I really enjoyed watching Ilia skate during the JrGP, was a little worried about how much taller he got in the last few years as that can affect the timing/rhythm of your jumps. But it seems like he will be the one to beat, should Nathan, Vincent, and Jason all retire. I would have liked to have seen him at the Olympics. :( He's like got the jumps of Nathan mixed in with some Yuzu Swag, that Michael Jackson SP...one of my favorite programs of the season. I think he will definitely make it interesting on an intl level.
His mother Tatiana Malinina was the best jumper of her generation with the purest technique. If her coaches had paid more attention to the rest of her programs she would have medaled more often.
I kind of think that what Ilia is doing - the 4-4 combos - is a more likely and natural next step for men's skating, rather than the 4A. Will be interesting to watch him grow and develop artistically for the next few seasons. He should've been named to the Olympic team, though.
For the SP yes because how limited the jumping passes allowed but in the FP with 7 jumping passes and with how repetition rules work, I don't think 4-4 is attractive point wise.
@@yohanes2034 Not necessarily. - In the short program, 4T-4T (9.5+9.5), 4Lz (11.5), 3A (8.0) = 38.5 is better than 4Z-3Lo (11.5+4.9), 4F (11), 3A (8.0) = 35.4. - In the long program it's a bit tricky. Skaters need to follow the following rules: - Two jumps (3+ revolutions) can be repeated once if they are in a jump combination - Only one quad can be repeated. - An axel jump is required in the program. - Let's also assume that no 4A is executed. We can try to build the highest scoring programs (without 1.1x bonus): - No 4T-4T: 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4Lz (11.5), 4F+euler+3F (16.8), 4Lo-3T (14.7), 4S (9.7), 4T (9.5), 3A (8) = 86.6 - With 4T-4T: 4T-4T (19), 4Lz (11.5) 4F+euler+3F (16.8), 3A-3Lo (12.9), 4S (9.7), 4Lo (10.5), 3A (8) = 88.4 - With 3A-4T: 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4Lz (11.5), 4F+euler+3F (16.8),, 3A-4T (17.5), 4S (9.7), 4Lo (10.5), 3A (8) = 90.4 3A-4T would be a better choice than 4T-4T in this case. If we allow 4A, then: - No 4T-4T: 4A-3Lo (17.4), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4Lz-3T (15.7), 4S (9.7), 4T (9.5), 4Lo (10.5) = 92.1 - With 4T-4T: 4T-4T (19), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4S (9.7), 3A (8), 4Lo (10.5) = 92.9 - With 3A-4T: 3A-4T (17.5), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4A-3Lo (17.4), 4S (9.7), 4Lz (11.5), 4Lo (10.5) = 95.9 3A-4T still a better choice than 4T-4T
@@MachaLatte123 wow you cracking the number but yeah as I was saying SP would be time where 4-4 is worthwile because only 3 jumping passes. But the risk is huge since SP is full with restrictions and if you make too many mistakes you could miss qualifying for the FP. For the FP, it's a toss up really cause the point difference is not that much. If Ilia is capable to do 6 quads program consistent (beside 3A) that's plenty enough points. My hope for him is that he continues to develop the other aspect of skating, transitions etc. Cause I'd hate to see a jumping drill program.
Love this! It would be interesting to compare Illia when he goes through puberty. I forget how old Yuzuru is but I’m guessing he’s done growing physically and would be interesting to compare both when Illia is more developed physical.
Yes for sure! Although I don’t quite think Yuzu was spitting out 4T-4T or 4Lz’s easily when he was 17 haha. Also btw puberty ends usually at latest ~14-16 years old and Ilia is 17 😂 Hope growing more treats Ilia well though in any case!
Ya puberty doesn’t wreck male figure skaters as much as it does female skaters and that’s partly because (a lot of) female skaters rely on their tiny bodies to jump quads and triple axels. Any growth spurt in either gender is going to cause problems as the skater adjusts but females have it worse.
