as coloreds
What are you talking about. You and black people are seen as all blacks just like in USA. The whites are oppressing your'll and the blacks dumass. The white colonizers still haven't returned the land to black people they stole before 1994, till now they haven't returned it. Now you call that freedom to the blacks? Wake up and stop isolating yourself from your people.
Only stumble block is, cape independence calls a referendum, the govt shoots it down. Then the international route should be taken. Which will take two to three years. We are in a debt trap, and time is of essence. Fortunately there is a group which forms the majority of the minority, and who have completed the international route. Hopefully cape independence will utilize their expertise.
What is very important it will be the first time people of the Western Cape are asked what they want . Yes a first world country all taxes will be abolished.But every bank account will have a small Levy . It will be like a tax free haven for international investors, who are waiting for the Western Cape to be a country on its own
.
So the Cape can be sold to the highest foreign bidder...big fat hope...
@@sammyedwards7080 well i think they would be interested in replicating the Irish, Dutch or Singaporean model..which really has been very successful
I don't like this tax plan. It would bankrupt the country over night . It would incentavice cash economy on the one hand and a citizenry that avoids using banking services in the jurisdiction. 3rd party financial intermediaries surcumventing the banking sector is already a reality . Think crypto space. The alternative if you want to force the point is a financial police state. At this point you can kiss financial flows in terms of investment and innovation goodbaaaaaaai. By the way what will the currency be. What will its Fiat base be (I presume it will be backed by some sort of assept or mix of with dept being the primary or defacto only asset) and how will it interact with the external space in terms of trade and conversion .
@@lm_b5080 That will never happen in Africa this is not Europe and will never be.
@@lm_b5080 no, it's not what majority of the people want...
The WC should go for it. Gauteng is in tatters, KZN not looking much better, and the rest of South Arica in the same or worse position.
I think that's a little harsh on Gauteng. Our air quality isn't the worst in the world. We have decent roads, around the potholes. We have water most of the time. It's not like there's billions going to hospitals that don't see the money?
Our police and fire departments aren't using outdated broken machinery. We're just fine😂
I support the idea that the ANC and the DA do not represent anybody but themselves. The only alternative I can genuinely support is one that has at its foundation the Constitution. Politicians will have to swear allegiance to the Constitution. This must mean that those who swear to uphold the Constitution will be judged much more harshly for failing to do so. Special courts will have to be established to deal with these rogue elements. Politicians will have no sway over the outcome. It will be completely under the courts. The people must have the power to remove any politician who fails the Constitution.
What does a black care about a piece of paper - re Constitution? Rules are made to be broken. What Black upholds the “Rule of Law”? Nil. It’s all settled with the AK47.
Cape Independence will never happen. It is a dream. How will South Africa give up Cape Town and Western Cape? And possibly like Northern Cape and Eastern Cape.
I support and want Cape independence. No one wants to live with ANC & EFF.
We are different in the Cape.
I was interviewed in these polls🤩👍🏻
What is the benefit of breaking away?
@@PE-Decoded not having anc or eff ( having a gov we actually voted for )
@@PE-Decoded
If it's not obvious to you then I'll spell it out:
TO GET AWAY OR RID OF ANC AND EFF...
is that clear enough??
@@clarkyo7024 If you say you want a govt you vote for, we live in South Africa which is a democracy. No one's political or economic rights/freedoms are limited. And plus, the Western Cape is under the DA. It is far better than many parts of South Africa. Look at how well the DA has done there.
@@clarkyo7024 Go to Europe then. No EFF or ANC there
I am yet to be convinced that Cape Independence is viable, at the moment I favor unity, but I strongly support having the referendum.I feel it is an important test of the adherence to democratic principles of the NatGov. The more opposition there is to the referendum, the more I will support independence.
I believe their position is to first favour federalism (devolution of powers) and if that proves too difficult due to political meddling of a certain centralised tyranny, then full suzerainty is the last resort. Both options would give the WC effective self-governance - its just a matter of context and which would be the path that least upsets the applecart.
Think the Khoi and San would support this, but we need to make the whole of the old Cape Province independent
@@mariepistorius2333shut up and go to Europe and form your white nation, not in Africa
I'll never ever vote for DA as i told my self, i think people who don't want to stay in South Africa they must leave immediately they must go abahambe.
in 1994 i predicted in around 37 years the Cape Would be Independant......amazing how this could just be....
