Quick update here - while the strings I'm using in this video (Sensicores, made by the now defunct D'Addario) are no longer available, you can now get a custom made set of octave viola strings from French luthier Eliakim Boussoir. I am using a set of his on my instrument now, and they sound lovely and are far more durable than the old Sensicore strings. If you're interested in getting a set, contact Eliakim via his website at: www.atelier-boussoir.fr/
Holy shit that sounds angelic. As a violist first and cellist as my second instrument, playing the cello suites on a octave string viola is now on my bucket list
Interessting! I tried something similar. Took my 16“-Inch viola and tuned the „normal“ viola strings a fourth deeper to G-D-A-E, so It’s an octave deeper than the Violine. It works! Now, i can play violin-pieces as e.g. Bach, with a nearly similar Sound as the Cello.
@@averythebright been playing it on and off (alternating with my violin) and I absolutely adore my chincello. Somehow having this low range available has made playing my violin less frustrating - I used to hate the E string! But now that I don't feel constrained to that higher range, it's lost that frustration. Tldr I love my chincello
@@averythebright forgot to mention - my viola is a 15 inch! I'm too short to play anything bigger, but I can confirm that octave strings do work on such a small instrument, and sound wonderful. I'll record and upload a demo video sometime
@@averythebright hi there! Took a bit but I recorded a quick demo here: th-cam.com/video/8B1pOcezvlg/w-d-xo.html And then I realised I'd left my mute on... I live in terraced housing so I normally practise with the mute on but it's not ideal for recording, particularly on my phone :'D So I did another quick and dirty recording without the mute and a slightly better range demo, here: th-cam.com/video/t95Jea5HxHM/w-d-xo.html If you're interested in what this viola sounded like originally: th-cam.com/users/shortsEfrsnZ93yJs?feature=share To clarify, this is a 15 inch viola, I was honestly surprised octave strings could work on such a small viola!! And not that it matters remotely, but this instrument is named Cesario, and my violin is Sebastien. Hope the instrument's beauty shows despite the subpar recording quality!
Very interresting!!! I studied first Viola at the Conservatoires Supérieur de Luxembourg, when I decided to switch to Major voice of becoming an Opera-Tenor sung 13 years on Stages in 🇪🇺🇩🇪, and at the "Horror-Time of Corona",I started again after 17 years of quitting playing, at Lockdown 2, bought a French Viola of Joseph Vautrin, Anno 1909,he lived 1875-1937,born in the" french Cremona City called Mirecourt " and was a pupil of Émil Germain à Paris, when he went to "Chaumont,Haute Marne",four hours away from Paris,where he was until his death a Luthier d'Art there. It is a wonderful impression of your Présenté!!! 🙏 Thank you so very much and all the best to you 🍀🍀🍀🎼🎶🎻 Kind regards from Europe 🇪🇺 , Black Forest 🇩🇪 to the 🇺🇸 to Nashville, Yours, Josha 🙋♂️ PS: excuse me, my English is not that good 😬🙏
Oh, man, when I heard the opening to the String Quartet arrangement of "God Only Knows" I was so excited. What a great sound. Thanks for this fun and informative video!
That makes sense, it's electric. It's extremely difficult (though not impossible) to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic also. (Sorry if I have guitar on the brain, I just lacquered a neck and hung it up to dry less than 15 minutes ago,) You'd have an easier time if you targeted an electric cello sound rather than an acoustic cello.
Fine tuners are great. The metal lever-style fine tuners, however, are heavy and they change the After Length, the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece, both of which can both adversely affect the resonance and overall sound of the instrument. Wittner-style tailpieces with built in fine tuners are one of several good options.
I need to update this video as Super Sensitive doesn't make their octave viola strings anymore. I recently purchased a handmade set from Don Rickert, a Luthier based in Georgia. They're handmade by a contact of his in France. Here's a link to Don's Website and page to order a set: www.rickertmusicalinstruments.com/2023/11/strings-for-tenor-and-octave-tuned-violas.html?fbclid=IwAR19xqg_DbL6NWhywpzu7WeVwwAxunManfenJYUiAlUED5LsrDl0G20voMo
I don't play strings yet. In love with the cello register. Lean towards a chin size for portability as I play to travel a lot. Might an octave violin or even viola be for me? Love the sound you got from this. Some even go for 5-string violins, but that may be horrible for a beginner?
Great sounding octave viola. The arrangement written specifically for the instrument featured in the video, is it a composition of your own making--great piece--almost magical.
I took a middle ground approach with a 15" viola and made it into an octave violin. I used the Sensicore G D and A strings from the octave viola set and a regular Sensicore viola D string that I cranked up to E. I think that the sound is deeper and richer using the small viola body for an octave violin. The other reason for making an octave violin is I also play a lot of music using an octave mandolin which has pretty much the same range as a guitar.
Beautiful but due to the size of the body or lack of it loses that Bass sound but in saying that the sonorous sound that we love of the viola is even more accentuated, wow, love it.
Correct - doesn't quite have the same depth/resonance of a cello, but it really does make for a nice deep viola sound and lots of fun to play. Thanks for watching!
