This has to be the lost media I'm most hyped for, I remember as kid spending half a day watching those "Possible way to the beta forest" videos and trying the bomb+sword swing glitch to reach to it. I was quite hopeful about i'ts existence and spent hours exploring behind the master sword zone, and just kept falling out of bounds. I hope some day some developer version of this game can see the light so I can at last see the forest with my own eyes.
The way I lit up seeing this in my sub box. It feels like it's been so long since anyone's talked about this; we datamined the game, didn't find it, and moved on. I really haven't heard any of these connecting statements and theories before and I've watched hundreds if not thousands of Zelda videos. You're the real deal, dude.
My soul hurts knowing a 3rd OoT Era Link game was once in the works. I've always felt like his story was incomplete. I wanna know if he found Navi. TP as it is now makes even more questions too. How'd Link lose his eye? What's his armor from and when did he become so very adept at swordsmanship that he knows stuff no one else does?
It's very much unofficial, but have you ever heard of MajorLink's Hero's Purpose animated series? It might help with these desires of yours, even if only slightly. The animation is a bit rough in the first couple episodes, but it gets better as it goes on, and the story is pretty good.
I remember when they showed that trailer, me and my friends thought the new Zelda is going to be openworld. In the trailer, you saw how Link is riding through many big areas seemlessly into battle, and then there is the whole open woods areas. Basically, we thought that new Zelda game (later known as TP), is going to be what BotW is today.
TBH though, if this was going to be the first "open world" 3D Zelda, I kinda think the GameCube wasn't really ready to render that sort of thing if it would be as flat as the trailer.
@quillion3rdoption Explain that to 14 year old me. I kinda knew that open world games look bad, looking at GTA Games on PS2. But with the more powerful hardware on the GCN, & the whole world not as big as Something like a GTA, & some Nintendo magic, we thought it might be possible.
@@quillion3rdoption there is a decent bit of open world games on the gamecube and pretty decent looking games at that, the gamecube was more than powerful enough for that especially with optimization actually being a priority in gaming at the time unlike today
Wow I finally get to hear about this over 20 years later! The first couple trailers were extremely hype inducing. I watched them over and over and over when I was little.
10:35 I might have to disagree about the trees here around the Temple of Time ruins. These trees were most likely just placed to merely give the appearance of the forest continuing out and are there to break up your view of what is just a big perimeter wall with a flat texture around the back. It is a typical set design trick. Also, the part of the original trailer with the "Doshin" the giant looking guy- it appears in the trailer twice. The part where Link dives under water in the woods (see here: 1:43 ) is the _same exact area_ as the spot he is walking in by the giant (see here: 1:58 ). This was something I noticed wayyyyyyyy back then when I watched this trailer on repeat. The shape of the geometry of the pond, most notably that big tree root with the vines on it visible in both scenes, and the textures all point to this being the same exact spot. Maybe it floods or drains at some point. Man, I miss the feeling of anticipation this game gave me back then before it was out. I just don't get that anymore with upcoming games.
What I meant more is that the area may have been lifted from the original forest and made into its own area while reutilizing some of the varied trees of back then as a backdrop more. Not that it literally was the beta woods
It's hard to deny the possibility these were made just for the trailer sadly, but I like to think they were at least testing what they can do with open fields at the time. "Can we make more places like Hyrule field?" might have been a thought process they went through.
I don't think it was just for the trailer since the "Forest Field" location existed with variations of a Twilight version too as well as other "rooms". The actual trailer versions were the ones that said "Wood" on them as I understand.
It was always funny how similar it was to Ocarina of Time’s beta Forest. That was discovered to be part of the early Hyrule Field map in the Gigaleak. All that we have for it is the collision for it, empty and barren. There’s also some photos closer to the walls from Spaceworld, showing what the textures would’ve looked like
That quote from Shigeru Miyamoto ironically is what let me down so much about playing this game. Enhancing Ocarina of Time is a logical move, but where they went wrong in my opinion is the overworld. It somehow feels less imaginative and explorable. The music is great, the bosses, dungeon design (minus the items that are useless after you beat the dungeon) characters, all great.
Teenager me was incredibly, incredibly excited for Twilight Princess (I'll still always remember the 2005 trailer--that music really stirred me!). As time went on I have valued Wind Waker more, and don't think of Twilight Princess much, nor have I played it since. It's a fun game with lots going for it, but I feel that its creation as essentially a reactionary product (maybe I'm wrong about that though) somewhat limited its potential along the way.
@@flyforce16 I am with ya. I loved the 2d games, grew up on the 64, and GameCube. I never had a Wii and so only played it after TOTK when I bought a Wii to play WW and TP. I think if I would’ve played it as a kid I might feel different. But it does feel very reactionary.
@flyforce16 Idk I remember having the money to buy twilight princess for 2 or 3 years from like 6 to 9 years old, and to this day, it's my favorite Zelda. Wind waker was so boring I couldn't force myself to finish it the like 5 different times I've tried. Also if you 100% these games twilight princess has so much to do and collect throughout the overworld in the little space there is compared to later titles, it was insane. Just not as flashy as sailing a super vibrant/saturated sea in an equally vibrant/saturated boat lol
Yep. The overworld was huge, yet very much empty. Same with many, many areas. They are long, chorizo like corridors. Most of the game is a long corridor, with an oval and a loading screen on both ends. Disappointing, Oot had to put tricks all over but it understandable given the time and hardware. But I didn’t understand why, despite the game looking relatively low poly was everything still closed off.
