I don't book old ships, but I think most of these ships are given a thorough makeover! Folks are screaming that they want smaller ships, so I'm pretty sure the old ships are going to stay around a long time!
Our favorite ship is 28 years old. We've been cruising on it for 17 years and would gladly do so in perpetuity as the crew has been quite stable over those years and for us the crew makes the ship.
Agreed, we were on the Icon last summer and on the little Jewel of the seas over New Year’s. We loved them both for different reasons. Zero issues with either ship.
In the 1980s, I sailed on a ship built in 1932. She was at least 48 years old. She had no problems during the cruise. One thing I observed was that whenever they used the ropes, they immediately painted the holes on the ship where the ropes went. They weren't going to allow any rust to start up. Ships can last well past 30 years. What is needed is good, preventive maintenance and replacement of parts. When it comes to passenger cabins, they could use a long dry dock period to replace them all with brand new cabins. Cabins in today's cruise ships are modular, so it would be easy to replace them. This could be done at the 25 - or 30-year mark. They could rebuild or replace engines having severe, constant problems at the same time. Furnishings from the old cabins could be sold, and the metal sold for scrap. That money could be applied to the cost of the brand new cabins.
Icon of the Seas has had propulsion problems and that's a brand new ship, also the older ships have had many many refits since they were first constructed
Hi Don and all - we are on Royal's oldest and smallest ship, Grandeur of the Seas and it's showing some age but it's producing a great 9 day cruise. The news from the top tier event is that the plan is to run her another 5 years. They have upgraded internal systems and will refresh the interior spaces somewhat over the rest of Grandeur's life. This will give the company time to move forward with Project Discovery. Feel free to check out the ship condition as we begin to post Granduer content next week on our TH-cam channel!
As for USB plugs. Take a 4 or 6 port USB adapter and Power Packs. Charge the packs during the day and charge your phone on your night stand at night. Everything has a ‘work a round’ :-D
We love the older ships. Cruises are calmer and more space per person. We spent 24 days on the Volendam to Iceland and lots more and we really loved it. You can keep the mega ships.
We mostly go on Grandeur OTS or Vision OTS. We like the smaller ‘friendlier’ ships. Waiting for more news about the ‘Discovery’ class ships for RCL. As for “break downs”. We are retired so that is part of the adventure. :-)
something to think about... they built Spirit Class and Fantasy Class ship very well... they are one tough ship and you look at them they don't break down as much as the newer ships. I think older sailers still like them and the ships still stay fully booked
Don, I’ve been on Carnival Spirit 6 times, it’s a perfect class and it’s a lot of people favorite. The Spirit class ships always sell out. Those are great ships, so glad that carnival is keeping Spirit.
Hi Don. I will be sailing on the Sunshine and it is an older ship. I am ok with it. It is in Dry dock right now. I can not wait to see what changes they are doing.
I was on the Carnival Legend In November 2024 and it was one of the best maintained and cleanest ship I had ever been on. It was stunning. I have been on the Vista, Panorama in the past 5 years and they were not near the condition of the legend and it was built in 2001. Either way they are defiantly keeping them up.
Part of the problem is that these cruise lines keep wanting to build bigger & bigger ships that have water parks, roller coasters & go carts with a bunch of up charge dining and at the same time still have 4k to 5k passengers on them. Well a lot of these cruise ports either don’t want that, can’t support a ship of that size or both so they have to keep theses smaller older ships that to do those itineraries. I think instead of just focusing on building resorts at sea they need to take an auto industry approach to building new ships which is build for different categories. Not everyone wants to be on the biggest ship or cares if there’s a roller coaster or not. However they do care about having modern updates without feeling like they are getting the brown end of the stick.
We just went on a 20 year old ship, and everything worked okay, and we enjoyed it. The issue we had was with outlets. We had no USBs and only two outlets. I probably would not book again because we struggled with having enough outlets.
We usually book the older ships since they are cheaper as they don't have all the latest family fun features. Also, they tend to be smaller than the mega ships, which means less port restrictions.
NCL Spirit went into service in 1998, so is now 26 years old. NCL last refurbished her in 2020 and is a gorgeous ship. I would happily sail on her again.
That one of the reasons why I'm taking one more cruise with Carnival (Jubilee) and switch up how my family take vacations. We're also tired of going to the same places (We sail out of Galveston). We like sailing on large ships.
These old ships are needed because they are usually smaller than the new ones. I read sometime ago that RCI was considering building new small ships so they can get to some ports where new ships can't get to.
