I am ALWAYS enlightened every time I watch Fr Seraphim. My eyes and heart are always opened and the conviction sets in deep. I have repented over and over for the sloppy worship I have given to the Lord. I am currently a catechumen for the Orthodox Church.
I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but in my search for truth, left the Catholic Church for many years, trying one denomination after another in my pursuit of holiness, but eventually returning to my Catholic roots. However, I've noticed a palpable difference in the sense of worship since the priests started facing the congregation instead of the alter. There seemed to be more reverence (which is what drew me back to the Catholic Church) when the priests faced the alter. I'm delighted to hear about this Orthodox Church that carries on the traditions of the early church.
+A Davis The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Church of God. i am sorry that you had to return back to your herecy. Obviously you havent known the Eastern Orthodox Church so i suggest you do . and if you love God and you are humble you will know that this is the One True Church of Christ. and then you will be baptised and become Christian Orthodox like so many people from heretic coutnries have done nowdays. Jonathan Jackson is one of them.Times change. Soon Latins will yield to Orthodoxy and Orthodoxy will spread from east to west as the new Saints have said in their prophecies.
A Davis. I was raised Roman Catholic. although some in my family doesn't understand, I am converting to Greek Orthodox. nothing I ever did felt so right.
Please see my comments above, I provide actual debate with scriptures, not man made books or traditions, on why the RCC and OC churches are not practicing truth in religion. I know your post as 2 years old by the time of this writing though. I have provided links to Cath sites that even show the hypocrisy of their teachings. If it's too long of a post, above, start with Acts 10:22-26. Peter told Cornelius to get up, to now worship him, because he was a man (even though he had been performing miracles and such). Now, ask yourself if any of the churches follow his lead, seeing how they "claim" to be direct in line with Peter's teachings. Ever see the TH-cam videos of the Pope ceremonies where clergy are prostrating themselves and vowing allegiance to him, and his successors, but NOT to Jesus or YHWH? Odd, don you think?
B If YOU had actually read at least one English translation of the Holy Bible, then YOU would know that Lord Jesus the Christ stated that He will give His Church the Holy Spirit FOREVER (male prophets and female prophets), that is Holy ORAL tradition (John 14:16-17). Also, that Apostle Paul stated that Christians are to pass on WRITTEN teachings and his ORAL teachings (male teachers and female teachers), that is Holy ORAL tradition (2 Thessalonian 2:15). God's tradition is Holy Scripture, that is WRITTEN tradition and ORAL tradition, that is Holy Spirit FOREVER (male prophets and female prophets) and ORAL teachings (male teachers and female teachers). Dorcas aka Tabitha was a FEMALE DISCIPLE. Junia was a FEMALE APOSTLE. Anna was a FEMALE PROPHET. The 4 virgin daughters of Apostle Philip were FEMALE PROPHETS. Mary Magdalene was a FEMALE APOSTLE to the MALE Apostles. Apostle stated that FEMALES are the were the head covering for praying AND PROPHESYING *because of the angels* . What angels?? The ones that appeared to Mary Magdalene and gave her authority to teach MALE Apostles! Apostle Paul stated that human tradition is PERSONAL interpretations, opinions, and teachings, that is originating from the human and *not* from God and Apostles (which are originally from Lord Jesus the Christ). Apostle James stated that a person is justified by works and *not* by faith alone (James 2:24). Lord Jesus the Christ ordained Apostle Paul as Priest (Romans 15:16).Quit protesting against Christ's Church and submit to the will of God the Father! Furthermore, prostration does *not* mean worship but bowing and a human can bow in worship to God the Father and bow in respect to King David. {{{1 Chronicles 29:20 Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king.}}}
The eastern “orthodox” are soviet-founded oriental schismatic polytheists who are enemies of God and his Holy Roman Church. There cannot possibly be any salvation outside of the one true church.
I am reading a History of Christianity by Paul Johnson. He does a good job of showing the development or evolution of the church, starting from John the Baptist and his introduction of Christ, on to the Apostles and the congregations / churches established by them. Great read, highly recommend it.
Wow, this man was filled such sincerity and humility like I've never seen except through Jesus Christ and the Apostles in the scriptures. It was shocking to see it in a real living person today by God's Grace!
In Lutheran tradition, the pastor looks towards the altar when he is saying something to GOD (According to the liturgy, e.g., during the hymnos eothinos, usually called gloria) and he turns towards the people when he is saying something directed to the people (e.g., when he is announcing them GOD's forgiveness). I love listening to Fr Seraphim Cardoza. Nice interviews!
Just a thought for some saying that the altar is old testament and now jesus is our alter. Look at the book of Revelation, consider how worship is being done in heaven, and ought we to do like wise? Now ask yourself, does your church look anything like that on a Sunday morning?
@Brian Juntunen // "Did the first Christians who met in homes use altars and priests? I don't see that." // Yes, they sure did use alters! There's no doubt about this. The evidence for this is in every single archaeological dig - without exception - of the most ancient churches. You will notice from photographs that the table/alter was always the focal point in the church building's architecture. Check out Dura-Europos church in Syria and Meggido church in Palestine. No church prior to the Protestant Reformation had pulpits as the focal point (as is usually the case in Protestantism/Evangelicism). As to priests, yes they did as well. Priest is phonetically English (from the French "prêtre", which is from the Latin "Presbyter" - and that from the Greek "presbyteros"). Very briefly, Priest and Bishop (Episcopos) were the same office - yet within the New Testament itself and during the lives of the Apostles (as the Church expanded) - these two terms bifurcated into distinct offices for all Christians. This is totally legitimate and is reflected in the later New Testament Epistles.
Tuğba Erdal You must understand that the rejection of the holy icons and holy remains of the saints means rejection of all the miracles that they are related to. That is dangerously close the situation where the Pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost when they thought that the miracles of Jesus were performed by unclean spirits. That is a blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. The Seventh Ecumenical Council was invoked due the iconoclastic heresy. It was determined that they should be venerated. We believe that the Holy Ghost has spoken at the Ecumenical Councils just like He did at the council in Jerusalem around 51 AD. So their veneration is a commandment of God.
Tuğba Erdal Seventh Ecumenical Council, Canon IX. All the childish devices and mad ravings which have been falsely written against the venerable images, must be delivered up to the Episcopium of Constantinople, that they may be locked away with the other heretical books. And if anyone is found hiding such books, if he be a bishop or presbyter or deacon, let him be deposed; but if he be a monk or layman, let him be anathema.
Tuğba Erdal You don't understand that the rules, canons and decisions of the Ecumenical Councils are from the Holy Ghost, therefore they are also the word of God. The Church Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils were driven by the Holy Ghost. Acts 20:28:''Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.'' Also the Ecumenical Councils fight with the heresies. They were convened when there was a serious heresy threatening the Church. They have not perverted the Christian teaching, but affirmed it. You have a wrong perception of ecclesiology. The Church is the Body of Christ and the Holy Ghost dwells within it. It is a divine-human organism that is led by the Holy Spirit. And the gates of hell shall not prevail over against it. (Matthew 16:18).
Tuğba Erdal If any ancient church did not have icons, it was certainly the exception rather than the rule. Eastern Orthodox Churches _always_ had iconography. Occasionally, stirred by the demonic hatred of the incarnation, various heretical iconoclasts would rise up and try to persecute the church through 'zeal not according to knowledge'. These iconoclasts were always destroyed by the power of Truth and the Holy Spirit. You are probably familiar with the Old Testament prohibition against making graven images (Ex 20_4), but did you know that the original word in Hebrew 'pe-sel' biblehub.com/hebrew/fesel_6459.htm means neither 'graven' nor 'image' but specifically an idol i.e. something which is worshiped as a god. It is not broadly prohibiting all images as such. You speak of Hellenism as if it was an evil influence contrary to God's will. Does He Who set forth the paths of the celestial bodies and Who determined the signs and seasons and Who ordains the times and ages and Who gives authority to earthly rulers and kings not have control over the course of human history and cultures? Do you think it's an accident that the New Testament Scriptures were written in the Greek language? Or that before the birth of the Lord the Old Testament was translated into the Greek Language (*the Septuagint*) which is the translation that the New Testament quotes most extensively from; the translation that the Eastern Orthodox Church uses for the Old Testament Scriptures. Both the Judaism of the time of the incarnation as well as the Early Christian Church were thoroughly Hellenized. Where do you think New Testament names such as Nicodemus and Theophilus comes from -- do they sound Semitic to you? Did not the Lord Himself prophesy the role of the Greeks in carrying forth the message of the Gospels: _'And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.'_ John 12_20 You mentioned in another post about the early Christians simply worshipping in the houses of believers. You said: *QUOTE* _'That's why we read in the book of acts that believers used to get together in THEIR HOMES!'_ Do you know what ancient house churches were actually like? Are you aware of Duro-Europos (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_church) in present day Syria, the *oldest discovered house church* circa 233 - 256 -- and that it had iconography? This is pre-Saint Constantine by the way. Are you aware that in the Old Testament Temple (the place the Lord referred to as His Father's House) we find images: on the Ark (Ex. 25_18) on the Curtains of the Tabernacle (Ex. 26_1) on the Veil of the Holy of Holies Ex (26_31) Two huge Cherubim in the Sanctuary - (1st Kings 6_23) on the Walls - (1st Kings 6_29) on the Doors - (1st Kings 6_32) and on the furnishings (1st Kings 7_29,36) in other words almost everywhere you turned -- the same experience you would have if you were to walk into a properly built Orthodox Christian Temple today [source: orthodoxinfo.com/general/icon_faq.aspx] with the two exceptions: 1. that we have iconography on the ceilings as well-- since the heavens also now have been opened for us in the New Testament 2. we have icons not only of the seraphim and cherubim but of the Saints as well because they are now in Heaven. By the way, everything sola-scriptura folks find so objectionable about Orthodox Worship: *incense, the cross (the sign of the Lord), priestly vestments, the golden lamps, the altar, the Mother of the Lord, the Saints and Martyrs, intercessory prayer, liturgical worship, monasticism / asceticism,* etc, is actually right there in the Holy Scriptures, especially *in the Book of Revelation* if you know where to look.
Godly Matthew, You have ONLY one home church example that is Dura-Europos. In fact it was a synagogue and christians made those images on it. It is not Jewish. When I mention hellenistic influence, I do not mean language, etc, but religious which was a pagan religion's influence to Judaism and Christianity. It is all happened at same time, by Rome. There are also synagogues in Judea that have Roman Sun God worshiping icons there with zodiac. But the question is this, are there any similar Jewish synagogues from pre-Roman era, let say 600-700 BC that has such icons, images in it? The answer is NO! God always hated those cultures and their influence. It was not only Romans and Greeks who were worshiping to sun god, it was the people of Canaanites too. The depiction of Sun God figure in those hellenistic synagogues are the same with Roman sun god depiction. Is it a coincidence? And Jews must have known that God before hated those things, 2.Kings:5-11. As you know God never allowed making images of any person, if it would be like your saying we should have seen all over Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, etc, all those people's depiction in Israel, but where are they? God meant exactly what he meant and Jews understand it very well. And all those images that were in the Temple were pointing done by God's specific order for just that place. Not for synagogues. And those items in Temple were never worshiped as God or HOLY! But Roman Christianity allow and declare those items in church as if they have holiness and holy and must be respected as if they are HOLY GOD! Sorry, but no matter how much you want to twist the scripture and history, you can not get any thing. İconoclast is from God, because He knew these would happen, He knew. It always ended with worshiping. İcons in churches appear hundreds of later. Even in the first churches for example in Turkey Durmus Kadir Church in Capadoccia is the earliest church in there and it has not any icons or images or alter. They say it is from 6th century, if it is so, it was in Roman Empire that adopted christianity lately. Anyway, today those images in churches are not viewed as pictures that remind people the things from New testament, but they are rather objects of worshiping, directly and by addressing to those objects and images, which is strictly forbidden. Forget kneeling and giving respect to an image, they do worse thing, they talk to other spirits in spirit, it is spiritual adultary, fornication and it is done against to Holy Spirit.
For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its PREEMINENT AUTHORITY -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere.