@@hodgindaylon100 percenting TP sucks, gotta find poes at night but can't change the time of day? Collectibles that just don't matter, etc. TP is the worst 3d Zelda followed closely by Skyward Sword Edit: before TP fanboys get upset over my opinion, the worst 3d Zelda is still better than most other games. TP isn't a bad game, not by any means...Just a very weak, boring, bland and played it too safe, Zelda game
6:53 - rancher/wrangler is more accurate of what he intended to mean, I remember in the original interview he chose the word "cowboy" as there wasn't a word for rancher/wrangler in Japanese to go with
4:34 "Back then we considered making it the sequel of Ocarina of Time, some years later..... but then we thought of the first-time players, who wouldn't understand a thing if you started as a wolf, so we changed it and had human Link from the start." - EIJI AONUMA He says this as if starting as a wolf would somehow make sense to those that had played Ocarina of Time... I don't really understand how. I have seen a few quotes like this, about the development of Zelda games, that are apparently intended to explain something yet seem nonsensical as an explanation; I don't know if it is translation errors or what, it confuses me.
On the other bit, I did kind of pick up on that the last time I played TP. That in hindsight, at the start of the game at least it was entirely possible for you to be playing as the same Link aged up into an adult. Nonetheless, if that's what they meant there, then the decision must have been changed VERY early in development.
I think it makes a lot of sense story-wise for why the Kokiri Village isn't there anymore. Since the game takes place in the timeline where the Deku Tree has died but a new one hasn't grown (since Link had no need to visit the Forest Temple), it's not unreasonable to assume the Kokiri simply died out. Some Hylians then managed to stumble upon their village decades later and decided to turn it into their own. Also, there's a sort-of pond in the Sacred Grove like the one seen at 1:45. It's not very big, but it's what that clip immediately reminded me of. The other parts seen in the trailer (like the animals and various monsters, etc) were probably just put there to show off that the game has them. Like look, Link can carry cats now, how adorable! And he can swing his sword while riding, how exciting! Wouldn't even be surprised if they put the boat in Ordon Village for the same reason, as the river REALLY isn't big enough to comfortably row through anyway. You can't forget, trailers and teasers are just meant to look good, they're not meant to represent the game faithfully.
My guess for the lake in Lost Woods would be that it could've been intended to lead to Lake Hylia, since so much of TP is meant to echo parts of OoT. If so, I'd also say it makes decent sense to cut it, since OoT-like shortcuts wouldn't serve much purpose in a game with fast travel.
Only thing ever leaked from tp is a debug executable that nvidia forgot to remove from the nvidia shield version. It has lots of cool debug features to mess around with.
Knowing that TP was originally planned as a sequel to OOT’s Child storyline, I wonder if the delay to 2006 wasn’t just to make it a launch title for the Wii. Maybe it was because they had to rework 3D models and the story that was already written? I also never owned the GameCube version sadly, I remember that it was released after the Wii version, in December. It makes me curious if the Soft lock Nintendo had to patch out of the Wii version was fixed before the GameCube version shipped?
This is how I know games such as this are timeless. Here we are 20 years later trying to find more information on the beta woods. It does take me back to 2001 when we were trying to find elements to OoT that we would learn much later. I will say I hope to one day see more of the E3 2014 BoTW beta.
Zelda games seem to always go through massive changes in development, with the exception of Skyward Sword, with early builds looking like entirely different games from their released versions, Ocarina of Time being most dramatic example. It'd be incredible if a 2004 or 2005 build of Twilight Princess is found/leaked. Its one of my favorite games and I'd love to see these early maps in full detail someday, rather than just press screenshots and dreadfully compressed mid 2000's video recordings.
Skyward Sword actually did go through massive changes too. They just never modeled them; they have concept art for a bigger Skyloft, and even Aonuma admitted in a BotW BTS video that he wanted a more connected field in SS too. It likely just had rushed world design (because they spent so much time on MotionPlus, source Iwata Asks)so it didn't change much from the initial trailers.
@@GameOverJesse Indeed is the case and opens up so much possibilities now. Also just gotta say bro that your own video on this topic was a big influence on me making my take on it too :)
I loooooove your theory!! The fishing hole is so cool and I wish it was part of the main game... But I'm glad they preserved it... I want to study how it may have connected...
Something I'd like to point out is that the people of Ordon Village are not Hylians. Hylians have elvish pointed ears while Ordonians have normal human looking ears. While they appear to have good relations with the Hylians, they are a separate group and race of people and might even be direct descendants of the Kokiri, though that is unconfirmed as far as I'm aware and is mostly speculated on because of the abundance of Kokiri logos around the area.
Realistically it's much more likely that it was an area made very early in development to test and implement mechanics, interactions and enemies in a representation of what a normal environment of the final game would look like. That's why it's so flexible and open. That's the reason why the area was in so much of the super early promotional material too, it was one of the few things that they had at that point that was in a state that looked like the what the final game was supposed to look like.
I distinctly remember watching this trailer live and literally being knocked off my feet and falling backward onto the ground out of sheer amazement. Yeah, we've all wondered what happened to the forest but that's small potatoes here. Where the heck are my beta Dinolfos?!
what intrigued me most is Twilight Princess was considered as the direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and Majora's mask, setting in the future where OoT Link become a proper adult. i guess Eiji Aonuma changed this to make TP story as a standalone mythos while having OoT as reference.
It's so sad, that was one of the locations I was most looking forward to visit before release, it was very disappointing that the Lost Woods experience in TP was a bit too "curated", you know? After WW I was really itching for more free exploration (Like the islands) but both TP and SS failed to deliver in that regard IMO, and I think exploration and discovery are the heart of the franchise. I am glad that we finally kinda got woods that look like that in BotW, but I am still a bit sad that it relies on a gimmick rather than you actually getting lost.
Sacred Grove is the lost woods of twilight princess you can hear saria song being played in the background as you move through it belive me they did not miss on this game oms
I remember all the rumors of the beta forest and the monsters that were never put in the game and the "sasquatch" lol. Its truly nostalgic and a cool but of the young internet age (lot of rumors, little answers!)