Is a viola body big enough to support a fifth string in standard tuning (that is, F below the low C)? Would it be somewhat thin and unconvincing like putting a low C string on a violin, or would it blend well with the others? Five string violas are a thing, so no new instruments would be required, just a new way of setting them up. A lot of them tend to be on the smaller side for a viola though, to make the high E string easier to manage. I want to see a BIG viola (maybe a Rivinus Pellegrina) tuned F-C-G-D-A. (Yours is plenty big enough but only has 4 strings.) I think that would go a long way toward making a string quartet sound bigger without resorting to a "Trout quartet", because tenor lines would be less likely to run out of viola range. Note that I only _write_ for the instrument, not play it, so if there are other practical concerns, please say so. I do have a basic understanding how it is played and what the performance techniques are, but I have no ability to play any orchestral strings except bass (and that poorly -- but this is still why my bass parts tend to be the hardest when I write for chamber groups). As it is now, my preferred string quartet is violin, 5-string viola (C to E, not F to A), cello, and bass. However, since I do use an actual bass on the bottom, an octave viola could stand in for cello in my lineup more readily than in a standard quartet. The lack of depth would not be as significant. (I could also try a 5-string cello with a low F string rather than a bass and only lose one semitone of range, and that would look like and could sound pretty similar to a standard quartet when necessary.)
"Shoulder cellos" were actually quite popular in the 18th Century (i.e.: th-cam.com/video/_26qvQQcteE/w-d-xo.html ), so this concept has gone on for quite a while.
I was about to suggest this very video (well, actually this related one, of the full performance of the 6th cello suite: th-cam.com/video/wbH3JYfRjOQ/w-d-xo.html). I don't agree with some of the player's assertions (I do agree that the 6th Suite was written for an instrument with 5 strings, disagree that it's pointless to play on four, but agree that it's a technical challenge, for sure!), but I find his performance beautiful and compelling. If I can approach something like it someday on the (normal, sit-down) cello, I'll be happy indeed.
While I'm going on about it, here is a performance on a 5-string, Baroque cello: th-cam.com/video/LdfGd7y0IUA/w-d-xo.html. And here's a performance on a modern (endpin, metal strings, longer fingerboard) cello with four strings: th-cam.com/video/l6lUHv6fYWA/w-d-xo.html At any rate, Bach seemed to be pretty open-minded about his pieces being played on different instruments -- he transcribed some of his own cello suites and violin partitas for lute and his Art of the Fugue doesn't specify instrumentation (with the result that people have tried it with a lot of different and cool combinations of instruments).
Is a larger fretless instrument easier to learn to play as a total novice? My fingers are long and thing for a man. The precision of violin playing scares me. The slower nature of the octave strings might hide my limited skills a little bit in the parts that are suitable to it? And I love the deep sound. Is a large octave viola the way to go for a portable string instrument?
Great question - it's true these Sensicore strings are no longer made, as Super Sensitive was bought out by D'Addario. D'Addario has no plans to continue this line of specialty strings. I've been in touch with a French string maker who makes custom strings, and have a new set of Octave viola strings from them on order right now. I'll post an update when they arrive!
As a cellist that switched over to viola, I like this concept although I don't think my arms could take playing a 17.5 full time. (I tried a rental viola one summer that size at Interlochen and knew I needed to try a smaller viola) I personally play a 16.5 viola now but would be interested in trying the lower octave concept in an viola smaller than 17 inches. Thanks for posting and sharing your experience with this and keep the chin cello!
I'm currently considering stringing up my 15 inch viola with octave strings - it's never had new strings before. I'll let you know how it goes if you like.
@@averythebright Would you like to try my 19.25" viola then? Haha, for me- it then makes my 17.5" and my (now very small feeling 16") viola feel quite small. Then I pick up a violin and I have no idea where to begin.... it feels like a toy. It's the same feeling that any teacher would get when picking up their very young/small student's violin to play a little bit ( a 1/4 size, 1/8 or less!)
@@liamnevilleviolist1809 Hahaaaaaa 19.25"???? That is crazy huge! Is it difficult to play in tune? You must have long arms and fingers to be able to navigate it with any success!
@@averythebright Yes, yes I do haha. I'm not sure if it's visible in my videos on my channel, but I do actually have longer fingers and arms than the average person. Sometimes it's a blessing, but more often a curse. By this, I mean I have to see a doctor and specialists every 2 weeks at the least..... but for the most part I'm fine :) Very happy making music :) I liked this video on octave strings very much by the way. As I understand it - there are strings that are an octave below the violin, but also a set that is an octave below the cello... and *that* is what you're using here, right? :)
Do you think it’d still sound good if tuned down another half step to B F# C# G#? I know seems like a weird tuning but the reason for this question is I have an electric 5 string cello that I tune E B F# C# G# because I’m also a guitarist and it is really nice to have the low e available so it can cover the range of a typical bass guitar.
I think a six string instrument with a corpus length of 19-21 inches. Or the maximum length limited by string length and player size. Width and rib depth scaled proportionately to a viola. B♭, F, C, G, D, A. Use octave viola string for the B♭ and F tuned lower. Normal Viola strings for C - A. That way each string is a fifth from each other like a normal string instrument. I think a six string instrument with B♭, F, C, G, D, A. Use octave viola string for the B♭ and F tuned lower. Normal Viola strings for C - A. That way each string is a fifth from each other like a normal string instrument. Would have the range of both a cello and viola. If you're really crazy you can add an E string because it would be hard to play up the E string much with the extra wide fingerboard. I'm not sure the 7th string would be playable and the high E string might be too quiet.
I think it's sounds very much like a Cello de Spalla, though I've never played on before, so can't give you an educated opinion, would love to try one of those someday though.
