No, this is Neal Adams while stone cold sober. That's what makes it so terrifying. Jokes aside Adams can be a crackpot but he's also a real bro, he helped Siegel and Shuster fight for their copyright and helped Frank Miller get his health out of the pithole, and you've gotta respect him for that.
I know a lot of bad writing gets compared to a fever-dream, but this is truly the closest to what a fever dream is actually like. I couldn't write like this if I tried.
The only thing I've ever read that I'd say felt like a fever dream was one of the early issues of venom where he gets injured and mercury runoff joins the symbiote. Not a nice dream
I think the idea of this arc was to combine all the historical variants of batman into a single character and narrative... with the conclusion being that any man who has had been through this many distinct phases in his life would probably be pretty crazy. The different variations of the character are inherently incongruous, so combining them all into a single characterization results in a character who is completely erratic.
If you ever get a chance to meet Neal at a con take it. the man is a riot, we were joking around, he was yelling at me about dead man an security started coming around, so he started yelling at them about being uptight. it was amazing. the best experience I ever had meeting an artist by far.
Bruce: "Ollie and I have this bet that you'd believe anything I told you, and I guess I lost." Clark: "Well I'm sorry for not being quite as naïve as you thought! ... So how much are you out?" Bruce: "Have you ever seen _Trading Places?"_ Clark: *"You put me through **_all that nonsense_** for a dollar!?"*
It was meant to be kind of an origin thing: he used guns in his first appearances, here's why he doesn't any more, etc. Adams just didn't have the ability to write it the way he needed to.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Neal a couple times now he’s a super nice guy he just kinda sits there and draws while his wife sells prints he’s seemed happy to talk each time I’ve met him he told me writing isn’t his favorite he much rather just draw
If Batman: Odyssey proves anything, it's that Denny O'Neil truly was an exceptional writer, and the perfect person to counter balance Neal's artistic sensibility.
I wonder how much of this was editorial interference...or if it was a result of a LACK of it. It's hard to know. I worked at DC looooong ago, and there was an editor there who rewrote EVERY script on one book in particular. The writer still got the credit...and it didn't stop until said writer came in and blew up at the editor telling him to either fire him or stop rewriting him. (The editor was forced out a few months later.) The reason I tell this story is that things like that thought balloon on the same page as narration are the kinds of things he would do. Like, it LOOKS like someone saw that drawing and said "We need to explain the gun," so they added a balloon rather than asking Adams to rewrite. But, this whole thing is a mess, so it's hard to say.
I really appreciate you highlighting all the great stuff Neal Adams has done in the industry first, rather than being one of those people who are overly negative to drive clicks
honestly, this review makes Odyssey seem like a modernized silver-age comic. like the silver age, it's not that good when taken unironically, but when you look at it in a humorous PoV, it's comedic gold.
I'm with you. I was warned going in that the story was batshit crazy and I had a blast reading it. If i picked it up the shelf and was expecting a continuation of the feel of Dennis O'Neil's Batman, I'd have been pissed.
I bought the trade expecting a story like those he and Dennis O’Neil were famous for. What I got was simultaneously far worse and somehow amazing. Like a less mean spirited and more batshit All-Star Batman and Robin.
Actually they are a bit similar in a weird sense: They’re both Batman stories with bad writing but pretty good art for the most part. ASBAR is definitely more mean spirited than odyssey
Jason Garrett ive never heard someone describe asbr as “mean spirited” before. that being said, it is definitely the most fucking apt description of asbr ive ever heard.
Well, at least All star Batman & Robin took place in a different continuity, so the fact that Batman acts like a psychopath is explainable, it' s just another interpretation of the character. Batman Odyssey however is set in the main continuity, thus it makes no sense
You have made my weeks with your "Comic Țropes." I'm in hospice care with end stage liver failure and your analysis helps me keep going. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
"A comic book is only as good as a writer who is sincerely talented and tries hard makes it. And an artist who is very talented and tries hard can make it. That's how good it can be" --Neal Adams
I love when generic terms are used for villian names, like "sensei". That can range from a preschool teacher to a college professor, to a medical surgeon.
It strikes me as totally something he would do to pretend to get his hand cut. Kind of like an insurance measure, just in case anybody was getting suspicious of the resemblance and was wondering if he had impenetrable skin.
I think the clue to understanding (so to speak) this series is the title, "Odyssey." I think it is meant reflect and reference several things that could be considered an odyssey. The first being the poetic epic, The Odyssey. The second being Batman's own journey, and the third being Neal Adams' own journey at DC. Themes in The Odyssey are Wandering, returning, friendship, testing, and omens. I think Batman Odyssey is filled with these elements as well. Deadman seems to act as a stand in for Athena who often disguises herself to aid Odysseus and his son Telemachus. Perhaps Thalia is a stand in for the goddess Calypso? There is a scene in the Odyssey where Odysseus is exhausted and collapsed into a sleep, just like Batman. I think, there is even a flashback within a flashback while Odysseus is telling the various stories of his perils to the Phaeacians. This kind of reminds me of Batman telling his various stories to Clatk Kent. Ther is a scene where a disguised Odysseus tells one if his servants, Eumaeus, a fictitious story about himself. I feel like, this what Batman is actually doing with Clark. That's why the story makes no sense. There are true elements in the story like the fact that many of these characters are real. But the events are meant to mislead Clark, just like Eumaeus. Anyway, just a thought. Oh, BTW, hollow earth theory and expanding earth theory are not necessarily the same thing.
You know, I expected the payoff to be that Bruce Wayne was talking to a psychiatrist (probably Hugo Strange) and was himself locked up in Arkham with the whole story being some kind of delusion.
I actually wondered if it was some past life experiences, all jumbled up. Because of Darkseid taking Batman out during Final Crisis. Which I believe was at the same time 🤔
I always thought of Neal Adams as the first comic artist superstar. I was mesmerized as a little kid with his art work. My uncle growing up in the 70's had a bunch of his comics. He kept them into adulthood and I got my hands on them when I was a kid. He let me read them to my hearts content and I was blow away by Neal Adams art!
