ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2015
- There's one Nobel prize that is perhaps the most regrettable one ever awarded. So what happened? Join Michael Aranda for a new episode of SciShow where he uncovers the grim story of the controversial lobotomy and how its inventor walked away with a Nobel prize.
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Sources:
www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/...
www.sciencedirect.com.weblib.l...
ibro.info/wp-content/uploads/2...
www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prize...
lobotomy.umwblogs.org/the-begi...
www.gesnerus.ch/fileadmin/medi...
-Hey doc, I can't sleep, I need help.
-Oh, let me turn off 1/4 of your brain. Forever.
Listen, doc. I came home from work last night, and my kids yelled at me and said they hated me. I'm so confused. I've been coming home after they go to bed every day since they were born. And now this, all of a sudden?
Help me out, doc. What can we do to fix my kids?
We must remove the very part of their brains that make them humans. Their strange behaviour will be gone, but so will all of their emotions.
What do you say? Let's do it?
"whachu want?"
"feel a bit sad"
"say no more fam"
-Hey Doc, the guy I just married has a kid and i want to get rid of the little urchin. any thoughts?
-We can always do an ice pick lobotomy...
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5016775
-hey doc I'm feeling a little queasy, watcha got?
-I gotchu fam, here ima just cut out a huge chunk of your brain, how do ya feel now man?
-(monotone) I am fine.
its like saying.."i can get rid of your depression....along with every other emotion you have"
that what im doing right now. im not depressed anymore and dont care about life. Lol its perfect
Archie Hem
There are many ways to treat Depression ... ask some psychotherapists or psychiatrists.
soil
i was jokeing
"along with your will to live"
Isn't that a major symptom of depression?
I would be mean if I survived a railroad spike driving through my skull too
:'D lmao
Not 100% there is only a certain area where this would happen, some other hit places could have some other effects
@@gefitrop3496 r/woosh
Cause it's painful
Ha, 666th likes
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I know,....no one cares
Just one year after Moniz won his Nobel Prize for the lobotomy, *the Soviet Union outlawed the procedure* on the grounds that it was, and I quote, “contrary to the principles of humanity.” Germany and Japan followed suit not long thereafter.
Swissair171 I would hope that after killing millions of their own citizens they’d learned what humanity was.
@@Tfiend18 I agree I mean Germany only attacked the world twice , clearly leaders in humanity
@@MrBillisk and the US to this day invades countries that do not want / need their military help, *Clearly the overlords of our society* imbeciles...
@@MrBillisk the first world war was started by Austria after the assasination of the Prince and archduke, Franz Ferdinand and his wife, on 28th June 1914 by Bosnian revolutionary not by germany, they only started world war II
@@Tfiend18 Yeah I know right …. but we also have to see what they did right however insignificant it might seem. Nobody forgets the horrors of their heinous crimes by mentioning their few good deeds.
So the lobotomy didn't go out of fashion because of it's side effects, but because medication made it obsolete?
Exactly
+Schwarzer Ritter its*
SPAAAAACE That can't be right. I could write "...because of lobotomy's side effects..." instead. Or is the " 's " wrong too?
+Schwarzer Ritter "It's" is a contraction of "it is." "Its" is possesive.
Schwarzer Ritter The S with an apostrophe is used for possession only for nouns. The one you used is a contraction, like the gentleman above pointed out.
It's a pretty common and confusing mistake.
You can't feel sad
If you can't feel emotions at all
There is an old (70s) russian song that goes something like:
If you don't have a house
It won't burn down
And your wife won't leave you for another
If you don't have a wife
You'll never have a fight with your friend
If you don't have any friends
And if you're not living
You don't have to die
So think for yourself, decide for yourself
To have or not to have
It's a rough translation and I left out some of the lines but... yeah.
Samovar maker taps forehead
Samovar maker a
WHOA
Ankyri name of song
Doctor: don’t worry they shouldn’t feel depression or anxiety
People: are you sure? They seem very shallow and disoriented
Doctor: Oh that’s just a side affect, the important thing is they aren’t suffering
People: how do you think they feel?
Doctor: they don’t
gold
*effect*
Except that the partial lobotomy is stilled used on extremely violent mental patients.
If a patient: with no chance of ever being released, has to be restrained or drugged into a stupor 24 / 7, and is a "ward of the state" then a partial lobotomy is considered.
But these mental patients are usually non-verbal, have injured staff repeatedly, and have to be isolated in their own private cell.
It is hard for the general public to understand what happens in a Mental Hospital, as they care for people that behave like an angry chimpanzee in a zoo...
They're Democrats. That's all the reason for this you need.
Gold
In San Diego, in the early 70's, hospitals were still doing lobotomys. I was in one hospital, yes, on the nut ward, and a dr tried to get me to agree to have one. I refused.
Lucky
Are you sure it wasn't an anterior cingulotomy the doctor proposed? These are far more practical, effective, and still in practice today.
@@ryanm7263 Nah it's just more quackery. Psychiatrists don't care as long as they make money
Had one not willing and not buy a Dr
@@leob4403 Quack Hack Pack...QHP
the person who invented knocking probably got a no-bell prize.
Stop that
+Christopher Gudgeon lol :-)
+Christopher Gudgeon *Points at the door* OUT!
+Christopher Gudgeon Ba Dum Tss
+Christopher Gudgeon You should be ashamed...
A lobotomy sounds like trying to fix a PC's motherboard by smashing it with a hammer.
No, no no, we just remove 1/4 of it
* hey as long as it works *
No, it's like deleting Win32
I think it's mostly like smashing the harddrive or solid state drive, with a hammer.
IAN 4000 excuse you, medical etymology. -otomy means the surgival incision lob- means lobe. Lobe-o-incision
So basically the conscious part of her is still in there, it just doesn't have access to the rest of the brain or any ability to control the body? Lovely.
Yes. It still works, but without any 'input' nor 'output' ways to the brain it just kinda sits there and does not very much at all.
well when you say it like that, that sounds horrifying!
@@108wee it becomes a separate entity and goes insane and constantly wants to die.
