I experience this from the filament being too dry. Try leaving it in a dry box for any period of time and the same will happen. Doesn’t matter if it’s the cheap or better, or pla+ (pro or whatever).
If filament gets brittle and snaps on it's own (not when mechanically stressed) it's generally been mis-handled at some point or has (somewhat counterintuitively) taken on moisture. Even if it's then dried it can still be chemically damaged or have voids. Here's the first mention I came across: support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d A desiccant couldn't reduce the moisture content enough to cause an issue as far as I'm aware. I also haven't read a manufacturer data sheet with a low threshold on moisture that'd be possible to achieve outside a lab unless I missed something. Here's the data sheet from a common PLA, Ingeo 4043D from Natureworks: www.natureworksllc.com/~/media/Files/NatureWorks/Technical-Documents/Technical-Data-Sheets/TechnicalDataSheet_4043D_3D-monofilament_pdf.pdf Note the drying and storing requirements.
@@PCBurn thanks for the info. Guess i will need to handle my filament better then or science the $-/: out of this issue. I keep my filament in a consistent 70f, zero light, and lowest humidity that i can achieve. I must be doing it absolutely wrong due to these issues with any pla brand.
I have never had a problem until yesterday. I got an out of filament error and I went to check and the entire roll was loosely spooled and then I noticed way to many ends. It had just spontaneous fractured into hundreds of pieces.
I opened a brand new sealed sunlu black pla and was breaking like spaghettis. Some part are solid and 1 meter later unusable. I think it's more a factoty problem with mix or something
Oh yea! There's certainly more than one reason plastics can be brittle. Although it could be the same reason. During the spooling process the PLA can embrittle as I described if it doesn't get spooled during the correct part of its cooling phase. Then it shatters during shipping or when unspooled.
I still think it would be worth trying to dry the filament and see what happens. I have noticed the same thing with a roll of hatchbox. It seems to get worse with the filament age and definitely the bend radius on the spool (less full spool is more brittle).
In this case the humidity of the shop's controlled. The spools fresh out of the (low-temp) drying oven still exhibit the same tendencies. I don't normally bake the PLA because I wasn't seeing a difference.
I'm dealing with this right now. I rolled up and stored a spool of Hatchbox and a did the same with a roll of much cheaper PLA, was a box of multiple colors in smaller spools. I also still had a loose roll of the original white PLA that came with my printer. The included white PLA survived the year of laying out just fine, same with the hatchbox. But the cheap small spool stuff became extremely brittle but only in certain spots and started breaking up mid print between the spool it was feeding from and the tube where it was getting fed into for printing. Based on my experience here, cheap PLA is more of a problem than how it's stored.
And to further explain what I assume you're seeing, now that I'm a bit more awake. I think what you've got is a roll of filament that wasn't properly formed at the factory. When the filament's hot and being cooled it's important that it retains a specific shape. Then it wants to keep it's spooled shape and when a bit is unwound and left for a while, as in the video, that part gets brittle. Because your essentially exerting a mechanical force on it pulling it out of the "shape" it was formed in. Crystalline structure of hard thermo-formed PLA, but "shape" isn't wholely innacurate. The other thing that can happen, that I think your seeing on that cheap spool, is a roll that wasn't handled properly when formed and cooled or when rolled. So as soon as you open it (or maybe even in the bag) it shifts slightly, torque gets applied to the plastic on the entire roll in a way it really doesn't like, and the whole thing embrittles and breaks. Same effect, just roll wide due to poor QC somewhere during manufacturing. Only had that happen with a single small roll that came with an extra cheap printer. All the budget rolls I've purchased have fortunately been fine in that regard.
Thanks for this, I couldn't understand why my filament kept breaking at the start of a new day's print. I would leave the filament inside the feeding tube overnight where it was of course being held straight. This is a black filament which seems a heck of a lot more brittle than the last filament I used, which was white and didn't snap once. Weird!
You're welcome! There's a fair bit of variance between different blends of PLA. Straight PLA is usually brittle; some of the modifiers that blends use give it better resistance to breaking as well.
Funny, because I have the opposite problem. Without issue, I've used at least 5 kg of a particular brand's black PLA filament. Now I've unboxed a spool of the same brand's white filament that was stored unopened for months. So far it's snapped twice in the first 40 grams of printing. When manually bending two feet of the filament inch-by-inch, it had inconsistent ductility. Most of its length was fine, but there were several spots that were quite brittle and weak. As we know from tensile tests in the z-direction, modest variations in ultimate strength correspond to a huge decrease in ductility. The weaker layer lines fracture shortly before they can transmit enough stress to yield the bulk of the material. This allows very little plastic elongation of the test specimen. Besides internal stresses from cooling, scratches or other surface-defect stress concentrators are a possible cause. Also, there could be significant lengthwise variation in material composition (e.g. polymer chain length, moisture/plasticizer/void content). Anyway, the filament run-out sensor is a godsend.