One possible reason to keep an old ship going is their relative mechanical simplicity compared to all of the modern propulsion systems and their pollution controls, alternative fuels, parts availability and so on. Also, if you can eek out 10 more years from a ship for $150 million, that is a bargain compared to the billion-plus dollar cost of a new ship. Also, cruise lines can offer lower price fares on the old ships to attract more new cruisers and keep the veteran cruisers happy too.
I've cruised on the Legend, Pride, and Celebration. So two of the smallest and the biggest in Carnival's fleet. I love the small ships. I don't mind the gaudy decor and smaller spaces. I like the intimacy of these spaces. The new ship on a ship concept isn't my thing. The Celebration was a good ship but give me a small ship any day of the week.
yep, we were on the Carnival Dream in December. It's birth date was in 2009, refurbed in 2012, and was last in dry dock in 2017. It showed its age everywhere: rust, chunks of wood missting from cabinets, cracks, peeling paint, and more. We were disappointed in the condition. Won't go on their older ships anymore. New or nothing
Well Carnival scrapped several Fantasy Class ships during the pandemic. Regarding the Spirit Class ships, they have a few home ports where only the smaller ships can fit (like the Spirit Class)…there’s bridges the ships have to go under so the newer, bigger ships can’t fit. If they retire the older smaller ships how can they service the home ports with low bridge clearance?
Touchy subject for me. It's not how many refurbishments these companies keep doing, but the fact of why can't they continue to build mid-sized ships like the NCL Pearl or Carnival Fantasy (which no longer exists). I understand the trend is complete vacations on these ships for family crowds, but people like myself do get old and there will always be a demand for nice well kept ships with a nice pool deck and loungers, and no need not being able to get into certain ports because of the ships size. By doing that you eliminate the hourse of lines for tendering which are not fun. I really wish the mid-sized ships would still continue to be built.JMO.
Off-topic, but I find it funny when I hear the Carnival Fantasy called a mid-sized ship. The Fantasy was the first ship I cruised on. My cruise was during her first year of service and at that time it was advertised as being the largest (or 2nd largest) cruise ship in the world, now a 60,000 ton ship is considered mid-size bordering on small.
Cruise ship senior officer. Why do cruise lines keep older ships? There are several reasons. The big one is that they are paid for and therefore the cruise fare can be lower and the company can still make money. Guests that are willing to sail on an older ship get a lower price. Smaller ships are still in demand and tend to be used on cruises where a smaller ship makes sense. A lot of times these older ships are sold to smaller cruise lines that want older cheaper and smaller ships or sold to more boutique cruise lines that completely refurbish them. The trend to larger ships is for 3 main reasons, there is more to do on larger ships, economies of scale ie crew/passenger ratio, one navigation crew, one harbor pilot, one mooring crew. Third reason is profitability. Real estate on a cruise ship is finite so the revenue per square foot is maximized. It's a business.....
Don, I am usually in agreement with much of what you say, BUT the smaller, older cruise ships are still needed. IMHO, the mega cruise ships are causing the issues with ports trying to eliminate / reduce te # of ships allowed in port. I LOVE the smaller ships
I worked in Boeing engineering for 38 years. When the 747 was designed they had never made anything that big and it was built tough. Once in use the service manuals were written around a 50,000 hour flight life. (A jet airplane structure is CONSTANTLY being modified and repaired in use). At 50,000 hours these planes were in such good shape they rewrote the service manuals to extend the life, then over the years they were able to cut out some weight in areas that were built TOO tough. Now, the engines and systems (pumps and valves and such) are either completely rebuilt or replaced on regular intervals, partly because of advances in technology. I can see a cruise ship going into dry dock and getting the structure worked over, repairs, reinforcements, paint, etc. But the engines and systems need to be replaced too, and not while in the middle of a paid cruise. Also, we see improvements in technology (USB ports, flat screen TVs) that must be updated to make the ship worthy of buying a ticket on.
P&O Aurora was launched in 2000 and is to this day one of the fleet‘s most popular ships. It was launched in 2000 and recently had a big refurb, I believe.
Carnival didn't dump the P&O Australia ships, they transferred them to Carnival and they will sail under the Carnival banner in Australia. Pacific Adventure will be Carnival Adventure and Pacific Encounter will be Carnival Encounter. The Pacific Explorer has been sold to another cruise line. I am just correcting Don's information.
I hope Royal keeps the Radiance Class forever, or replace them with something equivalent. I'll never cruise Oasis Class or larger. I'll switch to land based resorts instead.
If they would make more of the smaller ships, i.e., under 1100.pax, they wouldn't need to refurbished the old ones. Many of us don't want to cruise with 3000 or more of our closest friends.
