I wonder if the 30 vs 60fps weirdness comes from the game being built off of 4U which ran at 60 and they didn't think of how it would impact the game to cap gen/genU at 30
@@ethanwhatzittooya8649 Gen changed a lot of visual stuff, like adding light reflections and changing a lot of effects. It might have been changed for optimization purposes so the game runs better, but I don't think that really excuses it since it impacts the gameplay too much.
This explains so much of the “feeling” difference coming off 4u, I feel like genU also drops inputs where 4u never felt like that. Also explains why heavy bow felt so much stronger than rapid. I miss heavy bow.
@@NibbleSnarph GU doesn't drop inputs other than HAs after attacks with the multi-inputs, which is not related to the framerate at all and is just a bad input buffer problem. It makes sense why a 40-60 fps running game on 3DS would feel better than a 30 fps game played on TV with wireless controller though. Heavy bow also has nice chunky hit feedback. Rapid power shots that lose ticks feel and are pretty weak by comparison. Harbingers just can't stop winning. Definitely one of the coolest bows we ever got.
Very insightful! I've read about this bug a few times but never quite understood it. Really appreciate all the testing you guys did, great work and awesome video!
t's amazing how much FPS can impact damage in MonHun games. It's seems this wasn't just a Rise issue when it was compared Switch 30 FPS vs PC 60 FPS, and it likely affects older games too. Kudos for the awesome video and a massive shout-out to all the hunters for their help and hard work!
Oh wow. I remember discuss this bug with you a while back on discord :) I remember that my theory was that there was a buffer queue for the ticks that simply drops any damage that cannot be computed in time. I guess I was close enough. Thanks for the video!
This is a fascinating video. I was aware of the issue with rapid fire bow, but I didn't think about how it would also affect bomb stacking and bowgun ammo. This is very valuable information. Much appreciation for you deep diving into this! I imagine it would also affect multiple instances of something like sakura slash due to how many hits it throws out.
@@TheCaptainPaxo Thanks. I suspect it could affect some blademaster things as well, but I have not been able to confirm that. It should be noted that blademasters also tend to have many active damage frames per attack and hits don't just vanish like bombs and ammo, so even if you hit multiple times with multiple hits, they most likely connect (if slightly later and possibly with a different zone if you're unlucky). I couldn't figure out a way to test this but I have not come across a clear case of this happening yet.
Great vid as always Levobertus! I had no idea that this was a thing, but your deep dive into the topic is super comprehensive and thorough. The things you do in this community are amazing
@@Rankaquion it seems to affect more than just the hit detection. I can't say that yet without having tested everything. Apparently it makes pierce ticks worse, which is imo a reason not to use it.
I still miss gen when Alatreon Bow was actually a viable playstyle... Now it's just heavy this heavy that.. rip pierce bow. You got to exist in meta for a single half gen
@@levobertus Alatreon was an actually viable Element Pierce bow in gen, which isn't something normally seen in gen 4. 4u has like no good pierce bows period to my memory...
@ the Alatreon bow is still usable and optimal against Lao in GU. I could imagine it'll still do well against Akantor, but there's just not much of a need for it since harbingers is doing just fine and is probably faster, similar to how Gen had the Teo bow. My issue is this game really hates rapid and spread bows. They were really afraid of making a broken element bow or something because there are literally no element rapid/scatter bows that drop less than 40 raw without giving up power phials. It's depressing how shit the stats on almost all of them are
@@KenBladehart pierce bow isn't good in GU. It only wins against like 3 monsters. While it sucks that rapid loses damage, it's still the second best choice most of the time. Valor bow is also really strong to begin with. The best set is Scylla Webdart with WE, CB, Ch2, Rapid Up and TSU.
@@manikaditha6308 I played God Eater, I built to survive (imagine fighting 4 Rajang at the same time, in the arena. God Eater taught me how to survive that kind of bullshit)
@@KenBladehart yes. Pierce bow only outdamages rapid against Lao, Plesioth and Ahtal-ka as far as I'm aware. It's not even up for debate really because raw bows are king and the average rapid 5 MV ties the pierce MVs even with the bug factored in. The best bows even have the same raw and almost the same affinity. The only reasons pierce is preferred on the mentioned monsters is because you can't hit Ahtal-ka's cocoon or Plesioth's belly reliably with rapid and because Lao is so weak to dragon that the Alatreon bow is better because of the element.