@@drakep.5857 Nice
watch the movie "sucker punch", all the girls are lobotomized. u will get a fully understandable view, not only into lobotomy, also into heavy traumata and how it is. very cool fantasy-action movie inside a psychiatry! ;)
I was diagnosed with schizophrenia when i was 16 and one of the first questions my psychiatrist asked is if i was willing to sign off on electro shock therapy... I was not
same
except it was my parents that asked, of course I refused so we agreed I'd take therapy
I was diagnosed with bpd
There's been significant strides made in electroshock therapy. It's no longer "shock to disuade bad thoughts," but targeted electric signals meant to restart parts of the brain. It's no longer painful and it can be extremely helpful for people with severe depression or anxiety.
I mean, it certainly shouldn't be first choice, but if nothing else is helping.....
Also, there's quite a bit of evidence that TMS can relieve people of autism symptoms, too.
Hi, how are you today?
@@cooley987 hi :)
a green, green screen ?
XD!
It could be a bluescreen
How meta
Bris Vegas behind a green water mark
That's behind a green picture
how do fix brain? Poke hole in brain.
lemons limes how to fix a balloon from floating away? Stick a needle in it
James Food how to fix school?
Defund them.
Thank you science.
I guess they figured It was the human equivalent of smacking an appliance to get it to work
PI know it sounds terrible, but this was actually a very old technique, there's proof that trepanation already existed in ancient times and people kept on living for a long time. Even today we use severing the brain as a mean to reduce problems, for example cutting the Corpus callosum to stop severe epileptic episodes on people, the only difference is we have the technology and knowledge to know where to cut and why, but probably in 40 years from now this is going to sound awful and medieval
-Look, she isn't depressed anymore!
-She can't express emotions
-BUT IT'S CURED!
-Bro wdf???
Pretty much the same thing that SSRIs do these days. Nothing has gotten better.
that don't sovled problem for her.. just a beginning for mad woman..
@@rowlandbuck2703 i think your thinking of antipsychotics? Which yeah it can seem that way.
Wait... so if all it did was prevent patients from DISPLAYING the symptoms, that implies that on top of being lobotomized, patients STILL suffered through their mental ailments and had no way of expressing it.
That’s pretty much what those relatives consenting to the procedure wanted...
sadly that's how neurodiverse people are still frequently treated to this day (e.g., autism and ABA) 😔
oh my god hate this even more
No, symptoms are actually cured by permanently blocking them, except other necessary functions are blocked just as well, cutting off a whole part of what makes a person human. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Makes you wonder what procedures we're doing now that may seem barbaric in the future.
Buffalosaurus Rex hernia checks
Electroshock therapy
My bet goes to Chemotherapy and radiotherapy
In America? Circumcision
Circumcision, chemotherapy, radiotherapy and many surgeries.
I would be mean if a railroad spike went through my head too
dont you hate when that happens?
Venom yeah mate! Every time.
Hahaha. Made me crack. 😂😂
@@venomousicon8855 it's pretty annoying but only sometimes does it hurt usually it's just a cool feeling down my spine
Idk, i kinda like it. Gives a push on my brain when i yawn
I shudder at the idea of a veteran coming home with "shellshock" from WWII and getting lobotomized. Jesus.
what about getting prescribed a lifelong medication that has similar sideeffects? welcome in the present.
They believed they were helpful. Doctors used to use leeches.
@@claudiakoning Yeah, except not. Because you can stop taking a medication. Or change the dose. Or try a different med. Or try out a different med combination. There's far better quality and wide-ranging research on meds.
Being "zombified" by medication is only preferable when the disease symptoms land the person in a far, far worse state of mind. Most people don't get that kind of of side effect, don't have severe enough conditions to warrant taking the kinds of meds that could do that, and medication options are constantly improving to boot. Let alone the wide variety of therapy options, and then diet and lifestyle on top of that.
In psychiatric wards "medical lobotomy" is common practice. They pump patients full with stuff that turns them into zombies, and the patients cant do nothing about it...
@@claudiakoning Yeah but at the very least, medication's effects can be reversed, snipping off a part of the brain is irreversible so they are nowhere near being the same.
As a general rule, don’t take something out without first knowing why it’s there in the first place.
... multitudes of QHP HAVE to remove multitudes of healthy lobes, so the chemists can specially design pharmaceutical to attack same areas,... psych 'medication' is PillZ On WheelZ icepick in a bottle, self administered, cuz they say " You NEED'... it's how they pay for their houses.
@@shielamariehankinson3824 I'm sorry, can you explain that in normal English? Also, what's QHP?
@@allisond.46 ... experimenting on people who have no one to protect them is a dream come true for the psychiatrist. each time a pick is inserted thru the eye socket... how deep, the angle, any variation would alter the experiment. thousands of minds would have to be scrambled for results. If no one records, has to be done on yet another victim. a specific area creates a certain result. Chemists step in and attempt to reproduce said effects with pillZ. that level of test then becomes a new standard, a RIGOROUS GUIDE LINE for the next generation of QHP..the Quack Hack Pack...ie... Mental Health Professionals.... their drugs must be consumed in massive quantities for isolation of regions that match, or come close enough, to the results of the ice pick lobotomy. Doesn't anyone see issues with a freak with an ice pick ? when being administered psych meds the victim becomes a Human Drug Trial. Hence, "Do Not Stop Taking This Medication Without The ADVICE of ..the good doctor, who entered you into the drug Trial they are attempting to turn into a cash flow. Even before the psych poisons reach John and Jane Q,. countless numbers of animals have already been put to death. The medical research laboratories acquire the animals from many sources, mainly, the Asiatic regions...they have the monkeys as a natural resource. As it stands, if QHP want to kill a thousand monkeys, they call black market... ,. they have the monkeys, it under their control. 10 monkeys, if they see actual need for the studies. $500.00 per monkey, if it is necessary to kill something. Back later, if you still feel the need to test me.
@@allisond.46 ...Quack Hack Pack..Harry Harlow, who was given an entire building to torture animals. Absolutely horrific that no one has attempted to regulate these atrocities against our Planet. Humanity is suffering as a whole because of so many people not being able, willing, or capable of stopping it. Mustard gas..Thalimide. Neurontin. Ritalin. Seroquel. can you add any destructive 'medications' to the short list ? Zyclon Cymbalta paraquat agent orange.....
