I bought a Viofo A119 v2., after 3 years of just recording interesting things I was sideswiped in a hit and run. I was able to pull the footage and had one readable frame where I got his license plate. The police gave me his info and I was able to get my truck repaired at no cost to me. The footage is on my channel.
Damn good job dude, I used to have that camera. I’m currently looking for the best plate reading one with the ability to access the footage from my phone even if I’m miles away from my car and not connected to wifi, sort of like my ring cameras
Here in Sweden we can just send a text and get info about who owns a car. It costs 3sek (0.3 usd) But the question I have for you is why did you have to contact the owner? Why didn't the cops and/or insurance company do it for you? Edit: OK I have watched your video now. I thought that you were hit by a car side on and that it was a lot of damage. (English is my second language and I didn't read side swiped right at first). Not I understand that you didn't have to involve cops or insurance unless the owner didn't take responsibility.
I install high end security camera systems for the government. The technology definitely exists. I think the biggest issue is the economies of scale. There's just not enough people buying dash cams to bring the cost down to make it feasible. Our system can read plates over 150 mph clear as day. The problem is the camera alone is $13,000. Cheaper solutions are still over $1000 for the camera. You need a sensor with a larger optic for low light. 1/3 sensor just won't let in enough light. Higher megapixels sensors will just be dividing that light between more pixels. You also need a fast processor to handle the data. None of that is cheap.
@@VortexRadar I install fixed lpr cameras, not mobile. It's for military application, not police. I can't say which camera I install, but look into Vigilant Solutions. That should give you an idea of the technology. I believe they're owned by Motorola now
@@VortexRadar Its awesome to see someone talking about the Axon Fleet 3. I use a WatchGuard 4RE in my vehicle. Good cameras exist, they are just gatekept.
I'd like to applaud the editing on this video. I know all those inset license plate images and the split screens took a ton of time and effort. Well done and very professional. It made the video far more informative and easy to digest.
Great video with lots of context. My BlackVue 4k dashcam recently saved me from a scam and in my scenario the BlackVue did clearly capture the license plate so having a quality dash cam is definitely worth it.
Thank you for putting this highly informative video together. You are doing a service to the whole dashcam community (including users and manufacturers). We love LTT too and thought they made some valid points but felt they didn't go as deep in the testing and real-life experimentation as they usually do on their core PC hardware-related videos. Thanks again for your work.
@@Fee.1 @Fee is this personal for you? Vortex radar did an excellent professional job with this video. Am I not allowed to be excited by his video that I felt did a tremendous job commenting on a video that we know reaches millions of people who are going to take his word on any subject? shouldn't bother you that some TH-camrs who make content based around dashcams wanted to give their input on the subject.
@@integralcam you can praise Vortex Radar all you want and it didn’t require trashing Linus, as should have been evident by Ari not doing so himself in this video. I want him to prosper and have the ability to work with giant youtubers that could massively boost his audience…not have said youtubers see a bunch of personal attacks in the comments. I say again, he didn’t present himself as a expert on dashcams. He made it clear he had no idea what to buy and was testing a bunch of options. I say the following again as well, people who respond to videos like this by trash talking either content creator need to grow up. That goes for Linus Stans that may come here and talk shit and vice versa and I am confident beyond a shadow of a doubt Vortex agrees.
This was the perfect video to follow Linus' dashcam video, thank you! My first thought when watching Linus' dashcam quality review the other day was "I wish Vortex would do a in depth dashcam quality review!", and here you are 😁. I'm also a Viofo A129 owner since 2019, still the best cam to date.
I suspect it's because the lower margins in the car cam market. In order to have a good enough picture quality in all lighting conditions, you'd need a jack-of-all-trades system. GoPro is excellent in its daytime high bitrate and framerate application, but I doubt they would'd be good at dashcam.
I tried four generations of GoPros because I'm an idiot. They were all buggy, turning off whenever they wanted, not powering up whenever they wanted, acting bricked, then hours later working fine. Yes, good quality video, but you just never knew if they were actually working. Never again!
Thanks for this video, you've greatly improved my understanding of dashcam pros and cons. Of your videos that I have watched I consider this to be one of your best.
WOW! What a video! This is more clear and more thorough than any information on the topic I’ve seen from anyone! THANK YOU! And thank you for not splitting it into multiple videos, when that might have been tempting. It’s great to have it all in one place.
I've got the Viofo A119 Pro Duo and I found it quite peculiar that my rear 2k footage is able to capture a license plate while my front 4k footage can't. This has happened more times than I can count. Pretty cool to see that I'm not the only one that this happens to.
Oh goodness this is such an in-depth review. Thank you for sharing this knowledge and presented it in such a careful and professional way. Much appreciated!
This was a REALLY good video. You did a great job pointing out all the different factors that people sometimes misunderstand or misinterpret when evaluating video quality. One other thing that I think might be a factor in dashcam development is the lack of a market for high end dashcams. Just like in 3D printers, dashcams had a "race to the bottom" where people were willing to pay $100 for a dashcam, but not more, so the majority of development went into cost savings rather than quality improvement. Dashcams and security cameras have a lot in common, and one of the new trends in security cameras is to use 2 lenses (one wide angle one telephoto) and 2 sensors to simultaneously capture the same scene. I think this tech could be a huge benefit for dashcams and while not every plate would be captured due to the lower FoV of the telephoto lens you'd still get clear picture from a sweet spot in the scene, combine that with the fact that you could set up the telephoto sensor to have a higher shutter speed and HLC and you could really sell it as a "license plate camera".
7:02 The solution that has worked for me in this scenario is changing my settings to -1 ev as well as using a polarizer. This darkens it enough to see plates at night. My DOD LS360W with a 140* FOV was the best at capturing plates during the day and at night for me. Out on the highway in the dark it could capture plates if you match the speed of the vehicle next to you momentarily in the FOV.
I recently got the VIOFO A129 Pro Duo 4K 2-Channel Dash Cam with GPS after watching your channel. I've been VERY happy with this dashcam compared to the cheapo under $50 cameras I've had in the past. My new cam isn't premium, but it is really good. My new personal strategy with license plates is (if possible) to read the plate number out loud so it's in the audio of my clip. I also say other details that the video may not catch. I haven't done that in the past, and later realized that the video missed details. Your channel has been very helpful to me in the setup of my dashcams and radar detector. THANK YOU...
@@Fee.1 .. Yeah.. That's why i went with the A129 Duo Plus... To get the dual camera with decent video and also start using parking mode. What i liked about the duo plus is they moved the video processing for the rear camera into the rear camera and lighten the load on the front camera.
I feel like one of the biggest areas they can improve is moving all the processing to a remote unit that can stay cool, make the camera modules just modules that are the sensor and lens. I still have a koonlung K1S dashcam because to date really been the only unit that fits that bill. Still works to, though after about 6 years it's a bit dated and starting to have issues. but it has saved me twice in the 2 times i was rear ended. Honestly my dream unit would be a 2 channel kit with these new starvis 2 sensors, and a remote CPU to process and image enhance as well as handle data storage. Something else that could potentially leap frog things is if someone can figure out how to use a true 4k sensor to capture 4 1080p images at different exposures to do WDR/HDR by splicing those images back afterwards then you likely would remove the ghosting and be able to get an even wider range than the current offerings (since they try to use 2 frames to combine into one).
If you have audio, it's wise to say the license plate aloud at least twice in case the camera doesn't pick it up. Dash cams really need to be outside the glass, not inside.
@@MuiKaHo The same environmental hazards the windshield is exposed to- got it. My point was that no matter how you mount the camera behind the windshield, you're going to have some image loss and distortion capturing video through what is essentially 3 more layers of transparent material, not including coatings and tints applied to windshields at the factory, plus the glare from irregular angles and interior lighting.
Hey Ariel, as always your videos are great! Thank you for putting together this video in response to LTT. Both of you made some great valid points on dash cam quality. While we do think video quality is important, it's only just a part of what makes up a great dash cam; something that LTT's video does not necessarily go into either. Don't think anyone else could have put together a better video explaining the importance of dash cam features and their implications in the real world. Keep up the good work!
@@DashCamSerbia It is very subjective. I have been using dash cameras for 10 years now, and while video quality is very important, other features are very important also. I had my car vandalized a few years ago, a small dent on a rear panel. I didn't even notice it, but because my (at the time) thinkware U1000 prioritized saving parking mode videos, and had sensed the impact of it, I was able to look back and find the footage from 2 weeks ago still on my memory card. Since it was ruled vandalism by my insurance with the video proof, they did not raise my rates. It saved me money having those extra features. That camera didn't have the best video quality possible, but it still saved me money on an insurance claim, which is my ultimate goal owning dash cams.
@@integralcam I don't even use parking mode, I don't even leave the camera in the car over night. I don't want some kid or whoever to break into my ca over a 50$ dash cam.
A very honest and extremely well researched presentation of options. Much appreciated by someone who just acquired their first dashcam (Redtiger F7NP - Not even mentioned :-:)) for Christmas. Your honest assessments, and detail analysis, are very much appreciated.