Yuzuru is 27 years old, he's long done growing ;) actually, I'm not sure he's going to be around for long enough to compare him with fully-grown Ilia. Seems like Ilia will be the next chapter, after Yuzuru and maybe even Nathan retire (I'm really hoping Nathan won't retire at his tender age of 22, but IF he wins the OGM, I can't see where he could find the motivation to go on).
Great channel with very interesting insights! Just one thing you might be interested in regarding the history of the quad-quad (2:14)-- there were rumors that Nathan has been able to do them since at least 2017/18. People from his old rink (before Raf's team moved over to Great Park Ice) have said they've seen him doing 4T-4Ts before. I also remember Max Aaron said in an interview once that he's seen Nathan ripping them off during practice sessions for fun. It's a shame we don't have video, but I guess it's expected considering Nathan never posts practice footage to his Insta... like the only reason we saw the 4A attempt was because somebody else filmed it.
I agree with you 100%. If I were to compare Ilia Malinin's jumps to Hanyu's jumps( Of which Hanyu has the most aesthetically pleasing quad jumps ever IMO), I would say Iia's jumps are more PURE..... Some of it can be because he is still so thin and relatively lanky; kind of like the Russian girls before they hit their growth spurt. The one other thing Malinin has going for him is that he still hasn't quite hit the part of his development where he has the (man) power... I remember seeing an interview with Nathan where he was talking about his development from being a kid, working the technique to be very good and then essentially hitting another gear when he got the man-power. I think Ilia is on the cusp of that and I think we will see even more effortlessness from him in the next year or so. A funny thing is that I made a comment after seeing that triple Lutz/Quad Loop combo that the way he was over his right side was God-Like... I didn't know his IG user name was Quad G0d...
Pertaining to similarities in technique, since Ilia is training alongside Nathan down in Cali with Raf, I wouldn't be surprised if he watches and studies Nathan's techniques. On an interview pertaining to the 4A, he mentioned he has studied both Yuzuru's and Nathan's attempts and is trying to combine their techniques in his own attempts.
@@EricStinehart...absolutely. It's exciting to know that if Nathan retires, the future of men's skating in the US will probably still be in good hands. And if Nathan is still skating after this season then I look forward to their many future quad battles :)
I'm not sure why anyone would study Nathan's axel technique as it's not evry good :'> I know we're a bit lacking in skaters attempting the 4A, but i think it's better to study great 3As since at least the technique will be great axel technique
@@meridesiree7940...Ilia personally thinks Nathan's 4A is closer than Yuzuru's. That would be why he studies it. You may have a different opinion than Ilia, and that's fine, but I am simply stating what Ilia himself has said. My original point was just that, aside from training with Nathan's coach, Ilia has also talked about studying other skaters...which means he prob studies Nathan's jumps and that would account for many of the same techniques the two of them use. And going back to the axel, it is Nathan's weakest jump, but it isn't bad by any means. His triple axel is still better than the various jumps of many skaters'. He has changed his technique from how it was done in 2017 and the jump has improved a ton over the years. It has proven to be an incredibly stable and consistent jump for him. I can't recall that it has given him any issues since the start of 2019. I've actually seen Yuzu miss more triple axels than Nathan the past several years.
llia is a futre world and olympic champion 2026 if he consistant like Nathan He is everythings , best jump technique and landing , great spinner , great musical , he know how to connect with the audiuens
We know that. But the judges don’t know or deliberately ignore that. Hence the kings and queens of competitive singles skating are all multiple quad jumpers.
Thanks for analyzing Ilia little bit. I wish you could have had video. I was quite unhappy when he was not named to the Olympic team. While I know that Jason is an elegant skater, I just don't think he is likely to end up in a medal position. And I think Elia could possibly do that.