Well we were warned before the ANC took power what we were dealing with, but clearly everyone mistook a golden shower for a Rainbow. Its a shame a country or people's disposition and future is always decided by the most ignorant masses and not the intelligent few who run the data to conclude the modt efficient outcome for all down the line. Hence you get the shit we are in now. Because i was born at the end of the old era, but even i could see it was stupid to put inexperienced tribals in charge of a complex developed economy of European design. Fk we were 2000 years ahead of the people around here. But now, we chose to spare feewings instead of sticking to our independence, the whole fking reason our people came to this fking spec of dirt to begin with and fking bled for it.
Well done CIAG I have seen people change their mind on this and I like to think that I've helped in that. It's no longer a pie in the sky idea anymore.
It's not so much about changing a mind it's more about the practical implications. Craig is heavy on sentiment and extreamly light on details. We all know populist politics are at the order of the day and Craig is firmly in this mold. I recomend he provides some clarity on how sutch a goverment will work look and function.
Clarity on:
1 National assets
2. Security arrangements
3 Goverment funding
4. Currency
5. Immegration
6. Citizen register and citizenship in general
7. Nuclear policy and regulator
8. Political structure and power dinamic
9. Minority rights
10.Taxasion mechanics and tax policy
11. Dept burden and depth funding policy
12. Shape of beurocracy
13. Citizens rights and responsibility.
The current political class might have the stomach for it. We do however need to guard against a situasion where the most dinamic and ambitious amugst this class sets the Cape up as just another African clepto inclave. When I hear people like Greg harping on and on, on populist rhetoric I can already see that the titanic is steaming full speed ahead.
@@shortMario you can find that information from Cape exit and the CIAG's websites. They have also explained all those concerns in other interviews. As I under stand it the CIAG is the lobby group pushing the movement and talking to politicians while the Cape exit group is working on the knuts and bolts that you mentioned in your comment. The push now is to get a referendum I'm sure there will be an information drive to inform people of how it will work well before we get to voting for it but if you want that information you can definitely get it on the websites and many interviews on TH-cam.
The DA should should get it into their stubborn heads that they will never get any meaningful support in the other provinces outside the Western Cape.
During the last elections Cape Independence gained very little support.
Not sure Cape independance can be measured via a election that is looking for a mandate that denies the very idea of 'Cape independance' A national election even one looking for local governance by implication has seded as mutch independance as it can. Sutch an election is looking for a integrated political management plan and is not an appropriate forum or question regarding independance.
The last election was asking who should govern not who should be governed.
Then there is the question of competence. I am sure the electorate prefers a competent management over a independant one. The party in the Cape who happens to be attached to competence has a mutch bigger federall structure and relies on its base in the Cape to aspire to a much bigger national program. For this party to lose the Cape will result in its federal structure giving up much bigger ambitions and its not really designed or mandated to do so. It will require a splitting of this party and currently no faction within the party is pursuing such a course. The national management would also almost surtainly disciple such a faction before or at the point it gets traction.
This independance campaign is and probably should be seen in isolation of a national political platform.
Two different ends are persued at the same time. Primary end being competent political management and secondly independance . Both can of course be persued at the same time in parallel and in the best case they could merge in a space where both ends are met.
Any way the political risk for the leadership class is to heavy and as sutch at this point its a non starter. It is however good to think about this scenario and have a template for succession in place. It's a matter of time before the rather artificial construction that is South Africa unravels in a failed state at this point Cape independence will be a De Facto reality anyway. It will do the Cape and representatives of all viable political entities very well to plan for such an eventuality. The question becomes where borders will be and what geographical entities could combine well to become viable political vehicles. Some areas in the current South Africa proper will probably devolve into areas where no political hegemony can be established. Mutch Like Puntland and Somaliland in the current somalia. We might also see a Syria type situation where groups and factions are in De Facto control without international recognition a "Emiratization" process so to speak.
Cape indépendance will be a practical reality as apposed to a deliberate political program.
@@shortMario You literally cannot even spell independence? 🤦♂
You're "Not sure Cape independance can be measured via a election" in which everyone was allowed to vote?
But you think it can and should be measured by a contrived poll "looking for a mandate that -denies- *promotes* the very idea of 'Cape independance'"?
Have I got that right?
Alrighty then... 🙄
@budyza180 God I love the fight in you. Castrating my efforts on the obvious intellectual faillings that my lack of spelling ability implies. It gives emediate credence to your well punctuated and gramaticly pristine arguments. It really does. Hats of with a low bow to you sir.!!!!!