I did indeed try a cello bow - and frankly, the viola bow always won out - could never quite get the control with a cello bow that I was accustomed to with a viola bow, especially in terms of response. Just used this octave viola on a recording session tonight, and the viola bow does quite well.
Hi Avery, great video. I like the way you explain the process. I've been looking for a budget one over 17 inches to experiment with but they are not so easy to get hold of. Any suggestions of where I might look online for one? Thanks. Ben
OK, I am a little late to the party. Hi Avery; fellow viola player here. Fascinating feature, your 'oversized' viola re-stringed and tuned as a cello. Mozart actually played one of those oversized viola's, in its normal range, playing string quartets with Haydn. They are usually known as tenor viola. But do you know that there are actual small cello's that were played by violinists and viola players, using the typical violin fingering. Check out the Violoncello da spalla. It is comparable with your instrument, slightly larger but also much thicker (deeper) giving it enough body for a real deep bass and rich singing tone. They are recreated because scholars started to realise that many virtuoso cello pieces in the baroque era were actually written for this instrument. Bach, who was a good viola player, seemingly wrote at least one of the violoncello suites for this instrument.
Amazing! yes, I've seen the Cello da Spalla, but never tried one out as they seem to be a bit hard to find. Thanks for the interesting history on these types of instruments - hope to try one of the cello da spallas someday!
Has anyone done this on a violin? Does it sound just as close to a cello? I was thinking of buying a cheap viola and converting it to a chin cello but I already have a violin that I could do this with if it sounds just as good.
Bro that sounds AMAZING! Please.. where can i get those sensicore strings? Thank you so much for this video. This is a life changing video, seriously. No cellist needed anymore:))))
Love this video. I do a lot of multi tracking so this would be really useful. I already have a violin and a 15 inch viola but might buy a third instrument. I'm pretty small (5'6'') and have small hands so am worried about playing a 17 inch. Do you reckon I could put the strings on my 15inch and it would still work? Also do you play with a special bow? Would a cello bow help as it would have more weight? Clearly these are hugely subjective questions but I'd value your opinion. Beautiful playing by the way
Hi Matthew - It's very useful for multi-tracking, though I still find myself hiring a cellist for most of my recording needs. I'm small too (5'6" on a good day as my wife says), and it is a bit of a struggle to reach everything - the spacing is quite large, but not un-approachable. I don't use a shoulder rest - just a sponge or a rag. The sensicores would definitely work on your 15", but I would imagine my 17.5" would be more naturally resonant than your 15" simply due to body size. I actually tried a cello bow, and found that I could get the same sound quality with a viola, and have been using it with plenty of success. Here's a recent track I used the octave viola on - you can hear it playing the role of the cello in my multi-tracked string quartet :-) open.spotify.com/track/3HjSAJY3gpvjxWrelVSvtn?si=1gwo6f8NT4GfjJ9Cjpt5cQ Thanks for the comment - where are you based, and do you do lots of string recording?
Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It's so helpful. I'm 5'6'' too! But I've got a good span so if you can cope with the bigger instrument I reckon I could too. I've got an ex-student who's got a 16.5 inch instrument that he wants to sell so that may work. And I reckon that I might need to drill out the holes on the pegs as you did on my 15 inch which I don't want to do. I'm actually a theatre composer and actor/musician. I do a real mixture of live performance and studio work and I also write original musicals www.missnightingale.co.uk. I'm based in Sheffield (Northern England) and London.
Excellent - I bet a 16.5 would totally work, and wouldn't feel inaccessible at all. I would guess you'd have to drill out the pegs on any viola, though it's not a big fix, and something you could do on your own... If you go through with it, keep me updated. Miss Nightingale looks great - keep up the good work man! If I'm ever across the pond, I'll come to a show!
Hey Avery! Great video! I just ordered a set of those strings! As to string lenght...what viola size would be max for them? Although manufacturer says 16.5'' you have put them in 17.5''! I was wondering how about 19''... Cheers and happy new year!!
@@averythebright Haha no! My viola is 16''. I'm just playing with my imagination. I have the possibility to buy a 19'' one and adjust it for these strings! I imagine that maybe with a bigger resonance box, these strings might vibrate better. What do you think?
@@marcoam90 Man - 19" would be so hard to play, but yes, I think it would sound amazing with those strings. Just a heads up, I've been going back and forth with Super sensitive for the past several months - their Sensicore strings keep snapping at the ball end on my octave viola. The company been great to work with and have continued to send me replacements, but frankly haven't done much to change the design. Find me on facebook and we can message there - I'm very interested to hear about your experience!
@@averythebright Well, believe it or not I have a 20" viola! It's actually a design by the late Carleen Hutchins, part of the matched violin set, and is more accurately called an Alto Violin (aka vertical viola). It plays in the viola range, although I'm tempted to try the octave strings. It has an endpin and is made to play vertically of course. I use a carbon fiber viola bow, or a 3/4 cello bow - sometimes a baroque bow. When playing vertically the shorter bow is preferred, and the heavier bow helps. More info on the Alto Violin/Vertical Viola can found here:th-cam.com/video/E551DqDhr1k/w-d-xo.html My biggest challenge is finding a teacher - viola tuning but cello fingering. I need a cellist who also plays the viola! I'm not good enough to teach myself. Can't find anyone who is interested....