You might be onto something there - I couldn't help thinking that this looked for all the world like maybe a pile of artwork made for a handful of stories that were commissioned but never finished, which were then stitched together with a framing device and new text to make a "complete story" out of the disparate bits and pieces. The artist's evident love of experimentation suggests he did it just to see if he could, and also as a showcase for a couple other experimental ideas (like maybe that hollow-earth storyline).
I know there's a writing exercise where writers take turns adding lines to a story. It makes me wonder if Adams did that with someone and they were just hardcore trolling him.
I get the feeling this is a "here, hold my beer" story. Now the real scoop would be finding the other half of that conversation and what was said. I am sure Neal ended it, "yeah, and I'll get them to publish it too..."
I love Neal Adams but this is just way too crazy for me. Maybe, he just became tired of typical stories and just decided to a comic based on the concept of WTF.
From what I’ve read, he’s just not a very good writer, but I’m still new to comics, so I very well could be wrong, but from what I’ve gathered, he’s much more of drawing guy, and he just went off the cuff
The Flying Graysons being killed by the League of Assassins is a huge retcon, as this was 2010 and at this point Dick has long ago caught Tony Zucco who really killed them.
I've never been a comics guy, but my first exposure to Neal Adams was on early TH-cam when he posted a bunch of videos from his "documentary" promoting his theory that plate tectonics are a lie and the earth is expanding. Skeptic youtubers had a field day with him. It's kinda hilarious that he wrote it into a comic now.
I just have to laugh my ass off at the representation of the supposedly spaniard "El Maníaco". Literally nobody here in Spain would say something like "Ay, mi hermano" WTF Neal Adams hahahahahah Greetings from Madrid!
I’m assuming that he’s more familiar with Mexican Spanish, and figured that people spoke the same in Spain? I don’t speak Spanish, but Americans tend to be more familiar with New World dialects of languages, aside from maybe French, depending on where they live
Funny 😄 that the guy doing this podcast/Whatever also seems to not have a clue as to who the legendary Singer/actor is. Lol 😂 I'm pretty sure that was a Neal Adams inside joke.
I genuinely understand the plot of Finnegans Wake more concretely than I do this comic. This is not a joke, I could explain what happens in Finnegans Wake more accurately and easily than I could this comic. I’ve both read this run and watched this video TWICE and I STILL don’t understand what happened in this story lol
I dunno, maybe it's best to remember it because it taught us some important things about Neal Adams (he can't write, and he's a crackpot who really believes that the Earth is hollow and expanding.)
@@billvolk4236 Couldn't care less what he believed, he was a pioneer of creator's rights in the industry. Nothing can take that or his brilliant artistic talents away. Being creatively weird is wonderful and interesting, not something to shun. The important thing this teaches us is that lots of superhero comics readers are conservative and boring.
Chris I absolutely love your deep dives in to subjects I have no idea existed. You are one of the most talented content creators on TH-cam. You transcend the subject you are discussing to make it easy for people like me who know nothing about comics to be incredibly entertained.
Oh man. You left out the best part! In the panel when we see Bruce's amazing reaction to Alfred's revelation, the first word balloon that's coming out of his mouth is the calm phrase "What about it'?", so we can assume this is actually Bruce Wayne's totally chill face.
I'm in agreement: Neal Adams has always been a great artist, although his art has suffered in the past several years, due to age. But he's still head and shoulders above most artists. But, as a writer, he's in the class of Jack Kirby. Kirby is great in art, not so much, in terms of writing.
Neal Adams dialogue reminds me of another talent who thought himself a writer as well. That talent is Todd MacFarlane. Both prolific artists but terrible writers. Stick to what you know best.
@@xyzz8722 that doesn't mean anything. Spawn was a hit because the character and concept of Spawn is really cool and also because it was Image's flagship title.
FYI: The official term for this expanding earth theory is... the expanding earth theory. ABsolutely love Neal as an artist and champion of creator rights but yeah... that part's wild
It’s about Batman killing. Will he or won’t he kill the Sensei? We open on the lesson he learned about guns on the train, one of the two rules that define the modern interpretations of Batman. The other lesson is “nobody dies,” and that’s what this book is about. The mint serves to set up a conflict. Batman becomes so overwhelmed with anger when a little girl gets shot that he nearly crosses a line. The conflict of the book is “does/will/can Batman kill?” Chris didn’t cover some of this, but essentially Batman discovers that Ras al Ghul is in control of his life much more than he thought. He learns this in a few ways. When Deadman is there in Joker’s body telling Batman he’s chasing clowns, we are learning with Batman that Ras has assigned Doctor Slattern/Trigger to release the Rogue’s Gallery from the asylum at specific intervals to distract Batman from his machinations in the Underworld. This is meant to explain why he never knew it existed. But Ras’ son has usurped him and is extremely dangerous. This means Batman doesn’t know if he can trust Ras or Talia, but they have a common enemy in The Sensei, a much more devastating force. Another connection they draw is the one between Deadman and Robin. Chris is wrong about just one thing as far as I can tell. The League of Assassins doesn’t require you to kill trapeze artists. That was the one test for this one person that one time. Either Deadman or Robin’s parents were the practice run, and the other death was the real exam. I’ll have to find my copy to remember the exact details of why you would need to practice an assassination. But this gives him an enemy in The Sensei. This whole book, Ras is pressuring Batman to kill The Sensei. Unlike Ras, The Sensei is a psychopath with ambitions so deep and strident that Ras has refused to give him Lazarus potion for decades in the hopes it would make him weak, and yet The Sensei is still a lumber master of the martial arts to the point that he can deflect a missile with one hand (that really happens in the book). Aquaman’s appearance is another challenge to Batman’s ethic, stating that he should be comfortable with killing. Many points of view surrounding the topic are seen, including the scene where Robin appears to explode. Chris never explained that either. It was essentially a special device Robin wore in his outfit that allowed him to perform a high jump propelled by a burst, which gave the appearance of death. Batman seems unfazed by this because he knows Robin isn’t dead, but until the reader and other characters know that, he is challenged on his glibness towards death. So when Batman forms a posse and heads into the Underworld he sees how chaotic it has become, and we see Batman join the rebellion against The Sensei’s forces. They meet on the battlefield and they agree that they will fight under Arkham. The strangeness of the underworld accentuates the alien territory Batman finds himself in of having agreed to kill somebody. But as time goes on, he gets the hang of the place in the same way that he comes to terms with the charge to the point that by the end he’s riding a pteranodon with ease (personally I think it should have been a giant bat). We watch as they fight and the whole time this audience of his villains, Ras, Talia, Deadman, Robin, Alfred, and maybe more are commenting on whether Batman is going to kill The Sensei and why. When he finally does it, he satisfies Ras, and frightens the villains, which is meant to in some small way thwart Ras’ scheduled release of criminals mattering. At this point, Robin is disappointed in Batman. We only learn later that when they met on the battlefield they had a secret telepathic conversation where they agreed that Batman wouldn’t kill The Sensei but would instead revert him to a baby, which was all The Sensei wanted in the first place. So Batman makes a declarative statement at the end as he reveals to Robin that he will always do everything in his power not to kill somebody. And then we discover that the whole story was being dictated to Superman, who says he’ll get the Pulitzer for Journalism and flies away. Maybe it’s unbelievable but in the world of superheroes where random thugs can drink various serums and become planty or icy or Bane-y or crazy or babies, maybe it would win a Pulitzer.