@@shielamariehankinson3824 careful, if you drop too many truth bombs then Big Pharma and the lizard people who run the illuminati might send the CIA to abduct you for experimentation. Wouldn't want that, would you?
I'm so glad I live in the 21st century. It's by far the best century yet.
***** as someone on ssri's and straterra. Medicine has helped me cope with severe depression and crippling adhd. It's really gross when people you compare an inhumane irreversible procedure with drugs that one can stop at any times. In fact i prefer my personality now to how i was before. I used to be a bitter cynical asshole intent on making everyone else feel stupid.
***** That's not really related to his comment. You were demonizing medication in general, which isn't terribly constructive.
Modern medicine is in general fucking amazing, even if the broader culture sometimes leads it astray with problems like over-prescription.
they are +dsndicmsa
+Locke Silvrel Few more years?
It's an exciting century for discoverys, inventions, and amazing entertaiment.
That's what they did to Rosemary Kennedy (John F. Kennedy's sister) and the result was devastating.
bobskie321 I heard they did that to JFK too...with a bullet
Chuck Bradley funny...
They did her dirty and the sad thing is that she lived longer than the other Kennedys as she died when she was in her 80s-90s, waiting for her brothers to visit her.
What happened?
Charles Bradley too soon, too soon...
For insomnia? "I'm having trouble sleeping" "well obviously we need to shove an ice pick into your brain"
lmao look at this ancap hahaha im pointing and laughing at you
@@gwen6622 yeah that guy's an idiot
@@chumdog6060 no please i don't want you to tell me about the age of consent laws
@@gwen6622 society should definitely keep some sort of standered of a 43 y/o get with a 3 y/o there would be some sort of legal recourse for the parents
Glad we have Ambien now
Imagine getting a Nobel prize award for removing someone's soul.
A lobotomy process sounds like if you were trying to play the "Operation skill/board game",but instead of being delicate with tweezers,you are just hitting the board with a sledge hammer until you see results.
The surgical incision of lobe. Lob-otomy
I mean the sensor would break so you would technically win
@@alexwang982 exactly
The horrific part of all this is that I don't think the "turned off" part of their brain actually dies, it just can't connect to the rest of the brain and the body anymore. Forever alone.
Many are born with half the brain, but when you are a baby, the brain is flexible and developing and it has years to compensate and adapt to daily requirements. When lobotomy is performed onan adut, the brain never regenerates or heals.
D: nooooooooo....wait.......why is this even sad?
Its like get out the movie
Nah, I realize this presenter didn't go into the gory details, but the lobotomy procedure completely destroys that part of the brain.
If you look at scans of patients who underwent a lobotomy, they show huge vacant spaces that have filled with cerebral spinal fluid (where their frontal lobe/cerebral cortex used to be).
It's pretty sad. They basically just drilled into their patients' skulls and rooted around until they felt they had rid the patient of all the "faulty" brain matter. It's completely barbaric.
+Steven Mactavish i agree to what you say and nah, it isn't completely unrelated.
+gen15mello, not sure if prefrontal leukotomy or even the 'ice-pick lobotomy' (as practised by Freeman) made the whole orbitofrontal cortex eventually disintegrate to fluid or gooey mess.
been watching certain gore videos, one of which was the proud video of Freeman doing this very 'surgery' (looked more like a cobbler mending shoes) and proudly mentions George Washington University!
do not know if it is okay to post the link/s but that video is very much on the internet still!
" I am going to give that doctor a piece of my mind!"
Doctor overhears and says "If you only knew the half of it!"
My grandmother fell and hit her head and has never been the same. She had bleeding on her brain and once healed, we saw an immediate difference where she became agitated, spiteful, and can be rather mean. She also has a tendency to have false memories or not remember certain things. And her doctor has equated her to having some form of Oppositional Defiant Disorder. If you say it’s hot in the house she’ll claim she’s freezing. If you claim you’re cold she’ll immediately claim it’s hot. It’s crazy.
This is simply chilling. I have a difficult time believing this was ever standard practice. It sounds like something out of an episode of doctor who.
Yes it reminds me of how they would convert people into cybermen.
Nadine R perhaps this was an inspiration for the cybermen?
Mr.MinecraftTheGreat I wouldn't be surprised. Both involve removing your emotions and removing what makes us human.
If you really want to ruin your day/night (whatever time-zone you're in), read the story of Rosemary Kennedy... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
***** and how do you think they get the chip into a brain?
Lobotomy is my nightmare.
I would honestly rather die than let someone turn me into a husk.
+AValveFanboy WE SHOULD ALL GET BRAINSLUGS
+AValveFanboy
Have you seen "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" ?!?
Cant Have Brain Problem
If part of Brain Gone
-Moniz
😂
"My God, man - drilling holes in his head's not the answer".
- Leonard "Bones" McCoy
This just shows that there's no such thing as a soul, it's all the brain.
The original common usage was Aristotle's, I believe, and he meant, simply, the cumulative actions of the body, so, 'what one does.' Then the 'everlasting soul' was coined 'ethereal spirit' was too complicated and ghoulish for vernacular, and now we're all the way back around.
Almost no one would say that Aristotle was *right* about everything, he had some ideas that seem very strange today, but that people are thinking about things in general in the same ways, with observations and deductions rather than by wrapping dogma around every happenstance, is very encouraging.
No shit its 2015 you should know that
Gareth Field I was shitting on the religious idea of a soul, as in a spirit that makes you human
Yeah, it's pretty damn shocking that a person would change once they lose part of a major organ.
Carl Salmon soul does not equal religion you ignorant fuck lol
"After Fulton removed their entire frontal cortex they became more docile, relaxed, calm "
Yeah like no fucking shit they're kinda half dead
Like, how do you not put that together????
History is fucking mind boggling
*****
uhm...
*****
:0
+Jhon Scarzo Not really, they often ended as a walking dead people, because it kills all emotions, everything... Talking about lobotomized people
Dan Kelly The effect wouldnt so much be on knoledge (At least with the amount they removed in laboratories) you pretty much become monotone.
Dan Kelly yeah the entire thing you will
The USSR banned Lobotomy as the first state ever.
