Some things I would like to point out; - "Arkham Origins Blackgate, handheld counterpart to Origins." I don't think counterpart is the correct word here. Origins Blackgate is a sequel to Origins (it's handheld but takes place after, which even Arkham Shadow references). There is actually a Arkham Origins mobile (same Origins story, but mobile) which is pretty much the counterpart that you're referring to. - Sefton Hill It's just not Sefton. While Sefton Hill is quoted in the article, Jaime Walker was also along with Sefton Hill head of Rocksteady & was in charge of production of this game and supervised both script and gameplay. Both of them jumped ship a year before the game came out (to form their new company Hunter Star Games) and left the remaining devs to take brunt of the blame. I think the writing was on the wall when they decided to dismiss Paul Dini as the main writer after Arkham City. Sure, they got away with Arkham Knight somehow, but let's not forget out of Batman Arkham trilogy (and Origins by WBM), Knight is considered to be weakest narrative in the series. And they got totally exposed with SSKTJL, by its ragebait narrative (cause let's not kid ourselves here, it is ragebait). People were very skeptical of them deciding to go with Suicide Squad as their main characters in the main game; cause most expected either a Superman game or a Justice League game (both options, which I'm ngl would have been far better alternatives than using the Squad). Main game's story (and disrespecting the League) just pissed off so many people and this resulted in a bad word of mouth which started the whole downward spiral for this game. A Justice League game where the League fights against the Criminal Syndicate or Justice Lords, I'd imagine would have been received far, far better than what SSKTJL became. It plays with Rocksteady's strengths with melee combat, includes possible co-op, while giving variety of gameplay. But alas, not what we got. I've seen some say, this game would have been better if it had gotten proper post launch support with budget given to its DLCs. While to some extent I would agree, would that really have much improved the overall perception of this game to DC fans? I'd say most likely not. Suicide Squad wasn't what they were really looking forward to (esp compared to what most fans have been asking for), & it's the fault of WB & Rocksteady for not understanding what fans genuinely was wanting. And at this point, I highly doubt most Arkham fans even consider this game to be canon. Oh well, it is what it is. At least it's over, & put out of its misery lol
I haven't read entirely, but your point about Arkham Knight having the weakest is not entirely true. Paul Dini wrote about the 1 or 2 acts in the main story of city and then he quit writting the story of these games. I would argue that Paul Dini does a great job writting a story but I wouldn't put City as the best story, many people praised as the best and I still feel that game is highly overrated. The story is a mess and you felt like you are constantly jumpy about plot devices that it feels rushed probably because it is bad for Joker being the main villain. When they keep constantly teasing other villains only to Joker gets the spot light Another correction here, people also do consider the Joker boss fight in Arkham Asylum at the end very terrible and very out of place and anti climax for Joker to be buffed for no reason. Arkham Knight had a great story but everyone who is a die hard fan could have guessed many things about it. But I didn't, so I still like every dialogue of that game, scenery, traversal, locations and the overall feeling, story and gameplay were totally satisfying. Point is, is not that they got away "somehow" because you can clearly see Paul Dini doesn't need to be here calling the shots to get to what matters. Arkham Knight is a prime example of a game doing literally just fine on its own by 10 years later after it was launched I love that game so much, and Rocksteady's talent it is still present till this day even in Suicide Squad. The story is a mess because the game went through development hell and something happened that it was a inside job to me that lead them to be conflicted with themselves. But as even many pointed out, you can still see Rocksteady's talent here in Suicide Squad but you all paid attention to it's worse. You can clearly see the best design for Metropolis, you can clearly see the best design for the league, you can clearly hear one of the best tracks for the league you can clearly see overall effort for everything in this game that leads into it's designs and tracks and people themselves ported many things out of this game to Arkham knight. Overall it was shifting studios and ideas that led to this mess, not the confidence to do it.