If its brittle and you want to use/mount it, toss the roll into the oven at 50°C for ~30-60min.. then the roll wont snap and you can mount it and use it. And when no in use, place it in a sealed container with moist absorption material. :)
i deal with this constantly. i use alot of the sunlu refills an if a roll last more than a week on a printer thats not inside a enclosure or at least the filament its self isnt, what is in open air from the spool to the run of ptfe is always brittle an i had always figured it was down to moisture. what i dont understand is if its in my enclosure it doesnt happen no matter how long its left and i think its down to the fact theres always at least one or two printers running inside a enclosure (i have a single large enclosure that hold 6 printers 2 enclosures total) so the temp inside is always 30c and above while on the ones in a enclosure by its self or with the filament out side the temps are 21-26c an that is when it happens. i found a roll that has been sitting for over 6months at least an there was quite a bit of the roll that was brittle but as the filament that had been covered come to the top it was fine so its only the filament that is in direct contact with air anything below the outer wrap doesnt seem to be effected. its a pain tho on a couple printers they have pretty long runs for the bowden tubes cause there delta printers so everytime it happens i have to pull a piece thats around a meter to 1.5 at least every time an it happens every single time the printer is left idle for more than an hour or so. so ive found a very small space heater that ive been keeping pointed at the two most problematic printers the past 2 days an so far so good but i have one of them pulled apart right now fixing a clog in the heatbreak was just taking a break an was looking at dehydrators cause i felt like that might helps with this situation.
@@PCBurn I don't think its a mechanical issue, I think its something to do with cheap chinese PTFE tubing, I have a cheap delta printer that I recently upgraded to capricorn tubing and used some of the old tubing as a guide on the input side of my extruder. The PLA only ever cracks when it sits in the PTFE bowden tube that came with my printer, the PLA in the capricorn tube never cracks, its always the filament that sits in the cheap PTFE tube. Makes me think there is some kind of contaminant or plasticizer in the cheap bowden tube that's reacting with the PLA somehow. Also thanks for making a video on this as its the only thing I've found so far about the issue we've been having with PLA breakage in bowden tubes!
Thanks! The problem I have here is, specifically, "mechanical stress" on the thermally formed rolled filament. For a quick recreation you could hold it straight on it's own with a couple of books or weights for a few days. No PTFE required. Some of the filament I had an issue with was spooled (where the end was forced straight) with no PTFE in site. I doubt the PTFE could "leech" into anything, being fairly resistant to moisture or breakdown, but I'd love to see some research on it. I'm only familiar with it's makeup in general.
@@PCBurn I'm gonna try the book thing to verify my theory that its something in the PTFE tube itself at least in my own case, its just wierd that on my delta, the filament that sat in the capricorn tubing after the extruder is 100% fine, but the 3 inch segment before the extruder that sat in the "guide tube" that prevents kinking as it unspools was the only brittle section, especially as the capricorn tubing is held straighter than my input guide tube. Honestly I don't expect it to be due to the PTFE either since its super stable stuff the way we use it in printers, but as my printer was a $300 kit deal from aliexpress about 5 years ago, I can't really rule out the possibility of some form of contamination or substitution of materials in my case.
@@fragger56 Absolutely! I'll pull the same thing here with three different periods (days/week/month) and we'll see how it goes. I've also got different blends of PLA to test. I'm definitely not trying to deny you're getting filament breaking or that there could be other factors at play than mechanical stresses on the PLA. Although if it seems being encased in PTFE (or heck, another plastic of any sort) seems to play a factor I'll look into it more thoroughly. I can't think of a mechanism that'd likely happen by offhand. Plastics are pretty stable. Although re-reading that I'd also expect the points near which the filament is coming off the spool to be under the most stress. If that's where you're seeing it break.
The fan exhaust might be drying the filament out causing the PLA filament to break. I have the same problem with my PLA. I can load and then print a model. As soon as the model is finished printing, the filament snaps at the feeding gears on the back of the printer. I have never had any problems with PLA Tough breaking though.
That's true for thermoplastics in general if they've taken on moisture. It's good advice to keep your printing plastics in a humidity controlled environment. This problem's unrelated to that. They also become brittle and break if they've been deformed once they've taken a shape (i.e. been spooled up in a roll then left forced straight to go into an extruder).
For me, this is very repeatable with all pla filament. For me, it gets brittle between the spool and the extruder. In my setup, the filament takes a pretty sharp bend just before the extruder, and if I leave it for a couple of days it breaks all on its own. If I pull some slack at the end of a print and relieve the tension between the spool and the extruder, it gets less brittle. I think it is how you say: the pla is extruded hot onto the reel and completes final cooling on the reel in a coil. Unspooling the filament cold - flexing the cold filament - seems to initiate embrittlement. This same effect is probably acting on printed pla objects that flex. My "ear savers" flex around my head, and they tend to break pretty quickly, too.
I have to spool up the PLA after use. PETG doesn't exhibit the issue so that stays in the tube. Modified PLA is sometimes different enough to not have a problem over a few days.
Different blends of PLA, or sometimes just changes in the season, will cause it to happen. Spooling it back up when finished should prevent it. If that's not possible I'd go with a modified PLA or PETG whenever feasible; the co-polymers make them less brittle.
Just doesn’t make sense. Got a roll of 3D solutech and same thing happens after it sets a couple hours the filament snaps and clogs up the hotend. Never had this issue before. It’s a nightmare having to completely disassemble the hotend to knock clog out.