@@jillgeary1313 Very cool Jill... what an interesting instrument that does indeed present some unique challenges. I bet it sounds beautiful I can imagine how difficult it would be to find anyone to teach it, I'm not aware of anyone who plays it.
Sounds fantastic, and lovely playing. What bow are you using? I have read that you need a cello bow, a black haired one, for more grip, as well as a very sticky rosin. Is that correct? Any advice welcome.
I'm using a viola bow actually - tried using a cello bow, and it just didn't really respond that well and was of course notably shorter. Not sure about the black bow hair myth, I have several colleagues that have used it, and I don't believe there was a noticeable difference from high quality traditional hair. Using Pirastro Goldflex rosin - works great!
no, the camera is flipped. he is a right-handed player. you can tell its flipped by the black poster with a big "LEGENDS" inbetween the door and the curtain in the background
Sounds wonderful. Looks a bit heavy. I'm playing Violin and wanting possibly a 5-String Violin in my near future. I've been into woodwinds most of my life, Sax, Flute, Trumpet, and was astounded how easy it was to learn Violin good enough to play tons of songs. Strings are awesome and Viola and Cello really have the sound to die for, but as you said, "It's like driving a cement truck." That was disappointing to hear, as I've heard Viola's are a bit unwieldy, didn't want to hear it again. You were referring to your Octave Chin Cello, so how do you feel about your Viola - would like a professional's opinion. Great video, ciao.
A flip filter would have been nice for this particularly popular video as well: th-cam.com/video/aSq1cez_flQ/w-d-xo.html If you want to campaign for one, a video with 19 million views just might influence them more than one with 1000 views. (We know they don't consider actual _quality_ when ranking things.)
@@averythebright why do most professional violinists only have a fine tuner for their e strings? I am a beginner violin player and I have only 1 fine tuner for my E octave string.
@@AmandaViolinGirl Great question - it has to do with the material the strings are made of. I think this article does a good job of explaining it: fiddlershop.com/blogs/fiddlershop-blog/fine-tuners-to-use-or-not-to-use
Quick update here - while the strings I'm using in this video (Sensicores, made by the now defunct D'Addario) are no longer available, you can now get a custom made set of octave viola strings from French luthier Eliakim Boussoir. I am using a set of his on my instrument now, and they sound lovely and are far more durable than the old Sensicore strings. If you're interested in getting a set, contact Eliakim via his website at: www.atelier-boussoir.fr/
Holy shit that sounds angelic. As a violist first and cellist as my second instrument, playing the cello suites on a octave string viola is now on my bucket list
Ha! It's a lot of fun to play - all the best Victor!
Same here !
Interessting! I tried something similar. Took my 16“-Inch viola and tuned the „normal“ viola strings a fourth deeper to G-D-A-E, so It’s an octave deeper than the Violine. It works! Now, i can play violin-pieces as e.g. Bach, with a nearly similar Sound as the Cello.
good job 💪😎 All the best!
This video inspired me to convert my viola. I finally got round to it and just got it back today, restringed and modified. It's great, thank you!
Wonderful! Let me know what you think!
@@averythebright been playing it on and off (alternating with my violin) and I absolutely adore my chincello. Somehow having this low range available has made playing my violin less frustrating - I used to hate the E string! But now that I don't feel constrained to that higher range, it's lost that frustration.
Tldr I love my chincello
@@averythebright forgot to mention - my viola is a 15 inch! I'm too short to play anything bigger, but I can confirm that octave strings do work on such a small instrument, and sound wonderful. I'll record and upload a demo video sometime
@@Sakkeru96 would love to hear it!
@@averythebright hi there! Took a bit but I recorded a quick demo here: th-cam.com/video/8B1pOcezvlg/w-d-xo.html
And then I realised I'd left my mute on... I live in terraced housing so I normally practise with the mute on but it's not ideal for recording, particularly on my phone :'D
So I did another quick and dirty recording without the mute and a slightly better range demo, here: th-cam.com/video/t95Jea5HxHM/w-d-xo.html
If you're interested in what this viola sounded like originally: th-cam.com/users/shortsEfrsnZ93yJs?feature=share
To clarify, this is a 15 inch viola, I was honestly surprised octave strings could work on such a small viola!!
And not that it matters remotely, but this instrument is named Cesario, and my violin is Sebastien.
Hope the instrument's beauty shows despite the subpar recording quality!
There's also a High E String for the 5 String Violas available as an Octave Viola High E.
Had to check out the shoulder Cello after hearing it on Radio yesterday, Thanks for enlightening and the recordings sound wonderful
Thank you!
I liked it. Thanks for posting!
Very interresting!!!
I studied first Viola at the Conservatoires Supérieur de Luxembourg, when I decided to switch to Major voice of becoming an Opera-Tenor sung 13 years on Stages in 🇪🇺🇩🇪, and at the "Horror-Time of Corona",I started again after 17 years of quitting playing, at Lockdown 2, bought a French Viola of Joseph Vautrin, Anno 1909,he lived 1875-1937,born in the" french Cremona City called Mirecourt " and was a pupil of Émil Germain à Paris, when he went to "Chaumont,Haute Marne",four hours away from Paris,where he was until his death a Luthier d'Art there.
