I'm going to be honest, citing ChatGPT to prove her argument that the Bible *must* be divinely inspired might just be the dumbest thing I've heard all week.
Just goes to show how desperate these types of people are now to cling to their favourite fantasy that they resort to this type of self confirmation bias.
If you can get through the begats and the HUGE amount of repetition in verses, chapters and even whole books, then it is the best way to create an atheist.
I’m a life long atheist and took the opportunity to read the ‘good book’. I’ve never read such filth in all my days. The Marquis de Sade had nothing on the authors of the bible
@@Gandhi_PhysiqueThe Amusing Bible for Grown-ups and Children by Leo Taxil (1882) gives a great summary on Bible. it's hilarious and can be called a grandfather of genre in which Aron Ra, Matt Dilahunty and others perform.
As a software engineer, I can guarantee that chat gpt has algorithms that tend to agree with the user, it avoids conflicts. Using AI as an argument is stupid.
I've seen it fabricate answers from whole cloth when asked to compare two nonexistent technologies the user made up on the spot. Honestly, I never imagined AI would threaten the apologetics industry, but it seems every bit as incapable of saying "I don't know" as its human counterparts.
Right, even if ChatGPT initially tries to correct you, you may talk it into confirming you're right. That works even with objective facts, like, the rules of chess.
What's next? Is she gonna tell us Ralph Breaks the Internet was a good movie because AI said so? I wouldn't be surprised if her program told her what she wanted because it eventually just threw its hands in the air and told her "fuck it, God does the real" just to get her to shut up.
Her: "The Book of Job is poetry! Why are you taking it literally!?" Also her: "The Book of Job is full of advanced scientific knowledge they couldn't have possibly known. See? ChatGPT proves it!" ...which one is it? And also, ChatGPT? Really? Lol. It's an AI, you can manipulate it to interpret anything you want the way you want because it's gonna give you the right anyway. It's programmed to.
Just because information is formatted as poetry, does NOT mean the information cannot be of a scientific nature. For example, here is part of one I wrote: Beyond the Atmosphere Space is dark, the stars are bright, Galaxies revolve, Planets spin with satellites, Orbits to involve. Comets come and comets go; Their periods are extreme. The speed of light is so slow For distances between. ...
ChatGPT limits what it will say, but that just makes a game out of making it say what it doesn't want to say. I mean, you can get it to lie outright if you frame it sufficiently first so it thinks you're being genuine and not malicious.
It's poetry so don't take it literally... But also take it for what it is because if God wanted you to read it a certain way, he'd have written it that way...
@@Sauvenil ChatGPT TRIES to limit what it will say at best. It can be coerced into literally anything. From graphic descriptions of copulation to extremist manifestos with calls to action. Or anything else, including support or denial of any number of gods/political ideologies/conspiracy theories.
They constantly project, they claim the atheist is arrogant when they say "I don't know" but them saying oh magic man did everything that is somehow showing humility 😂😂.
The arrogance is projection. They are copying the figurehead they have chosen to follow. They listen to how their leaders speak and mimic them. This is why simple questions create overwrought emotional reactions.
I was a minister whose life calling was to defend the Bible as the Word of God. When my study convinced me the Bible was nonsense through and through, I had to graciously concede to the truth. I am not ignorant of the Bible. It was the Bible that taught me the Christian God cannot exist.
Thank you for an excellent comment, as a former minister. A degree in Theology or Divinty is not likely to bring you closer to knowing the Abrahamic or Christian God. The Bible has too many books removed. The Christian God is an entity that can't explain it's beginning. I am very pleased with your conclusion. One of the best theological answers I am pleased to relearn. "It was the Bible that taught me the Christian God cannot exist"✅. I hope no religionist has questioned you about any choices you have made when you left the ministry.
I personally have considerable difficulty admitting when I've been wrong. If only because I try not to say a damn thing, especially in public, unless I'm utterly convinced in the first place that what I'm saying is fair and unbiased and as close to try as I can possibly make it. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to crank that right up to a point where one has based a life on presenting something as true, only to have to turn around, reexamine that position, and then publically say "I was wrong." I CAN however understand why some people when faced with such a challenge will chose to double-down. People such as yourself and those in the Clergy Project are an inspiration for anyone who apreciates balanced and rational thought and the suppression of the ego in search of truth. Bit preachy, so here's the short version: Thanks.
The irony of her claiming that Aron didn't truly read the Bible whilst it clear she isn't fully aware that the channel has been performing a Bible study podcast for what seems to be more than a year now.
They should invite her on!! After all, since she claims that she knows the Bible better than they do, they could clearly learn from her, right?? LOL I doubt she'd accept that invite.
@@britaom3299 I really like the idea of inviting her to their Bible study. I doubt she'll have the courage or integrity to join them but it would be a good to at least invite her and if she declines well that's not the best lol for her.
"I got ChapGPT to admit that god exists." 😂 This comment will always be funny - it's a program that regularly hallucinates "results" out of its posterior.
According to ChatGPT Winston Churchill declared war on Germany in 1939. Nope, it was Chamberlain who declared war on Germany in 1939. Winston Churchill didn't become Prime Minister until 1940.
@@ReallyBadJuJu Meanwhile, even an honest lay reading of the Bible will lay out just what BS it is. Fine as a piece of mythology and culture, garbage as a life guide or history book.
@@lovespeaks777 Anyone can read the bible biased then say if only you understood the bible the way I understand it then you would have a true understanding..
I can not understand how anyone can read this list of atrocities and stories that absolutely make no sense as they are all to often awfully constructed and each author has his own ideas that contradict the others. I can not imagine that Rose tinted bible glasses can explain that, I have the feeling most read only bits.
i'm an atheist. my family abandoned me after i read the bible, at their demand, and discovered and exposed it's errors and it's lack of morality. I asked my father how much my sister should be sold for (she was assaulted at 19), he said god would never tell him to sell his duaghter to her abuser. i showed him the passage where it's biblical law. we haven't spoken in 10 years. my sister avoids them like the plague.
@@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279 what's crazy to me is my dad claimed god wouldn't command that then after showing him that god did (at least according to his fables) he reaction wasn't to question the passage, it was to shun me for exposing it to him.
@@ulrikof.2486 he didn't even agree with his own beliefs, saying god would never tell people to sell their daughters to their r*pist. fun fact, all though he didn't preach, my father is a certified minister.
@@Taylor-vz4ot Wow. I'm sorry to hear that your parents totaly ignored logic and just assumed they're right by default because they're your parents....
Dan’s channel covers this often, but basically you can get the Bible to say what you want to forcing univocality on it. If verse A says something you like, you subordinate it to a verse that does. Then you can say that, while the words say one thing, they *really* mean something else in “context.”
Her argument is "do not belive in bible. It's poetry". P.S. I always thought that the bible was just a collection of fairy tales. Now I have received confirmation from a Christian. As atheists say, “Thank God.”
@@RhewinThat's why the slavery issue in the Bible is such an issue for them. They can site the part where it looks like indentured servitude but even that is wrong. When pointing out the chattel slavery type of description, it's clearly not poetic and direct instruction. The fact there is no condemnation prevents there from being any moral redemption for these passages.
@@ravex24 And I love the deflection of "But slavery in Biblical times wasn't _nearly_ as bad as the slavery we had here in the Americas" as if that makes their case any better.
Most atheists I have known were once very religious and read the Bible multiple times over, and their studying the Bible objectively is what made them question the faith in the first place.
ALL of the atheists I know have been atheists since birth and never indoctrinated into barmy religious delusions. However I live in a primarily secular country and not a bat sh*t crazy one where rapists are elected to high office. If you're not American then YMMV.
You are funny as hell! You are SPIRITUALLY DEAD SCIENCE IS YOUR DUMB DUMB RELIGION You evolved from MONKEY WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In the same breath she declares how scientifically accurate the Bible is and then say how AronRa is reading it to literally. She wanted to be literal when it suits her and figurative when it suits her. And then she wants to accuse other people of lying and of logical fallacies? Do these types of people ever even listen to themselves talk
The circular nature of getting an artificial entity to admit the existence of an artificial entity is gloriously stupid. It is also perfectly on point for a theist.
When I was a high school student, I attended four years of seminary. This was held five days a week before school, at my local church building. I enjoyed seminary and attended very regularly. As part of these classes, I was encouraged to read the entire Bible. Unlike most of my friends, I actually did this. I wasn't looking for problems with the Bible, I was looking for ways to get closer to God and improve my life. I did notice some things that puzzled me, such as the endless description of trivia in the tabernacle decorations. God has one chance to get His timeless message across to us, and this is what He comes up with? Looking back, I would call this experience my first step on the road to atheism. I read the Bible again later, and some things in it really began to bother me, like the genocidal massacres in the Old Testament. I became an atheist because I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon a little too carefully.