I have sailed on the Regal Princess and the NCL Gem in the last 3 years. The Gem had a drydock in between the first time I sailed on it and the 2nd time. Looks wise it was great with the updated interior. Except that they got rid of the hallway fish carpeting. Refurbishing the ship can extend its life by a number of years at a fraction of the cost of replacing it. The extreme costs of building new ships has gotten so high and no one is building what would be the 1800 to 2500 passenger ships. Being over 65, I don't need or want the amusement park mega ships.
I love the older ships too! Do you recall if Horizon was one of those ships without a USB plug? I’m thinking we used our adapter because there wasn’t a USB, a few years ago? I guess Carnival and other lines, doing the same thing most are doing, refurbishing, recycling, etc., trying to get more life out of products, before throwing them away!! As long as the engine gets us from here to there, and back home, “safely”, I can deal with older ships unless the cost goes up closer to the newer ships😎😎🛳️🛳️
I’m about to board Navigator of the Seas in three weeks… she came on line 23 years ago and it’s in pretty nice shape…I’m guessing she’s got about four years or so left, which is about when… they’re looking to add the mysterious new “Discovery class”
I hope that the cruise lines KEEP the smaller OLDER ships. I enjoy the older and smaller ships. I have cruised the LARGER and newer ships and I am NOT happy with them. They had more places stuffed into the ship but there is normally less space to relax. I have been on the Spirit class many times, the Pride, Legend, and the Miracle, Also we will be on the Luminosa this June. I may stop cruising if the ships keep getting larger. Hey, Carnival have ships that are between 90,000 and 110,000 tones constructed! You know the mid size ships!
I asked my husband how long he thought how long the Pride of America would last? It's already old. there doesn't seem to be a plant to replace it and it's a very specific and very special ship. there are no other Jones Act ships in the fleet, and as far as I know , no other Jones Act ships in any of the Main stream lines. Once it's gone, the itineraries that it provided will be gone as well. No more Alaska to Hawaii direct or California to Hawaii to Alaska .. no island hopping available because YOU CAN'T . Only a Jones Act ship can. So what will they do? Ignore it? Wait until it's gone? Let it go?
@@lindasm8773 You are right. I had watched his video on his other channel about the DC plane crash recorded today and thought it was from a cruise ship. Looking at it again it is clearly from a hotel this morning.
I was just on the Magic in a big suite. Rusty water came out shower, sink etc. all the drawers where falling apart. I took pictures went to customer service. They gave use case water and told us to shower in the spa!!! Carnival has worst customer service I ever seen!!! We don’t mind paying but give us what we pay for!!!! My wife and I are so annoyed with this cruise line. Wish I could post pictures here.oh forgot fire sprinkler went off what a mess and pipes leaking in dining rooms and hallways. Totally ridiculous.
I've been somewhat curious what Royal Caribbean is planning to do. Their older, smaller ships are used for the more exotic runs. That's nice, but as they age out, do they think there is enough demand on some of those routes to fill their older megaships?
Astonia was just retired after 74 years, so the ships you are mentioning are still in their prime. While dry dock and repair costs go up with age, so do profits for cruise lines because the ships have been paid for for decades. And if they can offer a lower price, wonderful way to create entry level cruises in a time for crazy high cruise fares. Interesting comparison with cars, U.S. Post Office is just NOW starting to replace their 38 year old vehicles, so just like a ship, vehicles too can last much longer than most people keep them if kept up. I keep cars 20-31 years myself.
I like Celebrity Solstice Class ships better than their Edge Class. Just the right size in my opinion. Small enough for intimacy yet large enough for decent entertainment.
We took the Celebrity Millennium in November in Asia and it was the first cruise after dry dock. The ship is from 2000 and was refurbished in 2019. We had USB ports on our cabin and everything seemed to work on the ship except one elevator, in a bank of 3, which they replaced during our cruise. During the next cruise they were going to replace the electronics on the other two elevators on the bank, since there were two separate elevator controls at each floor, a video one for the new elevator and old fashioned up and down buttons for the other two. Obviously Celebrity felt keeping this now 25 year old ship and its sister ships is a good move. We will be taking the Celebrity Equinox in a couple months and will see how the next generation after the Millennium class compares. We also have a cruise planned on the Edge, but know that will be a very different experience.
My guess is cruise lines want to run the older ships as long as they can to maximize profits. If the cost to build a ship is paid off after 10 or even 15 yrs let’s say, every thing after is all gravy. They don’t worry about breakdowns that may disrupt your cruise enjoyment, even when they offer you cruise credits or refunds, they’re still ahead. Until it’s hurting their pockets to repair the mechanical problems, why not keep going…
I love the old ships, but I wish they would upgrade the entertainment on the old ships as well as the new ships.and. Maybe the word upgrade was harsh . What I really mean is more current entertainment.