In general it'll happen with any PLA that's held out of shape long enough. The amount of time depends on what the blend is and possibly some incidental factors with the way it was mechanically spooled when manufactured. Possibly humidity, although I haven't noticed a difference going from bone-dry in winter to comfortable in summer (with a dehumidifier).
PCBurn! I’ve had it happened after setting on the printer for days. But not after a couple hours and completely brittle all the to the hot end and hard as a rock inside the hotend to where I can’t even clean the nozzle out
Usually, if that's not just a small end section held out of shape, something was horribly wrong during production. New PLA shouldn't do that if it was handled correctly.
EXACTLY what happened to me!!!! I have an AMS lite unit, and the filament in the end of the spool is very "spring-shaped" . So leaving the filament overnight straight inside the ptfe tube made it very brittle!
It is 100% not moisture. I made the mistake of re-spooling a couple of my PLA spools and EVERY re-spool started to randomly snap and break. All stacked in sealed bags with desicant. I have this problem with both PLA+ and cheap PLA
The two solutions are to use a plastic that's more resilient against mechanical stress (modified PLA can be or PETG) or to relieve the mechanical stress by re-winding it when finished. There isn't a way to cheat physics :).
my new problem, brand new pla, straighten overnight then snap. my on direct drive extruder. my solution is pull out the filament from extruder when not used, leave recoil back to spool.
All my printers are direct drive. My humidity lvl is controlled at exactly 50%. I don't bother to store my PLA properly and I have some really old spools, 5 years or even more. Never had a filament break while printing, but it is true the if I leave the filament in the extruder for a couple of weeks I sometimes find it broken. It only happens with the cheap ones, never with hatchbox or similar. And it is just the few inches closest to the extruder, the rest of the spool is just fine. I have no idea why this happens. My only explanation is that the light (UV) affects the PLA. It is always the part that is exposed to the light. The shelves where my spools are resting are far from the windows, but the printers are in a large table next to the windows, although the blinds are usually closed, anyway... the spool is just fine, it is just the exposed filament left in the printer that snaps. That is my experience.
Yea, the companion video linked in the description demonstrates the effect as described. Mechanical stresses on raw PLA. If the PLA's blended with other polymers or is chemically different it'll behave differently.
@@PCBurn I just read the article. The theory of the shape makes a lot of sense. The filament that is closed to the extruder can't coil back again to the curvy form of the spool. I never thought about that. So... I guess the effect is more pronounced in the small spools, or the almost finished spools, where the filament is coiled in a tighter radius than in the big or newer ones?
@@MrPeloseco Usually in PLA without a co-polymer it's just a feature of the plastic. Its radius on formation would matter too, as you're implying. If the manufacturing is bad I've seen them completely shatter as well; that's probably an issue with the cooling when it's initially formed.
I have been struggling for more than a year , and i think this might be my problem. I never had any problems with the printer until i changed filament . The nozzle seems fine, but the pla is super brittle. i am in a wheelchair , only use printer infrequently and when I need to re load the filament ...it can take weeks before I can get someone to help me. Does anyone know of a pla that doesn't have this problem ? I really want to be able to use my printer again but i can't be unloading and reloading filament everytime.
That's problematic with PLA. Some of the modified filaments (PLA+, rapid pla) might not be as brittle on average. I haven't found any to be consistent. Also, PETG doesn't normally have the same issue. If it'll work you may want to default to it.
what about putting it in when it new and put it in but it snaps and fails a print ? i just tryed to do a model tank but it was 5 hours and it only done the flat bit so did not print anything at all i think may been it snaped as saw it trying to feed but it could not ? also what should the room temperature be where the printer is ?
@@PCBurn ok maybe the role then as its the trial one i got with printer i do have anycubic pla grey to try so maybe that be better what is the strongest can put in petg or is there better ? as i am looking to make holding brackets to strength stuff and also clips for cables
@@swiftdetecting Withstands higher temperature and trickier to work with. If the heatbed on your printer is sufficient and the hot-end does not use PTFE, sure. PETG probably has better properties if you don't need to resist higher temperatures. You mentioned clips. If they're going to flex and aren't exposed to strong UV I would try PETG first.
pla breaks from getting old and the humidity of certain areas ..i live in sw florida and i have only a few days until my pla becomes brittle as hell in summer and snaps like that and worse... yes its the cheap basic pla...but moisture causes it... dozens of pla rolls have done this... lucky i only have a few feet left on a roll... i am trying to prevent and also dry ...so far no luck..
This was happening to me on almost every cold start after a few weeks. I put on a capricorn bowden tube and it stopped completely. My guess is it has something to do with the teeth on the coupler cutting into the tube too much over time and scoring the tube, causing it to bend or letting air into that spot.
@@autorepairbymike1356 same on my Ender 3. After 24 hours extruder grips so hard it bites through filament. Ideally a way to remove pressure when printer not in use would be good.
Hey, today i was printing an iron man helmet piece that took over 14 hours, when i came home though it seemed to be that the filament snapped, but I literally just opened the filament. Do you know why it did that? btw i was printing on an ender 3
Could be the end of the spool was suffering from the same issue. It's always a good idea to check the end of the spool and cut it back a bit if necessary before printing. If it's different parts of the roll that are brittle it was probably mis-spooled at the factory.
