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Today's episode is a reaction to a short from Capturing Christianity.
Original Video - • He Was SHOCKED When He...
My Other Videos Mentioned In This Episode:
Commanded To Love - • Commanded To Love: A P...
Deconstructing David - • If Pastors Were Honest...
God Is A Bad Therapist - • Divine Dysfunction: Go...
God's Voice, You, Or The Devil? - • God's Voice, You, Or T...
Divine Dichotomy - • The Divine Dichotomy: ...
God Needs Therapy - • God's Mental Health Is...
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Other Resources For You:
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- Recovering From Religion - www.recoveringfromreligion.org
- Dare To Doubt - www.daretodoubt.org/resources
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- Secular Student Alliance - secularstudents.org
-The Humanist Society - thehumanistsociety.org
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:34 Clip
1:12 Two Kinds Of Atheists
4:05 Let's Talk Church
7:56 Watered Down Christianity
12:38 Good Without God
14:18 Fundamentalism Vs Progressivism
16:12 The Hidden Harm
18:31 Church To Church To Church
21:04 Religion Is The Issue
22:24 Final Thoughts
23:40 Patron Thanks
#churchissues #religiousharm #mindshift #atheism #atheist #exchristian - บันเทิง
Happy Tuesday! This one covers a lot of ground. Hope you enjoy it!
I’ve self improved reading Napoleon Hill, Dale Carnegie, Bertrand Russell… In my opinion they took religious scripture, took the word God or Jesus out of it and placed a person, us as the focus of the improvement already holding the knowledge, in need of finding it on the inside. Same massage. Selling a need for a product that doesn’t alienate its buyer by creating a cult. Self improvement is the most narcissistic thought I ever had. No matter how you sugarcoat it, you will not create a humble narcissist, you’ll have a person lost in confusion and guilt. Now they will have more problems and religion will sell more products.
Hey Brandon, this is the 3rd or 4th video of yours now that doesn't show up in my subscription feed, even with the bell on.
Idk if there's a weird setting or if it's TH-cam or what, but thought I'd let ya know.
@iluvtacos1231 this one didn't show up for me either. I had to search for it.
Hey Brandon, love the content!
I may have missed a video on “why the books left out of the Bible weren’t authentic God truth books “, when the authors wrote them as if they were just as authentic as the other books. If you have covered that topic already, can you direct me to the video? If not, I’d love to hear your take on this subject! Thanks for all you do❤
@tylertucker2608 hey there. I dont have a video yet on the canonization process. Theres more to it than a simple answer, but i do hope to do a video on it properly. Thanks for being here!
"I went to a Nazi gathering and the speaker talked about love. I've been lied to! They're not about hate, they love their race, their privilege, their power, their guns, they love hard work and are also into barbecue! My kind of people."
Loving these examples
Thank you my man you just made my day :D made me laugh out loud :D
Based
Excellent, excellent analogy. Beautifully put.
Are you genuinely saying that Christians are essentially Nazis? That seems incredibly irresponsible. You don't have to like Christians, and I think in many cases you'd be justified, but that's...I genuinely don't think that kind of rhetoric helps anyone.
After deconverting, I get to use my Sunday mornings connecting with my husband and kids; just talking, laughing dreaming together, relaxed, not stressed out about being at church/Sunday school, dressed 'nice', and having unexplained unease.
The same thing happened to me. Now I have a life that's mine.
Love that!
I love that you mentioned the 'unexplained unease'. Now that I think of it, I have had that experience too. I associate that feeling with seeing the fake happiness of Christians while I was in the Church, that smile that didn't exactly reach the eyes. There were other reasons for that feeling as well.
I LOVE having my Sundays back to invest my time/energy in my FAMILY and MYSELF. A very worthy investment.
"Amen!!"
The pastor didn't stab me in the face and said some nice fluff, therefor jesus is real.
Not all atheists are skeptics.. lol
Intellectually Lazy Schmuck: "These people were nice to me, therefore everything they say is true."
Me: "I have a bridge I'd like to sell you, you conventionally attractive, fiscally responsible rock star, you."
"I expected shootouts and drug orgies, but these Mafia guys were actually really nice and generous, wearing fine suits and with great passion for Italian cuisine. And I thought, this is very mild. I think I've been lied to."
This is perfect! That should have just been my whole video.
Brilliant!
For every one atheist that converts theres a dozen faithful that are deconstructing. Honestly apologetic conversations are so tired repetitive and played-out, you have the patient and resilience of a saint
Ha. Thanks and yes it seems the trend is indeed not favoring christianity.
Clearly, these former atheists never truly didn't believe.
Theyre stuck with the old script XD
What else can they say. Be a EUNUCH for YWH. YWH THE BABY, PREGNANT WOMAN, ANIMAL GENOICDER, SLAVERS, PEDO and LOTS MORE. The MEDIA is part of the Club CON People. ALL MASON. People really don't know the EVIL SCIUM PSYCHOS that made up YWH are the who Rules The World. ALL MEDIA HAS TO DO is say this month we are going to read you ALL OF YWH BOOK, ALL OF IT. IMAGINE THAT. THEY WONT. the attacks they do on YWH are for show.
I would probably put money on you being right, but is there any data to support this?
Most people that convert have not learned a lot about the bible and the history of Christianity before their conversion.
Most people that deconvert did so after a lengthy process of scrutiny on the faith they held dear.
And when they learn, he's flooded with -excuses- apologetics
You're wrong. Many of us have studied the bible and /or read most of it. Many of us have read books. I've read all of C S Lewis' books. I'm familiar with many of the Christian apologists. Because we don't accept it, doesn't mean we haven't looked at it, and many of us have grown up in Christianity, and gone to Christian schools. I sought out the truth, and found out that no one else has more knowledge or proof than I do. They have formulated beliefs, and they have opinions, but no proof. Your god doesn't seem very invested in people knowing him.
@@gusgrizzel8397 I think you misread the comment. I read it as "Most people that convert ...TO CHRISTIANITY... have not learned a lot about the bible and the history of Christianity before their conversion. Most people that deconvert...FROM CHRISTIANITY....did so after a lengthy process of scrutiny on the faith they held dear."
Really are you sure about that one? Are you really sure that most people that deconvert go through lengthy process? Because most people that I’ve seen that they convert, we’re either raised in an incredibly hostile fundamentalist Christian environment, or were pretty much on the bridge of Deconversion anyway and weren’t really much of Christians to begin with.
I mean what is your basis for your claim that on average people that deconvert know more about the history of Christianity.
I agree lukewarm/watered down Christianity is more dangerous than fundamental Christianity. It enables and provides a shield for the fundamentalists.
Part of my deconversion was listening to the sermons and realizing I was only hearing the good parts of the bible.
100%!
Do you really think that scholars wiser and more well-read than you haven't encountered all of these verses in their proper context for thousands of years? Do you really think your one-off reading in English only without historical context is able to understand what you deem at first-glance to not make sense?
This is such a weak argument. There are scholars that for 1500 years have upheld the “truth” of the quran. Do you really think you are the first to not believe in it?
@@Grandlett I don't think it's unfair to hold the holy book of a true deity to a very high standard. Dude's supposed to be perfect. If the Bible is the best he can do, then we got some problems. Might be time he put out a new revision for a modern audience.
@@MindShift-Brandon Argument? Might wanna look that up: I raised a point, I did not make an argument whatsoever. Come on, with this many subs/paypigs you owe it to them to not mistake a non-argument from an argument. That is day 1 of any phil 101 class. Anywho my point (which has nothing to do with other religious scholars) is that (OBVIOUSLY) a first-glance reading of a text is not the best one, nor should be it be the final interpretation when its contents are so important.
When LDS missionaries come to your door, their initial message is a sales pitch. That first day they're not going to tell a potential convert about all the problems with Mormonism. That first discussion isn't going to be about how Joseph Smith married a 14-year-old girl, nor how Smith married women who were already married to other living men. You're going to hear the nicer stuff. The first time you attend an LDS Church, it's quite likely everyone will be friendly to you, and you'll hear a positive message from the pulpit. You might hear about how wonderful the temple ceremonies are. You're not going to hear about the part of the temple ceremony where people pretended to slash their throats.
