I own one of those birds, I bought it from the builder, I fly it from Florida to Nick shop every year for my annual maintenance, great shop and great people out there.
What a great video! Thanks for showing some of these faster composite aircraft. My flying has always revolved around low slow old aircraft designs. Watching a video like this makes me want to go fast!
Amazing work for a quick build. Truly with good forethought about the one who is building the dam thing to get it done right...Thank goodness for quality and good designs and build easy.
@@tedlang4327 keep us posted on how it flies....I'm seriously considering this. Choice is between this, RV7 or 9. Would be nice to see more of these flying and hear more feedback. Safetynis my first concern.
All composite is such a better design, I work on Da-20s. Little bit more maintenance and cost than a traditional aluminum but they'll be flying way longer so long as there aren't hard limits on the airframe
Bryan, Did I miss the segment (portion in which Nick discloses that George Bye electric plane(s) use(s) the Arion Legend airplane Entirely ? Not a secret; therefore, what is the delay at Bye Aerospace? No, the FAA is Not the culprit this time!
The tanks provided with my Arion Lightning in 2018 are vinyl ester with methacrylate adhesives. Some vinyl esters are "ethanol friendly", and some are not. I don't know what vinyl ester they used, but I did put test coupons of Hetron 922 vinyl ester and Plexus MA310 sealer in 1) avgas, 2) car gas with ethanol, and 3) pure ethanol. That vinyl ester is not ethanol friendly per the spec sheet, but it's what I had on hand, and I thought perhaps a good "worst case" test. All samples were unaffected after 2 years in avgas, were noticeably affected by car gas, and were essentially destroyed overnight by 100% ethanol. Arion uses an ethanol resistant interior slosh coating, but you will still most likely have some unprotected areas (like the fuel probe, installed after the slosh), so I would not use any fuel with ethanol. However, since the tanks are replaceable, on the sad day that we loose avgas, you would be in a much better position than many other aircraft --even those with "wet wing" aluminum tanks that use sealants. Just get welded aluminum tanks in that future case.
@@tedlang4327 My Zenith has a Ethanol friendly fuel system so I use MOGAS, mostly non-Ethanol 93 octane but occasionally I use 93 with Ethanol. I have had no issues in the 18 plus months that I have been flying the plane.
It would be nice if they designed the fuselage to accept a ballistic parachute. With Sling, Vans, and so many others including LSA offering chutes I think it would be a huge selling feature.
Well to answer my own question/ statement, BRS has a chute listed for this airplane so I guess they do have one. I would recommend they advertise that a little more.
Ballistic Chutes are indeed an option. However, it is not a retrofit; you have to have the straps built into the fuselage as it is laid up. I had the straps installed and have the chute waiting in my basement, but not installed yet. They are not common due to weight, space occupied in baggage area, and obviously cost, none of which are trivial.
@@tedlang4327 thanks for the info Ted. Most ballistic chute options are pricey, especially once you include installation. I also understand it lowers baggage capacity and weight, but regardless if the naysayers I believe it's one extra safety feature I wouldn't want to do without! Did you build the XS? What engine did you go with, and is it flying yet? I'd love to try the UL Power 180hp full fadec engine in this airframe. Brad
@@Austinmediainc Yes, I built an XS with Titan 340. It is flying, but has not completed its phase 1 -- lots of delays, including long winters in Florida. It is a joy to fly, solid but nimble. The UL power engine is pretty costly as I recall, but certainly has some good points. I know at least one lightning XS was built with the 180 hp UL power engine, and Nick supports that. If you are considering a lightning, do make the trip to Shelbyville to try one. If you can figure out how to correspond more directly, ask any questions you have-- always happy to talk airplanes!
@@tedlang4327 thanks Ted, appreciate it. I was glad to hear Nick is continually making updates to improve the aircraft and addressed some characteristics from the first versions. As far as UL power, not sure when you bought your titan but the quote I received from UL was about 10k cheaper. I love the Titan engine and would go with that over lycoming. I know it's a lycoming clone but I'm not a lycoming fan especially after the 75% increase in price over the last 3 years. I know UL isnt as proven yet but i like the modern technology and full fadec. Are you on Facebook, I just joined the Arion owners and enthusiasts group.