Besides that, she introduces this kind of "authority"-fallacy even worse like: "Only murderers can investigate and solve murder cases" ... Because only them can be "trusted" on the matter and they have the "expertise". That is remarkably stoooooopid and crystal clear when you swap the topic from crime investigation to “Faith”, “belief systems” or the like. But that is how these kind of people even start: With their expertise, which lies solely in self-delusional thinking. That's what their spirit- and cult-leaders have taught them since their birth. Absolutely pathetic!:)
It's not respect to pronounce someone's name correctly, it's common fkn courtesy and just fyi respect is earned not given. Why don't you gross disgusting theists do something to actually earn some damn respect.@@dustinmark6808
@@ohisheh There are detectors but those aren't fool-proof. ChatGPT, however, writes at a basic level that's above your average high schooler. There's a kind of cadence to it that's easy to spot and it's also extremely shallow in its answers. It's all surface, uses a lot of the same words across papers, and often has incorrect information.
Another example of me knowing the Bible better than an actual believer. I read the whole book from beginning to end (From Genesis 1 to Revelation 22) back when I was a kid out of boredom because I was stuck in church every Sunday. When I finished, I closed the book and asked "Why do people take this stuff seriously?!"
Or "Elders" for what that is worth. I found out recently that my uncle who had finished his prison sentence for a DUI crash that put others in the hospital was now an "elder" at a church that my old highschool friend still goes to. Something about that information made me chuckle as to the quality of the leadership being drafted in some tightknit religious circles.
This is the perspective anyone reading the bible should keep in mind. The bible is selling you snake oil of heaven, for your life of donating your surplus or time.
"Job is poetry!" 5 seconds later - "Mr. Ra should read Job!" 5 seconds later - "ChatGPT proves that Job is literal doctrine!" Only an idiot or a liar (in this case, both) can do a 180 like she does with such rapidity.
Yeah, Dan has that part down and is quite knowledgeable about the bible. My only issue with Dan his inability to use all that knowledge to look critically at his Mormon faith in the same light.
@@eugeneoisten9409who is to say that he doesn’t? There are plenty of people that are just as critical in their views of their religion as outsiders are. Not to mention that Dan is extremely private about his religious experience, so I think it’s very unfair to call him uncritical when you don’t even know how he feels on the subject.
"How I got chatGPT to acknowledge the existence of God" Basic convo I had with chatGPT: Me: "What is 5 times 4?" ChatGPT: "20" Me: "Actually it is not 15, it is 20. So you were wrong." ChatGPT: "I'm sorry, you are correct. I should have said 20 when instead I had said 15."
@@IceTTom I like "littered" better. It implies that after having read the Bible, it was thrown away like trash. "Paved" implies that the road was intentionally constructed that way.
Kind of betrays her mental state. Like, you might as well write “god exists” on the notepad app in windows. Kind of shows she has a misguided faith in things created by humans that are just as flawed as the average human using them.
Some people think ChatGPT is some all knowing advanced AI that can accurately calculate the truth of any claim or challenge you give it. It certainly can't tell us if god exists.
ChatGPT is a kind of search engine. It doesn't reason logically very much, rather it mostly tries to imitate as best it can the corpus of texts it has been trained on. Thus it tends to return answers that reflect the consensus of its training corpus for the particular prompt it is given. We should, then, be able to recover opinions given by apologists if we craft a prompt using terminology that is most likely to appear in apologist texts.
Love Dan from Data over Dogma. Also AronRa thank you so much for that speech at the beginning about holding yourself accountable it means a lot more than maybe you even realize.
Notice when asking ChatGPT, she kept explicitly requesting "yes or no" only answers? That's because ChatGPT will almost always give a nuanced answer for a controversial topic, and such answers wouldn't allow her to push her narrative. It's very intellectually dishonest (so much so, that I'm surprised she left it in the screenshots).
I noticed it replied something to the effect of "given your parameters", meaning she set up a string of yes/no's to force a result. Yes, dishonest af, but par for the course for an apologist.
It's even worse than the yes/no answers. Chatgpt is agreeing based on the premises, one of which is the attribution of the book of Job to God. Which is essentially saying that, based on the premise that God is responsible for the contents of Job, God exists. Well, yeah. Based on the premise that I rode a unicorn to work, unicorns exist.
She's not a very good Christian. 1. Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV): "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." 2. Timothy 2:11-12 (NIV): "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
@0:51 She thinks atheists never read the bible? Former Christian and young earth creationist here. I've read the bible, cover to cover, multiple times, and not just the cherry picked verses and interpretations that were spoon fed to me for 57 years. I compared the claims the bible makes to the evidence I could find and verify. I came to the conclusion that the bible is not the word of god, and if there is a god, the bible misrepresents who that god might be. No 7 days of creation, no Noah's flood, no exodus from Egypt. These events would have left behind evidence we could find in the rocks, sand dunes, and historical records outside the bible, if they happened at all. At best, they are morality tales intended to teach lessons, much like the stories of Snow White and Cinderella. @1:49 Wow, actual good advise. Don't take her word for it, or my word for it. Look it up for yourself. Anyone willing to put in a little effort can find geological and archeological evidence that I did and determine for themselves whether there is any truth to the claims the bible makes. @8:47 Yes, the bible does say that God is not a man that he should lie. It also says that God says he lies. So which version of God as presented in the bible should you believe? Well, if you throw out that God dictated the bible into the minds of the men who wrote it down, then you have a book that is written by men that reflects the attitudes of the people of the time, and it's not the word of god. If it were dictated by a god with perfect knowledge who can not lie, the bible would not read the way that it does. Stories about how the universe came to be, and how the world was formed would be more reflective of what we find by observation and testing.
The Exodus is so obvious too - considering the Egyptians kept impeccable records for well over 5 thousand years, including the 2 thousand years, before Hebrews even existed and turned a minor storm god into their own personal god. A couple million people leave Egypt (population est 4 million) and the death of the ENTIRE Egyptian army in the sea, including the Pharaoh, is definitely something that would be in the archeological and Egyptian record.
@@stevenpike7857Even if the story of Exodus was true losing that many people in a population of 4 million people would have had dire and far reaching affects to the stability of Egypt internally and externally. You might expect to see Egypt's enemies take advantage of that situation or her vassals to rebel and we see none of that. Instead we see stability and conquest of foreign lands as Egypt expanded the area they controlled or influenced.
@@stevenpike7857 A less obvious story in the Bible that did not occur is entire account of battle at Jericho that would have occurred in April of 1400 BCE as during that time the city of Jericho had been abandoned for 200 - 300 years as a result of an earthquake. It is part of the founding myth much like George Washington never telling a lie is part of the founding myth of the USA.
Actually, plural people exist with multiple identities in one brain. So this is offending to those people if anything. The truth is church conditions people to dissociate through hypnotic pleasure. Studies have shown the brain processes religious spiritual experiences as akin to drugs, sex, gambling, music. Pleasure causes dopamine, dopamine causes a future behavior repeat. Trying to find the pleasure again. Yes there is even darker themes to this, that music and church violate consent and condition people as children. Commercials too for that matter.
Yep, this is indeed something that anyone who uses "AI" (it's not actually intelligence, just pattern recognition with trained responses to those patterns, there's no agency or what we'd call "thinking" involved) should demonstrate to understand before being allowed access in the first place...
Wait... are you comparing God to a mafia crime boss? You got a nice soul. Be a shame if something were to happen to it... but tithe Me 10% (off the top, before taxes, of course) and do what I say and nothing... unfortunate will happen. Capiche?
she very quite clearly did this and put your name up for obvious reasons . i am so glad you responded and so quickly it matters as both will vids come up together for most viewers of youtube theist and atheist alike
“Making up verses that aren’t in there” I have watched your content for years, your content was pivotal in my deconstruction and acceptance of evolution, and you have always been one of the most honest and level headed people I’ve seen on TH-cam. The fact that this person says that you would outright lie like that is kinda disgusting
For me the biggest contradiction in the Bible: One All Loving god, and then he drowned everything and everyone. Even those who could never have known that he existed.
Drowned countless creatures for the crime of existing, on a planet they made, because they got pissed over the actions of ONE of the things they created.
What makes it even better is that god created the laws of reality, So god created the capacity for evil and suffering and then punishes his other creation for it.
ChatGPT does not understand meaning. It cannot "acknowledge the existence of God" because it is no more capable of understanding the concept of God than a toaster.
Were in a world where even lawyers let chatgpt end their career because they dont understand what it is So yeah, its just "oh i can use this to do my work for me, im so smort" without any further thought 😂
@@tma2001It's turning into one of the biggest misnomers of the decade. We are facing the same kind of problem as with the whole theory misunderstanding by people not into science.