Even in the LDS church, they have been forced over time to make a few modifications. The temple ceremony has had a few changes; people don't pretend to slash their throats any more. Since 1978 blacks have been allowed to hold the LDS priesthood. They're trying to maintain their market share.
And that’s just for starters…mormoncorp is a fraud, and a cult hiding billions of dollars from their poor tithe paying members…🤑.
I grew up in a very religious family, and the church we went to actually did preach the “fire and brimstone” message sometimes, but it was always presented as if God wanted to save us from that fate. Then, several months ago, I started going to a church my friend recommended. This church was less about “fire and brimstone” and more about loving and worshiping God for what he does in our lives. In that moment, I felt closer to God than I ever had before, and everyone around me was encouraging me that I was doing the right thing. Since I was getting closer to God, I wanted to start reading my Bible more, starting with the Old Testament. That’s when the reality of God’s atrocious acts hit me. Specifically, the final plague on Egypt. I could not see how a God who calls himself “loving” could slaughter so many innocent people just to show his greatness. I tried really hard to get it to make sense, I asked my pastor, my friends, my family, but no one gave me an answer I could accept. I realized my moral code would not let me worship someone like this, and the only way I’d be ok with this story is if it wasn’t true. It’s been very hard deconverting, and I’m still in the process, but your videos have been helping me see things more clearly and handle this change. Thank you :)
So glad to hear its helping. Thanks for being here and for sharing this.
"my moral code would not let me worship someone like this"....that hit me! As someone who was indoctrinated into this a child, it's crazy how this sense of morality got twisted and turned all the way around. Until I started Brandon's SBS, god's atrocities were righteous. De-converting is hard but you're not alone. Hugs for the journey 🙂
Same, something is wrong here was my thoughts. I had to stop reading the bible.
Some Christians will say something like, "The Old Testament is part of the Christian Bible for historical reasons and the New Testament is the "new covenant" between God and His people, and somehow Jesus brought.....yada yada yada and whatever. Somehow OT Jealous Jehova became more loving because he had a "come to Jesus" moment.
Thank you for sharing. It is hard becoming a non-believer but, following the truth is sometimes hard. All of my family still believe, and my mother is in denial, luckily I have my wife who is also an atheist. But, even if I were all alone in my disbelief in God, I would still be an atheist because it is the only thing that makes sense to me.
I grew up Catholic and later tried a few Protestant denominations. Like other said, the vast majority of my church experiences were positive. But that didn't stop certain messages from penetrating my psyche. Especially the ones from the nuns in Sunday school. They didn't back away from God drowning the entire earth, or Sodom and Gomorrah. I definitely feared God more than I ever felt his love. Despite that, I was a devout follower all through high school and college. One of the more jarring incidents for me was when my brother, who was an addict and suffering from mental health issues, committed suicide. The Catholic church we grew up in refused to give him a funeral mass because he had killed himself, which condemned him to hell (according to Catholic doctrine at the time). Combine that with the fact they wouldn't bless my marriage because my wife was Lutheran at the time and I really started to question things. It was shortly after that I left Catholicism. Again, we found some great churches that pretty much preached the love and sacrifice stuff, but as time when on the Christianity seemed to become more and more watered down until one Sunday we were basically singing a love song to god, and talking about growing our relationship with Jesus.
Again, that's all well and good, but all that stuff I learned as a child was still there - and still in the Bible - we just never seemed to talk about it. Looking back on it all, I can see just how emotionally stunting and damaging it was to me. I truly believe I was a born a 'broken sinner' and God had to sacrifice his son just to make me ok. No wonder I had self esteem issues for decades. While most Christians today are wonderful people, they do indeed practice a watered down Christianity that pretty much ignores the Old Testament and Revelations and just focus on Jesus. It's funny, the best Christians seems to actually be the least Christian, biblically speaking.
So very sorry for the loss of your brother. 😢 The catholic church wouldn't marry people of different faiths so my father converted to become catholic to marry my mother. He did not take religion seriously though as he badly abused my mother and his children. I find most Christians use religion and church going as a cover. That's the only thing they get out of it.
I'm very skeptical of the "I used to be an atheist" crowd. It's absurd when they say that the evidence was so overwhelming that they changed their mind. What? What evidence? 🙄
The worst are J.Warner Wallace and Lee Strobel. They totally pander and lie and scam.
I've seen Christians testify about how either of these guys "proved" the stories and they've obviously not looked at their stories very closely.
This CC clip doesn’t give anywhere close to full context for Dr. Garth’s acceptance of the God proposition. His story is quite interesting and might be the most compelling of all of the testimonies I’ve heard. He’s a biologist who came to his faith by the questions raised by his research. I don’t agree with his position, but this clip that was used sells his reasoning way short. I understand this was a response to what was provided by CC. Shame on Cameron for thinking this was the most remarkable part of Dr. Garte’s story.
@@scottgodlewski306 It's always subjective. If someone wins the Lotto, they can say God did this for me! It's never undeniable proof or evidence. Never.
@@gusgrizzel8397 Didn’t say it was. I don’t share Dr. Garte’s view but this clip does not fully represent his testimony.
@@scottgodlewski306 Testimony is not proof of anything at all. No one cares.
lil backstory for me. i spent my first years in church sleeping on my moms purse. and when i was lil she let me. but approaching 2nd grade 1st communion i was started to be forced to stay awake, then the following year of much greater indoctrination than i had had until that point sent me into freaking panic attacks by 3rd grade. church is torture
Its so sad to hear
I dare anybody to set foot in an Adventist church every Saturday for a whole month and not feel a great deal of shame. That stuff messed me up. So it's actually insulting to hear a guy say he was the one that was lied to after going into a church once.
I was raised in the SDA church for 50 years. I WAS very committed to my faith, and like any other dedicated life long Christian, there was nothing anyone could say to lead me in another direction. Evolution was of “the devil” It is an on going journey for me, stepping stones if you will, to get the hell out of that way of thinking. I am so grateful this channel was introduced to me, I’ve been devouring Brandon’s every word. I apologize this comment was so long. I just needed to say it to someone who may understand.
Thank you
@THangel66 I was right where you were. Went to an Adventist college and everything. My deconstruction is ongoing and this channel helps a lot. I hope yours is going well also. ❤️
@@greenakutabi thank you 😊
I visited an Episcopal church a couple times, and they literally said during adult Sunday school that they don't talk about sin and hell. Normally I attended a church of Christ, which was always talking about sin and hell and how awful humans are. The Episcopal church was certainly a nice group and more helpful to the community in this case (my coC didn't do squat for the community). They're still following something that isn't real, and they're ignoring the icky parts of the Bible.
Loved the comparison of the Christian faith to a long running comic book series with the attendant continuity problems of having so many authors over such a long time.
Thanks. It just fits so well
Then the deus ex machina at the start of the new testament and john
I've recently started to think about it like modern stories such as Star Wars. It's just the Disney reboot. Lol
Isn’t Superman dead?
When I was deconverting, my mother wanted me to go to church one last time and "really pay attention". I had been going to church every single Sunday for 18 years...and she thought I just never listened to a word they said.
I agreed. The Catholic priest talked about how abortion is a sin and you should vote Republican so that we can stop abortion....
Yeah, there are good churches out there. But they are few and far between. I'd rather spend my Sunday appreciating my life rather than serve corrupt men.
"Go there for a year and tell me if you don't end up with a threat, a judgment, a shame, a guilt all placed upon you from a position of authority." -Mind Shift
My sister said she only reads the sweet/good scriptures. And she does ignore the others or makes no effort to understand all the other scripture that are ambiguous. It's like always wanting to believe in Santa Claus.
Precisely. Its just so sad.
Playing devils advocate here, but where’s the harm in her position? Is she using any of the bits she likes to harm or disenfranchise anyone else? Seems like she might as well be just reading some poetry she likes because she finds value in it.