Ever heard of the 28th Canon? Rome was Central due to being the administrative center of the Empire, not because Jesus founded His Church upon a single city or Apostle. Rome moved its Capital to Constantinople, and Canon 28 recognizes and codifies that move. The very fact that there were Great Ecumenical Councils (precisely Zero of which took place in Old Rome or any Latin or Germanic province or City, all being held in the East) rather than Magisterium-directed "Ex Cathedras" demonstrates that the Church's governance was/is Conciliar, properly. This is also seen in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. St. Peter was Bishop in Antioch before ever traveling to Rome (which he evangelized with St. Paul, BTW, and not on his own). Going further, he was an evangelist in Old Rome, he's not even listed as a Bishop in the oldest lists, the first Roman Bishop was St. Linus, by nearly all ancient accounts.
I forget the verse but it openly states that translation and church practice will and is expected to change ti the times and technology ,language changes etc .this was expected and the first 7 churches faced this problem .all the answer for the church structure is there in the gospels . The first 7 churches had the same problems we face in our churches today .
2. Irenaeus states "We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith." Also, early Christian worship consisted of the word (OT & NT), the lord's supper, spiritual gifts, prayer and possibly included some singing, distribution of money and oaths.
Im sorry to seem like I am trolling your comments hahaha but if i might add one more thing. The progression of the church in the west is that it is becoming more and more about what G-d can do for is congregation. The emphasis on liturgy is paying homage respect and unity in christ. The Sermon is about giving something to the people which they can attach to there daily lives, taking away the liturgy makes it that service becomes more people based and only about the people.
Kierkegaard wrote about the fact that it is impossible to be a Christian today in the sense of first century Christians. I agree. There is no formality that actually survives, even the Orthodox is corrupted by the Jews, but God is good and he is gracious unto all who call upon him, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
as well as giving the speaker more attention and respect and power than he/she should have. As far as Kierkegaard goes would you be willing to expand more on what he said exactly and where I may read? I actually like Kierkegaard, thank you
[we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the Apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Aapostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. (cont.)
My dear Brother in Christ, You'll find that many, if not most of the earliest Christians, (that were Jewish coverts) would actually go to Jewish service on Saturday (for Shabbath) and Sunday (for Resurrection of Our Savior) and more and more historical evidence goes to show that the early Christianity was a sect of Judaism, though revolutionary in theology similar in practice. Our Lord and Savior did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. So we can not ignore the old.
In the Western churches we don't worship the people either. Did the first Christians who met in homes use altars and priests? I don't see that. These were later developments and were the very things that Paul was warning the Gentile converts to watch out for, the Judaising that was so pervasive. I mean, I like a lot about the Orthodox church, but copying the temple was not prescribed, neither facing certain directions, we worship in Spirit and in truth.
Well inAntioch the Head was ashamed to be seen with gentile christians and was rebuked by Paul. In Acts 15, The only instance in in which doctrine was discussed the decision is taken by the council of Apostles and the one guiding the debate and summarizing the decision is James, not Peter, who should have if what you said was true. The council of Bishops is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and is therefore the mouth of God, not one person, even if it is the Bishop of Rome.
The first named Pope was in Alexandria Egypt and in corinth or ephesus was named bishop .the evangelical was sent to Alexandria . Tbh cercusism was really a issue for one generation of adults. In USA most are circumisized at birth and in modern times it's a health benefit to have it done.
Health benefits to be circumcised? American men have the highest rates of STDs in first world countries; between 14-30 years old. That may have changed, given that data came to light when I was doing research a few years ago.
I'm aware but what's the point of being first among equals when Saint Peter was clearly not equal to the others. Its quite obvious that He had a higher calling. If The Patriarch of Rome in the line of Peter represents Him. Then He has the power to assemble them and also to bind and loose descisions as chief Bishop. This is not to knock the holy orthodox people it is to unite rightfully under one banner a seperated church body. The Head is Peter and The head carries with it The Mouth of God.
I like how at the end the host sends, "according to scripture Jesus is the only way to heaven and that offends a lot of people" ha! No saints, virgins, images, just Jesus.
The main issue I see with Christianity today is a lack of spiritual leadership. Jesus was able to inspire many billions of people to follow him over the years. Unfortunately that number is declining because today there aren't many good examples of Jesus' teachings being demonstrated by the Christians themselves. Lead by example and people will follow!
I am researching the Orthodox Christian beliefs. I came across something that states the OC believes that Mary was and continued to stay a virgin after Christ's birth. If that is the case, then can someone who is in the OC explain to me how Christ had brother's and sisters, mentioned quite often in the bible? Also, when it comes to saints, how can Adam and Eve be considered saints when they committed the original sins, were banished from Eden, and bore us all into a life of sin. I also read that CO believes that Angels are considered saints? Granted, I am fairly new to the CO faith, so I am hopeful someone can lead me to a good source of their beliefs.
The so-called "brothers and sisters" of Christ were Joseph's children from a previous marriage. You may refer for more on this issue here: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/praktikes/panagia2.htm Note also that before Jesus Christ die on the cross said to His mother "Woman, behold thy son" [John 19:26] indicating John. If Mary had other children too, what would be the purpose for all this? Adam and Eve sinned but also repented and when Jesus Christ descended to Hades after His death, they accepted Him as their Savior and were saved: i.ytimg.com/vi/RcpMBAjIe54/maxresdefault.jpg Yes, Angels are Saints and members of the Heavenly Church. Note that on the original Greek text of [Mark 8:38] the phrase "holy angels" is written as "ΤΩΝ ΑΓΓΕΛΩΝ ΤΩΝ ΑΓΙΩΝ", where ΑΓΙΩΝ=Saints.
A topic that has been contested over the years, lol: In those days, it was an honor to be blessed with children, you can see that by many biblical accounts of women pleading to God because they were barren. There is NO evidence that Joseph was married before Mary, only that he was older than her. If you have actual scripture, then please show me. Mat 1:25 clearly states Joseph did not consummate the marriage until after Jesus was born. That is scripture, not a "what if" scenario. That scripture alone shows she did NOT stay a virgin, something the RCC and OC seem to push. Mat 12:46,47 states his mother and brothers were waiting to talk to Jesus. Mat 13:54-56 and Mark 6:3 clearly shows that people knew of Joseph, Mary, and all of his siblings; they didn't say cousins or "spiritual" brothers and sisters, which he didn't have at that time since his ministry hadn't started. Luke 2:43 - We do know Joseph was alive at the time Jesus was a boy in the temple, the scripture says his parents were looking for him. So in 12 years of marriage, they didn't have any kids? Scripture says otherwise. John 7:5 shows that Jesus told Mary and John that they were son and mother, the same way you would tell your mom to be entrusted to a close friend, whom was like family, if your siblings were not of faith. If his siblings were non believers, he knew her spiritual well being was left in John's hands. Jeremiah 7:18 - The RCC and OC seems to trying to make Mary into something she was not, by keeping the "mother of God" and "queen of Heaven" pagan traditions. Having month long holidays dedicated to her isn't biblical, or even the "saints" , it's pagan and no one has been able to show me where God or Jesus said she was to be elevated in such a manner. It takes away the undeserving gift that Christ gave us, via God, of his death. Jesus is THE only mediator between us and God, YHWH. Acts 2:4 - Mary then disappears from the text after his ascension, she is last mentioned during the time all his disciples were gathered and the Holy Spirit was placed upon them. I am not trying to take away from Mary's gift of being the mother or Jesus, but Jesus din't say to elevate her. She was filled with the Holy Spirit, the same as other's and we can be filled also. Does that make us saint's also? No.
Also, when the angel appeared to Joseph and told them to leave, due to Herod, the angel only mentioned Mary and Jesus, not any other imaginary children to take with them. Idols - Micah 5:13 - Yet, in just one example, Nikolai Chudotvorets, shows prayer in front of his statue. How can anyone say that isn't worshiping an idol, similar to so many biblical accounts of false worship? The carrying his bones in the streets? There are statues of Seraphim of Sarov, a temple for him, he was considered a mystic among other things. How can anyone think that these, and more examples, of traditions, festivals, or rituals are clean and inspired by God? YHWH forbids it and yet, people want to be blind and believe the lies instead of what he commands of us. Deuteronomy 14:1 & Leviticus 19:28 - How many traditions of people cutting, beating, and torturing themselves are done openly in the streets during festivals, yet claim it holy in front GOd to see, it's a forbidden practice! Jeshua gave his life for us, tortured, so those things are detestable and goes against his sacrifice.
*- “There is NO evidence that Joseph was married before Mary, only that he was older than her. If you have actual scripture, then please show me.”* This is exactly the trap of “Sola Scriptura”... Protestants who have excluded themselves from the 2000 year Holy Tradition of the Church find it difficult accept anything that it is not written in the Bible. However Bible itself stresses the fact that it is only the written part of the Tradition that Christians have to keep: “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle” [2 Thessalonians 2:15]. Joseph’s marriage and his children he had before his engagement with Mary and also Mary’s virginity before-during-after the Birth of Jesus Christ, are common knowledge for any Orthodox 2000 years now, but unfortunately are still a question for Protestants. *- Mat **1:25** clearly states Joseph did not consummate the marriage until after Jesus was born. That is scripture, not a "what if" scenario. That scripture alone shows she did NOT stay a virgin, something the RCC and OC seem to push.* [Matthew 1:25] says what happened BEFORE Jesus’ Birth, so you can’t judge from that verse what happened AFTER Jesus’ Birth. And something more here: The word ‘until’ on [Matthew 1:25] and in Scripture in general doesn’t imply that what happened BEFORE the ‘until’ will not continue to happen AFTER that. For example on [Matthew 28:20] Jesus Christ says “... and behold, I am with you every day, until the end of time”. So, because Jesus said “until”, are we to understand that the Lord will not be with us, AFTER the end of time? *- Mat **12:46**,47 states his mother and brothers were waiting to talk to Jesus. Mat **13:54**-56 and Mark 6:3 clearly shows that people knew of Joseph, Mary, and all of his siblings; they didn't say cousins or "spiritual" brothers and sisters, which he didn't have at that time since his ministry hadn't started.* In Judaea of that time the engagement in between Joseph and Mary, although was not the same as marriage, did have legal status. So Jesus Christ was considered, legally speaking, as “carpenter's son” and brother of James, Joses, Simon, Judas and their sisters. That’s why during the decree Caesar Augustus so as everyone should be taxed, Mary traveled to Joseph’s homeland (Bethlehem) as she was legally considered (and of course the new-born Jesus) as member of Joseph’s family. *- Luke **2:43** - We do know Joseph was alive at the time Jesus was a boy in the temple, the scripture says his parents were looking for him. So in 12 years of marriage, they didn't have any kids? Scripture says otherwise.* Scripture doesn’t say otherwise; you are just guessing. *- John 7:5 shows that Jesus told Mary and John that they were son and mother, the same way you would tell your mom to be entrusted to a close friend, whom was like family, if your siblings were not of faith. If his siblings were non believers, he knew her spiritual well being was left in John's hands.* Jesus Christ being God also knew that after His Resurrection his brothers would believe in Him. James became the first Bishop of Jerusalem and wrote one of the Epistles of New Testament, while Judas wrote another one. So Jesus didn’t trust His mother to John because he was afraid of His brothers. It was His will that His Virgin mother to be entrusted to His virgin disciple. *- Jeremiah **7:18** - The RCC and OC seems to trying to make Mary into something she was not, by keeping the "mother of God" and "queen of Heaven" pagan traditions. Having month long holidays dedicated to her isn't biblical, or even the "saints" , it's pagan and no one has been able to show me where God or Jesus said she was to be elevated in such a manner. It takes away the undeserving gift that Christ gave us, via God, of his death. Jesus is THE only mediator between us and God, YHWH.* I agree that Jesus Christ is the only meditator between us and God, but talking about the honor of saints and their invocation is something completely different. I would propose you to read this: www.oodegr.com/english/protestantism/invocation_saints.htm *- Acts 2:4 - Mary then disappears from the text after his ascension, she is last mentioned during the time all his disciples were gathered and the Holy Spirit was placed upon them. I am not trying to take away from Mary's gift of being the mother or Jesus, but Jesus din't say to elevate her. She was filled with the Holy Spirit, the same as other's and we can be filled also. Does that make us saint's also? No.* Jesus Christ has elevated His mother more than me and you can imagine... “for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.” [Luke 1:48-49] *- Also, when the angel appeared to Joseph and told them to leave, due to Herod, the angel only mentioned Mary and Jesus, not any other imaginary children to take with them.* The rest of Joseph’s children wasn’t in danger. Only Jesus was in danger and should escape Herod, so why should all Joseph’s family leave to Egypt? *- Idols - Micah **5:13** - Yet, in just one example, Nikolai Chudotvorets, shows prayer in front of his statue. How can anyone say that isn't worshiping an idol, similar to so many biblical accounts of false worship? The carrying his bones in the streets? There are statues of Seraphim of Sarov, a temple for him, he was considered a mystic among other things. How can anyone think that these, and more examples, of traditions, festivals, or rituals are clean and inspired by God? YHWH forbids it and yet, people want to be blind and believe the lies instead of what he commands of us.* Idol is something that draws our attention from the One True God and replaces Him as an object which is worshiped. On the contrary holy icons, holy relics, etc are directing us straight to God as for our worship. Why do you find it difficult to accept that God Who transmitted His Grace through His clothes [Matthew 14:36], St. Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons [Acts 16:12] and even St. Peter’s shadow [Acts 5:15-16] is “not allowed” to do the same through an icon or a relic of a saint? As for relics see also [2 Kings, 13:21].