@@Shay56787 yep, sometimes I've gotten a poorly manufactured roll that's done that. Or one that was re-spooled to a smaller "starter" spool for a pack-in.
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for me the filament keeps breaking at the extruder 2h 43 minutes into the print, every. single. time. without failure, i don't get why it does that.
With multiple different filaments? If the filament is known to be good it'd be something about the way the print is sliced or the way the printer handles it. If that's with a single filament roll try a different brand or blend of it.
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@@PCBurn the filament is good, well known affordable local stuff. i've tried 2 colors and 4 rolls but they all give the same issue. i haven't heard about the way it's sliced being an issue yet...
@ Yea, if it's not the filament it'd have to be something with the printer or way the printer is handling the code. Although personally I'd try a completely different brand of filament. You're right in thinking it's the most likely culprit. And a bad "weak spot" from the manufacturing process would be possible.
@@soniccinos yea, I've noticed that. It's prone to unspooling if it's not bound and shatters when it isn't tightly wrapped. Or worse, snaps in your guide tube.
Funny that every resource I have looked at states cheap quality. Yet, the cheap chinese filament I normally buy is flawless and the only named brand I bought is having this issue. I have had filament sitting for 2 years in my print enclosure, and the named brand is constantly snapping, yet the cheap chinese filament I load up is flawlessly working and no snapping.
Yea, could be down to copolymers used in that case. Or just a different spooling process. As you say, price doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.
i have two filaments from the same company, tecbears, the black will print PERFECTLY. I tried printing with the red and was chasing all kinds of problems. it wasn't until i said F it and put the black spool back on to test and it came out perfect. lol there goes 2 days troubleshooting a non-issue
Sure, could be a problem with that spool or drastically different properties due to.the plastic blend. I've certainly run into issues with different spools from the same manufacturer behaving differently. Moreso with PETG but sometimes with PLA.
@@PCBurn Weird, didn't get a notification until Schlomo replied yesterday. But yeah, I have stuck to an eBay brand called Lioness. Have had no issues with either. I think I just got a bad spool but I had read other comments about that brand having similar issues so I've stayed away. I think to an extent price doesn't always mean quality. The Lioness filament I am paying $24AUD/1KG and it's better than the $35/1KG named brand I spoke about. The named filament I would leave in the printer overnight and would be cracked at the extruder. NEVER experienced that before. Oh well, got through the spool to get it out of my sight, lol.
Yea, that's probably down to one of the plastics having different additives. Unmodified, uncolored PLA usually snaps under stress after a while. Although that might also have to do with how it's handled during spooling (when manufactured)..
You could cause a similar issue with moisture if you abuse the filament enough. But my workshop's humidity controlled and the PLA's (in most cases) additionally stored in a drybox. This is a mechanical property of thermally formed PLA plastic.
Take the PLA out of the printer when finished and buy properly formed spools made of decent quality material. If it's an issue use a PLA with a co-polymer.
I've had this happen to me, with a black roll of inexpensive pla, does it as i am sitting at my desk and randomly ill hear it break.
I experience this from the filament being too dry. Try leaving it in a dry box for any period of time and the same will happen. Doesn’t matter if it’s the cheap or better, or pla+ (pro or whatever).
If filament gets brittle and snaps on it's own (not when mechanically stressed) it's generally been mis-handled at some point or has (somewhat counterintuitively) taken on moisture. Even if it's then dried it can still be chemically damaged or have voids.
Here's the first mention I came across: support.bcn3d.com/knowledge/humid-filament-bcn3d
A desiccant couldn't reduce the moisture content enough to cause an issue as far as I'm aware. I also haven't read a manufacturer data sheet with a low threshold on moisture that'd be possible to achieve outside a lab unless I missed something.
Here's the data sheet from a common PLA, Ingeo 4043D from Natureworks: www.natureworksllc.com/~/media/Files/NatureWorks/Technical-Documents/Technical-Data-Sheets/TechnicalDataSheet_4043D_3D-monofilament_pdf.pdf
Note the drying and storing requirements.
@@PCBurn thanks for the info. Guess i will need to handle my filament better then or science the $-/: out of this issue.
I keep my filament in a consistent 70f, zero light, and lowest humidity that i can achieve.
I must be doing it absolutely wrong due to these issues with any pla brand.
That is weird! Although if I mis-read your initial comment and it's only happening when the filament is off the spool then that'd be expected.
I have never had a problem until yesterday. I got an out of filament error and I went to check and the entire roll was loosely spooled and then I noticed way to many ends. It had just spontaneous fractured into hundreds of pieces.
Yea, I've seen a spool that has an issue somewhere in the middle. Think I've only had that happen once.
I opened a brand new sealed sunlu black pla and was breaking like spaghettis. Some part are solid and 1 meter later unusable. I think it's more a factoty problem with mix or something
Oh yea! There's certainly more than one reason plastics can be brittle.
Although it could be the same reason. During the spooling process the PLA can embrittle as I described if it doesn't get spooled during the correct part of its cooling phase. Then it shatters during shipping or when unspooled.
yeah sunlu is not a good filament. all my sunlu pla filament breaks
I still think it would be worth trying to dry the filament and see what happens. I have noticed the same thing with a roll of hatchbox. It seems to get worse with the filament age and definitely the bend radius on the spool (less full spool is more brittle).