@@scottgodlewski306 I agree with you to a point. For these reasons ..... I want point out the inconsistencies to my mom because I want her to keep that joy. I want that for all of them therefore I only point out things to her, because I want/need her to see my side. I went to a Christian college so I know what I know. And when I was growing up I only saw god as a punisher. I was always scared I was going to be punished for every little thing. They only see god as someone good I never did.
@@imjustsayingthough2261 If they’re telling you your position is wrong or trying to get you back in the faith, then I can understand it. But I don’t really have a problem with Bible cherry pickers who take a live and let live position.
@@imjustsayingthough2261 Yes, the good God is something like Stockholm syndrome, I think. If people make up a good god, then maybe that makes them healthier people, but the underlying message of Christianity and probably all Abrahamic religions, as I see it, is "Obey or be horribly punished/an outsider who deserves to be horribly punished." And in some cases, even the people who obey are horribly punished.
You hit the nail on the head with this one and it hits me on such a personal level. This is why I have such a difficult time keeping the peace with my family members that are Christians. I just hate everything that is wrapped up in the religion that they ignore, while also seeing the areas in their lives that are corrupted by their beliefs while they pretend they are better people because of their faith. It makes my blood boil.
i asked a youtubing "progressive" priest to come up with the best thing that he learnt from religion, in all his years. I framed the challenge that it should hopefully be better than what any teenager could come up with. to my surprise, he did respond, but merely it was some version of wanting good in the world....which just about any child comes up with.
that's what decades of concentrated theology gets you.
I've been secular all my life (25 years). I've been to a couple of different churches and I've never liked the atmosphere. It is always so oppressive, like i can physically feel everyone judging me. Its the same feeling when you arrive in a lecture hall late and everyone looks at you.
It's funny, the fundamental baptist church I went to everyone greets you and smothers you in welcomes... I think it is just as unwelcoming (not to mention I found out they are reminded constantly to greet and welcome visitors) as when you are stared at in silence. I would just like them to be honest and themselves.
lol same. also 25 years old. never been religious. and the only times i like visiting a church is when its empty and just to see the architecture and art😅. and then im out in 5 minutes. so much more peaceful than attending a sermon or something
As I child, my family and I went to our local Catholic church and we would mostly hear excerpts from The Gospels, Paul's Epistles, and occasionally Isaiah to reinforce the belief that Jesus' arrival was foretold by the prophets. We were a twentieth century church with twentieth century concerns and we were spared the brimstone and the wailing and gnashing of teeth. However, if we had gone to mass and the priest made sermons revolving around Job or Revelation or excerpts of the OT that promoted slavery, child slavery, and child rape, there would have been a mass - ahem - exodus from our parish.
As an aside, my first exposure to the Book of Revelation was by the schlock film "The Omen" and its sequels. It was my first exposure to the concept of an antichrist. I saw these movies when I was eleven and I was horrified. Even more so because it looked like the villain, Damien Thorn, won each and every battle against God until the eleventh hour. I read Revelation not long afterward seeing the films and realized how bats__t crazy John of Patmos' visions truly were. I backtracked to Genesis and worked my way up from there. It wasn't overnight, but I gradually cut my ties from Christianity and religion in general. So, I *guess* I owe the producers of "The Omen" series some thanks?
you sure you're not totally lying? I've been to VERY many Masses and they do not stray away from Job or Revelation. If you went to Mass you know they have a rotating schedule of scripture that covers it all over a period of I believe 3 years.
@@Grandlett Firstly, I do not appreciate being called a liar. As I said, my parish focused on the Gospels, the Epistles, and Isaiah. We did not touch on Job or Revelation. We did not even cover them in after school religion class. I had to discover those on my own.
@@Grandlett no one likes a closed minded Christian who clings onto stories from a book that clearly didn’t happen.
@@Grandlettthis may be a surprise to you but different churches and different priests focus on different things. That's not even touching on different denominations.
Drake, Grandlett, you're both kinda right. I went to Catholic seminary. Catholic churches are on a set 3-year schedule of readings that include portions of every book except Obadiah. It Is a mandatory cycle.
That said, the priests have tremendous power over what you remember and focus on as the message. Many readings also permit abbreviated readings. Furthermore, each year has a theme, focused on Mathew one year, Luke another year, and John the third.
Drake is not lying, but unless the priest was going completely rogue, his memory was manipulated. It's also quite possible that he started paying attention during a John year.
Many of the high profile conversions of late seem to be political in nature. In his debate with Bill Nye, Ken Ham said that people should all pretend the Bible is true so they support conservative politics. It would seem that worldly conservatism is what leads people to the Bible, not the other way around.
I think it goes both ways. Some people find that religion justifies their already ignorant views, and some people vote conservative because it's "the religious party" they're supposed to vote for. My mom is a genuinely loving and kind person, but I think if it weren't for her church, she wouldn't be insulated in a community that perpetuates ignorant harmful conservative politics, and would probably be much more invested in social justice. I honestly think her religion holds her back and misdirects her good will and efforts. Imagine genuinely wanting to give back to society, but you're manipulated into giving your time and resources to evil corrupt people instead.
It's like those iceberg memes that you see everywhere...
Religious love is the bit above the water, and all the hate is just below the surface
That is an excellent example!
To me it felt more like Jaws 🦈
I think it's even simpler than that.
This dude was an atheist getting up there in years.
He's looking for a support network, his critical faculties are starting to faulter,
and he wants to slip into the church, but needs a story.
"Gee, what a laid back sermon !"
Ok, dude. That's his, "How I came to christ testimony." ?
Not everything is a precision volley between faith and reason.
There's also complacency, fear and slouching toward bethlehem.
Your rebuke at 3:00 is correct. I suffered years of Hellfire threats as a child growing up. Thank you.
Thanks for being here!
I remember when I was younger I always wanted to hear the real words from the Bible, not the pastor's interpretation. It was like one verse, then 45 minutes of the pastor explaining what he thinks it means.
Right?! I remember that also. Insane that so much has to be said on behalf or in defense of this word of god
Same. It was my secret way of rating how well a pastor did. More scripture being better of course.
Hell of a gig though.
Take a few sentences from any old book, ramble about it for forty minutes, then knock off for the week.
@@rainbowkrampus pretty sure priests and pastors do more than the Sunday sermon. Like... All week long services, counseling, even clerking.... Be wary of assumptions like that....
@@cyrenedomogalla5127 Context bro, context.
Thanks for making this video and for your channel in general. It has helped me so much more than you’re ever going to realize. 💛
My pleasure and its an honor to hear that. Thank you!
I spent about 40 years feeling like a failure and totally rejected because God never responded in any way to my prayers. No matter how much I attended church, taught Sunday School and VBS, attended Bible studies, studied the Bible, prayed and tried to live a Godly life I was completely ignored by God. Others would declare God had spoken to them, answered their prayers and blessed them but, He was totally silent and non-responsive to me. Naturally I believed I was doing something wrong because God is perfect! What a way to go through life! I don’t think I have enough years left to ever heal from that since I’m 71 and already had 3 open heart surgeries. Damn those lies told to millions every day! Life is hard enough - we don’t need that garbage on top of it!
best wishes for a long and happy life. 👍💕
May you heal and find peace and love.😔🙏❤️
@@blueStarKitt7924 Thank you!
Now we can dump the garbage and realize we were never lacking. Who we are has always been enough. There is no God's from any religions handing our judgements, rewards or punishments. What a relief! We can return to who we really are. Love without condition.
Same. Then I realized my conscience and inner dialogue, which I always knew were my conscience and inner dialogue, is what the Christians around me were calling the "voice of god". Ummm, no.
I find it hard to believe that someone really had so little contact with both churches and believers to have this genuine expectation, that there really would be yelling and accusations (not sure he expected that in general or only for him as a "not-yet-believer"). On the other hand, as you've pointed out, providing a nice atmosphere while glossing over the more repulsive parts of the Bible is hardly an argument for its correctness.
For sure! thanks for being here. Always enjoy watching your comments with others as well.
@@MindShift-Brandon Glad for having the opportunity to be here! 👍
That “new convert” is no doubt a ploy to try to get people into the lions dens! Especially since so many are walking out!