After having conducted 400 “operations” USSR decided it’s not worth it. A resumed their regular practices...
The one thing they did right
@@nickieshadowfaxbrooklyn5192
Death, much cheaper too.
A bullet into the frontal lobe was probably a better idea to them
@@bruh.j4mes get help idiot
Fun fact: JFK's older sister was lobotomized in her early 20s. It left her physically unable to take care of herself and she was institutionalized for the rest of her life.
I wouldn't call that a fun fact.
Ayyy! I was gonna mention this. Further fun fact: this was ordered by her father, unbeknownst to her mother, and was executed by essentially having the girl kidnapped. For...Being willful. Shortly before JFK's run for president actually, so while her siblings and I believe mother did continue to visit her occasionally, all was quietly swept under the rug... When you hear about this, that the procedure was performed on such vulnerable ppl, and psychiatry's general treatment of POC and vulnerable ppl... You understand the stigma of mental illness better, tho I wish it weren't a thing ppl were scared of.
Rosemary Kennedy
Yknow, I was sitting on the pot thinking, I am so lucky to be born in an age where cancer is remotely survivable. I am so lucky to be born in a time where I wouldn't be ostracized for not acting like everyone else. I am so damn lucky to have been born in a time where lobotomy doesn't exist.
You don't know. Maybe 50 years from now people would think that treating cancer with chemotherapy was dangerous and archaic. While it true we lived in a more advanced age, our current methods would become obsolete and ineffective.
+Jose Rosas Of course. All of today's medicine will be outdated in 50 years (if we survive the climate change). But it's not the same. Chemotherapy has been proven to give the best fighting chance to cancer patients, and is only administered with consent and full understanding of the risks for patients.
We don't use leeches any more, but it is not morally wrong that doctors used to use them. They did the best they could with what they had. Not so with lobotomy.
Yoona Gaebong Well maybe in 50 years they might discover that chemotherapy also gives cancer (even though we never knew). Same with lobotomy, there were good side effects and possible bad side effects. Even though quite a lot of people (mentally disabled) did not agree to it, quite a good chunk of decided to go with it even though they knew that lobotomy was not fully known.
best time to live were the stone ages. and you can not heal every kind of cancer, and maybe it will never change unless the pharma industrie can make more money...
Jermund Jansberg point was that these days, medicine is way, way better than what was available in the 50s. But I see what your saying. Though I still would like an 80% survival rate better. EDIT I must add: if there are treatments worse than lobotomy, then that kinda proves my point.
Am I the only one who actually enjoys Michael being a host? Seems like everyone keeps bashing him...
***** Hopefully not, because the cure would be censorship.
Nope, I think he is the best on the show.
Nope, he's cool.
I think people just like Hank more often, he's a close second I suppose.
I like Michael as a host.
I recently suffered a burnout caused by teacher-induced anxiety, and it was like my frontal cortex turned off for a few days, and let me tell you, suddenly being rendered unable to learn and unable to experience emotions more complex than fear is beyond distressing. I dread to think how horrifying it would be to experience this for the rest of my life like the lobotomy patients.
Me: I think I have a headache
Doctor: We have the solution just for that
Doctor *shows me a guillotine
a113sabertooth you won’t have a head but neither will you have a headache :D
That is indeed the logic
Bro I commented this 2 years ago, how did I find my way back to this comment? 😑
Can't have that ache without a head
Fun fact: that is actually quite similar to a medieval Crusader medicine.
And it was the only scientific Nobel Prize we ever recieved!
Yay Portugal!
By the way the name is pronounced Eges Mounis
Leonardo Viegas stfu leonardo...
fuck off
*+Leonardo Viegas*
It leads the world in its approach to drug use, however. That is something that other nations should be taking note of.
JP mas q importa voces tem o melhor idioma da europa
I was watching this episode in my office while eating popeye's chicken, while all of a sudden my wife walks behind me to see what i was watching and asked: "what are you watching, good-looking nerd talk?"
Michael you are a good looking nerd, my friend.
He is pretty damned hot.
***** If only he wouldn't have those stupid disks in his ear. At least that's what it looks like from the front.
Unfortunately i don't find skunks attractive.
Will Thomas What's wrong with that?
Will Thomas
You got a problem with Spongebob? I SAID, YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH SPONGEBOB? >:|
(The yelling is a joke, but really, what's wrong with Spongebob?)
"Sometimes, my genius is... It's almost frightening."
“I’d rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.”
I see it everywhere. What does it mean?
@@carljohnson6183 not sure who was the doc but one of the Assistant he had said that after his first surgery. but he said that with a body not bottle
@@True_water so that means he would rather make surgery on whole body than lobotomy?
@@carljohnson6183 yes. even the soviet calld it barbaric.
taking out part of somone brain is so fked up.
A statement without any empirical evidences is called a hypothesis, not a theory.
Well, you can put it that way, but I'd say that's a bit oversimplified. There is not always a clear hierarchy that goes from hypotheses to theories.
That's the common understanding of what hypothesis is, but I believe it's wrong, I'm pretty sure a statement without any empirical evidence is an speculation...
In order to form a hypothesis you need empirical evidence that justify it, later you can use further experiments to try and falsify it...eventually it becomes a theory, but a hypothesis NEED empirical evidence to be made
According to my knowledge:
A hypothesis is an assumption formulated as a logical statement, the validity of which is assumed to be given, but hasn't yet been proven/verified.
A hypothesis needs to have some predictive capabilities, in order for us to verify/falsify it based on its predictions.
A theory is a group of logical statements that relate to each other and atleast partially are empirically proven.
(That would be the positivist scientific approach. The critical-rational approaches argue, that theory, speculation and hypothesis all have the same value to them, as theoretical statements fundamentally aren't verifiable, but only falsifiable.)
Theory: "a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained." (from online OED)
A theory is essentially an explanation. There may or may not be empirical evidence for it.
Turing Machine where in that definition does it say anything about empirical evidence?
Does nobody have any record of what a labotomized person *says* it feels like? Could they even tell?
Wasn't Jackie Kennedy labotomized ?
Rosemary Kennedy was lobotomized
They didn't say much from what I've read. They responded to things. Followed instinct and ate. But they weren't really all there, because they weren't. I'd rather be dead.