Can't really agree that older ships are less reliable. I've been on a ship over 40 years old, which was in better condition than a 15 year old ship which was a rust bucket and constantly broke down. Depends on quality of build and how well they are maintained. Some cruise ships by their design are outmoded and less popular, eg the ones which had few balcony cabins and a larger proportion of inside cabins. So they perhaps had a shorter lifespan, as they became harder to sell as new ships came on line. It's quite economical to refit a 24 year old ship if its basic layout is up to date and its engines are reliable and reasonably fuel efficient. Things like USB in the cabins are relatively minor in terms of cost to update. In todays' cruise environment with demand for cruising increasing you can only build so many new ships a year, so no doubt it pays to stretch the life of existing vessels a little further.
I can’t believe how trashy The Carnival Freedom ship makes Carnival look by giving up on the whale tale. I mean it seems as if the ship is not worth getting it right yet they still have it cruising around looking trashy
Well, everyone wants all the bells and whistles now. The first cruise ship I went on in the 1980’s was 50 years old-the SS Britanis. We have become a throwaway society. It’s really unfortunate. I hate seeing all of those perfectly good ships being sold for scrap.
The Carnival Spirit issues from Cruise Mapper fires - 2007 (explosion), 2012 (sauna room) propulsion/power loss - 2002, 2005, 2010, 2015 deaths - 2012, overboard (2013, 2014-crew, 2019) injuries/crimes - overboard/rescued (2012), 2015 (class action lawsuit over Australia itinerary change) superyacht rescue (2016) medevacs - 2017, 2019, 2023 pollution in Alaska - 2010 Norovirus (passengers/crew) - 2003 (102 / 10), 2007 (116 / 8) Coronavirus - 2022 (100-200 ?) boat rescue - 2023 (24 people) If you look at the newer ships Propulsion issues are more prevalent. Maybe they realize that older are more reliable. When in the navy during the late 70's my ship was built in 1942. If good equipment is maintained they will continually preform, but garbage is garbage. Maybe they should source better equipment and focus less on technology. Granted sometimes better technology provides better efficiency. But at what end cost? The questions that need to be asked, does it sacrifice less than better emissions because of bad performance, additional cost, less comfort but not limited to these items. All actions must be weighed and without inside information we are all just guessing.
Maybe they figured out the ships being sold at 20/25 yrs old are being used by the another company for 10/15 years, so why don’t We keep them and get the extra trips out of them.
The typical age when most ships get retired is 30 years. That's usually when maintenance begins to cost more than it does to operate. This doesn't really apply to cruise ships they make a lot off passengers.
The good thing about the older ships…are the proper promenade decks.
I don't book old ships, but I think most of these ships are given a thorough makeover! Folks are screaming that they want smaller ships, so I'm pretty sure the old ships are going to stay around a long time!
Our favorite ship is 28 years old. We've been cruising on it for 17 years and would gladly do so in perpetuity as the crew has been quite stable over those years and for us the crew makes the ship.
We love the older, smaller ships. Those packed mega ships can keep their roller coasters!
I don't see a problem with these old ships. If you don't want to sail an old ship, don't book an old ship.
Agreed, we were on the Icon last summer and on the little Jewel of the seas over New Year’s. We loved them both for different reasons. Zero issues with either ship.
In the 1980s, I sailed on a ship built in 1932. She was at least 48 years old. She had no problems during the cruise.
One thing I observed was that whenever they used the ropes, they immediately painted the holes on the ship where the ropes went. They weren't going to allow any rust to start up.
Ships can last well past 30 years. What is needed is good, preventive maintenance and replacement of parts. When it comes to passenger cabins, they could use a long dry dock period to replace them all with brand new cabins. Cabins in today's cruise ships are modular, so it would be easy to replace them. This could be done at the 25 - or 30-year mark. They could rebuild or replace engines having severe, constant problems at the same time.
Furnishings from the old cabins could be sold, and the metal sold for scrap. That money could be applied to the cost of the brand new cabins.
Icon of the Seas has had propulsion problems and that's a brand new ship, also the older ships have had many many refits since they were first constructed
I was so happy to hear Disney is building 3 new, smaller ships. I wish the rest of the cruise lines would do the same!
Hi Don and all - we are on Royal's oldest and smallest ship, Grandeur of the Seas and it's showing some age but it's producing a great 9 day cruise. The news from the top tier event is that the plan is to run her another 5 years. They have upgraded internal systems and will refresh the interior spaces somewhat over the rest of Grandeur's life. This will give the company time to move forward with Project Discovery. Feel free to check out the ship condition as we begin to post Granduer content next week on our TH-cam channel!