To anwser your question I don't think Cape independance can be achieved via a ballet. It will take the barrel of a gun or a defacto situasion as and when South Africa proper fails as a unitary political entity.
What I was under the impression we were discussing was the hypothetical. My only point was that under the last election the electorate was not voting on the issue of independance since it was not implicitly on the ballet. You might and rightfully so draw a conclusion that explicitly the direction of the result showed little appetite for independance.
I am simply putting it to you that what you conclude might be skewed by the actual question asked . I am exploring the space for the possible meaning it might hold.
Most voters are illiterate drabble like me. Our votes are not sophisticated proxy expressions on the political future on terms of self determanation . I would venture that its an actual expressions of the actual question at hand at the ballet. My understanding of this question had little to do with cape independance. It had e erything to do with which team would you like to represent you in the current political dispensation.
@@shortMarioobviously the team that puts all citizens first and work towards democracy. Our country according to the citizens media reported that we are now officially in a debt trap. A barrel of a gun????? Exactly what the loan sharks want, more desteuction, so they can take over a very broken down country. Nope. We should not fear resistence. Rather focus on who is responsible for this debt trap and break away from it.
Nobody is sure of anything hence why. I envy those countries that just had a revolt and chased out their problems saving them decades of bureaucracy in a system captured by their captors, like we are. Because we could fix SA like tomorrow if we decided, fk the ANC, bring the mob, the flag and a guillotine, and watch the helpless basteds run for the fking hills. But nooo, everyone is sitting around expecting millions of political parties to save them, when none are sure what will happen or what is the most sufficient course of action. So we sit and suffer instead, very logical.
Phil Craig 100% spot on.
Great work and forethought… Brilliant!
Not sure how the 'phone pole' was conducted. But you can't trust a Telkom 'landline' phone pole. People who still have 'landlines' are simply no longer representative of the average person in SA today.
wait, landlines still exist>>
Exactly the same argument holds against the Freedom Charter being derived from the opinions of all South Africans. The country still had group areas back then so it stands to reason that those collecting statements containing "The Will of the People" were not allowed into certain areas. Whether it was right or wrong doesn't matter but it does indicate that the Freedom Charter cannot claim to be the _Will of the People_ as it is often purported to be.
British person here. If the western cape gained independence I would probably move there. I have previously visited the region and considered immigrating but with the way I think SA is headed, in 10yrs time my quality of life would actually be worse off. However I believe that the western cape is well ahead of the rest of the nation and would see an independent Western Cape as a massive opportunity for me
Obviously as a foreigner I have no say in this debate because ultimately it is up to the people to decide, however I will silently be showing my support (even if it is just for personal reasons)
If cape gets independence I'm moving there for retirement 😂
Cape would of course join Western Block while rest of SA the eastern block in Cold War 2
Yeah look the UK i hear is having its own troubles, troubles we have had for a long time, infact we are ahead of the world regarding problems. But its difficult to say when we unfortunately have a very very outdated and very stupid population who keep outvoting the smarter few who actually understand anything. And stupidity can lead us anywhere.
You want to come here while i cant wait to leave. I have so many qualifications and i cannot find work or anyone that can pay me a living wage, and i cannot afford to live like this for long because how will i retire? Id be better off blowing my brains out when i come of age because as it stands, i wont be able to afford to live.
Stay in your homeland. Where you belong. You know. Like your government says about immigrants. Stay out.
Yep. Hate to be a bearer of bad news..but.. sorry mates...not in your lifetime
Spain refused to give Barcelona independence, the same will be true of SA 🙌
Keep pushing this message so that people ACTUALLY go out and vote
So what the hell has Spain got to do with us? Idiot!!!
Nice dream, but It’ll never happen.
Picture being at the arse end of Africa, and the entirety of Africa (and BRIC) sanctioning you.
Not a great outlook there.
And if you do get it to work, the influx over your border will eventually break you anyway.
Not so. Read the charter.
@@grahamleigh8398 huh?
@@grahamleigh8398 SA won't allow it...
there will be claims for land,and ultimately COLLAPSE this country 🙄
Yes for independence
100% support independence.
Great idea, with oil and gas off the West Coast you're dreaming! They will never let it go!
Best to actually support the DA and the Multi-Party Charter for 2024!
Get the youth to rise and register and vote!
Absolute madness, Im not sure what these ppl are thinking
I think it's quite obvious. They can see that SA is a sinking ship (thanks to the ANC kakistocracy) and so they're determined to not go down with it. Conceptually it's perfectly reasonable.