Neal Adams was one of my childhood heroes; as a teenager I spent years trying to copy his style, and - when I grew up and learned about his activities for creators' rights - he became a real hero to me. His classic work (mainly with top-notch inkers, such as Dick Giordano and Tom Palmer) still holds up today as some of the best in comics history. That being said, his art here is far below par - very rushed, very exaggerated poses and facial contortions, very weak female figures (the few of them there are in this massive tome). And the storytelling - oh, boy. Ooooh, boy. Let's just say he makes late-era Frank Miller look like Alan Moore...All-in-all: not good. Bad. Very bad. [imagine finger wagging] Very, very bad! The video, though - the video was great!!!
I'm with U on his art being very sub-par here... I mean U could tell it's Neal but it's like the finished inks were done straight on the thumbnails. Not finished drawings..
I will NEVER shirk from my complaints about the writing on "Batman: Odyssey", but the artwork is NOTHING short of BREATHTAKING! Your body of work through the decades MORE than makes up for this hiccup. You were the absolutely BEST, your Batman was the version of my childhood and may you rest in peace.
If anything, the craziness and being ironically funny is a requirement for that. After all my time in art school, something like this doesnt even phase me anymore, but it does still give me a chuckle.
Hi Comictropes, I like it when you are a little bit mean spirited, even if it's not that mean. These episodes where you take the piss out of goofy comics are some of my favorites.
I knew his work in deeper detail thanks to ComicTropes, and the man just became my hero. What he did for original authors to be compensated, going freelance on the big two with his real name, and his incredibly prolific career as an artist, no small feats at all. Opinions may vary about late work of a man approaching 80 years-old, but no doubt Neal Adams has been both The Brave and The Bold of comic books history. Nothing but deep, profound respect.
The episodes you've been doing lately are so awesome and well-done. I watch a ton of TH-camrs and you're definitely my favorite as far as comicbook related content goes! Thank you so much for all the hard work
And to think, you used to complain about policemen walking down the street saying "BIG DIX MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE!" Bet you wish you had some of that storytelling clarity now.
Batman Odyssey, also known as "when Skateman doesn't adequately prepare you for how terrible a Neal Adams comic can be". (Has there been a Comic Tropes on Skateman yet? There really should be. Vietnam vet turned roller derby star, who turns vigilante when his friend is murdered in a roller derby "accident". Believe it or not, it's worse than it sounds.)
Adams, Aparo and Giordano are my top three Batman artists ever since my uncle gave me Batman: From the 30s to the 70s. I’ve never really been a fan of the huge ripped version of Batman. Or Superman, as Christopher Reeve just looked how I believed Superman would look if he were real. The guy’s an alien who converts solar energy for his strength, he doesn’t technically need to workout unless the sun blew up.
ok, thank you for this one. I excitedly picked up the hardcover of this story some 6 years ago, and I thought it was just me. I tried to read this book on no less than 3 occasions. and could never get a full grasp of Neal's ark here. so thank you for helping me to know it was not me, but him. great job Chris.
I met Neal in 2016 at a convention. He’s a really nice guy in person and is really passionate about being an artist and being an artist myself he gave me a lot of advice about how to improve as one. He also said that if he had an opportunity to do Batman: Odyssey he said he wouldn’t.
Another awesome vid, Chris! One of my all-time favourite Batman artists, but this one was a head scratcher. There has to be some onus on the editor who let this one go to print. The editor should have said something to Adams along the lines of "Neal, what the hell were you thinking?" Still love Adams' art. Thanks for posting!
I honestly believe this is the best Batman has ever been. Maybe my favorite comic run ever, and nothing can convince me otherwise. It's basically if Archer was Batman.
If anybody wants to read a spiritual sequel to this, check out Adam's The Coming of Supermen. It's not quite as insane, but it's still amazing, especially the ending.
I took that out the library to read. UTTER shite!! Couldn't believe that this nonsense was allowed to find print! It made NO SENSE!? Biggest pile of crap I've had the misfortune to scroll through since SOMEONE let John Cleese at Superman in True Brit! Wotta steamer..
First time viewer. Great historical content. Thanks for your objective approach. I will be subscribing. I wish they still did panel style commercial art, it's pretty great.
Neal Adams has created quite the career for himself and I constantly thank him for creating Manbat and Sauron at DCC (my 2 faves)- yet must wonder if his writing flew wildly as they did.