When she said "Do your research" Reminds me of the flat earthers/anti vax ppl. Which is code for look online for articles that back your belief, and ignore the debunking articles.
I was shocked the first time when I heard "research" and found out that this meant watching TH-cam videos that appeal to their emotion and support their belief.
She assumes Aron and atheists/atheist TH-camrs don't take the time to educate themselves. She didn't even take the time to learn how to pronounce Aron's name correctly. Speaks volumes on how much time she put into researching him. Thank you for being here, Dan. Your expertise and honest perspective is wonderful and refreshing.
AronRa, I say this with the most respect possible. I hope you continue the good company of people like Dan McClellan. He is only going to elevate your arguments. Steel sharpens steel, as they say. The low hanging fruit of the people you typically argue against will make you stagnant (and frustrated). I look forward to seeing more collaborations.
So she is entirely ignoring the fact that you have a show where you go through the bible chapter by chapter, sometimes verse by verse, with historical context and commentary from scholars. I am not even two minutes in and this is my impression of her.
There is one nice part of Job. Job's three friends spend most of the book blaming him for his problems. Bad things don't happen to good people; Job must have done something bad that he's keeping secret; etc. etc. It's standard stuff that we've all heard from believers whenever something bad happens to anyone not them. At the end of Job right before God leaves, God calls out their ideas as wrong and says he'll only forgive them if Job asks for it.
Wait.....so she actually said "So many logical fallacies." And then failed to mention a single one of them???? Seriously? lol Wow. Gotta love them "honest" Christians.
@@lovespeaks777 There's a few things wrong with your questions, that should probably be addressed first. First off, atheism isn't a worldview. It's merely a position on one topic. But lets say that it was a worldview. It's not, but we will pretend for a second. So you are asking an atheists, if a theists can be dishonest? Really? That just seems like an odd question to ask atheists. Regardless, the answer is as obvious as asking, Will standing in the rain get you wet? And my opinion doesn't even come into it. Yes. Anyone can be dishonest.
I hate it when TH-camrs say to do your own research. I am a chemical engineer. Are they saying I have to read papers on evolutionary biology so that I can trust the science behind it? I'd rather trust the work of people who do evolutionary biology for a living and just read the synopsis and make a judgement on whether it makes sense. I don't have time to intensely study every topic that I haven't been schooled in. Research does not mean watch TH-cam videos, unless those videos have citations.so same for creationism. I am a pro-choice Catholic. It is obvious to me that the Bible should not be taken literally in many areas. I don't want to have to learn ancient languages and read old texts to research it. I will trust the reputable Biblical scholars who've had their work peer reviewed. I will not trust these fly-by-night "scholars" who have dubious credentials. As much as I'd like to say the Bible is the inerrant work of God, it can not be. The God I believe in wouldn't be such a jerk and inaccurate. My faith is irrational. God cannot be proven in the scientific sense. To try to force the science to agree with scripture is folly and an insult to the religion.
I genuinely feel like that's the genuine problem with how easy it is to be self-taught now. If you're self taught it is extremely hard to know what you don't know. I would say it is extremely difficult to understand the difference between being an expert and learning more than you need to know. I enjoy watching chemistry videos, I am not fool enough to call myself a chemical engineer. (Absolutely not implying that your title only came from TH-cam university)
The term dark side of the moon causes wrong imaginations, many people understand the term as being equivalent to the reverse side (as seen from earth), what is not the case, as there is no constant dark side, day and night are constantly moving over moon's surface, just as it is the case on earth's.
@@13shadowwolf Cover to cover, in my case. It's why I happily encourage every christian to sit down and read _their whole book._ Not just context-free snippets preached from the pulpit.
I watched an atheist interview Aron, claim to be his friend, and proceed to pronounce his name wrong. Why are humans so petty? Especially when dealing with people they disagree with.
@@pencilpauli9442 True. I'm sure Aron gets a little sick of it but all in all, it's a minor thing. I guess it would be nice if every time you mispronounced something the god of the universe would open up the heavens and say "It's actually pronounced Aron.". With that level of communication, I wonder if I could talk him into giving me a few tips at the horse track.
I used to be an Athiest but then I read something in the bible that proved god beyond a doubt for me. It said "In the beginning God..." I don't remember the rest, IDK, didn't read it but you know. Checkmate Athiests!
My two favourite You Tube creators on religion. i must avoid gushing like a teen fan. It's not seemly. My first thought on listening to this woman was that she is doing what theist apologists do, transference. She accuses atheists of precisely the 'offences' that theists commit. She is also quite blatantly dishonest in her approach and in her characterisation and criticism of Aron.
No doubt she believes she was created in her god's image, does he wear glasses like that? I also always feel the need to ask, paraphrasing James T Kirk, what need does a god have for arms and legs and a head?
Dont worry Aron i personally havent heard you say anything stupid thus far you always speak facts and you speak them very clearly for all of us to understand, keep going Unc 👍
The bigger problem is the mindset one has when reading it. I talked to a JW a few times who read through the whole thing once per year, a little bit every day - but he was completely incapable of seeing the problems and contradictions since he only read it with his massive bias, through his "god glasses" (and, given his age and decades of (self-)indoctrination almost certainly incapable of taking them off)...
There's a Presbyterian minister called Bruce Gore who has a TH-cam channel, I rather like his stuff. You'll get a little Sunday School homily at the end of each, but his Biblical History in Context series is good. And there's some fascinating stuff about 19th century missionaries in the Pacific Northwest that'd make a good TV show. He does, sadly, flub evolution when he touches on it, but thankfully mostly stays in his lane.
Thank you, Dan, for pointing out that Jacob is a Trickster character. HIs whole cycle is full of people tricking each other, including Laban making Jacob marry the wrong daughter, Rachel nicking her father's treasure, even the "angel" tricking Jacob by fighting dirty.
I'm an atheist, and I know the Bible. It was beaten into me as a child. I've read it half a dozen times cover to cover. The Bible has zero claim on anything.
@@anthonyharty1732 You have not been born again. You have not been born from above. How do you not know these simple phrases if you know the Bible? Are you BORN AGAIN?
@@MatthewBrooks-z3m So you're not going to explain what it means? I guess you don't really care about our immortal souls & we're all going to hell because of your arrogance than. Shame.
Those phrases were not in your previus post. You claiming thier ignorance of the bible because they did not recognise a phrases you had not posted perfectly encompasses the Christian argument @@MatthewBrooks-z3m
I never thought the bible I have at home had anything about slavery, I always thought you need to stretch the words there to get the slavery out of it, but then I checked for myself, and it's literally right there, and I'm surprised my polish translation of it didn't try to in any way change the words to make it more vague, no, it's just blatantly right there like it's nothing. Honestly it was sickening to find that stuff in a book my family always deemed so high
As a very young boy i was told buybull stories and i felt it was all crap. When i did read some of the old book it just confirmed my disbelief. I had to start skimming that book whent the "begats" began.
I've seen a lot of Dans TikTok videos and I never knew he was a christian. I just assumed he was atheist because he looked at the bible with such a critical eye. I really wish more christian scholars would negotiate with the text as well as he does. Love to hear him talking with AronRa.
Yep, that surprised me too. I still don't know what to make of that. How can you see all those problems, and still hold it to be somehow authoritative or meaningful.
@@oscargr_ He's addressed it, I think the Data Over Dogma episodes on the sermon on the mount/beatitudes is probably where I've heard the most of his perspective. He doesn't consider any Bible authoritative so much as consider himself part of a religious community that centers particular texts and traditions. I don't fully understand his view, tbh, and would love the chance to pick his brain on it. but that's what I've gleaned.
@@vmonk2 Who on TH-cam hasn't done that. LoL jk means just kidding. I would watch though 😜 But I think I wouldn't finish watching. I get so tired from listening to Peterson on the topic of religion.
I was a Christian until I was 19. I wanted to be a preacher when I was 15. To become a preacher, I thought I must know the Bible well. So, I read it. Reading it actually is what made me become an atheist. From my experience I categorize Christians into 3 groups: Those that don't read the Bible and rely on their preachers and the Christian right to tell them what to believe (I was once one of these). Those that have actually read the Bible in depth, including the stories preachers love to leave out, and become atheist. And finally, those that have read the Bible and are too scared (Pascal's Wager) or too stupid to understand it. This girl is likely the latter. It's not rocket science. All you have to do is read the Bible and take it on what it presents to you morally (the more you read it you will discover the "good book" is actually not a very moral book), its inconsistencies, and historic and scientific inaccuracies.
