For me, 357 sig is one of the best optimized carry rounds for personal defense. I use it in my P226. So many say it's a dead cartridge, but I think it will have its resurgence, much like 10mm. So many police trade in 40sw on the market, and people will naturally gravitate to wanting faster projectiles. If it had a branding name change to "9mm Super," all of the 9mm fan bois will be all over it. For me, 125gr is the sweet spot for it.
You're 100% correct! .357 SIG was designed around 125gr bullets for a reason! And honestly when it comes to self defense 124-125gr is the ticket when it comes to any handgun cartridge that starts with .35_
Funny thing is the Underwood 125gr 357 Sig round has a velocity equal to the Underwood 1520 fps 115gr round tested here. Also unusual is the fact the Hornady 357 Sig 147gr XTP offering has a velocity around 30 to 40 fps FASTER than the Underwood 147gr XTP and the Hornady 147gr round was designed by Hornady for use in the 357 Sig. This of course means the Hornady 147gr XTP doesn't fragment at speed, gets good expansion and 18 inches of penetration in organic gel. The Hornady 147gr 357 Sig XTP bullet is only loaded into Hornady ammo and nothing else. So in other words stick with the 125gr rounds and the Hornady 147gr XTP round if not with the Underwood XD and XP ammo variety.
I've said in the comments of one of his previous tests, I ignored it for a long time because I was already shooting 9x23 Winchester which is capable of higher velocity than the .357 SIG. But then I shot one! And it's right in the sweet spot of velocity that I load most of my 9x23 to anyway with readily available ammunition. So now I have 2🤣 . I still think in a full sized tool the 9x23 is a superior cartridge. The cases are indestructible and can handle rifle like pressure giving it a pretty big edge in velocity. But the .357 is 85-90% of it and fits in 9mm sized guns. And in many cases as Tools pointed out it's a barrel swap and you're in business!
If you have some spare change… Stealth Arms announced at SHOT show that they will offer a Platypus in 357 Sig. That would be a sweet addition to the collection
Love my Glock 32 at moment I'm carrying the Speer Gold dot 125 gr ... clocking in a little over 1400 FPS.. otherwise I'm carrying the G23 with 165 HST...great test as always..Brian ..
Although I prefer the 125, both of the rounds you tested (115 and 147) would be devastating effective for personal defense. I’d chose whatever was the most accurate in my pistol and shot to the correct point of aim.
I agree with you that the 124gr .357 SIG from your previous test is preferable to either of these two. Though this 115gr still did pretty good for its weight hitting at that velocity and reaching 15.5 inches. If the 124gr ran out and this was available, I'd grab it.
The 115gr helps to maintain terminal velocity in sub 4" barrels. The fragspansion of the nosler helps to amplify the early energy dump. If you are going light-for-caliber the 65 & 90 grain xtreme defenders really shine with the hyper-velocity potential of 357SIG. Otherwise 125gr rules them all whether JHP or FNFMJ.
115 grain at 1500 is the clear winner for the intended use of this ammo. It is the safer of the two for self defense with much reduced over penetration
Yes , .357 Sig & 124/125 is the intended and optimal combination. The 115 certainly did what it did . But only marginal difference from a 9mm +P+ at 200 fps less . A 147 projectile at those speeds does present interest possibilities for hunting/ woods gun niche , without massive overpeneration . The obvious comparison would be to 158 JHP .357 Revolver . Not sure if XTP is the best projectile for that . Maybe test out some 147 Gold Dot .
That .357 sig is certainly stronger than a 9mm +p+ it also has more energy by 100 ft lb for only 2 dollars a box more I’ll get the .357 sig especially considering with 9mm you have to go to +p+ pressures to even have a conversation about matching up to .357 sig not to mention there are more powerful offerings in .357 sig
@@JJ_SDWR If I have to pick one, it would be 10mm. Not even a close call for me. new guns and ammo are constantly being released for 10mm. The same can't be said for .357 sig and in my opinion, it never will see anything new.
I 100% get where youre coming from with your dislike of fragmentation. But at the same time, im ok with it as long as the bullet consistently penetrates to an acceptable depth. I feel the secondary wounds creates by fragments traveling off course are a plus rather than a minus. It gives you the possibility of hitting something vital you may have otherwise missed. Afterall the whole point of a bullet travelling through flesh is to cause a rapid loss of blood and drop in blood pressure of to strike something in the central nervou system.
Another good test a video. Again, this just verifies why I use 125gr Gold Dots in my G31 357Sig. I still have about 3 boxes of the older Underwood 125gr Gold Dot loads, and those loads get a true 1,550 fps in my G31. When I handload for the 357Sig, I push the same bullet at a slightly milder 1,500fps. Still, that is no slouch and is very similar to my 4" 357 Mag with the same bullet.
The Nosler is just a bad bullet. Not all the time, and that is the problem. It is inconsistent. It's definitely not Underwood's fault that Nosler makes a bad round. They should just not load it anymore.
I'm a firm believer in 357sig. I have an H&K VP40 converted to 357sig and have many other handgun calibers. I edc UW 124gr asp hollow points and they are devastating. It's like shooting a 357mag that holds 14 rounds. By far my favorite handgun caliber for edc. Never out gunned! 124-125gr is the definate sweet spot.
I use underwood 124gr. 357sig. It's a nosler projectile that performs very well. 115gr is a Lil light and breaks up to much for me. And the 147gr is a Lil heavy and lacks the speed that makes the .357sig shine. So as you said .357sig is best at 124gr 125gr. Thanks for the test, as always it was awesome. Hope you have a wonderful day.
I tested the UW 124gr. Nosler ASP and the UW 124gr. Horady XTP. The XTP tends to get too much penetration for my liking. The Noslers are just about perfect, 100% energy dump at 600fpe and a surgeons nightmare. They carry more fps at 50 yds than a 9mm at muzzle and being a bottleneck round are as close as you can get for 100% reliability out of a semi auto hand gun. Win, Win, Win! Can't go wrong with the .357sig!!!