Eric, I would like to make one more comment regarding Nathan's and Ilia's setups being similar.... I think that Rafael has the skaters set up all the jumps on the counter clockwise circle firstly because every jump is on a circle and secondly because if all the jumps have the same setup, it is easy to substitute any(all) other jumps for any jump that might not be going well that day... Let's think of how many times we have seen Nathan "changing" the jump layout on his routine.... If they all have the same setup on the circle, it sure takes off the pressure when substitutability is an option... I personally think that the jump setup on the circle is more natural and affords the skater less time to think too long and have their timing tighten up before the jump.. What do you think?
I think that makes sense! Most jumps are done on some sort of a circle/curve although it can vary between jumps & skaters, e.g. Axels are done on a curve but Elizaveta's is one of the more extreme ones
You talk about his quads being the best. In other videos you have talked about transitions and GOEs. Where does Ilia fit in when you put it all together? He is young, maturing, and his time is coming. Don't rush him and turn the mens competition into a fiasco like the women are in.
I think the committee didn’t send him to Olympics, because there’s a possibility he could have snatched the gold from Chen. Kinda like Tara Lipinsky-Michele Kwan situation …so unfair for this kid
Lol, some of you are drinking way too much Ilia koolaid at the moment. Unlike the Michelle/Tara era, this current judging system is based on mathematics, and there's no way Ilia's PCS or his TES would beat out Nathan's at this time. Tara was actually also the World champ and the US National champ the year she beat Michelle at the Olympics. That's not at all the case for Ilia. Even with a fall on a quad and a fall in the choreo seq, Nathan still beat Ilia by 20-some pts at the US Nat. Reason Ilia didn't get picked was his lack of body of work. He's too new, too inexperienced, and nobody knows yet how consistent he is or isn't.
@@divinearia1601 The current judging system, like every one before it, is based on favoritism. Chen's components really shouldn't be much higher than Ilia's, and Ilia's GOE should be much higher than Chen's. If the judges actually followed the rules, Ilia would be ahead of Chen. "He's too new, too inexperienced, and nobody knows how consistent he is or isn't." That statement would only be valid if the men selected over him actually had a track record of excellence. The only "consistency" Zhou and Brown have demonstrated has been consistent disappointment, year after year. They both sucked at the Olympics.
@@DeepSeas.....uh, no. If the judging system was truly based in favoritism then Ilia prob wouldn't have beaten either Jason or Vincent. Coming into US Nats, he was pretty much a nobody. You, though, are definitely expressing favoritism. Nathan's components shouldn't be much higher than Ilia's? Pls stop joking. Ilia skates like he's still a junior...not much speed and unpolished. His skating skills and edges need a lot of work. Same with performance and music interpretation. As for TES, the base value of Nathan's free program, alone, was about 11 pts higher than Ilia's because of the difficulty of his jump layout, and that's not even factoring in the difference in the short program base value. For BV difference, that's a pretty large gap. And GOE? It was closer for the jumps but Ilia's execution of spins, step and choreo sequences all need more work as well.
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I really enjoyed watching Ilia skate during the JrGP, was a little worried about how much taller he got in the last few years as that can affect the timing/rhythm of your jumps. But it seems like he will be the one to beat, should Nathan, Vincent, and Jason all retire. I would have liked to have seen him at the Olympics. :( He's like got the jumps of Nathan mixed in with some Yuzu Swag, that Michael Jackson SP...one of my favorite programs of the season. I think he will definitely make it interesting on an intl level.
Kinda agree, he does have hints of the yuzu swag hahaha, plus the posture is kinda the same. Maybe its because hes also long legged
His mother Tatiana Malinina was the best jumper of her generation with the purest technique. If her coaches had paid more attention to the rest of her programs she would have medaled more often.
Yes!! 👏👏👏
I kind of think that what Ilia is doing - the 4-4 combos - is a more likely and natural next step for men's skating, rather than the 4A. Will be interesting to watch him grow and develop artistically for the next few seasons. He should've been named to the Olympic team, though.