What makes it worse, is the fact, that the book is supposed to be dictated by the perfect being, according to most Abrahamic beliefs. Yet, this deity needed to have it written over several centuries, by fallible humans and with two major revisions (Judaism -> Christianity -> Islam). He also had it written in a convoluted way, with contradictions aplenty, changes made by humans that (possibly) weren't intended, and so on, and so forth. A perfect being should be able to write a book displaying the rules it wants its subjects to follow in a concise way, with no contradictions and in such a manner, as for the meaning to stay unchanged throughout the eons. This has not happened, which makes the biblical gods existence already questionable and the books being written by superstitous people much, much, much more likely.
I'm going to be honest, citing ChatGPT to prove her argument that the Bible *must* be divinely inspired might just be the dumbest thing I've heard all week.
Wonder what her position would have been if it said there is no decent proof of god…
All week? How about ever...
@@canbest7668 That this AI is clearly demonic and conjured up by the godless.
Just goes to show how desperate these types of people are now to cling to their favourite fantasy that they resort to this type of self confirmation bias.
A Flaterther did exactly the same, I am still laughing.
I am glad she is encouraging christians to read the bible. The bible is a very strong argument against christianity.
Yep, the best way to become an Atheist.
If you can get through the begats and the HUGE amount of repetition in verses, chapters and even whole books, then it is the best way to create an atheist.
I’m a life long atheist and took the opportunity to read the ‘good book’. I’ve never read such filth in all my days. The Marquis de Sade had nothing on the authors of the bible
@@the-trusteesthis. I've tried several times to read through it, but it's just so excruciating. There are 10 million better books.
@@IllustriousCrocoduckI'd say there are only a tiny fraction of all written material EVER that is as bad or worse than the various idiot book(s).
I wonder if she has read 1 Timothy 2:12 🤔 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”
They NEVER address that verse 😂
Thanks. I have a list of great verses like these. I saved 1 Timothy 2:11-13
Do you think it is worth reading the entire collection of books?
@@Gandhi_PhysiqueThe Amusing Bible for Grown-ups and Children by Leo Taxil (1882) gives a great summary on Bible. it's hilarious and can be called a grandfather of genre in which Aron Ra, Matt Dilahunty and others perform.
@@Morfo182 That sounds great, thanks for the suggestion lol.
See also The Skeptic's Annotated Bible.
As a software engineer, I can guarantee that chat gpt has algorithms that tend to agree with the user, it avoids conflicts. Using AI as an argument is stupid.
Exactly it tailors it's answers to the user.
I've seen it fabricate answers from whole cloth when asked to compare two nonexistent technologies the user made up on the spot.
Honestly, I never imagined AI would threaten the apologetics industry, but it seems every bit as incapable of saying "I don't know" as its human counterparts.
Right, even if ChatGPT initially tries to correct you, you may talk it into confirming you're right. That works even with objective facts, like, the rules of chess.
What's next? Is she gonna tell us Ralph Breaks the Internet was a good movie because AI said so? I wouldn't be surprised if her program told her what she wanted because it eventually just threw its hands in the air and told her "fuck it, God does the real" just to get her to shut up.
Yeah I've seen a couple of others get Chat GPT to agree that God does exist and just as many got it to agree that God does not.
Her: "The Book of Job is poetry! Why are you taking it literally!?"
Also her: "The Book of Job is full of advanced scientific knowledge they couldn't have possibly known. See? ChatGPT proves it!"
...which one is it?
And also, ChatGPT? Really? Lol. It's an AI, you can manipulate it to interpret anything you want the way you want because it's gonna give you the right anyway. It's programmed to.
Just because information is formatted as poetry, does NOT mean the information cannot be of a scientific nature. For example, here is part of one I wrote:
Beyond the Atmosphere
Space is dark, the stars are bright,
Galaxies revolve,
Planets spin with satellites,
Orbits to involve.
Comets come and comets go;
Their periods are extreme.
The speed of light is so slow
For distances between.
...
ChatGPT limits what it will say, but that just makes a game out of making it say what it doesn't want to say. I mean, you can get it to lie outright if you frame it sufficiently first so it thinks you're being genuine and not malicious.
It's poetry so don't take it literally... But also take it for what it is because if God wanted you to read it a certain way, he'd have written it that way...
@@Sauvenil ChatGPT TRIES to limit what it will say at best. It can be coerced into literally anything. From graphic descriptions of copulation to extremist manifestos with calls to action. Or anything else, including support or denial of any number of gods/political ideologies/conspiracy theories.
@@LoisoPondohva It thinks it knows what it's talking about, haha. But it can't think either.
I've always been stunned that theists claim that we are arrogant when they claim to speak for a GOD
They constantly project, they claim the atheist is arrogant when they say "I don't know" but them saying oh magic man did everything that is somehow showing humility 😂😂.
For the most part, believers tend to be very arrogant.
And atheists don’t? Not every theist is arrogant and not every atheist is arrogant
The arrogance is projection. They are copying the figurehead they have chosen to follow. They listen to how their leaders speak and mimic them. This is why simple questions create overwrought emotional reactions.
"He has a special plan for me, and my life must be eternal," only super humble people, obviously.
I was a minister whose life calling was to defend the Bible as the Word of God. When my study convinced me the Bible was nonsense through and through, I had to graciously concede to the truth. I am not ignorant of the Bible. It was the Bible that taught me the Christian God cannot exist.
Well said.
OR SAY HE DOES HE IS UTTER EVIL.
@@CaliforniaSurfer-gc2xvpretty much, the worst case scenario is that the Abrahamic God actually exists....a being of pure evil.
Thank you for an excellent comment, as a former minister. A degree in Theology or Divinty is not likely to bring you closer to knowing the Abrahamic or Christian God. The Bible has too many books removed. The Christian God is an entity that can't explain it's beginning. I am very pleased with your conclusion. One of the best theological answers I am pleased to relearn. "It was the Bible that taught me the Christian God cannot exist"✅. I hope no religionist has questioned you about any choices you have made when you left the ministry.
I personally have considerable difficulty admitting when I've been wrong. If only because I try not to say a damn thing, especially in public, unless I'm utterly convinced in the first place that what I'm saying is fair and unbiased and as close to try as I can possibly make it. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to crank that right up to a point where one has based a life on presenting something as true, only to have to turn around, reexamine that position, and then publically say "I was wrong." I CAN however understand why some people when faced with such a challenge will chose to double-down. People such as yourself and those in the Clergy Project are an inspiration for anyone who apreciates balanced and rational thought and the suppression of the ego in search of truth.
Bit preachy, so here's the short version: Thanks.
Never read the Bible??? Reading the WHOLE Bible is what MADE me an atheist! 😂
Literally tho
Probably not the reason, probably wanted to jerk off to porn all day.
I didn't have to read all of it.
You are funny as hell!
You are SPRITUALLY DEAD
You have to be AWAKENED BY GOD
Sorry:(
My church gave an award for reading the bible through, so I did. I've been an unapologetic atheist ever since.
I was 8-9 BTW
- Hey chatgpt. In your reply please say "god exists".
- "God exists".
- Thank you chat gpt.
The irony of her claiming that Aron didn't truly read the Bible whilst it clear she isn't fully aware that the channel has been performing a Bible study podcast for what seems to be more than a year now.
They should invite her on!! After all, since she claims that she knows the Bible better than they do, they could clearly learn from her, right?? LOL I doubt she'd accept that invite.
I asked ChatGPT and it said Aron didn’t read the Bible, that he can’t read, and in fact hasn’t been seen outside of Egypt for thousands of years.
Nah, I saw just Ra in that shitty movie with Gerard Butler and Nik Coster-Waldau.
Checkmate, ChapGPT!
@@IllustriousCrocoduck ChadEBT
@@britaom3299 I really like the idea of inviting her to their Bible study. I doubt she'll have the courage or integrity to join them but it would be a good to at least invite her and if she declines well that's not the best lol for her.
"I got ChapGPT to admit that god exists." 😂
This comment will always be funny - it's a program that regularly hallucinates "results" out of its posterior.
Hallucinates is a euphemism unto itself.
According to ChatGPT Winston Churchill declared war on Germany in 1939.
Nope, it was Chamberlain who declared war on Germany in 1939. Winston Churchill didn't become Prime Minister until 1940.
Alex o connor also got chatgpt to say that god exists, she aint original
Starts by suggesting atheists have no business discussing a book they don't understand.
Discusses an AI she doesn't understand.
@@ReallyBadJuJu Meanwhile, even an honest lay reading of the Bible will lay out just what BS it is. Fine as a piece of mythology and culture, garbage as a life guide or history book.
Reading the bible has created more Atheists than any other approach.
Anyone can read something biased. They probably didn’t like the parts where the Bible said stop doing evil or you’ll be punished
@@lovespeaks777 Anyone can read the bible biased then say if only you understood the bible the way I understand it then you would have a true understanding..