I use the hero 10 as a motorcycle vlogging camera. It’s insane how good 5.3k 60 and 4K 120fps looks…almost as insane as how it all falls apart after nightfall unless I switch to 24FPS…and even then it’s meh
@@VortexRadar before the firmware updates for the overheating it was pretty terrible because I couldn’t record in 4K 60 or 120 for more than a few minutes, let alone 5k 60, after it’s as good as I’ve seen for daytime use. It all falls apart at night unless you’re willing to pull some data from the footage in post like you did in this video but that’s not really realistic for most people, in the end unfortunately the practicality of the GoPro isn’t there for dashcam use, it makes sense for motoryclylists just because it’s much easier to remember to turn it on when it’s mounted to your helmet Also I disable hypersmooth, I don’t want any artificial blurring added by the camera for smoothness or any other sake and GoPro hypersmooth sacrifices ALL for smoothness
I’m quite happy with the Innov K5 for my motorcycle dash cam although there’s not a lot to choose from for bikes. I use a Hero 9 for recording track day stuff
Look into a portable camera that uses a full frame sensor, not sure if it exists yet but look up night time Footage of Sony a7s3 / a7s2 , it records in basically 0 light conditions with no noise, if only go pro could do that
You had commented that the Viofo A119 v3 is your favorite ~$100 dashcam. One thing you didn't really touch on: what would be your favorite dashcam overall?
I've been researching dashcams for myself for a couple years. It becomes mind boggling to decide... there's so much knockoff junk out there. Watching reviews, reading reviews, researching individual features of every manufacturer. Then watching actual recorded footage...for a couple years! I had a couple in mind recently and wanted to pull the trigger but still couldn't decide. Cost wasn't an issue so that was off the table. I even tried using an old smartphone and played with the idea of my GoPro, but like you very plainly explained, they just aren't made for dashcam purposes. Then I stumbled onto Linus' video a couple weeks ago. I finally decided, that day, on the Viofo A129 Plus Duo Dual. I want front ear capability. I'm waiting for it to arrive and now I see YOUR video. I'm happy that I went with that Viofo A129. Thanks man! Great channel. 👌
@Phillip Banes how is the Garmin? I have the 67w but it has battery versus capacitor. The Garmin li poly battery would die in one or two Summers in Texas when compared to super capacitor
tbh i think you sound a lot like dr mike israetal from renaissance periodization, really informative video and very very open and in-depth explanations of content. great respect for others and a very unbiased way of presenting good information! thank you for being a channel that doesn't just talk smack for cash!
Awesome video Vortex! These explains everything I needed to know about the dash cams advantages and limitations. I’m ok with the choice I made which is the Vantrue N4, instead of having to pay much more for a higher resolution and more expensive dash cam that will have many of the same shortcomings of a cheaper one. You are the best!
For regular driver just having a camera is more important than high resolution. It's only needed when there is hit and run accident, but if vehicle stay put after, the movement before is more important. It's like having the gun for self-defense; even small caliber may suffice as long as you have it. I just wanted to add that for me more important is the view of my driver side window when talking to the police officers with more cops going rouge these days. Also powering camera should be important because the engine is turn off during encounter and camera may shot down and not to record it
what I was looking for was Dash Cam to deal with police encounters and speeding disputes. If you can prove you weren't speeding with a dash cam because lying police are everywhere. I can't believe this issue isn't addressed in any of the videos I've seen so far, too many people living in their urbanite bubble
Honestly it seems like the solution is to use 2 specialized sensors, then have each recognize a day or night mode based on headlight state. 1- A wider field of view camera that maintain short exposure times for fluid video playback (a summary camera.) 2- A narrower field of view camera that specializes in specifically capturing license plates (a plate camera.) When the headlight state switches on (this is a single wire-to-ground check for an open circuit), you could theoretically alternate the camera settings and if needed, start a new file with new encoding: 1A- The summary camera can maintain a bit longer exposure times at night for scene layout and determining fault, but with image processing intended for nighttime. 2A- The plate camera can have much lower exposure times at night, intending to specifically replicate how the gopro was able to see retroreflective or well lit areas only, making it better at capturing plates, then be further optimized with a bit of post processing as well. I don't think a resolution higher than 1440p is really needed, as it mostly benefits the stationary camera, which was readable at 1080p and above in most cases. As for heat.. Seriously, mount these in a box, not on a swivel ball. A good camera is worth a few bolt holes, especially if you had a standardized mount and left that in the vehicle during resale. But mounted in a box to the roof above the windshield (or on the dash, but sunlight may be a heat and UV issue there), it should be pretty simple to strap a rear-mounted heatsink for cooling the dual cameras. Is it going to cost more? Absolutely. Would I buy it instead of the crappy cameras that barely work that I'm not buying? Absolutely. Give me two of these, for the two vehicles in my home, and then two of the crappy ones for rear cameras, since I only want rear cameras for determining fault. If the person runs, they'll almost certainly go by the front camera. It's $1,000 for two of these? Well, so is my deductible for ONE of the vehicles. So let's consider it half the price of getting hit ONCE. Still I would buy them if they were actually tailor made for the application.
Great video! You accurately went into detail about the dashcams that have been on the market for many years. I loved the amount of testing you did! Great work!
I know this isn't a new video. I stumbled upon this looking for info on dash cams. I watch Linus's first then saw yours. Yours is better you do not have a condescending tone to your voice. Checked your list for cams and I am going with your Pro pick. Can these be wired to record while your car is constantly parked not just for a time period? Sorry I am still learning about all of this.
Ah thank you. Welcome. Yeah you can wire it to your car battery or a dedicated battery pack (I’m working on a video about these now) and run the dashcam until either your car battery drops too low or until the dashcam battery fully empties.
23:33 "I like to avoid any of the artificial resolutions." Good point. It reminds me of my favorite camera tip for people: Don't use the pretend zoom-in function on your phone's camera. All that does is permanently crop your photo, and you likely will be better off just cropping later with basic gallery tools.
I've had dash cams on every vehicle I've owned for last 10 yrs now with no real incidence to talk about. A few months ago, I'm on vacation in Dallas and the hotel parking lot gets vandalized. We wake up to cops everywhere. Turns out 4 trucks had their catalytic converters stolen. One of the trucks was parked infront of me! I'm thinking I can be the hero, i can solve this case! I go talk to the cops and we pulled my Thinkware Q800PRO videos. And strike! It Captures the crime, the thieves car even pulls right infront of me! A dodge charger. Got em! Only to be disappointed that the video was too grainy to read the license plates. Two shadowy figures in hoodys and facemasks did the crime... I could feel the disappoint from the cop voice as I emailed him a copy of the video. So yeah, i understand Linus frustration. Buy the cheapest one to capture accident and see who's at fault and forget about the gimmicks.
Sounds like you need two cameras, one for a narrower field of view for more detail in the central area of vision and one to give less detail in peripheral vision.
Just wanted to say thank you. This did a great job explaining Linus' video (which was rather confusing) and making me confirm my choice of the VIOFO A119
In my personal case I have to use my older phone and it looks great absolutely much better and I only need 1440p resolution for get the details of resolution needed
I saw the LTT video as well (love them) and immediately hoped you would follow it up. Did not disappoint! I will say that I have purchased 2 Viofo dash cams after watching content here and both have absolutely let me down. The A129 pro duo has major overheating issues and is literally a fire hazard and never runs for more than 5 minutes without thermal shut down. The A119V3 was good until it fell off the windshield and hit the dashboard. And now it is stuck in an endless bootloop. I guess buy cheap, buy twice applies to dash cams too. Shame. Good video quality but terrible reliability. Anyway, thanks for all your hard work and keep the videos coming!
The problem with GoPro sensor is that the size of its IMX677 sensor is 1/2.3", which is slightly larger than the 1/2.8" sized IMX335 sensor. However, at 24 megapixels, the size of each pixel on the IMX667 is 1.1 um (micron/micrometer), whereas the IMX335's 5 MP sensor results in each pixel being 2 um big. Bigger pixel size should result in better low light performance, right? So I think that an easy way to improve dashcam low light performance with is to use larger sensors without going too high in the megapixel count. Not many dashcams are using larger sensors probably for cost reasons. The U1000 uses the IMX334 sensor which is 1/1.8", slightly larger than the IMX677, which at 8MP, has 2 um sized pixels. Looking at the IMX334 spec sheet, I notice that it has 2/2 pixel binning mode. I assume it this means it can combine an array of 2x2 pixels into one pixel that's effectively 4 um wide. I wonder if the U1000 takes advantage of this binning feature when running in 1080P mode?...
This video was amazing. I loved everything about it. As someone who is thinking of getting a dash cam now though I definitely feel like I should wait for that new sony chip you mentioned to be released on products, and to add on to that fact I really can’t wait for you to get your hands on some when they do first come out so I can see a good review just like this video and really make up my mind and hopefully they will be the best they’ve ever been at that point!
Hi. You are 100% correct in your findings. Looking into this sort of kit myself. There is software that can focus on letters and numbers BUT at this time it is expensive and out of dash cam manufactures price range. Keep up the good work.
Seems like it is time for an image sensor designed specifically for a dash camera. Also, some 5houfht should be given to normal focal lengths vs. wide view vocal lengths. Finally, as you do well highlighted, frame rates and contrast ratios need to be well chosen. Gimmicks lick HDR which may work well for still frames are not optimal for high frame rate video. Great job.
So I put a link to my video on the recommended dashcams right in the top of the video description for you. You can check out that video here: th-cam.com/video/nrvTxCEBbek/w-d-xo.html
There are computational methods to greatly improve upon some of those raw license plate captures. If you can guess the relative motion of the blurred object, you can create a mathematical description of the blur, and apply the opposite operation to undo the blur. The result won't be perfect, but many details in the blurred image were just spread over multiple pixels in a predictable manner, and they can be consolidated to unblur the image.