In this case the humidity of the shop's controlled. The spools fresh out of the (low-temp) drying oven still exhibit the same tendencies. I don't normally bake the PLA because I wasn't seeing a difference.
I'm dealing with this right now. I rolled up and stored a spool of Hatchbox and a did the same with a roll of much cheaper PLA, was a box of multiple colors in smaller spools. I also still had a loose roll of the original white PLA that came with my printer. The included white PLA survived the year of laying out just fine, same with the hatchbox. But the cheap small spool stuff became extremely brittle but only in certain spots and started breaking up mid print between the spool it was feeding from and the tube where it was getting fed into for printing.
Based on my experience here, cheap PLA is more of a problem than how it's stored.
Yes, that'd line up with what I was seeing in the video.
And to further explain what I assume you're seeing, now that I'm a bit more awake.
I think what you've got is a roll of filament that wasn't properly formed at the factory. When the filament's hot and being cooled it's important that it retains a specific shape. Then it wants to keep it's spooled shape and when a bit is unwound and left for a while, as in the video, that part gets brittle. Because your essentially exerting a mechanical force on it pulling it out of the "shape" it was formed in. Crystalline structure of hard thermo-formed PLA, but "shape" isn't wholely innacurate.
The other thing that can happen, that I think your seeing on that cheap spool, is a roll that wasn't handled properly when formed and cooled or when rolled. So as soon as you open it (or maybe even in the bag) it shifts slightly, torque gets applied to the plastic on the entire roll in a way it really doesn't like, and the whole thing embrittles and breaks. Same effect, just roll wide due to poor QC somewhere during manufacturing.
Only had that happen with a single small roll that came with an extra cheap printer. All the budget rolls I've purchased have fortunately been fine in that regard.
Thanks for this, I couldn't understand why my filament kept breaking at the start of a new day's print. I would leave the filament inside the feeding tube overnight where it was of course being held straight. This is a black filament which seems a heck of a lot more brittle than the last filament I used, which was white and didn't snap once. Weird!
You're welcome! There's a fair bit of variance between different blends of PLA. Straight PLA is usually brittle; some of the modifiers that blends use give it better resistance to breaking as well.
Funny, because I have the opposite problem. Without issue, I've used at least 5 kg of a particular brand's black PLA filament. Now I've unboxed a spool of the same brand's white filament that was stored unopened for months. So far it's snapped twice in the first 40 grams of printing. When manually bending two feet of the filament inch-by-inch, it had inconsistent ductility. Most of its length was fine, but there were several spots that were quite brittle and weak.
As we know from tensile tests in the z-direction, modest variations in ultimate strength correspond to a huge decrease in ductility. The weaker layer lines fracture shortly before they can transmit enough stress to yield the bulk of the material. This allows very little plastic elongation of the test specimen.
Besides internal stresses from cooling, scratches or other surface-defect stress concentrators are a possible cause. Also, there could be significant lengthwise variation in material composition (e.g. polymer chain length, moisture/plasticizer/void content).
Anyway, the filament run-out sensor is a godsend.
Yep, manufacturing inconsistency is probably one of the most irritating ways that can manifest.
If its brittle and you want to use/mount it, toss the roll into the oven at 50°C for ~30-60min.. then the roll wont snap and you can mount it and use it. And when no in use, place it in a sealed container with moist absorption material. :)
Good tip if it's absorbed moisture. In this case it's the mechanical stresses on the end of the roll; they're fine on the wound bit.
i deal with this constantly. i use alot of the sunlu refills an if a roll last more than a week on a printer thats not inside a enclosure or at least the filament its self isnt, what is in open air from the spool to the run of ptfe is always brittle an i had always figured it was down to moisture. what i dont understand is if its in my enclosure it doesnt happen no matter how long its left and i think its down to the fact theres always at least one or two printers running inside a enclosure (i have a single large enclosure that hold 6 printers 2 enclosures total) so the temp inside is always 30c and above while on the ones in a enclosure by its self or with the filament out side the temps are 21-26c an that is when it happens. i found a roll that has been sitting for over 6months at least an there was quite a bit of the roll that was brittle but as the filament that had been covered come to the top it was fine so its only the filament that is in direct contact with air anything below the outer wrap doesnt seem to be effected. its a pain tho on a couple printers they have pretty long runs for the bowden tubes cause there delta printers so everytime it happens i have to pull a piece thats around a meter to 1.5 at least every time an it happens every single time the printer is left idle for more than an hour or so. so ive found a very small space heater that ive been keeping pointed at the two most problematic printers the past 2 days an so far so good but i have one of them pulled apart right now fixing a clog in the heatbreak was just taking a break an was looking at dehydrators cause i felt like that might helps with this situation.
Yea i have same problem the part exposed before the extruder it snaps over night but doesnt snap while printing
Yep. Weird that it's a mechanical property of the wound filament. Not what I had assumed before figuring it out.
@@PCBurn I don't think its a mechanical issue, I think its something to do with cheap chinese PTFE tubing, I have a cheap delta printer that I recently upgraded to capricorn tubing and used some of the old tubing as a guide on the input side of my extruder.