This is why the “none” movement is taking off so fast. Love to see a show covering this movement.
People really are learning to despise religion with its laundry list of hypocritical ideas/demands.
Religion makes you "FEEL" good but once you get over that and start to dig deeper to get closer you eventually end up like the rest of us in here and have become atheist.
If that was the case for you, then you never knew the love of God that is in Jesus Christ the Lord.
@@christophergibson7155 here we go again.... That doesn't sound like something Jesus would say to someone he never met now does it
@@phillysupra It most certainly does. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” (John 14:7) "But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” (John 8:45, 47).
"For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks." (Luke 6:45) Jesus is saying this to YOU.
@@christophergibson7155 Jesus also did not push religion on people remember. Stop trying to tell me scripture. I'm a former ordained pentecostal minister here in Philly. Took several years of seminary and college theology courses just to get a closer understanding. Ask yourself why there are 29 missing chapters(eidt : books not chapters) from the bible.. Ask yourself whom it was that repopulated the world after the flood
@@phillysupra Jesus did not push "religion" on people, but He told them to "repent". And that is what I am here for. To warn YOU. You need to read the Holy scriptures, and stop denying The Savior who died for You.
"I'm a former ordained Pentecostal minister here in Philly." It hasn't seem to help you much.
It does not matter what kind of label you have on the back of your name. What matters is that you KNOW and LOVE the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. There are no missing chapters of the Holy Bible. The early church fathers all knew what scriptures were inspired (breathed out) by God. And the 66 books of the Bible is the full counsel of the Word of God. Noah's sons Shem, Ham and Japheth were the ones who repopulated the earth after the flood. And we have this as an established fact of scripture....
"And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings," (Acts 17:26)
Brandon, please do not feel the need to apologize for what you said in this video. I feel you took a very fair and balanced approach to this topic.
Appreciate that!
@@MindShift-BrandonI’ve really struggled with what you briefly mentioned about mainstream religion essentially giving cover to the extreme fundamentalists. It’s not really the Lutherans fault but they do promote the faith based assessment of reality that fundies exploit.
0:39 As an atheist who grew up with no exposure to any religions by religious folk, and primarily learned about religions like Christianity from non-believers....I'm still genuinely trying to imagine what exposure to Christianity (negative or positive) would be required in order to produce a person with such ideas about it...an atheist who walked into Church for the first time *sincerely believing* "the first thing that would happen is the priest or the pastor would start yelling at you...telling you that you're sinful and going to go to Hell." 🤨
I struggle to picture how a full grown adult could still believe that _every_ church sermon involves the pastor screaming. If you consume enough stories set in America, exposure to church is kind of unavoidable...especially media about the holidays where more people than ever actually go to church - Christmas & Easter. (There are lots of Christmas movies that aren't even focused on Christianity at all, but a scene in a church still ends up briefly happening.) Had he seriously *never* encountered realistic depictions of your average Christian going to church? Never even saw a Christmas movie that included scenes of characters attending Christmas mass? Even media depicting characters hating church, or outright criticizing & making fun of religion, usually don't depict it like that. Point being: It's not as if depictions of church that accurately match this guy's first experience are *only* found in hardcore Christian films. Long before I knew anyone who went to church or attended church for the first time myself, I know I was exposed to what it was like indirectly through depictions in media and it wasn't that bad.
To expect it to start with screaming? Honestly, I can only picture a child imagining that to be the church sermon, and specifically a child whose only exposure to Christianity was like, Disney's "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," and its song "Hellfire"...? Ya know, a couple movies where angry Catholic priests played over the top villains & nothing else? Watched by a child who still has a very open mind & a limited understanding of the world... because age should bring improved logic & critical thinking skills that would help sow doubt about such a notion, while also bringing (to anyone living in America or a similar country) even more exposure to Christianity that further debunks it. I was raised atheist, by atheists, with little exposure to religion (in fact, I'd say my dad was an anti-theist as well). But my atheist family would have had to put serious effort into keeping me *that* sheltered from Christianity! I was exposed to many negative depictions of Christianity, including the angry sermons this guy describes. However, I feel like pretty quickly I also knew that Christianity branded itself as "love." Even before I went to church myself and listened to a pastor in person, I knew most Christians didn't hate church (besides boredom) while they did hate angry yelling...and I knew that there must be benefits to attending church besides fear of Hell. In general, I don't know how even a young atheist can spend time in American society without it becoming pretty obvious that Christianity does not hold power over Americans through pure outright violence & aggression, like the Catholic Church of the past.
~•~•~•~
The irony is that this guy presents his ridiculous misconceptions about church as if they were the result of only being exposed to anti-Christian propaganda produced by atheists. However, if you spend any time being exposed to the criticisms of Christianity, or atheists describing their negative experiences with Christianity...then you'd quickly be exposed to Christianity's obsession with "love" too!
Jesus Christ and Love are the 2 things most associated with Christianity! Both by Christians *and* atheists - even anti-Christian atheists.
The descriptions of Christian church that he references (a priest giving a hateful threatening sermon obsessed with sin, etc.)...seems to be referencing atheists criticizing Christians for how they talk about "sin," guilt people, use the threat of "Hell" a lot, and so on, (with his following statement further supporting this suspicion, as it directly refers to 'atheists discussing church'). Yes, this kind of aggressive preaching behavior performed by Christians is discussed a lot, but he frames it as if exposure to these discussions doesn't also come with an exposure to how this conflicts with all the other things Christians do and say. The descriptions of angry sermons are usually *juxtaposed* with descriptions of proposed "Christian love."
How can you spend time listening to atheists talk about "Christian hate" without hearing them talk about how "there's no hate like Christian love?" How can you hear people discuss the issues with Christianity, without encountering any discussion of huge issues like hypocrisy, the contradictory nature of their God, how often Christian behavior doesn't line up with their statements, the conflict between "loving everyone" & harsh judgment, and so on? You don't even need to be exposed to deep atheist intellectual arguments or whatever, because even *Christians* are constantly complaining about the problem of hypocrisy, calling out other Christians for being hateful & not acting like real Christians, not following Jesus properly, "giving Christianity a bad name," etc. (Point being: Had the pastor actually started the sermon as this "atheist" expected...then that pastor & sermon would be criticized by many Christians too!)
_What I'm trying to describe is that while obviously there is a spectrum when it comes to an atheist's exposure to Christianity, I struggle to see how certain positions could be possible. On one end, there's zero exposure to Christianity...on the other end there is maximum exposure, including personal experience with every single discussion and debate, every belief, every argument used by each side, etc. Anywhere in between is possible - an atheist who has yet to encounter all depictions of Christians & their beliefs, who so far has been exposed to only some of the negative opinions & criticisms of various aspects of Christianity. But, at the same time, some of the specific aspects & beliefs always go together, and if an atheist has been exposed to some then they've been exposed to all. (For example, it's easy imagining someone who has no clue about Christianity's Heaven & Hell, but it's difficult to imagine someone who literally only knows about the "Hell" part. It's easy imagining someone who knows nothing about the Bible, as well as imagining someone who knows everything and has read every single verse, both bad & good...but it's hard to imagine someone who knows only the bad verses and literally nothing else.)_
~•~•~•~
An adult atheist attending their first Christian sermon in person and being THAT shocked by the pastor talking about "love" (while not screaming about how they're a sinner going to Hell)....is like an atheist being shocked by the pastor reading from the Bible, and then the "atheist" going on the following passionate rant:
> "For years I've been hearing about how awful the Bible is, how it's so evil just reading it will turn you atheist...So, when I finally went to church for the first time and learned my first ever sermon was going to be nothing but Bible verses for 2 hours, I was baffled. I then witnessed the pastor having no trouble filling the hours with nice verses from the Bible, and I became even more baffled! He showed me the Bible spoke of love and kindness, including lots of nice stories where nice people did nice things. I didn't see any Christians in the audience abandoning their faith after reading the Bible, either. You know what? I kind of feel lied to!"