@Phillip Banes Perinne here, I got a notification about your comment but can't reply because yesterday Vortex Radar deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, doing to others what he wouldn't want done to himself. Anyway, good question, I think we should ask an even broader question; can an inanimate object i.e. a camera be a witness? There are varying opinions about this. Some say that only a flesh and blood human being can be a witness.
Excellent video! I've been experimenting with dash cams and gopro's for a while now and its been the bane of my existence! Daytime is easy to dial in, but night time is where the problems start for ALL of these cameras. I've went through dozens of dash cams and havent been happy with the quality of any of them even after post processing. The gopro's have the stabilization down quite well but the night time quality is bad, I dont care how anyone looks at it, its just bad. I have to monitor my gopro's like a hawk when filming because of what you mentioned, the overheating but ALSO the quikpro app is notorious for disconnecting and turning off recording. I cant wait to actually find something high quality for night time.
Well this video really shows that dash cams for all their problems really do a pretty great job considering all the things we expect of them. I have a feeling that if people were willing to pay a $1,000 for dash cams we could make better cameras but how many people are willing to pay that cost? My guess is not enough to make it worth doing. I know, we need apple (barf) to make the AppleCam (double barf) for cars, lol.
Just like there are people willing to pay 1.000$+ for a phone, there are also enthusiasts who would be willing to pay similar price for the best of the best dash cam.
@@DashCamSerbia I would say that many people who buy $1000+ phones, especially the latest iPhones do so because it is more of a status symbol rather than being a phone enthusiast.
Great video! I think the ideal dashcam would be low resolution, large sensor, high shutter speed. This would allow low light footage to be MUCH better, and it makes it easier to catch plates. I don’t think high resolution cameras are necessary for dashcams, it seems more like the high resolution cams that exist are kinda “brute forcing” their way through their limitations. For an extreme example think of the A7s series of cameras. Low resolution massive sensor means AMAZING low light and high shutter speed footage. EDIT: Phones also do a ton of computational photography. This requires an expensive processor, and a ton of R&D to program such behaviors. Definitely wouldn’t fit in the typical dashcam price point. Even the expertise to make such a thing isn’t that common. I think it would be easier, but still more expensive, to use a larger sensor.
would love to have seen LTT reach out to you for a colab on this topic! you have so much more in depth testing and knowledge on this topic and radar detectors.
That man is so busy right now I think it’s hard for him to keep up with much outside of LTT, and I’d have the same problem tbh. I’m sure he would if he knew him on that level though. I linked Linus to this video on twitter just in case, maybe we can spark a future collaboration.
That wouldn’t go well.. every time Linus has someone on his channel with more insight, he gets very rude and standoffish. Remember the Louis Rossmann collab?
Unable to read the license plate number? Just say "Enhance. Enhance. Focus on this part right here. Enhance. Got it!" Works all the time in the movies so should be easy enough to implement into a $100 dashcam.
Just to serve as a control, you should compare the quality of a dSLR too. I think one real limitation with the image quality is that the sensor is just so small. Using a APC-S sized sensor, and a quality wide-angle lens, just how much better is the resulting image?
You have THE BEST comparisons to be found anywhere! You have helped me pick a radar unit and a dashcam and I'm happy with both ! V1G2 and Viofo plus. Real value in your channel and it's no surprise to see the number of sub's you have..and deserve ! Thanks Sir !
Truly impressive video from content to quality. I enjoyed learning at every minute, but it was at this minute (17:30) that I decided I must subscribe to this channel. I have noticed all these video quality challenges in my two dash cams (moving vs stationary vehicles), however, making a video this good is not an easy task.
The other reason for switching to 1440p @60FPS over 4K @30 is that you simply have more frames to choose from when freeze-framing an image. Especially with oncoming traffic, you have twice as many shots to choose from to get the best distance and best frame. ETA: I see you went over that in the "Optimizing Current Dashcams" section.
AMAZING REVIEW! Thank you! I have noticed it's either too expensive or unrealistic to being able to capture license plates. I found that its just better to read out loud tthe plate by voice and play it back via dashcam video
A dashcam isn’t just there to record license plates. A dashcam is a tool for security so that’s one layer to that security. Having multiple layers like a rear facing camera, 24/7 push notifications and parking mode add to the level of security you get, and having those extra layers cost money. Linus Tech totally did a disservice to their subscribers by insinuating it’s ok to get a cheap dashcam or worse, using a GoPro.
Great info! Way more in depth than the LTT video. They should be tagging you! Will you be reviewing the thinkware q1000? Interesting to see companies releasing new models in that 2k range. As you said, I think that's the sweet spot for performance.
This was a nice and insightful video. I'm a photographer so part of the reason I'm "tolerant" with dashcams and their quality or lack thereof, is because these are just a bunch of fixed lenses with limits. Overall, I wouldn't drive anywhere without my dashcam. But, some things I've realized not to expect. It would be nice if dashcams just had some type of "Auto" feature like on a D-SLR. Might be a thing I hope these manufacturers look into. I'll pay extra for that. Especially considering the hit and run I mentioned on your other video. Thanks for the 411. Cheers!
As usual, Linus is shooting with about 80% accuracy on the things he speaks about authoritatively. Super irritating as an IT guy to have so many coworkers and clients constantly buying bad products for home use and inappropriate products for corporate use - all because someone on TH-cam told them to. The fact that he’s now comparing dashcam video quality as though the video is being pulled for use in an IMAX film comes as no surprise at all… people really need to stop using his channel and forum as a tech bible.
It does not matter. Companies care what he says, amd will respond to that. Just like other people did. He atracted attention, and now maybe someone will do something to improve dash cams.
@@DashCamSerbia maybe.. but a good number of those companies are already active in the RDF community and respond directly to our bug reports and suggestions. Any manufacturer can quickly identify that LTT and LTT Forum is a sh*tshow of bad information coupled with over-confidence. These companies definitely wouldn’t go the way of improving the overall video quality while sacrificing the ability to read license plates effectively. Linus is basically suggesting that image sensors should be upgraded to the quality of GoPro regardless of real-world crash and insurance identification scenarios. I really would just have no interest in following the products of any brand who decides to design products to the spec suggestions of the LTT community. It would be inevitably overpriced and underperforming. There just isn’t any amount of fake carbon fiber and RGB lighting can make a dashcam better ;)
Glad you put this video together. I need some recommendations on dashcams I need a camera that has the features of a rideshare driver type camera but in addition I also need to monitor my vehicle so park mode when I am away so in case someone hits my car. Or, if my car is at a repair shop and need to make sure the mechanic is doing there jobs and not taking my car out for a joy ride. So Gps based and if possible to be able to view in real time or live view. Any recommendations?
Fabulous work...This must take hours to get all those side by side photos, very impressive. I think you should share how long this takes so people realize how much effort you have done. It would take me 40 hrs I suspect. Tks.
haha I spent all of last week on it. It's pretty tedious to grab all the footage, find all the same points in time and sync them, do all the text and license plate zoom ins, and then analyze for the notes to add to the video outline. After doing this for a few years I've got a better idea of what I'm looking for, what to test, and how to edit it together, but it's all still pretty laborious. The final product though is totally worth it. :)
I agree with some of what he said, but not everything, something I address in depth in the latter half of the video. There are many dashcams that have poor video quality, he's right, but I'm not convinced that sticking GoPro hardware in a dashcam automatically addresses the complaints Linus covered in his video. It doesn't look like he actually tried testing this out though and I'm assume if he did, his conclusion may have been a bit different.
@@VortexRadar I think you hit the nail on the head in your video as to why we are not seeing better video quality and that is because it comes down to the software that drives that sensor. Look at Google and Apple with the amount of money they spend on developing video and photo technology and software. These dash cam guys do not have that kind of money so that's where they are struggling the most. And I do not think it is any secret that GoPro has their own host of financial issues. The biggest complaints for the last few generations of GoPros have been heat and heat from the sensor combined with the heat from the Sun is just a bad recipe for dash cam reliability.
E63s Amg drop off for a week for alp’s. F and r. Owners carry “only the best” so recommended installation of black view. Have rl 360 w m1 cam corded. I feel m1 is garbage due to its tricky retrieval of info and just mass confusion and zero customer support from escort. Shld have go the blavkvue route. Going broke…. Vortex intense. Love this site
26:08 you are talking about the Starvis 2 sensor. Right now the only camera I see with a Starvis 2 sensor is the viofo A139 Pro. Would love to see the comparisons. Most will only use the new sensor on their front camera so its likely they wont bring it to their rear one for some time. Hopefully when they do its an easy plug and play
Yep I’ve got two and am actively testing them. When my kids finally stop being sick and I’m able to start resting and sleeping again, I’ll be able to resume making videos.
I was about to buy a Go Pro and a Viofo so I could attempt tp make a video explaining the difference. But I appreciate your video as you did a better job then I could have. Very detailed. Thank you for your sharing and all the work you did.
As a long time hobby photographer, I'd say I have a pretty good understanding the image capturing process and yet, my expectations for a dashcam were completely unrealistic. In order for a license plates to be resolved on a video camera, a few conditions need to be met: - sharp and fast lens -larger high resolution sensor -high sensitivity sensor to enable short shutter speed -high dynamic range -consequently, a fast processor, that is adapted to work continuously and in high and low temperatures This is the definition of impossible camera, of course you can get somewhat close to that, Sony makes some of the best low light sensors, but they do not come cheap. So, high quality parts required. I think the problem might be if you make a camera with best intentions for it to resolve as much detail as possible in every situation, it may cost $1000 when produced en masse, maybe $2000 if it's a niche, but it still won't be screamingly better than sub $100 camera, it will just be somewhat noticeably better when compared side to side. Not many people would buy it. Instead, just think of dashcams as a witness with no plate memory. Ideally, if there is an accident someone brakechecks you, stops, calls the police and tells them you rammed them. Even a potatocam is very useful, so, $100 well spent.