For the SP yes because how limited the jumping passes allowed but in the FP with 7 jumping passes and with how repetition rules work, I don't think 4-4 is attractive point wise.
@@yohanes2034 Not necessarily.
- In the short program, 4T-4T (9.5+9.5), 4Lz (11.5), 3A (8.0) = 38.5 is better than 4Z-3Lo (11.5+4.9), 4F (11), 3A (8.0) = 35.4.
- In the long program it's a bit tricky. Skaters need to follow the following rules:
- Two jumps (3+ revolutions) can be repeated once if they are in a jump combination
- Only one quad can be repeated.
- An axel jump is required in the program.
- Let's also assume that no 4A is executed.
We can try to build the highest scoring programs (without 1.1x bonus):
- No 4T-4T: 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4Lz (11.5), 4F+euler+3F (16.8), 4Lo-3T (14.7), 4S (9.7), 4T (9.5), 3A (8) = 86.6
- With 4T-4T: 4T-4T (19), 4Lz (11.5) 4F+euler+3F (16.8), 3A-3Lo (12.9), 4S (9.7), 4Lo (10.5), 3A (8) = 88.4
- With 3A-4T: 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4Lz (11.5), 4F+euler+3F (16.8),, 3A-4T (17.5), 4S (9.7), 4Lo (10.5), 3A (8) = 90.4
3A-4T would be a better choice than 4T-4T in this case.
If we allow 4A, then:
- No 4T-4T: 4A-3Lo (17.4), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4Lz-3T (15.7), 4S (9.7), 4T (9.5), 4Lo (10.5) = 92.1
- With 4T-4T: 4T-4T (19), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4Lz-3Lo (16.4), 4S (9.7), 3A (8), 4Lo (10.5) = 92.9
- With 3A-4T: 3A-4T (17.5), 4A (12.5), 4F-euler-3F (16.8), 4A-3Lo (17.4), 4S (9.7), 4Lz (11.5), 4Lo (10.5) = 95.9
3A-4T still a better choice than 4T-4T
@@MachaLatte123 wow you cracking the number but yeah as I was saying SP would be time where 4-4 is worthwile because only 3 jumping passes. But the risk is huge since SP is full with restrictions and if you make too many mistakes you could miss qualifying for the FP.
For the FP, it's a toss up really cause the point difference is not that much. If Ilia is capable to do 6 quads program consistent (beside 3A) that's plenty enough points. My hope for him is that he continues to develop the other aspect of skating, transitions etc. Cause I'd hate to see a jumping drill program.
@@MachaLatte123 You can't do 4-4 in a short program :) i don't know about free skate tho
@@MachaLatte123 You can't do 4+4 in the SP. The combo has to be 3+2, 3+3, 4+2 or 4+3.
Love this! It would be interesting to compare Illia when he goes through puberty. I forget how old Yuzuru is but I’m guessing he’s done growing physically and would be interesting to compare both when Illia is more developed physical.
Yes for sure! Although I don’t quite think Yuzu was spitting out 4T-4T or 4Lz’s easily when he was 17 haha. Also btw puberty ends usually at latest ~14-16 years old and Ilia is 17 😂 Hope growing more treats Ilia well though in any case!
Ya puberty doesn’t wreck male figure skaters as much as it does female skaters and that’s partly because (a lot of) female skaters rely on their tiny bodies to jump quads and triple axels. Any growth spurt in either gender is going to cause problems as the skater adjusts but females have it worse.
That’s just my uneducated opinion! 😂
@@kerris1782 No yeah I think that’s pretty fair!
Yuzuru is 27 years old, he's long done growing ;) actually, I'm not sure he's going to be around for long enough to compare him with fully-grown Ilia. Seems like Ilia will be the next chapter, after Yuzuru and maybe even Nathan retire (I'm really hoping Nathan won't retire at his tender age of 22, but IF he wins the OGM, I can't see where he could find the motivation to go on).