The problem is the same: Based on the reason for why the person was misinformed and the apparent source of their misconceptions...the specific details of their false expectations should be different. In the video's apparently real life example: Anyone who has heard about Christian Hell, sin, and judgment....has also heard about Christian Heaven, how Christians claim they "hate the sin, love the sinner," and judge out of love. If they've heard about Christians spreading hate, then they should have heard about Christians spreading hate in the name of love, and therefore shouldn't be surprised by Christians sermons filled with talk of love.
In my example: Anyone who has heard how awful the Bible is & heard about Christians not reading the Bible...has also heard about how Christians *cherry pick* certain verses, & heard about sermons only including the nice sounding parts of the Bible. Aka: Two criticisms of Christianity that only make sense if there *are* some nice sounding verses in the Bible. If, before they've attended church for the first time, an atheist has been exposed to any critical discussions surrounding Christians, church, and the Bible...then they should not be surprised when the sermon includes nice sounding Bible verses, or when the pastor encourages everyone to read the entire Bible, etc. Because that kind of hypocrisy is a fundamental part of the criticism!
/End rant sorry. 😅✌️
Grew up Catholic and had a lot of resentment towards my peers. I had put in the work and really tried to be present during mass and prayer. But I still lost my faith. It was upsetting for being judged as an atheist/skeptic in that environment, particularly by people that barely knew or could defend the tenants of Catholicism. By the time I got to college, many of my new friends would go to the Baptist center on campus for their weekly services. I tagged along because I had nothing else to do. I enjoyed the songs and free cookies. But most importantly, I liked the humility and openness that many of the kids there possessed. It helped heal much of the negativity I was harboring by shifting it away from Christians as people and more towards the religious ideology. I'm very grateful for that time period, even though I remained an atheist. Fun fact: One of their admins was writing their annual Christmas play that featured a character shaken in their faith. She decided to interview me about my perspective as an atheist when I came out about it. It was a relatively friendly exchange. Though I think she was disappointed that I didn't lose my faith due to some tragedy or being "mad at god." Lol
Oh yes they always hope you're mad at God. "Who hurt you?" Maybe God could try being a better guy and not have people constantly disappointed and angry with him.
I no longer believe but in my experience as a Catholic for about 45 years I would have to say was in all honesty around 90% positive. Yes there was some heavy charged preaching sometimes but that I have discovered it has to do more with the age and place of origin of the priest. For example, here in Puerto Rico most priest used to come from Spain. And that was the norm until the 80's. Most of them came with ideas and practices heavy influenced by Spanish very conservative culture. Since the 90' s , many Latin Americans have arrived has priest. And the change in attitude and style is very clear. The preaching has to do more with personal responsibility and social interaction. I would say even more that the whole theological stuff
What I see from U.S. evengelical Christianity is that is influenced by a crime and punishment mentality. The same way you have so many movies and tv series based on the justice system and the pursuit of criminals. The same applies to the way God is seen, as a punitive driven angry judge. Obsessed with the minimal infraction. I guess Calvinist thinking permiates most of the message in US chuches. The idea of you are a worthless piece of garbage unless you accept my particular version of the Christin deity. All others will burn in anguish forever. People convinced of their own righteousness are quick to judge.
Never apologize for thinking you're gong on a tangent. We're all ears and glued to your viewpoints because truth resonates.
From my review of people's conversation / deconversion stories, it generally seems like people convert because of emotional reasons ('the sermon was kind' or 'I was lonely') but deconvert *in spite of* their emotions ('I was terrified of losing my faith'). If someone simply hasn't examined the evidence because it just hasn't been on their radar... yeah, it makes sense that you get people like that man Cameron is interviewing.
Great point. I also think its pretty telling of which one might be more truthful. The one you make true because of feelings or the one that is true despite them.
You are absolutely right, most churches aren't about God but about members and money only. However, they are all under this nice message of Jesus saved us, lets love each other and give more money. Pathetic. The same church leaders are avoiding difficult questions about the bible but not because they don't know the truth, but because they don't want to loose members.
My Catholic upbringing was not that bad. I never got subjected to the horrors you might hear of today - I am not saying they did not happen at all, just that they did not at the churches I went to - but they were not why I deconverted, though they certainly did not help to try to bring me back. I stopped going to church for the same reasons many do: it was boring, it was irritating to get ready for, I had better things to do on a Sunday morning (or Saturday evening), and like family gatherings, there are a lot that you would rather not see, let alone be around; the deconverting was a separate matter.
Then there are my relatives who started getying more blatantly hateful around the time they started stepping up their church attendance. Is this a correlation or a causation? On its face, no. Was the church they attended spewing hate? Yeah, and no language barrier (Serbo-Croatian) was going to hide that fact.
So yeah, picking a church is like picking a single Jelly Belly out of a pile that has gag flavors (which can be literal) mixed in: it is not until you take that bite that you can be sure that you picked a good one, and looks are no guarantee of flavor.
The Catholic Church has undergone a massive shift since the 1960's. Those of us who grew up prior to or around the time of Vatican II definitely heard some horrific things, if not from the priest himself, then from the nuns in catechism class.
@@theresemalmberg955 Admittedly, I never paid that much attention, but looking back, I think that church my relatives go to is regularly headed by priests who are not exactly keen on anything even remotely decent being called for by the pope. Then again, if you know anything about the Slavs and the Balkan region, this should not come as a surprise (spoiler: their history is full of real f-ed-up sh^t, especially the segment where they generally sided with Nazi Germany - and you will still find plenty of such sympathizing there to this day).
It does seem odd that a North American would assume that every service in every church only threatened hellfire and damnation. It may be that he grew up in an environment where that was all he was exposed to, but it seems unlikely that he had no idea that other types of church exist: they are visible on TV and discussed in Christian circles.
Very hard to believe, especially in a country where the large majority of the population is Christian. I can understand the Christians having the misconception of the angry atheist mad at god who just wants to sin. There’s lot of areas where Christians have never met an (out of closet) atheist, but an atheist being clueless about the religion that shapes the society they live in is a stretch.
That dude is why we need to teach our kids about religion even if we are raising them rational/godless. He’s also awfully dismissive of religious trauma that ex-believers experienced…he will fit right in with the faithful 😢
In my community, I’ve seen more and more people go from hardcore orthodox church’s like Catholic or Gospel Baptists, to much more laid back off branches of Evangelical churches in the past decade. When I’ve asked friends of mine why they made the switch, I’ve had friends say something to the effect of: “Because they are nowhere near as hardcore as my old church was”. The ironic thing is, the vast majority of these people, when asked about what the sermon was about today, couldn’t tell me to save their life. Why? Because the draw is now the stadium seating, laser light shows, coffee baristas out front etc. They aren’t actually learning anything, they just go there because it’s “easier” to do on Sunday. Ironically, I don’t see their children coming back on a consistent basis to get a watered down version of Christianity and eventually, the younger millennials and Gen Z will be the ones who will need to come back consistently to keep the lights on and I don’t see that happening. The hardcore orthodox churches are mainly filled with Boomers and Gen X attendees. When they die off, their church will die with them and when Millennials and Gen Z come of age, the vast majority will stop going to the “soft” churches and they too will die off. And this is how Christianity will die…..not with a bang……but a whimper.
In my own family, that history has been repeated. My grandparents both came from extremely hard-core religions (Mennonite and Lutheran), where certain kinds of dress and behavior were strictly regulated, and "dialed down" a bit to Presbyterian (for them to make the interfaith marriage was daring at the time, too).
The Presbyterian church they joined eventually became hard-core: no drinking, no dancing, no card playing, etc. Both parents grew up in that kind of environment -- but it still had fewer strictures than their own parents had had growing up.
My parents, in turn, grew up to join more liberal churches, ones that didn't regulate behavior except by precept. I appreciate that they did that, but we still had the old "original sin" teachings and verses like "the rich man in his castle, the poor man at the gate/God made them high and lowly, according to their state"-- and of course you felt a certain satisfaction that you were apparently god-appointed to be, if not the rich man, at least pretty high up there.