As for USB plugs. Take a 4 or 6 port USB adapter and Power Packs. Charge the packs during the day and charge your phone on your night stand at night. Everything has a ‘work a round’ :-D
We love the older ships. Cruises are calmer and more space per person. We spent 24 days on the Volendam to Iceland and lots more and we really loved it. You can keep the mega ships.
We mostly go on Grandeur OTS or Vision OTS. We like the smaller ‘friendlier’ ships. Waiting for more news about the ‘Discovery’ class ships for RCL. As for “break downs”. We are retired so that is part of the adventure. :-)
Gee Don, I keep getting refurbished, lol.
The Spirit is a beautiful ship and great size
We just spent 2 weeks on the Grandeur of the Seas, it’s 29 years old and everyone seemed to love it. The shower valve wasn’t to good. Great value
something to think about... they built Spirit Class and Fantasy Class ship very well... they are one tough ship and you look at them they don't break down as much as the newer ships. I think older sailers still like them and the ships still stay fully booked
For $1000 difference in price, I’ll bring my own usb converter.
The Carnival Miracle is my favorite ship, I hope she stays around long enough for me to sail on her again ❤
The newer, larger ships are like shopping malls to me.
Other than the mechanical issues I like some of the older ships for their size and decor. However you brought up an interesting question.
Don, I’ve been on Carnival Spirit 6 times, it’s a perfect class and it’s a lot of people favorite. The Spirit class ships always sell out. Those are great ships, so glad that carnival is keeping Spirit.
I love so many of the older cruise ships. I like the smaller size. And it seems like a lot of the newer cruise ships are breaking down.
Disney Magic is over 25 years old and seems to run smoothly. I’d have never known its old age, it’s beautiful and the perfect size.
Hi Don. I will be sailing on the Sunshine and it is an older ship. I am ok with it. It is in Dry dock right now. I can not wait to see what changes they are doing.
I was on the Carnival Legend In November 2024 and it was one of the best maintained and cleanest ship I had ever been on. It was stunning.
I have been on the Vista, Panorama in the past 5 years and they were not near the condition of the legend and it was built in 2001. Either way they are defiantly keeping them up.
Love the older and smaller ships
Part of the problem is that these cruise lines keep wanting to build bigger & bigger ships that have water parks, roller coasters & go carts with a bunch of up charge dining and at the same time still have 4k to 5k passengers on them. Well a lot of these cruise ports either don’t want that, can’t support a ship of that size or both so they have to keep theses smaller older ships that to do those itineraries.
I think instead of just focusing on building resorts at sea they need to take an auto industry approach to building new ships which is build for different categories. Not everyone wants to be on the biggest ship or cares if there’s a roller coaster or not. However they do care about having modern updates without feeling like they are getting the brown end of the stick.
The spirit is an awesome ship. Hopefully they do a great refurb.
We just got off the Disney Magic which is 25 years old. Looked very nice to me.
We just went on a 20 year old ship, and everything worked okay, and we enjoyed it. The issue we had was with outlets. We had no USBs and only two outlets. I probably would not book again because we struggled with having enough outlets.
We usually book the older ships since they are cheaper as they don't have all the latest family fun features. Also, they tend to be smaller than the mega ships, which means less port restrictions.
NCL Spirit went into service in 1998, so is now 26 years old. NCL last refurbished her in 2020 and is a gorgeous ship. I would happily sail on her again.
That one of the reasons why I'm taking one more cruise with Carnival (Jubilee) and switch up how my family take vacations. We're also tired of going to the same places (We sail out of Galveston). We like sailing on large ships.
These old ships are needed because they are usually smaller than the new ones. I read sometime ago that RCI was considering building new small ships so they can get to some ports where new ships can't get to.
I always book my cruises based on price. No matter which cruise it is, it is always better than being at work.
I’m going on the Caribbean Princess this year and can’t wait. The new ships are too big and expensive.
One possible reason to keep an old ship going is their relative mechanical simplicity compared to all of the modern propulsion systems and their pollution controls, alternative fuels, parts availability and so on. Also, if you can eek out 10 more years from a ship for $150 million, that is a bargain compared to the billion-plus dollar cost of a new ship. Also, cruise lines can offer lower price fares on the old ships to attract more new cruisers and keep the veteran cruisers happy too.
I've cruised on the Legend, Pride, and Celebration. So two of the smallest and the biggest in Carnival's fleet. I love the small ships. I don't mind the gaudy decor and smaller spaces. I like the intimacy of these spaces. The new ship on a ship concept isn't my thing. The Celebration was a good ship but give me a small ship any day of the week.
One good thing about the older ships is the smaller size a lot of the time.