Agree with you Ilia should have gone to Beijing. I saw his quad toe quad toe on Instagram and was blown away. Looking forward to seeing him in worlds.
Great channel with very interesting insights! Just one thing you might be interested in regarding the history of the quad-quad (2:14)-- there were rumors that Nathan has been able to do them since at least 2017/18. People from his old rink (before Raf's team moved over to Great Park Ice) have said they've seen him doing 4T-4Ts before. I also remember Max Aaron said in an interview once that he's seen Nathan ripping them off during practice sessions for fun. It's a shame we don't have video, but I guess it's expected considering Nathan never posts practice footage to his Insta... like the only reason we saw the 4A attempt was because somebody else filmed it.
Thank you for pointing out very good and valid points! Would love to see more of you. New Subscriber!
Thank you, more to come!
I agree with you 100%. If I were to compare Ilia Malinin's jumps to Hanyu's jumps( Of which Hanyu has the most aesthetically pleasing quad jumps ever IMO), I would say Iia's jumps are more PURE..... Some of it can be because he is still so thin and relatively lanky; kind of like the Russian girls before they hit their growth spurt. The one other thing Malinin has going for him is that he still hasn't quite hit the part of his development where he has the (man) power... I remember seeing an interview with Nathan where he was talking about his development from being a kid, working the technique to be very good and then essentially hitting another gear when he got the man-power. I think Ilia is on the cusp of that and I think we will see even more effortlessness from him in the next year or so. A funny thing is that I made a comment after seeing that triple Lutz/Quad Loop combo that the way he was over his right side was God-Like... I didn't know his IG user name was Quad G0d...
Can't wait to see Ilia win Junior Worlds and Senior worlds this year!!
Pertaining to similarities in technique, since Ilia is training alongside Nathan down in Cali with Raf, I wouldn't be surprised if he watches and studies Nathan's techniques. On an interview pertaining to the 4A, he mentioned he has studied both Yuzuru's and Nathan's attempts and is trying to combine their techniques in his own attempts.
Yes I saw that too - makes sense! Would be so cool if Ilia got 4A
@@EricStinehart...absolutely. It's exciting to know that if Nathan retires, the future of men's skating in the US will probably still be in good hands. And if Nathan is still skating after this season then I look forward to their many future quad battles :)
I'm not sure why anyone would study Nathan's axel technique as it's not evry good :'> I know we're a bit lacking in skaters attempting the 4A, but i think it's better to study great 3As since at least the technique will be great axel technique
@@meridesiree7940...Ilia personally thinks Nathan's 4A is closer than Yuzuru's. That would be why he studies it. You may have a different opinion than Ilia, and that's fine, but I am simply stating what Ilia himself has said. My original point was just that, aside from training with Nathan's coach, Ilia has also talked about studying other skaters...which means he prob studies Nathan's jumps and that would account for many of the same techniques the two of them use.
And going back to the axel, it is Nathan's weakest jump, but it isn't bad by any means. His triple axel is still better than the various jumps of many skaters'. He has changed his technique from how it was done in 2017 and the jump has improved a ton over the years. It has proven to be an incredibly stable and consistent jump for him. I can't recall that it has given him any issues since the start of 2019. I've actually seen Yuzu miss more triple axels than Nathan the past several years.
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Kolyada has the best 4Lz when he gets it right. That jump is a thing of beauty, and his posture makes it so elegant
Except he hardly ever gets it right.
llia is a futre world and olympic champion 2026 if he consistant like Nathan
He is everythings , best jump technique and landing , great spinner , great musical , he know how to connect with the audiuens
The talent he is...future Olympic
Jumps are better than Yuma's.
Better techniques, for sure. No pre-rotations.
I mean, he is just amazing, but figure skating it's not all about jumps.
Greetings from México:)
Agreed! Greetings 😄
We know that. But the judges don’t know or deliberately ignore that. Hence the kings and queens of competitive singles skating are all multiple quad jumpers.