My Sony a7s3 camera has the best low light camera on the market currently right now, it records in almost no light conditions with 0 noise, I wish they implemented that into dash cams.
Hi and thank you for a fantastic video. As this vid is over a year old I know I may not get an answer but just in case, my question is: You showed the RedTiger 4k dash cam when talking about 2k images being “blown up” by software to 4k. Would this practice actually be detrimental to the image or would you simply stay with 2k quality? Put another way, would a 2k do better than a 2k pretending to be a 4k? Thank you again, especially if I can get an answer to this.
I would like to know which brand dashcam with the rear mounted camera was the one that got the plate number of the SUV that did the hit and run... at around 6:00 because most inexpensive dash cams dont offer a rear mounted camera...
It’s the Blackvue DR750S-2CH. You can see the camera name stamped on the video footage. That model has since been discontinued, but here is the new version: geni.us/DR750X-2CHPlus
@@VortexRadar thank you... the blackvue is no longer in my price range.. Also sorry for not seeing the bottom right of screen.. found out that viofo has a dash cam like the A119v3 with an additional rear camera while surfing amazon... Your clips are extremely informative.. The current cams I have right now are terrible at night. On coming and and rear headlights are like glowing oversized balls of light.. this makes it so you cant make out hardly anything... That's why I was impressed with the blackvue because the plates were visible while the headlights of the vehicle were shining right towards the rear camera. However I am not impressed with the newer blackvue and its cloud storage.. of this new expensive blackvue model because somewhere I think that a cloud storage fee will also be involved... and for $350 plus... i could get a viofo for my car for less than half that... and money left to buy other cams for other needs.. I wish they had a camera that does everything.. well Dash cam front and rear, security cam, body cam, with wifi and good app with good audio that you could vlog with too.. and with all the port hookups you need... one nice thing about dash cams is that they already have a lot of these Abilities like auto motion sensing/ night vision options that set themselves automatically one press on record or take picture so you can to mark /find frame in video and key ignition on.. sd card is nice to have so you can swap it out and save videos multiple file formats. Would be nice...for me cloud optional (not to thrilled with fees) An all in one camera like that would save a lot of money instead of having to buy 3 or 4 different ones... that would be the ultimate all around cam for my needs... I'd put $350 aside and save for that...
Awesome videos. I am waiting for a comparison between the Vantrue N5 (and N4 Pro) and the Viofo A229 Pro. I feel like these would/ should be the best based on hardware. It’s my understanding that the Viofo maintains the 4K resolution while in 3 channel mode, and that the Vantrue loses its resolution in more than 1 channel mode. I think the Viofo has HDR on the front and rear too, so I anticipate the Viofo may be better than the Vantrue series, despite the 4 channel set up with the N5. Can you please clarify on camera resolution vs sensor resolution? I highly value being able to snag license plates. Bonus capability is parking mode, capturing a hit and run, and not killing my battery.
Thanks for the great reviews, along with getting back so fast. I bought the A119 mini 2 for a front camera, and I'm waiting for Amazon to offer the Viofo VS1
Very well done. I wonder if automobile manufacturers will offer dashcams (or front cams) as a feature. They currently have backup cams and a few have front facing cams, but they do not record.
All 5 dashcams are great and affordable 1) Vantrue X4S, 2) GoPro Hero 10, the Hero 11 offers minor improvement but is not worth extra money, 3) Viofo A229 Plus Duo, 4) Thinkware U1000, 5) Viofo V119 V3. to greatly reduce malfunction and frying your webcam is to park your vehicle in the shade and if possible when the outdoor temperature is 80 to 120 degrees Fahrenheit is to crack/leave your windows down roughly 1/4 inch to allow heat to escape.
I drive at night time almost 90% of the time. Can you do a shootout of the best dashcams specifically for nighttime, OUTSIDE the city? Most reviews seem to be in urban areas with lots of ambient light and that simply does not apply most times for me, being in suburbs or in more rural areas.
The most important point is to have a 4k camera looking out of the back of the car. Also I much prefer the wedge cameras such as the viofo. The black vue et al are just too big and scream ‘look at me’. I can also leave the viofo in place all the time, whereas Id be wary of a bulky camera attracting the wrong attention
Thanks for all the clarifications! You've provided a lot of useful information to cover a lot of contexts we don't usually see in other reviews/videos. I can say I can make more informed decisions thanks to you. Keep up the good work!
how often would you need the thing to capture the plate as the car passes? If they crash into you, youre probably going to chase after them or youll both pull over together at the side of the road, if they hit you hard enough to incapacite the car, they will probably not going anywhere either. I think the dash cams are mainly just there to aid your version of events & not a case of if you didnt get the plate then it didnt happen.
I have a suggestion. Could we use a reasonably priced, 2nd hand smartphone as a dashcam ? Maybe a pixel device 3 ? I can see it on ebay going for around 100 usd and knowing it's prowess in lowlight conditions maybe it could be an alternative ?
Great info. The problem of having a camera with enough detail to capture those license plates is why I use a Go Pro 10 when I'm driving, and a regular (awful quality) dashcam when parked in case someone bumps into my car. But it's worth remembering just how high the quality is in something like an actioncam. The GP 10 has 5,300 lines of resolution. Just the difference in 5.3K over 4K is greater than the amount of resolution you get in a regular 1080p HD camera! And I also reduced exposure by a 1/3 of a stop on both cameras to catch those bright license plates, when they're lit up at night by headlights and in sunlight during the day.
I'm late to the dashcam scene, but you helped me decide that the A119 V3 (currently $79) was the one to put under my xmas tree. Excellent review. The only additional thing I would've liked to have seen in this review was an extra license plate sample from the A119 @ 1080p60 (the setting I've already decided I'm going to use), comparing against the other cams/resolutions/refresh rates. I have to believe the 60Hz refresh rate would do far better grabbing moving license plates than any of the other samples @ 30Hz.
I document road trips in my Sprinter, sometimes 10000 mile trips. I am more interested in glare free hi res vids than resolving license plates. Are there any dashcams that can work outside the windshield effectively?
you was surprised the go pro at 1/480th did not have as clear a picture as the others with such a fast shutter speed. but the trade off off course is you then have higher iso with more noise. you would need to find the sweet spot which would change depending on light.
Very useful videos, thanks! Been using a GoPro hero 4 as a dashcam for years, I know I know, and now the usb port is failing so seeing the a119 option is very tempting as I wouldn't have to redo the cable, mind you if there's something around the same price I could rewire 😅 Gracias
Does Nikon still exist? Sensors don't necessarily have to be digital do they? Couldn't they put an analog one in front of a digital one, to act like a lens or to feed a better quality image into the electronic sensor?
I bought a Viofo A119 v2., after 3 years of just recording interesting things I was sideswiped in a hit and run. I was able to pull the footage and had one readable frame where I got his license plate. The police gave me his info and I was able to get my truck repaired at no cost to me. The footage is on my channel.
Damn good job dude, I used to have that camera. I’m currently looking for the best plate reading one with the ability to access the footage from my phone even if I’m miles away from my car and not connected to wifi, sort of like my ring cameras
@@modernbassheads5051 hello dus you fond something
@@modernbassheads5051 Did you find a really good one for reading license plates??
Here in Sweden we can just send a text and get info about who owns a car. It costs 3sek (0.3 usd)
But the question I have for you is why did you have to contact the owner? Why didn't the cops and/or insurance company do it for you?
Edit: OK I have watched your video now. I thought that you were hit by a car side on and that it was a lot of damage. (English is my second language and I didn't read side swiped right at first). Not I understand that you didn't have to involve cops or insurance unless the owner didn't take responsibility.
@@modernbassheads5051 coming true now, ring just released its dash cam
I install high end security camera systems for the government. The technology definitely exists. I think the biggest issue is the economies of scale. There's just not enough people buying dash cams to bring the cost down to make it feasible. Our system can read plates over 150 mph clear as day. The problem is the camera alone is $13,000. Cheaper solutions are still over $1000 for the camera.
You need a sensor with a larger optic for low light. 1/3 sensor just won't let in enough light. Higher megapixels sensors will just be dividing that light between more pixels. You also need a fast processor to handle the data. None of that is cheap.
Thanks for that extra insight! Which system do you use? The Axon Fleet 3?
@@VortexRadar I install fixed lpr cameras, not mobile. It's for military application, not police. I can't say which camera I install, but look into Vigilant Solutions. That should give you an idea of the technology.
I believe they're owned by Motorola now
@@VortexRadar Its awesome to see someone talking about the Axon Fleet 3. I use a WatchGuard 4RE in my vehicle. Good cameras exist, they are just gatekept.
@@baddriversofthenorcalarea500 who makes the watch guard?
@@Fee.1 Motorola. Since you don't seem to have internet access...
I'd like to applaud the editing on this video. I know all those inset license plate images and the split screens took a ton of time and effort. Well done and very professional. It made the video far more informative and easy to digest.
Moral of the story: Run 6 dash cams if you want to completely cover your bases for all conditions.
Great video!
*Nighttime, late evening, driving with the sun to your back, hot summer days and high speed differences not included.
Great video with lots of context. My BlackVue 4k dashcam recently saved me from a scam and in my scenario the BlackVue did clearly capture the license plate so having a quality dash cam is definitely worth it.