@@oodlesofnoodles4660 If ANC is bad we will replace them with better leaders. There's no good reason to brake a country into small pieces and destroy the economy
@@oodlesofnoodles4660 If you have a problem with South Africa leave this country.
@@wahwah7701 destroy the economy? Our economy is barely ticking over, and it won't get any better with our current national government and policy direction. We need a fundamental shift in the political landscape to get out of this mess, and that may include Cape independence if the rest of SA is content with the status quo.
@@LonelyTreeSunset Stop lying to us South Africa is doing better than all European nations as we speak. America's homelessness problems has spiraled out of control, people are living in camping tents on the streets. Britain has energy problems and lost millions of jobs, nonstop protests and white British middle class is destroyed they are all broke, the standard of living is unbearable that's how its expensive. We South Africa are part of BRICS friends with China the richest country in the world right now and also friends with Russia the strongest militarily country in the whole world. We have more than 10 natural resources and recently discovered Gas and Oil. 55 Chinese companies have signed investments with us to come and assist us to industrialize this country to its fullest potential so we can also sell finished products not just raw materials. So we are doing fine and we are gonna be a global super power very soon. So we don't need this independents bullsh*t, watch and learn and let the pro's (Chinese) handle this. As for independents forget about it, it will never happen, if you want a coup here South Africa, try and do that you will get it I promise you.
Not even from the Western Cape, but i have wanted this to happen for years. Give me a reason to leave my home town and move back to Cape Town
Pity it won't happen
i`m from a different province and i will vote for it to be passed, and i assume there are many more with the same view.@@geraldlekhowane8736
Freedom
@@geraldlekhowane873612:59
one never knows. There is another non political group who have completed the international route...not political. This route does not require the government to approve the referendum. Its going strong from what ive heard, and it has no political affiliation but legally based on the will of the people
Keep pushing Craig!!!!
...push what exactly? Nonsense? Stupidity? We would burn 🔥 everything before you see that Nonsense.....
@@njabulozikhali4966 typical! Like to see you try!
@@njabulozikhali4966 who is the ‘we’?
@@kenernstzen2407 every time a white person gets a glimpse of the truth. They either believe to be threatening a person who they talking too. Or they start insulting a person 🤷. Really a sign of limited intellect. Yu wanna tell me that 😏 yu can't think of anything to say apart from vomiting insults.
Here is what you need to know: Africa is for Africans, black people. Yu are settlers here. It's historic fact. Originally yu were so evil to chop our continent amongst yourselves. We are on the revolution to dismantling boders. Yu are dreaming of creating a country within our country. Yu crazy. No one is stopping yu from immigration....... hambaaa Sathane
@@kenernstzen2407 If your'll want to see a coup like it's happening in rest of Africa. Try and do this nonsense your'll will wish your'll were never born. We are not scared of your'll
What about the people who are not in the Cape. ?
What about them ate you concerned about exactly. I am not in the Westerncape and the prospect does not bother me on a individual level. Structurally yes. It would be good if you could lay out your issues for clarity
if you believe in the rule of law & democratic values..then move to the WC?
@lm_b5080 If you mean by Democratic values. The tyranny of a elected class, a patronage network, decision by committees and courts,
Legislative paralysis, progressive decay and political horse trading then no thank you. If by the rule of law you mean the police and prosecutional capacity to keep the boot of tyrany on the throught of those with capacity and a mind to think openly then no thanks. I will stay in my dictatorship with no democracy and where the rule of law is substituted by pr Conservative usage where the principme of If the nabours do not complain there is no problem rain's supreme.
They will be subject to controlled immigration.
Tough shit for them.
I do NOT believe in LucK. But GooD LucK with the INITIATIVE.
11:06, 19:38
15:38 Rob Hersov is the BEST candidate for Cape Independence presidency than Gayton McKenzie
I doubt the DA will ever have the guts to test the voters of the W Cape to ask the same question…”should W Cape stay within the Republic of South Africa, or should it break away?” The DA will NEVER HAVE THE GUTS to do it.
The DA is not that dumb
They already said they would support it
I think you are seriously underestimating the DA. Never mind calling for a referendum, if support is big enough the DA would just break away with or without national approval.
@@mervinmarias9283 lol stop lying. You think we'd let you break off our city. You need a military for that, I've never see a DA military.