I was only 2 when twilight princess released and although it’s my favourite and first Zelda game(indoctrinating me into Zelda at age 4) I had zero clue about this lost area we never got. Probably would’ve scared me too much to continue playing but still sad about never getting this entire part of the game
I personally feel that most of the final plot probably was going to be the OOT3 plot anyways. I can imagine characters like Ilia being a replacement for Malon for example with Link probably working for them as a wrangler, the kids in Ordon Village being just the Kokiri's, and Ganondorf still being banished to the Twilight Realm after being captured only to return a few years later (as opposed to a few hundred). Someone probably could mod that all together rather easily I imagine if they wanted to.
@TheObsessiveGamer Something tells me Ilia was an original character made specifically for the game with her prominent design. Especially since Malon would still be in Lon Lon Ranch and not in Kokiri Village. Still can you imagine, had the game remained OoT3, how cool it would have been to visit all the characters like Saria, Ruto, Darunia etc in a timeline where they never became sages? Without any memory of the AT events and on next-gen GameCube hardware it would have been far more impactful than what we ended up getting. Also wondering why OoT Link would become a wolf...
13:19 Pssst It was just a demonstration showcase the game, they created an environment to do such. The game was super early in development so they made literally this "zone" which gave the illusion that this was more then it actually was or again, it was not ment to be the scope of the actual area vs, something to show
I think you can see hints of breath of the wild in these early stages of twilight princess, and i do remember aonuma saying something like that during the release of twilight princess hd before botw.
I hope we will one day get a zelda game based on the lost woods. I believe the lost woods is the piece that connects all the zelda games. Think about it every zelda game has some version of the lost woods. Child link after Ocarina of time traveled to Termina and after termina he got into the world of Twilight Princess... They must all be linked to the lost woods.
Twilight Princess was such a beautiful game and its a shame people look down on its art style in an attempt to elevate botw/totk's art style. I really do hope we visit a hyrule similar to this as twilight princess carried an air of mysterious and sometimes eery beauty that the other games never had.
They are referring to Twilight Princess originally being a more direct sequel to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, where Twilight Princess would take place at least six years after Majora's Mask and you would play as the Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. The final version of Twilight Princess is still a sequel to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, but takes place 100 years after and you play as a new Link
4:33 see this is one of the things that bothers me, I love Nintendo but they are constantly putting their fans out to dry over the prospect of new players. Like c'mon your fans are fans for a reason, they are the loyal customers you are pandering to and who your product is for. We miss out on great shit because, "What about new players?" which yes I get a company should always want to expand and get new customers. However that should NOT be at the expense of your CURRENT customers. How come we miss out and get shafted on possible greatness just cuz some other Dinklebergs did not play the previous game? So what? Who cares if they wanna try this game let them go back and experience the other game first. Nintendo ALWAYS does this and it drives me bat shit insane.
They still market their games for kids because they assume some runny nose kid was going to be disappointed and crying because their parents haven't bought them a Playstation instead, that's why despite they are great developers they still tumble on the same rock, but how can you blame them after the massive success of BoTW where a good chunk of players were new to the franchise and will never play any of the older titles just for the lore, they have to think about the market too, and I'm not defending them, I hate their cold hearted corporate predatory tactics but they are a business too, they just want new people to be excited for the new product so they can keep selling, its a necessary evil we the actual fans and long term followers have to burden I'm afraid.
@@CheezeBreaux No I get that I totally do but BoTW was an exception an outlier and not the rule. I generally doubt with Nintendo's sequels to their big IP's they magically had a new massive increase of new fans.
@@CheezeBreaux Plus BoTW isn't a sequel to any existing game, its just another entry into the Zelda franchise so there was no need for them to add or change anything for new potential fans. Where as Twilight Princess IS a straight up follow up to Ocarina of Time.
@ I get it, I only used BoTW as an example, my point is that they always change the formula based on their market projections, they always try to attract new consumers instead of concentrating on their loyal fanbase, they struck gold with BoTW, and as you said, it is a non related game, but it is the culmination of experimenting with their other titles in the franchise over the years, it wasn't just a coincidence, and as I said, despite they put a lot of love and effort on their games, they are also a company so they make decisions based on what sells best, or at least what they think will be the next breakthrough, even if it goes against their creative vision in some ways, that's the dark side of Nintendo everyone gives for granted nowadays but also since the past couple of decades. I love all the Zelda Games but I have always had a void in my heart for all those ambitious promises they never fulfilled for thinking it will not sell well or that it won't attract new players who don't even know that Zelda is the F-ing princess and Link is the protagonist.
Is the gamecube version of Twilight Princess any good? I've always played the wii version of it. I never really knew it was on the gamecube until a year or so ago.
Haven't played the GameCube version, but I have played the Wii U version which is based on the GameCube version and not the Wii version, and I personally preferred that version over the Wii version due to its button controls and the world not being flipped
@HMMadsen did the Wii U version use the motion controls? I feel like I might try the gamecube version for something different since there's no motion controls on the gamecube version
@@FerinaAryele The Wii U version doesn't use motion controls, at least not for swinging the sword (there you just have to press the B button like prior Zelda games). Gyro controls can be used with items that require aiming akin to Breath of the Wild like the bow, boomerang, or clawshot, but it's optional and can be turned off if you prefer to aim with the C-stick. The Wii U version is just the GameCube version but better
It’s interesting that we never really got the lost woods original concept (I haven’t played totk so maybe it’s there) but BOTW lost woods is similar, but you get sent back with the fog so it isn’t fully open ended And I did not enjoy the botw lost woods, so I wonder if the oot or TP lost woods were are good as we think
I imagine those ones would be more akin to ALTTP being that they were more open and maze like. BOTW technically. can be open if they removed all that fog I imagine but I guess they wanted to stick to the gimmick of it being a "lost woods"
It's not there in TotK. In fact, you can't even access the Lost Woods in that game because you get sent back by the fog by just trying to enter it. In BotW you can at least follow certain paths where you will be able to venture into the Lost Woods, but in TotK you just get sent back no matter where you try to enter into it
If they made a third game following oot mm and it was the last adventure that link goes on as an adult (an actual adult) or even an older middle aged link how he is filled with anguish that no one remembers him for his greatest adventure he goes on one last adventure and becomes the heros shade....id buy the fuck out of that
Just an observation & opinion here, but I assume you essentially added that disclaimer about this not being proven because of troll comments. I wouldn't bother doing it lo, f 'em lol. Good video.