In the next generation, my sister and her husband raised her kids in the Universal Unitarian church, which doesn't even claim Christianity, although it's clearly based in it. There's a lot of community action there: food distribution, raising funds to help people pay bills, providing rooms for meetings for LGBTQ groups, and so on. My niece and nephew now show a lot more interest in helping people on the ground than in religion (neither go to any worship service).
I became a pagan because that was my natural bent, although over the decades I find myself still digging out of the terrible programming Christianity provides, not only through churches, but in its secular incarnations: schools, professions, businesses, social mores, psychological attitudes all based on a tacit and hidden but powerful Christian ethos.
As with Brandon, there are individual Christians I respect very much. But the religion itself is responsible for a lot of harm and meanness.
@@sundayoliver3147 I live in Nebraska, a very conservative and Christian state. It’s certainly been interesting to watch the evolution of “faith observance” in this state for the last 3 decades. Boomers are the ones who stick with orthodox and have an almost dismissive attitude to anything they deem as “too modern” in their eyes. We have a Lutheran Church here for example that, one service is the “modern service” and there is a mix of every age demographic. Then, a “traditional” service after it and it’s exclusive filled with Boomers. The vast majority of my millennial friends have either ditched orthodox churches in favor of a “modern” church but do not attend it with any consistency anywhere near what the Boomers do, or simply have stopped going altogether.
There was a research paper conducted by Pew Research that said that, if projections stay as they are (and theres zero indication they won’t stay the course) at some point around 2048, America will be 50/50 Religious/Non Religious. By 2070 if trends stay that course, it will be 70% of America that will be religiously unaffiliated. Christianity has simply spread itself too thin by having anywhere from 40,000 - 80,000 different denominations. All with conflicting rules and beliefs. Then you add the hardcore Christian Nationalists into that picture and many of the millennials, Gen Z and Alpha have simply decided to walk away not just from Christianity, but any and all organized religions. 6,000 - 10,000 Churches close down every year in the US. I do see alot of New Age Gnostic beliefs growing to some degree (Wicca, Paganism, belief in Energy, or the Universe, or the Vibrations of life) etc. As the knowledge of the world grows and our understanding of life increases, organized religion is going to find it harder and harder to sustain it’s numbers as our understanding and it’s theology will at some point, if it already hasn’t now, be completely at odds with each other. Christianity is a religion of history, poetry, morality and other things that many people could still get behind.
At its core though, it makes claims about the world we live in that have been demonstrably proven to be false time and again. When you can demonstrate that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and yet your faith is telling you to believe it’s 10,000 years old, you’re at an impasse where you HAVE to choose sides even. Let alone all the man made scandals and in fighting that just seems to increase day after day that turns most people away from it. And when religion is nowhere near as reinforced by society or a culture and our understanding of life continues to grow, there will come a point where the vast majority of culture and society will HAVE to pick sides and I don’t see organized religion winning out in the near future.
From what I see, I think it's the most hardcore churches that are growing because they are the most authentic to the bible and many people want the real deal.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr You’re simply factual wrong. 6,000 - 10,000 churches are closing in the US every single year, despite what denomination you belong to, hardcore or otherwise. You can find out for yourself here…
th-cam.com/video/oPp-NTE6QwQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cfuMPBEEZHag4Gs3
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr You’re simply, factually wrong. 6,000 - 10,000 churches in the US are closing every year of every denomination, hardcore or otherwise.
Even "nicer" churches like the one I grew up in, that allowed questions (because it was attached to a university seminary) tell the story of original sin. And assume it as the basis of spiritual life. To me, "You're wrong because you were born, and so is everyone else, humans are innately bad and have to work hard and follow these rules to prove they deserve to live" has been a devastating piece of programming. I believe our world would look really different if that doctrine hadn't been either pounded or gently inserted into many, many human beings for many hundreds of years.
My "nicer intellectual" church still had the same crappy apologetics about Job, and the story of Isaac taking Esau's inheritance was somehow godly, and Abraham being willing to kill Isaac, well that was just wonderful, in some unstated way.
Exactly. One cannot escape the baggage
I was raised “incidentally” secular till age 12, at which point my father refound Jesus and his Catholic upbringing. It was introduced to me, and I leaned hard into just to be closer to my dad. But, after a few years of exposure to both Catholicism and secularity, I found myself drifting off during the priest’s homily; thinking about science, contradictory things. In my early twenties, after educating myself, I just couldn’t lie to myself anymore. I drifted away, free from the bs of all the guilt, shame and things like “confession” and judgement. I think I must credit my early secular years as having established a foundation of normalcy, with helping me get away.
My brother reconverted last year when our dad died, and I fear my nephews are facing what you talk about.
People change their beliefs all the time. It does not change real facts that are testable and reliable.
Well said.
I really liked that ending rant. Really hits on some key points that affect significant numbers of people
Appreciate that. Thanks for being here and watching all the way!
The atheist only converted because he liked the "love" message, not that he believed the Christian god was real. That's not a good reason to adopt a religion. Anyone can promote love, in fact humanism does as well, without the evil sky fairy commanding you, but just because its a good thing.
Aw, he got the fluffy Xtian stuff. Lucky him.
I am much younger than him and I got hellfire and self-loathing, complete with forced confession, the last of which ended with the priest grooming me…I was 16.
Also, the “love” talk made me very suspicious- to this day- of anyone using that kind of language. To this day, I wonder about those who do because that entire range of vocabulary was made cheap, worthless and, worse, a lie by my early experiences.
Talk of love and I will first assume you want to harm me in some way. I then need to get myself out of this headspace, with an effort.
🤢🤮 Sorry for what you went through. May you heal and find peace.🙏❤️
I just wanted to point out there there are a bunch of different kinds of atheists. I was born with no religion but went searching when I was a teenager, because of our society. I didn’t find any good reason to believe in any god. I went to the hellfire and brimstone church and the flowers and love kind. None of them could answer my questions about god to make me even believe a little. Just wanted to point out that I feel for everyone that was raised with religion. I’m happy my parents were scientifically minded
Before I became a Christian I guess I was an atheist, I had no solid beliefs or opinions on god. I was indoctrinated under very emotional circumstance, after the trauma of my father died. It cost me nothing to say “I used to be an atheist” and I was applauded and cheered for it. Eventually it evolved into “I used to be a hardcore atheist.” This was more encouraged and applauded. So, I kinda get really skeptical when someone says they used to be an atheist. It costs nothing to claim that. In fact, I know a lot of people talked up their testimony and exaggerated the amount of drugs and sex they all did. It’s highly encouraged.
That said, I try to always be charitable and give people the benefit of the doubt.
I would argue there is a third kind of atheist: wasn't raised religious, but is well aware of the claims and arguments for and against.
If you only have naive uninformed atheist and people who left the religion who know all about it, you leave a large gap. And I know it isn't meant that way, but some might even think it is insulting towards atheist that grew up non-religious.
For sure i was being too general. Theres a whole spectrum
You nailed it, Brandon.
*Sunday* : sales
*Small group* : baggage, fine print.
Simultaneously being taught that your focus needs to be on desperately rushing to saving and recruiting others instead of processing what just happened to you.
*Prayer meetings, leadership and volunteering* : more pressure, impressing the importance of saving souls and the dark consequences (public gossip and shunning) of being called out and "prayed for" if you f*ck up and embarrass the church.
CW child predators:
I remember also how at my church at one prayer meeting we all prayed for a known church predator in his absence. The pastor simply said "let's pray for [name]. He's ... done something stupid".
Only those in the know could guess -extrapolate what that meant. Although it became very public knowledge at some point, I'm pretty sure it was in the news - because this guy was a high school teacher who had a "relationship" with one of his students. At the time I interpreted"something stupid " to mean contacting his victim again.
This was the first time I heard the church ACKNOWLEDGE his name, which was probably why they were super vague and made no connection with what "stupid" thing he'd done that we were all praying for.
Before we knew this (but after I'd been told in a public youth group there was a paedo in the neighborhood though never made the connection so he wasn't named and I'd never have assumed he went to our church!) I went to him and his daughter for tutoring being in high school myself at the time, and I remember how his secretary would tell him to stop telling his female students they looked beautiful and that he was being gross.