Thank you for putting this highly informative video together. You are doing a service to the whole dashcam community (including users and manufacturers). We love LTT too and thought they made some valid points but felt they didn't go as deep in the testing and real-life experimentation as they usually do on their core PC hardware-related videos. Thanks again for your work.
In this example Linus actually represents the average buyer though so it’s worth really thinking about
@@Fee.1 then he shouldn't act as if he is an expert.
@@integralcam he didn’t say he had a phd in dashcams y’all act like babies it’s insane grow up and move on
@@Fee.1 @Fee is this personal for you? Vortex radar did an excellent professional job with this video. Am I not allowed to be excited by his video that I felt did a tremendous job commenting on a video that we know reaches millions of people who are going to take his word on any subject? shouldn't bother you that some TH-camrs who make content based around dashcams wanted to give their input on the subject.
@@integralcam you can praise Vortex Radar all you want and it didn’t require trashing Linus, as should have been evident by Ari not doing so himself in this video. I want him to prosper and have the ability to work with giant youtubers that could massively boost his audience…not have said youtubers see a bunch of personal attacks in the comments.
I say again, he didn’t present himself as a expert on dashcams. He made it clear he had no idea what to buy and was testing a bunch of options. I say the following again as well, people who respond to videos like this by trash talking either content creator need to grow up. That goes for Linus Stans that may come here and talk shit and vice versa and I am confident beyond a shadow of a doubt Vortex agrees.
I would have loved to seen the cop's reaction when you showed him the hit-and-run footage... from 6 dashcams.
I would not show cop squat....EVER!
@@borg386 Talking to a cop can either be very beneficial or cost you your freedom. Not everyone is good, but that doesn’t make everyone your enemy
This was the perfect video to follow Linus' dashcam video, thank you! My first thought when watching Linus' dashcam quality review the other day was "I wish Vortex would do a in depth dashcam quality review!", and here you are 😁.
I'm also a Viofo A129 owner since 2019, still the best cam to date.
what about the Viofo A229 that he had in his demonstration? is that one good too?
@@yolandagomez9255 Anything on the A229?
It is surprising that GoPro hasn't entered the car cam market. I've been loyal to Viofo a119 cams since 2016 & I'm now using one front & one rear.
Where do you attach the rear camera?
I suspect it's because the lower margins in the car cam market. In order to have a good enough picture quality in all lighting conditions, you'd need a jack-of-all-trades system. GoPro is excellent in its daytime high bitrate and framerate application, but I doubt they would'd be good at dashcam.
I tried four generations of GoPros because I'm an idiot. They were all buggy, turning off whenever they wanted, not powering up whenever they wanted, acting bricked, then hours later working fine. Yes, good quality video, but you just never knew if they were actually working. Never again!
Thanks for this video, you've greatly improved my understanding of dashcam pros and cons. Of your videos that I have watched I consider this to be one of your best.
WOW! What a video! This is more clear and more thorough than any information on the topic I’ve seen from anyone! THANK YOU! And thank you for not splitting it into multiple videos, when that might have been tempting. It’s great to have it all in one place.
I've got the Viofo A119 Pro Duo and I found it quite peculiar that my rear 2k footage is able to capture a license plate while my front 4k footage can't. This has happened more times than I can count. Pretty cool to see that I'm not the only one that this happens to.
Oh goodness this is such an in-depth review. Thank you for sharing this knowledge and presented it in such a careful and professional way. Much appreciated!
This was a REALLY good video. You did a great job pointing out all the different factors that people sometimes misunderstand or misinterpret when evaluating video quality. One other thing that I think might be a factor in dashcam development is the lack of a market for high end dashcams. Just like in 3D printers, dashcams had a "race to the bottom" where people were willing to pay $100 for a dashcam, but not more, so the majority of development went into cost savings rather than quality improvement.
Dashcams and security cameras have a lot in common, and one of the new trends in security cameras is to use 2 lenses (one wide angle one telephoto) and 2 sensors to simultaneously capture the same scene. I think this tech could be a huge benefit for dashcams and while not every plate would be captured due to the lower FoV of the telephoto lens you'd still get clear picture from a sweet spot in the scene, combine that with the fact that you could set up the telephoto sensor to have a higher shutter speed and HLC and you could really sell it as a "license plate camera".
yeah linus pretty much gave all the info i knew from watching you. Thanks for keeping us up to date, great info, keep it up.
7:02 The solution that has worked for me in this scenario is changing my settings to -1 ev as well as using a polarizer. This darkens it enough to see plates at night. My DOD LS360W with a 140* FOV was the best at capturing plates during the day and at night for me. Out on the highway in the dark it could capture plates if you match the speed of the vehicle next to you momentarily in the FOV.
I recently got the VIOFO A129 Pro Duo 4K 2-Channel Dash Cam with GPS after watching your channel. I've been VERY happy with this dashcam compared to the cheapo under $50 cameras I've had in the past. My new cam isn't premium, but it is really good.
My new personal strategy with license plates is (if possible) to read the plate number out loud so it's in the audio of my clip. I also say other details that the video may not catch. I haven't done that in the past, and later realized that the video missed details.
Your channel has been very helpful to me in the setup of my dashcams and radar detector. THANK YOU...
That’s fairly premium tbh
@@Fee.1 I was going to say the same lol
@@Fee.1 .. Yeah.. That's why i went with the A129 Duo Plus... To get the dual camera with decent video and also start using parking mode. What i liked about the duo plus is they moved the video processing for the rear camera into the rear camera and lighten the load on the front camera.
What do you use on your bike? GoPro?
@@mpcp27 yea that’s a nice feature. I imagine it can help with overheating slightly too
I feel like one of the biggest areas they can improve is moving all the processing to a remote unit that can stay cool, make the camera modules just modules that are the sensor and lens.
I still have a koonlung K1S dashcam because to date really been the only unit that fits that bill. Still works to, though after about 6 years it's a bit dated and starting to have issues. but it has saved me twice in the 2 times i was rear ended.
Honestly my dream unit would be a 2 channel kit with these new starvis 2 sensors, and a remote CPU to process and image enhance as well as handle data storage.
Something else that could potentially leap frog things is if someone can figure out how to use a true 4k sensor to capture 4 1080p images at different exposures to do WDR/HDR by splicing those images back afterwards then you likely would remove the ghosting and be able to get an even wider range than the current offerings (since they try to use 2 frames to combine into one).
If you have audio, it's wise to say the license plate aloud at least twice in case the camera doesn't pick it up. Dash cams really need to be outside the glass, not inside.
If the dashcams were outside, you'd have to yell out that license plate number quite loud indeed! lol
@@imjodyOnly the interior cameras have audio, but thanks for playing.
That’s genius, Thank you!
@@theamerican7080 if its outside the glass, its going to have to fight environmental things. Like rocks, sticks, sun, rain etc...
@@MuiKaHo The same environmental hazards the windshield is exposed to- got it. My point was that no matter how you mount the camera behind the windshield, you're going to have some image loss and distortion capturing video through what is essentially 3 more layers of transparent material, not including coatings and tints applied to windshields at the factory, plus the glare from irregular angles and interior lighting.
Hey Ariel, as always your videos are great! Thank you for putting together this video in response to LTT. Both of you made some great valid points on dash cam quality. While we do think video quality is important, it's only just a part of what makes up a great dash cam; something that LTT's video does not necessarily go into either.
Don't think anyone else could have put together a better video explaining the importance of dash cam features and their implications in the real world. Keep up the good work!
This channel sent me to your website, where I purchased my dashcam. Very happy with the product and your service!
I linked you on twitter right after it came out too!
People who have dash cam channels actually want the best video quality possible.
@@DashCamSerbia It is very subjective. I have been using dash cameras for 10 years now, and while video quality is very important, other features are very important also. I had my car vandalized a few years ago, a small dent on a rear panel. I didn't even notice it, but because my (at the time) thinkware U1000 prioritized saving parking mode videos, and had sensed the impact of it, I was able to look back and find the footage from 2 weeks ago still on my memory card. Since it was ruled vandalism by my insurance with the video proof, they did not raise my rates. It saved me money having those extra features. That camera didn't have the best video quality possible, but it still saved me money on an insurance claim, which is my ultimate goal owning dash cams.
@@integralcam I don't even use parking mode, I don't even leave the camera in the car over night. I don't want some kid or whoever to break into my ca over a 50$ dash cam.
Ariel, thanks for taking the time to put together this video. It was very informative.
A very honest and extremely well researched presentation of options. Much appreciated by someone who just acquired their first dashcam (Redtiger F7NP - Not even mentioned :-:)) for Christmas. Your honest assessments, and detail analysis, are very much appreciated.
I use the hero 10 as a motorcycle vlogging camera. It’s insane how good 5.3k 60 and 4K 120fps looks…almost as insane as how it all falls apart after nightfall unless I switch to 24FPS…and even then it’s meh
How is it at capturing license plates?
@@VortexRadar before the firmware updates for the overheating it was pretty terrible because I couldn’t record in 4K 60 or 120 for more than a few minutes, let alone 5k 60, after it’s as good as I’ve seen for daytime use. It all falls apart at night unless you’re willing to pull some data from the footage in post like you did in this video but that’s not really realistic for most people, in the end unfortunately the practicality of the GoPro isn’t there for dashcam use, it makes sense for motoryclylists just because it’s much easier to remember to turn it on when it’s mounted to your helmet
Also I disable hypersmooth, I don’t want any artificial blurring added by the camera for smoothness or any other sake and GoPro hypersmooth sacrifices ALL for smoothness
I’m quite happy with the Innov K5 for my motorcycle dash cam although there’s not a lot to choose from for bikes. I use a Hero 9 for recording track day stuff
@@davidcrosthwaite have you looked at dedicated bike camera setups? Is the k5 one?
