The idea of this redesign regarding a thermowax actuator gives me a giggle or two. Way back in the day (when they just invented the lawn mower), I remember pulling out the choke, pulling to start, pushing in the choke, then mowing all day :)
Yeah I don't get it. On my power washer I have the same Honda GCV160 engine. THAT one has an old school choke. The one for my mower doesn't. Since it's common for this part to fail (so I've read) seems dumb to not just have them all with the old choke style
The idea of this redesign regarding a combustion engine give me a giggle or two. Way back in the day (when they just invented the buggy) I remember just feeding my horse hay and then just riding all day :)
Very helpful video, thanks. I was having a problem starting the engine, always had to prime the engine with a shot of aerosol carb cleaner before pull starting. So I knew the choke was not working properly. Had no knowledge of this thermowax choke actuator. A note for others who might be having problems with this type of choke system... This little gizmo has some type of adhesive which holds the actuator in the engine block hole, that's why it takes a little effort to remove the actuator. When you grab the actuator with your pliers, grab the outer part of it, not the shiny pin in the center. The pin in my actuator was in the "choke open" position, like totally extended from actuator body. I sprayed the pin heavily with WD-40 and pushed the pin back into the actuator body afterwards. The pin does not slide easily back into the "choke closed" position. I re-installed the actuator and the engine started first pull. The choke has performed perfectly since. Thanks for the video.
Mine doesn't start at all but i can't tell if it's because of the auto-choke. Whenever i pull the cord it just makes a super weak plub-plub-plub like a 5 year old tugged on the cord. I cleaned the carb and put in a new spark plug.
I have the slightly newer 2020 HRN216 GCV170 Honda mower with a surging problem. Only 1 year old. Replacing the Thermo Wax Assembly (Honda 16620-Z8D-305) fixed the problem. This procedure was very helpful. My model mower has long studs and nuts instead of long bolts which makes disassembly easier since you can remove parts in layers. Thanks for the helpful tip. Was really frustrated with this expensive Honda mower having idle problems. All good now 👍🏼
You're welcome! We are always happy to help. If you would like to give us a review on Google, we would much appreciate it: g.page/r/CcVUrahZNozMEBM/review We hope that you have a great day!
Thanks for posting this. I had to replace the back air filter housing because one of the clips that hold the filter cover broke, and didn't realize the long bolts held the carburetor & choke also. After everything kind of fell out, I could not tell that the choke went between the housing & carburetor. I downloaded the service manual from Honda which was totally useless. Watching this video showed the orientation and I had everything back together & running in 5 minutes! Thank again!
@1:15 in the video: "Use small Channel-Lock pliers to help pull the old choke actuator out of the engine. This may require some effort." That's an understatement, or at least was on my Honda. I have a bunch of Channel-Lock and needle-nose pliers in various sizes. All my regular pliers were too big to actually get a drip on the actuator in that very tight space. With my smaller needle-nose pliers, I could get a grip on the end but couldn't remove the actuator as I pulled. I went to my local Lowe's, and for under $20 got Model 192001 Irwin Vise-Grip 13.25-in Bent Compound Long Reach Pliers that easily extracted it on the first try. Note there are many other Irwin Vise-Grip pliers that will not work as well. You want Model 192001.
I'm pretty sure that I've seen a service bulletin and recall describing the actuators being too short. I ordered two of those, new gaskets and that should get me going.
Great tip on the Irwin Vise-Grip model 192001 tool to remove the Thermowax actuator. Works like a charm. I had tried everything up to and including Gregorian chants to get mine out without success. Thank God I ran upon your comment. It didn't fly out but that tool gave me the grip I needed to get the proper muscle on it. Many thanks again for that crucial tip. If you don't replace that actuator, you just did half of the needed job in 90% of the cases. Cheers !!
Any tips on knowing when this needs to be done? My mower had to have this replaced last year, and it is giving me some troubles. I'd like to learn how to trouble shoot the actuator myself so I don't have to goto the dealer everytime.