JFK was definitely lobotomized. He didn't survive the surgery, though.
@@davidhollenshead4892 His name is Howard Dully.
You guys need to hire a Bob, so he can say "Hi, I'm Sci Show Bob"
So basically, Moniz is the perfect example of "Good intentions, terrible execution"
The hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around is that this procedure was done all the way up to 1952 which blows my mind. I think I read once that there was even a mobile lobotomy vehicle that would drive around and people could have the procedure done in their own homes and even to their own unruly children.
K Black sad, but true. 😔 There's a great dramatization about this subject on Amazon called Dark Matters. Very interesting.
One flew over the cuckoo's nest, read it, great book
It was also used to make women docile when they showed undesirable traits like ambition and creativity.
Wow, is that service still available?! Oh yeah, 1952...
Asa Phillips also a good movie.
I am currently recovering from severe clinical depression after many years of struggle, and I just realised that instead of getting help, I would have been lobotomised if I had been born just a hundred years earlier. Odd thought. Thank goodness for medicine and therapy.
Medicines aren't much better than lobotomy, it's basically chemical lobotomy, and they are hell to get off because they destabilize the brain
@@leob4403 I almost sprained my eyes from rolling them so hard.
No, this depends on many different factors including what conditions you have, what medication you take for them, and what their effect is on you. Different people have different genes and brain chemistry and issues.
I'm on venlafaxine, which some people can react badly to and they feel like an emotional zombie, but all they have to do is to step off it gradually and try another medicine that actual suits their brain chemistry because this medication ain't it.
While in me, it makes me less tired, less apathic, more vivacious, and so much easier to maintain any feelings of happiness.
I easily can quit it whenever I want as long as I take two weeks to gradually step off (I have done it cold turkey once, and it was just too annoying and I spent two or three days being stuck with a annoying constant feeling like I had static electricity shocks in my brain).
Going off it returns me to the state I was in before I first started taking it. This while some medications make permanent changes in your body, but many don't.
Sometimes the exact same medication can make permanent changes in you and not in others.
Ever had a gin & tonic? Tonic water (not even high doses like in old fashioned malaria medication) can give some people really bad reactions, and even give them tinnitus. While others have no effect from the low amount of quinine in tonic water, and some people like me even can have it mildly help an upset stomach.
If you have had bad experiences with a callous doctor not trying to help you find the correct medication for you, then I am sorry. A lot of things in life can give you permanent issues, but you cannot wholesale disregard medicine for psychiatric issues without being factually wrong.
EDIT: I have been taking it for over a decade and a half, which is why I have gone off it repeatedly. I have taken half a year or year long breaks a few times in order to asses whether I still need it.
Turns out my issue might be a permanent one as I have ADHD and was recently diagnosed as an adult and I will be trying out ADHD medication and see if they work better for me than venlafaxine.
Venlafaxine, which I am ludicrously fortunate to not have any side effects from aside from very slight anorgasmia. Still possible, it just ups the difficulty a little, which thanks to my starting point isn't difficult.
I apologize if I am too harsh (and too rambly), but this hits a sore nerve as my parents found it shameful to have me be on medication and have tried to on many occasions emotionally bully me to quit that which lets me feel happy for more than too brief and shallow fleeting moments and let's me actually live a fuller life instead of the shadow of one.
You'd be cranky too if you needed a chemical wheelchair to get around and others tried to bully you to stop using it.
@@Call-me-Al I've been on a large number of pharmaceutical drugs, and if there's anything I realized in life it's that drugs and other addictions are not a constructive way of dealing with your mental and physical problems.
@@leob4403 you have been severely unlucky and haven't actually benefitted from being on medications. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are in your situation.
@@leob4403 I should add, I don't know what medications you were on but not all of them actually are addictive, unlike e.g. opiods.
The Noble Prize you get when you do surgery on a grape
Nobel
Nobel
Nobel
Nobel 🤭
Nobel
worst noble prize given to Aung San Syu Ki for peace (ironically she is directly responsible for genoncide in her own country - Burma( also called Myanmar).
You are right
Rohingya?
Stale Memes yes the rohingya genocide
I heard about this
U people need to read more than just the tabloid headlines...
That experiment is fucking awful
Well..... if we didn't do it then we wouldn't be here right now. So yeah it might have been awful but as long as we get data from it all good.
Cat and Tus "All good"? No. Terrible. Yes, good that we got some data from it, but no, not "all good." Not at all.
You should volunteer for having new developed drugs tested on you.
I said ŚTFU me?
Scix You know..I can't say that it was morally the right thing to do. but on the other hand...people didn't suffer. Relatives did, but the patients themselves didn't. Because they wouldn't feel sadness, they wouldn't feel shitty. They just wouldn't feel good or bad, but they also wouldn't feel like that feeling was a bad feeling, because they couldn't feel the feeling...you feel me?
Let us not forget the sister of Kennedy who had a minor mental impairment (she could read and right, but had a limited vocabulary) and, after receiving a lobotomy, never spoke again.
These surgeries do more harm than good. Its like taking medicine with side effects that are worse than whatever you're trying to cure in the first place.
Like curing dandruff with decapitation
AtOutoftheBlue write
Every time i hear about lobotomies my heart sinks and i feel a pit in my stomach. It is horrifying.
Remember kids.... few decades ago this was considered "settled science."
I feel bad for him, it didn't seem like he did it out of malice. If the way you're describing him is true it did seem like he generally just wanted to help sick people, and thought he had.
+Bulwark of the Weak Ever hear about Thomas Midgley, Jr? His life is almost laughably unfortunate. He helped develop leaded gasoline and CFCs. Because of him millions were exposed to toxic lead levels and we got a hole in the ozone layer. He then gets polio and builds a contraption to hoist him up in bed...which ends up strangling him at 55.
Guillermo Flores Yeah I heard of him, it would be horrible to make an invention that you thought had changed people's lives for the better only to have someone tell you later that you had poisoned hundreds of people.
+Bulwark of the Weak technically poisoned lots more than that. Poisoning being defined as elevated levels of toxins. Not fatal poisoning. Don't know how many fatal poisonings he caused.