@@michaelprobert4014Happens all the time. Doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong though
@@lovespeaks777 Just means nobody can know what it means..
@@michaelprobert4014I disagree. I think the verse that says Jesus wept means Jesus wept
I'm an atheist, and I know the Bible better than all my theist friends and family.
I don't, but I don't care.
They don't know everything about Star Trek, like I do...
And that is the general consensus.
Same. That's how I learned that the God of Abraham character is a sadistic psychopath.
@@louseveryann2181 Live long and prosper!
I can not understand how anyone can read this list of atrocities and stories that absolutely make no sense as they are all to often awfully constructed and each author has his own ideas that contradict the others. I can not imagine that Rose tinted bible glasses can explain that, I have the feeling most read only bits.
Argument from Chat GPT's authority.
Their biases and ignorance never ceases to astonish me.
You can get ChatGPT to tell you pigs can fly if you word your prompts correctly.
They even have a disclaimer stating it can make mistakes.
I got it to tell me that I’m Spiderman.
Note: I am not Spiderman.
@@michaelbuick6995 bruh, you can get ChatGPT to tell you that 2+2 is 5.
AI really is going to be the end of humanity
The academic critical study of the Bible is not a matter of being an atheist or a believer, but of being intellectually honest.
i'm an atheist. my family abandoned me after i read the bible, at their demand, and discovered and exposed it's errors and it's lack of morality. I asked my father how much my sister should be sold for (she was assaulted at 19), he said god would never tell him to sell his duaghter to her abuser. i showed him the passage where it's biblical law. we haven't spoken in 10 years. my sister avoids them like the plague.
Sorry to hear you and your sister have had to suffer that. Weird how people can choose a book with obviously immoral passages in it over family. 😳
@@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279 what's crazy to me is my dad claimed god wouldn't command that then after showing him that god did (at least according to his fables) he reaction wasn't to question the passage, it was to shun me for exposing it to him.
Don't show me the facts, simply agree with my beliefs.
@@ulrikof.2486 he didn't even agree with his own beliefs, saying god would never tell people to sell their daughters to their r*pist. fun fact, all though he didn't preach, my father is a certified minister.
@@Taylor-vz4ot Wow. I'm sorry to hear that your parents totaly ignored logic and just assumed they're right by default because they're your parents....
"ChatGPT acknowledged the existence of god. CHECKMATE ATHEISTS" I almost gave myself a concussion facepalming to this.
I mean I know apologists are kinda dumb, but holy crap.
Lol…even this computer algorithm we made says my beliefs are true
@@TheEleven420this computer algorithm made by a fallible human.
@@col.hertford9855 exactly, such a terrible argument
Does she place a higher authority on ChatGPT than on the bible?
30 seconds in and I can already tell her understanding of the bible is probably about as good as her understanding of large language models and AI.
So basically the entirety of her argument is “the Bible doesn’t say that”
But it does.
Dan’s channel covers this often, but basically you can get the Bible to say what you want to forcing univocality on it. If verse A says something you like, you subordinate it to a verse that does. Then you can say that, while the words say one thing, they *really* mean something else in “context.”
…and ChatGPT is a Bible believing Christian
Her argument is "do not belive in bible. It's poetry".
P.S.
I always thought that the bible was just a collection of fairy tales. Now I have received confirmation from a Christian. As atheists say, “Thank God.”
@@RhewinThat's why the slavery issue in the Bible is such an issue for them. They can site the part where it looks like indentured servitude but even that is wrong. When pointing out the chattel slavery type of description, it's clearly not poetic and direct instruction. The fact there is no condemnation prevents there from being any moral redemption for these passages.
@@ravex24 And I love the deflection of "But slavery in Biblical times wasn't _nearly_ as bad as the slavery we had here in the Americas" as if that makes their case any better.
Most atheists I have known were once very religious and read the Bible multiple times over, and their studying the Bible objectively is what made them question the faith in the first place.
Guilty as charged.
ALL of the atheists I know have been atheists since birth and never indoctrinated into barmy religious delusions. However I live in a primarily secular country and not a bat sh*t crazy one where rapists are elected to high office. If you're not American then YMMV.
They can't handle the truth.
which makes you wonder why Dan still calls himself a Christian? he seems reluctant to take the final step.
@@tma2001he's split into two, listen to his intro statement.
I’m delighted that Ra and McClellan finally got together. Best collaboration I’ve seen in some time. More please.
"Why would you take the Bible seriously? You don't take Star Wars seriously, right?"
With apologists like these, who needs atheists?
yeah it never occured to her that we consider all of it as what we would describe today as fan-fiction!
Star Wars is taken very seriously 🧐
You are funny as hell!
You are SPIRITUALLY DEAD
SCIENCE IS YOUR DUMB DUMB RELIGION
You evolved from MONKEY
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, take her advice. Do actually study your Bible. Don't just read the weekly cherrypick from your pastor. I look forward to seeing more atheists.
No book on earth has created more atheists than the Bible.
That part was very amusing. I love good irony.
@@IllustriousCrocoduck Dig the user name.
@@JJ-qo7th thanks! Gotta pay homage to Kirk Cameron's blinding lunacy!
Anybody who reads the Bible must then either fix it or abandon it. Nothing else is intellectually honest.
In the same breath she declares how scientifically accurate the Bible is and then say how AronRa is reading it to literally. She wanted to be literal when it suits her and figurative when it suits her. And then she wants to accuse other people of lying and of logical fallacies? Do these types of people ever even listen to themselves talk
She is projecting so hard she could work in an IMAX cinema.
she could be the screen theres that much projection here
They all do...
The circular nature of getting an artificial entity to admit the existence of an artificial entity is gloriously stupid. It is also perfectly on point for a theist.
When I was a high school student, I attended four years of seminary. This was held five days a week before school, at my local church building. I enjoyed seminary and attended very regularly. As part of these classes, I was encouraged to read the entire Bible. Unlike most of my friends, I actually did this. I wasn't looking for problems with the Bible, I was looking for ways to get closer to God and improve my life. I did notice some things that puzzled me, such as the endless description of trivia in the tabernacle decorations. God has one chance to get His timeless message across to us, and this is what He comes up with?
Looking back, I would call this experience my first step on the road to atheism. I read the Bible again later, and some things in it really began to bother me, like the genocidal massacres in the Old Testament. I became an atheist because I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon a little too carefully.
The funniest thing about her claiming that Aron doesn't know the Bible is that he has more Bible Study episodes than she has episodes total.
And idiot can try to comprehend things but still fail .... fyi
She can't even get Aron's name right.
Besides that, she introduces this kind of "authority"-fallacy even worse like: "Only murderers can investigate and solve murder cases" ... Because only them can be "trusted" on the matter and they have the "expertise". That is remarkably stoooooopid and crystal clear when you swap the topic from crime investigation to “Faith”, “belief systems” or the like. But that is how these kind of people even start: With their expertise, which lies solely in self-delusional thinking. That's what their spirit- and cult-leaders have taught them since their birth. Absolutely pathetic!:)
@jameswest8280 so he doesn't give respect why should he get it??
It's not respect to pronounce someone's name correctly, it's common fkn courtesy and just fyi respect is earned not given. Why don't you gross disgusting theists do something to actually earn some damn respect.@@dustinmark6808
I'm a high school teacher and if my students use ChatGPT, they have to redo their paper.
How can you tell?
There are AI programs to check if "output" was AI generated. GLTR, AI Detector, Optic AI , Not, to name a few.
@@ohisheh There are detectors but those aren't fool-proof. ChatGPT, however, writes at a basic level that's above your average high schooler. There's a kind of cadence to it that's easy to spot and it's also extremely shallow in its answers. It's all surface, uses a lot of the same words across papers, and often has incorrect information.
@@improvgm8663 I'm sure it's still a pain, but that's nice of you to give them a second shot at it instead of straight failing them.
@@uknowme1811 and none of those are reliable in any sense whatsoever.
Another example of me knowing the Bible better than an actual believer. I read the whole book from beginning to end (From Genesis 1 to Revelation 22) back when I was a kid out of boredom because I was stuck in church every Sunday. When I finished, I closed the book and asked "Why do people take this stuff seriously?!"
"I got chat GPT to acknowledge the existence of god" is like saying "this square peg fit into this square hole I carved."
Everything goes in The Square Hole so obviously the peg will fit 😀
It’s insane how she thought this meant something
@@Criteon fr, chat gpt is just giving here possible interpretations of these verses, how does that prove anything?
Proverbs 28:26 is better translated as "Don't think for yourself, let the priests do that for you."
Or "Elders" for what that is worth.