The problem with the thermowax actuator, is its location. The airbox covers your view of site. The only way to test one, is to pull it out and put heat on it. I submerge mine it water, to see if it opens and closes. Honda uses a factory gaskit sealer when installed, its a real PITA to pull out if you have to check one. I suggest seeing if you can look behind the airbox cover from the left side. You should be able to see the choke housing assembly with the plunger in it. When the engine starts to heat up you should see it move. Its opening the butterfly for the choke. These machines at start up run like crap till they finally worm up. If your machine runs ruff and then levels out, its normal. The choke is just opening from the closed position. Normal cost on the actuator is 13 bucks, may very from State to State. I hope this helps.
One way to tell when it needs to be done is if your lawnmower has trouble starting after it's warm, I would cut the front yard and shut it off to move to the backyard and then it would not start until it cooled again. PITA. When you replace it, should start pretty easily most of the time hot or cold.
I bought a OEM replacement actuator from Honda. I removed the old actuator and installed the new actuator and it performed the same. It starter surging after 1 minute. I pulled the pin out of the old actuator and reinstalled the old actuator and the mower started on the first pull after letting it cool down for 30 minutes. It ran for perfectly for several minutes. Any recommendations on what might happen if I don’t install the pin in the actuator? Thanks It’s been a month since I removed the pin from the thermowax actuator. I’ve cut my lawn multiple times. My mower starts on 1 pull and it never idles rough. Pulling the pin has worked on my mower. For the people looking for the correct part, Amazon has it.
Careful. The correct carb depends on your exact Honda model and in some cases even the serial number. You can get a replacement carb for a GCV160 engine that will not look the same or operate the automatic choke as your original carb did.
I have the opposite problem. My hrx217 is difficult to start but once it runs it starts first pull everytime I shut it down? I changed the spark plug and it was good for a coue weeks and now it doing it again?? Any idea?
Could be several things but a carburetor that needs cleaning or replacement is probably the most common cause of this, especially if the engine also idles with rough surging up and down after it starts. There are little tiny ports in the carb that gum up especially if you aren't consistently getting all the fuel out or using fuel stabilizer over the winter, but even if you do, over time, they can gum up and cause this.
Actually you're better off using non-ethanol fuel if you can find it, not to cure this issue but to prevent it in the future once you fix it. Some gas stations sell non-ethanol at one pump. Using regular gas, 10% ethanol, especially fuel that's been sitting around for a month or more, can cause tiny carb ports and jets to eventually gum up even using fuel stabilizer.
No it's not right. The thermowax needle should barely protrude when the engine is cold and be out farther when the engine is warm. If you can't push the needle in easily and have it spring back when warm and stay in when cold, the actuator should be replaced.
I'm having a problem with a Honda mower. When I start it it starts fine. But as the choke is siding over and reaches the other side it turns off and this is in a matter of seconds. Please help I dont know what to do with this thing anymore
Your part numbers are for square edges. Here is the part number for the round thermo wax: 16620-Z1L-841 Thermo Wax Assembly. Square or circle depends on your auto-choke part.
I won't buy another Honda lawnmower until they rebuild the automatic choke mechanism. It's garbage and everyone I know or have seen online with this type of mower has had this problem.
I have the opposite problem, the choke on my Honda engine will not open and it runs very rich for 3-4 minutes until the wax pellet heats up and pushes it open. Is there supposed to be some kind of vacuum operated choke break on this thing?
Nope. The engine just relies on heat to heat up the thermowax which moves the inner pin which opens the choke butterfly. I just installed the latest revision thermowax (16620-Z8D-842) and the mower starts now but it runs rich for about 1.5 minutes until the engine heats the thermowax. There was also a revised auto choke assembly that has a black ring around the plunger.
@@steadyeddie7453 I figured out what it was. The air filter base was warped and when the screws were tightened down the base rubbed against the butterfly linkage holding it closed. I put a second gasket behind it and that gave it enough clearance to allow the choke to operate properly. I bet this happens a lot.
@@mjg263 Always go with the simple things first, right. Glad you got it running, and thanks for the response. Something for me to keep in mind for future repairs.