I don't think he did it out of malice, either. I think he was trying to help with what little was known about the brain back then. But, I can understand why people would dislike him for inventing the lobotomy. Past Present John F. Kennedy forced his daughter with severe ADHD to undergo a lobotomy to calm her down. It completely tore her life apart because it greatly reduced her intelligence to that of a 5 year old, resulting in her becoming completely dependent on others, and I can't imagine her being calm at that mental capacity.
+Bulwark of the Weak Would your name be a reference to Risk of Rain?
I used to work with someone who had a lobotomy to treat her seizures. It worked, but it destroyed her ability to differentiate fantasy and reality and turned her into a psychotic mess that could never have a real job and would accuse her staff of all kinds of crazy stuff.
Interesting and informative video. One Joseph Kennedy's daughters was believed to have had an unsuccessful lobotomy and spent her entire adult life in a mental institution. She was given the lobotomy because she was rebellious as a teenager. One of the developers of the lobotomy technique was later killed by a patient that he performed the surgery on. There were cases where lobotomies were performed in a doctor's office with an ice pick and at least one case where a lobotomist performed a lobotomy on a street when he encountered one of his psychiatric patients that was hysterical and being restrained by the police. The lobotomist identified himself to the police and performed a lobotomy on the spot with an ice pick. Insane, but true.
The chilling story of her lobotomy includes her being awake for the procedure and instructed to sing children’s bible songs. She eventually stopped singing and became unresponsive during the procedure. She was hidden away as an invalid. Her siblings later reunited with her
Please stop putting so many spaces after the periods. Just please don’t; use the enter key instead.
Guy who invented the lobotomy:
"I get *no* respect! No respect at all!"
Good
"I have half a mind..."
Lucy Pollock soooooo ur blonde?
I'm jk
You monster. Too soon.
Bojack reference
Bojack horseman?
Time’s arrow marches foreword
Rise and shine, Dr. Freeman... rise and shine.
I up-voted you because I get that reference.
Now wait for Half-Life 3. Wait and wait and wait...
Not that i wish to imply you have been sleeping on the job
I actually heard on some website HL3 was confirmed Febuary 3, 2015. Too bad it wasn't.
♠ OldBoy ♠ No one get's Half-life references.
"Hey doctor , im too organised.Help me"
"Oh let me stir your brain with two spikes"
"You may find that your brain is no longer symmetrical once I'm finished"
fascinating subject. Thank you for all the information shared in the video!
patients have fears and depression? erase their emotion so they don't know a thing about joy
amelia nightwolf or fear or depression?
They didn't know better but yeah, it was brutal. Makes us wonder which of our 'modern' ways would be considered brutal in the future.
People in these comments are talking about how barbaric the procedure was and wonder aloud how such a thing could have caught on. It's a bit long, but let me share with you my own personal experience that I think helps me understand how such treatment comes about.
I was in a mental hospital once for depression. They suggested electro-shock therapy. Really tried to sell me on it, claimed there were no side effects, it's incredibly effective, etc. I'm a naturally skeptical person, so I held it off until I could go out on my own and get my own information on the subject. It's clear that there's a big divide between what practitioners claim about the procedure and the reality. 75% of people who got ECT claim they never gave "informed consent," most suffer long-term deficits, appear to not just lose abilities, but the ability to recognize they've lost that ability, and a great deal of people who get ECT get it in situations that the US surgeon general says it is not a good fit for: long-term depression, personality disorders or multiple sessions (ECT is only approved to be used once or twice EVER). The advocates of the procedure argue (correctly) that in extreme cases it may be necessary. However, even they say they think ECT works by creating controlled brain damage if they don't just go "oh, well know one knows why it works, it just does!". This, they believe, allows the brain to "rewire" itself into a less depressed state. Critics argue that it causes brain damage in the frontal lobes which inhibits the persons ability to understand or communicate the damage that has been done to their cognitive abilities. Side effects of the procedure include reduction in cognitive ability (almost always), reduction in the ability to remember new events (extremely common), permanent memory loss (almost always to a certain extent, though it's less common to lose years or decades of declarative memroy), lethargy (not usually permanent), confusion (usually not permanent), and coma (extraordinarily rare these days). Hemmingway killed himself not because he was depressed, but because he was prescribed ECT for depression and couldn't live with the debilitating mental effects of it.
This is what constitutes "no side effects" that "can even be used when you're pregnant." This is also why very few people believe they were not given informed consent. When you are put in a mental hospital, it is a very unusual experience and there is virtually no information getting to you. The only information you have comes from the person in charge of your case. If you ask your family to look into the procedure (if you are lucky enough to have a family that cares and is accessible during visiting hours), a superficial look online might seem to indicate it's a perfectly acceptable treatment and if you're in a mental hospital they're probably desperate (and also not the ones who will get ECT). They'll set you up with a "second opinion" which is often a person who actively performs the procedure, but does not necessarily see psychiatric patients. In these kinds of situations, extreme practices can proliferate.
Well said. Thanks for taking the time to share your story and experience. Did you ever end up getting ECT?
I were in a mental institution and I can relate that it is barbarian. It was the most traumatic experience ever.
My blood pressure is skyrocketing watching this, I dont think I can handle the reality of this jesus christ, i feel like I'm going to pass out
Lol what a pansy
@@Rocky-vj5uv Wow, pansy, where did you learn that one, kindergarden?
A good chunk of the effects of lobotomy sounds like what happened to me after months of a very intense depressive episode. I have dysthymia, so mild to severe depressive episodes will be always part of my life, but while dread and sadness parts of depression are bad, not feeling anything is way WAY worse to go through.
The lobotomy is such a lazy and tragic period in history, so many people in asylums and its easier to get the people as out of the way as possible.
What about Obama's peace prize ? Awarding a warmonger for warmongering, seems to be most regrettable award.
Let's focus on things everyone can agree unanimously are bad. Like cutting parts of people's brains out.
Nobel peace prize is a joke by itself.
Nobel Peace Prize is not the same as the Nobel Prize.
To say Obama is a warmonger is doing a disservice to all the millions who have died from real warmongers, Kissinger is one such example. Although yes, the Nobel Peace Prize is a joke, as they seem to be prepared to ignore the history of the people they are congratulating.
