Bambu X1C Active Motor Noise Cancellation Vs Creality K1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Does Active Motor Noise Cancellation really make that big of a difference? in this video, we're going to do all kinds of tests to see if we can find out.
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When I first watched the video from Bambu, I was really excited about the possibility of reducing motor noise. As I watched it a second time, I started to ask a few questions. The main one was, are they printing something? How close is the mic to the printer, was the sound adjusted in the video to accentuate the difference. I make videos, and all of these things are possible. I wasn't sure if they were making a real print, so that was one of my main questions, if we make a real 3d print, at fairly high speeds do we see such a big difference in sound, and what other sounds are in play here. Well we did a deep dive. This video and all of the testing took quite a bit more time that I was expecting, and I think we ended up with some interesting results.
Since we were already testing, I wanted to compare against the Creality K1. I know that when I record audio, I cannot have either printer running to avoid background noises, so I didn't think they were too much different in sound levels, but that wasn't exactly true, I just wasn't paying close attention to it.
Well I hope you enjoy the video and if you like Graphs, this is a good video for you. If you don't.... well I added some arrows and color and big letters, so I tried at least.
I hope you found this video helpful and interesting!
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NEW MIC (I bought this)
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amzn.to/3NBFvZe - Mag clip (Super handy, but a little pricy)
BAMBU PRINTERS
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CREALITY PRINTERS
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CREALITY HYPER PLA
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Bambu Video:
• Motor Noise Cancelling...
K1 Filler (Yes it does work as long as you use gasket)
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#bambu
#crealityk1
#3dprinting
I picked up a k1 a few weeks ago now and am overall very happy. I rooted mine right away though. And run full klipper. I found the printer loud but not as loud as some say it is. I also designed a door seal similar to the one you showed. It helped a lot ..especially for keeping the heat in. I also printed a top hat that also seals up the back. And printed a charcoal filter box for the rear fan. So my k1 is much quieter after the changes. I even can sleep with it in the same room.
Pretty dissapointed in the reduction of the noise on X1C. In Bambu's video it seemed like the high pitch noise is completely gone while in your video, it's still there, just a tiny bit quieter. 😞 Great video as always! :-)
I did some more testing today, but on very simple straight parts with no infill and they were slower, it seems to do quite a bit better with those. Yeah, it seems like slower speeds seemed to be impacted a lot more than faster, and non-simple parts still seem to be pretty loud, a bit of motor noise, but lots of other noises as well. Bushings, rubbing, and some fan noise from the hotend as well, which is funny I didn't realize it was so loud until I watched the video and had to think, why was the fan so loud if I made sure it was set to 40% or less.... different fan. I'm sure there will be some people who see good benefits from it, I didn't see much on this particular print it seems highly dependent on certain criteria being met.
I experienced drastically nicer sound. So much quieter now that I can print at 100% speed at night instead of having to use slow mode.
"I need a teleprompter." Need it! Make it!
Great video. Keep up the good work.
I could be doing so much more! I think I just need to bite-the-bullet and buy one. I wanted the Elgato Prompter, which looks amazing, but it's not going to be released for a few more months. So I'll just use the Cheapo version, it would save sooo much time.
On my P1S the difference is massive. No more high pitched sounds, everything is now like "muted", where motornoise would take over, where it is now basically fan noise with muted movements in the background. Really impressed by the update.
Did the P1S get the firmware update for noise cancellation as well?
@@chilodaone Yes, January 2024 OTA version01.05.00.00 - I had to double check on my printer if everything was okay because of how much it quieted down.
I put sheets of sound dampening on the inside. Very effective!
Pleas make a video of making the k1 seal better
I'll put it in the list! I have a few ideas, that lid is the toughest with the large opening, the door is already done and it works really well, credit to the designer on that, that was a very innovative solution to have no hardware and it fit so nice.
Yes please!!!
thanks for the really well done Content, i only have to mention from my perspective as an owner of a MAX, there is absolutely no noise in idal, when screen off you cant tell if its open. For me personally the fans are the most annying sound producing parts on it. there are several other issues with this printer,90% firmware i would say. Unless this, its a really great printer My K1Max drops in with up tu 67dB when printing PLA(+)
How can you do tests like this? you place the microphone on the left and much further from the side fan of the K1S. and for bamboo, place it on the right next to the main source of noise. It was worth fixing the buttonhole a meter from each printer, where the phone is and not dragging it on the table or on yourself.
Works really well, especially if you pay attention while running the calibration. Door open or closed it's much much quieter. About all I hear anymore is the chamber/aux fans. Will you hear some whine from time to time? Sure. Will be it be constant? No. It is very much quieter, have been happy watching tv or talking to wife with it in the same room.