Lots of people leaving 75 to 100lbs of energy on the table running hot 357sig out of a short 4" barrel.. performance charts show BIG energy gains on hot 357sig specifically, in-between 4" and 5" and 6" up to 7" barrels ... Averaging 75lbs to 50lbs of energy per barrel inch. You'd be impressed by a 5.5" barrel or 6" or 6.5"... Also consider hydrostatic shock kicks in theoretically around 2200fps, so over 5.5" or 6" or 6.5" to be sure, a hot and light 357sig changes the ballistics game close to 2300fps... And puts it into the rifle damage capability realm of 5.7 40gr and short barreld .223 50gr / 556 70gr ect.. Underwood 65 grain as tested 3.5" = 579lbs @ 2004fps 4 " = 626lbs @ 2083fps 4.5" = 684lbs @ 2177fps 5.5" = 721lbs @ 2240fps 6" = 743lbs @ 2269fps 9" = 898lbs @ 2494fps 16" = 1051lbs @2699fps Underwood 125gr tested 3.5" = 560lbs @ 1421fps 4 " = 611lbs @ 1484fps 4.5" = 660lbs @ 1482fps 5.5" = 713lbs @ 1575fps 6" = 736lbs @ 1629fps 9" = 849lbs @ 1750fps 16". = 1003lbs @1902fps For camping-hiking trips I run a 6.2" comp barrel in a G23 with a recover tactical 20/20 brace, mounted sight and 2nd mag holder/grip.. total under 4lbs with 40rds on board.. size of a shoe.. best backpack camping / hiking / survival gun. Light recoil and consistent @ 100 to 200 yrds in the brace chassis with sight.... Easy to keep the 9mm and 40cal barrels in small pouch as backup.... Love my edc P365 but it can't do it all like, the G23-357sig long barrel in a lightweight small chassis brace. Half the size and weight fully loaded 40rds compared to the lightest foldable AR.. The 357 sigs short bottle neck design does not pressurize hot ammo well enough in short barrels to take advantage of its advantages.. Likely the reason it fell out of favor when the market moved to compact guns... Plus too much recoil for compact. And also it's likely that after the FBI stopped demanding the round other gun manufacturers would prefer not to develop guns with a round developed and named by Sig Sauer with 357 "SIG" being advertised on the side of their barrels.... Thus why they keep trying to make things work with 10mm and and 9mm for PCC.. when the truth is 357sig is the perfect size that can double duty for short and long barrels, for short distance and long distance, depending on the specific ammo choice.. also because it has the flattest trajectory and distance, and the fact it's bottle necked reduces chambering / jams, just like a rifle cartridge. And is light weight for over portability loaded. Much more versatile than 9mm and 10mm. And add the design advantages of easily interchangeable barrels for other calibers 9mm and 40cal ect..
I personally love the lighter extreme defenders (external "holowpoints" ) that do like 2000-2200fps. I'd love to see a company come out with a .357sig carbine or pdw with an 8-9inch barrel slinging those super hot rounds down range. I've seen some glock pdw setups with braces that get close, though.
To have enough energy to force the petals closed after they opened up is crazy… it looks like both 147’s closed back up… one more than the other…and fragmentation isn’t good for hunting rounds, but for personal defense as long as you get penetration, exploding and fragmenting is just a bonus.
I’d take the 115, but like the 125s even better in this cartridge. 357 or 10mm is the way to go. Either would do for SD or Hunting if the right load was chosen.
Couldn't agree more with ya on this one. I have always been a 124 guy for 9mm so makes a lot of sense to stick in the middle with 357 Sig but make no mistake 115 or 147 at over 500 ft lb is no joke. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
B, this was another great test. I'm with you on the 125grn as a carry option, as it seems to be the sweet spot. I think from just alone of the 357SIG testing, you've probably sold more people on it, and gave more options when carrying. This caliber is no joke!
The 147 grain has a higher ballistic coefficient meaning at longer distances it can exceed the energy of the 115 eventually but both great rounds with in short distances, rural carry 147 and urban carry 115
I always thought that would be really interesting to see, too, a decibel comparison of all the different rounds out of differing barrel lengths, but supposedly it's really hard to measure effectively.
Nice test. The .357 SIG was to duplicate .357 mag ballistics, so SIG may have chosen the 124 gr to match the .357 125 gr. Which also is a great bullet.
I’m not surprised the 115 fragged I’m surprised it didn’t completely disintegrate. Underwoods 185gr XTP in 45Super @1450fps (more like 1500 in a 5”) blew up like a grenade when I bought it. The XTP is a real Goldilocks bullet, too slow it doesn’t expand and too fast it goes to pieces. But just right it performs great.
I carried 357S in a Gen2 31 for 20 years. It doesn't even particularly like 124gr 9mm bullets, tho there's barely a speck of difference between them. No difference in the circumference of the projectile. They're both .355" But something is different about the projectiles designed for 357S
I'm with you 357Sig loves a 125gr they can break 600 ft lbs. The other 2 are only ok performers however the 125gr Gold dot loaded by Underwood is amasing
I thought that that 147 would do better than it did. The 115 is just too light. I'm not a fan of the Sig or 9mm. As my wife says ''get big or get out. To the Sig fans. I understand why you like them. It's a good round. Thanks Tool Guy. Another good video.
Speaking of fragmentation… I’ve got some law enforcement 357sig fragmentation rounds. Got them in .308 Winchester as well. I guess they’re designed to scramble the brain of a bad guy without the risk of a penetrating round hitting a bystander. Have you tested fragmentation rounds? Always wondered what they would do to the jelly.
I figured the 147s would expand nicely moving 1200+ fps but poor design I reckon. I’d say 125gn is the way to go with this. I think it’s the magic weight for 357, 38 and 124 in 9mm. Great test just the same good sir. 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Don’t own a 357 Sig but do agree the 125’s seem to be the sweet spot. Not a huge fan of XTP’s for 2 legged critters. Other than the 380 which performed nicely there’s better designs out there. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!
you are hearing the sonic boom coming off the projectile as it travels down range since it is considerably over the speed of sound. usually rifles do this but that 115 grain is moving on out.
Thanks Tools & Targets! Another tremendous presentation! Very impressive rounds, but I agree that the 357 Sig was designed around the 124-125 grain bullet.
I'm guessing these are projectiles designed for the 9mm and the 125 from the other test was specifically designed for the 357 Sig and it's higher velocities. 115 seems light for a 357 Sig, but I also think 155 is kind of light for 10mm. But those were some interesting results!
Great info. I run the 147 gr XTP at 1225 from my 16" carbines so this gives me a good idea how they will perform. The 147 gr XTP has a BC of 2.0 so it holds its energy out a bit. The 125 gr bullets in the 357 SIG were designed for self defense and that is what i would use in them.
I think you're right about the projectile weight. I've always thought that 140 is a great weight for the .357 magnum, so 125 gr. should be a peach in this one. Projectile design sure has improved since the 80s. Thank you, Sir, for all your helpful videos. Whatever folks are shooting, I just hope they're stocking up now.
I usually hunt with 125g JHP. Also startred using Lehigh Extreme Defender/Hunter bullets that come in at 120g. They are wicked fast and devastating in game. .357 is great for hunting . It's not ideal for carry due to recoil, noise, and muzzle flash. Then again if you hit center mass, you only need one good shot. FBI data shows it's the best for one shot "knock down power".
@ToolsandTargets after two years of looking, yesterday I just found and bought a Smith & Wesson 327 Performance Center with the 2 inch barrel and 8 shot n-frame revolver. That should take care of the bad guys and my remaining hearing.....LOL.
I have a 357 sig-conversion barrel for my Glock model 35. That gives me a 5.3-inch barrel. The 124 grain Hornady bullet is the one I favor. However, the Hornady 147 grain is an easy bullet to load due to its semi-boat tail base. It's a great bullet weight as a backup for wild hogs that are wounded.