Lets make this scientific. How many wars/battles did Obama start? How many wars/battles did Bush Junior start? How many wars/battles did Clinton start? How many wars/battles did Bush senior start?
Thank u for the subtitles!
I knew lobotomies were bad, especially knowing what happened to Rosemary Kennedy but I felt my heart crack when I heard the bit about the loss of creativity.
Without my creativity, I wouldn't have typed this comment.
Had I had been born in that time period, I would have preferred death because to live an existence without any creativity to give it meaning or purpose would be worse, mental illness be damned.
Loss of creativity, additionally, loss of 30 - 40 IQ points (or reduction to a vegitative state), motor function, ... Furthermore, they literally ram an ice pick into your frontal lobe and then stir it around without knowing the effect it would have ... And people were forced to endure this fate worse than death ...
Iron Fortitude that actually depends, later lobotomies were more refined and got more precise. Of course, they never were perfected, but lobotomies did get to the point where the patient wouldn’t lose all of their personality, they would just lose a lot of it and be completely different people sometimes... it isn’t good, but it could of been worse
@@ironfortitude9817 Considering the current crisis, I think the side effects of this procedure is better than alternative of living with this pandemic.
@@Tokuijin Oh please you big gigantic baby. Living with the lobotomy effects is much more devastating to the individual-it is a total loss of personality and ZERO medical benefit. Do No Harm exists for a reason and this procedure completely goes against it. The pandemic would be over if people just stayed inside and distanced and the government realized they need to pay people for time off or for staying home from a non essential business. Also if the government would just fine people who break mask mandates things would be better... look at seatbelts or wearing clothes in public, people do that!
@@asmrtpop2676 , actually, for some their symptoms did improve in some way or another, which leaves one to wonder if they really had brain tumors or cysts in that part of their brains.
As of currently though, after suffering the way I've suffered in these lockdowns (not pandemic--mind you), I wish I were lobotomized as I wouldn't feel my own misery, though, I'm just as content of the hopeful optimistic sickeningly saccharine ones get lobotomized.
He forgot to mention that Walter Freeman, the man who did almost all of the lobotomies in the U.S, after the practice was deemed inhumane and the doctor was shunned from the world psychology - he moved to California. This is where he offered his services to husbands who felt like their wives were too feisty, or housewives who felt depressed, or unsatisfied in their lives, or parents who felt like their child was too wild. It's rumoured he preformed several thousand lobotomies in California, on women and children who may not have even had mental disorders. The lobotomy's history is a dark chapter in psychology's history, but one that we can't forget.
I can't help but stare @ his ear lobe, it wiggles while he talks.
I can't unsee that now thanks
Job Koppenol
lol sorry bro
@T3h N3wB Same bro
This is worse then the Ethan eyebrow wiggle.
cannot unsee now
Thank you very much!!! Very juicy presentation by all means!!!
And George Papanikolaou (test pap inventor) was nominated a lot of times for the Nobel Prize and never eventually got it
"But which part do we take out to stop psychosis?"
"Ehhh, I don't know. Just take it all out."
On three pages of this comment section "Obama" has been mentioned twenty five times. Good job.
Damn. He didn't do shit in relation to the video. Not a thing related to Obama at all.
True enough, but considering the title of this video, a number of people seemed to think of obamas award, and rightly so.
...ok...?
obama got a PEACE PRIZE, but america was at war for the entire 8 YEARS he was POTUS. When he left office they were dropping bombs on SEVEN countries. Hes a fucking POS
Henry Ettoit I presume POS stands for President Of Statesland?
Imagine being awarded the nobel prize for learning how to pierce one's brain
Very interesting. Happy to have watched your video.
The award of the "most regrettable Nobel prize" now belongs Aung San Suu Kyi.
As some one with autism I was told early on about this "cure all" and it always disgusted me and terrified me that someone high up might decide that the old way was the best way, it even scares me today. The thought that I could lose everything that makes me me is terrifying, to lose my thoughts and emotions, the equivalent of my soul to "cure" my condition to make it easier for society... I would rather die.
Some people don't understand that being alive isn't always a good thing until they experience it for themselves...
There's nothing to cure. Some people with severe autism, actually most, have brains that can detect minute patterns that the "normal" brain can't. Some grow up to be mathmeticians who make amazing and extraordinary break through in math and science
Thank you for this video. The medication that a loved one is currently taking I recently heard referred to as akin to a chemical labotomy. Not fully understanding what that meant, research ensued. This was helpful.
Then the Byte of '87 happened. Yeah, uh, It's really incredible that the human body can live without the frontal lobe, huh?
-Phone Guy
Actually how I got into neuroscience
The bite of 83* check your lore facts 👌
Bite of 83 didn’t specify what part of the brain was affected when the kid got bit. The Bite of 87 was different, the animatronic wasn’t specified but that was the bite that damaged someone’s frontal lobe.
@@d3ddll138 There were multiple bites. Scott/Phone Guy said the Bite of *'87* not '83. Maybe you should check your lore facts 🙃
@@d3ddll138 That's exactly what I'm saying. I said there's multiple bites. The crying child in '83 didn't survive for long so that's another reason why he can't be the '87 victim.
In the phone call the '87 bite victim lived without their frontal lobe that Gavin GG was referencing, _not_ the '83 bite. You're correcting them saying Phone Guy was actually talking about '83 and that's just not true.
@@d3ddll138 Lol it's all good
I can't imagine this ever being widespread. It makes my skin crawl. I have vivid memories of being called in to be a personal helper when I was in 6th grade. An 8 year old girl wanted to dance ballet, but had almost no fine motor skills or significant control over the right side of her body. She could pick her right foot maybe a couple inches off the ground. Her partial lobotomy was thanks to a huge malignant tumor which was threatening her life. I get chills think about this being used as anything but a late resort to save a life. Humans can be really shitty.
Amelia Nannette Even as a last ditch effort I’d say it’s cruel. I’d rather die than live with no purpose.
Now instead of icepicks they use drugs. Nothing has changed.
@@abark medicines are infinitely better than lobotomy
@@Call-me-Al Really? Destroying people's personalities and affecting their bodies in order to control them is infinitely better how?