(He did group tutoring and she was right there working in the corner of the open plan while he was teaching us.)
He thought it was hilarious and would play it off and joke in front of her and a class of students "she calls me a dirty old man". He always made her out to be grumpy, called her an abbreviated nickname and would tease her telling her to cheer up.
Now I think about it I wonder if she was actually trying to keep an eye on him and make sure he wasn't showing any students too much attention, because there were lots of places she could have worked in peace and quiet in that building, she didn't have to be working in the same room where teaching was going on. 😞
It's just awful to think this was all going on and the church didn't step up except to whisper coded warnings that didn't help each other, managing to gossip about him and encourage vague speculation in ways that were unhelpful without calling out the ACTUAL behaviour so people could be safe!
Given he was a school teacher I think their obligation was about as clear as it gets!
And it was worse than that actually, because he was a headmaster, he ran, taught at and tutored via his OWN school.
Sorry for the edit, I had more to add
George Orwell related a story of J. P. Morgan, the infamous banker and financier, taking a tour of Italy. While on tour, he encountered an antiques dealer offering an ornate crucifix for sale, at an asking price of $5000. Morgan showed little interest until the dealer revealed the crucifix's secret: pressing a hidden button caused a stiletto to pop out of its base
Orwell remarked he could think of no better metaphor for the Christian religion.
"a bit disingenuous" there you go again being very generous, Brandon. This is not a criticism. I love your approach, so much more engaging and effective than some of the very hostile attacks some atheist use - personal attack, mockery...your approach invites discussion rather than establish a hostile battlefield.
Thanks for that encouragement, Maggie. It’s certainly tempting sometimes to get a tone lol
In a word, refreshing! I’m to the point where I was about to give up on atheistic channels of this nature. Keep going Brandon. Thanks.
@@MindShift-Brandon I could never do what you do... I've been out for 40 years but I *always* get a tone!
yes! same here. While a good smackdown can be entertaining and good for ratings, it can become all about that rather than the very serious issues atheists' channels claim to address. Like the best hosts have said, they were there, once, some of us were there, remember what that was like and don't just mock and belittle. You automatically set the other person up on the defense/retaliate mode and get nowhere. Also, while there are certainly some nasty religious people (like in any group) most are simply deluded, or indoctrinated, or haven't learned how to critically assess their beliefs. :) @@kevinvaters2526
I bet I can go to any 1 random meeting of ANY group, ANY group, and get a good message. That shouldn't convince me the correctness of their whole message or belief.
Agreed
When people say "The bible says..." it is akin to making out that a hydra only has one head.
I started to listen to my old church on line and for a few weeks it was very uplifting then…end times…hurry up make your election sure…you right it’s only a matter of time. Several weeks of good cop but the bad cop is always waiting
Exactly!
I can see the appeal of evangelical churches.
I almost fell into it myself at a point in my life where i felt hopeless. They offer community, support and the services were enjoyable. They encouraged asking questions, development of talent and counseling when issues surfaced. It was not what i expected a church could be. Eventually it was the harmfull fake prophecy and bad biblical beliefs that made me run.
Give bro 30 years in church now and let's see what he thinks after being in it, especially a Pentecostal "baptized in fire and power" type of church.😅 I'm happy that I stepped out. Now that I'm in my 30s
If I go outside and look at the horizon, I see pretty much a flat plain - soooo, the Earth is flat 😎
If I view Earth from a distance of approximately 11,000 km (6800 miles), it’s an oblate spheroid
I recognize that I may not have stated the correct distances, but the point is that a fleeting experience is not enough to make an informed decision. Most religions require prospective members to attend several courses over a period to learn the fundamental tenets of the sect or denomination
I can see that a very positive experience would be a significant influence, but, Let The Buyer Beware; more information is needed
Well said. Thank you
Another sensible logical talk from our friend brandon
Many thanks!
Apologetics are never for non believers. this is for believers who hear about people leaving the church. If they hear of 1 person coming back to the church, or one "atheist" converting then they can believe that anyone leaving the church is just going through a phase. And their religion isn't declining.
If I could only get you not to hold things in...Bahahahahaa! Wonderful. You always give me so much ammunition. And, again, you are NOT babbling, no diatribe. You are thoughtful, well-researched and CLEAR. And, regarding church and attendance and $$- in certain types of showbiz we knew to "play the audience"!
Yep
I vividly remember learning about David vs Goliath at church when i was like 7 or 8, and how is was a feel good story about the underdog winning an unwinnable fight. But in reality, David killed that dude in front of his army, his army proceeded to kill said army, and destroyed their nation 🤣 left out that little detail
"that seems like an odd thing to say, Jesus...that would probably make me homeless or in jail or dead or divorced" i shouldn't be crying laughing at this but i am, idk why this caught me so off guard 😭😭😭 jesus is that judgey friend who's always trying to give you advice that sounds profound at first but makes you go "wait a minute" if you think too hard about it
Yes, I have noticed over the years too that numerous things Jesus said which were 'exaltedly noble' and/or
'loftily judgemental' and/or 'hopelessly mysterious' I concluded later were worthlessly empty or harmfully incorrect. I am coming to see Jesus as he being someone who wants to significantly be loftily unknown and pompously unknowable and without full objective practical beneficial substance to his people, a 'mystery figure' who enjoys 'teasing' and 'hiddenness'. Arrogance personified.
I have always been an atheist. I have honestly looked at religious claims, I’ve read the Bible, Qua-ran and Bhagavad Gita, Ancient Greek, Ancient Egyptian, Scandinavian and Slavic myths.
The only difference I see between ancient myths and modern religions is that modern one’s really want you to believe them (appealing to your feelings, trying to make you stop using skepticism and rational reasoning) while the old myths just tell the story without any extra effort to make you believe.
Anyway as a result no matter how many times I was in church - no matter how much in awe I was of the atmosphere - I didn’t think anything the priests said was true…
Great video! Even if we only take the good of Christianity, there is a fundamental issue that arises. Because "faith is a virtue", it actively promotes the resistance of new information and critical thinking in order to maintain a foothold in someone's mind. Because of this, good natured, well-meaning Christians, will feel justified in behaviors they partake in that bring harm to others, because doing so is necessary to maintain faith. I see a considerable inability to acknowledge personal privileges that exist at the expense of others, because recognizing the patterns that lead to such privileges means bringing their faith into question. It is easier for a Christian to adopt a meritocratic view whereby those who are suffering, are suffering due to a lack of faith or some morale shortcoming, rather than accepting that the suffering may actually be the result of systemic structures, which are enabled by, and put in place by, the very teachings they put so much faith in. This is why Christianity is actually dangerous.
I’m a 15 year old atheist. I started reading the Bible because I felt lost . . . And now I’m more lost.
You have so much life ahead of you and time. Keep learning, reading, digging in, and decide what you believe and why.
I'm 37 and I only finally understood with my eyes wide open what Christianity was all about a few years ago.
How can people who supposedly know the bible not see this god as a total psychopath?
2:11 i dont seem to be able to fit myself in your 2 groups of atheists. My earliest "religious" memory is my dad explaining to my kindergarten self that religions are were useful earlier, trying to explain stuff that we now can explain better. From then on im an atheist and since then i watched many-many videos on the topic, as well as i have a religious wife, i went to the church with her quite some times and left every time strengthened in my non-belief. So im neither a secular, not-caring-about-the-whole-topic agnostic, neither a deconverter.
For sure. I generalized for the sake of the example. But yes theres a large spectrum in between.
I generally dont like capturing christianity too much beacuse of how 'bombastic' or 'clickbaity' his content can be, but I think you did a good rundown on this short. As other commenter said, it is refreshing to see a person disscussing this topic without war like rethoric.
I however must disagree in you characterization on fundamentalism as somewhat of a 'more accurate christianity', beacuse fundamentalist themeselves have to ignore or reinterpret the contents that do not fit their ideolgies and identity politics of what they need the bible to be. Eevryone is negotiating, the issue is wether they are recognizing that or not.