SMW - LOL, well, I trust the Bible more than a man's opinion. When I debate, I use actual scripture and typically multiple verses to back up my stance. So I will ask you, show me the verses that states in the bible that Joseph was married before. Your butt hurt speculation, opinion, or wanting something to be true in invalid in this case since you can't. If you can, please show me that. There are many speculations on how old he was at the time of death though, typically 80 - 95 depending on where you get your info from. You and I were NOT there, so we have scripture to guide us on what we need to know, not guess or speculate. WE know for a FACT, not opinion or speculation, what scripture says to be the case on Jesus's brother's and sister's though. Since speculation is the topic, how do you not know that Joseph was being guided to not have married, until Mary, even if he wasn't aware. If he was previously married, what if his wife was still alive at the time he met Mary, he wouldn't have been able to marry her. See how that works?!
On the contrary, you are prideful, ignorant and doing a good job of serving evil. You seem to have the need to burn other people's belief and claim you are the only one who is practicing the correct form of Christianity. You have chosen the religion of the Pharisee and not Christ's teachings. Go find someone else to play your little mind game and give my regards to Jack Chick.
well Peter first founded Antioch then went oun to found Rome among other churches, and in the early church the Pope of Rome was respecteded as first among equals having no authority over the other Patriarchs, and all were resopnicable to the synod of bishops in the area. all the Patriarchies have had heretics in them including as the Patriach, that includes Rome, but the faith has maintained true despite the failings of the indervidual people.
one honest question coming from a protestant interested in this very much. when jesus says call no man father. why do u take the title father. I'm very opened to an explaination
What is generally accepted is that Jesus was saying do not put any man in the place of Father God. People don't think that Jesus was forbidding children from calling their fathers father, or dad, but rather that he was saying don't put anything in the place of Father God. The title of Father for priests comes from 'the Early Church Fathers' and is used to denote an elder of the church. Priest is another term for elder in the orthodox church. Naturally there is the priesthood of all believers, but we don't believe in the elderhood of all believers (as there is a distinction in the Bible). So priest= elder. Father= title denoting elderhood.
Read the verse before and after of that verse that you are quoting....you can read there "call no man your teacher"....for sure we call our teachers, teacher. My point here is, that verse is not literal. It means that do not put any man in the pace of God.
Gonna try to give you some food, brother, with my poor english... Jesus calls Abraham, "Our Father Abraham"... and Paul, speaking to the young Church of his time, said "I became your father through our Lord Jesus"... In fact it's a honorific title... and nothing else. God Bless you...
father is not a title for an orthodox priest. You obviously will never refer to him with ONLY his given name, so you call him father in acknowledgment of Christ as the one true father. Sorry my English may not be clear enough.
Interesting that they said that the early church of Christ had altars. The only mention of an altar in the New Testament, that was not Jewish, is in the book of Hebrews and it states that OUR (Christian) altar is in heaven. There were and still are not any altars on the earth in TRUE Christianity. Sorry folks.
If you have STUDIED Revelation you would know that it is a highly symbolic book. It is not to be taken literally. You can see that if you have truly read it yourself. There is no beast that can stand with one foot on one continent and one on another. I have not only read and studied it...I have taught it. Please take some time to learn the truth of God's Word.
Father Seraphim spoke well, but he is mistaken when it comes to the role of the bishop of Rome during the first centuries... According to St Iraneus, who is a 2nd century bishop: Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; (cont.)
Saint Peter The Rock was sent by Christ assemble the brethren by the brethren Christ was talking about the apostles. So therfore The Patriarch of Rome is the Head of The Church since it is Historical fact unargued that represents The Apostle Peter.
I'm all for what brings the message of jesus. But for me I cant help but see how much jesus was against higher archy and the monopoly the priest and temple had intervening between man and god. Jesus sent those he healed on the sabbath to directly go before priest in the temple and tell them all things was threw christ not them or the temple. This makes jesus the only intervention and He himself is the church . Of course the iconography and ritualistic symbolism would make me feel like I was knowingly sinning .praying for extra help to saints or asking for priest to pass my prayers on in Hope's of extra help just for me is wrong . For me as a gentile or anyone jesus provided me as a individual the access to pray directly to God. And my relationship with christ is direct between me and God.
thanks guys for the insight. I feel like we take jesus too literally when he's speaking in a certain context to relay more of a state of mind he wants us in rather than bullet point note taking rule book stuff. do this don't do this etc. he was teaching us how to interpret the law of god. not Making more rules
Nothing new nothing the people.novel? In the early Church people took the uecharist as a piece of bread (body) and a drink from the cup (blood) Later in time the Orthodox Church mixed it up in a bigger cup and gave the eucharist to the people on a spoon.(for a very good reason) So the Orthodox Church made some changes too. Man made alterations. Please Fr. Cardoza, your comment please.
The first Pope was ST.PETER and the Greek Orthodox Church rejected the Pope. the Catholic Church also gave us the Bible and university!!! Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to St. Peter, Matthew 16;18,24!
But the Western Church (Catholics) added "filioque" to the Nicene Creed, on their own authority, outside of a general council. Doesn't that make them the schismatics?
ORTHODOXY HAVE COPIED JUDAISM NOT JESUS NEW TESTAMENT AND HIS TEACHING THEY WORSHIP MEN AND IDOLS AND MANY ANCIENT NON Christian traditions it's very sad to me
Man what are youbsaying? Thats so sad if you dont know what Holy Orthodoxy is. I am Serbian I am Orthodox from my birth jist like my ancistors. We are Ortodox from Christ from Holy Apostoles from begining.2000 thousands years of proven faith and you are talking like that. Jesus Christ is God and our sun he is everything for us uor way our life our truth. All best for you our brother. In the Name of Father Son and Holy Spirit.Amin.
Dear friends, The Apostle Peter confessed His faith that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living GOD ! The Lord Jesus Christ said that He will build His Church on the Rock of the faith of the Apostle Peter that He just confessed ! The confusion spread by the Catholics is based on the missinterpretation that The Lord would build His church on the person of the Apostle Peter, which is not true ! The Catholics canNOT pray and worship in spirit and Truth, simply because their "truth" of faith keeps changing. It is obvious that if you believein the Truth than you change the way that you believe, you start to believe in a LIE !!!!!!!!!
So true. In Acts 10:25-26, Peter himself tells Cornelius to not bow down to him. How the RCC and I guess the OC now (I am researching their beliefs) can conclude to elevating people so high is beyond me. Even angels told biblical people to not bow down to them, they they were not worthy, and they are heavenly creatures sent to do YHWH's will. The apostles were given the holy spirit, which is God's helper (John 15:26), but Christ told the apostles that HE is the only mediator, the only way to the Father. It doesn't diminish the apostles deeds and faith, preaching the good news about God's Kingdom, but people have twisted things so much. It's crazy. Jesus, when describing the headship, didn't once mention the apostles when he mentioned the headship of the church, he said that HE was the headship, right under his Father (1 Col 11:3). Even Jesus gave no consideration to being equal to his Father (Phil 2: 5-6). I didn't know much about the OC until today, it appears the OC is pretty much the RCC lite version.
@@user-ym9wb2mk5e I agree with your arguments. However, when I look at the bible in its entirety, there were always leaders. Moses was chosen, then Aaron was to be a High Priest. The Priesthood then led, until the people requested a separate of state and faith, by requesting a king. Both kings and priests existed even during Christ's years on earth. Furthermore, hierarchies were created by God when Israel became a nation. Christ appointed Apostles, we could have said that everyone should lead themselves. There's a clear demonstration of hierarchical leadership biblically. They critical argument amongst Christians, seem to be, what is the function of the leadership and how we should address them. I can point to some indications and then people can make up their minds. We are instructed to honor our parents. There were clear instructions on how to deal with the Priests. There were clear instructions for masters to treat slaves and slaves to treat masters. There were clear instructions on the treatment of strangers, etc. Jesus himself didn't challenge the authority, he challenged their sins and their hypocrisy. In the West, our culture has evolved where we are so casual that we have little respect for people in authority. In the East, there is still some semblance of hierarchical approach. They see this as a sign of respect vs. them elevating someone or someone else. Japanese bow to everyone, including children. Do you think they are elevating them above GOD?
@@gizellelewis9866 Thanks for a civil reply. With Moses, he did elevate himself and was punished. For instance, in Numbers 20:24, in which YHWH punished Moses. Many clergy nowadays, same as the Sanhedrin, elevate themselves; "vicars". The high priest was the only one allowed in the Holy of Holies, so the vatican for example, is not following priestly tradition in a "Holy" place. Jesus DID challenge their earthly "authority", since they were tasked with teaching and leading, especially the poor and sickly. They abused that "authority" that had been given, which weighed down their people. It's also why Jesus appealed and felt sorry for those same ones being misled. Clergy have not resurrected the dead, as the apostles even did. They have created the same burdens on the "poor" with showy displays, traditions, idols/icons and false teachings. Have you watched how Bishops are ordained, by prostrating themselves and pledging allegiance to the Pope? Is that what Peter and Cornelius did? This from the churches that tout their lineage is from Peter. th-cam.com/video/V0jLZV_eoXw/w-d-xo.html God nor Jesus are in the Pope's words as the Bishops file past. Showing respect to our elders, our parents, and even our fellow man is not my argument. Everyone has to answer to someone, on earth, but if it goes against YHWH's law, or Jesus's teachings (that were given to him from the Father), then I won't obey those men to the best of my ability. Jesus brought attention to the religious leaders, for instance, for washing their elbows (an example where he calls them out for a tradition that they had questioned why he didn't practice). Matthew 15:2. I served extensively in Asia while in the military. Learned the cultures, the languages, and customs as much as possible while there. Asian tradition of bowing is in a completely different context then what Christians did back in Jesus's days. For instance, Ojigi , was from the samurai (I have studied many asian martial arts and its traditions, which is said to go back as far as 800 years;) I will end by saying that we are to respect our leaders, even if they are "evil", as they serve a purpose, similar to how YHWH even used the Babylonians to fulfill his purpose. We just have to be careful not to get mired in following man's teachings versus what YHWH expects of us.
What an ignorant comment. Our priests aren't salesmen that pitch a product for consumers. This was about the claim that the Orthodox Church is the original Church of Christ, going through its history. If you actually care, there's plenty of ways to inform yourself on the Church's Christology.
Anyone who thinks gay priests in RCC and protestant church have a fear of God, would do better getting their communion at McDonalds and their kids would be a lot safer.
The Point of being one isn't because we go to the same church Building, we are one in Christ if we are saved...I am not a Catholic or Protestant but a first century Christian...if things are added to the teaching of the Apostles talked about in the book of Acts...by men that existed many years after the first century... then these doctrines and theology that are being added to the word of God are not from Christ but men...you can't count on traditions as being holy...that is our tradition we have always done it that way...Well it's possible that your tradition is wrong and always had been... The Apostles where Discipled by Jesus, and talked to Jesus...but men that add to the teachings never walked with the Lord face to face...if it's not found scripture already in print then it's been added to Christianity by men, that's evil watering Down The Words of Christ and the disciples....