@@abark because that premise of yours is false.
People need to keep in mind that the Nobel Prize in Medicine, is for advances in our understanding of medicine. Not for moral rectitude. Moniz's work did in fact advance our understanding of medicine, indeed he's largely responsible for what we do understand about our brains. Giving him the prize in medicine is not a judgement on whether his work was beneficial for society. It's a judgement on how beneficial his work is to science. Much of what we now know about how the brain works comes from those lobotomy patients. Nobody would have known to make a dopamine inhibitor if they hadn't first known which part of the brain they should be looking at. Dopamine flow is the reason why cutting the line to the thalamus worked. Sure, it's better to simply stop the dopamine: but if they hadn't first known about lobotomy they wouldn't have known to target dopamine. Scientific discoveries don't happen in a vacuum: they cause one another.
Definitely agree with everything. I think he truly deserved the award
Lol nerd
Exactly
@@ricekrispy3933 lol fetus
Its a necessary evil that allowed us to progress.
I had an incredibly loud doorbell that drove all my neighbours crazy. I had this replaced with a lovely handmade softwood knocker for the door. Therefore, inevitably, I would win the no bell peace prize.
Okay dad
Berengier817
Tough crowd.
Wow!
Moral of the video : Don't drill random holes into body parts
Holy crap! I'm so relieved that I didn't live in that time. Great video as always!
***** CP? Club Penguin???
Trison Dahal child pornography. ***** is fucked up.
I really want CP to be Club Penguin now....
You know?, current procedures are not as far as you think, some times they turn a living being into a human scare crow, and that without talking about cosmetic surgery. Is more or less the same, just with one or two new toys.
It's terrifying to think that had I lived some 60-70 years earlier, just because I had a traumatic experience when I was young that caused a massive phobia, that the doctors would have thought it appropriate to pull a dementor and remove what is basically my soul. Because remember kids, the most important thing is behaving normally. To hell with personal happiness and peace of mind.
The irony is so intense
Wow! Really nice info
I disagree with this "worst" qualifier. Sure, in hindsight we know what lobotomy was doing to these patients. But at the time, this research was pioneering in treating their patients. The doctors weren't evil or exhibiting malice. They were genuinely trying to advance science. If you had to evaluate this prize only with the knowledge they had at the time, you would certainly see it differently.
...as others have pointed out... Obama's was clearly worst, since he had done NOTHING to deserve it. And to this day, he has done nothing to deserve it; so it was a nobel peace prize given for empty promises.
xvjau really, compare him to other presidents and you have a pretty decent person.
Irene Wan Decent, for sure. Being decent does not net somebody a Nobel prize, however. I think the largest flaw in the system is that it is an annual one. The board HAS to give out a peace prize even if nobody solved a conflict or prevented a war, and this means that in years where these things do not occur somebody else must get the prize. Barack Obama was the choice they made and he probably wasn't the best because there were lots of world leaders uninvolved in wars. The Nobel prize went to President Obama for his promises, but I'm not sure promises are enough. Lots of still-raging Republicans certainly don't.
Irene Wan Sure, but my point was if he was deserving of a nobel peace prize. No he wasn't. Not by a long shot. He had done nothing. That's the point. Jimmy Carter, for example, would have been a much better chioce.
xvjau There was a lot of hype surrounding Obama back in 2008/9, so I think that on that basis it can be excused. Personally, I don't understand why Al Gore, ManBearPig himself, got the prize..:)
I think you guys display a very naive understanding of medicine in this video. As horrible and destructive as the lobotomy may seem to people today, it was a breakthrough treatment that helped thousands of people. The fact is that lobotomies did increase quality of life for people suffering from mental illness, and acting like Moniz didn't do something great for these people is irresponsible and wrong. Certainly today's methods are preferable to those employed in the past, but future methods will probably also be preferable to those used now, and keeping that in mind is important.
It "helped" thousands of people by ridding them of symptoms of mental illnesses. Yes, but it also rid those same people of what makes us people really. A better statement is it helped cur the symptoms of metal disorders with a heavy cost on the part of the patient. It left some people as little more then vegetables unseeing and not feeling. Yes their symptoms were gone but so were they. And if you look most of the people "happy" about the lobotomy were not those actually lobotomized but those around them (take that as you will). There is the exception and some success stories but those are just that, "exceptions".
Plus don't forget that this breakthrough also led to us learning more and more how the brain works so that we can bypass these kinda barbaric practices
Yeah, your 'quality of life' improves immensely once your personality, motivation and creativity have been permanently wiped out. FFS.
Increased quality of life and he did something great for them? You can't be serious.
Humble TreeStump You say "it helped cure the symptoms of mental disorders with a heavy cost on the part of the patient", but my point was that the procedure had both positive and negative effects, and in many cases, the positive outweighed the negative. Yes, you lose a depth of emotion, and you stop caring about things. But, you retain your memories, and you stop experiencing the truly terrible effects of symptoms like psychosis. I think I would rather lose my personality than be tormented by my disorder. It was a miracle for the time. The fact that the lobotomy was more appreciated by the caretakers than the patients does NOT mean that the procedure did not help the patients, or that it was done for the benefit of the caretakers. I'm sure that sort of thing did happen sometimes, but it was not the norm.
"It's amazing that the human body can live without a frontal lobe."
Well made. With so much clutter and chaos it is nice to hear some plain speak.
Nikola Tesla said it the best-
Progress is very different then technology
Cure4Living Give him a break. He went crazy after being screwed on by ''businessmen" his whole life. He was also afraid of peaches.
How the hell can you do a video about lobotomy and it's failure without mentioning the Kennedy daughter???
12799MaDeuce What happened to her?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
12799MaDeuce how have I never heard of this? How monstrous. I really can’t comprehend it... bastards.
One sent to the crazy house.... the other sent to the white house..... hmmmm
How terrible :(
One thing that really struck me during my time in healthcare was I had a lady who had actually undergone shock therapy in the 70s and the crazy thing was she told me that she felt it was very effective at the time and nothing had ever quite helped her like shock treatment did, past or present technology.
I love the story of phineas gage so much. In 5th grade I read a book about it, and became so hooked on the story