If you are already writing off Royal-class ships then I’d argue that the problem lies with you, Don, or the maintenance practices of Princess.
yep, we were on the Carnival Dream in December. It's birth date was in 2009, refurbed in 2012, and was last in dry dock in 2017. It showed its age everywhere: rust, chunks of wood missting from cabinets, cracks, peeling paint, and more. We were disappointed in the condition. Won't go on their older ships anymore. New or nothing
Raising a lot of good points. Wondering what they are thinking
Well Carnival scrapped several Fantasy Class ships during the pandemic. Regarding the Spirit Class ships, they have a few home ports where only the smaller ships can fit (like the Spirit Class)…there’s bridges the ships have to go under so the newer, bigger ships can’t fit. If they retire the older smaller ships how can they service the home ports with low bridge clearance?
I love some of the older ships as they are smaller.
Touchy subject for me. It's not how many refurbishments these companies keep doing, but the fact of why can't they continue to build mid-sized ships like the NCL Pearl or Carnival Fantasy (which no longer exists).
I understand the trend is complete vacations on these ships for family crowds, but people like myself do get old and there will always be a demand for nice well kept ships with a nice pool deck and loungers, and no need not being able to get into certain ports because of the ships size.
By doing that you eliminate the hourse of lines for tendering which are not fun.
I really wish the mid-sized ships would still continue to be built.JMO.
Off-topic, but I find it funny when I hear the Carnival Fantasy called a mid-sized ship. The Fantasy was the first ship I cruised on. My cruise was during her first year of service and at that time it was advertised as being the largest (or 2nd largest) cruise ship in the world, now a 60,000 ton ship is considered mid-size bordering on small.
Cruise ship senior officer. Why do cruise lines keep older ships? There are several reasons. The big one is that they are paid for and therefore the cruise fare can be lower and the company can still make money. Guests that are willing to sail on an older ship get a lower price. Smaller ships are still in demand and tend to be used on cruises where a smaller ship makes sense. A lot of times these older ships are sold to smaller cruise lines that want older cheaper and smaller ships or sold to more boutique cruise lines that completely refurbish them.
The trend to larger ships is for 3 main reasons, there is more to do on larger ships, economies of scale ie crew/passenger ratio, one navigation crew, one harbor pilot, one mooring crew. Third reason is profitability. Real estate on a cruise ship is finite so the revenue per square foot is maximized. It's a business.....
Don, I am usually in agreement with much of what you say, BUT the smaller, older cruise ships are still needed. IMHO, the mega cruise ships are causing the issues with ports trying to eliminate / reduce te # of ships allowed in port. I LOVE the smaller ships
Totally agree
We sailed on Carnival Valor last April. We had a good time, but the ship REALLY looked it's age!!!
Personally I avoid ships over 10yrs. But I fell like 25 should be the maximum.
Anything over should get an in depth strip down and rebuild.
I worked in Boeing engineering for 38 years.
When the 747 was designed they had never made anything that big and it was built tough. Once in use the service manuals were written around a 50,000 hour flight life. (A jet airplane structure is CONSTANTLY being modified and repaired in use). At 50,000 hours these planes were in such good shape they rewrote the service manuals to extend the life, then over the years they were able to cut out some weight in areas that were built TOO tough. Now, the engines and systems (pumps and valves and such) are either completely rebuilt or replaced on regular intervals, partly because of advances in technology.
I can see a cruise ship going into dry dock and getting the structure worked over, repairs, reinforcements, paint, etc. But the engines and systems need to be replaced too, and not while in the middle of a paid cruise. Also, we see improvements in technology (USB ports, flat screen TVs) that must be updated to make the ship worthy of buying a ticket on.
Thanks Don.
P&O Aurora was launched in 2000 and is to this day one of the fleet‘s most popular ships. It was launched in 2000 and recently had a big refurb, I believe.
Carnival didn't dump the P&O Australia ships, they transferred them to Carnival and they will sail under the Carnival banner in Australia. Pacific Adventure will be Carnival Adventure and Pacific Encounter will be Carnival Encounter. The Pacific Explorer has been sold to another cruise line. I am just correcting Don's information.
I hope Royal keeps the Radiance Class forever, or replace them with something equivalent. I'll never cruise Oasis Class or larger. I'll switch to land based resorts instead.
If they would make more of the smaller ships, i.e., under 1100.pax, they wouldn't need to refurbished the old ones. Many of us don't want to cruise with 3000 or more of our closest friends.
I have sailed on the Regal Princess and the NCL Gem in the last 3 years. The Gem had a drydock in between the first time I sailed on it and the 2nd time. Looks wise it was great with the updated interior. Except that they got rid of the hallway fish carpeting. Refurbishing the ship can extend its life by a number of years at a fraction of the cost of replacing it. The extreme costs of building new ships has gotten so high and no one is building what would be the 1800 to 2500 passenger ships. Being over 65, I don't need or want the amusement park mega ships.