@@Vulpas heh so you noticed lol but yeah it's part of the reason. But other part is that some is still just a theory based on evidence and not definitive proof but ultimately yeah that was made cause I imagine I might get comments that I just randomly made up stuff as fact lol
@TheObsessiveGamer haha yeah I did. It's too bad you get that kinda negativity, that ain't fair. Anyway, I appreciate your channel, keep up the good work bud.
Real talk, I still think a game that looks/feels/plays like this is viable today. I just have no idea how you go about creating things in this style without losing your mind with UV layouts. Otherwise, you start doing stuff in world space materials and that tends create issues of repetitiveness and introduce performance overhead from how you need to blend other materials together. How on earth did devs go about creating retro games with the retro tools available?
(not done with the video) but this feels like its more than likely a development area used for showcasing gameplay mechanics and getting screenshots and video
Another youtuber who made the same kind of video said the lost woods or a fragment of it is actually in the game. Players cant get to it because its of course out of bounds.
No it's not in the game, there is no way there. The only thing out of bounds is what I showed past the Master Sword and that is what most seem to wanna refer to as the "lost woods" but in reality it's not there. The map was long deleted
@@TheObsessiveGamer oh. Dr Wily made a video about it. Although he called it the beta forest. He says its still in the game but there arent any entrances.
@@jojikyre5470 I've seen that video, it's more or less what I was showing here with the Sacred Grove in having trees out of bounds that look like the Beta Forest. However this isn't the beta forest as it's just a backdrop here.... BUT as I mentioned in the video, I do have a theory that this section of hte game was possibly plucked out of hte old beta forest and put here and kept trees in place there as a background. The actual Beta Forest however is gone though. All that we see in the Sacred Grove is really just a backdrop that looks reminicent of it at this point.
With no disrespect, I'm just pronouncing it by the standard English pronunciation of it which is Ah-Ka-Rina. Nintendo themselves pronounce it that way via their commercial, and that pretty common here. It's really just an accent thing here with it
I beat the game once and never thought of touching it since.. I recently watched a speed run video of it and don’t remember anything aside from the bare bone basics. It wasn’t a memorable game. Just felt like a plate of plain oatmeal. Some people love that stuff. Good on them
Nah you fucked up one part the master sword is resting in the old temple of time from oot you can see the ruins plus the dungeon not sure how you missed that part
@@Mystelblade nah, you fucked up by not listening to how I said it probably wouldn't be the master sword there cause in a Ocarina of Time Sequel, the Temple of Time wouldn't be in ruins and in the middle of the forest
That's plenty of time though, at least for Nintendo up until around the Wii era. The story of Ocarina of Time was for example entirely rewritten to include Young Link and time travel pretty late into the development of the game
The idea of link turning into a wolf and the twilight princess were very stupid ideas! I’d have been a better game if those were not the core ideas of the game.
Typically when content is cut from a game, it is recycled for future games. Pretty sure the beta lost woods in this game is what eventually became the lost woods featured in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. The similarities between the forests in both games are unmistakably similar, as if the concept was the same for both.
This has to be the lost media I'm most hyped for, I remember as kid spending half a day watching those "Possible way to the beta forest" videos and trying the bomb+sword swing glitch to reach to it. I was quite hopeful about i'ts existence and spent hours exploring behind the master sword zone, and just kept falling out of bounds. I hope some day some developer version of this game can see the light so I can at last see the forest with my own eyes.
I went a decade or more thinking we’d never see OOT beta maps, now look at us. Never give up hope!
I've been waiting 20 years now for the E3 2005 demo to leak. I'm not giving up.
The way I lit up seeing this in my sub box. It feels like it's been so long since anyone's talked about this; we datamined the game, didn't find it, and moved on. I really haven't heard any of these connecting statements and theories before and I've watched hundreds if not thousands of Zelda videos. You're the real deal, dude.
My soul hurts knowing a 3rd OoT Era Link game was once in the works. I've always felt like his story was incomplete. I wanna know if he found Navi. TP as it is now makes even more questions too. How'd Link lose his eye? What's his armor from and when did he become so very adept at swordsmanship that he knows stuff no one else does?
It's very much unofficial, but have you ever heard of MajorLink's Hero's Purpose animated series? It might help with these desires of yours, even if only slightly. The animation is a bit rough in the first couple episodes, but it gets better as it goes on, and the story is pretty good.
I remember when they showed that trailer, me and my friends thought the new Zelda is going to be openworld. In the trailer, you saw how Link is riding through many big areas seemlessly into battle, and then there is the whole open woods areas.
Basically, we thought that new Zelda game (later known as TP), is going to be what BotW is today.
TBH though, if this was going to be the first "open world" 3D Zelda, I kinda think the GameCube wasn't really ready to render that sort of thing if it would be as flat as the trailer.
@quillion3rdoption Explain that to 14 year old me.
I kinda knew that open world games look bad, looking at GTA Games on PS2.
But with the more powerful hardware on the GCN, & the whole world not as big as Something like a GTA, & some Nintendo magic, we thought it might be possible.
@@quillion3rdoption there is a decent bit of open world games on the gamecube and pretty decent looking games at that, the gamecube was more than powerful enough for that especially with optimization actually being a priority in gaming at the time unlike today
Wow I finally get to hear about this over 20 years later!
The first couple trailers were extremely hype inducing. I watched them over and over and over when I was little.
Rumors was that lost was gonna return for Twilight Princess sequel that never released
10:35 I might have to disagree about the trees here around the Temple of Time ruins. These trees were most likely just placed to merely give the appearance of the forest continuing out and are there to break up your view of what is just a big perimeter wall with a flat texture around the back. It is a typical set design trick.