The PLA only ever cracks when it sits in the PTFE bowden tube that came with my printer, the PLA in the capricorn tube never cracks, its always the filament that sits in the cheap PTFE tube. Makes me think there is some kind of contaminant or plasticizer in the cheap bowden tube that's reacting with the PLA somehow.
Also thanks for making a video on this as its the only thing I've found so far about the issue we've been having with PLA breakage in bowden tubes!
Thanks! The problem I have here is, specifically, "mechanical stress" on the thermally formed rolled filament. For a quick recreation you could hold it straight on it's own with a couple of books or weights for a few days. No PTFE required.
Some of the filament I had an issue with was spooled (where the end was forced straight) with no PTFE in site.
I doubt the PTFE could "leech" into anything, being fairly resistant to moisture or breakdown, but I'd love to see some research on it. I'm only familiar with it's makeup in general.
@@PCBurn I'm gonna try the book thing to verify my theory that its something in the PTFE tube itself at least in my own case, its just wierd that on my delta, the filament that sat in the capricorn tubing after the extruder is 100% fine, but the 3 inch segment before the extruder that sat in the "guide tube" that prevents kinking as it unspools was the only brittle section, especially as the capricorn tubing is held straighter than my input guide tube.
Honestly I don't expect it to be due to the PTFE either since its super stable stuff the way we use it in printers, but as my printer was a $300 kit deal from aliexpress about 5 years ago, I can't really rule out the possibility of some form of contamination or substitution of materials in my case.
@@fragger56 Absolutely! I'll pull the same thing here with three different periods (days/week/month) and we'll see how it goes. I've also got different blends of PLA to test.
I'm definitely not trying to deny you're getting filament breaking or that there could be other factors at play than mechanical stresses on the PLA. Although if it seems being encased in PTFE (or heck, another plastic of any sort) seems to play a factor I'll look into it more thoroughly. I can't think of a mechanism that'd likely happen by offhand. Plastics are pretty stable.
Although re-reading that I'd also expect the points near which the filament is coming off the spool to be under the most stress. If that's where you're seeing it break.
The fan exhaust might be drying the filament out causing the PLA filament to break. I have the same problem with my PLA. I can load and then print a model. As soon as the model is finished printing, the filament snaps at the feeding gears on the back of the printer. I have never had any problems with PLA Tough breaking though.
That'd be the feeding gears I''d assume. Outside of a lab I'm not sure drying filament enough to cause an issue is possible.
i've heard a food dehydrator refurbishes brittle pla, but havent tried.
That's true for thermoplastics in general if they've taken on moisture. It's good advice to keep your printing plastics in a humidity controlled environment.
This problem's unrelated to that. They also become brittle and break if they've been deformed once they've taken a shape (i.e. been spooled up in a roll then left forced straight to go into an extruder).
For me, this is very repeatable with all pla filament. For me, it gets brittle between the spool and the extruder. In my setup, the filament takes a pretty sharp bend just before the extruder, and if I leave it for a couple of days it breaks all on its own. If I pull some slack at the end of a print and relieve the tension between the spool and the extruder, it gets less brittle.
I think it is how you say: the pla is extruded hot onto the reel and completes final cooling on the reel in a coil. Unspooling the filament cold - flexing the cold filament - seems to initiate embrittlement. This same effect is probably acting on printed pla objects that flex. My "ear savers" flex around my head, and they tend to break pretty quickly, too.
That's a good point. It is exactly like the embritlement that happens once the PLA is reformed into a printed object.
I have the same problem and thought it was from over-drying the filament. Any thoughts?
I have to spool up the PLA after use. PETG doesn't exhibit the issue so that stays in the tube.
Modified PLA is sometimes different enough to not have a problem over a few days.
How does this effect respooled filament? Would it become brittle since it's probably stressed differently than it was in the manufacturing process?
@@cqpzg I would assume it wouldn't be good with PLA. I can't recall if I've respooled any fully or not.
I had this happen. I am on about my fourth or fifth roll of filament - now, they keep breaking, and clogging.
It is incredibly frustrating.
Different blends of PLA, or sometimes just changes in the season, will cause it to happen. Spooling it back up when finished should prevent it. If that's not possible I'd go with a modified PLA or PETG whenever feasible; the co-polymers make them less brittle.
Thanks 🙂 Going to pull it out of the bowden tube right now
Just doesn’t make sense. Got a roll of 3D solutech and same thing happens after it sets a couple hours the filament snaps and clogs up the hotend. Never had this issue before. It’s a nightmare having to completely disassemble the hotend to knock clog out.
In general it'll happen with any PLA that's held out of shape long enough. The amount of time depends on what the blend is and possibly some incidental factors with the way it was mechanically spooled when manufactured. Possibly humidity, although I haven't noticed a difference going from bone-dry in winter to comfortable in summer (with a dehumidifier).
PCBurn! I’ve had it happened after setting on the printer for days. But not after a couple hours and completely brittle all the to the hot end and hard as a rock inside the hotend to where I can’t even clean the nozzle out
Crazy... Wondering if our PLA is just TOO dry... Snapped right outta the box.
Usually, if that's not just a small end section held out of shape, something was horribly wrong during production. New PLA shouldn't do that if it was handled correctly.