It is a wonderful impression of your Présenté!!! 🙏
Thank you so very much and all the best to you 🍀🍀🍀🎼🎶🎻
Kind regards from Europe 🇪🇺 , Black Forest 🇩🇪 to the 🇺🇸 to Nashville,
Yours,
Josha 🙋♂️
PS: excuse me, my English is not that good 😬🙏
Very good. Very vauable! Thank you so much. Best & cheers, Sean
my little Avery! i could listen to you play all day long - you've always been amazing! love ya!
Aw.. it's like a cello in its younger days. :') O wish your twin chin cello song is in your spotify!
Nice and informative. Thank you.
Brilliant!!
Love that sound,...and so much easier than hauling around a cello.
It sure is!
Glad I found your channel. Would love to see you play more of your instruments.
It sounds like a cello, but i can tell it goes on your shoulder, not in between the legs.
Btw, Im a Viola
Oh, man, when I heard the opening to the String Quartet arrangement of "God Only Knows" I was so excited. What a great sound. Thanks for this fun and informative video!
Thanks for stopping in Susan, all the best!
That is amazing!
I'm gonna have to try that!
A=415? Or probably a bit slightly higher?
Gavin Liuranium I noticed that too. It messed me up
Gavin Liuranium
Very likely that frequency; there’s A=465 but both are baroque for strings and organ, respectively.
Cool! I put octave strings on an electric 5-string violin, but it sounds different than an octave viola. Pretty cool!
Wow - how did it sound?
That makes sense, it's electric. It's extremely difficult (though not impossible) to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic also. (Sorry if I have guitar on the brain, I just lacquered a neck and hung it up to dry less than 15 minutes ago,)
You'd have an easier time if you targeted an electric cello sound rather than an acoustic cello.
Wonderful idea!! ... and great recordings... really nice!!!!🙋♂️
Thanks Matthias!
Avery Bright ... thank you... already bought my Helicore Octave for violin ... 🎻😃🙋♂️
That was amazing. Thanks for sharing!
Fine tuners are great. The metal lever-style fine tuners, however, are heavy and they change the After Length, the distance between the bridge and the tailpiece, both of which can both adversely affect the resonance and overall sound of the instrument.
Wittner-style tailpieces with built in fine tuners are one of several good options.
Sounds beautiful!!!
wow sounds so cool
Greetings.
I am unable to purchase an octave viola set of strings.
Any suggestions????
Please advice.
I need to update this video as Super Sensitive doesn't make their octave viola strings anymore. I recently purchased a handmade set from Don Rickert, a Luthier based in Georgia. They're handmade by a contact of his in France. Here's a link to Don's Website and page to order a set:
www.rickertmusicalinstruments.com/2023/11/strings-for-tenor-and-octave-tuned-violas.html?fbclid=IwAR19xqg_DbL6NWhywpzu7WeVwwAxunManfenJYUiAlUED5LsrDl0G20voMo
Geared Tuners would help along w/ a CodaBow Joule for Viola & Dark Kaplan Premium rosin.
I don't play strings yet. In love with the cello register. Lean towards a chin size for portability as I play to travel a lot. Might an octave violin or even viola be for me?
Love the sound you got from this.
Some even go for 5-string violins, but that may be horrible for a beginner?
You should go to a violin shop and try a few out to see what you like!
Great sounding octave viola. The arrangement written specifically for the instrument featured in the video, is it a composition of your own making--great piece--almost magical.
Glad you like it - just a quick theme I wrote for the purposes on the video!
That’s an awesome instrument.
I learn something new every day.
It's Contraviola = Chin-Cello
Contra = Octave Below the Prime
- Robert McLoughlin
I took a middle ground approach with a 15" viola and made it into an octave violin. I used the Sensicore G D and A strings from the octave viola set and a regular Sensicore viola D string that I cranked up to E. I think that the sound is deeper and richer using the small viola body for an octave violin. The other reason for making an octave violin is I also play a lot of music using an octave mandolin which has pretty much the same range as a guitar.
That sounds really cool Fred - would love to hear it!
I play viola and violin for 10 years now but I never saw something like this im my life! Amaizing you heve earned a new sub to your chanel! 😍😍
Thanks Megi!
Love the "God Only Knows" arrangement. Just shows how good the Beach Boys were as musicians.
Great string review!!! Have you tried to use a cello bow on your octave viola? You vill hear a big difference, specially on your C and G string!
😁👍
Beautiful but due to the size of the body or lack of it loses that Bass sound but in saying that the sonorous sound that we love of the viola is even more accentuated, wow, love it.
Correct - doesn't quite have the same depth/resonance of a cello, but it really does make for a nice deep viola sound and lots of fun to play. Thanks for watching!
Is a viola body big enough to support a fifth string in standard tuning (that is, F below the low C)? Would it be somewhat thin and unconvincing like putting a low C string on a violin, or would it blend well with the others?
Five string violas are a thing, so no new instruments would be required, just a new way of setting them up. A lot of them tend to be on the smaller side for a viola though, to make the high E string easier to manage. I want to see a BIG viola (maybe a Rivinus Pellegrina) tuned F-C-G-D-A. (Yours is plenty big enough but only has 4 strings.) I think that would go a long way toward making a string quartet sound bigger without resorting to a "Trout quartet", because tenor lines would be less likely to run out of viola range.
Note that I only _write_ for the instrument, not play it, so if there are other practical concerns, please say so. I do have a basic understanding how it is played and what the performance techniques are, but I have no ability to play any orchestral strings except bass (and that poorly -- but this is still why my bass parts tend to be the hardest when I write for chamber groups).