Also, the part of the original trailer with the "Doshin" the giant looking guy- it appears in the trailer twice. The part where Link dives under water in the woods (see here: 1:43 ) is the _same exact area_ as the spot he is walking in by the giant (see here: 1:58 ). This was something I noticed wayyyyyyyy back then when I watched this trailer on repeat. The shape of the geometry of the pond, most notably that big tree root with the vines on it visible in both scenes, and the textures all point to this being the same exact spot. Maybe it floods or drains at some point.
Man, I miss the feeling of anticipation this game gave me back then before it was out. I just don't get that anymore with upcoming games.
What I meant more is that the area may have been lifted from the original forest and made into its own area while reutilizing some of the varied trees of back then as a backdrop more. Not that it literally was the beta woods
I remember this from trailer analysis' back in 2004 😅
It's hard to deny the possibility these were made just for the trailer sadly, but I like to think they were at least testing what they can do with open fields at the time. "Can we make more places like Hyrule field?" might have been a thought process they went through.
I don't think it was just for the trailer since the "Forest Field" location existed with variations of a Twilight version too as well as other "rooms". The actual trailer versions were the ones that said "Wood" on them as I understand.
It was always funny how similar it was to Ocarina of Time’s beta Forest.
That was discovered to be part of the early Hyrule Field map in the Gigaleak. All that we have for it is the collision for it, empty and barren. There’s also some photos closer to the walls from Spaceworld, showing what the textures would’ve looked like
That quote from Shigeru Miyamoto ironically is what let me down so much about playing this game. Enhancing Ocarina of Time is a logical move, but where they went wrong in my opinion is the overworld. It somehow feels less imaginative and explorable. The music is great, the bosses, dungeon design (minus the items that are useless after you beat the dungeon) characters, all great.
Teenager me was incredibly, incredibly excited for Twilight Princess (I'll still always remember the 2005 trailer--that music really stirred me!). As time went on I have valued Wind Waker more, and don't think of Twilight Princess much, nor have I played it since. It's a fun game with lots going for it, but I feel that its creation as essentially a reactionary product (maybe I'm wrong about that though) somewhat limited its potential along the way.
@@flyforce16 I am with ya. I loved the 2d games, grew up on the 64, and GameCube. I never had a Wii and so only played it after TOTK when I bought a Wii to play WW and TP. I think if I would’ve played it as a kid I might feel different. But it does feel very reactionary.
@flyforce16 Idk I remember having the money to buy twilight princess for 2 or 3 years from like 6 to 9 years old, and to this day, it's my favorite Zelda. Wind waker was so boring I couldn't force myself to finish it the like 5 different times I've tried. Also if you 100% these games twilight princess has so much to do and collect throughout the overworld in the little space there is compared to later titles, it was insane. Just not as flashy as sailing a super vibrant/saturated sea in an equally vibrant/saturated boat lol
Yep. The overworld was huge, yet very much empty. Same with many, many areas. They are long, chorizo like corridors. Most of the game is a long corridor, with an oval and a loading screen on both ends. Disappointing, Oot had to put tricks all over but it understandable given the time and hardware. But I didn’t understand why, despite the game looking relatively low poly was everything still closed off.
@@hodgindaylon100 percenting TP sucks, gotta find poes at night but can't change the time of day? Collectibles that just don't matter, etc. TP is the worst 3d Zelda followed closely by Skyward Sword
Edit: before TP fanboys get upset over my opinion, the worst 3d Zelda is still better than most other games. TP isn't a bad game, not by any means...Just a very weak, boring, bland and played it too safe, Zelda game
6:53 - rancher/wrangler is more accurate of what he intended to mean, I remember in the original interview he chose the word "cowboy" as there wasn't a word for rancher/wrangler in Japanese to go with
4:34
"Back then we considered making it the sequel of Ocarina of Time, some years later..... but then we thought of the first-time players, who wouldn't understand a thing if you started as a wolf, so we changed it and had human Link from the start."
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EIJI AONUMA
He says this as if starting as a wolf would somehow make sense to those that had played Ocarina of Time... I don't really understand how. I have seen a few quotes like this, about the development of Zelda games, that are apparently intended to explain something yet seem nonsensical as an explanation; I don't know if it is translation errors or what, it confuses me.
On the other bit, I did kind of pick up on that the last time I played TP. That in hindsight, at the start of the game at least it was entirely possible for you to be playing as the same Link aged up into an adult. Nonetheless, if that's what they meant there, then the decision must have been changed VERY early in development.
The forest is great and very atmospheric the way it is in the final game. The limitations keep you curious about the rest of the world
I think it makes a lot of sense story-wise for why the Kokiri Village isn't there anymore. Since the game takes place in the timeline where the Deku Tree has died but a new one hasn't grown (since Link had no need to visit the Forest Temple), it's not unreasonable to assume the Kokiri simply died out. Some Hylians then managed to stumble upon their village decades later and decided to turn it into their own.
Also, there's a sort-of pond in the Sacred Grove like the one seen at 1:45. It's not very big, but it's what that clip immediately reminded me of. The other parts seen in the trailer (like the animals and various monsters, etc) were probably just put there to show off that the game has them. Like look, Link can carry cats now, how adorable! And he can swing his sword while riding, how exciting!
Wouldn't even be surprised if they put the boat in Ordon Village for the same reason, as the river REALLY isn't big enough to comfortably row through anyway. You can't forget, trailers and teasers are just meant to look good, they're not meant to represent the game faithfully.
Great video. Hope one day these beta maps are released somehow and restored by fans like the OOT ones.
My guess for the lake in Lost Woods would be that it could've been intended to lead to Lake Hylia, since so much of TP is meant to echo parts of OoT. If so, I'd also say it makes decent sense to cut it, since OoT-like shortcuts wouldn't serve much purpose in a game with fast travel.
Do we know what the E3 Dungeon (11:35) is? I hope there is a TP Gigaleak too some day
since it says 2006, it probably is the Goron Mines.