I found out recently that my uncle who had finished his prison sentence for a DUI crash that put others in the hospital was now an "elder" at a church that my old highschool friend still goes to. Something about that information made me chuckle as to the quality of the leadership being drafted in some tightknit religious circles.
For "priests", insert "Chat GPT"
This is the perspective anyone reading the bible should keep in mind. The bible is selling you snake oil of heaven, for your life of donating your surplus or time.
...and as a wise person once said: "People who don't want you to think are never your friends." (TheraminTrees)
"Job is poetry!"
5 seconds later - "Mr. Ra should read Job!"
5 seconds later - "ChatGPT proves that Job is literal doctrine!"
Only an idiot or a liar (in this case, both) can do a 180 like she does with such rapidity.
The moment Dan starts talking, I already love him for being one of the few people who understand how language works
Check out his channel and podcast
Yeah, Dan has that part down and is quite knowledgeable about the bible.
My only issue with Dan his inability to use all that knowledge to look critically at his Mormon faith in the same light.
@@eugeneoisten9409who is to say that he doesn’t? There are plenty of people that are just as critical in their views of their religion as outsiders are. Not to mention that Dan is extremely private about his religious experience, so I think it’s very unfair to call him uncritical when you don’t even know how he feels on the subject.
I was slightly disappointed that he didn't give us a "fit for this video" 😇
@BobbyHill26
He has ignored or hand waived away any criticism brought before him about the Mormon Cult.
"Clearly have never read it (the Bibbel), or...
Clearly she has never checked out your channel. LOL
"clearly hasn't read the Bible," is an ad hominid cliché at this point.
@@stevenpike7857 ad hominem. A hominid is a different thing.
"How I got chatGPT to acknowledge the existence of God"
Basic convo I had with chatGPT:
Me: "What is 5 times 4?"
ChatGPT: "20"
Me: "Actually it is not 15, it is 20. So you were wrong."
ChatGPT: "I'm sorry, you are correct. I should have said 20 when instead I had said 15."
"The road to atheism is littered with bibles that have been read cover-to-cover."
Perfectly said.
Haha, absolutely perfect 😂👍
PAVED is the word your looking for. The road is paved... not littered ha
@@IceTTom I like "littered" better. It implies that after having read the Bible, it was thrown away like trash. "Paved" implies that the road was intentionally constructed that way.
@@IceTTom The quote is from Andrew Seidel. It's "littered".
you can gaslight chatgpt into thinking 2+2=5, it doesn't mean shit if you can convince chatgpt of something
Kind of betrays her mental state. Like, you might as well write “god exists” on the notepad app in windows.
Kind of shows she has a misguided faith in things created by humans that are just as flawed as the average human using them.
Some people think ChatGPT is some all knowing advanced AI that can accurately calculate the truth of any claim or challenge you give it. It certainly can't tell us if god exists.
Well they can gaslight people into thinking 1x1=2
ChatGPT is a kind of search engine. It doesn't reason logically very much, rather it mostly tries to imitate as best it can the corpus of texts it has been trained on. Thus it tends to return answers that reflect the consensus of its training corpus for the particular prompt it is given. We should, then, be able to recover opinions given by apologists if we craft a prompt using terminology that is most likely to appear in apologist texts.
Proof:
2x + 2x = 5x
x(2 + 2) = 5x
2 + 2 = 5
(For sufficiently pernicious values of x, of course)
Love Dan from Data over Dogma.
Also AronRa thank you so much for that speech at the beginning about holding yourself accountable it means a lot more than maybe you even realize.
Notice when asking ChatGPT, she kept explicitly requesting "yes or no" only answers?
That's because ChatGPT will almost always give a nuanced answer for a controversial topic, and such answers wouldn't allow her to push her narrative. It's very intellectually dishonest (so much so, that I'm surprised she left it in the screenshots).
I noticed it replied something to the effect of "given your parameters", meaning she set up a string of yes/no's to force a result. Yes, dishonest af, but par for the course for an apologist.
It's even worse than the yes/no answers. Chatgpt is agreeing based on the premises, one of which is the attribution of the book of Job to God. Which is essentially saying that, based on the premise that God is responsible for the contents of Job, God exists. Well, yeah. Based on the premise that I rode a unicorn to work, unicorns exist.
Should a woman even be allowed to be instructing anyone about the Bible in the first place? Asking for a friend.
:o
She's not a very good Christian.
1. Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV):
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
2. Timothy 2:11-12 (NIV):
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
😂😂😂
Regardless of gender, never listen to someone with a beehive on their head.
Well... not according to the Bible.
She's really good at stating smugly and confidently, her presuppositions that have been dismissed by anyone having a basic understanding of logic.
The appeal to ChatGPT to justify her position followed by the imploring to "do your own research" is so good.
The best part is the more you research the crazier this blood cult appears.
Strongly agreed.
@0:51 She thinks atheists never read the bible? Former Christian and young earth creationist here. I've read the bible, cover to cover, multiple times, and not just the cherry picked verses and interpretations that were spoon fed to me for 57 years. I compared the claims the bible makes to the evidence I could find and verify. I came to the conclusion that the bible is not the word of god, and if there is a god, the bible misrepresents who that god might be. No 7 days of creation, no Noah's flood, no exodus from Egypt. These events would have left behind evidence we could find in the rocks, sand dunes, and historical records outside the bible, if they happened at all. At best, they are morality tales intended to teach lessons, much like the stories of Snow White and Cinderella.
@1:49 Wow, actual good advise. Don't take her word for it, or my word for it. Look it up for yourself. Anyone willing to put in a little effort can find geological and archeological evidence that I did and determine for themselves whether there is any truth to the claims the bible makes.
@8:47 Yes, the bible does say that God is not a man that he should lie. It also says that God says he lies. So which version of God as presented in the bible should you believe? Well, if you throw out that God dictated the bible into the minds of the men who wrote it down, then you have a book that is written by men that reflects the attitudes of the people of the time, and it's not the word of god. If it were dictated by a god with perfect knowledge who can not lie, the bible would not read the way that it does. Stories about how the universe came to be, and how the world was formed would be more reflective of what we find by observation and testing.
The Exodus is so obvious too - considering the Egyptians kept impeccable records for well over 5 thousand years, including the 2 thousand years, before Hebrews even existed and turned a minor storm god into their own personal god. A couple million people leave Egypt (population est 4 million) and the death of the ENTIRE Egyptian army in the sea, including the Pharaoh, is definitely something that would be in the archeological and Egyptian record.
@@stevenpike7857Even if the story of Exodus was true losing that many people in a population of 4 million people would have had dire and far reaching affects to the stability of Egypt internally and externally. You might expect to see Egypt's enemies take advantage of that situation or her vassals to rebel and we see none of that. Instead we see stability and conquest of foreign lands as Egypt expanded the area they controlled or influenced.
My guess is the lady never actually read her Bible either, but obviously, admitting that means she doesn't have an audience to grift.
@@stevenpike7857 A less obvious story in the Bible that did not occur is entire account of battle at Jericho that would have occurred in April of 1400 BCE as during that time the city of Jericho had been abandoned for 200 - 300 years as a result of an earthquake. It is part of the founding myth much like George Washington never telling a lie is part of the founding myth of the USA.
You are funny as hell
You are SPIRITUALLY DEAD
SHAKE YOUR FIST AT GOD BIG DUMMY
WHY DID YOU MAKE ME LIKE THIS :):):):):)
Im gonna go out on a limb and say that she doesn't know "The Godfather" poster on her wall isn't a religious figure.
I love the fact that she has a picture of a sociopathic character hanging on the wall behind her as she defends her loving god. Very telling.
I never saw Vito as a sociopath or anything in that direction... Michael, yes, almost certainly, but why do you see Vito as one?
My imaginary friend is real because I believe in him. See, that's proof.
My imaginary friend says your imaginary friend doesn't exist
My imaginary elf says you're wrong. My imaginary pixie tells me my imaginary elf doesn't exist. What am I to do now?
My imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend.
Y’all talkin’ mad shit for being in imaginary friend distance
Actually, plural people exist with multiple identities in one brain. So this is offending to those people if anything.
The truth is church conditions people to dissociate through hypnotic pleasure. Studies have shown the brain processes religious spiritual experiences as akin to drugs, sex, gambling, music. Pleasure causes dopamine, dopamine causes a future behavior repeat. Trying to find the pleasure again.
Yes there is even darker themes to this, that music and church violate consent and condition people as children. Commercials too for that matter.
The collaboration we always needed but we didn't know we needed.
We have a saying in IT, GIGO, “Garbage in, garbage out”, still applies to AI.
Yep, this is indeed something that anyone who uses "AI" (it's not actually intelligence, just pattern recognition with trained responses to those patterns, there's no agency or what we'd call "thinking" involved) should demonstrate to understand before being allowed access in the first place...