Look into a portable camera that uses a full frame sensor, not sure if it exists yet but look up night time
Footage of Sony a7s3 / a7s2 , it records in basically 0 light conditions with no noise, if only go pro could do that
You had commented that the Viofo A119 v3 is your favorite ~$100 dashcam. One thing you didn't really touch on: what would be your favorite dashcam overall?
I've been researching dashcams for myself for a couple years. It becomes mind boggling to decide... there's so much knockoff junk out there. Watching reviews, reading reviews, researching individual features of every manufacturer. Then watching actual recorded footage...for a couple years! I had a couple in mind recently and wanted to pull the trigger but still couldn't decide. Cost wasn't an issue so that was off the table. I even tried using an old smartphone and played with the idea of my GoPro, but like you very plainly explained, they just aren't made for dashcam purposes. Then I stumbled onto Linus' video a couple weeks ago. I finally decided, that day, on the Viofo A129 Plus Duo Dual. I want front
ear capability. I'm waiting for it to arrive and now I see YOUR video. I'm happy that I went with that Viofo A129. Thanks man! Great channel. 👌
Did you end up liking the vifio?
@Phillip Banes how is the Garmin? I have the 67w but it has battery versus capacitor. The Garmin li poly battery would die in one or two Summers in Texas when compared to super capacitor
@@batman.._ I haven't had a single issue with it. It's working great.
tbh i think you sound a lot like dr mike israetal from renaissance periodization, really informative video and very very open and in-depth explanations of content. great respect for others and a very unbiased way of presenting good information! thank you for being a channel that doesn't just talk smack for cash!
Awesome video Vortex! These explains everything I needed to know about the dash cams advantages and limitations. I’m ok with the choice I made which is the Vantrue N4, instead of having to pay much more for a higher resolution and more expensive dash cam that will have many of the same shortcomings of a cheaper one. You are the best!
5 dash CAMs recording a hit and run LOL dude you are amazing
For regular driver just having a camera is more important than high resolution. It's only needed when there is hit and run accident, but if vehicle stay put after, the movement before is more important. It's like having the gun for self-defense; even small caliber may suffice as long as you have it.
I just wanted to add that for me more important is the view of my driver side window when talking to the police officers with more cops going rouge these days. Also powering camera should be important because the engine is turn off during encounter and camera may shot down and not to record it
what I was looking for was Dash Cam to deal with police encounters and speeding disputes. If you can prove you weren't speeding with a dash cam because lying police are everywhere. I can't believe this issue isn't addressed in any of the videos I've seen so far, too many people living in their urbanite bubble
Honestly it seems like the solution is to use 2 specialized sensors, then have each recognize a day or night mode based on headlight state.
1- A wider field of view camera that maintain short exposure times for fluid video playback (a summary camera.)
2- A narrower field of view camera that specializes in specifically capturing license plates (a plate camera.)
When the headlight state switches on (this is a single wire-to-ground check for an open circuit), you could theoretically alternate the camera settings and if needed, start a new file with new encoding:
1A- The summary camera can maintain a bit longer exposure times at night for scene layout and determining fault, but with image processing intended for nighttime.
2A- The plate camera can have much lower exposure times at night, intending to specifically replicate how the gopro was able to see retroreflective or well lit areas only, making it better at capturing plates, then be further optimized with a bit of post processing as well.
I don't think a resolution higher than 1440p is really needed, as it mostly benefits the stationary camera, which was readable at 1080p and above in most cases.
As for heat.. Seriously, mount these in a box, not on a swivel ball. A good camera is worth a few bolt holes, especially if you had a standardized mount and left that in the vehicle during resale. But mounted in a box to the roof above the windshield (or on the dash, but sunlight may be a heat and UV issue there), it should be pretty simple to strap a rear-mounted heatsink for cooling the dual cameras.
Is it going to cost more? Absolutely. Would I buy it instead of the crappy cameras that barely work that I'm not buying? Absolutely. Give me two of these, for the two vehicles in my home, and then two of the crappy ones for rear cameras, since I only want rear cameras for determining fault. If the person runs, they'll almost certainly go by the front camera.
It's $1,000 for two of these? Well, so is my deductible for ONE of the vehicles. So let's consider it half the price of getting hit ONCE. Still I would buy them if they were actually tailor made for the application.
Great video! You accurately went into detail about the dashcams that have been on the market for many years. I loved the amount of testing you did! Great work!
I know this isn't a new video. I stumbled upon this looking for info on dash cams. I watch Linus's first then saw yours. Yours is better you do not have a condescending tone to your voice. Checked your list for cams and I am going with your Pro pick. Can these be wired to record while your car is constantly parked not just for a time period? Sorry I am still learning about all of this.
Ah thank you. Welcome. Yeah you can wire it to your car battery or a dedicated battery pack (I’m working on a video about these now) and run the dashcam until either your car battery drops too low or until the dashcam battery fully empties.
@@VortexRadar Ty very much!
23:33 "I like to avoid any of the artificial resolutions." Good point. It reminds me of my favorite camera tip for people: Don't use the pretend zoom-in function on your phone's camera. All that does is permanently crop your photo, and you likely will be better off just cropping later with basic gallery tools.
I've had dash cams on every vehicle I've owned for last 10 yrs now with no real incidence to talk about. A few months ago, I'm on vacation in Dallas and the hotel parking lot gets vandalized. We wake up to cops everywhere. Turns out 4 trucks had their catalytic converters stolen. One of the trucks was parked infront of me! I'm thinking I can be the hero, i can solve this case! I go talk to the cops and we pulled my Thinkware Q800PRO videos. And strike! It Captures the crime, the thieves car even pulls right infront of me! A dodge charger. Got em! Only to be disappointed that the video was too grainy to read the license plates. Two shadowy figures in hoodys and facemasks did the crime... I could feel the disappoint from the cop voice as I emailed him a copy of the video. So yeah, i understand Linus frustration. Buy the cheapest one to capture accident and see who's at fault and forget about the gimmicks.
Sounds like the solution would be to have a few sensor/lens combos that are optimized for different situations.
If you attach an aluminum case to the gopro and remove the battery; powering it only with the USB cable, the overheating problem goes away.
Sounds like you need two cameras, one for a narrower field of view for more detail in the central area of vision and one to give less detail in peripheral vision.
This is how cellphones have worked for a number of generations; would be cool to see this trickle into dashcams, too.
Just wanted to say thank you. This did a great job explaining Linus' video (which was rather confusing) and making me confirm my choice of the VIOFO A119
In my personal case I have to use my older phone and it looks great absolutely much better and I only need 1440p resolution for get the details of resolution needed
thanks for continuing Linus'es pov, your vid actually is much better from any perspective, thanks !!
I saw the LTT video as well (love them) and immediately hoped you would follow it up. Did not disappoint!
I will say that I have purchased 2 Viofo dash cams after watching content here and both have absolutely let me down. The A129 pro duo has major overheating issues and is literally a fire hazard and never runs for more than 5 minutes without thermal shut down. The A119V3 was good until it fell off the windshield and hit the dashboard. And now it is stuck in an endless bootloop. I guess buy cheap, buy twice applies to dash cams too. Shame. Good video quality but terrible reliability.
Anyway, thanks for all your hard work and keep the videos coming!
Try cleaning the window next time with stoner glass cleaner, if not you prob got a faulty mount
The problem with GoPro sensor is that the size of its IMX677 sensor is 1/2.3", which is slightly larger than the 1/2.8" sized IMX335 sensor. However, at 24 megapixels, the size of each pixel on the IMX667 is 1.1 um (micron/micrometer), whereas the IMX335's 5 MP sensor results in each pixel being 2 um big. Bigger pixel size should result in better low light performance, right?
So I think that an easy way to improve dashcam low light performance with is to use larger sensors without going too high in the megapixel count. Not many dashcams are using larger sensors probably for cost reasons. The U1000 uses the IMX334 sensor which is 1/1.8", slightly larger than the IMX677, which at 8MP, has 2 um sized pixels. Looking at the IMX334 spec sheet, I notice that it has 2/2 pixel binning mode. I assume it this means it can combine an array of 2x2 pixels into one pixel that's effectively 4 um wide. I wonder if the U1000 takes advantage of this binning feature when running in 1080P mode?...
This video was amazing. I loved everything about it. As someone who is thinking of getting a dash cam now though I definitely feel like I should wait for that new sony chip you mentioned to be released on products, and to add on to that fact I really can’t wait for you to get your hands on some when they do first come out so I can see a good review just like this video and really make up my mind and hopefully they will be the best they’ve ever been at that point!
Hi. You are 100% correct in your findings. Looking into this sort of kit myself. There is software that can focus on letters and numbers BUT at this time it is expensive and out of dash cam manufactures price range. Keep up the good work.
Seems like it is time for an image sensor designed specifically for a dash camera. Also, some 5houfht should be given to normal focal lengths vs. wide view vocal lengths. Finally, as you do well highlighted, frame rates and contrast ratios need to be well chosen. Gimmicks lick HDR which may work well for still frames are not optimal for high frame rate video.
Great job.
as for the focal length - do what smartphones do, more individual sensors with different lenses...