Only thing ever leaked from tp is a debug executable that nvidia forgot to remove from the nvidia shield version. It has lots of cool debug features to mess around with.
Knowing that TP was originally planned as a sequel to OOT’s Child storyline, I wonder if the delay to 2006 wasn’t just to make it a launch title for the Wii. Maybe it was because they had to rework 3D models and the story that was already written?
I also never owned the GameCube version sadly, I remember that it was released after the Wii version, in December. It makes me curious if the Soft lock Nintendo had to patch out of the Wii version was fixed before the GameCube version shipped?
I always preferred the GameCube version for the controls and the fact link is left handed like she should be lol
@ Did you typo or troll
About Link being a girl? 😂
It was indeed patched in the Gamecube version, among a few other minor glitches such as Green Chus forming when Blue and Yellow Chus merge.
This is how I know games such as this are timeless. Here we are 20 years later trying to find more information on the beta woods. It does take me back to 2001 when we were trying to find elements to OoT that we would learn much later.
I will say I hope to one day see more of the E3 2014 BoTW beta.
Zelda games seem to always go through massive changes in development, with the exception of Skyward Sword, with early builds looking like entirely different games from their released versions, Ocarina of Time being most dramatic example. It'd be incredible if a 2004 or 2005 build of Twilight Princess is found/leaked. Its one of my favorite games and I'd love to see these early maps in full detail someday, rather than just press screenshots and dreadfully compressed mid 2000's video recordings.
Skyward Sword actually did go through massive changes too. They just never modeled them; they have concept art for a bigger Skyloft, and even Aonuma admitted in a BotW BTS video that he wanted a more connected field in SS too. It likely just had rushed world design (because they spent so much time on MotionPlus, source Iwata Asks)so it didn't change much from the initial trailers.
It all comes down to those early interviews
@@GameOverJesse Indeed is the case and opens up so much possibilities now. Also just gotta say bro that your own video on this topic was a big influence on me making my take on it too :)
OOT, MM, and TP are my favorite in series. I hope the timeline gets explored again.
I loooooove your theory!! The fishing hole is so cool and I wish it was part of the main game... But I'm glad they preserved it... I want to study how it may have connected...
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
My favorite Zelda game
Was it your main childhood Zelda?
@ no that was Wind Waker
@@Themasktrooper I’m just always curious what makes people prefer certain entries over others.
mine too 🥹
Something I'd like to point out is that the people of Ordon Village are not Hylians. Hylians have elvish pointed ears while Ordonians have normal human looking ears. While they appear to have good relations with the Hylians, they are a separate group and race of people and might even be direct descendants of the Kokiri, though that is unconfirmed as far as I'm aware and is mostly speculated on because of the abundance of Kokiri logos around the area.
love your videos. but this time. it was a special video. as this is one of my favorite zelda games of all time-
It's amazing that people are still covering things like this for this game! 😊😊😊
Thanks!
Much appreciated :)
Twilight Princess is my favorite Zelda game
Twilight Princess is my least favorite Zelda game (since Skyward Sword and Zelda II)
Another great video, thanks so much!
Realistically it's much more likely that it was an area made very early in development to test and implement mechanics, interactions and enemies in a representation of what a normal environment of the final game would look like. That's why it's so flexible and open.
That's the reason why the area was in so much of the super early promotional material too, it was one of the few things that they had at that point that was in a state that looked like the what the final game was supposed to look like.
Based on the amount of cut content and huge changes from the final version of each Zelda game, I’m continually shocked we even have any finished games
I distinctly remember watching this trailer live and literally being knocked off my feet and falling backward onto the ground out of sheer amazement. Yeah, we've all wondered what happened to the forest but that's small potatoes here. Where the heck are my beta Dinolfos?!
what intrigued me most is Twilight Princess was considered as the direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and Majora's mask, setting in the future where OoT Link become a proper adult. i guess Eiji Aonuma changed this to make TP story as a standalone mythos while having OoT as reference.
Nice video man. Can you do super mario world: history and unused content soon please
It's so sad, that was one of the locations I was most looking forward to visit before release, it was very disappointing that the Lost Woods experience in TP was a bit too "curated", you know? After WW I was really itching for more free exploration (Like the islands) but both TP and SS failed to deliver in that regard IMO, and I think exploration and discovery are the heart of the franchise. I am glad that we finally kinda got woods that look like that in BotW, but I am still a bit sad that it relies on a gimmick rather than you actually getting lost.
The legend returns!
Sacred Grove is the lost woods of twilight princess you can hear saria song being played in the background as you move through it belive me they did not miss on this game oms
I remember all the rumors of the beta forest and the monsters that were never put in the game and the "sasquatch" lol. Its truly nostalgic and a cool but of the young internet age (lot of rumors, little answers!)
I’m hoping one day someone will try to recreate the beta forest
I was only 2 when twilight princess released and although it’s my favourite and first Zelda game(indoctrinating me into Zelda at age 4) I had zero clue about this lost area we never got. Probably would’ve scared me too much to continue playing but still sad about never getting this entire part of the game
Can you talk about cut content for Epic Mickey? Because it’s Interesting
Ironically it ended up being an "Indiscreet Sequel" to Ocarina and Majora's with the Hero of Time being the Movement Tutor.😊
I wonder if TP originally being a sequel to MM can be dissected and put back together from what we know of the final game's plot 🤔
I personally feel that most of the final plot probably was going to be the OOT3 plot anyways. I can imagine characters like Ilia being a replacement for Malon for example with Link probably working for them as a wrangler, the kids in Ordon Village being just the Kokiri's, and Ganondorf still being banished to the Twilight Realm after being captured only to return a few years later (as opposed to a few hundred). Someone probably could mod that all together rather easily I imagine if they wanted to.
@TheObsessiveGamer Something tells me Ilia was an original character made specifically for the game with her prominent design. Especially since Malon would still be in Lon Lon Ranch and not in Kokiri Village.