As it is now, my preferred string quartet is violin, 5-string viola (C to E, not F to A), cello, and bass. However, since I do use an actual bass on the bottom, an octave viola could stand in for cello in my lineup more readily than in a standard quartet. The lack of depth would not be as significant. (I could also try a 5-string cello with a low F string rather than a bass and only lose one semitone of range, and that would look like and could sound pretty similar to a standard quartet when necessary.)
Amazing! Why did you mirror the webcam video though?
Used the cam on my computer - I'm not a video guy, just here for the music!
I thought you were left handed, untill well into the video.
Wow! A left-handed violist! Epic
I want one!!!!’
"Shoulder cellos" were actually quite popular in the 18th Century (i.e.: th-cam.com/video/_26qvQQcteE/w-d-xo.html ), so this concept has gone on for quite a while.
I was about to suggest this very video (well, actually this related one, of the full performance of the 6th cello suite: th-cam.com/video/wbH3JYfRjOQ/w-d-xo.html). I don't agree with some of the player's assertions (I do agree that the 6th Suite was written for an instrument with 5 strings, disagree that it's pointless to play on four, but agree that it's a technical challenge, for sure!), but I find his performance beautiful and compelling. If I can approach something like it someday on the (normal, sit-down) cello, I'll be happy indeed.
While I'm going on about it, here is a performance on a 5-string, Baroque cello: th-cam.com/video/LdfGd7y0IUA/w-d-xo.html.
And here's a performance on a modern (endpin, metal strings, longer fingerboard) cello with four strings: th-cam.com/video/l6lUHv6fYWA/w-d-xo.html
At any rate, Bach seemed to be pretty open-minded about his pieces being played on different instruments -- he transcribed some of his own cello suites and violin partitas for lute and his Art of the Fugue doesn't specify instrumentation (with the result that people have tried it with a lot of different and cool combinations of instruments).
Is a larger fretless instrument easier to learn to play as a total novice?
My fingers are long and thing for a man. The precision of violin playing scares me.
The slower nature of the octave strings might hide my limited skills a little bit in the parts that are suitable to it? And I love the deep sound.
Is a large octave viola the way to go for a portable string instrument?
You should try a viola!
Where can you get these strings? I heard that they are no longer made : (
Great question - it's true these Sensicore strings are no longer made, as Super Sensitive was bought out by D'Addario. D'Addario has no plans to continue this line of specialty strings. I've been in touch with a French string maker who makes custom strings, and have a new set of Octave viola strings from them on order right now. I'll post an update when they arrive!
As a cellist that switched over to viola, I like this concept although I don't think my arms could take playing a 17.5 full time. (I tried a rental viola one summer that size at Interlochen and knew I needed to try a smaller viola) I personally play a 16.5 viola now but would be interested in trying the lower octave concept in an viola smaller than 17 inches. Thanks for posting and sharing your experience with this and keep the chin cello!
Yep, that's the biggest challenge honestly is just playing it - it's uncomfortably huge.
I'm currently considering stringing up my 15 inch viola with octave strings - it's never had new strings before. I'll let you know how it goes if you like.
@@averythebright Would you like to try my 19.25" viola then? Haha, for me- it then makes my 17.5" and my (now very small feeling 16") viola feel quite small.
Then I pick up a violin and I have no idea where to begin.... it feels like a toy. It's the same feeling that any teacher would get when picking up their very young/small student's violin to play a little bit ( a 1/4 size, 1/8 or less!)
@@liamnevilleviolist1809 Hahaaaaaa 19.25"???? That is crazy huge! Is it difficult to play in tune? You must have long arms and fingers to be able to navigate it with any success!
@@averythebright Yes, yes I do haha. I'm not sure if it's visible in my videos on my channel, but I do actually have longer fingers and arms than the average person.
Sometimes it's a blessing, but more often a curse. By this, I mean I have to see a doctor and specialists every 2 weeks at the least..... but for the most part I'm fine :) Very happy making music :)
I liked this video on octave strings very much by the way. As I understand it - there are strings that are an octave below the violin, but also a set that is an octave below the cello... and *that* is what you're using here, right? :)
Wow love the song!! I thought it was from a movie or something, it's so good!!
Thanks so much Violet!
Do you think it’d still sound good if tuned down another half step to B F# C# G#? I know seems like a weird tuning but the reason for this question is I have an electric 5 string cello that I tune E B F# C# G# because I’m also a guitarist and it is really nice to have the low e available so it can cover the range of a typical bass guitar.
Yep, I have mine tuned down a whole step right now actually - sounds great!
I think a six string instrument with a corpus length of 19-21 inches. Or the maximum length limited by string length and player size. Width and rib depth scaled proportionately to a viola. B♭, F, C, G, D, A. Use octave viola string for the B♭ and F tuned lower. Normal Viola strings for C - A. That way each string is a fifth from each other like a normal string instrument. I think a six string instrument with B♭, F, C, G, D, A. Use octave viola string for the B♭ and F tuned lower. Normal Viola strings for C - A. That way each string is a fifth from each other like a normal string instrument. Would have the range of both a cello and viola. If you're really crazy you can add an E string because it would be hard to play up the E string much with the extra wide fingerboard. I'm not sure the 7th string would be playable and the high E string might be too quiet.
This sounds better to me than the cello de spalla which I watched on TH-cam. Have you heard those and what do you think of them?