Umm... hello??!! Marketing Department?? Guy asked you a question 6 months ago as a result of the video you went to great lengths to produce and you can't answer him? Not a good sign.
Damn, I can't believe he casually mentioned the Titan 370 once and then never mentioned it again in the video. I'd be curious to know if the new spar changed Vne at all.
Thanks for the tour, Nick. I've been deciding on a build to embark on. Was very impressed by everything involved with the Lightning XS, but also worried because I've never worked with composites in my life. This was extremely helpful.
Mine is close to finished. It’s not really a composites project. Yeah, you get a lot of gel coat dust on you building, but zero structural composites and a lot of bolting things together.
In the factory-built SLSA, it’s a 120 HP Jabiru. In the experimental, it’s whatever you can make work…that’s what experimental means. But, the recommended is for the Classic is the same 120 HP Jabiru, and for the XS engines like Titan O-340 at 180 HP.
This plane is an exact copy of the original Spanish design VM1 ESQUAL that was produced in SPAIN in 2 versions, carbon fiber and glass fiber in early 2000. The production moved to Sweden because the owner died and the swedish factory today still produces the Esqual. It's a great plane, but I am astonished to see how easy is to produce a perfect replica simply giving a new name and produce in the USA. No major changes or improves can be seen. Patents should cover in a better way to original designers & factories.
The Classic looks externally like the Esqual, except for the different horizontal stabs. Internally, the VM1 and Lightning are quite different. The Lightning is quite a bit beefier. The new manufacturer may have incorporated some of the changes made by Arion, but the original VM1s, for example, that came to the US didn’t have any carbon fiber.
@@gregjennings9442 Sorry to disagre. I am the Owner of a VM1 totally built in Carbon Fiber . There were esquals both made in carbon or fiberglass. Mine is really light and strong. I insist that Arion made a copy of the Esqual. Of course they made some variations and may be some improvements. But they cannot mantain that the design is born in the US. Vol Mediterrani, the Factory closed after the sudden death of the creator/designer/builder, Francisco Velasco. Of course , Esqual design is based in an American Aircraft, the Lancair, but adapted in size and design to the European Standards of Ultralight Aviation. Arion simply imported one Esqual and copied it. History should be told as it is, not rewritten. Anyway, I am pleased to see so good design flying even as a variation of the original.
@@JavierVelasco07 : You may insist all that you want. But, we have people in the group that own both and tell us that they are different…that the Lightning is built different internally. And, the designer says straight up that the Lightning owes much to the VM1.
I'm 6'4", 256 lbs, torso length balanced with leg length but short arms. I sat in one last year and describe it as at the limit of acceptable. You'll be snug. I would have happily purchased one. Big plus was the speed of construction and my preference for composites over aluminium. Having sat in the RV14 though I'd tend to pick that if only for size and storage. Time will tell. Hope that helps.
I am asking myself, why they choose the Jabiru Engine rather then a Rotax Family Engine? I don’t trust the Jabirus. To much trouble with it. The Lightning is a great LSA, but to me only with a reliable power plant.
Aircraft engine makers put out maybe 5000 engines a year. Auto engine makers put out 100,000 if not more per year, per model. How can aircraft engines possibly be safer given those numbers?
@@marcella2mm160 The first generation Jabiru engines had some teething problems, but they're pretty much worked out by gen 4. They are a great fit to this airplane, MUCH cheaper than the Rotax, smooth running (6 cylinders), no gearbox, and they just sound better than a Rotax. Also, Arion is the Jabiru US factory service center, so it makes sense for them to be used in the Lightning Classic (EAB) as well as the approved LSA. But, after all that, I chose a lycoming clone (Titan 340) for higher horsepower and speed. Arion mostly supports lycomings (and clones), Jabiru, and UL power. But Arion is very flexible, so I would hate to rule out an eventual rotax-lightning.