@@steadyeddie7453 Right, simple stuff first lol! Next time it happens try backing the screws off just a little tiny bit, you’ll probably hear a “click” and it will start running normally. It’s because they use the same 2 screws that hold all of the carb parts to the engine to also hold the plastic filter housing on. When the screws get over-torqued the gaskets get squished, the cover warps and the clearance for the linkage gets too tight. They should have used separate screws to hold the plastic filter box in place (like Briggs Quantum) then it wouldn’t get cranked too tight and interfere with the linkage. Doubling up on the air box gaskets will usually put it right. Dumb design.
@@mjg263 I agree it's a bad design. The engineers were out to lunch when they designed this area of the engine. I think they should have used threaded studs to hold it all together. Slide all the pieces over studs and then secure with 2 nuts. Oh, and on some models there is a third bolt inside the air filter housing. Perhaps it was added to help prevent the twisting and warping of the plastic.
First honda should install studs to mount the carburetor and hold it in place with nuts! the engineers really blew it with the thermowax actuator.what a bunch of nonsense.A pull or lever choke works flawlessly.A thermowax actuator REALLY.Definitely destin to fail on every one produced,it really doesn't have to be this complicated.
The idea of this redesign regarding a thermowax actuator gives me a giggle or two. Way back in the day (when they just invented the lawn mower), I remember pulling out the choke, pulling to start, pushing in the choke, then mowing all day :)
Yeah I don't get it. On my power washer I have the same Honda GCV160 engine. THAT one has an old school choke. The one for my mower doesn't. Since it's common for this part to fail (so I've read) seems dumb to not just have them all with the old choke style
The idea of this redesign regarding a combustion engine give me a giggle or two. Way back in the day (when they just invented the buggy) I remember just feeding my horse hay and then just riding all day :)
Very helpful video, thanks. I was having a problem starting the engine, always had to prime the engine with a shot of aerosol carb cleaner before pull starting. So I knew the choke was not working properly. Had no knowledge of this thermowax choke actuator. A note for others who might be having problems with this type of choke system... This little gizmo has some type of adhesive which holds the actuator in the engine block hole, that's why it takes a little effort to remove the actuator. When you grab the actuator with your pliers, grab the outer part of it, not the shiny pin in the center. The pin in my actuator was in the "choke open" position, like totally extended from actuator body. I sprayed the pin heavily with WD-40 and pushed the pin back into the actuator body afterwards. The pin does not slide easily back into the "choke closed" position. I re-installed the actuator and the engine started first pull. The choke has performed perfectly since.
Thanks for the video.
Mine doesn't start at all but i can't tell if it's because of the auto-choke. Whenever i pull the cord it just makes a super weak plub-plub-plub like a 5 year old tugged on the cord. I cleaned the carb and put in a new spark plug.
do you use an adhesive to hold the thermowax when you replace it ?
I have the slightly newer 2020 HRN216 GCV170 Honda mower with a surging problem. Only 1 year old. Replacing the Thermo Wax Assembly (Honda 16620-Z8D-305) fixed the problem. This procedure was very helpful. My model mower has long studs and nuts instead of long bolts which makes disassembly easier since you can remove parts in layers. Thanks for the helpful tip. Was really frustrated with this expensive Honda mower having idle problems. All good now 👍🏼
Have watched several videos on this. Props for the detail on re-assembly and the pieces.
You're welcome!
We are always happy to help. If you would like to give us a review on Google, we would much appreciate it: g.page/r/CcVUrahZNozMEBM/review
We hope that you have a great day!
Thanks for posting this. I had to replace the back air filter housing because one of the clips that hold the filter cover broke, and didn't realize the long bolts held the carburetor & choke also. After everything kind of fell out, I could not tell that the choke went between the housing & carburetor. I downloaded the service manual from Honda which was totally useless. Watching this video showed the orientation and I had everything back together & running in 5 minutes!
Thank again!
so true no real info same thing for me. finally a simple fix
@1:15 in the video: "Use small Channel-Lock pliers to help pull the old choke actuator out of the engine. This may require some effort."
That's an understatement, or at least was on my Honda. I have a bunch of Channel-Lock and needle-nose pliers in various sizes. All my regular pliers were too big to actually get a drip on the actuator in that very tight space. With my smaller needle-nose pliers, I could get a grip on the end but couldn't remove the actuator as I pulled. I went to my local Lowe's, and for under $20 got Model 192001 Irwin Vise-Grip 13.25-in Bent Compound Long Reach Pliers that easily extracted it on the first try. Note there are many other Irwin Vise-Grip pliers that will not work as well. You want Model 192001.