Nice test I'm a 10mm guy but .357sig is my 2nd choice aside from home defence and edc on range day with friends everyone brings random items wood blocks ,metal tanks etc to test different rounds and the fnfmj .357sig are just wicked hole punchers keeping up with 10mm even sometimes exceeding 10mm I carry hollow points but spare mags have either fnfmj or solid copper ex pen cuz if you have to reload you may need barrier penetration just my opinion I would love to see barrier test maybe wood block before jelly block just to see difference between hp and fmj
I actually run Corbon 115 - I believe they are XTPs. The point of 357 Sig is velocity and the noise is sonic crack. Higher velocity yields higher energy. Per your own calculation, that was very near 600 ft-lbs. Agreed Nosler ASP is not ideal at those velocities. Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, and bonded JHPs are better. The 357 Sig, even Corbon or Underwood, are easier to handle than 10mm. Sure, 10mm fans have no issues, but for those who find full-power 10mm unpleasant, they are better off with 357 Sig. Massive energy in a controllable round is why I prefer 357 Sig.
Me too I have 10mm full power ammo and follow up shots is alot slower due to recoil. I don't experience this with hot 357sig rounds. For me its 357sig on my night stand
Love your 357 Sig tests. agreed on the little frag grenade, but without barrier that thing will be a real threat stopper. Btw People are somewhat complaining about the sound signature when I shoot my handloads too - bunch of …. The 147 is disappointing, a JHP not expanding at 1250 is rare. Bad choice by Underwood
@@ToolsandTargets yeah, real conversation starter at a public range 😁. I think you tested the 65 grain Underwoods too, correct? Do you remember which one is louder?
@@ToolsandTargets ha, would be a worthy addition to you your 357 Sig long list. Something going 2200 ft/s out of a handgun is always good fun. That’s the projectile I take into the woods, as I have my doubts re JHP performance on wild boar 😁
The last time I ordered from Underwood the only weight they had was the 115gr. I’ve got five boxes of it. I’ve yet to shoot any but this video makes me think I need to. I don’t know about an indoor range. I’ll have people hating on me! My 357 Sig barrel works perfectly in my G23. Thanks for the video sir.
Another good test and commentary Tools. This is all interesting to me never really seen a lot of good testing on the .357SIG. Nonetheless I think I agree with you very good caliber but the 10mm is my way to go. But the SIG gets a good honorable mention. Thanks for sharing be safe! 🇺🇸⭐️⭐️🇺🇸
Where I live I can go to most of the gun stores and purchase hotter 357sig ammo than 10mm I have to travel about 60 miles to Mackeys in Jamestown and they carry Underwood Buffalobore etc. For all calibers right on the shelf.
You should do a comparison when you find acouple winner like you did with 10mm at the end run them against each other and declare a winner, im hoping for the fed HST 125 sig....
Been loving the 357sig tests. Have always been interested in having something chambered in it. Personally i would like to find an old trade m&p in 357sig, but few and far between these days.
"It's got the energy, sure." Let's talk about energy. The 115-grain load averaged 1257 feet per second at 50 yards, giving us an average of 403 energy foot pounds at that distance. The 147-grain load was moving 1096 feet per second at 50 yards, on average, generating an average of 392 energy foot pounds. Nothing to sneeze at from either of them. I'll stick with my 125-grain .357 Sig ammo, though.
I loved my P226 in .40 S&W, which came with a .357 Sig barrel too ,as a package, from Sig Sauer. Man I wish I would have kept that pistol. I think you would have got the correct velocities, if you would have used a Sig pistol, or a pistol with standard rifling. Very good video...
I thought the 357 sig was a little more powerful than that I thought it was good for defeating soft body armor it wasn't much more than a 9mm to justify the price difference for the ammo. I will keep my 9mm and 10mm for EDC. Good video I was considering getting a 357 sig but I have a 357 magnum so I don't think I will be adding one to the collection.
That lone wolf barrel reduced the Velocity by about 50. Both those rounds exceeds the box velocity easily out of a stock G31 barrel. Great test though as usual. Could it be your becoming a 357 sig fan 😊
This is true!!! Glocks factory oem barrels are SUPERIOR for high velocity calibers...smoother mirror like bores...very low drag and tight for better pressure behind bullets..you'd have to look through a 357sig factory glock barrel and compare how "smooth" & polished the bore is to really understand
Love your videos! I've never seen a round open up, turn around....& close back up 😳 😂😂😂 I prefer the 115! It does what it's supposed to....in my Opinion 😁
Another good test, Brian! Ok, I don't even own a 357 Sig but I would definitely carry one! The trick is to use the right bullet, in the case of the Sig, a Lehigh Xtreme Defender or a Gold Dot as a close second. 90 gr for the Lehigh and 125 for Gold Dot. Still, the 115 has close to the same penetration. If that were a Gold Dot there would be practically no frags in the wound track. In the case of the 147, I say again, they simply cannot be trusted to fully expand at 9mm or Sig velocities! I've seen more failures with the 147 gr bullet than in any othe caliber. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. As you said, not my cup of tea! The type and weight of bullet makes a huge difference so anyone shooting a 9mm or 357 Sig should choose very, very carefully what they carry! Cheers, jc
Cartridge pressure is a strange thing. You'd think that a much lighter bullet could be driven a lot harder at the same pressure level but it doesn't often come close to what you'd think you'll get. The 357Sig was designed for ~125 grainers because they offer the best terminal performance for that caliber size and velocity. When the recipe works this good don't change it.