I think it's sounds very much like a Cello de Spalla, though I've never played on before, so can't give you an educated opinion, would love to try one of those someday though.
God that sounds good.
Some octave cello strings would be great am i right
Lol that would be djent 100.
PS the song at 430 is so pretty!! The adagio part!! I commented before watching more of it!!
I'm impressed! Have you tried playing with, perhaps a 3/4 cello bow?
I did indeed try a cello bow - and frankly, the viola bow always won out - could never quite get the control with a cello bow that I was accustomed to with a viola bow, especially in terms of response. Just used this octave viola on a recording session tonight, and the viola bow does quite well.
Hi Avery, great video. I like the way you explain the process. I've been looking for a budget one over 17 inches to experiment with but they are not so easy to get hold of. Any suggestions of where I might look online for one? Thanks. Ben
Wow
He's playing on all left-hand instruments? lol (ik video is mirrored)
OK, I am a little late to the party. Hi Avery; fellow viola player here. Fascinating feature, your 'oversized' viola re-stringed and tuned as a cello. Mozart actually played one of those oversized viola's, in its normal range, playing string quartets with Haydn. They are usually known as tenor viola. But do you know that there are actual small cello's that were played by violinists and viola players, using the typical violin fingering. Check out the Violoncello da spalla. It is comparable with your instrument, slightly larger but also much thicker (deeper) giving it enough body for a real deep bass and rich singing tone. They are recreated because scholars started to realise that many virtuoso cello pieces in the baroque era were actually written for this instrument. Bach, who was a good viola player, seemingly wrote at least one of the violoncello suites for this instrument.
Amazing! yes, I've seen the Cello da Spalla, but never tried one out as they seem to be a bit hard to find. Thanks for the interesting history on these types of instruments - hope to try one of the cello da spallas someday!
So beautiful. Maybe you are interested in these instruments: Violoncello da Spalla or Viola Pomposa.
Would love to try these out!
Has anyone done this on a violin? Does it sound just as close to a cello? I was thinking of buying a cheap viola and converting it to a chin cello but I already have a violin that I could do this with if it sounds just as good.
Bro that sounds AMAZING! Please.. where can i get those sensicore strings? Thank you so much for this video. This is a life changing video, seriously. No cellist needed anymore:))))
So what’s the difference between this and a Cello da Spalla?
Is it a Gliga viola?, if so, what “level” is it (i suspect is a gama)?
It is a Gliga! But not a special edition of any sorts - just a very large I ran across at a local shop here in Nashville.
Love this video. I do a lot of multi tracking so this would be really useful. I already have a violin and a 15 inch viola but might buy a third instrument. I'm pretty small (5'6'') and have small hands so am worried about playing a 17 inch. Do you reckon I could put the strings on my 15inch and it would still work? Also do you play with a special bow? Would a cello bow help as it would have more weight? Clearly these are hugely subjective questions but I'd value your opinion. Beautiful playing by the way
Hi Matthew - It's very useful for multi-tracking, though I still find myself hiring a cellist for most of my recording needs. I'm small too (5'6" on a good day as my wife says), and it is a bit of a struggle to reach everything - the spacing is quite large, but not un-approachable. I don't use a shoulder rest - just a sponge or a rag. The sensicores would definitely work on your 15", but I would imagine my 17.5" would be more naturally resonant than your 15" simply due to body size. I actually tried a cello bow, and found that I could get the same sound quality with a viola, and have been using it with plenty of success. Here's a recent track I used the octave viola on - you can hear it playing the role of the cello in my multi-tracked string quartet :-)
open.spotify.com/track/3HjSAJY3gpvjxWrelVSvtn?si=1gwo6f8NT4GfjJ9Cjpt5cQ
Thanks for the comment - where are you based, and do you do lots of string recording?
Thanks so much for your detailed reply. It's so helpful. I'm 5'6'' too! But I've got a good span so if you can cope with the bigger instrument I reckon I could too. I've got an ex-student who's got a 16.5 inch instrument that he wants to sell so that may work. And I reckon that I might need to drill out the holes on the pegs as you did on my 15 inch which I don't want to do. I'm actually a theatre composer and actor/musician. I do a real mixture of live performance and studio work and I also write original musicals www.missnightingale.co.uk. I'm based in Sheffield (Northern England) and London.
"Gravity" is a beautiful track too
Excellent - I bet a 16.5 would totally work, and wouldn't feel inaccessible at all. I would guess you'd have to drill out the pegs on any viola, though it's not a big fix, and something you could do on your own... If you go through with it, keep me updated. Miss Nightingale looks great - keep up the good work man! If I'm ever across the pond, I'll come to a show!
Hey Avery! Great video! I just ordered a set of those strings! As to string lenght...what viola size would be max for them? Although manufacturer says 16.5'' you have put them in 17.5''! I was wondering how about 19''... Cheers and happy new year!!
Hi Marco! Awesome! Man, I'm not sure... They fit great on my 17.5 - what do you have that's 19"??? That's GIANT!
@@averythebright Haha no! My viola is 16''. I'm just playing with my imagination. I have the possibility to buy a 19'' one and adjust it for these strings! I imagine that maybe with a bigger resonance box, these strings might vibrate better. What do you think?