@@mervinmarias9283 I hope you are right. I am one of the many that vote for the DA because they have administered the W Cape really well. But I doubt that they will allow a referendum….if they do however, I will be the first to apologise
Cape Party got my vote in the last municipal elections. They will get my vote provincially next year. 🙌🏼
This is a pipe dream. But you cannot explain how impossible this is to separatists. They get very ticked off on this subject.
It will take a merciless army with nuclear weapons ready to use them to secure a productive province out of national government.
We are all allowed to dream.
Current government is so useless, private citizens had to supply the state with ammo during the july riots. No need for a army with nuclear
He should go back to the UK & call for London iindependence
Imagine this people trusting English man to divide us 😢
Ai these people who support this nonsense do not see history in the making.....it has always been a western strategy "divide and conquer " and its a white culture, it resonate with them far more and others are just used as many have been used through the formation of apartheid.
London doesn't need independence as England is not a sycophantic and corrupt government :)
@@masellononyana816 EISH WHITE PEOPLE OF SOUTH HAVE THE SAME MENTALITY OF ISREAL
Eks Vannie Kaap... Lol this idea is stupid. 😂
Yes, the stupidest thing I ever heard...
It would be nice when cape town gets a coloured Premier. Ek is n swartmens maar ek glo dit tyd vir die Kaap want daai ander mense kyk net vir ryk mense en toeriste en vergeet hoe die mense Swaar kry.
Nonsensical idea. If you do not like a unitary state, you are free to emigrate
actually a very fair point. Also there is no good international president to follow. That being said if it can happen and happen peacefully we will see a evolution of the political reality in Africa that could bennifit a lot of identities across the continent . The idea does however rais many practical spectres that is perhaps unsolvable in a dysfunctional south Africa proper.
@@shortMario it is unrealistic to expect any part of any country to just decide to declare independence will give rise to hundreds of states in Africa. Name a country that has successfully tried to do this without the approval of a central government? If you look at Scotland or Catalonia that tried to do it, central governments at the very least have to agree to a referendum. Western Cape cannot just decide on their own otherwise the world would not recognise that "country". If they are not happy living as part of South Africa, they should emigrate.
@ChrisMuzo83 That is sort of my point. No international president exists. If sutch a president where to be set it could open the flood gates. I would venture a guess that this is one of the key reasons the political class is apposed to sutch a move. It implied the devolution of political authority away from strong central control to a more localised base. Think of it as entropic mutch in the way as empires of old devolve into the constitute entities once the momentum of hegemony starts rubbing at the core of the human desire for individual expression. It's the point where those who are subjugated to rule revolts when the centre us to weak to impose its will. The maintenance of order becomes directly in conflict with the desire of personal expression. The historic president does exist in the context of a a collapse in Central power or some external crisis that facilitates the unraveling. I can't think of a modern or historic example that did not happen at the sharp edge of a sword or the hot blazing barrel of a gun....
@@ChrisMuzo83thank you very much the whole ideas is from none natives, it's the ideas of whites Europeans living in South Africa, but they can as well move back to where they ce from to form their so called independent nation, certainly not in Africa
@@ChrisMuzo83 Perfect respond. They think they can do as they like without the governments approval. They are in for a shock because what they want will never happen.
It didn't work overseas and will never work in South Africa.
western cape's national anthem should be the queen song sung by freddie mercury we want to break free
😂😂😂
That should be the Cape Independence movement anthem, once the WC is independent it can be "We are the champions"!👍
Phil Craig sounds like he just arrived from England. Sorry but CTown is not Gibraltar 😂
Exactly.....
He must go and cut up England into tiny pieces that sh*t is not happening here for the next 100 years.
You judge a man's ideas and sincerity by his accent?
Man is really dreaming.. 😂😂
@@oodlesofnoodles4660 his British born boy who failed as Sales man
PIPEDREAM 😂😂😂..
I'm coloured and the 58% majority ..where I come from PPL say his dreaming
So true, they want another England here in the WC...
Mr colour your a shame, Africans are not colour people, dream well, but you colours or white will never never take any potion of land in Africa to create your own country, never never never never, dead on arrival
You didn't come to the Freedom march on Freedom day in April this year.. it was mostly coloured people marching.. we are so proud of our cape... this is so possible... go research please and you will see it could happen if enough people like you and me understand how it can work.
@@vanessahawtrey6407 keep on wishing APARTHEID.2 will definitely not happen again... Western Cape coalition loading 2023 .Soo if any 1% chance it got will be put in the bin..
@@vanessahawtrey6407if that’s true why aren’t you idiots in power? Why are you letting this man be the face of your movement? Slaves.