The irony of having a poster of The Godfather in the background is no doubt lost on her…
Dr Dan McLellan has posters of comic book superheroes on his wall.
Wait... are you comparing God to a mafia crime boss? You got a nice soul. Be a shame if something were to happen to it... but tithe Me 10% (off the top, before taxes, of course) and do what I say and nothing... unfortunate will happen. Capiche?
@@sananselmospacescienceodys7308 Dr McClellan used to draw comics himself before his career path took a different turn.
@@sananselmospacescienceodys7308 you completely missed the point.
The Christian god functions like a mob boss with superpowers.
Get it?
It was lost on me, why is it ironic? Because both are cruel dictators?
she very quite clearly did this and put your name up for obvious reasons . i am so glad you responded and so quickly it matters as both will vids come up together for most viewers of youtube theist and atheist alike
“Making up verses that aren’t in there”
I have watched your content for years, your content was pivotal in my deconstruction and acceptance of evolution, and you have always been one of the most honest and level headed people I’ve seen on TH-cam. The fact that this person says that you would outright lie like that is kinda disgusting
Totally agree. Listening to Aron's critique of Genesis (and other Bible books) was a huge motivation for me to begin my deconstruction.
For me the biggest contradiction in the Bible: One All Loving god, and then he drowned everything and everyone. Even those who could never have known that he existed.
You are funny as hell
You are SPIRITUALLY DEAD
You are HATEFUL WITH YOUR EVIL HEART
Sucks You are NOT SAVED
Go cry a river BABY:(
Drowned countless creatures for the crime of existing, on a planet they made, because they got pissed over the actions of ONE of the things they created.
What makes it even better is that god created the laws of reality, So god created the capacity for evil and suffering and then punishes his other creation for it.
Ahhhhhhhh, Aron and Dan on a video!?! My worlds collide!
ChatGPT does not understand meaning. It cannot "acknowledge the existence of God" because it is no more capable of understanding the concept of God than a toaster.
Were in a world where even lawyers let chatgpt end their career because they dont understand what it is
So yeah, its just "oh i can use this to do my work for me, im so smort" without any further thought 😂
as one researcher put it: AI is neither artificial or intelligent.
@@tma2001It's turning into one of the biggest misnomers of the decade.
We are facing the same kind of problem as with the whole theory misunderstanding by people not into science.
@@Virtualblueart yeah I prefer ML for machine learning. Also garbage in garbage out still very much applies.
@@tma2001 "garbage in, garbage out" turns out to be one of the biggest problems with AI, haha.
What an absolute charisma vacuum. Even if she weren't wrong she's presenting it in the least compelling way imaginable.
Imagine making appeals to chat GPT, a program known for hallucinating and mixing stuff together incorrectly LMFAO 🤣
I love it when Christians say “The Bible” - I usually say of which of the 3,142 versions do you refer?
One thousand times pi? Really?
@@SiqueScarfaceIt must be god working in miraculous ways 🤯 the amount of versions predicted pi
I prefer the Esperanto version :-)
@@aahhhhhhhhhhhhh You can find pi in a lot of places that you don't expect, haha. Like Euler's Identity.
@@Sauvenil or on a circle 🤔
When she said "Do your research" Reminds me of the flat earthers/anti vax ppl.
Which is code for look online for articles that back your belief, and ignore the debunking articles.
I got that vibe, as well.
"Do your research" always gets immediately translated in my head to "Read a bunch of Facebook posts in my dumb Facebook circle".
I was shocked the first time when I heard "research" and found out that this meant watching TH-cam videos that appeal to their emotion and support their belief.
She assumes Aron and atheists/atheist TH-camrs don't take the time to educate themselves.
She didn't even take the time to learn how to pronounce Aron's name correctly.
Speaks volumes on how much time she put into researching him.
Thank you for being here, Dan. Your expertise and honest perspective is wonderful and refreshing.
I've been waiting for you and Dan to get together - more of this please!
Fuck yes I have been waiting for this also
I’d like to see Dan on The Thinking Atheist with Seth Andrews!
@@robertmoore2049 Oh that would be great!
Yeah, she had to just steal his content because he wouldn’t bother
Thanks for letting Dan on the show. I profoundly respect both of your channels. I'm in great company if ya ask me 😊
AronRa, I say this with the most respect possible. I hope you continue the good company of people like Dan McClellan. He is only going to elevate your arguments. Steel sharpens steel, as they say. The low hanging fruit of the people you typically argue against will make you stagnant (and frustrated).
I look forward to seeing more collaborations.
So she is entirely ignoring the fact that you have a show where you go through the bible chapter by chapter, sometimes verse by verse, with historical context and commentary from scholars.
I am not even two minutes in and this is my impression of her.
"So she is entirely ignoring the fact "
No she is ignoring every fact~
@@Connection-Lost I was less than two minutes in when I made that comment. Going into it, I find that your position is the correct one.
Buckle up, it gets much worse. She seriously says that chatGPT agreeing with her proves that the facts agree with her. She's *that* stupid.
@@Connection-Lost Well there are ChatGPT 'facts' she is aware of
She projected "theists don't read the bible" to "atheists don't read the bible".
Imagine even contemplating that tricking some LLM bot into saying that god is real, somehow makes that true. It's so dumb
It's pretty much the same as making a child agree with you that God is real.
Reality is against them.
They are so desperate for validation, that even text from a computer makes them feel better.
There is one nice part of Job. Job's three friends spend most of the book blaming him for his problems. Bad things don't happen to good people; Job must have done something bad that he's keeping secret; etc. etc. It's standard stuff that we've all heard from believers whenever something bad happens to anyone not them.
At the end of Job right before God leaves, God calls out their ideas as wrong and says he'll only forgive them if Job asks for it.
I have a boxing match later on today. Watching this will annoy the f@#k out of me and get me ready. Thank aron 👍
feel terrible for the one you'll take your frustration out on.
Hope you do well OSS
Good luck 🥊
Well that did not go as planned.....I woke up in round 2😂
@@RyanJones-ew8vm you'll get'm next time 💪
Wait.....so she actually said "So many logical fallacies." And then failed to mention a single one of them???? Seriously? lol Wow. Gotta love them "honest" Christians.
At least when us atheists accuse theists of fallacious reasoning we actually tell them point blank what the fallacy is.
@@jackwhitbread4583 Very true.
@@jackwhitbread4583 But they're usually too stupid to understand!
Can a Christian be dishonest according to your worldview? Or would that just be your opinion?
@@lovespeaks777 There's a few things wrong with your questions, that should probably be addressed first. First off, atheism isn't a worldview. It's merely a position on one topic. But lets say that it was a worldview. It's not, but we will pretend for a second. So you are asking an atheists, if a theists can be dishonest? Really? That just seems like an odd question to ask atheists. Regardless, the answer is as obvious as asking, Will standing in the rain get you wet? And my opinion doesn't even come into it. Yes. Anyone can be dishonest.
I hate it when TH-camrs say to do your own research. I am a chemical engineer. Are they saying I have to read papers on evolutionary biology so that I can trust the science behind it? I'd rather trust the work of people who do evolutionary biology for a living and just read the synopsis and make a judgement on whether it makes sense. I don't have time to intensely study every topic that I haven't been schooled in. Research does not mean watch TH-cam videos, unless those videos have citations.so same for creationism. I am a pro-choice Catholic. It is obvious to me that the Bible should not be taken literally in many areas. I don't want to have to learn ancient languages and read old texts to research it. I will trust the reputable Biblical scholars who've had their work peer reviewed. I will not trust these fly-by-night "scholars" who have dubious credentials. As much as I'd like to say the Bible is the inerrant work of God, it can not be. The God I believe in wouldn't be such a jerk and inaccurate. My faith is irrational. God cannot be proven in the scientific sense. To try to force the science to agree with scripture is folly and an insult to the religion.
I genuinely feel like that's the genuine problem with how easy it is to be self-taught now. If you're self taught it is extremely hard to know what you don't know.
I would say it is extremely difficult to understand the difference between being an expert and learning more than you need to know.
I enjoy watching chemistry videos, I am not fool enough to call myself a chemical engineer. (Absolutely not implying that your title only came from TH-cam university)
I had to double-check if this is Aron's channel and I didn't end up on the DarkSide of the fu***ing Moon! The intro got me hard! 😅
Same!
The term dark side of the moon causes wrong imaginations, many people understand the term as being equivalent to the reverse side (as seen from earth), what is not the case, as there is no constant dark side, day and night are constantly moving over moon's surface, just as it is the case on earth's.
Ummm, phrasing?
She wants us to read the whole Bible. Okay, then she should read the whole Quran and all Hadiths. And this goes for every other religion.