Thanks for analyzing Ilia little bit. I wish you could have had video. I was quite unhappy when he was not named to the Olympic team. While I know that Jason is an elegant skater, I just don't think he is likely to end up in a medal position. And I think Elia could possibly do that.
Eric, I would like to make one more comment regarding Nathan's and Ilia's setups being similar.... I think that Rafael has the skaters set up all the jumps on the counter clockwise circle firstly because every jump is on a circle and secondly because if all the jumps have the same setup, it is easy to substitute any(all) other jumps for any jump that might not be going well that day... Let's think of how many times we have seen Nathan "changing" the jump layout on his routine.... If they all have the same setup on the circle, it sure takes off the pressure when substitutability is an option... I personally think that the jump setup on the circle is more natural and affords the skater less time to think too long and have their timing tighten up before the jump.. What do you think?
I think that makes sense! Most jumps are done on some sort of a circle/curve although it can vary between jumps & skaters, e.g. Axels are done on a curve but Elizaveta's is one of the more extreme ones
eric im missing a video on the quadaxel!
generally missing new videos on ur channel ;)
Disgraceful he wasn't chosen to go to Olympics. He has quads, great spins. great choreo and lovely smooth style.
You talk about his quads being the best. In other videos you have talked about transitions and GOEs. Where does Ilia fit in when you put it all together? He is young, maturing, and his time is coming. Don't rush him and turn the mens competition into a fiasco like the women are in.
All American Boy 🇷🇺
I do think Ilia has the best quad!
It would be great to add clips of jumps
Nathan uses both mohawk and 3-turn into his quad flip though
Why was Ilia not chosen for the Olympic team?
Vladimir Samoylov 4S-4S
I think the committee didn’t send him to Olympics, because there’s a possibility he could have snatched the gold from Chen. Kinda like Tara Lipinsky-Michele Kwan situation …so unfair for this kid
No way. He's components wouldn't be high enough
Lol, some of you are drinking way too much Ilia koolaid at the moment. Unlike the Michelle/Tara era, this current judging system is based on mathematics, and there's no way Ilia's PCS or his TES would beat out Nathan's at this time. Tara was actually also the World champ and the US National champ the year she beat Michelle at the Olympics. That's not at all the case for Ilia. Even with a fall on a quad and a fall in the choreo seq, Nathan still beat Ilia by 20-some pts at the US Nat. Reason Ilia didn't get picked was his lack of body of work. He's too new, too inexperienced, and nobody knows yet how consistent he is or isn't.
@@divinearia1601 The current judging system, like every one before it, is based on favoritism. Chen's components really shouldn't be much higher than Ilia's, and Ilia's GOE should be much higher than Chen's. If the judges actually followed the rules, Ilia would be ahead of Chen.
"He's too new, too inexperienced, and nobody knows how consistent he is or isn't."
That statement would only be valid if the men selected over him actually had a track record of excellence. The only "consistency" Zhou and Brown have demonstrated has been consistent disappointment, year after year. They both sucked at the Olympics.
@@DeepSeas.....uh, no. If the judging system was truly based in favoritism then Ilia prob wouldn't have beaten either Jason or Vincent. Coming into US Nats, he was pretty much a nobody. You, though, are definitely expressing favoritism. Nathan's components shouldn't be much higher than Ilia's? Pls stop joking. Ilia skates like he's still a junior...not much speed and unpolished. His skating skills and edges need a lot of work. Same with performance and music interpretation. As for TES, the base value of Nathan's free program, alone, was about 11 pts higher than Ilia's because of the difficulty of his jump layout, and that's not even factoring in the difference in the short program base value. For BV difference, that's a pretty large gap. And GOE? It was closer for the jumps but Ilia's execution of spins, step and choreo sequences all need more work as well.
Come on, the figure skating is not all about jumps. Shame on you as a professional.
When did I ever say it was…lol