@@marcoam90 Man - 19" would be so hard to play, but yes, I think it would sound amazing with those strings. Just a heads up, I've been going back and forth with Super sensitive for the past several months - their Sensicore strings keep snapping at the ball end on my octave viola. The company been great to work with and have continued to send me replacements, but frankly haven't done much to change the design. Find me on facebook and we can message there - I'm very interested to hear about your experience!
@@averythebright Well, believe it or not I have a 20" viola! It's actually a design by the late Carleen Hutchins, part of the matched violin set, and is more accurately called an Alto Violin (aka vertical viola). It plays in the viola range, although I'm tempted to try the octave strings. It has an endpin and is made to play vertically of course. I use a carbon fiber viola bow, or a 3/4 cello bow - sometimes a baroque bow. When playing vertically the shorter bow is preferred, and the heavier bow helps. More info on the Alto Violin/Vertical Viola can found here:th-cam.com/video/E551DqDhr1k/w-d-xo.html
My biggest challenge is finding a teacher - viola tuning but cello fingering. I need a cellist who also plays the viola! I'm not good enough to teach myself. Can't find anyone who is interested....
@@jillgeary1313 Very cool Jill... what an interesting instrument that does indeed present some unique challenges. I bet it sounds beautiful I can imagine how difficult it would be to find anyone to teach it, I'm not aware of anyone who plays it.
Sounds fantastic, and lovely playing. What bow are you using? I have read that you need a cello bow, a black haired one, for more grip, as well as a very sticky rosin. Is that correct? Any advice welcome.
I'm using a viola bow actually - tried using a cello bow, and it just didn't really respond that well and was of course notably shorter. Not sure about the black bow hair myth, I have several colleagues that have used it, and I don't believe there was a noticeable difference from high quality traditional hair. Using Pirastro Goldflex rosin - works great!
The vid is mirror image.
Can it djent?
The problem with the octave C string it hits on the fingerboard because of that extremely low frequency and that’s a shame.
Are you left-handed player?
no, the camera is flipped. he is a right-handed player. you can tell its flipped by the black poster with a big "LEGENDS" inbetween the door and the curtain in the background
Nope - the video just shows a mirror image of what I'm doing!
there is no such thing as a left handed instrument. If your left handed, you just finger with your dominant hand.
Right, but why have you made the video that way?
Kimon Vontas | I’ve played my violin left handed before...well i tried
Sounds wonderful. Looks a bit heavy. I'm playing Violin and wanting possibly a 5-String Violin in my near future. I've been into woodwinds most of my life, Sax, Flute, Trumpet, and was astounded how easy it was to learn Violin good enough to play tons of songs. Strings are awesome and Viola and Cello really have the sound to die for, but as you said, "It's like driving a cement truck." That was disappointing to hear, as I've heard Viola's are a bit unwieldy, didn't want to hear it again. You were referring to your Octave Chin Cello, so how do you feel about your Viola - would like a professional's opinion. Great video, ciao.
Would highly recommend playing viola - it's a beautiful instrument, and not nearly as unwieldy as the chin cello. All the best!
Do you use a different bow? A heavier viola bow or an actual cello bow?
I use a viola bow - tried a cello bow, and it honestly wasn't that different than using a heavy viola bow.
Is it just me or are you hands switched 😂 but I realized it's a mirrored video
😍😍
Undergrad life was 17.5 viola
I'm surprised it sounds as resonant as it does with such a small body!
Definitely not as resonant as a real cello, but gorgeous in its own way
so you aren't left-handed? this is a mirrored video?
Correct - it's mirrored - sorry for the visual dissonance!
TH-cam needs a "flip left to right" correction for fixing mirrored videos like this one.
Indeed!
A flip filter would have been nice for this particularly popular video as well:
th-cam.com/video/aSq1cez_flQ/w-d-xo.html
If you want to campaign for one, a video with 19 million views just might influence them more than one with 1000 views. (We know they don't consider actual _quality_ when ranking things.)
I notice that is seems to lack the depth of a cello, but that is to be expected due to its small body.
Precisely
Great video. Is it a Gliga viola?
Yes! So big it has to go in a small cello case.
That is so cool. I am thinking of doing the same setup.
Please record it for us if you do! It would be interesting to see how different two similar instruments sound when used this way.
As an injured violist who can no longer play....ouch.
similar to the violon spalla?
Yes - not as deep of a body though... would love to play a cello de spalla sometime... though they're a bit hard to find.
If Paganini saw this now he’d prob say challenge excepted
😂😂
well lets put a chin rest on a 1/2 cello and see how that works out. maybe put some bass strings on it.
waiting for the video now.....
HAHA Will start stretching my neck out....
It's a viola Gliga gems 1 ?!😂
#172_comment_July15_2024_SameProblem_StringsNotMadeByAny_LargeScaleManufacturers🇺🇸
Interesting instrument, but the mirrored video really ruins the watching experience for me.
Sorry David!
mid range sounds cool. but not on the G and C....In the end....just learn cello your already halfway there
No cello should need fine tuners especially if you are a professional.
1. This is not a cello. 2. Are you a professional? Because only professionals are allowed to say this.
@@averythebright why do most professional violinists only have a fine tuner for their e strings? I am a beginner violin player and I have only 1 fine tuner for my E octave string.
@@AmandaViolinGirl Great question - it has to do with the material the strings are made of. I think this article does a good job of explaining it: fiddlershop.com/blogs/fiddlershop-blog/fine-tuners-to-use-or-not-to-use
Still doesn't have the range of a cello...
ye this proves a normal viola is useless