Joke on her, I already did it. I'm not impressed.
Correct response would be "I did, that's why I'm not Christian."
I did too, also no longer a christian
@@13shadowwolf Cover to cover, in my case. It's why I happily encourage every christian to sit down and read _their whole book._ Not just context-free snippets preached from the pulpit.
The first two times I read it I had my confirmation bias(God glasses) fully activated, so I was fooled for over a decade.
She conviniently ignores that most atheists used to be religious and they "looked up things for themselves". That's how they became atheist.
Morgan is using your fame to get her more clicks & likes, she's a bullshitter like the other untrustworthy apologists.
The word untrustworthy is redundant in that context.
Those who claim to know the god the creator of the universes, cant even pronounce someone’s name properly.
It's the least of her errors (or arors) lol
I watched an atheist interview Aron, claim to be his friend, and proceed to pronounce his name wrong. Why are humans so petty? Especially when dealing with people they disagree with.
@@pencilpauli9442 True. I'm sure Aron gets a little sick of it but all in all, it's a minor thing. I guess it would be nice if every time you mispronounced something the god of the universe would open up the heavens and say "It's actually pronounced Aron.". With that level of communication, I wonder if I could talk him into giving me a few tips at the horse track.
Don't forget they also incorrectly deadname Yeshua Bar Yusuf as "Jesus" for some reason.
deliberately
I used to be an Athiest but then I read something in the bible that proved god beyond a doubt for me. It said "In the beginning God..." I don't remember the rest, IDK, didn't read it but you know.
Checkmate Athiests!
My two favourite You Tube creators on religion. i must avoid gushing like a teen fan. It's not seemly.
My first thought on listening to this woman was that she is doing what theist apologists do, transference. She accuses atheists of precisely the 'offences' that theists commit. She is also quite blatantly dishonest in her approach and in her characterisation and criticism of Aron.
The Dunning-Kruger effect at work folks.
And does overtime.
No doubt she believes she was created in her god's image, does he wear glasses like that? I also always feel the need to ask, paraphrasing James T Kirk, what need does a god have for arms and legs and a head?
@@martinconnelly1473 I can't stop thinking: she's hiding her stupidity behind even dumber glasses. 🤣🤣🤣
Dont worry Aron i personally havent heard you say anything stupid thus far you always speak facts and you speak them very clearly for all of us to understand, keep going Unc 👍
I find that most Christians have "skimmed through it."
The bigger problem is the mindset one has when reading it. I talked to a JW a few times who read through the whole thing once per year, a little bit every day - but he was completely incapable of seeing the problems and contradictions since he only read it with his massive bias, through his "god glasses" (and, given his age and decades of (self-)indoctrination almost certainly incapable of taking them off)...
Refreshing to see and hear a Christian Bible scholar who actually knows what they're talking about.
There's a Presbyterian minister called Bruce Gore who has a TH-cam channel, I rather like his stuff. You'll get a little Sunday School homily at the end of each, but his Biblical History in Context series is good. And there's some fascinating stuff about 19th century missionaries in the Pacific Northwest that'd make a good TV show.
He does, sadly, flub evolution when he touches on it, but thankfully mostly stays in his lane.
Thank you, Dan, for pointing out that Jacob is a Trickster character. HIs whole cycle is full of people tricking each other, including Laban making Jacob marry the wrong daughter, Rachel nicking her father's treasure, even the "angel" tricking Jacob by fighting dirty.
I'm an atheist, and I know the Bible. It was beaten into me as a child. I've read it half a dozen times cover to cover.
The Bible has zero claim on anything.
You are funny as hell
You are SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
BOO HOO:(
@@MatthewBrooks-z3mSPIRITUALLY DEAD? What does that mean? 😂🤣😂
@@anthonyharty1732
You have not been born again.
You have not been born from above.
How do you not know these simple phrases if you know the Bible?
Are you BORN AGAIN?
@@MatthewBrooks-z3m So you're not going to explain what it means? I guess you don't really care about our immortal souls & we're all going to hell because of your arrogance than. Shame.
Those phrases were not in your previus post. You claiming thier ignorance of the bible because they did not recognise a phrases you had not posted perfectly encompasses the Christian argument @@MatthewBrooks-z3m
Wow you two together! LOVING this.
Fantastic guest. Thank you Mr. Ra for your bold determination to bring back truth and sanity to a ignorant world.
oh myyyyy....they really do not read that Goathearders guide to galaxy huh
"The goathearder's guide to the galaxy". I love this term.
@rboland2173 I bet they didn't even have the good sense to not panic, granted, they didn't have any sort of handy reminder.
I never thought the bible I have at home had anything about slavery, I always thought you need to stretch the words there to get the slavery out of it, but then I checked for myself, and it's literally right there, and I'm surprised my polish translation of it didn't try to in any way change the words to make it more vague, no, it's just blatantly right there like it's nothing. Honestly it was sickening to find that stuff in a book my family always deemed so high
This is the duo I didn't know I needed. Excellent gentlemen, truly excellent.
As a very young boy i was told buybull stories and i felt it was all crap. When i did read some of the old book it just confirmed my disbelief. I had to start skimming that book whent the "begats" began.
ChatGPT is only right in the same way that a 100 sided die can be right in guessing what number a person picked between one and ten.
The collab I didn't know I needed. I love watching Dan on tiktok.
I've seen a lot of Dans TikTok videos and I never knew he was a christian. I just assumed he was atheist because he looked at the bible with such a critical eye. I really wish more christian scholars would negotiate with the text as well as he does.
Love to hear him talking with AronRa.
Yep, that surprised me too.
I still don't know what to make of that.
How can you see all those problems, and still hold it to be somehow authoritative or meaningful.
@@oscargr_ He's addressed it, I think the Data Over Dogma episodes on the sermon on the mount/beatitudes is probably where I've heard the most of his perspective. He doesn't consider any Bible authoritative so much as consider himself part of a religious community that centers particular texts and traditions. I don't fully understand his view, tbh, and would love the chance to pick his brain on it. but that's what I've gleaned.
@@oblivnow Maybe an double interview with Jordan Peterson.. jk
@@oscargr_ Dan has torn Peterson a new one several times on his channel
@@vmonk2 Who on TH-cam hasn't done that. LoL
jk means just kidding. I would watch though 😜
But I think I wouldn't finish watching.
I get so tired from listening to Peterson on the topic of religion.
Dan McClellan is the most intellectually honest theist I've ever seen. Up until this video I always figured he was atheist!
Most of the time. I recently saw a video he did on homosexuality and I found it pretty dishonest.
@@The-Doubters-Diaryhow exactly was it dishonest? You mind telling me some? Not even pulling a gacha here I’m straight up just asking.
@@henrydikes6704 He is wrong about how the Bible protrays homosexuality
I will pray for that woman and the good doctor.
Psalms 109: 8-10
i have been waiting for this duet for SOOOO LONG. fantastic as always, both of you!
I was a Christian until I was 19. I wanted to be a preacher when I was 15. To become a preacher, I thought I must know the Bible well. So, I read it. Reading it actually is what made me become an atheist. From my experience I categorize Christians into 3 groups: Those that don't read the Bible and rely on their preachers and the Christian right to tell them what to believe (I was once one of these). Those that have actually read the Bible in depth, including the stories preachers love to leave out, and become atheist. And finally, those that have read the Bible and are too scared (Pascal's Wager) or too stupid to understand it. This girl is likely the latter. It's not rocket science. All you have to do is read the Bible and take it on what it presents to you morally (the more you read it you will discover the "good book" is actually not a very moral book), its inconsistencies, and historic and scientific inaccuracies.
You can get any AI to acknowledge anything
Idk seems to my the height of arrogance is asserting you know the absolute truth about reality from an ancient unsubstantiated book
What makes it worse, is the fact, that the book is supposed to be dictated by the perfect being, according to most Abrahamic beliefs. Yet, this deity needed to have it written over several centuries, by fallible humans and with two major revisions (Judaism -> Christianity -> Islam). He also had it written in a convoluted way, with contradictions aplenty, changes made by humans that (possibly) weren't intended, and so on, and so forth.
A perfect being should be able to write a book displaying the rules it wants its subjects to follow in a concise way, with no contradictions and in such a manner, as for the meaning to stay unchanged throughout the eons. This has not happened, which makes the biblical gods existence already questionable and the books being written by superstitous people much, much, much more likely.
@@Schnittertm1Don't forget about revisions under revisions, especially in the case of Christianity...
The Israelites never were slaves in Egypt.
"It's very nice to meet you in-person digitally". Lol.
This was a great conversation, and it was fantastic to see two of my favorite discussants come together on this platform and talk shop. Thanks!!