Do you mind sharing the types of parts you print? I wouldn't mind seeing if I can duplicate your results. Today I printed two solid rails, just simple and it seemed quite a bit better than a high speed infill print. Door closed is a valid point, maybe calibration with the door closed would help, sometimes these things are sensitive to these, so that's something to try. I'll do that one tonight. There is def an improvement on the higher end, which I think is the most annoying of the sounds. It seems to be highly dependent on speed and whether the part has infill.
We're using differen't machines, I think that's all I can say. I've printed large helmet sections, lithophanes and their frames, and parts of different sizes, different infill. Really hear my fans more than travels. Still makes some noise, not as much as it did.
@@jayfc3 Yeah, I suppose if there isn't much infill on those types of prints and the walls will be slower. That's where I found this the most beneficial. The fans deficiently could use a review, especially that hot end fan, it's quite a bit louder than I expected. I agree that it is an improvement, just was expecting a bit more, I suppose I'll have to see if some of my other prints perform better.
I'd love to be able to record while the printers are running, but that's not likely unless they go to a completely different place, it's not likely to be quiet enough in any case.
Thanks for your thoughts.
My work X1C dropped around 5-6db which is pretty good. I joined the beta to try it on the P1P but haven't received it yet. I hope Creality can do something for the K1 Max. 😅
When did you join the beta? I signed up a couple hours ago after receiving a P1S. Might be too late to get accepted?
@@bradclooney69 I got accepted but in the description it says it's random on who gets beta updates or not 🤷
Great! But is it possible that different surfaces have different resonance frequencies, therefore making the ANC readings different on yours vs theirs?
It really is a whole different world thinking about how to address the different sounds a 3d printer is making, so I'll go with YES, I think anything is possible. PETG can be a bit squeaky, especially as you increase the nozzle diameter, as it runs over infill, it can be very loud.
My best guess is that they picked a model which made the motors sound as loud as possible and would have the biggest impact on the sound reduction. I should have tried their exact model and calculated the speed, but it was too late, I had already done the update. Maybe someone out there can try it and write a comment.
I wanted to test from the perspective of printing a real model because I had a feeling that we weren't getting the full picture.
Today I printed two rails from PETG, they were only 8mm x 8mm x 200, and they seemed very quiet, but there was no infill. I think that angle, speed and materials seem to play a big role. I'm happy to do more testing if anyone would like, we can always test different materials as well to see how loud they are.
For those of us who have a P1P, it seems like the best thing to do is to get that printer closed in. And if you can print with the door closed, it makes a huge difference.
@@NeedItMakeItme with an unenclosed Ender 5 S1 and no Klipper whatsoever…
Hey, we have to start somewhere, you should see what I started with, an ANET A8, these printers are leagues ahead, I should pull up out of the storage room and do a comparison one day, that would be hilarious.
I'm still waiting for someone to come out with a kit to upgrade existing printers. The frames of the printers themselves are the same, I suppose the issues would be that the hot end may not be able to handle the speed increase, but just the vibration compensation would be great to have.
Yeah, I did start with an Ender 3 clone, however I tinkered too much and now I am turning it into a PET bottle recycler that will recycle them into filament. But I said that I don't have Klipper installed since Klipper has Input Shaper which can solve some of that noise. @@NeedItMakeIt
Yes, it is extremely likely that the base that the printer is sitting on will affect how loud any resonant frequency is.
Place the whole thing into a cabinet. I use the cheap IKEA PLATSA cabinet as an enclosure. Since It´s in my office noise can be very annoying. You have many advantages of placing the thing in a cabinet. You gain additional space for filament dry box, air scrubber, filament storage, waste less space on the table tob, less noise etc.
That's actually a pretty good idea, enclose an enclosure, that's probably the best thing. Basically it's a room, but a very tiny room. I wonder if I could do that and be able to record in here while they're printing. It may be worth doing. Also the fumes when printing ABS would be contained and I suppose it could be vented outside without affecting my workspace temp too much as well. There are some enclosures that are printable on Kickstarted, fully customizable and modular, do you have any thoughts about these?
@@NeedItMakeIt "...Basically it's a room, but a very tiny room...." Yes exactly.
"... I wonder if..." Try is out, shouldn´t bee to difficult. You surely have some kind of cabinet somewhere, just clean it out and put the printer in there.
"....Also the fumes when printing..." This part might be more tricky, it depends on your setup. If you can vent directly outside, this is awesome and you are right BUT in my situation I can´t, so presumably you would want to still print PLA without venting outside you need to scrub the air and cool it off until you recycle it back to the chamber. It´s still doable. For other materials it´s perfect, since as you said you won´t decrease the temp too much before drawing in fresh air. You can also have an air exchanger so the new fresh cold air is heated up by the stail air on it´s way out. Basically a tube in a tube kind of thing, I hope you know what I mean.