I would like to get int why the whole motto of "for good people to do evil, it takes religion.” and how wrong that phrase is when people actually find studies the examine the effects of religion, but I think your arguments overall reasonable
peace
He listened to a sermon about love. That's nice. Glad it was positive. Read the whole Bible and then tell me if Christianity and God are all about love. Go ahead. Inform yourself and then tell me you came to the conclusion that God is love and Christianity is about love.
Hi Brandon, I’d love to see you react to Kyle - an orthodox christian who used to be an atheist who is fully convinced he’s 100% right and misinterprets atheistic sincerity. He seems to simply rely on logical loops to prove his faith.
whats the channel?
@@MindShift-Brandonjust “Kyle”
Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday are now my favorite days of the week. Good one, thanks!
Thanks so much! Thats awesome to hear.
You are CORRECT! Modern churches avoid Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy like a PLAGUE.
And yes, Sundays are better spent serving our neighbors.
The way a person interprets the bible reveals what type of person they are. I believe that is the same way with all religions and their holy books.
Every time someone has said to me "my church isn't like that" and I've gone - yes it is. It's exactly 'like that.' There are people who are excluded, talked down to, shamed, ostracized, etc. right in that room with them, the thing is they just don't see them. The one time I went to a church I liked (shout-out to my friend Heidi who is an amazing minister and all around awesome human), the congregation disliked her message and got them "someone who knew how ta put the fear of god inta ya!" and trust me when I say she was weird. I didn't walk out early, but I never went back.
Really good video! Philosophy strives to enhance our moral intuition, whereas religion overrides it with a new "objective morality" that's designed to first and foremost, expand the power and reach of the religion.
Well said!
I can't begin to thank you for your videos. It helps my brain to think in a different way, in ways that makes sense. THANK YOU
So glad to help!
Thanks!
Thanks so much, Marilynn.
Totally agree
Atheists that were truly religious who sought and found freedom is the audience you do speak to.
Again totally agree Christians SHOULD BE DIFFERENT IF THIS GOD WAS REAL. Clearly this God (truly understand no God is real) isn’t.
This content is necessary and appreciated and being a lifesaver for our family.
Loving this first 9 months ‘out’ with the quality and clarity and feel so privileged to have found this channel!
Thats beyond kind. Thank you!
@@MindShift-Brandon4 years out (for me.) Every day, my mind is clearer and my knowledge is greater. Faith in no longer my crutch. 😀❤️☮️
Here's the problem with "atheists who became theists": firstly, most "atheists" were never atheists to begin with, they mistook biblical non-compliance with atheism, in other words they always believed, but because they thought they were "sinning" they were atheists, not really understanding what atheism actually is. This happens a lot and the occurrence that an actual atheist becomes faithful are very rare and exceptional. Second, and here's where I have the problem, is that there's a growing trend to misrepresent atheism. More and more theists resort to dishonest and biased methods to paint atheism in as bad a light as they can, pretending to have been atheists (and by default bad people with no morals) to keep the growing apostasy at bay. This lot will resort to the most dangerous deception and bigotry, all to convince those who are still theists to stay in the church and pay your ten percent; otherwise these pastors and priests need to start looking for a real job.
When I was a teenager , it boiled down to the “big six”. Smoking, drinking, cussing, sex, drugs , and rock and roll.
Seems ridiculous now, but , at the time that list was what drove my judgements about others.
I “hated the sin…but loved the sinner”. That was the excuse that justified my being a religious dick. The second was, “Those are gods rules…not mine”. So I took no responsibility for my horrible attitudes. Some crazy sh*t…I know.
I appreciate these honest stream of consciousness videos.
I’d love to hear your delve into purity culture, and the fucked up views on sexuality in the church. The damage that can cause.
Oh its on the agenda!
@@MindShift-BrandonGreat! I can't wait to hear/watch that!🙂
You continue to manifest the mind of a genius in your accuracy and insight in your honest and accurate assessment of the thinking and posits of the Bible. The authors of each and all of the books of the Bible have come up against an overwhelming check in you on their presentation. Truly, and frankly, you have also overcome Christ in Christ's pitch for the basis for Christianity. As Christ is said to have outwitted and defeated Satan, so you (and other present contemporaries) have outwitted and defeated the mind of Christ; this is historic in significance and in consequence.
20:57 I can't wait to watch this video, haha! Good work, Brandon! I wish you luck...
So you know, I've gone to church a number of times recently, mainly to please my sister those times she wanted me to hear her sing in the choir. I even sang at her request in a Xmas service because they didn't have enough male singers. The choir director wasted way too much time going on about his theology and his missionary program. We really needed that time to rehearse! At age 71, none of it has convinced me. Not because the sermons were "bad." Or "good," for that matter. They just weren't convincing. As for the negative "damnation" message, my sister frequently says we're all "bad," a very disappointing thing to believe, much less say.
Sure...A real pretty love bombing message from the preacher and this is how people get reeled in. My eyes are so WIDE OPEN...the second this guy started talking my first thought was
"ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!" I felt really bad for that guy... he's another victim and keep in mind that he doesn't know the evil atrocities in the bible.😮
It's so much better going to The Church Of The Holy Mattress every Sunday morning! Lol 🤣🤣🤣
Great video Brandon!
Thanks ❣️
I highly recommend getting the book Drunk With Wine by Steve Wells... it's about all the killings of god in the bible.
Well put! And thanks so much for
I'm like cool cool you love Jesus. How do you vote? Now it matters to me and mine, it's not just your personal "relationship" anymore.
Does that loving, peaceful religion you follow continue through with love in it votes? Nope, not even close. Quite the opposite in fact.
@@sillymamacita3854 People vote how they vote regardless of religion or not. I know atheist conservatives (plenty here on TH-cam) and I know many liberal Christians and vice versa.
@@mightiestalone9851 you're right, I should have allowed for that and i do agree. My dad is a tremendous conservative atheist and when I was a Christian I was still liberal. However, 85% of conservatives are Christian so..
I agree with what you said about politics of religious people but the truth is, most woke liberals are atheists or Anti-theists who are just as dangerous, ignorant and dishonest as based conservatives. So you really don't see any more reasonable politics coming from atheists than you do from theists.
Until we all start coming together in a more centered understanding of right and wrong this world will continue to be divisive and violent.
I am agnostic and I vote Independent. Both sides have good arguments and a balanced approach is the most objectively reasonable solution.
@@sillymamacita3854 Since there is no god, heaven, hell, judgement, etc. there can not be objective morality. It's all personal or subjective person to person, atheist or religious. Because the bible is so contradictive and interpretive, the Christian can justify feeling any way they choose, politically or morally. And since the atheist's morals come from within, they can do the same. Everyone is different, but human animals are tribal. They pick a side, a team, a religion, a political party. And that's how it is. Because there is no good or evil, and no consequence in an afterlife, being "moral" is just as valid as being "immoral" if that's how a person chooses to live. To truly be an atheist will ultimately lead to nihilism.
Oh man, I have been waiting for this topic! Thank you for covering this!
My pleasure! Glad it was enjoyable
@MindShiftSkeptic Absolutely! You were quick to notice how easy it is to fall into the "Not a true Scottsman" fallacy, and you handled that awesome dude!
Once again another awesome video thank you for all the content you provide and your videos
My pleasure, thank you!
Ahhhh!!!! Starbucks Christianity has me as a pnw former Christian 😂😂😂😂
its all too true for some!
Thank you for these. Your ramblings are more helpful than the sermons I hear every Sunday. You’re making me think more which Christians don’t think as much to be honest. I don’t actually believe as much as my parent’s belief. Every day I hear about god this or god that. But maybe think about yourselves for once??? Christians are weird bro. Sometimes Christians talk about the really brutal and nasty verses of the Bible but only in passing and I hate it. They completely gloss over it. 🤷♂️
I am glad to help shine a light on all this! Thanks for being here.
Tour de force of epic proportions! Best 'sermon' I've ever heard, from the Socrates of secularism 👍
This is one of the best comments i have ever gotten!
excellent topic, and you did a great job exploring the topic and you were very thorough in your explanations and I happen to agree with everything you said the whole video..
Appreciate that. Many thanks!