The priesthood the way described here is not biblical. It doesn't matter which way you gonna look when you pray it's important where heart is pointing at. He says that the orthodox priesthood comes out of the Jewish temple. That's so wrong. The Levitical priesthood is gone. It has fulfilled its function now is the Melchizedek priesthood
Yes, it is gone. But there is a new priesthood established by our Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 18:18 says:''Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.'' The Apostles are de facto the first bishops. It is said in Acts 1:20:''20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.'' Remember also Matthew 19:1-9:''1 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan; 2 And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there. 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.'' In order for a man and a woman to become one flesh, they must be bound by a priest. They can be bound only by a priest who has the power to bind and unbind that is passed to him through chirotnony by apostolic succession. Otherwise they would not be one flesh and would live in fornication. If the power to bind and unbind is given only to the apostles and there was not an established priesthood by apostolic succession, than only the first Christians who were contemporaries of the Apostles would escape the deadly sin of fornication. The next generations would live in fornication. I just give an example with marriage and do not mention the other sacraments. But even if you take only marriage, you can see that the rejection of the priesthood is absurd. The power to bind and unbind is also expressed in John 20:22-23:''22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.'' 1 Corinthians 4:1:''Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.'' 1 Timothy 4:14:''14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.''
Acts 10:22-26. Peter told Cornelius to get up, to now worship him, because he was a man (even though he had been performing miracles and such). Now, ask yourself if any of the churches follow his lead, seeing how they "claim" to be direct in line with Peter's teachings. Ever see the TH-cam videos of the Pope ceremonies where clergy are prostrating themselves and vowing allegiance to him, and his successors, but NOT to Jesus or YHWH? Yep, they sure are following Peter's example all right, lol. It always amazes me how people who claim to be clergy don't even read the bible, and are so blind as to their own hypocrisy.....
Perry! This is all extra-biblical stuff, doctrines of men! The Patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and may include the 12 sons of Jacob. Bishop in the NT means an elder, as does presbyter; elder, leader etc. The Pope? There is no title in the 66 books of the Bible that refers to anyone as 'Pope' (as is done today) or any word that could mean that. Jesus said "Call no man 'Father'" except our Father in Heaven (pope comes from the Greek word which translates 'papa' father. I prefer the Jewish Abba/Father). There are no Priests as we know priests to be today in some denominations. All believers in Christ are 'Priests'. Again, this is not 'priest' as denominations ie, Anglican, Catholic et al, mean priest. 1 Peter 2:9, 10: "Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.…But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"
Carrie, hello! Forgive me, but 1 Corinthians 4:15 may help expand a different view of your accusation on "call no man 'Father.'" It's easy & I'll admit reasonable to immediately loft out Christ's words on the matter. Greater truth & clarity comes from asking the question of how Paul, someone who had a direct encounter with Christ & His teachings, used the term father to address the believers in Corinth.
Does this man really read new testament, especially the book of acts? Jesus said to Samaritan that the time would comes and then neither towards to Jerusalem nor towards any other place/mountain they worship. Jesus said just before die on the cross that "it is finished" and temple has been Jesus Himself for believers who has Jesus in the hearts. Jesus said God wants people to worship in reality, in the hearts. When Jesus preached He looked at people, who were in need. He turned to them, since He himself is the TEMPLE, ALTAR AND HE SAID HE WILL BE IN US, THOSE EARTHLY ALTERS ARE NO MORE NECESSARY. That's why we read in the book of acts that believers used to get together in THEIR HOMES! The reason Apostles' going to temple was to preach the GOOD NEWS, NOT FOR THE WORSHIPING!
Pharisees were also ancient, but it was Moses' Law which is important, not Pharisees' interpretations. When you say Apostolic Roots and Churches you must know it means to me Pharisaic traditions. That's why I pointed word of Jesus, rather than other's opinions.
Jesus also instituted the practice of braking the bread and sharing the Cup in remembrance of himself as is made clear in Luke 22:19-20, where he says "καὶ λαβὼν ἄρτον εὐχαριστήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων, Τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν διδόμενον τοῦτο ποιεῖτε εἰς τὴν ἐμὴν ἀνάμνησιν. καὶ τὸ ποτήριον ὡσαύτως μετὰ τὸ δειπνῆσαι, λέγων, Τοῦτο τὸ ποτήριον ἡκαινὴ διαθήκη ἐν τῷ αἴματί μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐκχυννόμενον. (literally, and having taken bread having given thanks he broke and gave to them saying, This is the body of me the for you being given; this do in the my memory. and the cup similarly after the they ate, saying, This the cup the new covenant in the blood of me the for you being shed.) This is what we do in the Liturgy every time the liturgy is served, we do not repeat the action but rather we bring the one sacrifice of the Cross into the present. ἀνάμνησιν means not only memory but recollection and in letergical sense to bring into the present. This works as according to Orthodox belief and tradition the Liturgy dose not happen inside of time, but in the eternal now of God. Jesus is God incarnate as St James says in his Gospel "ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καί Θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἐρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν. πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρίς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο ούδὲ ἕν. ὅ γέγονεν ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀωθρώπων καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ ού κατέλαβεν." literally "in beginning was the word and the word was with the God and the God was the Word. this one was in beginning with the God all things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing. That which came into being in him was life, and the light int he darkness shines, and the darkness did not grasp it." John makes clear not all that Christ tort was recorded in scripture for all the books in the world could not contain what would be written. Within the Orthodox Church we hold that scripture is part of the Tradition which in its entirety persevered within the Church herself as the living body of Christ. This is not something that is explainable in words it has to be experienced. By the way we do not only read the bible as Orthodox Christians we worship using it, all our worship is saturated with biblical phrases and references. We hold the Gospels as a Icon of Christ in written form so we treat them as we do all icons with grate reverence, but not worship for we only worship God in Trinity. If you rely want to know how God wants to be worshiped ask him to tell you and be open to any response not just the one you want. Also come and see the worship of the Orthodox Church with an open mind before you judge, for you may be surprised.
It is plane in the Gospels that souls do not preexist but are created at the moment of conception, reference the mirical of the healing of the Man born blind. What Jeremiah is referring to is the fact that since God is outside of time he knows the whole life of each of us from the moment of our creation, and that he is intimately involved in that creation. Not that he interferes in our choices as he loves us so much that he leaves us free to make our own decisions and get things wrong, and to suffer the consequences of our choices, he dose however invite us into a relationship with him. It is possible once has advanced in the spiritual life to the point that they are approaching communion with God that they can then see God acting in the life even before they were aware of it. This is something very difficult to describe or explain and I am speaking from what I have read and heard more than experienced as I am a long way from reaching that point in my own life, though I can Look back and see the acts of God which have helped me to start on the journey.
the only lie here mike sutton is that the orthodox churches have tried their best to warp that meaning into something more suitable for them. just like you are trying to do right now.
no they haven't. We are the only ones that have remained the same since the beginning. YOU heretics, who are not Orthodox have warped everything. But what else can i expect from people who have a regular guy on a stage, hoopting and hollering like a cannibal, and telling people that numerology is equal to the word of God. So please, save your propaganda.
Perry, altars were not built and worshiped at in the NT, that was Israel's OT practices. Christ is the ultimate sacrifice, why would we now need an altar? We don't. Maybe you just made a faux pas. The bread and wine are absolutely not the actual flesh and blood of Christ, and neither did the early apostles or disciples teach such. Jesus took bread (matzo a type of wafer), and He took actual wine, both, the bread & the wine, were SYMBOLIC of His flesh and His blood. How could the disciples eat His flesh and drink His blood when He hadn't yet been to the cross?
The orthodox priest's "impressions" do not make something truth. The fact is that just as Jesus faced the Apostles at the Last Supper, so does a Catholic priest faces the church (community) who will be receiving the Body and Blood of Christ in The Eucharist. God bless.
Joe Castillo you don’t make sense. How else do you receive communion if you don’t face the people. Besides in today’s world Catholics don’t serve the blood anymore at communion only the body. Another heresy.
Philosophical nonsense is the foundation for the belief that Jesus will return from the east. He didn't say that. So this ad orientem focus is pure rubbish.
How many are there? I have lost count, so to it's irrelevant. My core question growing up in Christianity, was if the Holy Spirit guides, why so many directions? God responded, human beings involved!
Simple ... They do not follow the bible , second Ohhhh I'm sure Catholics think that they are Christians too ,and have passion for Christ . Jesus calls them hypocrites
Wow... so you know who Jesus calls and what ? wow... Now, since you know... I suppose you know why also. Can you tell me why you think that they are hypocrites... I'm sorry did you STATE that JESUS calls them hypocrites?
Allie Anderson Allie, Eastern Orthodox Christians most certainly do follow the bible -- just not your western post-reformation modernistic interpretation of it. Instead we follow the ancient Patristic interpretation / exegesis as handed down to us by the Church Fathers. Did you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church *alone* makes the claim of being the *same today as the Church of the first 1000 years* of Christianity? Or that in Her 2000 year history, the Eastern Orthodox Church has *birthed more martyrs than the rest of Christendom combined*? If you care to post a specific question perhaps someone can respond intelligibly; and maybe even have a friendly discussion. If you state which denomination / sect you belong to that would also be very helpful in attempting to dialogue with you. Before learning about Eastern Orthodoxy and becoming a catechumen (someone learning about Orthodoxy), I was formerly a Protestant for 28+ years. Many of us were formerly Protestant so some of us can actually relate to your concerns if you would have posted something meaningful instead of just name calling. Thanks!
Rodney Johnstone They are probably like I was, and thinks catholic / orthodox people are hypocrites. I was born into a church ministry family (non denominational, and then Pentecostal) and taught catholic church and its people are that way. I got into a 7 month debate with an Orthodox person and could not prove them wrong so entered the church last summer to see first hand what kind of idolatry, false worship, and all this alleged and was surprised at how true the spirit and worship was. I spent another half year for hours a day in orthodox teachings and books and it is the true church. I am now a catechumen in the orthodox church and will be a member after lent season. My family and friends are in disbelief and think it is wrong but they will not look inside enough to deserve an opinion. If they would look and taste and see what The Lord has made they would never be anywhere else.
Bryan Evers sorry for late reply... I too am catechumen in the Orthodox Church. Though started as an atheist back in the day... then Evangelical, then back slid.
Brian - I am looking into the beliefs of the OC. Can you read my posts above and possibly shed some insight on my scriptures I posted. I realize this is 2 years after you posted, but hopefully you see this.
I am ALWAYS enlightened every time I watch Fr Seraphim. My eyes and heart are always opened and the conviction sets in deep. I have repented over and over for the sloppy worship I have given to the Lord. I am currently a catechumen for the Orthodox Church.
He is humble honest and accusing no one, offers only love
Please do more shows with Father Seraphim Cardoza!
I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but in my search for truth, left the Catholic Church for many years, trying one denomination after another in my pursuit of holiness, but eventually returning to my Catholic roots. However, I've noticed a palpable difference in the sense of worship since the priests started facing the congregation instead of the alter. There seemed to be more reverence (which is what drew me back to the Catholic Church) when the priests faced the alter. I'm delighted to hear about this Orthodox Church that carries on the traditions of the early church.
+A Davis The Eastern Orthodox Church is the One True Church of God. i am sorry that you had to return back to your herecy. Obviously you havent known the Eastern Orthodox Church so i suggest you do . and if you love God and you are humble you will know that this is the One True Church of Christ. and then you will be baptised and become Christian Orthodox like so many people from heretic coutnries have done nowdays. Jonathan Jackson is one of them.Times change. Soon Latins will yield to Orthodoxy and Orthodoxy will spread from east to west as the new Saints have said in their prophecies.
A Davis. I was raised Roman Catholic. although some in my family doesn't understand, I am converting to Greek Orthodox. nothing I ever did felt so right.
Please see my comments above, I provide actual debate with scriptures, not man made books or traditions, on why the RCC and OC churches are not practicing truth in religion. I know your post as 2 years old by the time of this writing though. I have provided links to Cath sites that even show the hypocrisy of their teachings.
If it's too long of a post, above, start with Acts 10:22-26. Peter told Cornelius to get up, to now worship him, because he was a man (even though he had been performing miracles and such). Now, ask yourself if any of the churches follow his lead, seeing how they "claim" to be direct in line with Peter's teachings. Ever see the TH-cam videos of the Pope ceremonies where clergy are prostrating themselves and vowing allegiance to him, and his successors, but NOT to Jesus or YHWH? Odd, don you think?