I love the older ships too! Do you recall if Horizon was one of those ships without a USB plug? I’m thinking we used our adapter because there wasn’t a USB, a few years ago? I guess Carnival and other lines, doing the same thing most are doing, refurbishing, recycling, etc., trying to get more life out of products, before throwing them away!! As long as the engine gets us from here to there, and back home, “safely”, I can deal with older ships unless the cost goes up closer to the newer ships😎😎🛳️🛳️
With computer technology for systems operations correcting problems it could be possible to increase longevity. ?
I’m about to board Navigator of the Seas in three weeks… she came on line 23 years ago and it’s in pretty nice shape…I’m guessing she’s got about four years or so left, which is about when… they’re looking to add the mysterious new “Discovery class”
I like new big ships but going to go on a small old ship in April, don't know how that is going to go.
It's also clear a 25 year old ship today has not aged in the same way a 25 year old ship did in 1990, or even 2000
Don, if you only book newer ships, you can avoid any discomfort you have.
As much as I love Carnival, they really need to get some new ships.
Agreed. Some new technology is great while others leaves you wondering what in the world were they thinking about when designing it.
Well, maybe they're getting it ready for sale on a three and a half week dry dock!!
I hope that the cruise lines KEEP the smaller OLDER ships. I enjoy the older and smaller ships. I have cruised the LARGER and newer ships and I am NOT happy with them. They had more places stuffed into the ship but there is normally less space to relax. I have been on the Spirit class many times, the Pride, Legend, and the Miracle, Also we will be on the Luminosa this June. I may stop cruising if the ships keep getting larger. Hey, Carnival have ships that are between 90,000 and 110,000 tones constructed! You know the mid size ships!
Agree Don. Thanks
I asked my husband how long he thought how long the Pride of America would last? It's already old. there doesn't seem to be a plant to replace it and it's a very specific and very special ship. there are no other Jones Act ships in the fleet, and as far as I know , no other Jones Act ships in any of the Main stream lines. Once it's gone, the itineraries that it provided will be gone as well. No more Alaska to Hawaii direct or California to Hawaii to Alaska .. no island hopping available because YOU CAN'T . Only a Jones Act ship can. So what will they do? Ignore it? Wait until it's gone? Let it go?
I guess Don is doing a B2B on Regal Princess, since the last cruise ended Jan 29th. 10 day followed by a 11 day cruise?
This may have been recorded ahead of his departure.
@@lindasm8773 You are right. I had watched his video on his other channel about the DC plane crash recorded today and thought it was from a cruise ship. Looking at it again it is clearly from a hotel this morning.
Love the smaller ship.
I was just on the Magic in a big suite. Rusty water came out shower, sink etc. all the drawers where falling apart. I took pictures went to customer service. They gave use case water and told us to shower in the spa!!! Carnival has worst customer service I ever seen!!! We don’t mind paying but give us what we pay for!!!! My wife and I are so annoyed with this cruise line. Wish I could post pictures here.oh forgot fire sprinkler went off what a mess and pipes leaking in dining rooms and hallways. Totally ridiculous.
I've been somewhat curious what Royal Caribbean is planning to do. Their older, smaller ships are used for the more exotic runs. That's nice, but as they age out, do they think there is enough demand on some of those routes to fill their older megaships?
Astonia was just retired after 74 years, so the ships you are mentioning are still in their prime. While dry dock and repair costs go up with age, so do profits for cruise lines because the ships have been paid for for decades. And if they can offer a lower price, wonderful way to create entry level cruises in a time for crazy high cruise fares. Interesting comparison with cars, U.S. Post Office is just NOW starting to replace their 38 year old vehicles, so just like a ship, vehicles too can last much longer than most people keep them if kept up. I keep cars 20-31 years myself.
I like Celebrity Solstice Class ships better than their Edge Class. Just the right size in my opinion. Small enough for intimacy yet large enough for decent entertainment.
I have no problem with the older ships, plus they're affordable.
Shiny and new isn’t always best. Icon already has problems.
Isn't the villa vie close ti 30 yrs old? They're planning a 15 year sailing.
They just want to get every drop out of these ships, if they are still able run in some capacity they will keep using.
We took the Celebrity Millennium in November in Asia and it was the first cruise after dry dock. The ship is from 2000 and was refurbished in 2019. We had USB ports on our cabin and everything seemed to work on the ship except one elevator, in a bank of 3, which they replaced during our cruise. During the next cruise they were going to replace the electronics on the other two elevators on the bank, since there were two separate elevator controls at each floor, a video one for the new elevator and old fashioned up and down buttons for the other two. Obviously Celebrity felt keeping this now 25 year old ship and its sister ships is a good move. We will be taking the Celebrity Equinox in a couple months and will see how the next generation after the Millennium class compares. We also have a cruise planned on the Edge, but know that will be a very different experience.