Only thing I disagree with in this video is the implication that this is all on a rocksteady. WB has to take a larger part of the blame bc it’s become pretty well known that this project was mandated by them. Considering what they had to contend with they did the best they could, but they should’ve been allowed to keep in their wheelhouse and give us a Superman game or another single player game with a different hero to step away from Batman for a bit
I agree that WB had a lot to do with the game’s problems, and I agree that Rocksteady at large wasn’t to blame. My comments were in reference to an article Jason Schrier wrote based on interviews he conducted with Rocksteady developers. They said that Sefton Hill, the director of the game, was behind a lot of its issues. He reportedly was the one who wanted to go in a multiplayer/live service direction. He wrote and constantly rearranged the story, and he made a lot of decisions about gameplay while bottlenecking the development process. I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video!
@@Irogen ah ok that clears it up a bit for me then. It felt very condemning of the rocksteady as a whole on my initial viewing. It’s fair to single out Sefton Hill in this case so I agree with that. I feel for those who worked on this and those were left holding the bag, at a certain point they had to do what they had to do to keep people working and keep the lights on. They were left between a rock and hard place for sure
@PaddyDukess I absolutely agree. The devs at Rocksteady did great work and have received a lot of undeserved hate. Sefton Hill jumped ship the second negative feedback started coming out, so I felt it was fair to single him out a bit for leaving his team to deal with the criticism for choices he made. I don’t have any problems with Sefton as a person, I just hope he learns from his mistakes on Suicide Squad. As for the rest of the team, they are an insanely talented group and I’m very excited to see what they do next.
@ hopefully it’s Superman, can’t tell you how long I’ve wanted a Superman game lol great work on the vid! Definitely articulated what I was feeling about the game as someone who has 200+ hours logged on it
Kevin isn't the main character in the game, Batman is. 80% of the players don't even know how Kevin is. Rock Steady should've just continued with making the future cyberpunk Batman Beyond world game they were hinting at. See all the character become old and seeing how they changed and having future tech would've been a good game.
This game should have never existed. Rocksteady/WB should have been beyond Arkham. I feel bad for all the devs having their lives, time, and talent wasted on this trash? Best decision is to de canonize the SS.
This game reminds me of that scene from ready player one, when the CEO puts all the ads and garbage in front of the front of the player before they pass out.
Think this review sums up the game perfectly! 👍 There are so many plotholes with the narrative from Lex Luthor having the clone of batman captive to not telling the squad that they had killed clones & also where the other justice league heroes were as Aquaman was pretty much confirmed to be in this game! Also, with the new seasons, in my opinion, they should not have used an elseworld version of Joker, Miss Freeze or Lawless. Yes, deathstroke was the correct choice but by the time he came, it was too late. Should've had characters like killer frost or used characters like Black Manta where with his season, the boss fight was a corrupted version of Aquaman! Finally, and this was the thing that put me off the game, when season 1 did come out, they gave you a choice where you either had to grind to unlock or Joker or you could pay to play as him straight away which is just so wrong on all levels and showed that WB and the higher ups at Rocksteady where using the beloved Arkhamverse for money rather than give it a great narrative/continuation which us fans wanted. Hopefully Rocksteady return to their roots & their next game is an awesome single player, narrative driven game that they have proved is their strong point!
Also,I think the writers of the game pulled from every lore source EXEPT the Arkham universe! Harley is more like the gay Harley from the silly adult cartoon show,Deadshot is movie Deadshot,Joker is more like young Letto Joker and Deathstroke is from a comic too!😞
Hi! Great video!can you please do a full on review on spider-man 2? And do a rereview on miles morales as well? Would love that and would love to know! Thanks for great content!
Why do you place all the blame on Sefton Hill? Why not on WB's direction? (WB owns Rocksteady and has reportedly influenced a lot about the game's narrative and overall creative choices)
no, Sefton was a huge part of the problem on this game. A report came out detailing Sefton's part in this bs. WB is partially responsible of course, but Hill was the one who suggested this mess. From narrative to shxtty gameplay.