Wait so a 60FPS Cheat alters the games physics? I thought it just 2x'd the games emulation speed then "reverted" to normal. Also do you happen to have a link for the HP Display Cheat? I'd love to test some of my builds haha
@@genesis0x1 the physics of the moves don't seem to be tied to the framerate. In fact there's even a working cheat on switch. I can't really say I recommend them because they alter a few things. Apparently it also messes with the pierce tick distance, which lowers dps in some cases, but I really can't say much about it. It does seem to more or less fix the rapid arrows though. I also have no means to use those cheats. I only have a modded 3DS to test Gen/XX on it, that's why I needed to ask other people for the test footage instead of making it myself. That's also why I can't tell you where to find any cheats for GU.
Could this affect Valor Charge Blade's Elemental Discharge III ? (On Switch) That attack seems to have 3 swings but only 2 out of those 3 apply phial explosions...
Could this bug also impact dual blades ? This research is great but mostly only explores the consequences to bowguns and bombs, not potentially affected blademaster weapons
@@french_comet I couldn't figure out how to test this, but it might affect it. I'm particularly worried about 4p DB runs, but I have no way to test this because I can't record with hp screen in multiplayer. Someone would have to use the cheat online, record it and analyze it frame by frame.
Sigh, why do japanese developers keep tying stuff to FPS in modern systems of all things. I can't even run MHW with higher framerates because of this kind of garbo.
I know right a lot of people claim that there are 2 armour sets for each monster in the game and they also say that those armours are designed for "ranged users" but idk wtf are they talking about there's no such thing as a ranged weapon in monster hunter... Hmm maybe they talk about the kinsect from the insect glaive... But like that is silly why would the devs add hundreds of armour sets just for one weapon gimmick
I wonder if the 30 vs 60fps weirdness comes from the game being built off of 4U which ran at 60 and they didn't think of how it would impact the game to cap gen/genU at 30
@@ethanwhatzittooya8649 Gen changed a lot of visual stuff, like adding light reflections and changing a lot of effects. It might have been changed for optimization purposes so the game runs better, but I don't think that really excuses it since it impacts the gameplay too much.
This explains so much of the “feeling” difference coming off 4u, I feel like genU also drops inputs where 4u never felt like that.
Also explains why heavy bow felt so much stronger than rapid. I miss heavy bow.
@@NibbleSnarph GU doesn't drop inputs other than HAs after attacks with the multi-inputs, which is not related to the framerate at all and is just a bad input buffer problem.
It makes sense why a 40-60 fps running game on 3DS would feel better than a 30 fps game played on TV with wireless controller though.
Heavy bow also has nice chunky hit feedback. Rapid power shots that lose ticks feel and are pretty weak by comparison. Harbingers just can't stop winning. Definitely one of the coolest bows we ever got.
Very insightful! I've read about this bug a few times but never quite understood it. Really appreciate all the testing you guys did, great work and awesome video!
t's amazing how much FPS can impact damage in MonHun games. It's seems this wasn't just a Rise issue when it was compared Switch 30 FPS vs PC 60 FPS, and it likely affects older games too.
Kudos for the awesome video and a massive shout-out to all the hunters for their help and hard work!
@@MH_Toffymaru I haven't seen this in older games yet. But to be fair, I also don't know them as well as GU
I did a 4 player Bow's arc shot runs in Portable 3rd. This didnt happened
Oh wow. I remember discuss this bug with you a while back on discord :)
I remember that my theory was that there was a buffer queue for the ticks that simply drops any damage that cannot be computed in time. I guess I was close enough.
Thanks for the video!
Dude, thanks for clarifying this bug with actual testing
This is a fascinating video. I was aware of the issue with rapid fire bow, but I didn't think about how it would also affect bomb stacking and bowgun ammo. This is very valuable information. Much appreciation for you deep diving into this!
I imagine it would also affect multiple instances of something like sakura slash due to how many hits it throws out.
@@TheCaptainPaxo Thanks. I suspect it could affect some blademaster things as well, but I have not been able to confirm that. It should be noted that blademasters also tend to have many active damage frames per attack and hits don't just vanish like bombs and ammo, so even if you hit multiple times with multiple hits, they most likely connect (if slightly later and possibly with a different zone if you're unlucky). I couldn't figure out a way to test this but I have not come across a clear case of this happening yet.
Great vid as always Levobertus! I had no idea that this was a thing, but your deep dive into the topic is super comprehensive and thorough. The things you do in this community are amazing
This is super well done and very eye-opening! Great work and v comprehensive analysis Levo
This was interesting, you got yourself a new sub.