B If YOU had actually read at least one English translation of the Holy Bible, then YOU would know that Lord Jesus the Christ stated that He will give His Church the Holy Spirit FOREVER (male prophets and female prophets), that is Holy ORAL tradition (John 14:16-17). Also, that Apostle Paul stated that Christians are to pass on WRITTEN teachings and his ORAL teachings (male teachers and female teachers), that is Holy ORAL tradition (2 Thessalonian 2:15). God's tradition is Holy Scripture, that is WRITTEN tradition and ORAL tradition, that is Holy Spirit FOREVER (male prophets and female prophets) and ORAL teachings (male teachers and female teachers). Dorcas aka Tabitha was a FEMALE DISCIPLE. Junia was a FEMALE APOSTLE. Anna was a FEMALE PROPHET. The 4 virgin daughters of Apostle Philip were FEMALE PROPHETS. Mary Magdalene was a FEMALE APOSTLE to the MALE Apostles. Apostle stated that FEMALES are the were the head covering for praying AND PROPHESYING *because of the angels* . What angels?? The ones that appeared to Mary Magdalene and gave her authority to teach MALE Apostles! Apostle Paul stated that human tradition is PERSONAL interpretations, opinions, and teachings, that is originating from the human and *not* from God and Apostles (which are originally from Lord Jesus the Christ). Apostle James stated that a person is justified by works and *not* by faith alone (James 2:24). Lord Jesus the Christ ordained Apostle Paul as Priest (Romans 15:16).Quit protesting against Christ's Church and submit to the will of God the Father! Furthermore, prostration does *not* mean worship but bowing and a human can bow in worship to God the Father and bow in respect to King David. {{{1 Chronicles 29:20 Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king.}}}
The eastern “orthodox” are soviet-founded oriental schismatic polytheists who are enemies of God and his Holy Roman Church. There cannot possibly be any salvation outside of the one true church.
Thank you for doing this show, would love to see more with Father Cardoza, we need more of this.
I am reading a History of Christianity by Paul Johnson. He does a good job of showing the development or evolution of the church, starting from John the Baptist and his introduction of Christ, on to the Apostles and the congregations / churches established by them. Great read, highly recommend it.
Wow, this man was filled such sincerity and humility like I've never seen except through Jesus Christ and the Apostles in the scriptures. It was shocking to see it in a real living person today by God's Grace!
The priest is not there to worship people, it is there to guide the people to worship God.
In Lutheran tradition, the pastor looks towards the altar when he is saying something to GOD (According to the liturgy, e.g., during the hymnos eothinos, usually called gloria) and he turns towards the people when he is saying something directed to the people (e.g., when he is announcing them GOD's forgiveness).
I love listening to Fr Seraphim Cardoza. Nice interviews!
If I ever go to oregon I hope I can meet him.
We want to hear more about the church F. Seraphim is building. Please post something!
Peace be with you.
GOD BLESS YOU FR. SERAPHIM
Just a thought for some saying that the altar is old testament and now jesus is our alter. Look at the book of Revelation, consider how worship is being done in heaven, and ought we to do like wise? Now ask yourself, does your church look anything like that on a Sunday morning?
@Henry Rappleyea This is addressed in the liturgy, yes.
@Brian Juntunen // "Did the first Christians who met in homes use altars and priests? I don't see that." //
Yes, they sure did use alters! There's no doubt about this. The evidence for this is in every single archaeological dig - without exception - of the most ancient churches. You will notice from photographs that the table/alter was always the focal point in the church building's architecture. Check out Dura-Europos church in Syria and Meggido church in Palestine. No church prior to the Protestant Reformation had pulpits as the focal point (as is usually the case in Protestantism/Evangelicism).
As to priests, yes they did as well. Priest is phonetically English (from the French "prêtre", which is from the Latin "Presbyter" - and that from the Greek "presbyteros"). Very briefly, Priest and Bishop (Episcopos) were the same office - yet within the New Testament itself and during the lives of the Apostles (as the Church expanded) - these two terms bifurcated into distinct offices for all Christians. This is totally legitimate and is reflected in the later New Testament Epistles.
Tuğba Erdal You must understand that the rejection of the holy icons and holy remains of the saints means rejection of all the miracles that they are related to. That is dangerously close the situation where the Pharisees blasphemed the Holy Ghost when they thought that the miracles of Jesus were performed by unclean spirits. That is a blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. The Seventh Ecumenical Council was invoked due the iconoclastic heresy. It was determined that they should be venerated. We believe that the Holy Ghost has spoken at the Ecumenical Councils just like He did at the council in Jerusalem around 51 AD. So their veneration is a commandment of God.
Tuğba Erdal Seventh Ecumenical Council, Canon IX.
All the childish devices and mad ravings which have been falsely written against the venerable images, must be delivered up to the Episcopium of Constantinople, that they may be locked away with the other heretical books. And if anyone is found hiding such books, if he be a bishop or presbyter or deacon, let him be deposed; but if he be a monk or layman, let him be anathema.
Tuğba Erdal You don't understand that the rules, canons and decisions of the Ecumenical Councils are from the Holy Ghost, therefore they are also the word of God. The Church Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils were driven by the Holy Ghost. Acts 20:28:''Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.'' Also the Ecumenical Councils fight with the heresies. They were convened when there was a serious heresy threatening the Church. They have not perverted the Christian teaching, but affirmed it. You have a wrong perception of ecclesiology. The Church is the Body of Christ and the Holy Ghost dwells within it. It is a divine-human organism that is led by the Holy Spirit. And the gates of hell shall not prevail over against it. (Matthew 16:18).
Tuğba Erdal If any ancient church did not have icons, it was certainly the exception rather than the rule. Eastern Orthodox Churches _always_ had iconography. Occasionally, stirred by the demonic hatred of the incarnation, various heretical iconoclasts would rise up and try to persecute the church through 'zeal not according to knowledge'. These iconoclasts were always destroyed by the power of Truth and the Holy Spirit. You are probably familiar with the Old Testament prohibition against making graven images (Ex 20_4), but did you know that the original word in Hebrew 'pe-sel' biblehub.com/hebrew/fesel_6459.htm means neither 'graven' nor 'image' but specifically an idol i.e. something which is worshiped as a god. It is not broadly prohibiting all images as such.
You speak of Hellenism as if it was an evil influence contrary to God's will. Does He Who set forth the paths of the celestial bodies and Who determined the signs and seasons and Who ordains the times and ages and Who gives authority to earthly rulers and kings not have control over the course of human history and cultures? Do you think it's an accident that the New Testament Scriptures were written in the Greek language? Or that before the birth of the Lord the Old Testament was translated into the Greek Language (*the Septuagint*) which is the translation that the New Testament quotes most extensively from; the translation that the Eastern Orthodox Church uses for the Old Testament Scriptures. Both the Judaism of the time of the incarnation as well as the Early Christian Church were thoroughly Hellenized. Where do you think New Testament names such as Nicodemus and Theophilus comes from -- do they sound Semitic to you? Did not the Lord Himself prophesy the role of the Greeks in carrying forth the message of the Gospels: _'And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.'_ John 12_20
You mentioned in another post about the early Christians simply worshipping in the houses of believers. You said:
*QUOTE* _'That's why we read in the book of acts that believers used to get together in THEIR HOMES!'_
Do you know what ancient house churches were actually like? Are you aware of Duro-Europos (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_church) in present day Syria, the *oldest discovered house church* circa 233 - 256 -- and that it had iconography? This is pre-Saint Constantine by the way. Are you aware that in the Old Testament Temple (the place the Lord referred to as His Father's House) we find images:
on the Ark (Ex. 25_18)
on the Curtains of the Tabernacle (Ex. 26_1)
on the Veil of the Holy of Holies Ex (26_31)
Two huge Cherubim in the Sanctuary - (1st Kings 6_23)
on the Walls - (1st Kings 6_29)
on the Doors - (1st Kings 6_32)
and on the furnishings (1st Kings 7_29,36)
in other words almost everywhere you turned -- the same experience you would have if you were to walk into a properly built Orthodox Christian Temple today [source: orthodoxinfo.com/general/icon_faq.aspx] with the two exceptions:
1. that we have iconography on the ceilings as well-- since the heavens also now have been opened for us in the New Testament
2. we have icons not only of the seraphim and cherubim but of the Saints as well because they are now in Heaven.
By the way, everything sola-scriptura folks find so objectionable about Orthodox Worship: *incense, the cross (the sign of the Lord), priestly vestments, the golden lamps, the altar, the Mother of the Lord, the Saints and Martyrs, intercessory prayer, liturgical worship, monasticism / asceticism,* etc, is actually right there in the Holy Scriptures, especially *in the Book of Revelation* if you know where to look.
Godly Matthew, You have ONLY one home church example that is Dura-Europos. In fact it was a synagogue and christians made those images on it. It is not Jewish. When I mention hellenistic influence, I do not mean language, etc, but religious which was a pagan religion's influence to Judaism and Christianity. It is all happened at same time, by Rome. There are also synagogues in Judea that have Roman Sun God worshiping icons there with zodiac. But the question is this, are there any similar Jewish synagogues from pre-Roman era, let say 600-700 BC that has such icons, images in it? The answer is NO! God always hated those cultures and their influence. It was not only Romans and Greeks who were worshiping to sun god, it was the people of Canaanites too. The depiction of Sun God figure in those hellenistic synagogues are the same with Roman sun god depiction. Is it a coincidence? And Jews must have known that God before hated those things, 2.Kings:5-11.
As you know God never allowed making images of any person, if it would be like your saying we should have seen all over Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, etc, all those people's depiction in Israel, but where are they? God meant exactly what he meant and Jews understand it very well. And all those images that were in the Temple were pointing done by God's specific order for just that place. Not for synagogues. And those items in Temple were never worshiped as God or HOLY! But Roman Christianity allow and declare those items in church as if they have holiness and holy and must be respected as if they are HOLY GOD! Sorry, but no matter how much you want to twist the scripture and history, you can not get any thing. İconoclast is from God, because He knew these would happen, He knew. It always ended with worshiping. İcons in churches appear hundreds of later. Even in the first churches for example in Turkey Durmus Kadir Church in Capadoccia is the earliest church in there and it has not any icons or images or alter. They say it is from 6th century, if it is so, it was in Roman Empire that adopted christianity lately. Anyway, today those images in churches are not viewed as pictures that remind people the things from New testament, but they are rather objects of worshiping, directly and by addressing to those objects and images, which is strictly forbidden. Forget kneeling and giving respect to an image, they do worse thing, they talk to other spirits in spirit, it is spiritual adultary, fornication and it is done against to Holy Spirit.
16:07 to 16:20 Amen Amen
When I was 12 my Nana wanted me to become an Orthodox Priest when I grew up but I lived a different life
For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its PREEMINENT AUTHORITY -- that is, the faithful everywhere -- inasmuch as the Apostolic Tradition has been preserved continuously by those who are everywhere.
Ever heard of the 28th Canon? Rome was Central due to being the administrative center of the Empire, not because Jesus founded His Church upon a single city or Apostle. Rome moved its Capital to Constantinople, and Canon 28 recognizes and codifies that move. The very fact that there were Great Ecumenical Councils (precisely Zero of which took place in Old Rome or any Latin or Germanic province or City, all being held in the East) rather than Magisterium-directed "Ex Cathedras" demonstrates that the Church's governance was/is Conciliar, properly. This is also seen in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. St. Peter was Bishop in Antioch before ever traveling to Rome (which he evangelized with St. Paul, BTW, and not on his own). Going further, he was an evangelist in Old Rome, he's not even listed as a Bishop in the oldest lists, the first Roman Bishop was St. Linus, by nearly all ancient accounts.
I forget the verse but it openly states that translation and church practice will and is expected to change ti the times and technology ,language changes etc .this was expected and the first 7 churches faced this problem .all the answer for the church structure is there in the gospels .
The first 7 churches had the same problems we face in our churches today .
2. Irenaeus states "We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith."
Also, early Christian worship consisted of the word (OT & NT), the lord's supper, spiritual gifts, prayer and possibly included some singing, distribution of money and oaths.
Im sorry to seem like I am trolling your comments hahaha but if i might add one more thing. The progression of the church in the west is that it is becoming more and more about what G-d can do for is congregation. The emphasis on liturgy is paying homage respect and unity in christ. The Sermon is about giving something to the people which they can attach to there daily lives, taking away the liturgy makes it that service becomes more people based and only about the people.