Cape independence has the pepsi logo as their flag - that's just not right
No blacks mentioned.
Is it just me that has a problem with a British guy leading WC independence
It doesn't matter who leads what. Ultimately it's who will deliver.
They didn't get enough during the error of Colonialism. Yu don't respect us as Africans. Did you ask us Zulu people if we agree to this nonsense. We are in a process of dismantling boders from Cape to Cairo. Yu come here with your narcissists tendency to think Africa is to be chopped and subdivided. Dream on....
@@emr7712 It matters because we can't be ruled by British again. The government will never allow this. Even if your'll get 100% votes still the government makes the final decision.
Not just you Daniel.
Imagine worse matters his white 😍🤣
I dont see many Coloured & black people who are by farrr.. the majority in the WC appearing to back this.Funny that a POMMY is leading this campaign.
They are dreamers. They think that there will ever be a white area out of African control. If they don't like it, the airport and the ports are open
Exactly Julian.
Exactly 💯..trying to fool us...this is a pure pipedream
At the cape freedom day, there were more colored and black people than white, it was a spectacular show from the true capetonians who want Cape Independence, go check out the march on Freedom day and you will see... spectacular... Go check out ... made me so happy to see
You have a vote, don't waste it... Make dreams come true and its up to you and me.... @@jenodamons5408
An independent Cape would still have all its trade and other relationships in place. We would simply have a different kind of democratic system. Public perception is that it would be some kind of violent separation. It would not .. just an unscrambling of a messy national dish.🤔
And which european will be the president?
@@sammyedwards7080 Now that is why the DA don’t like the idea. In the Independent Cape system, the president will be unimportant.. if you want an insight into how a real democracy works, check out the Swiss system. It is possibly the only one that accommodates groups that would otherwise be at each other’s throats. Leon Louw and Frances Kendall wrote a book about the system called ”South Africa The Solution” .. Kendall also wrote “Let the people govern” and “The Heart of the Nation” .. it’s a workable model, but politicians fear losing power and privilege. We are on the cusp of very exiting things .. hard to see around corners though 🤔
@@kevinjohnson8037 Don’t understand the question 🙃
Cold day in hell before the ANC grants it. They have their own agenda for the WC, currently playing out.
@@Jouantiese It will not be up to the ANC to grant it. Either the Cape will take it, or it won’t happen. With what power would the ANC prevent it .. the army .. police? 🤔
Our country is in a debt trap according to the citizens news report this morning? How would this effect secession? Will the seceded country carry this debt, or would the leading party who caused this debt trap be held accountable?
Very good idea. Very interesting, but the DA is in trouble.
That will never happen, it's just a pipe dream, firstly Cape was colonised, DA is not native, trying to run the American dream in SA, hilarious 😂😂😂🚮
WC will be name changed to "Little Israel"...
I agree it's a challenge yes. There is of course also the fact that the cape has been been part of The Cape colony the union of South Africa and the Repuplic of South Africa all in the last 120 years . There might be life in change yet.
@@shortMarioday dreamer continue in your dreams
@leonardorjioffor6683 The only constant is change and I would be very surprised if South Africa proper remains the same political unit over the next 30 years. I think guns bullets blood and money will be involved to the ends to give it shape. How it will look I am not sure but I am sure it will be different then today.
Emmmm, so how much will the independent cape pay for the western cape land and assets (e.g. ports) which belong to all South Africans?
Yes, it can be argued that people in western cape also have claim to rest of South Africa, but the the rest of South is fine with Western Cape being part of SA. So the leaving party must make an offer surely?
This is a rubbish idea: if you argue cultural self determination you must be willing to be buy space for your culture; like Orania did.
Things like like are just fear businesses dressed up as genuine causes: follow the money people. This is merely emotional stir up for donations. Ask these people to show how they spend your money.
I’m afraid you’re dreaming. Will NEVER happen.
Go try your luck in Europe boytjies , you won't divide Africa any further
Some of these white settlers have overstayed their welcome here in Africa,
Hi all. You may want to get in Jack Miller on again please. Salute.
If you ever work with Gayton you will lose all credibility and your movement will end.
Alec is asking valid questions and you failed to address them with cohesive arguments. You keep on harping on like a broken record about the survey and referendum. I live in Cape Town and would support Cape Independence. But you need to address the perceptions surrounding independence for the broader population to get onboard. You also need a campaign to raise awareness and educate the general public before you can call for a referendum. I have no idea what the full implications of an exit would be and I am sure many other do not know either.
the reason why it probably wouldn't get the support from places like Gugulethu, Kayalitsha, Kayamandi etc. is bcs most of those people have a lot of family in the EC..what would that mean for them? having to cross a border each time?? getting a job permit?? that'd be insane
@@lm_b5080 do you speak for the Coloured population too?