Great test I’m glad to see the 257sig tested with different weights being as it was designed around 124-25 that’s all I have ever run through mine mostly because that’s all I can find locally Having said all that I think I will stick with 125 unless maybe using it as a dangerous game sidearm but in that situation I’m using 44mag revolver until I can get a 460swmag or 454 casul that type of situation you just want it to work
Ooooohhhh.... Yay. Did you happen to also order some of their ultra light 60 to 90 grain solid copper 357 sig? I run the 9mm 90gr +P+ Xtreme defender and they are super loud like a rifle just like the 115gr 357sig. Doing over 1500fps as well. Its NASTY
Is 9mm equal to or superior to 357 Sig? Let’s think about that for ourselves for just a moment, shall we? I get it that some people pick a side and feel the need to defend their choice, but not to the extent of regurgitating pure nonsense that they themselves were misinformed on. Some ammo manufacturers actually have loads that even surpasses the ballistics of traditional 357 magnum performance. Underwood's 357 SIG Gold Dot for example. Also because it’s a bottleneck cartridge it has the added benefit of feeding more reliably than other pistol rounds. It’s flat shooting and will punch through auto glass like it was butter. It’s literally a 9mm projectile “except” because it’s 225-300 fps faster it penetrates most barriers as well as 10mm yet doesn’t over penetrate flesh, which is welcomed to aid in avoiding collateral damage. It has a flatter trajectory that in turn makes it more accurate and potent at distance. Though the penetration is no greater than 9mm in flesh, the cavity damage is much more devastating making it more likely to stop a threat with less shots. 357 Sig Compact and Subcompact firearms actually have more energy than an equivalent sized barrel length 10mm. Even out of as much as a 4” barrel, Underwood 125gr 357 Sig has the energy that’s equal to or greater than most 10mm loads with the exception of a few specialty loads. Basically 10mm energy only surpasses 357 Sig out of longer full size barrel lengths. Underwood has a 357 Sig 65gr Xtreme Penetrator round that exceeds 2250+ fps out of just a 6” barrel. I don’t know of any other semiautomatic pistol caliber that has rounds capable of such velocities from a handgun. It goes straight through a 3A panel even. At those velocities normally temporary cavities tear. One of the most attractive benefits of owning a 357 Sig is the ability to convert the firearm to 40 S&W & 9mm with nothing more than a simple barrel swap. You also normally can do a 357 Sig or 9mm conversion if you own a 40 S&W firearm as well. That means you can train on whatever platform you’re most comfortable with and whatever ammo is the most affordable, and no it isn’t always 9mm. That means that you are less hindered by ammo shortages… and when you’re done training simply swap out the barrel and ammo back to 357SIG and you’re all set. Sadly on a native 9mm firearm you don’t have any option to do a conversion. I never understood what’s not to like about 357 SIG… well other than ammunition availability and cost being the only negatives I guess, but it is the better round. Keep in mind that when you compare 9mm +P or +P+ to try to achieve 357 Sig performance, 357 Sig is actually cheaper than 9mm. When I searched +P+ to get as close to 357 Sig performance as possible, it was more expensive than a standard 357 Sig JHP round. 9mm +P+ is still only 1300 fps in 124 grain. That’s 50 fps slower than the lowest end 125 grain Sig round at 1350 fps and we’re comparing +P+ 9mm ammo here. Yet the bare minimum 357 Sig performance isn’t even achievable and this is usually attempted in a platform that isn’t even recommended for +P+ or even +P at times. I say it’s best to swap to a 9mm conversion barrel when training and back to 357 Sig right before you’re all done to finish up with 357 to cut that expense down. In most cases the recoil of any superior round can be overcome with training. I actually have little to no recoil on one of my setups. It’s compensated. You’ll find that comps actually provide greater compensation with 357 Sig compared to 9mm because of the higher pressures. I do understand that some people are recoil sensitive and are more comfortable with 9mm or other lower recoiling rounds. I understand some just prefer the thought of higher capacity. I totally understand your decisions. But let’s not bash any superior round because you prematurely decided on a specific one. Naturally shot placement, especially with pistol calibers is key… but under pressure understandably, your shot placement could be lacking. With that in mind the welcomed advantages of 357 Sig could easily make the difference between life and death, shot placement aside. Keep in mind that mag dumping 9mm into a target may not be justifiable. Back in the old days when the revolver was supreme, you were trained to take two shots and then assess the effectiveness. Essentially those first two shots may be justifiable, but the next 15 shots may not be. Again with that in mind, a more powerful caliber will require less shots to stop a threat, while decreasing the chances of any wrongdoing. There’s nothing wrong with 9mm it’s awesome, but let’s be clear… it isn’t equal to 357 Sig and the few extra rounds it’s capable of holding in a magazine over 357 Sig definitely doesn’t make it the superior choice. In time I expect 357 Sig to make the comeback that 10mm has made in recent years… For myself these 357 Sig advantages make 9mm less desirable. How about for you? 10mm vs 357 Sig, both properly loaded out of a compact barrel are equal in power. Out of the same full size length barrel lightly loaded (weak) 357 Sig is more powerful than lightly loaded (weak) 10mm. Properly loaded 10mm out of a full size is more powerful than properly loaded 357 Sig but at that point 10mm is typically more expensive than 357 Sig. But for urban carry 357 Sig is highly enjoyable to carry. I love 10mm, especially in 155gr and under but the firearms need to be larger to outshine 357 Sig. For woods with larger predators I would absolutely chose 10mm over 357 Sig but truthfully if I was going into said woods, would 10mm be enough? I would have to step in up to 44 Mag. 10mm is in a position that has little use for me even with it being the awesome round that it is. Unless I was carrying a 4.5-5” full size in urban areas but that would be overkill with what 357 Sig achieves.
I still would love to own a 357 sig… I’m considering EDCing 10mm but 357 may be another option. Idk they ammo cost is similar and 10mm is the best millimeter
“…but 9mm technology has advanced…” Yeah, it’s called .357 Sig
For me, 357 sig is one of the best optimized carry rounds for personal defense. I use it in my P226. So many say it's a dead cartridge, but I think it will have its resurgence, much like 10mm. So many police trade in 40sw on the market, and people will naturally gravitate to wanting faster projectiles. If it had a branding name change to "9mm Super," all of the 9mm fan bois will be all over it. For me, 125gr is the sweet spot for it.
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9mm Super is a thing, it's .38 Super that uses cut down .223 rifle brass.
125 is it’s sweet spot it devastating
@@Kinetic.44that I'm aware, just stating a branding term to make it more marketable.
9mm magnum
You're 100% correct! .357 SIG was designed around 125gr bullets for a reason! And honestly when it comes to self defense 124-125gr is the ticket when it comes to any handgun cartridge that starts with .35_
Agreed
I've got some 147 grainers as well as 115 that are like a 🦁 lion trying to escape the barrel.
Funny thing is the Underwood 125gr 357 Sig round has a velocity equal to the Underwood 1520 fps 115gr round tested here. Also unusual is the fact the Hornady 357 Sig 147gr XTP offering has a velocity around 30 to 40 fps FASTER than the Underwood 147gr XTP and the Hornady 147gr round was designed by Hornady for use in the 357 Sig. This of course means the Hornady 147gr XTP doesn't fragment at speed, gets good expansion and 18 inches of penetration in organic gel. The Hornady 147gr 357 Sig XTP bullet is only loaded into Hornady ammo and nothing else. So in other words stick with the 125gr rounds and the Hornady 147gr XTP round if not with the Underwood XD and XP ammo variety.
I agree and carry Federal 124gr +P HST’s!
You forget the most compelling reason to carry 357 sig
It saves you so much money on flash bangs.
Nice. I've been enjoying the 357 SIG content
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You're beginning to convince me to buy something chambered in .357sig, Tools! 😂
Worth it to have one if you have something to drop a barrel in or grab a cheap LEO Glock trade.😎👍
I've said in the comments of one of his previous tests, I ignored it for a long time because I was already shooting 9x23 Winchester which is capable of higher velocity than the .357 SIG. But then I shot one! And it's right in the sweet spot of velocity that I load most of my 9x23 to anyway with readily available ammunition. So now I have 2🤣 . I still think in a full sized tool the 9x23 is a superior cartridge. The cases are indestructible and can handle rifle like pressure giving it a pretty big edge in velocity. But the .357 is 85-90% of it and fits in 9mm sized guns. And in many cases as Tools pointed out it's a barrel swap and you're in business!
@@johncoleman2495 Interesting, I didn't know anything about 9x23. Just researched it. Impressive little round as well.
If you have some spare change… Stealth Arms announced at SHOT show that they will offer a Platypus in 357 Sig. That would be a sweet addition to the collection
@@nikos6220 Glock mags in a 1911 is criminal and punishable by shooting squad🤣
The 115 Is a surgeon's nightmare, THX Brian 👍🇺🇸
It would make em deaf before knockin em down too.😆
You mean the medical examiner.
@@rogerwood5228 ^IF it hits the right place? Yeah the coroner or ME is gonna be horrified.