What does he think about Constantinople? Greek Orthodox were persecuted badly in Anatolia.
Kierkegaard wrote about the fact that it is impossible to be a Christian today in the sense of first century Christians. I agree. There is no formality that actually survives, even the Orthodox is corrupted by the Jews, but God is good and he is gracious unto all who call upon him, for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
as well as giving the speaker more attention and respect and power than he/she should have. As far as Kierkegaard goes would you be willing to expand more on what he said exactly and where I may read? I actually like Kierkegaard, thank you
Lutherans (LCMS, WELS) still have the altar.
[we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the Apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious Aapostles, Peter and Paul; as also means of the successions of the bishops. (cont.)
My dear Brother in Christ,
You'll find that many, if not most of the earliest Christians, (that were Jewish coverts) would actually go to Jewish service on Saturday (for Shabbath) and Sunday (for Resurrection of Our Savior) and more and more historical evidence goes to show that the early Christianity was a sect of Judaism, though revolutionary in theology similar in practice. Our Lord and Savior did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. So we can not ignore the old.
but we can ignore the CHRIST KILLERS
In the Western churches we don't worship the people either. Did the first Christians who met in homes use altars and priests? I don't see that. These were later developments and were the very things that Paul was warning the Gentile converts to watch out for, the Judaising that was so pervasive.
I mean, I like a lot about the Orthodox church, but copying the temple was not prescribed, neither facing certain directions, we worship in Spirit and in truth.
Well inAntioch the Head was ashamed to be seen with gentile christians and was rebuked by Paul. In Acts 15, The only instance in in which doctrine was discussed the decision is taken by the council of Apostles and the one guiding the debate and summarizing the decision is James, not Peter, who should have if what you said was true. The council of Bishops is inspired by the Holy Spirit, and is therefore the mouth of God, not one person, even if it is the Bishop of Rome.
The first named Pope was in Alexandria Egypt and in corinth or ephesus was named bishop .the evangelical was sent to Alexandria .
Tbh cercusism was really a issue for one generation of adults.
In USA most are circumisized at birth and in modern times it's a health benefit to have it done.
Health benefits to be circumcised?
American men have the highest rates of STDs in first world countries; between 14-30 years old.
That may have changed, given that data came to light when I was doing research a few years ago.
I'm aware but what's the point of being first among equals when Saint Peter was clearly not equal to the others. Its quite obvious that He had a higher calling. If The Patriarch of Rome in the line of Peter represents Him. Then He has the power to assemble them and also to bind and loose descisions as chief Bishop. This is not to knock the holy orthodox people it is to unite rightfully under one banner a seperated church body. The Head is Peter and The head carries with it The Mouth of God.
Absolutely right!
I like how at the end the host sends, "according to scripture Jesus is the only way to heaven and that offends a lot of people" ha! No saints, virgins, images, just Jesus.
The main issue I see with Christianity today is a lack of spiritual leadership. Jesus was able to inspire many billions of people to follow him over the years. Unfortunately that number is declining because today there aren't many good examples of Jesus' teachings being demonstrated by the Christians themselves. Lead by example and people will follow!
wrong. The issue is there are too many heretical groups. If they stayed with Orthodoxy, you wouldn't be having these issues now.
And or things. Father Seraphim is Correct and Catholics do face the alter
Think of the Priest as an Orchestra Conductor.
Infinite beings
I am researching the Orthodox Christian beliefs. I came across something that states the OC believes that Mary was and continued to stay a virgin after Christ's birth. If that is the case, then can someone who is in the OC explain to me how Christ had brother's and sisters, mentioned quite often in the bible?
Also, when it comes to saints, how can Adam and Eve be considered saints when they committed the original sins, were banished from Eden, and bore us all into a life of sin. I also read that CO believes that Angels are considered saints? Granted, I am fairly new to the CO faith, so I am hopeful someone can lead me to a good source of their beliefs.
The so-called "brothers and sisters" of Christ were Joseph's children from a previous marriage. You may refer for more on this issue here: www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/praktikes/panagia2.htm
Note also that before Jesus Christ die on the cross said to His mother "Woman, behold thy son" [John 19:26] indicating John. If Mary had other children too, what would be the purpose for all this?
Adam and Eve sinned but also repented and when Jesus Christ descended to Hades after His death, they accepted Him as their Savior and were saved: i.ytimg.com/vi/RcpMBAjIe54/maxresdefault.jpg
Yes, Angels are Saints and members of the Heavenly Church. Note that on the original Greek text of [Mark 8:38] the phrase "holy angels" is written as "ΤΩΝ ΑΓΓΕΛΩΝ ΤΩΝ ΑΓΙΩΝ", where ΑΓΙΩΝ=Saints.
A topic that has been contested over the years, lol:
In those days, it was an honor to be blessed with children, you can see that by many biblical accounts of women pleading to God because they were barren. There is NO evidence that Joseph was married before Mary, only that he was older than her. If you have actual scripture, then please show me.
Mat 1:25 clearly states Joseph did not consummate the marriage until after Jesus was born. That is scripture, not a "what if" scenario. That scripture alone shows she did NOT stay a virgin, something the RCC and OC seem to push.
Mat 12:46,47 states his mother and brothers were waiting to talk to Jesus.
Mat 13:54-56 and Mark 6:3 clearly shows that people knew of Joseph, Mary, and all of his siblings; they didn't say cousins or "spiritual" brothers and sisters, which he didn't have at that time since his ministry hadn't started.
Luke 2:43 - We do know Joseph was alive at the time Jesus was a boy in the temple, the scripture says his parents were looking for him. So in 12 years of marriage, they didn't have any kids? Scripture says otherwise.
John 7:5 shows that Jesus told Mary and John that they were son and mother, the same way you would tell your mom to be entrusted to a close friend, whom was like family, if your siblings were not of faith. If his siblings were non believers, he knew her spiritual well being was left in John's hands.
Jeremiah 7:18 - The RCC and OC seems to trying to make Mary into something she was not, by keeping the "mother of God" and "queen of Heaven" pagan traditions. Having month long holidays dedicated to her isn't biblical, or even the "saints" , it's pagan and no one has been able to show me where God or Jesus said she was to be elevated in such a manner. It takes away the undeserving gift that Christ gave us, via God, of his death. Jesus is THE only mediator between us and God, YHWH.
Acts 2:4 - Mary then disappears from the text after his ascension, she is last mentioned during the time all his disciples were gathered and the Holy Spirit was placed upon them.
I am not trying to take away from Mary's gift of being the mother or Jesus, but Jesus din't say to elevate her. She was filled with the Holy Spirit, the same as other's and we can be filled also. Does that make us saint's also? No.
Also, when the angel appeared to Joseph and told them to leave, due to Herod, the angel only mentioned Mary and Jesus, not any other imaginary children to take with them.
Idols - Micah 5:13 - Yet, in just one example, Nikolai Chudotvorets, shows prayer in front of his statue. How can anyone say that isn't worshiping an idol, similar to so many biblical accounts of false worship? The carrying his bones in the streets? There are statues of Seraphim of Sarov, a temple for him, he was considered a mystic among other things.
How can anyone think that these, and more examples, of traditions, festivals, or rituals are clean and inspired by God? YHWH forbids it and yet, people want to be blind and believe the lies instead of what he commands of us.
Deuteronomy 14:1 & Leviticus 19:28 - How many traditions of people cutting, beating, and torturing themselves are done openly in the streets during festivals, yet claim it holy in front GOd to see, it's a forbidden practice! Jeshua gave his life for us, tortured, so those things are detestable and goes against his sacrifice.
*- “There is NO evidence that Joseph was married before Mary, only that he was older than her. If you have actual scripture, then please show me.”*
This is exactly the trap of “Sola Scriptura”... Protestants who have excluded themselves from the 2000 year Holy Tradition of the Church find it difficult accept anything that it is not written in the Bible. However Bible itself stresses the fact that it is only the written part of the Tradition that Christians have to keep: “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle” [2 Thessalonians 2:15]. Joseph’s marriage and his children he had before his engagement with Mary and also Mary’s virginity before-during-after the Birth of Jesus Christ, are common knowledge for any Orthodox 2000 years now, but unfortunately are still a question for Protestants.
*- Mat **1:25** clearly states Joseph did not consummate the marriage until after Jesus was born. That is scripture, not a "what if" scenario. That scripture alone shows she did NOT stay a virgin, something the RCC and OC seem to push.*
[Matthew 1:25] says what happened BEFORE Jesus’ Birth, so you can’t judge from that verse what happened AFTER Jesus’ Birth. And something more here: The word ‘until’ on [Matthew 1:25] and in Scripture in general doesn’t imply that what happened BEFORE the ‘until’ will not continue to happen AFTER that. For example on [Matthew 28:20] Jesus Christ says “... and behold, I am with you every day, until the end of time”. So, because Jesus said “until”, are we to understand that the Lord will not be with us, AFTER the end of time?
*- Mat **12:46**,47 states his mother and brothers were waiting to talk to Jesus. Mat **13:54**-56 and Mark 6:3 clearly shows that people knew of Joseph, Mary, and all of his siblings; they didn't say cousins or "spiritual" brothers and sisters, which he didn't have at that time since his ministry hadn't started.*
In Judaea of that time the engagement in between Joseph and Mary, although was not the same as marriage, did have legal status. So Jesus Christ was considered, legally speaking, as “carpenter's son” and brother of James, Joses, Simon, Judas and their sisters. That’s why during the decree Caesar Augustus so as everyone should be taxed, Mary traveled to Joseph’s homeland (Bethlehem) as she was legally considered (and of course the new-born Jesus) as member of Joseph’s family.
*- Luke **2:43** - We do know Joseph was alive at the time Jesus was a boy in the temple, the scripture says his parents were looking for him. So in 12 years of marriage, they didn't have any kids? Scripture says otherwise.*
Scripture doesn’t say otherwise; you are just guessing.
*- John 7:5 shows that Jesus told Mary and John that they were son and mother, the same way you would tell your mom to be entrusted to a close friend, whom was like family, if your siblings were not of faith. If his siblings were non believers, he knew her spiritual well being was left in John's hands.*
Jesus Christ being God also knew that after His Resurrection his brothers would believe in Him. James became the first Bishop of Jerusalem and wrote one of the Epistles of New Testament, while Judas wrote another one. So Jesus didn’t trust His mother to John because he was afraid of His brothers. It was His will that His Virgin mother to be entrusted to His virgin disciple.
*- Jeremiah **7:18** - The RCC and OC seems to trying to make Mary into something she was not, by keeping the "mother of God" and "queen of Heaven" pagan traditions. Having month long holidays dedicated to her isn't biblical, or even the "saints" , it's pagan and no one has been able to show me where God or Jesus said she was to be elevated in such a manner. It takes away the undeserving gift that Christ gave us, via God, of his death. Jesus is THE only mediator between us and God, YHWH.*
I agree that Jesus Christ is the only meditator between us and God, but talking about the honor of saints and their invocation is something completely different. I would propose you to read this: www.oodegr.com/english/protestantism/invocation_saints.htm
*- Acts 2:4 - Mary then disappears from the text after his ascension, she is last mentioned during the time all his disciples were gathered and the Holy Spirit was placed upon them. I am not trying to take away from Mary's gift of being the mother or Jesus, but Jesus din't say to elevate her. She was filled with the Holy Spirit, the same as other's and we can be filled also. Does that make us saint's also? No.*
Jesus Christ has elevated His mother more than me and you can imagine... “for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.” [Luke 1:48-49]
*- Also, when the angel appeared to Joseph and told them to leave, due to Herod, the angel only mentioned Mary and Jesus, not any other imaginary children to take with them.*
The rest of Joseph’s children wasn’t in danger. Only Jesus was in danger and should escape Herod, so why should all Joseph’s family leave to Egypt?
*- Idols - Micah **5:13** - Yet, in just one example, Nikolai Chudotvorets, shows prayer in front of his statue. How can anyone say that isn't worshiping an idol, similar to so many biblical accounts of false worship? The carrying his bones in the streets? There are statues of Seraphim of Sarov, a temple for him, he was considered a mystic among other things. How can anyone think that these, and more examples, of traditions, festivals, or rituals are clean and inspired by God? YHWH forbids it and yet, people want to be blind and believe the lies instead of what he commands of us.*
Idol is something that draws our attention from the One True God and replaces Him as an object which is worshiped. On the contrary holy icons, holy relics, etc are directing us straight to God as for our worship. Why do you find it difficult to accept that God Who transmitted His Grace through His clothes [Matthew 14:36], St. Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons [Acts 16:12] and even St. Peter’s shadow [Acts 5:15-16] is “not allowed” to do the same through an icon or a relic of a saint? As for relics see also [2 Kings, 13:21].