Appreciate the tip. Encountered the same difficulty and was looking online for a suitable pair when I saw your comment. Just ordered a pair.
Same here. For the love of God. I couldn't get mine out. Going to give this a try. Thanks
I'm pretty sure that I've seen a service bulletin and recall describing the actuators being too short. I ordered two of those, new gaskets and that should get me going.
@@Booneboarder LOL FTLoG!
Great tip on the Irwin Vise-Grip model 192001 tool to remove the Thermowax actuator. Works like a charm. I had tried everything up to and including Gregorian chants to get mine out without success. Thank God I ran upon your comment. It didn't fly out but that tool gave me the grip I needed to get the proper muscle on it. Many thanks again for that crucial tip. If you don't replace that actuator, you just did half of the needed job in 90% of the cases. Cheers !!
Thanks so much for making this video, made replacement of my thermowax actuator pretty easy.
What part should I order to attach a manual choke and shitcan the auto choke?
Honda recommends using Hondabond HT sealant to improve heat transfer.
It's such a small amount they should include a tiny tube of it with the thermowax. Fortunately its just RTV and I keep that around.
The Honda bond or RTVis used primarily to keep the thermowax unit intact and from falling out its engine port.
Great Video ,easy to follow and results were awesome
I think I finally found a solution for my HRR2169VKA. It revs up and down and then dies 60 seconds later, not starting again until cooled off.
My exact symptoms as well!
Does the HRR216VXA have a thermo wax acturator?
Any tips on knowing when this needs to be done? My mower had to have this replaced last year, and it is giving me some troubles. I'd like to learn how to trouble shoot the actuator myself so I don't have to goto the dealer everytime.
The problem with the thermowax actuator, is its location. The airbox covers your view of site. The only way to test one, is to pull it out and put heat on it. I submerge mine it water, to see if it opens and closes. Honda uses a factory gaskit sealer when installed, its a real PITA to pull out if you have to check one. I suggest seeing if you can look behind the airbox cover from the left side. You should be able to see the choke housing assembly with the plunger in it. When the engine starts to heat up you should see it move. Its opening the butterfly for the choke. These machines at start up run like crap till they finally worm up. If your machine runs ruff and then levels out, its normal. The choke is just opening from the closed position. Normal cost on the actuator is 13 bucks, may very from State to State. I hope this helps.
One way to tell when it needs to be done is if your lawnmower has trouble starting after it's warm, I would cut the front yard and shut it off to move to the backyard and then it would not start until it cooled again. PITA. When you replace it, should start pretty easily most of the time hot or cold.
I bought a OEM replacement actuator from Honda. I removed the old actuator and installed the new actuator and it performed the same. It starter surging after 1 minute. I pulled the pin out of the old actuator and reinstalled the old actuator and the mower started on the first pull after letting it cool down for 30 minutes. It ran for perfectly for several minutes. Any recommendations on what might happen if I don’t install the pin in the actuator? Thanks
It’s been a month since I removed the pin from the thermowax actuator. I’ve cut my lawn multiple times. My mower starts on 1 pull and it never idles rough. Pulling the pin has worked on my mower. For the people looking for the correct part, Amazon has it.
Hi, what pin are you referring to?
Thanks, you make my day. Very helpful.
I tried to get old thermowax out but in vain , what should I do next? please advise. thank.
Whats the part number for a new carburetor?
Genuine OEM Honda 16100-Z8B-901 CARBURETOR (BB76A A)
Careful. The correct carb depends on your exact Honda model and in some cases even the serial number. You can get a replacement carb for a GCV160 engine that will not look the same or operate the automatic choke as your original carb did.
Has honda made any changes or recalls this is what's stopping me from buying through hrx217
I have the opposite problem. My hrx217 is difficult to start but once it runs it starts first pull everytime I shut it down? I changed the spark plug and it was good for a coue weeks and now it doing it again?? Any idea?