I’ve never heard Ra’s al Ghul pronounced, “Raze” al Ghul, but what an incredibly bizarre story that I wasn’t aware of. I was a big Neal Adams fan growing up, Batman #251 still stands out, but his work seemed to go through a strange devolution later - kind of glad I skipped that particular period now. He’s still one of the all time greats despite his later efforts. Thanks for sharing this.
Wow, this is an incredibly bonkers Batman story! It's crazy that Neal Adams did this. While I've always loved him as an artist, I guess I never thought about his ability (or inability?) to write coherently. Of course, maybe it's all worth it just to see Batman ride a dinosaur, eh? ...or maybe not, ha!
Ernest Hemingway: "Write drunk. Edit sober."
Neil Adams: "Write drunk. Got it."
No, this is Neal Adams while stone cold sober. That's what makes it so terrifying.
Jokes aside Adams can be a crackpot but he's also a real bro, he helped Siegel and Shuster fight for their copyright and helped Frank Miller get his health out of the pithole, and you've gotta respect him for that.
That’s actually a Peter De Vries quote
gold jerry
Hemingway would never have said that. He lived to drink and just happened to write, but he didn't believe in mixing the two.
@@mutuallysustainedhateboner1426 weed doesn't do this ...
I know a lot of bad writing gets compared to a fever-dream, but this is truly the closest to what a fever dream is actually like. I couldn't write like this if I tried.
Damn right, it reminded me the A.I. made Batman wich had a lil more sense than this XD
The only thing I've ever read that I'd say felt like a fever dream was one of the early issues of venom where he gets injured and mercury runoff joins the symbiote. Not a nice dream
I think the idea of this arc was to combine all the historical variants of batman into a single character and narrative... with the conclusion being that any man who has had been through this many distinct phases in his life would probably be pretty crazy. The different variations of the character are inherently incongruous, so combining them all into a single characterization results in a character who is completely erratic.
@@matthinton19 lmaoooo what happened
ROBERT RODRIGUEZ would be proud for this version of Batman
I've been using this image as my avatar for many years now. It's perfect.
A excellent choice sir.
Bruce Wayne as played by Arnold Schwarzenegger 😁
Cropped like that its amazing
@Sour Puss That's actually pretty accurate.
It really is perfect.
This characterization of batman is hilarious like something out of MAD magazine.
This feels like MAD mixed with every 90’s and 2000’s anti-hero ever
Good call. It does remind me of MAD.
My theory: Superman is tripping balls on silver kryptonite and we're getting the story how Clark is processing it.
Fact 🤣
Now that's an excellent theory for a batshit insane comic.
Batman drunk bruce wane sober Its a Quentin Tarantino batman
Batman might have a concussion after getting shot in the head but there is no way he’s not gonna finish this story
I really like the idea that this is how a spaced out Clark is interpreting a drunk Bruce trying to explain a complex adventure.
"batman getting shot a hundred times makes him pass out" wait what
That happened to me in GTA the other day
This is like a 12 year olds stream of consciousness fanfiction. Amazing.
Noah Farmer honestly you probably could XD
Noah Farmer XD
Gotta love this story, i promise ypu will love it XD
Seems more to me like a machine-generated script from an algorithm that's not very good at keeping track of it's own plot as it goes
@@cryptidproductions3160 basically the same thing lol
Batman dropping onto the floor and taking a nap on the spot is possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen in a comic
He just like me fr
I like that Bruce insists on being naked for his interview with Clark
@@ffnendhgrgdxD 😂 to brag about being a man or something.
If you ever get a chance to meet Neal at a con take it. the man is a riot, we were joking around, he was yelling at me about dead man an security started coming around, so he started yelling at them about being uptight.
it was amazing. the best experience I ever had meeting an artist by far.
i was able to chat with neal at the sd con for about 30 minutes
he is brilliant
@@thewkovacs316 why was he yelling at you about dead man?
Bruce: And that's the whole story. Any questions?
Clark: Yes. Are you high? I mean, did the Joker drug you or something?
Seriously, is there a consensus on what drug Adams was doing? Was it a psychotic breakdown?
@@Foxisfortraitors Yes, Neal Adams is crazy 🤪. Check out his Channel.
Bruce: "Ollie and I have this bet that you'd believe anything I told you, and I guess I lost."
Clark: "Well I'm sorry for not being quite as naïve as you thought! ... So how much are you out?"
Bruce: "Have you ever seen _Trading Places?"_
Clark: *"You put me through **_all that nonsense_** for a dollar!?"*
@@Wendy_O._Koopa "Bruce, its been 5 years, you still owe me 15 dollars"
@@Wendy_O._Koopa wait I don't get what trading places has to do with a dollar
i feel like a stroke is coming on while u read this to me. Neal straight up shitposted a 13 issue batman run LOL
Love the way people just walk into the batcave from offstage like it's the living room in a sitcom 👍
Interviewer: What is batman odyssey about?
Neil Adams: Yes
It was meant to be kind of an origin thing: he used guns in his first appearances, here's why he doesn't any more, etc. Adams just didn't have the ability to write it the way he needed to.
This made me laugh out loud, thank you, hahaha
"He helped shame Warner Bros. into giving creators pensions and medical benefits..."
Warner Bros. had a sense of shame?!
it was the seventies
In the 70s, nerds were not important.
"I'd say it came out of left field but that's an actual location"
Nice. I'm definitely going to use that.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Neal a couple times now he’s a super nice guy he just kinda sits there and draws while his wife sells prints he’s seemed happy to talk each time I’ve met him he told me writing isn’t his favorite he much rather just draw
He has a youtube channel. It's great. He defends this though or maybe just clarifies
If this run of Batman was my first introduction to the character, I would have never picked up another Batman comic book
I actually read this during some dark times my life. It is a total mess but It was nice to read this mess while being a mess.
If Batman: Odyssey proves anything, it's that Denny O'Neil truly was an exceptional writer, and the perfect person to counter balance Neal's artistic sensibility.