SMW - LOL, well, I trust the Bible more than a man's opinion. When I debate, I use actual scripture and typically multiple verses to back up my stance. So I will ask you, show me the verses that states in the bible that Joseph was married before. Your butt hurt speculation, opinion, or wanting something to be true in invalid in this case since you can't. If you can, please show me that.
There are many speculations on how old he was at the time of death though, typically 80 - 95 depending on where you get your info from. You and I were NOT there, so we have scripture to guide us on what we need to know, not guess or speculate.
WE know for a FACT, not opinion or speculation, what scripture says to be the case on Jesus's brother's and sister's though. Since speculation is the topic, how do you not know that Joseph was being guided to not have married, until Mary, even if he wasn't aware. If he was previously married, what if his wife was still alive at the time he met Mary, he wouldn't have been able to marry her. See how that works?!
Luke 4.20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.
This Priesthood is Royalty
why is that?\
***** No, the clergy are ordained to certain functions. The laity are referred to as "The Royal Priesthood."
Mike C = ignorant fool.
On the contrary, you are prideful, ignorant and doing a good job of serving evil. You seem to have the need to burn other people's belief and claim you are the only one who is practicing the correct form of Christianity. You have chosen the religion of the Pharisee and not Christ's teachings. Go find someone else to play your little mind game and give my regards to Jack Chick.
well Peter first founded Antioch then went oun to found Rome among other churches, and in the early church the Pope of Rome was respecteded as first among equals having no authority over the other Patriarchs, and all were resopnicable to the synod of bishops in the area. all the Patriarchies have had heretics in them including as the Patriach, that includes Rome, but the faith has maintained true despite the failings of the indervidual people.
one honest question coming from a protestant interested in this very much. when jesus says call no man father. why do u take the title father. I'm very opened to an explaination
What is generally accepted is that Jesus was saying do not put any man in the place of Father God. People don't think that Jesus was forbidding children from calling their fathers father, or dad, but rather that he was saying don't put anything in the place of Father God. The title of Father for priests comes from 'the Early Church Fathers' and is used to denote an elder of the church. Priest is another term for elder in the orthodox church. Naturally there is the priesthood of all believers, but we don't believe in the elderhood of all believers (as there is a distinction in the Bible). So priest= elder. Father= title denoting elderhood.
I may be wrong, but I think I remember reading this explanation somewhere.
Read the verse before and after of that verse that you are quoting....you can read there "call no man your teacher"....for sure we call our teachers, teacher. My point here is, that verse is not literal. It means that do not put any man in the pace of God.
Gonna try to give you some food, brother, with my poor english... Jesus calls Abraham, "Our Father Abraham"... and Paul, speaking to the young Church of his time, said "I became your father through our Lord Jesus"...
In fact it's a honorific title... and nothing else.
God Bless you...
father is not a title for an orthodox priest. You obviously will never refer to him with ONLY his given name, so you call him father in acknowledgment of Christ as the one true father. Sorry my English may not be clear enough.
We never drank anything or ate in Catholicism
Interesting that they said that the early church of Christ had altars. The only mention of an altar in the New Testament, that was not Jewish, is in the book of Hebrews and it states that OUR (Christian) altar is in heaven. There were and still are not any altars on the earth in TRUE Christianity. Sorry folks.
Read Revelation and redact your understanding. Also, arguments from silence are illogical
If you have STUDIED Revelation you would know that it is a highly symbolic book. It is not to be taken literally. You can see that if you have truly read it yourself. There is no beast that can stand with one foot on one continent and one on another. I have not only read and studied it...I have taught it. Please take some time to learn the truth of God's Word.
@@rogergenung410 They say the early church had altars because they literally are the same church as the early church and they have always had altars.
Father Seraphim spoke well, but he is mistaken when it comes to the role of the bishop of Rome during the first centuries... According to St Iraneus, who is a 2nd century bishop: Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; (cont.)
Saint Peter The Rock was sent by Christ assemble the brethren by the brethren Christ was talking about the apostles. So therfore The Patriarch of Rome is the Head of The Church since it is Historical fact unargued that represents The Apostle Peter.
Maestro,
Absolutely true!
I'm all for what brings the message of jesus.
But for me I cant help but see how much jesus was against higher archy and the monopoly the priest and temple had intervening between man and god.
Jesus sent those he healed on the sabbath to directly go before priest in the temple and tell them all things was threw christ not them or the temple.
This makes jesus the only intervention and
He himself is the church .
Of course the iconography and ritualistic symbolism would make me feel like I was knowingly sinning .praying for extra help to saints or asking for priest to pass my prayers on in Hope's of extra help just for me is wrong .
For me as a gentile or anyone jesus provided me as a individual the access to pray directly to God. And my relationship with christ is direct between me and God.
Martin pardon me God is infinite. Cores just go to show an example that such a thing of
thanks guys for the insight. I feel like we take jesus too literally when he's speaking in a certain context to relay more of a state of mind he wants us in rather than bullet point note taking rule book stuff. do this don't do this etc. he was teaching us how to interpret the law of god. not Making more rules
Nothing new nothing the people.novel? In the early Church people took the uecharist as a piece of bread (body) and a drink from the cup (blood) Later in time the Orthodox Church mixed it up in a bigger cup and gave the eucharist to the people on a spoon.(for a very good reason) So the Orthodox Church made some changes too. Man made alterations. Please Fr. Cardoza, your comment please.
Baby grew into an adult person... it would be very wrong to expect adult to retain baby's look. However, resemblance is obvious.
The first Pope was ST.PETER and the Greek Orthodox Church rejected the Pope. the Catholic Church also gave us the Bible and university!!! Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to St. Peter, Matthew 16;18,24!
stop using Vatican logic to describe that. You're way off base.
But the Western Church (Catholics) added "filioque" to the Nicene Creed, on their own authority, outside of a general council. Doesn't that make them the schismatics?
Presbyter doesn't mean priest!
It does. The Greeks still call their priests presbyters.
The reason why the orthodox rejected the pope, is because Peter, the first pope moved to Rome. Otherwise it would have been alright for the orthodox.
No ...there was no Popes back in those days ....all the popes 'till the 8. Centuary were orthodox christians ...some of them great saints....
ORTHODOXY HAVE COPIED JUDAISM NOT JESUS NEW TESTAMENT AND HIS TEACHING
THEY WORSHIP MEN AND IDOLS AND MANY ANCIENT NON Christian traditions it's very sad to me
Man what are youbsaying? Thats so sad if you dont know what Holy Orthodoxy is. I am Serbian I am Orthodox from my birth jist like my ancistors. We are Ortodox from Christ from Holy Apostoles from begining.2000 thousands years of proven faith and you are talking like that. Jesus Christ is God and our sun he is everything for us uor way our life our truth. All best for you our brother. In the Name of Father Son and Holy Spirit.Amin.
Are you a Greek?
So you say...
Dear friends,
The Apostle Peter confessed His faith that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living GOD ! The Lord Jesus Christ said that He will build His Church on the Rock of the faith of the Apostle Peter that He just confessed ! The confusion spread by the Catholics is based on the missinterpretation that The Lord would build His church on the person of the Apostle Peter, which is not true !
The Catholics canNOT pray and worship in spirit and Truth, simply because their "truth" of faith keeps changing. It is obvious that if you believein the Truth than you change the way that you believe, you start to believe in a LIE !!!!!!!!!
So true. In Acts 10:25-26, Peter himself tells Cornelius to not bow down to him. How the RCC and I guess the OC now (I am researching their beliefs) can conclude to elevating people so high is beyond me. Even angels told biblical people to not bow down to them, they they were not worthy, and they are heavenly creatures sent to do YHWH's will.
The apostles were given the holy spirit, which is God's helper (John 15:26), but Christ told the apostles that HE is the only mediator, the only way to the Father. It doesn't diminish the apostles deeds and faith, preaching the good news about God's Kingdom, but people have twisted things so much. It's crazy. Jesus, when describing the headship, didn't once mention the apostles when he mentioned the headship of the church, he said that HE was the headship, right under his Father (1 Col 11:3). Even Jesus gave no consideration to being equal to his Father (Phil 2: 5-6).
I didn't know much about the OC until today, it appears the OC is pretty much the RCC lite version.
@@user-ym9wb2mk5e I agree with your arguments. However, when I look at the bible in its entirety, there were always leaders.
Moses was chosen, then Aaron was to be a High Priest. The Priesthood then led, until the people requested a separate of state and faith, by requesting a king. Both kings and priests existed even during Christ's years on earth.
Furthermore, hierarchies were created by God when Israel became a nation.
Christ appointed Apostles, we could have said that everyone should lead themselves.
There's a clear demonstration of hierarchical leadership biblically.
They critical argument amongst Christians, seem to be, what is the function of the leadership and how we should address them.
I can point to some indications and then people can make up their minds.
We are instructed to honor our parents.
There were clear instructions on how to deal with the Priests.
There were clear instructions for masters to treat slaves and slaves to treat masters.
There were clear instructions on the treatment of strangers, etc.
Jesus himself didn't challenge the authority, he challenged their sins and their hypocrisy.
In the West, our culture has evolved where we are so casual that we have little respect for people in authority.
In the East, there is still some semblance of hierarchical approach.
They see this as a sign of respect vs. them elevating someone or someone else.
Japanese bow to everyone, including children. Do you think they are elevating them above GOD?
@@gizellelewis9866 Thanks for a civil reply. With Moses, he did elevate himself and was punished. For instance, in Numbers 20:24, in which YHWH punished Moses. Many clergy nowadays, same as the Sanhedrin, elevate themselves; "vicars". The high priest was the only one allowed in the Holy of Holies, so the vatican for example, is not following priestly tradition in a "Holy" place. Jesus DID challenge their earthly "authority", since they were tasked with teaching and leading, especially the poor and sickly. They abused that "authority" that had been given, which weighed down their people. It's also why Jesus appealed and felt sorry for those same ones being misled.
Clergy have not resurrected the dead, as the apostles even did. They have created the same burdens on the "poor" with showy displays, traditions, idols/icons and false teachings. Have you watched how Bishops are ordained, by prostrating themselves and pledging allegiance to the Pope? Is that what Peter and Cornelius did? This from the churches that tout their lineage is from Peter.
th-cam.com/video/V0jLZV_eoXw/w-d-xo.html
God nor Jesus are in the Pope's words as the Bishops file past. Showing respect to our elders, our parents, and even our fellow man is not my argument. Everyone has to answer to someone, on earth, but if it goes against YHWH's law, or Jesus's teachings (that were given to him from the Father), then I won't obey those men to the best of my ability. Jesus brought attention to the religious leaders, for instance, for washing their elbows (an example where he calls them out for a tradition that they had questioned why he didn't practice). Matthew 15:2.
I served extensively in Asia while in the military. Learned the cultures, the languages, and customs as much as possible while there. Asian tradition of bowing is in a completely different context then what Christians did back in Jesus's days. For instance, Ojigi , was from the samurai (I have studied many asian martial arts and its traditions, which is said to go back as far as 800 years;) I will end by saying that we are to respect our leaders, even if they are "evil", as they serve a purpose, similar to how YHWH even used the Babylonians to fulfill his purpose. We just have to be careful not to get mired in following man's teachings versus what YHWH expects of us.
This guy is full of him self many families are running away from him and now going to the o.c.a
Once again, where's Jesus? Oh yeah when ppl put religion first, Jesus winds up being last.
who do you think put together the writings of the new testament and ensured these writings were preserved?
What an ignorant comment. Our priests aren't salesmen that pitch a product for consumers. This was about the claim that the Orthodox Church is the original Church of Christ, going through its history. If you actually care, there's plenty of ways to inform yourself on the Church's Christology.
Anyone who thinks gay priests in RCC and protestant church have a fear of God, would do better getting their communion at McDonalds and their kids would be a lot safer.