Could be several things but a carburetor that needs cleaning or replacement is probably the most common cause of this, especially if the engine also idles with rough surging up and down after it starts. There are little tiny ports in the carb that gum up especially if you aren't consistently getting all the fuel out or using fuel stabilizer over the winter, but even if you do, over time, they can gum up and cause this.
Actually you're better off using non-ethanol fuel if you can find it, not to cure this issue but to prevent it in the future once you fix it. Some gas stations sell non-ethanol at one pump. Using regular gas, 10% ethanol, especially fuel that's been sitting around for a month or more, can cause tiny carb ports and jets to eventually gum up even using fuel stabilizer.
I would like to see you actually start the mower after the repair.
Thanks appreciate that !
On my mower, the thermowax needle is pushed out when cold and seems stiff to move. That's not right is it?
Did you ever figure this out?
No it's not right. The thermowax needle should barely protrude when the engine is cold and be out farther when the engine is warm. If you can't push the needle in easily and have it spring back when warm and stay in when cold, the actuator should be replaced.
what part number for the HRR 2169VKA thermowax choke actuator? Can I buy this from you? on the actual actuator is number 1320014.
my number is different are they are the same replacements?
I'm having a problem with a Honda mower. When I start it it starts fine. But as the choke is siding over and reaches the other side it turns off and this is in a matter of seconds. Please help I dont know what to do with this thing anymore
Dude... which is the newer part? 16620-Z8D-305 or 16620-Z8D-842?
Your part numbers are for square edges. Here is the part number for the round thermo wax: 16620-Z1L-841 Thermo Wax Assembly. Square or circle depends on your auto-choke part.
I won't buy another Honda lawnmower until they rebuild the automatic choke mechanism. It's garbage and everyone I know or have seen online with this type of mower has had this problem.
Well you got your wish, sort of. As of 2024, Honda no longer makes gas mowers.
I have the opposite problem, the choke on my Honda engine will not open and it runs very rich for 3-4 minutes until the wax pellet heats up and pushes it open. Is there supposed to be some kind of vacuum operated choke break on this thing?
Nope. The engine just relies on heat to heat up the thermowax which moves the inner pin which opens the choke butterfly. I just installed the latest revision thermowax (16620-Z8D-842) and the mower starts now but it runs rich for about 1.5 minutes until the engine heats the thermowax. There was also a revised auto choke assembly that has a black ring around the plunger.
@@steadyeddie7453 I figured out what it was. The air filter base was warped and when the screws were tightened down the base rubbed against the butterfly linkage holding it closed. I put a second gasket behind it and that gave it enough clearance to allow the choke to operate properly. I bet this happens a lot.
@@mjg263 Always go with the simple things first, right. Glad you got it running, and thanks for the response. Something for me to keep in mind for future repairs.
@@steadyeddie7453 Right, simple stuff first lol! Next time it happens try backing the screws off just a little tiny bit, you’ll probably hear a “click” and it will start running normally. It’s because they use the same 2 screws that hold all of the carb parts to the engine to also hold the plastic filter housing on. When the screws get over-torqued the gaskets get squished, the cover warps and the clearance for the linkage gets too tight. They should have used separate screws to hold the plastic filter box in place (like Briggs Quantum) then it wouldn’t get cranked too tight and interfere with the linkage. Doubling up on the air box gaskets will usually put it right. Dumb design.
@@mjg263 I agree it's a bad design. The engineers were out to lunch when they designed this area of the engine. I think they should have used threaded studs to hold it all together. Slide all the pieces over studs and then secure with 2 nuts. Oh, and on some models there is a third bolt inside the air filter housing. Perhaps it was added to help prevent the twisting and warping of the plastic.
First honda should install studs to mount the carburetor and hold it in place with nuts! the engineers really blew it with the thermowax actuator.what a bunch of nonsense.A pull or lever choke works flawlessly.A thermowax actuator REALLY.Definitely destin to fail on every one produced,it really doesn't have to be this complicated.
😂 Ibid! Somebody was thinking the Honda dealerships need more service revenue!
FWIW Briggs has a better setup with a thermal spring.
Come on Honda fix this problem on you engines
Some jerk put rvt on the thermowax so it won’t come out!
Thats alot of nonsense to get to carb or thermowax . Should go on piece by piece instead of trying to balance all of that.