I appreciate the question! WB certainly didn’t help matters, but I chose to focus on Sefton Hill’s missteps on the project because he has mostly escaped accountability for his part in it. His former team has been relentlessly criticized for decisions he made before jumping ship. Jason Schrier’s article (based on interviews with Rocksteady devs) makes it clear that Hill was the one who wanted to make a live service multiplayer game. It was Hill who wrote and constantly rearranged the story. It was Hill who made decisions about the gameplay. I’m not calling him out to hate on him, but to express my frustration in hopes that he can learn from his mistakes and better play to his strengths on his next project. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video!
I hate how you blame the customers and fans for this game being received poorly, and not the people responsible for writing this horrible game and developing it other than Hill. This sounds like deflecting responsibility. and I'm sick of people acting like we as customers _owe_ people who hate us, anything. Gaming is entertainment; it's recreational. We don't pay $60+ only to be told to enjoy the broken gameplay, massive amount of glitches, and SBI propaganda in the writing. So no, this game doesn't deserve a free pass.
@@MarvinPowell1 Not going to lie, I have no clue how this was your takeaway from the video. I spend the majority of it talking about the game’s numerous problems. I call out Sefton Hill for spearheading the poor decisions in the game and WB for pedaling the game post launch on a shoestring budget. I agree that this game was rightfully criticized by the community, and I also felt frustrated that I spent money on it. At no point do I say the game should get a “free pass.” With that being said, a lot of the people who worked on this game did not have a hand in the story or gameplay mechanics. By all accounts, the staff was as perplexed by this game as we were. They don’t deserve hate for just doing their job.
That introduction is a perfect example of how the mighty have fallen.
Some things I would like to point out;
- "Arkham Origins Blackgate, handheld counterpart to Origins."
I don't think counterpart is the correct word here.
Origins Blackgate is a sequel to Origins (it's handheld but takes place after, which even Arkham Shadow references). There is actually a Arkham Origins mobile (same Origins story, but mobile) which is pretty much the counterpart that you're referring to.
- Sefton Hill
It's just not Sefton. While Sefton Hill is quoted in the article, Jaime Walker was also along with Sefton Hill head of Rocksteady & was in charge of production of this game and supervised both script and gameplay. Both of them jumped ship a year before the game came out (to form their new company Hunter Star Games) and left the remaining devs to take brunt of the blame.
I think the writing was on the wall when they decided to dismiss Paul Dini as the main writer after Arkham City. Sure, they got away with Arkham Knight somehow, but let's not forget out of Batman Arkham trilogy (and Origins by WBM), Knight is considered to be weakest narrative in the series.
And they got totally exposed with SSKTJL, by its ragebait narrative (cause let's not kid ourselves here, it is ragebait).
People were very skeptical of them deciding to go with Suicide Squad as their main characters in the main game; cause most expected either a Superman game or a Justice League game (both options, which I'm ngl would have been far better alternatives than using the Squad).
Main game's story (and disrespecting the League) just pissed off so many people and this resulted in a bad word of mouth which started the whole downward spiral for this game.
A Justice League game where the League fights against the Criminal Syndicate or Justice Lords, I'd imagine would have been received far, far better than what SSKTJL became.
It plays with Rocksteady's strengths with melee combat, includes possible co-op, while giving variety of gameplay.
But alas, not what we got.
I've seen some say, this game would have been better if it had gotten proper post launch support with budget given to its DLCs.
While to some extent I would agree, would that really have much improved the overall perception of this game to DC fans?
I'd say most likely not.
Suicide Squad wasn't what they were really looking forward to (esp compared to what most fans have been asking for), & it's the fault of WB & Rocksteady for not understanding what fans genuinely was wanting.
And at this point, I highly doubt most Arkham fans even consider this game to be canon.
Oh well, it is what it is.
At least it's over, & put out of its misery lol
I haven't read entirely, but your point about Arkham Knight having the weakest is not entirely true. Paul Dini wrote about the 1 or 2 acts in the main story of city and then he quit writting the story of these games.