If you were helping your mother, sister, daughter or wife...which CAM? Getting dizzy with all the info and fast talking 😅 thx u
So I put a link to my video on the recommended dashcams right in the top of the video description for you. You can check out that video here:
th-cam.com/video/nrvTxCEBbek/w-d-xo.html
There are computational methods to greatly improve upon some of those raw license plate captures. If you can guess the relative motion of the blurred object, you can create a mathematical description of the blur, and apply the opposite operation to undo the blur. The result won't be perfect, but many details in the blurred image were just spread over multiple pixels in a predictable manner, and they can be consolidated to unblur the image.
@Phillip Banes Perinne here, I got a notification about your comment but can't reply because yesterday Vortex Radar deleted my comments and blocked me from commenting, doing to others what he wouldn't want done to himself.
Anyway, good question, I think we should ask an even broader question; can an inanimate object i.e. a camera be a witness? There are varying opinions about this. Some say that only a flesh and blood human being can be a witness.
@@anti-vaxxer why did he block your comment ? Also my brain just expanded by 13 cells after reading your motion blur comment
Excellent video! I've been experimenting with dash cams and gopro's for a while now and its been the bane of my existence! Daytime is easy to dial in, but night time is where the problems start for ALL of these cameras. I've went through dozens of dash cams and havent been happy with the quality of any of them even after post processing. The gopro's have the stabilization down quite well but the night time quality is bad, I dont care how anyone looks at it, its just bad. I have to monitor my gopro's like a hawk when filming because of what you mentioned, the overheating but ALSO the quikpro app is notorious for disconnecting and turning off recording. I cant wait to actually find something high quality for night time.
Well this video really shows that dash cams for all their problems really do a pretty great job considering all the things we expect of them. I have a feeling that if people were willing to pay a $1,000 for dash cams we could make better cameras but how many people are willing to pay that cost? My guess is not enough to make it worth doing. I know, we need apple (barf) to make the AppleCam (double barf) for cars, lol.
Just like there are people willing to pay 1.000$+ for a phone, there are also enthusiasts who would be willing to pay similar price for the best of the best dash cam.
@@DashCamSerbia I would say that many people who buy $1000+ phones, especially the latest iPhones do so because it is more of a status symbol rather than being a phone enthusiast.
@vortexradar Does the screen 'sleep' to showing your mph when driving? I find that really useful!
Great video! I think the ideal dashcam would be low resolution, large sensor, high shutter speed. This would allow low light footage to be MUCH better, and it makes it easier to catch plates.
I don’t think high resolution cameras are necessary for dashcams, it seems more like the high resolution cams that exist are kinda “brute forcing” their way through their limitations.
For an extreme example think of the A7s series of cameras. Low resolution massive sensor means AMAZING low light and high shutter speed footage.
EDIT: Phones also do a ton of computational photography. This requires an expensive processor, and a ton of R&D to program such behaviors. Definitely wouldn’t fit in the typical dashcam price point. Even the expertise to make such a thing isn’t that common. I think it would be easier, but still more expensive, to use a larger sensor.
If they put my Sony a7s sensor In a dash cam it would be sold out in 5 minutes
It is possible to turn on gopro with a car, everything you need is gopro labs firmware. You can also add date/time and speed overlay
Thanks for the heads up
would love to have seen LTT reach out to you for a colab on this topic! you have so much more in depth testing and knowledge on this topic and radar detectors.
That man is so busy right now I think it’s hard for him to keep up with much outside of LTT, and I’d have the same problem tbh. I’m sure he would if he knew him on that level though. I linked Linus to this video on twitter just in case, maybe we can spark a future collaboration.
@@Fee.1 I linked to it on linustechtips forums.. higher chance of it being seen there. LTT has a forum post for every video they make.
That wouldn’t go well.. every time Linus has someone on his channel with more insight, he gets very rude and standoffish. Remember the Louis Rossmann collab?
Thanks for sharing it there Nick!
What about High end stereo headunits like Kenwood Excelon that have external dashcams?
Unable to read the license plate number? Just say "Enhance. Enhance. Focus on this part right here. Enhance. Got it!"
Works all the time in the movies so should be easy enough to implement into a $100 dashcam.
🤣
Just to serve as a control, you should compare the quality of a dSLR too. I think one real limitation with the image quality is that the sensor is just so small. Using a APC-S sized sensor, and a quality wide-angle lens, just how much better is the resulting image?
Best video to date... BRAVO!!
Thank you!
You have THE BEST comparisons to be found anywhere! You have helped me pick a radar unit and a dashcam and I'm happy with both ! V1G2 and Viofo plus. Real value in your channel and it's no surprise to see the number of sub's you have..and deserve ! Thanks Sir !
Watching the LTT video and this Vortex video back to back should be required viewing for anyone thinking about getting a dash cam.
Truly impressive video from content to quality. I enjoyed learning at every minute, but it was at this minute (17:30) that I decided I must subscribe to this channel. I have noticed all these video quality challenges in my two dash cams (moving vs stationary vehicles), however, making a video this good is not an easy task.
The other reason for switching to 1440p @60FPS over 4K @30 is that you simply have more frames to choose from when freeze-framing an image. Especially with oncoming traffic, you have twice as many shots to choose from to get the best distance and best frame.
ETA: I see you went over that in the "Optimizing Current Dashcams" section.
AMAZING REVIEW! Thank you! I have noticed it's either too expensive or unrealistic to being able to capture license plates. I found that its just better to read out loud tthe plate by voice and play it back via dashcam video
A dashcam isn’t just there to record license plates. A dashcam is a tool for security so that’s one layer to that security. Having multiple layers like a rear facing camera, 24/7 push notifications and parking mode add to the level of security you get, and having those extra layers cost money. Linus Tech totally did a disservice to their subscribers by insinuating it’s ok to get a cheap dashcam or worse, using a GoPro.
Great info! Way more in depth than the LTT video. They should be tagging you!
Will you be reviewing the thinkware q1000? Interesting to see companies releasing new models in that 2k range. As you said, I think that's the sweet spot for performance.
All in all, it’s better to have a dashcam in the car than without one.
This was a nice and insightful video. I'm a photographer so part of the reason I'm "tolerant" with dashcams and their quality or lack thereof, is because these are just a bunch of fixed lenses with limits. Overall, I wouldn't drive anywhere without my dashcam. But, some things I've realized not to expect.
It would be nice if dashcams just had some type of "Auto" feature like on a D-SLR. Might be a thing I hope these manufacturers look into. I'll pay extra for that. Especially considering the hit and run I mentioned on your other video.
Thanks for the 411. Cheers!
As usual, Linus is shooting with about 80% accuracy on the things he speaks about authoritatively. Super irritating as an IT guy to have so many coworkers and clients constantly buying bad products for home use and inappropriate products for corporate use - all because someone on TH-cam told them to. The fact that he’s now comparing dashcam video quality as though the video is being pulled for use in an IMAX film comes as no surprise at all… people really need to stop using his channel and forum as a tech bible.
It does not matter. Companies care what he says, amd will respond to that. Just like other people did. He atracted attention, and now maybe someone will do something to improve dash cams.
@@DashCamSerbia maybe.. but a good number of those companies are already active in the RDF community and respond directly to our bug reports and suggestions. Any manufacturer can quickly identify that LTT and LTT Forum is a sh*tshow of bad information coupled with over-confidence. These companies definitely wouldn’t go the way of improving the overall video quality while sacrificing the ability to read license plates effectively. Linus is basically suggesting that image sensors should be upgraded to the quality of GoPro regardless of real-world crash and insurance identification scenarios.
I really would just have no interest in following the products of any brand who decides to design products to the spec suggestions of the LTT community. It would be inevitably overpriced and underperforming. There just isn’t any amount of fake carbon fiber and RGB lighting can make a dashcam better ;)
@@UTR1 make your own video and findings then come back here.
Glad you put this video together. I need some recommendations on dashcams
I need a camera that has the features of a rideshare driver type camera but in addition I also need to monitor my vehicle so park mode when I am away so in case someone hits my car. Or, if my car is at a repair shop and need to make sure the mechanic is doing there jobs and not taking my car out for a joy ride.
So Gps based and if possible to be able to view in real time or live view.
Any recommendations?
I watched this Linus Tech Tips video the other week and was curious if you'd ever see it.
Fabulous work...This must take hours to get all those side by side photos, very impressive. I think you should share how long this takes so people realize how much effort you have done. It would take me 40 hrs I suspect. Tks.
haha I spent all of last week on it. It's pretty tedious to grab all the footage, find all the same points in time and sync them, do all the text and license plate zoom ins, and then analyze for the notes to add to the video outline. After doing this for a few years I've got a better idea of what I'm looking for, what to test, and how to edit it together, but it's all still pretty laborious. The final product though is totally worth it. :)
Linus is a clown.
I agree with some of what he said, but not everything, something I address in depth in the latter half of the video. There are many dashcams that have poor video quality, he's right, but I'm not convinced that sticking GoPro hardware in a dashcam automatically addresses the complaints Linus covered in his video. It doesn't look like he actually tried testing this out though and I'm assume if he did, his conclusion may have been a bit different.
@@VortexRadar I think you hit the nail on the head in your video as to why we are not seeing better video quality and that is because it comes down to the software that drives that sensor. Look at Google and Apple with the amount of money they spend on developing video and photo technology and software. These dash cam guys do not have that kind of money so that's where they are struggling the most. And I do not think it is any secret that GoPro has their own host of financial issues. The biggest complaints for the last few generations of GoPros have been heat and heat from the sensor combined with the heat from the Sun is just a bad recipe for dash cam reliability.