🤣@@ToolsandTargets
👍@@rogerwood5228
Love my Glock 32 at moment I'm carrying the Speer Gold dot 125 gr ... clocking in a little over 1400 FPS.. otherwise I'm carrying the G23 with 165 HST...great test as always..Brian ..
Thank you sir.😎👊
Although I prefer the 125, both of the rounds you tested (115 and 147) would be devastating effective for personal defense.
I’d chose whatever was the most accurate in my pistol and shot to the correct point of aim.
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I agree with you that the 124gr .357 SIG from your previous test is preferable to either of these two. Though this 115gr still did pretty good for its weight hitting at that velocity and reaching 15.5 inches. If the 124gr ran out and this was available, I'd grab it.
I love your 10mil, .357 Sig and 40 S&W tests the most
Appreciate ya!😎👊
I’m a fan of 124 grain in 9mm-ish rounds bigger than 380 acp. The sweet spot. You are making it hard for me to avoid getting a 357 barrel for the G27!
It's interesting to have for these tests.😎👍
That 115 was pretty sick.
The 115gr helps to maintain terminal velocity in sub 4" barrels. The fragspansion of the nosler helps to amplify the early energy dump. If you are going light-for-caliber the 65 & 90 grain xtreme defenders really shine with the hyper-velocity potential of 357SIG. Otherwise 125gr rules them all whether JHP or FNFMJ.
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115 grain at 1500 is the clear winner for the intended use of this ammo. It is the safer of the two for self defense with much reduced over penetration
Loving the 357 SIG content!
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It would be cool to see 357 sig critical duty tested. The 40 impressed me
Yes , .357 Sig & 124/125 is the intended and optimal combination.
The 115 certainly did what it did . But only marginal difference from a 9mm +P+ at 200 fps less .
A 147 projectile at those speeds does present interest possibilities for hunting/ woods gun niche , without massive overpeneration . The obvious comparison would be to 158 JHP .357 Revolver .
Not sure if XTP is the best projectile for that . Maybe test out some 147 Gold Dot .
That .357 sig is certainly stronger than a 9mm +p+ it also has more energy by 100 ft lb for only 2 dollars a box more I’ll get the .357 sig especially considering with 9mm you have to go to +p+ pressures to even have a conversation about matching up to .357 sig not to mention there are more powerful offerings in .357 sig
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200 FPS difference is not marginal in any stretch of the imagination
@@dariodicarlo8745I have seen a LOT of 9mm +p and +p+ videos and none of them do what the Sig did in this video. Not even close
Man, I don't have a 357sig gun but that stuff is smoking hot
Yeah, the 115 was rollin.
@@ToolsandTargets you think it's worth investing in a 10mm pistol or a 357sig pistol if you could only stock ammo for one higher-power semi-auto?
@@JJ_SDWRYou should get one sir. If you have a 40 S&W all you need is a conversion barrel.
@@JJ_SDWR If I have to pick one, it would be 10mm. Not even a close call for me. new guns and ammo are constantly being released for 10mm. The same can't be said for .357 sig and in my opinion, it never will see anything new.
I 100% get where youre coming from with your dislike of fragmentation. But at the same time, im ok with it as long as the bullet consistently penetrates to an acceptable depth. I feel the secondary wounds creates by fragments traveling off course are a plus rather than a minus. It gives you the possibility of hitting something vital you may have otherwise missed. Afterall the whole point of a bullet travelling through flesh is to cause a rapid loss of blood and drop in blood pressure of to strike something in the central nervou system.
It's a 40,000 psi cartridge, it's going to be loud and crisp on the BANG. Favorite weights for myself are 125-147gr. 115's tend to explode.
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Look up the .356 TSW, it's like a 9x23, but faster than a 357 SIG
Buffalo bore and double tap make some great stuff in the 125 grain
Another good test a video. Again, this just verifies why I use 125gr Gold Dots in my G31 357Sig. I still have about 3 boxes of the older Underwood 125gr Gold Dot loads, and those loads get a true 1,550 fps in my G31. When I handload for the 357Sig, I push the same bullet at a slightly milder 1,500fps. Still, that is no slouch and is very similar to my 4" 357 Mag with the same bullet.
The Nosler is just a bad bullet. Not all the time, and that is the problem. It is inconsistent. It's definitely not Underwood's fault that Nosler makes a bad round. They should just not load it anymore.
I'm a firm believer in 357sig. I have an H&K VP40 converted to 357sig and have many other handgun calibers. I edc UW 124gr asp hollow points and they are devastating. It's like shooting a 357mag that holds 14 rounds. By far my favorite handgun caliber for edc. Never out gunned! 124-125gr is the definate sweet spot.
Great test brian!! You're right the 357 sig was made to have similar ballistics to 357 mag in the 125 grain loading.
Underwood needs to crank up the velocity on the 147 to around 1350 out of a duty size pistola.
I use underwood 124gr. 357sig. It's a nosler projectile that performs very well. 115gr is a Lil light and breaks up to much for me. And the 147gr is a Lil heavy and lacks the speed that makes the .357sig shine. So as you said .357sig is best at 124gr 125gr. Thanks for the test, as always it was awesome. Hope you have a wonderful day.
That's a good one.😎👍
❤ the 357 sig. Underwood had a 124 grain that is wicked in my 31. Great review 🙏🏿🇺🇸
I tested the UW 124gr. Nosler ASP and the UW 124gr. Horady XTP. The XTP tends to get too much penetration for my liking. The Noslers are just about perfect, 100% energy dump at 600fpe and a surgeons nightmare. They carry more fps at 50 yds than a 9mm at muzzle and being a bottleneck round are as close as you can get for 100% reliability out of a semi auto hand gun. Win, Win, Win! Can't go wrong with the .357sig!!!
I can't find anything bad to say about Underwood ammo. The stuff works exactly as they say it does.
Lots of people leaving 75 to 100lbs of energy on the table running hot 357sig out of a short 4" barrel.. performance charts show BIG energy gains on hot 357sig specifically, in-between 4" and 5" and 6" up to 7" barrels ... Averaging 75lbs to 50lbs of energy per barrel inch. You'd be impressed by a 5.5" barrel or 6" or 6.5"... Also consider hydrostatic shock kicks in theoretically around 2200fps, so over 5.5" or 6" or 6.5" to be sure, a hot and light 357sig changes the ballistics game close to 2300fps... And puts it into the rifle damage capability realm of 5.7 40gr and short barreld .223 50gr / 556 70gr ect..