@@sammyedwards7080 i'm not speaking for anyone..i'm just saying why black communities probably wouldn't be keen on this. its unrealistic
Well sure sounds better than our future with the present govt. We are now officially a country that is in a debt trap. We must give it back to whom it belongs....debt made by our ruling party without concidering the impact on the people.
Yes, yes, yes.
Still a lot of red tape.
Passports to travel in South Africa?
Economy? No mines?
Trying to divide Africa once again
Please remind us all when Africa was "united". Was it when various illiterate stone-age tribes had nothing better to do than slaughtering each other on a regular basis?
Exactly they think we are uneducated like our ancestors and parents. This 2023 that will never happen.
@@wahwah7701why won’t they go back to their homelands in Europe!? I don’t get it?!
@@jadesingleton4110 Me too no matter how much we tell them to leave us alone they just won't do that, annoying like flies. They are so desperate to be in our country, they rather die than to return to there home country, talk about extreme desperation.
Lesotho is a separate Independent country within South Africa, so its very possible 😂
Unfortunately not. The analogy is way off.
It's possible for your white foreign dreams, you people can realise that in Europe not in African soil
Basotho are Africans dummy
@geraldlekhowane8736 So are all races born on the continent, genius.
@@Jouantiese No some are Europeans born in Africa nothing more. Africans are black and have nappy hair
What a bullocks idea...we need to play the long game to fix South Africa.
We need the Cape to have independence.
foolish crowd. use your resources appropriately I beg you!
Question: Will it be another Orania?
he answered this in the interview
That would be a Great move!! It would show up the rest of the Country 🇿🇦 who needs to run our land we desire all our people to prosper and live a cleaner inviroment..if one sees the inner city of Durban it's a crying shame..our parks roads are rundown our municipality is almost non existence..a Beautiful city with lush vegetation
The South African government supports the independence of Western Sahara from the Kingdom of Morocco, and that is why we Moroccans are for the independence of the Western Cape and Orania.
Alec why do you appear to be pro Gayton? You now live here! Wake up!!
So if you are out of the province at that time you dont get membership?
Sample size of 1080 and calling it representative? It´s 2023... with an estimate of roughly 7 Million people in the Western Cape - we trust a survey of 1080 samples? I am supportive of the thought of independence for WC, but see a lack of realistic approach. Not better than the current political party across.
You might want to do some reading on the fundamentals of sampling. Ignorant comment.
Don’t buy yourself your poll for one second.
Is this charlatan even South African? He does not speak like one. Brexit , Scot-exit , now Cape-exit? Wants to be Britishly hip in good old South Africa? This basement store Nigel Farage must give us a break, He does not deserve the attention.
Question: Should Western Cape stay within the Republic of South Africa or should it break away?
You need to look at the tradeoffs and are they against or in favor of the country or the Cape when doing so.
And i think irrefutably the Cape is going to eventually become the economical hub because with less problems than everywhere else, its only normal that the economy will grow there and that people naturally want to live where their hard earn tax actually affords them services, rather than some old fashioned commy standing on a podiums stealing it and then wanting to kill them because of skin colour. Fk id Vote Cape independence just to fking Spite the ANC, EFF and all the stuck in the past dumbshits who vote for them, if it means shining light on their fking arrogance, and how a bunch of butt hurt children cant tell more developed people whats what because they themselves have nothing to show for all their bitching.
Thanks answered
Extremist views (Be it EFF rhetorics or CAPEXIT etc) will gain momentum as we get closer to election year, expect this to get much more traction when the DA looses majority in WC 2024. Province will be ruled by co-alition (including Gauteng)
Yeah man ...the far left and the far right use ppl fears and populism to gain an advantage. And its all thanks to the ANC for this rise of toxic political sides
Why Do You Want To Separate The Country Why ....For What ....For Who ...This Is Stupid ...It Gonna Cause An Unnecessary War ....Black People Wont Agree ....
Especially us Zulus. We view this clown as a Colonial demogoudge. He came from London to re do what his evil uncestors did. If he doesn't stop this nonsense. He will die or disappear....
You need to talk to ULA on Cape Independence
How will this be legally possible...
Its in our constitution and protected by international law.