@@tedlang4327 Thanks for the informative info on the Jabiru and other engines. Good to know. Rotax is not without glitches, the floats in the Bing carbs for one…ugh. Your 587JL is going to be a beautiful aircraft! Keep us posted with updates and the finished plane:)
"We call it tooling not molds" that's weird lol, tooling refers to all the tools that are required to make a specific thing, a mold refers to the specific tooling. That'd be like saying "We don't call it a sandwich, we call it food", like yeah sure you aren't technically wrong, but you aren't even close to being right lol. I can just imagine hiring a new guy and they say "grab the tooling" and he just stands there like uhhh ALL of it? lmao, starts dragging over all the mill, coping saw, drills, welder, molds, rivet gun, etc lmfao, then that genius says "NO YOU MORON THE TOOLING, BRING THE TOOLING!" and he's like "I'M TRYING!", hahaha some real Abbot and Costello stuff right there.
Actually, the term "tooling", in the aerospace industry, refer to the tolerances the tools are held to, "molds" have a much wider dimensional tolerance. You want your aircraft made with tooling, not molds. I could be wrong, maybe Rockwell International lied to me the whole 25+ years I spent in their tooling department building the Space Shuttle and B-1B bomber. When someone calls for a tool, it is called for by the tool number, which corresponds to the tool's owner, as well as the model of the aircraft, and the part that it builds. So no one would ask for "tooling", you would ask for tool # such and such, which would then tell the technician exactly what customer, aircraft, and part they were building. Thanks for the attempted humor though.
Form follows function. Look around at how many two place, side by side, low wing, tractor configuration, experimentals there are. Other than that, they don’t have anything to do with one another.
I remember emailing this company asking if they had an Australian distributor and was told there was no Arion dealer but if I wanted a Jabiru engine I should contact Jabiru. Ehhh? Love the airframe (We have two gorgeous examples flying locally), pity about the sales department.
I don't know about an Australian Arion distributor, but I know from following the "recreational flying" forum (recreationalflying.com) that there are some flying in Australia. There are a few interesting threads there, one even for a new small Australian turboprop engine being fitted to an Arion Lightning, but the vast majority of lightnings do use the Jabiru, which is a natural fit. Builder support would be more limited in Australia, but it is not a difficult kit. There is also a facebook support page.
I own one of those birds, I bought it from the builder, I fly it from Florida to Nick shop every year for my annual maintenance, great shop and great people out there.
I just found out about this plane and now all I want to do is to fly it! this plane looks amazing and you guys do great work!
What a great video! Thanks for showing some of these faster composite aircraft. My flying has always revolved around low slow old aircraft designs. Watching a video like this makes me want to go fast!
Out of all the aviation channels I watch, this one is by far the best! Excellent questions! Very useful information.
Thank You for the support Terry! Hope you find it Fun and Educational! :-)
Great job Nick and Gary! Good to see Gary and Factory 10 getting some attention. Great people.
Amazing work for a quick build. Truly with good forethought about the one who is building the dam thing to get it done right...Thank goodness for quality and good designs and build easy.
Thanks for the video. You gave a new perspective on this kit
Loved the Jabiru engine explanation. I'm sold on 184-pound weight, thank you
The new fuel tanks look awesome! Way to go Arion and Factory 10!
Great episode!
Nice 👍
Very interesting episode.
Nice tour Bryan. Nice Plane!
Beautiful bird
Sandwich infusion. Way to go ! That's a beautiful mold there.
These are really good looking planes too. They look like a turbo prop.
Very informative. Thanks for taking the time for interviews and the good editing.
I’ve been there nick and his crew are great ! J250 my bird !
I've always loved these! Maybe I need another build when I'm done with the 21?
Excellent stuff bro
I love the look of this
Awesome video!!!
These are awsome planes
I'm hoping mine (in the video) is! It was fun building.
@@tedlang4327 keep us posted on how it flies....I'm seriously considering this. Choice is between this, RV7 or 9. Would be nice to see more of these flying and hear more feedback. Safetynis my first concern.
❤ the sports version & the color scheme. Gr8 1st aircraft. Very tidy design 👍👌
I wonder if youtube could put like 8 or 9 more ads into this video...
Beautiful job sir I impressed
Great video and beautiful airplane….I wish they offered a taildragger.
Thanks my teacher
9:45 Do these particular fiberglass tanks have excellent tolerance of ETHANOL in the fuel???