I wonder how much of this was editorial interference...or if it was a result of a LACK of it. It's hard to know. I worked at DC looooong ago, and there was an editor there who rewrote EVERY script on one book in particular. The writer still got the credit...and it didn't stop until said writer came in and blew up at the editor telling him to either fire him or stop rewriting him. (The editor was forced out a few months later.) The reason I tell this story is that things like that thought balloon on the same page as narration are the kinds of things he would do. Like, it LOOKS like someone saw that drawing and said "We need to explain the gun," so they added a balloon rather than asking Adams to rewrite. But, this whole thing is a mess, so it's hard to say.
Clark just left the batcave thinking "thanks for wasting my afternoon."
I had always heard Odyssey was incomprehensible, but never imagined it was this crazy.
Batman Odyssey if it was Directed by Robert Rodriguez
It's worse.
This feels like a prime dad story. Goofy tone with random trivia and conspiracy theories thrown in.
You just injected a supremely heavy dose of nostalgia into my veins. That is exactly how my dad tells stories about comics.
Feels like Grandpa Simpson from 'The Simpsons' telling a story about Batman.
Just wait padawan
I really appreciate you highlighting all the great stuff Neal Adams has done in the industry first, rather than being one of those people who are overly negative to drive clicks
It was super nice of him to mention the good work he has contributed to and even praised him for the art while constructively criticizing his writing.
honestly, this review makes Odyssey seem like a modernized silver-age comic. like the silver age, it's not that good when taken unironically, but when you look at it in a humorous PoV, it's comedic gold.
Kind of a reductive view of the silver-age.
@@767scarecrow Yeah but it's very hard to take those comics seriously when reading them as a grown up.
I'm with you. I was warned going in that the story was batshit crazy and I had a blast reading it. If i picked it up the shelf and was expecting a continuation of the feel of Dennis O'Neil's Batman, I'd have been pissed.
Obiwan Kenobi There is some good shit in the Silver age though, like The Night Gwen Stacy Died.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 but the good stuff is the exception, not the rule.
I once heard someone describe this as “The Room” of comic books
Sounds about right
It’s fucking great
Yeah, I can see that
A lot of Batman's dialogue does lend itself very well to being read in Tommy Wiseau's voice.
I bought the trade expecting a story like those he and Dennis O’Neil were famous for.
What I got was simultaneously far worse and somehow amazing. Like a less mean spirited and more batshit All-Star Batman and Robin.
Actually they are a bit similar in a weird sense: They’re both Batman stories with bad writing but pretty good art for the most part. ASBAR is definitely more mean spirited than odyssey
12:57 looks like it came straight from all star haha
Jason Garrett ive never heard someone describe asbr as “mean spirited” before. that being said, it is definitely the most fucking apt description of asbr ive ever heard.
Well, at least All star Batman & Robin took place in a different continuity, so the fact that Batman acts like a psychopath is explainable, it' s just another interpretation of the character. Batman Odyssey however is set in the main continuity, thus it makes no sense
@@albertoorani5427 Batman Odyssey is outside of continuity
You have made my weeks with your "Comic Țropes." I'm in hospice care with end stage liver failure and your analysis helps me keep going. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
@Trsum_ uh, im afraid hospice is not the same as hospital
he helps me get through work but ur story’s better
fly high jeff.
I really hope you're not gone Jeff
Rest easy Jeff
It legit feels like every page of this had a different writer. Also everyone’s face in this reminds me of those 125% facial reaction images.
"A comic book is only as good as a writer who is sincerely talented and tries hard makes it. And an artist who is very talented and tries hard can make it. That's how good it can be" --Neal Adams
Oh hi! You caught me loving the hell out of these intros
Except the one with the faux poop.
Beat me to it haha
@@anniatole Lol.
I'm growing increasingly fascinated with the downward spiral
Speaking of intros, let’s talk about this amazing Segway
I love when generic terms are used for villian names, like "sensei". That can range from a preschool teacher to a college professor, to a medical surgeon.
I'm just wondering why Clark Kent would need a bandaid on his hand.
It strikes me as totally something he would do to pretend to get his hand cut. Kind of like an insurance measure, just in case anybody was getting suspicious of the resemblance and was wondering if he had impenetrable skin.
Someone clogged a Daily Planet john by trying to flush a chuck of Kryptonite down. Poor Clark ended up having to pull it out by hand.
Clark just thinks it looks cool.
Because even kryptonians get boo-boos
@@Scandal262 Under yellow sunlight, he has rapid healing.
I think the clue to understanding (so to speak) this series is the title, "Odyssey." I think it is meant reflect and reference several things that could be considered an odyssey. The first being the poetic epic, The Odyssey. The second being Batman's own journey, and the third being Neal Adams' own journey at DC. Themes in The Odyssey are Wandering, returning, friendship, testing, and omens. I think Batman Odyssey is filled with these elements as well. Deadman seems to act as a stand in for Athena who often disguises herself to aid Odysseus and his son Telemachus. Perhaps Thalia is a stand in for the goddess Calypso? There is a scene in the Odyssey where Odysseus is exhausted and collapsed into a sleep, just like Batman. I think, there is even a flashback within a flashback while Odysseus is telling the various stories of his perils to the Phaeacians. This kind of reminds me of Batman telling his various stories to Clatk Kent. Ther is a scene where a disguised Odysseus tells one if his servants, Eumaeus, a fictitious story about himself. I feel like, this what Batman is actually doing with Clark. That's why the story makes no sense. There are true elements in the story like the fact that many of these characters are real. But the events are meant to mislead Clark, just like Eumaeus. Anyway, just a thought. Oh, BTW, hollow earth theory and expanding earth theory are not necessarily the same thing.
How does this Batman feel LESS serious than Adam West's Batman?
Because Adam West's Batman had some meaning and coherence.
@@edatthegovernance exactly
Adam West's Batman is the straight-man in an absurd universe, and he just rolls with it.
@@chrisossu2070 ah..
How come is it MORE funny than Adam West's Batman?
Bruce asking Alfred "who fingered you?" is hilarious both in and out of context
"The Batman comic about NOTHING" as George Costanza might say.