Good
Survey nor a true reflection. This bil wil never see the light of day.
Cape Independence in Europe
I hope that the proponents of independence are prepared to subject themselves to such scrutiny because politicians throughout the world are guilty of these transgressions. Anything other than
This is a waste of time.
And let me guess this guy will be King of the freed cape? Lording over the blacks? Enjoying the lovely weather and making demands. No. Why don’t they ever run in Europe? I don’t understand they hate it so much there - move to the Netherlands. It’s beautiful there.
ANC rules supreme...
Please explain! 68 or 58 as per title?
58% if you count the unsure people, 68% if you just count the yes and no...
Allec I need you to ask these cape indipence guys...what is their main reason for wanting to separate w.c from the rest of the country.. what is so special about western cape
The constitution allows for this. It says something about large groups of people in a geographic area having the right not to be government by those they didn’t vote for. Basically the WC has rejected the ANC in majority for almost 30 years.
@@MoreThanRuan there A C was in power since 1994 to 2008 dummy
White dreams
You should stop talking for our coloured people, Just give back our land. Let our people decide for ourselves. Stop talking about this Cape Independence not for us. Proudly South African.
That’s exactly what the referendum will do, give the people what they want.
@@thomasgosling5155 Stop lying to us. We know what's going on here. Don't under estimate our intelligence. If this is a good thing than why hasn't it been done in England or USA?
Ramaphosa is too weak.Malema is the man.
Wishfull thinking at its best, highly improbable of executing on this phantasy.
We don't want the ANC to rule our cape.. so why not vote for the party you believe in and let the coalition sort it out... your vote counts, and the apathy from the voters is what is holding back this dream, don't be one of them... You have a chance to make history, what have you got to loose....
Ppl don't be afraid of Independence for the Western Cape. Namibia and Botswana with less than 2 million people are independent. Lesotho with a small population and economy is independent. Western Cape will be the technical and financial business powerhouse of Africa based on sustainable energy development and AI. And underwritten by Rupert, John Gore, Elon Musk, Bill Gates and the US. If Singapore can do it, so can the Western Cape. I'm Coloured and a proud Western capie ❤ Independence now.
A real possibility...suspect the ANC has a win here the Cape has a win here, the DA ambitions go down the toilet...The DA looses out on National ambitions. The ANC secures a marginally reduced SA whilst securing political power for another X number of years looting etc without a capable opposition...its "remain in power" that is Africa's maxim...not economic competence.(AKA Mugabe)...Spinning off the Cape is not entirely unappealing on this basis for the ANC...separately this could trigger a Kwazulu-Natal exit...now that is a recipe for conflict...that sits on South Africas economic corridor & Port access...notice how similar this is to the breakdown of Yugoslavia...Belgrade was not too concerned when Slovenia went on its way but when Bosnia wanted the same we had genocide et al... This is not suggesting the same trajectory is likely for SA but there seems to be a stark similarity...The Western Cape Independence is going to happen. The Coloured community is likely to drive this. Having been disenfranchised twice they are probably "Gatvol!"...
Nonsense, I`m afraid. The ANC has medium and long-term plans for the WC. They have numbers, nuff said.
You think the government is just gonna give up the gas and oil rich Western Cape? Wake up, no one in the whole world would do that.
Lol with what border and what Army 😭😂
man they need to trust the DA you can say what you want about them but they are verry close to beating the anc so they might make it
I thought he was sponsored by pepsi😂
I’m assuming the people poled were SA citizens only?
Because there are many people who have SA SIM cards who are not SA in the Cape.
he said "we asked them which province they reside in , if they didnt say WC it would hang up"
* select *
❤❤❤
I am pro independence. But this brics thing is scaring me now. Its getting stronger and countries like china and Russia might pressure the anc to do something about the growing independence movement... What is the answer to these fears?
Hell man i get very upset when a brit who obvouusly doesnt know anthing about polotics how long has he lived in Cape Town man he hasnt a clue he cant even speak africaans our premier on the other hand who is part of a compentant number of people who govern the Western Cape rejects the whole idea of a referendem please dont insult his inteligence has he even spoken to the coloured comunities who represent a large vote for the DA and will contiue to do so please go back to the Uk with your ludicrous ideas we love Cape Town and we will always support the DA
WC government is obliged by WC constitution?
British guy want to colonies again??😮😮😮😢😢
This people are playing with fire
Good idea😅
This man and others who push this idea misunderstand what 1994 was...😊
Suicide mission
Speak slower and more clearly.