EXACTLY what happened to me!!!! I have an AMS lite unit, and the filament in the end of the spool is very "spring-shaped" . So leaving the filament overnight straight inside the ptfe tube made it very brittle!
@@soniccinosI've had better luck with the modified PLA when leaving it in a multi-spool roller. Or PETG of course.
You can get some bags from ikea 4.5L or 6L they are good to keep the filament spool inside
no make sense
@@rama3njoy is working like this for me,and if I really wanna dry it I have sunlu filament dryer box 😉
I have a complete roll breaking like that. What's the possible solution?
Return it to the seller. It's defective.
It is 100% not moisture. I made the mistake of re-spooling a couple of my PLA spools and EVERY re-spool started to randomly snap and break. All stacked in sealed bags with desicant. I have this problem with both PLA+ and cheap PLA
Ah, that sucks. I never actually thought about re-spooling being a potential issue; that's a good reminder
My print never finished because the pla keep broken in the middle of the print
Yep, that's defective filament.
Good video... I experienced this as well. Learned something. Thnx
Thank you for the kind words. It's always nice to know someone's out there!
is there any other solution?
The two solutions are to use a plastic that's more resilient against mechanical stress (modified PLA can be or PETG) or to relieve the mechanical stress by re-winding it when finished. There isn't a way to cheat physics :).
Is it because inside bowden tube some sort of chemical reaction between the ptfe and the plastic making it brittle
No, covered that in an experiment with a follow up video and explained a bit more about what's happening: th-cam.com/video/FDijOpKtXQs/w-d-xo.html
my new problem, brand new pla, straighten overnight then snap. my on direct drive extruder.
my solution is pull out the filament from extruder when not used, leave recoil back to spool.
That's the way to do it with PLA.
I both a matte pla filament and it started breaking right when I wanted to insert it the printer
If the filament isn't poorly manufactured you should be able to cut it back to the spooled portion before inserting it into the printer.
All my printers are direct drive. My humidity lvl is controlled at exactly 50%. I don't bother to store my PLA properly and I have some really old spools, 5 years or even more. Never had a filament break while printing, but it is true the if I leave the filament in the extruder for a couple of weeks I sometimes find it broken. It only happens with the cheap ones, never with hatchbox or similar. And it is just the few inches closest to the extruder, the rest of the spool is just fine. I have no idea why this happens. My only explanation is that the light (UV) affects the PLA. It is always the part that is exposed to the light. The shelves where my spools are resting are far from the windows, but the printers are in a large table next to the windows, although the blinds are usually closed, anyway... the spool is just fine, it is just the exposed filament left in the printer that snaps.
That is my experience.
Yea, the companion video linked in the description demonstrates the effect as described. Mechanical stresses on raw PLA. If the PLA's blended with other polymers or is chemically different it'll behave differently.
@@PCBurn I just read the article.
The theory of the shape makes a lot of sense. The filament that is closed to the extruder can't coil back again to the curvy form of the spool.
I never thought about that.
So... I guess the effect is more pronounced in the small spools, or the almost finished spools, where the filament is coiled in a tighter radius than in the big or newer ones?
@@MrPeloseco Usually in PLA without a co-polymer it's just a feature of the plastic. Its radius on formation would matter too, as you're implying.
If the manufacturing is bad I've seen them completely shatter as well; that's probably an issue with the cooling when it's initially formed.
My pla filegment was breaking how can i reuse please reply my question
For something else.
I have been struggling for more than a year , and i think this might be my problem. I never had any problems with the printer until i changed filament . The nozzle seems fine, but the pla is super brittle. i am in a wheelchair , only use printer infrequently and when I need to re load the filament ...it can take weeks before I can get someone to help me. Does anyone know of a pla that doesn't have this problem ? I really want to be able to use my printer again but i can't be unloading and reloading filament everytime.
That's problematic with PLA. Some of the modified filaments (PLA+, rapid pla) might not be as brittle on average. I haven't found any to be consistent.
Also, PETG doesn't normally have the same issue. If it'll work you may want to default to it.
what about putting it in when it new and put it in but it snaps and fails a print ? i just tryed to do a model tank but it was 5 hours and it only done the flat bit so did not print anything at all
i think may been it snaped as saw it trying to feed but it could not ?
also what should the room temperature be where the printer is ?
If the whole roll is snapping it was likely poorly formed or cooled when wound and is defective. Got a roll like that with a cheap printer once.
@@PCBurn ok maybe the role then as its the trial one i got with printer i do have anycubic pla grey to try so maybe that be better what is the strongest can put in petg or is there better ? as i am looking to make holding brackets to strength stuff and also clips for cables
PETG is a bit more flexible and higher temp. PLA is stiffer.
@@PCBurn what about asa plastic ?
@@swiftdetecting Withstands higher temperature and trickier to work with. If the heatbed on your printer is sufficient and the hot-end does not use PTFE, sure.
PETG probably has better properties if you don't need to resist higher temperatures.
You mentioned clips. If they're going to flex and aren't exposed to strong UV I would try PETG first.
My prints keep breaking if there long prints any advice
Yes, look in to layer adhesion.
The problem is it can break while its printing . The Quesion is can it be softened .
Not that I'm aware of. Humidity would exacerbate the problem... you'd have to melt and re-extrude it.