Its a no brainer but i love it
Rest in Peace, Neal Adams.
You know, I expected the payoff to be that Bruce Wayne was talking to a psychiatrist (probably Hugo Strange) and was himself locked up in Arkham with the whole story being some kind of delusion.
Gabreya Bradley yes because it would at least make a lick of sense
I actually wondered if it was some past life experiences, all jumbled up. Because of Darkseid taking Batman out during Final Crisis. Which I believe was at the same time 🤔
I always thought of Neal Adams as the first comic artist superstar. I was mesmerized as a little kid with his art work. My uncle growing up in the 70's had a bunch of his comics. He kept them into adulthood and I got my hands on them when I was a kid. He let me read them to my hearts content and I was blow away by Neal Adams art!
Did he just have a load of unused pages hanging around that he decided to stitch together into one story or something?
"Oh hi! You caught me giving myself second degree burns"
Speaking of burns, let's rip into this absurd comic that makes no sense!
DC: I see you finished the first draft.
Neil Adams: What's a first draft?
This story seemed to be entirely made of Mad Libs or maybe it was randomly generated.
I've published a randomly generated comic book, that made more sense than that story, lol!
@Darla Lathan Really? What's the name of it?
You might be onto something there - I couldn't help thinking that this looked for all the world like maybe a pile of artwork made for a handful of stories that were commissioned but never finished, which were then stitched together with a framing device and new text to make a "complete story" out of the disparate bits and pieces. The artist's evident love of experimentation suggests he did it just to see if he could, and also as a showcase for a couple other experimental ideas (like maybe that hollow-earth storyline).
I know there's a writing exercise where writers take turns adding lines to a story. It makes me wonder if Adams did that with someone and they were just hardcore trolling him.
I get the feeling this is a "here, hold my beer" story. Now the real scoop would be finding the other half of that conversation and what was said. I am sure Neal ended it, "yeah, and I'll get them to publish it too..."
I love Neal Adams but this is just way too crazy for me. Maybe, he just became tired of typical stories and just decided to a comic based on the concept of WTF.
Finally, someone has discovered its main theme.
From what I’ve read, he’s just not a very good writer, but I’m still new to comics, so I very well could be wrong, but from what I’ve gathered, he’s much more of drawing guy, and he just went off the cuff
The Flying Graysons being killed by the League of Assassins is a huge retcon, as this was 2010 and at this point Dick has long ago caught Tony Zucco who really killed them.
This nonsensical insanity is brilliant. I would probably not like to read it but this video is fun.
I laughed tears throughout your presentation of this comic. This is amazing
I've never been a comics guy, but my first exposure to Neal Adams was on early TH-cam when he posted a bunch of videos from his "documentary" promoting his theory that plate tectonics are a lie and the earth is expanding. Skeptic youtubers had a field day with him.
It's kinda hilarious that he wrote it into a comic now.
I just have to laugh my ass off at the representation of the supposedly spaniard "El Maníaco". Literally nobody here in Spain would say something like "Ay, mi hermano" WTF Neal Adams hahahahahah
Greetings from Madrid!
I’m assuming that he’s more familiar with Mexican Spanish, and figured that people spoke the same in Spain? I don’t speak Spanish, but Americans tend to be more familiar with New World dialects of languages, aside from maybe French, depending on where they live
Ruben Blades? The Panamanian actor/singer? What a strange, strange guest appearance.
Actor/singer and coldblooded killer!
Funny 😄 that the guy doing this podcast/Whatever also seems to not have a clue as to who the legendary Singer/actor is. Lol 😂 I'm pretty sure that was a Neal Adams inside joke.
I genuinely understand the plot of Finnegans Wake more concretely than I do this comic.
This is not a joke, I could explain what happens in Finnegans Wake more accurately and easily than I could this comic. I’ve both read this run and watched this video TWICE and I STILL don’t understand what happened in this story lol
Ruben Blades , famous salsa singer from the 80's
he plays Daniel Salazar in Fear the walking Dead
Based on the many contributions by Neal Adams, let's give him an Mulligan on this disastrous series and pretend it never happened.
important artifact of Batman history and also completely insane. its like half the reason i bought the Neal Adams omnibus
I dunno, maybe it's best to remember it because it taught us some important things about Neal Adams (he can't write, and he's a crackpot who really believes that the Earth is hollow and expanding.)
@@billvolk4236 Couldn't care less what he believed, he was a pioneer of creator's rights in the industry. Nothing can take that or his brilliant artistic talents away. Being creatively weird is wonderful and interesting, not something to shun. The important thing this teaches us is that lots of superhero comics readers are conservative and boring.
It’s been uploaded for 45 seconds and I already love it
Seconded
Thirded
Forthd'ed?
Forded
Yup
Chris I absolutely love your deep dives in to subjects I have no idea existed. You are one of the most talented content creators on TH-cam. You transcend the subject you are discussing to make it easy for people like me who know nothing about comics to be incredibly entertained.
Adams excuse for drawing whatever he wants....just add storyline later.
*Batman gets shot in the one part of his body not covered by his suit*
Batman: But I survived because of my bulletproof suit!
Oh man. You left out the best part! In the panel when we see Bruce's amazing reaction to Alfred's revelation, the first word balloon that's coming out of his mouth is the calm phrase "What about it'?", so we can assume this is actually Bruce Wayne's totally chill face.
I'm in agreement: Neal Adams has always been a great artist, although his art has suffered in the past several years, due to age. But he's still head and shoulders above most artists. But, as a writer, he's in the class of Jack Kirby. Kirby is great in art, not so much, in terms of writing.
Neal Adams dialogue reminds me of another talent who thought himself a writer as well. That talent is Todd MacFarlane. Both prolific artists but terrible writers. Stick to what you know best.
Spawn was a hit though
@@xyzz8722 that doesn't mean anything. Spawn was a hit because the character and concept of Spawn is really cool and also because it was Image's flagship title.