The Point of being one isn't because we go to the same church Building, we are one in Christ if we are saved...I am not a Catholic or Protestant but a first century Christian...if things are added to the teaching of the Apostles talked about in the book of Acts...by men that existed many years after the first century... then these doctrines and theology that are being added to the word of God are not from Christ but men...you can't count on traditions as being holy...that is our tradition we have always done it that way...Well it's possible that your tradition is wrong and always had been... The Apostles where Discipled by Jesus, and talked to Jesus...but men that add to the teachings never walked with the Lord face to face...if it's not found scripture already in print then it's been added to Christianity by men, that's evil watering Down The Words of Christ and the disciples....
The priesthood the way described here is not biblical.
It doesn't matter which way you gonna look when you pray it's important where heart is pointing at.
He says that the orthodox priesthood comes out of the Jewish temple. That's so wrong. The Levitical priesthood is gone. It has fulfilled its function now is the Melchizedek priesthood
Yes, it is gone. But there is a new priesthood established by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 18:18 says:''Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.'' The Apostles are de facto the first bishops. It is said in Acts 1:20:''20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.'' Remember also Matthew 19:1-9:''1 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judaea beyond Jordan;
2 And great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.''
In order for a man and a woman to become one flesh, they must be bound by a priest. They can be bound only by a priest who has the power to bind and unbind that is passed to him through chirotnony by apostolic succession. Otherwise they would not be one flesh and would live in fornication. If the power to bind and unbind is given only to the apostles and there was not an established priesthood by apostolic succession, than only the first Christians who were contemporaries of the Apostles would escape the deadly sin of fornication. The next generations would live in fornication. I just give an example with marriage and do not mention the other sacraments. But even if you take only marriage, you can see that the rejection of the priesthood is absurd.
The power to bind and unbind is also expressed in John 20:22-23:''22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.''
1 Corinthians 4:1:''Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.''
1 Timothy 4:14:''14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.''
All Orthodox priests are ordained by the order of Melchizedek.
Acts 10:22-26. Peter told Cornelius to get up, to now worship him, because he was a man (even though he had been performing miracles and such). Now, ask yourself if any of the churches follow his lead, seeing how they "claim" to be direct in line with Peter's teachings.
Ever see the TH-cam videos of the Pope ceremonies where clergy are prostrating themselves and vowing allegiance to him, and his successors, but NOT to Jesus or YHWH? Yep, they sure are following Peter's example all right, lol.
It always amazes me how people who claim to be clergy don't even read the bible, and are so blind as to their own hypocrisy.....
kotarak gak tau apa apa kau
Perry! This is all extra-biblical stuff, doctrines of men! The Patriarchs: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and may include the 12 sons of Jacob. Bishop in the NT means an elder, as does presbyter; elder, leader etc. The Pope? There is no title in the 66 books of the Bible that refers to anyone as 'Pope' (as is done today) or any word that could mean that. Jesus said "Call no man 'Father'" except our Father in Heaven (pope comes from the Greek word which translates 'papa' father. I prefer the Jewish Abba/Father).
There are no Priests as we know priests to be today in some denominations. All believers in Christ are 'Priests'. Again, this is not 'priest' as denominations ie, Anglican, Catholic et al, mean priest.
1 Peter 2:9, 10: "Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.…But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"
Carrie, hello! Forgive me, but 1 Corinthians 4:15 may help expand a different view of your accusation on "call no man 'Father.'" It's easy & I'll admit reasonable to immediately loft out Christ's words on the matter. Greater truth & clarity comes from asking the question of how Paul, someone who had a direct encounter with Christ & His teachings, used the term father to address the believers in Corinth.
Does this man really read new testament, especially the book of acts? Jesus said to Samaritan that the time would comes and then neither towards to Jerusalem nor towards any other place/mountain they worship. Jesus said just before die on the cross that "it is finished" and temple has been Jesus Himself for believers who has Jesus in the hearts. Jesus said God wants people to worship in reality, in the hearts. When Jesus preached He looked at people, who were in need. He turned to them, since He himself is the TEMPLE, ALTAR AND HE SAID HE WILL BE IN US, THOSE EARTHLY ALTERS ARE NO MORE NECESSARY. That's why we read in the book of acts that believers used to get together in THEIR HOMES! The reason Apostles' going to temple was to preach the GOOD NEWS, NOT FOR THE WORSHIPING!
+Tuğba Erdal That's your personal translation... Not the translation of that Ancient Churches which has Apostolic Roots.
Pharisees were also ancient, but it was Moses' Law which is important, not Pharisees' interpretations. When you say Apostolic Roots and Churches you must know it means to me Pharisaic traditions. That's why I pointed word of Jesus, rather than other's opinions.
Jesus also instituted the practice of braking the bread and sharing the Cup in remembrance of himself as is made clear in Luke 22:19-20, where he says "καὶ λαβὼν ἄρτον εὐχαριστήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς λέγων, Τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν διδόμενον τοῦτο ποιεῖτε εἰς τὴν ἐμὴν ἀνάμνησιν. καὶ τὸ ποτήριον ὡσαύτως μετὰ τὸ δειπνῆσαι, λέγων, Τοῦτο τὸ ποτήριον ἡκαινὴ διαθήκη ἐν τῷ αἴματί μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν ἐκχυννόμενον. (literally, and having taken bread having given thanks he broke and gave to them saying, This is the body of me the for you being given; this do in the my memory. and the cup similarly after the they ate, saying, This the cup the new covenant in the blood of me the for you being shed.)
This is what we do in the Liturgy every time the liturgy is served, we do not repeat the action but rather we bring the one sacrifice of the Cross into the present. ἀνάμνησιν means not only memory but recollection and in letergical sense to bring into the present. This works as according to Orthodox belief and tradition the Liturgy dose not happen inside of time, but in the eternal now of God.
Jesus is God incarnate as St James says in his Gospel "ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καί Θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἐρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν. πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρίς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο ούδὲ ἕν. ὅ γέγονεν ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀωθρώπων καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ ού κατέλαβεν." literally "in beginning was the word and the word was with the God and the God was the Word. this one was in beginning with the God all things through him came to be, and without him came to be not one thing. That which came into being in him was life, and the light int he darkness shines, and the darkness did not grasp it."
John makes clear not all that Christ tort was recorded in scripture for all the books in the world could not contain what would be written. Within the Orthodox Church we hold that scripture is part of the Tradition which in its entirety persevered within the Church herself as the living body of Christ. This is not something that is explainable in words it has to be experienced.
By the way we do not only read the bible as Orthodox Christians we worship using it, all our worship is saturated with biblical phrases and references. We hold the Gospels as a Icon of Christ in written form so we treat them as we do all icons with grate reverence, but not worship for we only worship God in Trinity.
If you rely want to know how God wants to be worshiped ask him to tell you and be open to any response not just the one you want. Also come and see the worship of the Orthodox Church with an open mind before you judge, for you may be surprised.
Do you also think Jeremiah was exist literally with God before he was born? Jeremiah 1:5 is about Jeremiah,did you know?
It is plane in the Gospels that souls do not preexist but are created at the moment of conception, reference the mirical of the healing of the Man born blind.
What Jeremiah is referring to is the fact that since God is outside of time he knows the whole life of each of us from the moment of our creation, and that he is intimately involved in that creation. Not that he interferes in our choices as he loves us so much that he leaves us free to make our own decisions and get things wrong, and to suffer the consequences of our choices, he dose however invite us into a relationship with him.
It is possible once has advanced in the spiritual life to the point that they are approaching communion with God that they can then see God acting in the life even before they were aware of it. This is something very difficult to describe or explain and I am speaking from what I have read and heard more than experienced as I am a long way from reaching that point in my own life, though I can Look back and see the acts of God which have helped me to start on the journey.
the only lie here mike sutton is that the orthodox churches have tried their best to warp that meaning into something more suitable for them. just like you are trying to do right now.
no they haven't. We are the only ones that have remained the same since the beginning. YOU heretics, who are not Orthodox have warped everything. But what else can i expect from people who have a regular guy on a stage, hoopting and hollering like a cannibal, and telling people that numerology is equal to the word of God. So please, save your propaganda.
Perry, altars were not built and worshiped at in the NT, that was Israel's OT practices. Christ is the ultimate sacrifice, why would we now need an altar? We don't. Maybe you just made a faux pas. The bread and wine are absolutely not the actual flesh and blood of Christ, and neither did the early apostles or disciples teach such. Jesus took bread (matzo a type of wafer), and He took actual wine, both, the bread & the wine, were SYMBOLIC of His flesh and His blood. How could the disciples eat His flesh and drink His blood when He hadn't yet been to the cross?
You’re saying that God is not the Lord of all of creation? God can do everything.
The orthodox priest's "impressions" do not make something truth.
The fact is that just as Jesus faced the Apostles at the Last Supper, so does a Catholic priest faces the church (community) who will be receiving the Body and Blood of Christ in The Eucharist.
God bless.
Joe Castillo you don’t make sense. How else do you receive communion if you don’t face the people. Besides in today’s world Catholics don’t serve the blood anymore at communion only the body. Another heresy.
Philosophical nonsense is the foundation for the belief that Jesus will return from the east. He didn't say that. So this ad orientem focus is pure rubbish.
That lie of 38 thousand denominations has been debunk already! Give it a rest! It shows your ignorance!
How many are there?
I have lost count, so to it's irrelevant.
My core question growing up in Christianity, was if the Holy Spirit guides, why so many directions?
God responded, human beings involved!
Simple ... They do not follow the bible , second Ohhhh I'm sure Catholics think that they are Christians too ,and have passion for Christ . Jesus calls them hypocrites
Wow... so you know who Jesus calls and what ? wow... Now, since you know... I suppose you know why also. Can you tell me why you think that they are hypocrites... I'm sorry did you STATE that JESUS calls them hypocrites?
Is this English or ...? Read the bible buddy and u'll find out lots of things that Jesus did ;) God bless u
Allie Anderson Allie, Eastern Orthodox Christians most certainly do follow the bible -- just not your western post-reformation modernistic interpretation of it. Instead we follow the ancient Patristic interpretation / exegesis as handed down to us by the Church Fathers. Did you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church *alone* makes the claim of being the *same today as the Church of the first 1000 years* of Christianity? Or that in Her 2000 year history, the Eastern Orthodox Church has *birthed more martyrs than the rest of Christendom combined*?
If you care to post a specific question perhaps someone can respond intelligibly; and maybe even have a friendly discussion. If you state which denomination / sect you belong to that would also be very helpful in attempting to dialogue with you. Before learning about Eastern Orthodoxy and becoming a catechumen (someone learning about Orthodoxy), I was formerly a Protestant for 28+ years. Many of us were formerly Protestant so some of us can actually relate to your concerns if you would have posted something meaningful instead of just name calling. Thanks!
Allie Anderson Fundamentalist Protestant prejudice. Orthodox follow the Bible in fullness of faith. You are all mouth and no brains.
Godly Mathew Very well put, Mathew!
Unfortunately the orthodox speaker knows very little about priesthood
kotarak he is more knowledgeable about this then you and any priest of your church ever will.
Hypocrites
I have to ask; why would you say that about a man who is clearly humble, soft and full of kindness and love, with a passion for Christ?
Rodney Johnstone They are probably like I was, and thinks catholic / orthodox people are hypocrites. I was born into a church ministry family (non denominational, and then Pentecostal) and taught catholic church and its people are that way. I got into a 7 month debate with an Orthodox person and could not prove them wrong so entered the church last summer to see first hand what kind of idolatry, false worship, and all this alleged and was surprised at how true the spirit and worship was. I spent another half year for hours a day in orthodox teachings and books and it is the true church. I am now a catechumen in the orthodox church and will be a member after lent season. My family and friends are in disbelief and think it is wrong but they will not look inside enough to deserve an opinion. If they would look and taste and see what The Lord has made they would never be anywhere else.
Bryan Evers sorry for late reply... I too am catechumen in the Orthodox Church. Though started as an atheist back in the day... then Evangelical, then back slid.
Brian - I am looking into the beliefs of the OC. Can you read my posts above and possibly shed some insight on my scriptures I posted. I realize this is 2 years after you posted, but hopefully you see this.
Too many charlatans in this world. Just one more.
+eddy edi
That's probably true.
btw - how is your mother?
Adam Mangler how dare you call him this? This man is close to god and more close then any prot or catholic ever has been.