All of your slicing ticks vanishing in the Ludroth example is actually infuriating.
definitely one of the clips of all time. The other runs failed because demjin didn't get it
:hogblown:
So we all should play with the 60fps mod
@@Rankaquion it seems to affect more than just the hit detection. I can't say that yet without having tested everything. Apparently it makes pierce ticks worse, which is imo a reason not to use it.
I still miss gen when Alatreon Bow was actually a viable playstyle...
Now it's just heavy this heavy that..
rip pierce bow. You got to exist in meta for a single half gen
@@DESMal sadly they killed the mvs and didn't give us good enough bows to make up for it
@@levobertus Alatreon was an actually viable Element Pierce bow in gen, which isn't something normally seen in gen 4. 4u has like no good pierce bows period to my memory...
@ the Alatreon bow is still usable and optimal against Lao in GU. I could imagine it'll still do well against Akantor, but there's just not much of a need for it since harbingers is doing just fine and is probably faster, similar to how Gen had the Teo bow. My issue is this game really hates rapid and spread bows. They were really afraid of making a broken element bow or something because there are literally no element rapid/scatter bows that drop less than 40 raw without giving up power phials. It's depressing how shit the stats on almost all of them are
I was looking for bow builds when I saw that reddit post. Kinda ruined my plan, but hey, I find out that pierce bow is also really good
@@KenBladehart pierce bow isn't good in GU. It only wins against like 3 monsters. While it sucks that rapid loses damage, it's still the second best choice most of the time. Valor bow is also really strong to begin with.
The best set is Scylla Webdart with WE, CB, Ch2, Rapid Up and TSU.
Pierce bow pale compared to rapid and heavy unfortunately, its okay but not impressive considering how fragile you are even with valor sheath.
@@levobertus Uhh, are we even playing the same game? I get really good result with pierce bow
@@manikaditha6308 I played God Eater, I built to survive
(imagine fighting 4 Rajang at the same time, in the arena. God Eater taught me how to survive that kind of bullshit)
@@KenBladehart yes. Pierce bow only outdamages rapid against Lao, Plesioth and Ahtal-ka as far as I'm aware. It's not even up for debate really because raw bows are king and the average rapid 5 MV ties the pierce MVs even with the bug factored in. The best bows even have the same raw and almost the same affinity. The only reasons pierce is preferred on the mentioned monsters is because you can't hit Ahtal-ka's cocoon or Plesioth's belly reliably with rapid and because Lao is so weak to dragon that the Alatreon bow is better because of the element.
Wait so a 60FPS Cheat alters the games physics? I thought it just 2x'd the games emulation speed then "reverted" to normal.
Also do you happen to have a link for the HP Display Cheat? I'd love to test some of my builds haha
@@genesis0x1 the physics of the moves don't seem to be tied to the framerate. In fact there's even a working cheat on switch. I can't really say I recommend them because they alter a few things. Apparently it also messes with the pierce tick distance, which lowers dps in some cases, but I really can't say much about it. It does seem to more or less fix the rapid arrows though. I also have no means to use those cheats. I only have a modded 3DS to test Gen/XX on it, that's why I needed to ask other people for the test footage instead of making it myself. That's also why I can't tell you where to find any cheats for GU.
Could this affect Valor Charge Blade's Elemental Discharge III ? (On Switch)
That attack seems to have 3 swings but only 2 out of those 3 apply phial explosions...
I think that's just how the weapon is tbh
Could this bug also impact dual blades ? This research is great but mostly only explores the consequences to bowguns and bombs, not potentially affected blademaster weapons
@@french_comet I couldn't figure out how to test this, but it might affect it. I'm particularly worried about 4p DB runs, but I have no way to test this because I can't record with hp screen in multiplayer. Someone would have to use the cheat online, record it and analyze it frame by frame.
@@levobertus it probably effects normal type gunlance too, since burst fire with load up and dragon's breath hits 12 times
@@kpnk4195 I never thought about that but that could be true. I'm gonna have to test this at some point
does this bug as a fix?
Sigh, why do japanese developers keep tying stuff to FPS in modern systems of all things. I can't even run MHW with higher framerates because of this kind of garbo.
This bug doesn't really exist bcs ranged Weapons are not real Weapons.
I know right a lot of people claim that there are 2 armour sets for each monster in the game and they also say that those armours are designed for "ranged users" but idk wtf are they talking about there's no such thing as a ranged weapon in monster hunter... Hmm maybe they talk about the kinsect from the insect glaive... But like that is silly why would the devs add hundreds of armour sets just for one weapon gimmick