The stuff used to coat the tanks internally is incredibly inert. Ethanol, avgas, hydrochloric acid, and distilled water all have the same reactivity.
All composite is such a better design, I work on Da-20s. Little bit more maintenance and cost than a traditional aluminum but they'll be flying way longer so long as there aren't hard limits on the airframe
Cool. We need tiny turbofan engines. Imagine how clean a composite construction you can do when there is no firewall. Like a glider.
Dam I'm on board
nice plane
Bryan, Did I miss the segment (portion in which Nick discloses that George Bye electric plane(s) use(s) the Arion Legend airplane Entirely ?
Not a secret; therefore, what is the delay at Bye Aerospace? No, the FAA is Not the culprit this time!
Awesome! Great aircraft! I wonder how a retractable gear would perform on that!
Please, please, please introduce a taildragger version of the XS.
Please, please, please introduce a Rotax 915iS engine option for the XS.
I wonder if you could do a constant speed prop on this plane
Yes. I investigated them. I couldn’t justify the extra $10,000 up front and ongoing maintenance costs.
Are those tanks and fuel system ethanol friendly?
The tanks provided with my Arion Lightning in 2018 are vinyl ester with methacrylate adhesives. Some vinyl esters are "ethanol friendly", and some are not. I don't know what vinyl ester they used, but I did put test coupons of Hetron 922 vinyl ester and Plexus MA310 sealer in 1) avgas, 2) car gas with ethanol, and 3) pure ethanol. That vinyl ester is not ethanol friendly per the spec sheet, but it's what I had on hand, and I thought perhaps a good "worst case" test. All samples were unaffected after 2 years in avgas, were noticeably affected by car gas, and were essentially destroyed overnight by 100% ethanol. Arion uses an ethanol resistant interior slosh coating, but you will still most likely have some unprotected areas (like the fuel probe, installed after the slosh), so I would not use any fuel with ethanol. However, since the tanks are replaceable, on the sad day that we loose avgas, you would be in a much better position than many other aircraft --even those with "wet wing" aluminum tanks that use sealants. Just get welded aluminum tanks in that future case.
@@tedlang4327 My Zenith has a Ethanol friendly fuel system so I use MOGAS, mostly non-Ethanol 93 octane but occasionally I use 93 with Ethanol. I have had no issues in the 18 plus months that I have been flying the plane.
The tank coating used is ethanol friendly. Ethanol, hydrochloric acid, and distilled water have the same coefficient of reactivity,
Nice osam
It would be nice if they designed the fuselage to accept a ballistic parachute. With Sling, Vans, and so many others including LSA offering chutes I think it would be a huge selling feature.
Well to answer my own question/ statement, BRS has a chute listed for this airplane so I guess they do have one. I would recommend they advertise that a little more.
Ballistic Chutes are indeed an option. However, it is not a retrofit; you have to have the straps built into the fuselage as it is laid up. I had the straps installed and have the chute waiting in my basement, but not installed yet. They are not common due to weight, space occupied in baggage area, and obviously cost, none of which are trivial.
@@tedlang4327 thanks for the info Ted. Most ballistic chute options are pricey, especially once you include installation. I also understand it lowers baggage capacity and weight, but regardless if the naysayers I believe it's one extra safety feature I wouldn't want to do without!
Did you build the XS? What engine did you go with, and is it flying yet? I'd love to try the UL Power 180hp full fadec engine in this airframe.
Brad
@@Austinmediainc Yes, I built an XS with Titan 340. It is flying, but has not completed its phase 1 -- lots of delays, including long winters in Florida. It is a joy to fly, solid but nimble. The UL power engine is pretty costly as I recall, but certainly has some good points. I know at least one lightning XS was built with the 180 hp UL power engine, and Nick supports that. If you are considering a lightning, do make the trip to Shelbyville to try one. If you can figure out how to correspond more directly, ask any questions you have-- always happy to talk airplanes!