I think the cruise companies should have invested in new mid-range ships. But then they didn't ask for my opinion. Oh well.
I wish they would ask us. Cause I’m not a fan of these mega ships.
Cruise ships are built a lot different than cars. They have a lot more long term engineered into them
Did you run out of clean clothes, and you are elite so why are you doing your podcast in a white t-shirt?
I know the ship are old and cheap but hope that cheap isn’t what we start getting for our money.
My guess is cruise lines want to run the older ships as long as they can to maximize profits. If the cost to build a ship is paid off after 10 or even 15 yrs let’s say, every thing after is all gravy. They don’t worry about breakdowns that may disrupt your cruise enjoyment, even when they offer you cruise credits or refunds, they’re still ahead. Until it’s hurting their pockets to repair the mechanical problems, why not keep going…
I love the old ships, but I wish they would upgrade the entertainment on the old ships as well as the new ships.and. Maybe the word upgrade was harsh . What I really mean is more current entertainment.
Sounds like the never ships are having more trouble than the older ones. Workmanship is not as good these days as they used to be.
Look how long airline keep their airplanes going? The 747 was almost 50 years when it was retired.
DON, A paid off ship with high demand = HUGE PROFITS.
Can't really agree that older ships are less reliable. I've been on a ship over 40 years old, which was in better condition than a 15 year old ship which was a rust bucket and constantly broke down. Depends on quality of build and how well they are maintained. Some cruise ships by their design are outmoded and less popular, eg the ones which had few balcony cabins and a larger proportion of inside cabins. So they perhaps had a shorter lifespan, as they became harder to sell as new ships came on line. It's quite economical to refit a 24 year old ship if its basic layout is up to date and its engines are reliable and reasonably fuel efficient. Things like USB in the cabins are relatively minor in terms of cost to update. In todays' cruise environment with demand for cruising increasing you can only build so many new ships a year, so no doubt it pays to stretch the life of existing vessels a little further.
Save the Regal Princess!
I can’t believe how trashy The Carnival Freedom ship makes Carnival look by giving up on the whale tale. I mean it seems as if the ship is not worth getting it right yet they still have it cruising around looking trashy
With the way Disney is refreshing their ships they could go 30+ years. Disney cruisers live the original ships
Well, everyone wants all the bells and whistles now. The first cruise ship I went on in the 1980’s was 50 years old-the SS Britanis. We have become a throwaway society. It’s really unfortunate. I hate seeing all of those perfectly good ships being sold for scrap.
The Carnival Spirit issues from Cruise Mapper
fires - 2007 (explosion), 2012 (sauna room)
propulsion/power loss - 2002, 2005, 2010, 2015
deaths - 2012, overboard (2013, 2014-crew, 2019)
injuries/crimes - overboard/rescued (2012), 2015 (class action lawsuit over Australia itinerary change)
superyacht rescue (2016)
medevacs - 2017, 2019, 2023
pollution in Alaska - 2010
Norovirus (passengers/crew) - 2003 (102 / 10), 2007 (116 / 8)
Coronavirus - 2022 (100-200 ?)
boat rescue - 2023 (24 people)
If you look at the newer ships Propulsion issues are more prevalent. Maybe they realize that older are more reliable. When in the navy during the late 70's my ship was built in 1942. If good equipment is maintained they will continually preform, but garbage is garbage. Maybe they should source better equipment and focus less on technology. Granted sometimes better technology provides better efficiency. But at what end cost? The questions that need to be asked, does it sacrifice less than better emissions because of bad performance, additional cost, less comfort but not limited to these items. All actions must be weighed and without inside information we are all just guessing.
I don't mind the older ships at all but some of them are being neglected. RC ships in particular.
I wish you would bring in an expert to explain the dry docks which are required by the SOLAS treaty. Talking/wondering doesn't give us any answers.
The new Norwegian ships are estimated to run 50yrs.
Maybe they figured out the ships being sold at 20/25 yrs old are being used by the another company for 10/15 years, so why don’t
We keep them and get the extra trips out of them.
The typical age when most ships get retired is 30 years. That's usually when maintenance begins to cost more than it does to operate. This doesn't really apply to cruise ships they make a lot off passengers.
Hmmm. Change out all new engines and all parts. Instead of changing the wood and rearranging eating venues.
There were several ships went to scrap during Covid time. Fix the engines - lower the prizes.
I don't know what they are going to do.