Yes do not ever branch out. Tf you on about
FYI: The official term for this expanding earth theory is... the expanding earth theory.
ABsolutely love Neal as an artist and champion of creator rights but yeah... that part's wild
I had a hard time following the story, and that was with you explaining it to me. 🤔
What story?
@@ridhosamudro2199 hahaha, good one.
Don't feel bad: no one understands it.
Wh!..wh!!....WHAT??! 😂🤣
It’s about Batman killing. Will he or won’t he kill the Sensei? We open on the lesson he learned about guns on the train, one of the two rules that define the modern interpretations of Batman. The other lesson is “nobody dies,” and that’s what this book is about. The mint serves to set up a conflict. Batman becomes so overwhelmed with anger when a little girl gets shot that he nearly crosses a line. The conflict of the book is “does/will/can Batman kill?”
Chris didn’t cover some of this, but essentially Batman discovers that Ras al Ghul is in control of his life much more than he thought. He learns this in a few ways.
When Deadman is there in Joker’s body telling Batman he’s chasing clowns, we are learning with Batman that Ras has assigned Doctor Slattern/Trigger to release the Rogue’s Gallery from the asylum at specific intervals to distract Batman from his machinations in the Underworld. This is meant to explain why he never knew it existed. But Ras’ son has usurped him and is extremely dangerous. This means Batman doesn’t know if he can trust Ras or Talia, but they have a common enemy in The Sensei, a much more devastating force.
Another connection they draw is the one between Deadman and Robin. Chris is wrong about just one thing as far as I can tell. The League of Assassins doesn’t require you to kill trapeze artists. That was the one test for this one person that one time. Either Deadman or Robin’s parents were the practice run, and the other death was the real exam. I’ll have to find my copy to remember the exact details of why you would need to practice an assassination.
But this gives him an enemy in The Sensei. This whole book, Ras is pressuring Batman to kill The Sensei. Unlike Ras, The Sensei is a psychopath with ambitions so deep and strident that Ras has refused to give him Lazarus potion for decades in the hopes it would make him weak, and yet The Sensei is still a lumber master of the martial arts to the point that he can deflect a missile with one hand (that really happens in the book).
Aquaman’s appearance is another challenge to Batman’s ethic, stating that he should be comfortable with killing. Many points of view surrounding the topic are seen, including the scene where Robin appears to explode. Chris never explained that either. It was essentially a special device Robin wore in his outfit that allowed him to perform a high jump propelled by a burst, which gave the appearance of death. Batman seems unfazed by this because he knows Robin isn’t dead, but until the reader and other characters know that, he is challenged on his glibness towards death.
So when Batman forms a posse and heads into the Underworld he sees how chaotic it has become, and we see Batman join the rebellion against The Sensei’s forces. They meet on the battlefield and they agree that they will fight under Arkham. The strangeness of the underworld accentuates the alien territory Batman finds himself in of having agreed to kill somebody. But as time goes on, he gets the hang of the place in the same way that he comes to terms with the charge to the point that by the end he’s riding a pteranodon with ease (personally I think it should have been a giant bat).
We watch as they fight and the whole time this audience of his villains, Ras, Talia, Deadman, Robin, Alfred, and maybe more are commenting on whether Batman is going to kill The Sensei and why. When he finally does it, he satisfies Ras, and frightens the villains, which is meant to in some small way thwart Ras’ scheduled release of criminals mattering. At this point, Robin is disappointed in Batman. We only learn later that when they met on the battlefield they had a secret telepathic conversation where they agreed that Batman wouldn’t kill The Sensei but would instead revert him to a baby, which was all The Sensei wanted in the first place.
So Batman makes a declarative statement at the end as he reveals to Robin that he will always do everything in his power not to kill somebody. And then we discover that the whole story was being dictated to Superman, who says he’ll get the Pulitzer for Journalism and flies away. Maybe it’s unbelievable but in the world of superheroes where random thugs can drink various serums and become planty or icy or Bane-y or crazy or babies, maybe it would win a Pulitzer.
I love Batman Odyssey, it's like The Room of Comics. Even his interviews are hilarious
Neal Adams was one of my childhood heroes; as a teenager I spent years trying to copy his style, and - when I grew up and learned about his activities for creators' rights - he became a real hero to me. His classic work (mainly with top-notch inkers, such as Dick Giordano and Tom Palmer) still holds up today as some of the best in comics history. That being said, his art here is far below par - very rushed, very exaggerated poses and facial contortions, very weak female figures (the few of them there are in this massive tome). And the storytelling - oh, boy. Ooooh, boy. Let's just say he makes late-era Frank Miller look like Alan Moore...All-in-all: not good. Bad. Very bad. [imagine finger wagging] Very, very bad!
The video, though - the video was great!!!
I'm with U on his art being very sub-par here... I mean U could tell it's Neal but it's like the finished inks were done straight on the thumbnails. Not finished drawings..
I will NEVER shirk from my complaints about the writing on "Batman: Odyssey", but the artwork is NOTHING short of BREATHTAKING! Your body of work through the decades MORE than makes up for this hiccup. You were the absolutely BEST, your Batman was the version of my childhood and may you rest in peace.
This comic is so funny it's a work of art
If anything, the craziness and being ironically funny is a requirement for that. After all my time in art school, something like this doesnt even phase me anymore, but it does still give me a chuckle.
I love how genuinely terrified Batman's rogue's gallery look at Batman brutally shooting a guy to dead.
>He's a very stable genius.
I understood that reference.
You never have to worry about the amount of content that you produce. It's always quality and once a week is a real treat. Thank you very much!
21:52 "Kirk... Kirk... What the hell?"
Yup, that's some quality Batman dialogue, right there
24:15
batman: "whut?"
Hi Comictropes, I like it when you are a little bit mean spirited, even if it's not that mean. These episodes where you take the piss out of goofy comics are some of my favorites.
Yeah, I tend to like videos like that too.
I always felt like Neal was watching too much Seinfeld when he wrote this...