Underwood 65 grain as tested
3.5" = 579lbs @ 2004fps
4 " = 626lbs @ 2083fps
4.5" = 684lbs @ 2177fps
5.5" = 721lbs @ 2240fps
6" = 743lbs @ 2269fps
9" = 898lbs @ 2494fps
16" = 1051lbs @2699fps
Underwood 125gr tested
3.5" = 560lbs @ 1421fps
4 " = 611lbs @ 1484fps
4.5" = 660lbs @ 1482fps
5.5" = 713lbs @ 1575fps
6" = 736lbs @ 1629fps
9" = 849lbs @ 1750fps
16". = 1003lbs @1902fps
For camping-hiking trips I run a 6.2" comp barrel in a G23 with a recover tactical 20/20 brace, mounted sight and 2nd mag holder/grip.. total under 4lbs with 40rds on board.. size of a shoe.. best backpack camping / hiking / survival gun. Light recoil and consistent @ 100 to 200 yrds in the brace chassis with sight.... Easy to keep the 9mm and 40cal barrels in small pouch as backup.... Love my edc P365 but it can't do it all like, the G23-357sig long barrel in a lightweight small chassis brace. Half the size and weight fully loaded 40rds compared to the lightest foldable AR..
The 357 sigs short bottle neck design does not pressurize hot ammo well enough in short barrels to take advantage of its advantages.. Likely the reason it fell out of favor when the market moved to compact guns... Plus too much recoil for compact. And also it's likely that after the FBI stopped demanding the round other gun manufacturers would prefer not to develop guns with a round developed and named by Sig Sauer with 357 "SIG" being advertised on the side of their barrels.... Thus why they keep trying to make things work with 10mm and and 9mm for PCC.. when the truth is 357sig is the perfect size that can double duty for short and long barrels, for short distance and long distance, depending on the specific ammo choice.. also because it has the flattest trajectory and distance, and the fact it's bottle necked reduces chambering / jams, just like a rifle cartridge. And is light weight for over portability loaded. Much more versatile than 9mm and 10mm. And add the design advantages of easily interchangeable barrels for other calibers 9mm and 40cal ect..
I personally love the lighter extreme defenders (external "holowpoints" ) that do like 2000-2200fps. I'd love to see a company come out with a .357sig carbine or pdw with an 8-9inch barrel slinging those super hot rounds down range. I've seen some glock pdw setups with braces that get close, though.
TNW makes a "pistol" version of their .357 carbine with a 10.25" barrel.
Excellent analysis as usual.
Thank you sir.😎👊
To have enough energy to force the petals closed after they opened up is crazy… it looks like both 147’s closed back up… one more than the other…and fragmentation isn’t good for hunting rounds, but for personal defense as long as you get penetration, exploding and fragmenting is just a bonus.
I’d take the 115, but like the 125s even better in this cartridge. 357 or 10mm is the way to go. Either would do for SD or Hunting if the right load was chosen.
Couldn't agree more with ya on this one. I have always been a 124 guy for 9mm so makes a lot of sense to stick in the middle with 357 Sig but make no mistake 115 or 147 at over 500 ft lb is no joke. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Absolutely. They laid the smack down.😎👊
Yup,I run 124+p in all my 9s
100% agree. Couldn't add to your opinion. Nothing terrible. I wouldn't choose either over 125. Thank you.
Appreciate you!😎👊
B, this was another great test. I'm with you on the 125grn as a carry option, as it seems to be the sweet spot. I think from just alone of the 357SIG testing, you've probably sold more people on it, and gave more options when carrying. This caliber is no joke!
Thank you sir.😎👊
The 147 grain has a higher ballistic coefficient meaning at longer distances it can exceed the energy of the 115 eventually but both great rounds with in short distances, rural carry 147 and urban carry 115
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It might be fun to invest in some type noise level meter. Many thanks for your fun, informative channel.
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I always thought that would be really interesting to see, too, a decibel comparison of all the different rounds out of differing barrel lengths, but supposedly it's really hard to measure effectively.
One of my favorite rounds, I need to make an Underwood order the 147 would make a good woods round.
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Nice test. The .357 SIG was to duplicate .357 mag ballistics, so SIG may have chosen the 124 gr to match the .357 125 gr. Which also is a great bullet.
I'm with you, I only carry 125 gr. normally Federal HST, but right now Winchester ranger T's.
I’m not surprised the 115 fragged I’m surprised it didn’t completely disintegrate. Underwoods 185gr XTP in 45Super @1450fps (more like 1500 in a 5”) blew up like a grenade when I bought it. The XTP is a real Goldilocks bullet, too slow it doesn’t expand and too fast it goes to pieces. But just right it performs great.
Yep
I would lean towards the 115
I carried 357S in a Gen2 31 for 20 years.
It doesn't even particularly like 124gr 9mm bullets, tho there's barely a speck of difference between them. No difference in the circumference of the projectile. They're both .355"
But something is different about the projectiles designed for 357S
👍😊 in all of the years of watching videos, I can’t remember seeing a bullet flipping and straighten the expansion. Cool 😎
Me either.😎👊
I'm with you 357Sig loves a 125gr they can break 600 ft lbs.
The other 2 are only ok performers however the 125gr Gold dot loaded by Underwood is amasing
Love your "Gelly" lines!
I thought that that 147 would do better than it did. The 115 is just too light. I'm not a fan of the Sig or 9mm. As my wife says ''get big or get out.
To the Sig fans. I understand why you like them. It's a good round.
Thanks Tool Guy. Another good video.
Agreed. It has some mean numbers, but it feels like it's on the ragged edge of usability to get there.
Speaking of fragmentation… I’ve got some law enforcement 357sig fragmentation rounds. Got them in .308 Winchester as well. I guess they’re designed to scramble the brain of a bad guy without the risk of a penetrating round hitting a bystander. Have you tested fragmentation rounds? Always wondered what they would do to the jelly.
I figured the 147s would expand nicely moving 1200+ fps but poor design I reckon. I’d say 125gn is the way to go with this. I think it’s the magic weight for 357, 38 and 124 in 9mm. Great test just the same good sir. 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Don’t own a 357 Sig but do agree the 125’s seem to be the sweet spot. Not a huge fan of XTP’s for 2 legged critters. Other than the 380 which performed nicely there’s better designs out there. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!
you are hearing the sonic boom coming off the projectile as it travels down range since it is considerably over the speed of sound. usually rifles do this but that 115 grain is moving on out.
Not presently carrying 357 Sig, but if I did, it would be the 125gr, either Gold Dot or HST. I'd consider Underwood 125gr XTP.
Thanks Tools & Targets! Another tremendous presentation! Very impressive rounds, but I agree that the 357 Sig was designed around the 124-125 grain bullet.
I'm guessing these are projectiles designed for the 9mm and the 125 from the other test was specifically designed for the 357 Sig and it's higher velocities. 115 seems light for a 357 Sig, but I also think 155 is kind of light for 10mm. But those were some interesting results!
Yeah, I think you're right.
Agreed, I run 165 in my 40s
Great info. I run the 147 gr XTP at 1225 from my 16" carbines so this gives me a good idea how they will perform. The 147 gr XTP has a BC of 2.0 so it holds its energy out a bit.
The 125 gr bullets in the 357 SIG were designed for self defense and that is what i would use in them.
I would love to see some 44 mag test out of your model 29 with its 6.5 inch barrel.
I think you're right about the projectile weight. I've always thought that 140 is a great weight for the .357 magnum, so 125 gr. should be a peach in this one. Projectile design sure has improved since the 80s. Thank you, Sir, for all your helpful videos. Whatever folks are shooting, I just hope they're stocking up now.