@@tedlang4327 thanks Ted, appreciate it. I was glad to hear Nick is continually making updates to improve the aircraft and addressed some characteristics from the first versions. As far as UL power, not sure when you bought your titan but the quote I received from UL was about 10k cheaper. I love the Titan engine and would go with that over lycoming. I know it's a lycoming clone but I'm not a lycoming fan especially after the 75% increase in price over the last 3 years. I know UL isnt as proven yet but i like the modern technology and full fadec. Are you on Facebook, I just joined the Arion owners and enthusiasts group.
What is your lead time these days for booking a build? Thank you!
Umm... hello??!! Marketing Department?? Guy asked you a question 6 months ago as a result of the video you went to great lengths to produce and you can't answer him? Not a good sign.
Damn, I can't believe he casually mentioned the Titan 370 once and then never mentioned it again in the video. I'd be curious to know if the new spar changed Vne at all.
Talk to Nick, but I believe the answer there is no.
Do you make electric airplanes?
I want one.
Thanks for the tour, Nick. I've been deciding on a build to embark on. Was very impressed by everything involved with the Lightning XS, but also worried because I've never worked with composites in my life. This was extremely helpful.
Mine is close to finished. It’s not really a composites project. Yeah, you get a lot of gel coat dust on you building, but zero structural composites and a lot of bolting things together.
i WANT ONE !!!!
using what brand of engine bro? how much hp?
In the factory-built SLSA, it’s a 120 HP Jabiru. In the experimental, it’s whatever you can make work…that’s what experimental means. But, the recommended is for the Classic is the same 120 HP Jabiru, and for the XS engines like Titan O-340 at 180 HP.
This plane is an exact copy of the original Spanish design VM1 ESQUAL that was produced in SPAIN in 2 versions, carbon fiber and glass fiber in early 2000. The production moved to Sweden because the owner died and the swedish factory today still produces the Esqual. It's a great plane, but I am astonished to see how easy is to produce a perfect replica simply giving a new name and produce in the USA. No major changes or improves can be seen. Patents should cover in a better way to original designers & factories.
The Classic looks externally like the Esqual, except for the different horizontal stabs. Internally, the VM1 and Lightning are quite different. The Lightning is quite a bit beefier. The new manufacturer may have incorporated some of the changes made by Arion, but the original VM1s, for example, that came to the US didn’t have any carbon fiber.
@@gregjennings9442 Sorry to disagre. I am the Owner of a VM1 totally built in Carbon Fiber . There were esquals both made in carbon or fiberglass. Mine is really light and strong. I insist that Arion made a copy of the Esqual. Of course they made some variations and may be some improvements. But they cannot mantain that the design is born in the US. Vol Mediterrani, the Factory closed after the sudden death of the creator/designer/builder, Francisco Velasco. Of course , Esqual design is based in an American Aircraft, the Lancair, but adapted in size and design to the European Standards of Ultralight Aviation. Arion simply imported one Esqual and copied it. History should be told as it is, not rewritten. Anyway, I am pleased to see so good design flying even as a variation of the original.
@@JavierVelasco07 : You may insist all that you want. But, we have people in the group that own both and tell us that they are different…that the Lightning is built different internally. And, the designer says straight up that the Lightning owes much to the VM1.
Any idea about cockpit size, I'm always curious cause I'm 6'5". Also, Looks like a good platform for a Corvair engine, of which I'm a fan.
I'm 6'4", 256 lbs, torso length balanced with leg length but short arms. I sat in one last year and describe it as at the limit of acceptable. You'll be snug. I would have happily purchased one. Big plus was the speed of construction and my preference for composites over aluminium. Having sat in the RV14 though I'd tend to pick that if only for size and storage. Time will tell. Hope that helps.
@@PatrickJWenzel good to know. Appreciate the feedback.
How much is the kit?
Hey! Thanks for watching. Nick discusses the price points at the end of the episode. :-)
How much baggage can this hold
The XS has a useful load of 800 lbs. Full fuel is 240 lbs. If you replicate the demo plane, you’ll run out of weight before you run out of Cg.
I hope the government will allow Airventure to happen this year. I see a lot of trouble on the horizon and hope that I am wrong.
Have faith! Masks are over with!
They need an electric motor option.
Lucid motors has a 650HP/ 88KG powerplant. Would love to see it in an airplane.