I would argue that Paul Dini does a great job writting a story but I wouldn't put City as the best story, many people praised as the best and I still feel that game is highly overrated. The story is a mess and you felt like you are constantly jumpy about plot devices that it feels rushed probably because it is bad for Joker being the main villain. When they keep constantly teasing other villains only to Joker gets the spot light
Another correction here, people also do consider the Joker boss fight in Arkham Asylum at the end very terrible and very out of place and anti climax for Joker to be buffed for no reason.
Arkham Knight had a great story but everyone who is a die hard fan could have guessed many things about it. But I didn't, so I still like every dialogue of that game, scenery, traversal, locations and the overall feeling, story and gameplay were totally satisfying.
Point is, is not that they got away "somehow" because you can clearly see Paul Dini doesn't need to be here calling the shots to get to what matters.
Arkham Knight is a prime example of a game doing literally just fine on its own by 10 years later after it was launched I love that game so much, and Rocksteady's talent it is still present till this day even in Suicide Squad. The story is a mess because the game went through development hell and something happened that it was a inside job to me that lead them to be conflicted with themselves.
But as even many pointed out, you can still see Rocksteady's talent here in Suicide Squad but you all paid attention to it's worse. You can clearly see the best design for Metropolis, you can clearly see the best design for the league, you can clearly hear one of the best tracks for the league you can clearly see overall effort for everything in this game that leads into it's designs and tracks and people themselves ported many things out of this game to Arkham knight.
Overall it was shifting studios and ideas that led to this mess, not the confidence to do it.
I just want a batman beyond game, hopefully that's next on rocksteady's agenda.
This game broke my heart and pissed me off😢
love the introduction.
Only thing I disagree with in this video is the implication that this is all on a rocksteady. WB has to take a larger part of the blame bc it’s become pretty well known that this project was mandated by them. Considering what they had to contend with they did the best they could, but they should’ve been allowed to keep in their wheelhouse and give us a Superman game or another single player game with a different hero to step away from Batman for a bit
I agree that WB had a lot to do with the game’s problems, and I agree that Rocksteady at large wasn’t to blame. My comments were in reference to an article Jason Schrier wrote based on interviews he conducted with Rocksteady developers. They said that Sefton Hill, the director of the game, was behind a lot of its issues. He reportedly was the one who wanted to go in a multiplayer/live service direction. He wrote and constantly rearranged the story, and he made a lot of decisions about gameplay while bottlenecking the development process.
I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video!
@@Irogen ah ok that clears it up a bit for me then. It felt very condemning of the rocksteady as a whole on my initial viewing. It’s fair to single out Sefton Hill in this case so I agree with that. I feel for those who worked on this and those were left holding the bag, at a certain point they had to do what they had to do to keep people working and keep the lights on. They were left between a rock and hard place for sure
@PaddyDukess I absolutely agree. The devs at Rocksteady did great work and have received a lot of undeserved hate. Sefton Hill jumped ship the second negative feedback started coming out, so I felt it was fair to single him out a bit for leaving his team to deal with the criticism for choices he made. I don’t have any problems with Sefton as a person, I just hope he learns from his mistakes on Suicide Squad.
As for the rest of the team, they are an insanely talented group and I’m very excited to see what they do next.
@ hopefully it’s Superman, can’t tell you how long I’ve wanted a Superman game lol great work on the vid! Definitely articulated what I was feeling about the game as someone who has 200+ hours logged on it
The arkhamverse should just be done and rocksteady to start something entirely new. Theres no point in continuing it now that kevin is gone
Or, even better, Rocksteady should just shut down for good.
@@SpideyfanXyea …No
Kevin isn't the main character in the game, Batman is. 80% of the players don't even know how Kevin is. Rock Steady should've just continued with making the future cyberpunk Batman Beyond world game they were hinting at.
See all the character become old and seeing how they changed and having future tech would've been a good game.
This game should have never existed. Rocksteady/WB should have been beyond Arkham. I feel bad for all the devs having their lives, time, and talent wasted on this trash? Best decision is to de canonize the SS.
Oh yes!