I usually hunt with 125g JHP. Also startred using Lehigh Extreme Defender/Hunter bullets that come in at 120g. They are wicked fast and devastating in game.
.357 is great for hunting . It's not ideal for carry due to recoil, noise, and muzzle flash. Then again if you hit center mass, you only need one good shot. FBI data shows it's the best for one shot "knock down power".
I thought I felt blood running out of my ears after that 115!😂
@ToolsandTargets after two years of looking, yesterday I just found and bought a Smith & Wesson 327 Performance Center with the 2 inch barrel and 8 shot n-frame revolver. That should take care of the bad guys and my remaining hearing.....LOL.
@@rsbreeze Very nice 😎👊
Looks decent for subcompacts and longslides.
I have a 357 sig-conversion barrel for my Glock model 35. That gives me a 5.3-inch barrel. The 124 grain Hornady bullet is the one I favor. However, the Hornady 147 grain is an easy bullet to load due to its semi-boat tail base. It's a great bullet weight as a backup for wild hogs that are wounded.
Underwood has some 65 grain and 90 grain 357 sig
Nice test I'm a 10mm guy but .357sig is my 2nd choice aside from home defence and edc on range day with friends everyone brings random items wood blocks ,metal tanks etc to test different rounds and the fnfmj .357sig are just wicked hole punchers keeping up with 10mm even sometimes exceeding 10mm I carry hollow points but spare mags have either fnfmj or solid copper ex pen cuz if you have to reload you may need barrier penetration just my opinion I would love to see barrier test maybe wood block before jelly block just to see difference between hp and fmj
I actually run Corbon 115 - I believe they are XTPs. The point of 357 Sig is velocity and the noise is sonic crack. Higher velocity yields higher energy. Per your own calculation, that was very near 600 ft-lbs. Agreed Nosler ASP is not ideal at those velocities. Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, and bonded JHPs are better. The 357 Sig, even Corbon or Underwood, are easier to handle than 10mm. Sure, 10mm fans have no issues, but for those who find full-power 10mm unpleasant, they are better off with 357 Sig. Massive energy in a controllable round is why I prefer 357 Sig.
Me too I have 10mm full power ammo and follow up shots is alot slower due to recoil. I don't experience this with hot 357sig rounds. For me its 357sig on my night stand
Doing it big with the 357 sig
Love your 357 Sig tests. agreed on the little frag grenade, but without barrier that thing will be a real threat stopper.
Btw People are somewhat complaining about the sound signature when I shoot my handloads too - bunch of ….
The 147 is disappointing, a JHP not expanding at 1250 is rare. Bad choice by Underwood
Thank you sir. These 115's were boomin.
@@ToolsandTargets yeah, real conversation starter at a public range 😁. I think you tested the 65 grain Underwoods too, correct? Do you remember which one is louder?
@@nikos6220 Haven't tested those in .357sig.
@@ToolsandTargets ha, would be a worthy addition to you your 357 Sig long list. Something going 2200 ft/s out of a handgun is always good fun. That’s the projectile I take into the woods, as I have my doubts re JHP performance on wild boar 😁
357 sig with gold dots or HSTs is the way to go
I bought several boxes of HST when my local shop had em.
Not the fastest but they both perform and expand real nice. Underwood use to have a 115 gold dot that was awesome
I’d pick the 147 out of these two for sure.
Another interesting test! I agree that 125gr is optimal. Appreciate the 357 SIG tests. Thanks!
The last time I ordered from Underwood the only weight they had was the 115gr. I’ve got five boxes of it. I’ve yet to shoot any but this video makes me think I need to. I don’t know about an indoor range. I’ll have people hating on me! My 357 Sig barrel works perfectly in my G23. Thanks for the video sir.
Another good test and commentary Tools. This is all interesting to me never really seen a lot of good testing on the .357SIG. Nonetheless I think I agree with you very good caliber but the 10mm is my way to go. But the SIG gets a good honorable mention. Thanks for sharing be safe! 🇺🇸⭐️⭐️🇺🇸
Where I live I can go to most of the gun stores and purchase hotter 357sig ammo than 10mm I have to travel about 60 miles to Mackeys in Jamestown and they carry Underwood Buffalobore etc. For all calibers right on the shelf.
I love your content and your ability to present it. Keep it coming.
You should do a comparison when you find acouple winner like you did with 10mm at the end run them against each other and declare a winner, im hoping for the fed HST 125 sig....
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Thanks for the 357sig love
Been loving the 357sig tests. Have always been interested in having something chambered in it. Personally i would like to find an old trade m&p in 357sig, but few and far between these days.
Thank you sir. Mostly see Glock trades now.
@@ToolsandTargets yeah ive heard that from several ppl, i agree with you 125gr is where its at with that round though.
"It's got the energy, sure." Let's talk about energy.
The 115-grain load averaged 1257 feet per second at 50 yards, giving us an average of 403 energy foot pounds at that distance.
The 147-grain load was moving 1096 feet per second at 50 yards, on average, generating an average of 392 energy foot pounds.
Nothing to sneeze at from either of them.
I'll stick with my 125-grain .357 Sig ammo, though.
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I loved my P226 in .40 S&W, which came with a .357 Sig barrel too ,as a package, from Sig Sauer. Man I wish I would have kept that pistol.
I think you would have got the correct velocities, if you would have used a Sig pistol, or a pistol with standard rifling. Very good video...
I prefer 125gr in 357sig. But that 115gr load might be an interesting choice for the shorter barrelled Glock33 - or the Sig P239.
Or the Smith and Wesson shield 357sig
Absolutely.
I thought the 357 sig was a little more powerful than that I thought it was good for defeating soft body armor it wasn't much more than a 9mm to justify the price difference for the ammo. I will keep my 9mm and 10mm for EDC. Good video I was considering getting a 357 sig but I have a 357 magnum so I don't think I will be adding one to the collection.
That lone wolf barrel reduced the Velocity by about 50. Both those rounds exceeds the box velocity easily out of a stock G31 barrel. Great test though as usual. Could it be your becoming a 357 sig fan 😊
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This is true!!! Glocks factory oem barrels are SUPERIOR for high velocity calibers...smoother mirror like bores...very low drag and tight for better pressure behind bullets..you'd have to look through a 357sig factory glock barrel and compare how "smooth" & polished the bore is to really understand
Only other tool putting out sound like that is a 327 Federal Magnum. High speed low drag!
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Ya,I have a SP101 327 loud as fck
@@MarineBiker Facts. It’s a real nasty cartridge!
Love your videos!
I've never seen a round open up, turn around....& close back up 😳
😂😂😂
I prefer the 115! It does what it's supposed to....in my Opinion 😁
Great video, as always, brother.
Thank you sir.😎👊
Another good test, Brian! Ok, I don't even own a 357 Sig but I would definitely carry one! The trick is to use the right bullet, in the case of the Sig, a Lehigh Xtreme Defender or a Gold Dot as a close second. 90 gr for the Lehigh and 125 for Gold Dot. Still, the 115 has close to the same penetration. If that were a Gold Dot there would be practically no frags in the wound track. In the case of the 147, I say again, they simply cannot be trusted to fully expand at 9mm or Sig velocities! I've seen more failures with the 147 gr bullet than in any othe caliber. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. As you said, not my cup of tea! The type and weight of bullet makes a huge difference so anyone shooting a 9mm or 357 Sig should choose very, very carefully what they carry!