@@wingslevel With a long extension cord?
@@PDZ1122 Or highly flammable lithium batteries
@@PDZ1122 Broadcast Power, ala tesla coils
I believe the sunflyer is using the lighting aircraft but could be wrong
But seems i remember one buil for that purpose.
I am asking myself, why they choose the Jabiru Engine rather then a Rotax Family Engine? I don’t trust the Jabirus. To much trouble with it. The Lightning is a great LSA, but to me only with a reliable power plant.
Aircraft engine makers put out maybe 5000 engines a year.
Auto engine makers put out 100,000 if not more per year, per model.
How can aircraft engines possibly be safer given those numbers?
Was wondering the same. Maybe that’s one of the “other options available” . A Rotax 915is would be a perfect match for that slick aircraft:)
@@marcella2mm160 The first generation Jabiru engines had some teething problems, but they're pretty much worked out by gen 4. They are a great fit to this airplane, MUCH cheaper than the Rotax, smooth running (6 cylinders), no gearbox, and they just sound better than a Rotax. Also, Arion is the Jabiru US factory service center, so it makes sense for them to be used in the Lightning Classic (EAB) as well as the approved LSA. But, after all that, I chose a lycoming clone (Titan 340) for higher horsepower and speed. Arion mostly supports lycomings (and clones), Jabiru, and UL power. But Arion is very flexible, so I would hate to rule out an eventual rotax-lightning.
@@tedlang4327 Thanks for the informative info on the Jabiru and other engines. Good to know. Rotax is not without glitches, the floats in the Bing carbs for one…ugh. Your 587JL is going to be a beautiful aircraft! Keep us posted with updates and the finished plane:)
Do you need a new employee? 😆
"We call it tooling not molds" that's weird lol, tooling refers to all the tools that are required to make a specific thing, a mold refers to the specific tooling. That'd be like saying "We don't call it a sandwich, we call it food", like yeah sure you aren't technically wrong, but you aren't even close to being right lol. I can just imagine hiring a new guy and they say "grab the tooling" and he just stands there like uhhh ALL of it? lmao, starts dragging over all the mill, coping saw, drills, welder, molds, rivet gun, etc lmfao, then that genius says "NO YOU MORON THE TOOLING, BRING THE TOOLING!" and he's like "I'M TRYING!", hahaha some real Abbot and Costello stuff right there.
Actually, the term "tooling", in the aerospace industry, refer to the tolerances the tools are held to, "molds" have a much wider dimensional tolerance. You want your aircraft made with tooling, not molds. I could be wrong, maybe Rockwell International lied to me the whole 25+ years I spent in their tooling department building the Space Shuttle and B-1B bomber. When someone calls for a tool, it is called for by the tool number, which corresponds to the tool's owner, as well as the model of the aircraft, and the part that it builds. So no one would ask for "tooling", you would ask for tool # such and such, which would then tell the technician exactly what customer, aircraft, and part they were building. Thanks for the attempted humor though.
@@garysmrtic4077 Ouch! ha!
Tell us how you really feel!
Heh heh heh...
Crazy they don’t do any TH-cam videos for marketing … 👎
Did you steal from Jabiru South Africa or Australia, or both? Soon China will reciprocate.
Seems to be a lancair copy cat.
Lmao why because it is composite? Completely different numbers and flying characteristics....
Form follows function. Look around at how many two place, side by side, low wing, tractor configuration, experimentals there are. Other than that, they don’t have anything to do with one another.
specific material..dude are you a religious guy...
Beautiful plane
I remember emailing this company asking if they had an Australian distributor and was told there was no Arion dealer but if I wanted a Jabiru engine I should contact Jabiru. Ehhh? Love the airframe (We have two gorgeous examples flying locally), pity about the sales department.
I don't know about an Australian Arion distributor, but I know from following the "recreational flying" forum (recreationalflying.com) that there are some flying in Australia. There are a few interesting threads there, one even for a new small Australian turboprop engine being fitted to an Arion Lightning, but the vast majority of lightnings do use the Jabiru, which is a natural fit. Builder support would be more limited in Australia, but it is not a difficult kit. There is also a facebook support page.