Still can you imagine, had the game remained OoT3, how cool it would have been to visit all the characters like Saria, Ruto, Darunia etc in a timeline where they never became sages? Without any memory of the AT events and on next-gen GameCube hardware it would have been far more impactful than what we ended up getting. Also wondering why OoT Link would become a wolf...
13:19
Pssst
It was just a demonstration showcase the game, they created an environment to do such. The game was super early in development so they made literally this "zone" which gave the illusion that this was more then it actually was or again, it was not ment to be the scope of the actual area vs, something to show
I still think its hardware related. Or just to show off something
I am fairly confident that the GameCube could do this especially since fog was gonna be used to obscure some of the distance.
I think you can see hints of breath of the wild in these early stages of twilight princess, and i do remember aonuma saying something like that during the release of twilight princess hd before botw.
I hope we will one day get a zelda game based on the lost woods. I believe the lost woods is the piece that connects all the zelda games. Think about it every zelda game has some version of the lost woods. Child link after Ocarina of time traveled to Termina and after termina he got into the world of Twilight Princess... They must all be linked to the lost woods.
I’m glad that the idea of a sequel to Ocarina of Time, past Majoras Mask was considered. Who knows….
I liked the scrapped ideas much more honestly, how unfortunate.
A sequel to Majora and Ocarina would have hit so hard, ngl
I do wonder why we haven't seen Ordon since twilight Princess.
Maybe a bit off-topic, but dayum, hearing these background tracks I really hope they add TP to Nintendo Music soon x3
It's crazy how forgiving zelda fans are to nintendo. They cut huge things every time in every game.
Twilight Princess was such a beautiful game and its a shame people look down on its art style in an attempt to elevate botw/totk's art style. I really do hope we visit a hyrule similar to this as twilight princess carried an air of mysterious and sometimes eery beauty that the other games never had.
lost woods cut in Ocarina and twilight
It can't ever get a break can it?
Likely was cut during the conversion to the wii
We really need a Zelda game with a proper forest.
This is my most hype beta content this and mother 3
Isn’t the final game still a sequel to ocarina of time with the whole hero’s shade being oot link and all?
They are referring to Twilight Princess originally being a more direct sequel to Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, where Twilight Princess would take place at least six years after Majora's Mask and you would play as the Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.
The final version of Twilight Princess is still a sequel to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, but takes place 100 years after and you play as a new Link
7:44 the ordon people are not "regular hylians" bc they dont have the pointy ears
4:33 see this is one of the things that bothers me, I love Nintendo but they are constantly putting their fans out to dry over the prospect of new players. Like c'mon your fans are fans for a reason, they are the loyal customers you are pandering to and who your product is for. We miss out on great shit because, "What about new players?" which yes I get a company should always want to expand and get new customers. However that should NOT be at the expense of your CURRENT customers. How come we miss out and get shafted on possible greatness just cuz some other Dinklebergs did not play the previous game? So what? Who cares if they wanna try this game let them go back and experience the other game first. Nintendo ALWAYS does this and it drives me bat shit insane.
They still market their games for kids because they assume some runny nose kid was going to be disappointed and crying because their parents haven't bought them a Playstation instead, that's why despite they are great developers they still tumble on the same rock, but how can you blame them after the massive success of BoTW where a good chunk of players were new to the franchise and will never play any of the older titles just for the lore, they have to think about the market too, and I'm not defending them, I hate their cold hearted corporate predatory tactics but they are a business too, they just want new people to be excited for the new product so they can keep selling, its a necessary evil we the actual fans and long term followers have to burden I'm afraid.
@@CheezeBreaux No I get that I totally do but BoTW was an exception an outlier and not the rule. I generally doubt with Nintendo's sequels to their big IP's they magically had a new massive increase of new fans.
@@CheezeBreaux Plus BoTW isn't a sequel to any existing game, its just another entry into the Zelda franchise so there was no need for them to add or change anything for new potential fans. Where as Twilight Princess IS a straight up follow up to Ocarina of Time.
@ I get it, I only used BoTW as an example, my point is that they always change the formula based on their market projections, they always try to attract new consumers instead of concentrating on their loyal fanbase, they struck gold with BoTW, and as you said, it is a non related game, but it is the culmination of experimenting with their other titles in the franchise over the years, it wasn't just a coincidence, and as I said, despite they put a lot of love and effort on their games, they are also a company so they make decisions based on what sells best, or at least what they think will be the next breakthrough, even if it goes against their creative vision in some ways, that's the dark side of Nintendo everyone gives for granted nowadays but also since the past couple of decades.
I love all the Zelda Games but I have always had a void in my heart for all those ambitious promises they never fulfilled for thinking it will not sell well or that it won't attract new players who don't even know that Zelda is the F-ing princess and Link is the protagonist.
im pretty sure those woods ended up becoming the faron woods
They finally made the lost woods right like how it was supposed to be on the 64DD in Breath of the Wild. 😅😅😅
Is the gamecube version of Twilight Princess any good? I've always played the wii version of it. I never really knew it was on the gamecube until a year or so ago.
Haven't played the GameCube version, but I have played the Wii U version which is based on the GameCube version and not the Wii version, and I personally preferred that version over the Wii version due to its button controls and the world not being flipped
@HMMadsen did the Wii U version use the motion controls? I feel like I might try the gamecube version for something different since there's no motion controls on the gamecube version
@@FerinaAryele
The Wii U version doesn't use motion controls, at least not for swinging the sword (there you just have to press the B button like prior Zelda games). Gyro controls can be used with items that require aiming akin to Breath of the Wild like the bow, boomerang, or clawshot, but it's optional and can be turned off if you prefer to aim with the C-stick. The Wii U version is just the GameCube version but better
@HMMadsen OK thanks I was just wondering about that
5:59 I think that house was just a place holder
Why haven’t we been able to mod these areas back into the game?