I knew his work in deeper detail thanks to ComicTropes, and the man just became my hero.
What he did for original authors to be compensated,
going freelance on the big two with his real name,
and his incredibly prolific career as an artist, no small feats at all.
Opinions may vary about late work of a man approaching 80 years-old,
but no doubt Neal Adams has been both The Brave and The Bold of comic books history.
Nothing but deep, profound respect.
The episodes you've been doing lately are so awesome and well-done. I watch a ton of TH-camrs and you're definitely my favorite as far as comicbook related content goes! Thank you so much for all the hard work
I love how Chris spilled scolding tea all over himself just for the meme, much respect
Neal is straight up trolling everyone with this comic. Its the "tails gets trolled" of cape comics.
RIP Neal Adams one of the all-time greats. 1941-2022 😞✨
And to think, you used to complain about policemen walking down the street saying "BIG DIX MUST BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE!" Bet you wish you had some of that storytelling clarity now.
Batman Odyssey, also known as "when Skateman doesn't adequately prepare you for how terrible a Neal Adams comic can be".
(Has there been a Comic Tropes on Skateman yet? There really should be. Vietnam vet turned roller derby star, who turns vigilante when his friend is murdered in a roller derby "accident". Believe it or not, it's worse than it sounds.)
Neal Adams introduced me to Batman in the 70 and 80. I love his style. It's the Batman I always see when I think of great Batman Comics
Adams, Aparo and Giordano are my top three Batman artists ever since my uncle gave me Batman: From the 30s to the 70s. I’ve never really been a fan of the huge ripped version of Batman. Or Superman, as Christopher Reeve just looked how I believed Superman would look if he were real. The guy’s an alien who converts solar energy for his strength, he doesn’t technically need to workout unless the sun blew up.
Jerry Robinson and Neal Adams will probably always be my two favorite Batman artists.
Aparo, Adams & Rogers are my favorite s.
Neal Adams Batman was what hooked me to comics at 8yrs old.
@@AC-gb7do I agree that Giordano was DC's best inker.
I loved this run so much! I talked to Neal at a Comic con. Weird dude
Batman riding a T-Rex. Somebody call Terry Gilliam.
This shit should have a DCEU movie adaptation.
Nah. That would be fun. China hates fun, apparently.
Ur intros are the only thing keeping me going everyday
i need some of what Neal was on
ok, thank you for this one. I excitedly picked up the hardcover of this story some 6 years ago, and I thought it was just me. I tried to read this book on no less than 3 occasions. and could never get a full grasp of Neal's ark here. so thank you for helping me to know it was not me, but him. great job Chris.
Chris out here getting third degree burns for our enjoyment. May the comic gods bless him.
*Next video: Chris sets his own head on fire to introduce a video on Ghost Rider*
Now I'm missing Continuity comics. :(
And now I'm laughing maniacally at the line "very stable genius"
This episode is a rollercoaster of emotions.
Now ya gotta do a video on Adams' crazy Superman book!
I think he also did one for Deadman too.
The pain you took to make the "spilling the tea" intro gets you a superlike instantly. :D :D :D
I hope it was homemade CGI.
rogério Miranda Same here. I mean, I do appreciate the comic value. But don’t want him to get really hurt.
Probably just water or something.
I met Neal in 2016 at a convention. He’s a really nice guy in person and is really passionate about being an artist and being an artist myself he gave me a lot of advice about how to improve as one. He also said that if he had an opportunity to do Batman: Odyssey he said he wouldn’t.
Another awesome vid, Chris! One of my all-time favourite Batman artists, but this one was a head scratcher. There has to be some onus on the editor who let this one go to print. The editor should have said something to Adams along the lines of "Neal, what the hell were you thinking?" Still love Adams' art. Thanks for posting!
I honestly believe this is the best Batman has ever been. Maybe my favorite comic run ever, and nothing can convince me otherwise. It's basically if Archer was Batman.
Dear God, it is. It's the most accurate description possible
THATS IT! I was saying this feel like if Batman was an adult swim show but it def feels like archer
But Archer has a story that you can actually follow…
You have bad taste btw
If anybody wants to read a spiritual sequel to this, check out Adam's The Coming of Supermen. It's not quite as insane, but it's still amazing, especially the ending.
He then also did a Deadman miniseries, and he's about to release a new Batman/Ra's al Ghul mini.
Darkseid and Lex's conversation In I think it's the second to last issue is a fucking gut buster of insanity.
the scene where superman turned a boom tube inside out
I took that out the library to read.
UTTER shite!!
Couldn't believe that this nonsense was allowed to find print! It made NO SENSE!?
Biggest pile of crap I've had the misfortune to scroll through since SOMEONE let John Cleese at Superman in True Brit! Wotta steamer..
I gotta say, with time, you have gotten progressively better. Nice presentations along with some fun comics humor. Keep up the excellent work.
Nice special effects to simulate scalding tea ...
At least, we hope it was simulated.
He's actually so dedicated to his intro bits he'll dump hot tea on himself.
First time viewer. Great historical content. Thanks for your objective approach. I will be subscribing.
I wish they still did panel style commercial art, it's pretty great.
Neal Adams has created quite the career for himself and I constantly thank him for creating Manbat and Sauron at DCC (my 2 faves)- yet must wonder if his writing flew wildly as they did.
Sauron is Marvel. But a ManBat vs Sauron crossover would be awesome!
I’ve never heard Ra’s al Ghul pronounced, “Raze” al Ghul, but what an incredibly bizarre story that I wasn’t aware of. I was a big Neal Adams fan growing up, Batman #251 still stands out, but his work seemed to go through a strange devolution later - kind of glad I skipped that particular period now. He’s still one of the all time greats despite his later efforts. Thanks for sharing this.
Wow, this is an incredibly bonkers Batman story! It's crazy that Neal Adams did this. While I've always loved him as an artist, I guess I never thought about his ability (or inability?) to write coherently. Of course, maybe it's all worth it just to see Batman ride a dinosaur, eh? ...or maybe not, ha!