@@PCBurn I believe in the oven @ 70C for 1hr fixes the issue . I'll have to give it a try .
@@das250250 certainly won't make it worse!
pla breaks from getting old and the humidity of certain areas ..i live in sw florida and i have only a few days until my pla becomes brittle as hell in summer and snaps like that and worse... yes its the cheap basic pla...but moisture causes it... dozens of pla rolls have done this... lucky i only have a few feet left on a roll... i am trying to prevent and also dry ...so far no luck..
If you're keeping them in a sealed dry box it's not humidity. Good luck!
yes a good unit would fix issue...
This was happening to me on almost every cold start after a few weeks. I put on a capricorn bowden tube and it stopped completely. My guess is it has something to do with the teeth on the coupler cutting into the tube too much over time and scoring the tube, causing it to bend or letting air into that spot.
I'm having this issue too. It's breaking at the extruder teeth. I'm confident it's not moisture.
@@autorepairbymike1356 same on my Ender 3. After 24 hours extruder grips so hard it bites through filament. Ideally a way to remove pressure when printer not in use would be good.
I have a small zip tie loop to pull on lever to take pressure off when printer not in use
Same thing happened to me and i found this video. Completely agree with you. Thanks.
Hey, today i was printing an iron man helmet piece that took over 14 hours, when i came home though it seemed to be that the filament snapped, but I literally just opened the filament. Do you know why it did that?
btw i was printing on an ender 3
Could be the end of the spool was suffering from the same issue. It's always a good idea to check the end of the spool and cut it back a bit if necessary before printing.
If it's different parts of the roll that are brittle it was probably mis-spooled at the factory.
@@PCBurn Alright, thank you!
My filament that's in the bin with the baggies and silica crystal snaps but the spool on the printer has been out for 2 months 😅 and perfectly fine 🤣
@@Shay56787 yep, sometimes I've gotten a poorly manufactured roll that's done that. Or one that was re-spooled to a smaller "starter" spool for a pack-in.
for me the filament keeps breaking at the extruder 2h 43 minutes into the print, every. single. time. without failure, i don't get why it does that.
With multiple different filaments? If the filament is known to be good it'd be something about the way the print is sliced or the way the printer handles it.
If that's with a single filament roll try a different brand or blend of it.
@@PCBurn the filament is good, well known affordable local stuff. i've tried 2 colors and 4 rolls but they all give the same issue. i haven't heard about the way it's sliced being an issue yet...
@ Yea, if it's not the filament it'd have to be something with the printer or way the printer is handling the code.
Although personally I'd try a completely different brand of filament. You're right in thinking it's the most likely culprit. And a bad "weak spot" from the manufacturing process would be possible.
This problem becomes worse the near the end of the spool it gets because the natural curvature of the filament increases!
@@soniccinos yea, I've noticed that. It's prone to unspooling if it's not bound and shatters when it isn't tightly wrapped. Or worse, snaps in your guide tube.
Funny that every resource I have looked at states cheap quality. Yet, the cheap chinese filament I normally buy is flawless and the only named brand I bought is having this issue. I have had filament sitting for 2 years in my print enclosure, and the named brand is constantly snapping, yet the cheap chinese filament I load up is flawlessly working and no snapping.
Yea, could be down to copolymers used in that case. Or just a different spooling process.
As you say, price doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.
i have two filaments from the same company, tecbears, the black will print PERFECTLY. I tried printing with the red and was chasing all kinds of problems. it wasn't until i said F it and put the black spool back on to test and it came out perfect. lol there goes 2 days troubleshooting a non-issue
Sure, could be a problem with that spool or drastically different properties due to.the plastic blend.
I've certainly run into issues with different spools from the same manufacturer behaving differently. Moreso with PETG but sometimes with PLA.
@@PCBurn Weird, didn't get a notification until Schlomo replied yesterday. But yeah, I have stuck to an eBay brand called Lioness. Have had no issues with either. I think I just got a bad spool but I had read other comments about that brand having similar issues so I've stayed away. I think to an extent price doesn't always mean quality. The Lioness filament I am paying $24AUD/1KG and it's better than the $35/1KG named brand I spoke about.
The named filament I would leave in the printer overnight and would be cracked at the extruder. NEVER experienced that before. Oh well, got through the spool to get it out of my sight, lol.
Yea, that's probably down to one of the plastics having different additives. Unmodified, uncolored PLA usually snaps under stress after a while. Although that might also have to do with how it's handled during spooling (when manufactured)..
It's moisture 100%. Put it in a dehydrator overnight and the problem will be solved
You could cause a similar issue with moisture if you abuse the filament enough. But my workshop's humidity controlled and the PLA's (in most cases) additionally stored in a drybox. This is a mechanical property of thermally formed PLA plastic.
No, I have this problem and I live in a desert environment.
What is the solution😢
Take the PLA out of the printer when finished and buy properly formed spools made of decent quality material. If it's an issue use a PLA with a co-polymer.
I actually will try this method. Thank you.
Your welcome! Mechanical stress is such voodoo that I find it easier to work around it than try to anticipate what'll do for every different case.
Bro rly rabbles for 5mins then just said take it out if the Bowden tube
Bruh it snaps every 20 mins help
And i don't use a bowden tube
Useless.
It certainly is when it's broken.