It’s interesting that we never really got the lost woods original concept (I haven’t played totk so maybe it’s there) but BOTW lost woods is similar, but you get sent back with the fog so it isn’t fully open ended
And I did not enjoy the botw lost woods, so I wonder if the oot or TP lost woods were are good as we think
I imagine those ones would be more akin to ALTTP being that they were more open and maze like. BOTW technically. can be open if they removed all that fog I imagine but I guess they wanted to stick to the gimmick of it being a "lost woods"
It's not there in TotK. In fact, you can't even access the Lost Woods in that game because you get sent back by the fog by just trying to enter it. In BotW you can at least follow certain paths where you will be able to venture into the Lost Woods, but in TotK you just get sent back no matter where you try to enter into it
@@HMMadsen I know lol, that was a joke
Listen, I havent seen the vid yet but imma sub and like if you're gonna make stuff about cut content.
I mean if you look at my backlog of videos, I think that tells a story lol You got a lot to binge :)
1:50 obviously it leads to the unicorn fountain xx
If they made a third game following oot mm and it was the last adventure that link goes on as an adult (an actual adult) or even an older middle aged link how he is filled with anguish that no one remembers him for his greatest adventure he goes on one last adventure and becomes the heros shade....id buy the fuck out of that
Just an observation & opinion here, but I assume you essentially added that disclaimer about this not being proven because of troll comments. I wouldn't bother doing it lo, f 'em lol. Good video.
@@Vulpas heh so you noticed lol but yeah it's part of the reason. But other part is that some is still just a theory based on evidence and not definitive proof but ultimately yeah that was made cause I imagine I might get comments that I just randomly made up stuff as fact lol
@TheObsessiveGamer haha yeah I did. It's too bad you get that kinda negativity, that ain't fair. Anyway, I appreciate your channel, keep up the good work bud.
Twilight Princess needs a sequel.
The lost woods are in twilight princess it's where you find the old temple of time I believe it's where the master sword was placed
Real talk, I still think a game that looks/feels/plays like this is viable today. I just have no idea how you go about creating things in this style without losing your mind with UV layouts. Otherwise, you start doing stuff in world space materials and that tends create issues of repetitiveness and introduce performance overhead from how you need to blend other materials together. How on earth did devs go about creating retro games with the retro tools available?
I think that Twilight Princess should get a port onto the Switch
They tried to make the woods, what they could not from Zelda64
(not done with the video) but this feels like its more than likely a development area used for showcasing gameplay mechanics and getting screenshots and video
just like OOT castle demo interior with the skeleton enemies, halo also did this in CE with a map called "spasm"
Well it takes place 100 years after oot
But if the lost woods were not found but then you found them. Wouldn't they no longer be the lost woods and be the found woods? 🤔
where part 3 of Banjo Kazooie Cut Cotent?
@@Cliffordlonghead planned to come very very soon 😉
@@TheObsessiveGamer thanks
Hm, that explains why this game feels so much like Ocarina of Time 2 for me
Not a bat. It’s a keys
My 2nd fave Zelda game ever! (After Majora’s Mask!)
Another youtuber who made the same kind of video said the lost woods or a fragment of it is actually in the game. Players cant get to it because its of course out of bounds.
No it's not in the game, there is no way there. The only thing out of bounds is what I showed past the Master Sword and that is what most seem to wanna refer to as the "lost woods" but in reality it's not there. The map was long deleted
@@TheObsessiveGamer oh. Dr Wily made a video about it. Although he called it the beta forest. He says its still in the game but there arent any entrances.
@@jojikyre5470 I've seen that video, it's more or less what I was showing here with the Sacred Grove in having trees out of bounds that look like the Beta Forest.
However this isn't the beta forest as it's just a backdrop here.... BUT as I mentioned in the video, I do have a theory that this section of hte game was possibly plucked out of hte old beta forest and put here and kept trees in place there as a background. The actual Beta Forest however is gone though. All that we see in the Sacred Grove is really just a backdrop that looks reminicent of it at this point.
@@TheObsessiveGamer ooh ok i was very confused heh. Thanks for the explanation and great video btw!
YES, FINALLY!
My beta lost woods 😢💚 oot lost woods
Its pronounced "Oh+karina". That how the Italian inventor pronounces it.
Please don't disrespect my culture.
With no disrespect, I'm just pronouncing it by the standard English pronunciation of it which is Ah-Ka-Rina. Nintendo themselves pronounce it that way via their commercial, and that pretty common here. It's really just an accent thing here with it
@@TheObsessiveGamer Don't pay him attention, he's just trolling.
I felt ripped off
NINTENDO really needs to re re-release this game. And wind waker
just wind waker, twilight princess is 💩
Banjo part 3 please
It's coming very very soon actually as planned 😉
I beat the game once and never thought of touching it since.. I recently watched a speed run video of it and don’t remember anything aside from the bare bone basics. It wasn’t a memorable game. Just felt like a plate of plain oatmeal. Some people love that stuff. Good on them
Nah you fucked up one part the master sword is resting in the old temple of time from oot you can see the ruins plus the dungeon not sure how you missed that part
@@Mystelblade nah, you fucked up by not listening to how I said it probably wouldn't be the master sword there cause in a Ocarina of Time Sequel, the Temple of Time wouldn't be in ruins and in the middle of the forest
hmm gotcha fair enough
Theres no way they would have made such a massive shift direction in just 2 months from the teaser down to the launch of rhe game.
Well good thing there wasn't only 2 months between the teaser and launch there lol
That's plenty of time though, at least for Nintendo up until around the Wii era. The story of Ocarina of Time was for example entirely rewritten to include Young Link and time travel pretty late into the development of the game
bro what about the sigma lost woods
Refer to TOTK for that :P
hii
The idea of link turning into a wolf and the twilight princess were very stupid ideas! I’d have been a better game if those were not the core ideas of the game.
Typically when content is cut from a game, it is recycled for future games. Pretty sure the beta lost woods in this game is what eventually became the lost woods featured in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. The similarities between the forests in both games are unmistakably similar, as if the concept was the same for both.