And they can use the assets of Suicide squad to make a Justice League game!😊
@Jimboh1637
Agreed. Nobody even likes the S. Squad.
The HUD in this game is so cluttered and ugly.
I got this game free with PS+ and I still haven’t played it because of how bad all the systems look.
This game reminds me of that scene from ready player one, when the CEO puts all the ads and garbage in front of the front of the player before they pass out.
Think this review sums up the game perfectly! 👍
There are so many plotholes with the narrative from Lex Luthor having the clone of batman captive to not telling the squad that they had killed clones & also where the other justice league heroes were as Aquaman was pretty much confirmed to be in this game!
Also, with the new seasons, in my opinion, they should not have used an elseworld version of Joker, Miss Freeze or Lawless. Yes, deathstroke was the correct choice but by the time he came, it was too late. Should've had characters like killer frost or used characters like Black Manta where with his season, the boss fight was a corrupted version of Aquaman!
Finally, and this was the thing that put me off the game, when season 1 did come out, they gave you a choice where you either had to grind to unlock or Joker or you could pay to play as him straight away which is just so wrong on all levels and showed that WB and the higher ups at Rocksteady where using the beloved Arkhamverse for money rather than give it a great narrative/continuation which us fans wanted.
Hopefully Rocksteady return to their roots & their next game is an awesome single player, narrative driven game that they have proved is their strong point!
They had better!
Or they are doomed!😢
Also,I think the writers of the game pulled from every lore source EXEPT the Arkham universe!
Harley is more like the gay Harley from the silly adult cartoon show,Deadshot is movie Deadshot,Joker is more like young Letto Joker and Deathstroke is from a comic too!😞
Hi! Great video!can you please do a full on review on spider-man 2? And do a rereview on miles morales as well? Would love that and would love to know! Thanks for great content!
Man this game was a waste!😢
WB should not have made it a live service game and Sweet baby should not have writen the story!😠
This game was doomed from the start
16:16 did i just fucking saw a riddler trophy?
Why do you place all the blame on Sefton Hill? Why not on WB's direction? (WB owns Rocksteady and has reportedly influenced a lot about the game's narrative and overall creative choices)
no, Sefton was a huge part of the problem on this game. A report came out detailing Sefton's part in this bs.
WB is partially responsible of course, but Hill was the one who suggested this mess. From narrative to shxtty gameplay.
I appreciate the question!
WB certainly didn’t help matters, but I chose to focus on Sefton Hill’s missteps on the project because he has mostly escaped accountability for his part in it. His former team has been relentlessly criticized for decisions he made before jumping ship. Jason Schrier’s article (based on interviews with Rocksteady devs) makes it clear that Hill was the one who wanted to make a live service multiplayer game. It was Hill who wrote and constantly rearranged the story. It was Hill who made decisions about the gameplay. I’m not calling him out to hate on him, but to express my frustration in hopes that he can learn from his mistakes and better play to his strengths on his next project.
Thank you for taking the time to watch the video!
This game was a mistake, plain & simple, I love the talent, but not the product, this was WB’s fault.
I hate how you blame the customers and fans for this game being received poorly, and not the people responsible for writing this horrible game and developing it other than Hill. This sounds like deflecting responsibility. and I'm sick of people acting like we as customers _owe_ people who hate us, anything. Gaming is entertainment; it's recreational. We don't pay $60+ only to be told to enjoy the broken gameplay, massive amount of glitches, and SBI propaganda in the writing. So no, this game doesn't deserve a free pass.
@@MarvinPowell1 Not going to lie, I have no clue how this was your takeaway from the video. I spend the majority of it talking about the game’s numerous problems. I call out Sefton Hill for spearheading the poor decisions in the game and WB for pedaling the game post launch on a shoestring budget. I agree that this game was rightfully criticized by the community, and I also felt frustrated that I spent money on it. At no point do I say the game should get a “free pass.”
With that being said, a lot of the people who worked on this game did not have a hand in the story or gameplay mechanics. By all accounts, the staff was as perplexed by this game as we were. They don’t deserve hate for just doing their job.