Cheers,
jc
Cartridge pressure is a strange thing. You'd think that a much lighter bullet could be driven a lot harder at the same pressure level but it doesn't often come close to what you'd think you'll get. The 357Sig was designed for ~125 grainers because they offer the best terminal performance for that caliber size and velocity. When the recipe works this good don't change it.
That quote got me laughing out loud TNT 📢
😂
It’s an old poem actually. One of my mother’s favorites.
Great test I’m glad to see the 257sig tested with different weights being as it was designed around 124-25 that’s all I have ever run through mine mostly because that’s all I can find locally
Having said all that I think I will stick with 125 unless maybe using it as a dangerous game sidearm but in that situation I’m using 44mag revolver until I can get a 460swmag or 454 casul that type of situation you just want it to work
Thank you sir.😎👊
Ooooohhhh.... Yay. Did you happen to also order some of their ultra light 60 to 90 grain solid copper 357 sig? I run the 9mm 90gr +P+ Xtreme defender and they are super loud like a rifle just like the 115gr 357sig. Doing over 1500fps as well. Its NASTY
Good results from both but as soon as I saw the wound tracts I felt the same way as you. Just not what I expected. Appreciate you Tools. 🇺🇸
Thank you sir.😎👊
Is 9mm equal to or superior to 357 Sig? Let’s think about that for ourselves for just a moment, shall we? I get it that some people pick a side and feel the need to defend their choice, but not to the extent of regurgitating pure nonsense that they themselves were misinformed on.
Some ammo manufacturers actually have loads that even surpasses the ballistics of traditional 357 magnum performance. Underwood's 357 SIG Gold Dot for example. Also because it’s a bottleneck cartridge it has the added benefit of feeding more reliably than other pistol rounds. It’s flat shooting and will punch through auto glass like it was butter.
It’s literally a 9mm projectile “except” because it’s 225-300 fps faster it penetrates most barriers as well as 10mm yet doesn’t over penetrate flesh, which is welcomed to aid in avoiding collateral damage.
It has a flatter trajectory that in turn makes it more accurate and potent at distance. Though the penetration is no greater than 9mm in flesh, the cavity damage is much more devastating making it more likely to stop a threat with less shots.
357 Sig Compact and Subcompact firearms actually have more energy than an equivalent sized barrel length 10mm. Even out of as much as a 4” barrel, Underwood 125gr 357 Sig has the energy that’s equal to or greater than most 10mm loads with the exception of a few specialty loads. Basically 10mm energy only surpasses 357 Sig out of longer full size barrel lengths.
Underwood has a 357 Sig 65gr Xtreme Penetrator round that exceeds 2250+ fps out of just a 6” barrel. I don’t know of any other semiautomatic pistol caliber that has rounds capable of such velocities from a handgun. It goes straight through a 3A panel even. At those velocities normally temporary cavities tear.
One of the most attractive benefits of owning a 357 Sig is the ability to convert the firearm to 40 S&W & 9mm with nothing more than a simple barrel swap. You also normally can do a 357 Sig or 9mm conversion if you own a 40 S&W firearm as well. That means you can train on whatever platform you’re most comfortable with and whatever ammo is the most affordable, and no it isn’t always 9mm. That means that you are less hindered by ammo shortages… and when you’re done training simply swap out the barrel and ammo back to 357SIG and you’re all set. Sadly on a native 9mm firearm you don’t have any option to do a conversion.
I never understood what’s not to like about 357 SIG… well other than ammunition availability and cost being the only negatives I guess, but it is the better round.
Keep in mind that when you compare 9mm +P or +P+ to try to achieve 357 Sig performance, 357 Sig is actually cheaper than 9mm. When I searched +P+ to get as close to 357 Sig performance as possible, it was more expensive than a standard 357 Sig JHP round.
9mm +P+ is still only 1300 fps in 124 grain. That’s 50 fps slower than the lowest end 125 grain Sig round at 1350 fps and we’re comparing +P+ 9mm ammo here. Yet the bare minimum 357 Sig performance isn’t even achievable and this is usually attempted in a platform that isn’t even recommended for +P+ or even +P at times.
I say it’s best to swap to a 9mm conversion barrel when training and back to 357 Sig right before you’re all done to finish up with 357 to cut that expense down.
In most cases the recoil of any superior round can be overcome with training. I actually have little to no recoil on one of my setups. It’s compensated. You’ll find that comps actually provide greater compensation with 357 Sig compared to 9mm because of the higher pressures. I do understand that some people are recoil sensitive and are more comfortable with 9mm or other lower recoiling rounds. I understand some just prefer the thought of higher capacity. I totally understand your decisions. But let’s not bash any superior round because you prematurely decided on a specific one.
Naturally shot placement, especially with pistol calibers is key… but under pressure understandably, your shot placement could be lacking. With that in mind the welcomed advantages of 357 Sig could easily make the difference between life and death, shot placement aside.
Keep in mind that mag dumping 9mm into a target may not be justifiable. Back in the old days when the revolver was supreme, you were trained to take two shots and then assess the effectiveness. Essentially those first two shots may be justifiable, but the next 15 shots may not be. Again with that in mind, a more powerful caliber will require less shots to stop a threat, while decreasing the chances of any wrongdoing.
There’s nothing wrong with 9mm it’s awesome, but let’s be clear… it isn’t equal to 357 Sig and the few extra rounds it’s capable of holding in a magazine over 357 Sig definitely doesn’t make it the superior choice. In time I expect 357 Sig to make the comeback that 10mm has made in recent years… For myself these 357 Sig advantages make 9mm less desirable. How about for you?
10mm vs 357 Sig, both properly loaded out of a compact barrel are equal in power. Out of the same full size length barrel lightly loaded (weak) 357 Sig is more powerful than lightly loaded (weak) 10mm. Properly loaded 10mm out of a full size is more powerful than properly loaded 357 Sig but at that point 10mm is typically more expensive than 357 Sig. But for urban carry 357 Sig is highly enjoyable to carry. I love 10mm, especially in 155gr and under but the firearms need to be larger to outshine 357 Sig. For woods with larger predators I would absolutely chose 10mm over 357 Sig but truthfully if I was going into said woods, would 10mm be enough? I would have to step in up to 44 Mag. 10mm is in a position that has little use for me even with it being the awesome round that it is. Unless I was carrying a 4.5-5” full size in urban areas but that would be overkill with what 357 Sig achieves.
I got the 68gr underwood 357 sig haven’t tried it yet
Hey tools if you could get your hands on some .357 sig T series I think that would be worth some jelly time testing!
I still would love to own a 357 sig… I’m considering EDCing 10mm but 357 may be another option. Idk they ammo cost is similar and 10mm is the best millimeter
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Have shot 95 gr fmj fp 380 bullet loaded in 357 sig. 7 gallon water jugs. More than most rifle cartridges.
Yes the 125gr