E63s Amg drop off for a week for alp’s. F and r. Owners carry “only the best” so recommended installation of black view. Have rl 360 w m1 cam corded. I feel m1 is garbage due to its tricky retrieval of info and just mass confusion and zero customer support from escort. Shld have go the blavkvue route. Going broke…. Vortex intense. Love this site
Top notch channel when it comes to testing products and theories as well least bias presentation of the products in each video.
26:08 you are talking about the Starvis 2 sensor. Right now the only camera I see with a Starvis 2 sensor is the viofo A139 Pro. Would love to see the comparisons. Most will only use the new sensor on their front camera so its likely they wont bring it to their rear one for some time. Hopefully when they do its an easy plug and play
Yep I’ve got two and am actively testing them. When my kids finally stop being sick and I’m able to start resting and sleeping again, I’ll be able to resume making videos.
I was about to buy a Go Pro and a Viofo so I could attempt tp make a video explaining the difference. But I appreciate your video as you did a better job then I could have. Very detailed. Thank you for your sharing and all the work you did.
12:22 What is that device below your GoPro ?
12:26 What are these both two? Which app is running on the phone ?
As a long time hobby photographer, I'd say I have a pretty good understanding the image capturing process and yet, my expectations for a dashcam were completely unrealistic. In order for a license plates to be resolved on a video camera, a few conditions need to be met:
- sharp and fast lens
-larger high resolution sensor
-high sensitivity sensor to enable short shutter speed
-high dynamic range
-consequently, a fast processor, that is adapted to work continuously and in high and low temperatures
This is the definition of impossible camera, of course you can get somewhat close to that, Sony makes some of the best low light sensors, but they do not come cheap.
So, high quality parts required. I think the problem might be if you make a camera with best intentions for it to resolve as much detail as possible in every situation, it may cost $1000 when produced en masse, maybe $2000 if it's a niche, but it still won't be screamingly better than sub $100 camera, it will just be somewhat noticeably better when compared side to side. Not many people would buy it.
Instead, just think of dashcams as a witness with no plate memory. Ideally, if there is an accident someone brakechecks you, stops, calls the police and tells them you rammed them. Even a potatocam is very useful, so, $100 well spent.
My Sony a7s3 camera has the best low light camera on the market currently right now, it records in almost no light conditions with 0 noise, I wish they implemented that into dash cams.
Hi and thank you for a fantastic video. As this vid is over a year old I know I may not get an answer but just in case, my question is: You showed the RedTiger 4k dash cam when talking about 2k images being “blown up” by software to 4k. Would this practice actually be detrimental to the image or would you simply stay with 2k quality? Put another way, would a 2k do better than a 2k pretending to be a 4k?
Thank you again, especially if I can get an answer to this.
I would like to know which brand dashcam with the rear mounted camera was the one that got the plate number of the SUV that did the hit and run... at around 6:00 because most inexpensive dash cams dont offer a rear mounted camera...
It’s the Blackvue DR750S-2CH. You can see the camera name stamped on the video footage. That model has since been discontinued, but here is the new version: geni.us/DR750X-2CHPlus
@@VortexRadar thank you... the blackvue is no longer in my price range..
Also sorry for not seeing the bottom right of screen.. found out that viofo has a dash cam like the A119v3 with an additional rear camera while surfing amazon...
Your clips are extremely informative..
The current cams I have right now are terrible at night. On coming and and rear headlights are like glowing oversized balls of light.. this makes it so you cant make out hardly anything...
That's why I was impressed with the blackvue because the plates were visible while the headlights of the vehicle were shining right towards the rear camera.
However I am not impressed with the newer blackvue and its cloud storage.. of this new expensive blackvue model because somewhere I think that a cloud storage fee will also be involved... and for $350 plus... i could get a viofo for my car for less than half that... and money left to buy other cams for other needs..
I wish they had a camera that does everything.. well
Dash cam front and rear, security cam, body cam, with wifi and good app with good audio that you could vlog with too.. and with all the port hookups you need... one nice thing about dash cams is that they already have a lot of these Abilities like auto motion sensing/ night vision options that set themselves automatically one press on record or take picture so you can to mark /find frame in video and key ignition on.. sd card is nice to have so you can swap it out and save videos multiple file formats. Would be nice...for me cloud optional (not to thrilled with fees)
An all in one camera like that would save a lot of money instead of having to buy 3 or 4 different ones... that would be the ultimate all around cam for my needs... I'd put $350 aside and save for that...
Awesome videos.
I am waiting for a comparison between the Vantrue N5 (and N4 Pro) and the Viofo A229 Pro.
I feel like these would/ should be the best based on hardware.
It’s my understanding that the Viofo maintains the 4K resolution while in 3 channel mode, and that the Vantrue loses its resolution in more than 1 channel mode.
I think the Viofo has HDR on the front and rear too, so I anticipate the Viofo may be better than the Vantrue series, despite the 4 channel set up with the N5.
Can you please clarify on camera resolution vs sensor resolution?
I highly value being able to snag license plates.
Bonus capability is parking mode, capturing a hit and run, and not killing my battery.
Thanks for the great reviews, along with getting back so fast. I bought the A119 mini 2 for a front camera, and I'm waiting for Amazon to offer the Viofo VS1
Bro, thanks for testing all that. It really saves all of us lots of hustle and guesswork. Big thanks, buddy. Keep them coming.....
I think u should start a go fund me, or kick starter for the perfect dash cam because with ur knowledge you’ll put all the others to shame
Very well done. I wonder if automobile manufacturers will offer dashcams (or front cams) as a feature. They currently have backup cams and a few have front facing cams, but they do not record.
All 5 dashcams are great and affordable 1) Vantrue X4S, 2) GoPro Hero 10, the Hero 11 offers minor improvement but is not worth extra money, 3) Viofo A229 Plus Duo, 4) Thinkware U1000, 5) Viofo V119 V3. to greatly reduce malfunction and frying your webcam is to park your vehicle in the shade and if possible when the outdoor temperature is 80 to 120 degrees Fahrenheit is to crack/leave your windows down roughly 1/4 inch to allow heat to escape.
what do you think about the review mirror dashcams. I'm looking at them for my aunt and one for my 22 Maverick when I get it?
I drive at night time almost 90% of the time. Can you do a shootout of the best dashcams specifically for nighttime, OUTSIDE the city? Most reviews seem to be in urban areas with lots of ambient light and that simply does not apply most times for me, being in suburbs or in more rural areas.
The most important point is to have a 4k camera looking out of the back of the car. Also I much prefer the wedge cameras such as the viofo. The black vue et al are just too big and scream ‘look at me’. I can also leave the viofo in place all the time, whereas Id be wary of a bulky camera attracting the wrong attention
Thanks for all the clarifications! You've provided a lot of useful information to cover a lot of contexts we don't usually see in other reviews/videos. I can say I can make more informed decisions thanks to you. Keep up the good work!
Eye opener most definitely! Researching now for first dashcam...so much info to process...😁.
Outstanding presentation! Thanks!
how often would you need the thing to capture the plate as the car passes? If they crash into you, youre probably going to chase after them or youll both pull over together at the side of the road, if they hit you hard enough to incapacite the car, they will probably not going anywhere either. I think the dash cams are mainly just there to aid your version of events & not a case of if you didnt get the plate then it didnt happen.
I have a suggestion. Could we use a reasonably priced, 2nd hand smartphone as a dashcam ? Maybe a pixel device 3 ? I can see it on ebay going for around 100 usd and knowing it's prowess in lowlight conditions maybe it could be an alternative ?
hehe I just did a video about that
th-cam.com/video/1u-9hp_tjM4/w-d-xo.html
Great info. The problem of having a camera with enough detail to capture those license plates is why I use a Go Pro 10 when I'm driving, and a regular (awful quality) dashcam when parked in case someone bumps into my car.
But it's worth remembering just how high the quality is in something like an actioncam. The GP 10 has 5,300 lines of resolution. Just the difference in 5.3K over 4K is greater than the amount of resolution you get in a regular 1080p HD camera!
And I also reduced exposure by a 1/3 of a stop on both cameras to catch those bright license plates, when they're lit up at night by headlights and in sunlight during the day.
I'm late to the dashcam scene, but you helped me decide that the A119 V3 (currently $79) was the one to put under my xmas tree. Excellent review. The only additional thing I would've liked to have seen in this review was an extra license plate sample from the A119 @ 1080p60 (the setting I've already decided I'm going to use), comparing against the other cams/resolutions/refresh rates. I have to believe the 60Hz refresh rate would do far better grabbing moving license plates than any of the other samples @ 30Hz.
I document road trips in my Sprinter, sometimes 10000 mile trips. I am more interested in glare free hi res vids than resolving license plates. Are there any dashcams that can work outside the windshield effectively?
Excellent video overall! Thanks! Looking forward to the Starvis 2 sensors being used in dashcams now!
Really great & comprehensive video! Thanks so much for producing & posting it!
👍👍
you was surprised the go pro at 1/480th did not have as clear a picture as the others with such a fast shutter speed. but the trade off off course is you then have higher iso with more noise. you would need to find the sweet spot which would change depending on light.
Very useful videos, thanks!
Been using a GoPro hero 4 as a dashcam for years, I know I know, and now the usb port is failing so seeing the a119 option is very tempting as I wouldn't have to redo the cable, mind you if there's something around the same price I could rewire 😅
Gracias
Does Nikon still exist? Sensors don't necessarily have to be digital do they? Couldn't they put an analog one in front of a digital one, to act like a lens or to feed a better quality image into the electronic sensor?