"... There are some enclosures that are printable on Kickstarted, fully customizable and modular, do you have any thoughts about these?..."
Not really, I would rather DIY my own out of plywood, PC panels and such instead. It´s less plastic, less time cheap etc. It´s inside a closed anyways, so it does not even be looking good. I don´t know why people print an enclosure to be honest. But if you want to print one sure why not, I am just the wrong person to give you any help on that.
If you have a simple wooden router you can use 40x40mm wooden profiles and cut a channel length wise then slot in polycarbonate sheets and use some silicone calcing to secure in place or supergule in stead. This way you can finish the whole encsolure thing is IDK 1h or so.
For my first enclosure I used the infamous IKEA LACK table, stacked 3 of them so I have a small lower compartment for electronics, filaments, cables and such and a bigger upper comparment. I then slotted the legs which I have figed together lenghwise and slotted in the PC sheets. Also added some light ( cut out some of the carboards insides and places milky foil over the pc sheets with led´s hid the wires etc.)
So do it like that but ditch the LACK TABLES and use normal wood. I didn´t have a rounter back then so I used a box cutter instead, I think my only tool was a Drill at that point lol
what are you using for doors in your Ikea enclosure?
@@povilaslondon I have a LACK enclosure where I made the door myself. The side panels are simply sheets of PC which are slid into cutouts I made into the legs.
The door is the same PC panel but I cut aluminium profiles to length and glued them to the panel, added some hinges and a door knob.
The PLATSA cabinets come with doors, you can add them to the cabinet like usual at IKEA. They had a see through version which they don´t sell anymore in my region sadly. The PLATSA cabinet is a lot less DIY, it´s just a cabinet made for children rooms, for clothing and so on. They are very bad quality since they are made out of carboard basically however the are hceap and work.
Don´t forget a slab of concrete unterneith the printer paired with some thick rubber feed to isolate the printer.
Have nothing to say. Jut commenting because I want this channel to be the biggest ever. Rs
Nice, I really appreciate that!
With my K1 Max, the printing is not loud, it is the fans that are loud. At this time, without replacing them, I do not think there is any way around the noise level. Nice review.
Yeah, it would be nice if these manufacturers had better fan options, it seems that they include some of the cheapest and loudest fans. Is it that hard to design the blade to be a bit quieter? I'm sure it's not just that simple, speed/blade design. Sound at different speeds and then airflow. Noctua seems to have done a pretty good job, I wonder if they can't adopt some of those ideas.
Updated mine today and at some point was. Is the printer printing? It was, way quitter than yesterday, but yes the fans blowing are the big howlers on this machine and I don't think they can use any software to reduce that, except for running the fans at lower speeds. They would have to change the fans for less noisy ones.
Put 128 microsteps on all axis for K1, and it will get a lot quieter without skipping steps. I own a K1 and its motors (except Z) are very quiet, they don't disturb at all.
Ah, interesting, I'll have to do a bit of research on this, thanks for the tip!
@@NeedItMakeIt Tested today with 256 microsteps, and it works! So you can put 256 for all axis.
I can tell that for me this firmware did night and day difference. My problem was that high pitched noised was proliferating trough the wall in my kid room. After the update this is no longer the case and I can print overnight.
That's good to hear, it seems that for some people, it makes a bigger difference than others, it could be the type of print, whether there are walls, the print speed, the material. I was printing last night, and that particular print had one very high pitch motor noise, but the rest of the motor noises were pretty faint, there seems to be a certain range that it works best in. PETG seems to be pretty noisy for other noises, the nozzle rubbing on infill and as it takes tight corners for walls. That's great info.
I didn't go into this wanting to debunk anything, I just wanted to see what it would do on a real print and if it could be quiet enough to record in my shop... that's not the case still unfortunately, but it's alright, there is still an improvement.
Going back and forth between the printing at 8:30 and at 10:30, it sounds quite a bit quieter with much reduced motor noise
Nice video! Pleas make a video of making the k1 seal better.
Can you try and seal the K1 and do sound test again? That would be awesome
You mounted the reel wrong in the K1.
The line goes over the top it unspools counter clockwise from the right up to the left. 😅
Nice, okay, I'll give that a try to see if that helps!
Great video, what app were you using?
Hey, thanks. I was using Decibel Meter, but I ended up with Decibel X in the end, it was better for the video, and it also allowed me to export the last 30 seconds of the testing in Wav, Pdf as well so I could have something for reference later on. I was also screen recoding, so it wasn't crucial, but nice to have as a backup just incase.
Why was your extruder getting caught on the model? I have printed 100's of hours using the X1 Carbon and I have never seen that
It seems to related to the material, I find that PETG is pretty loud, especially if you print with an infill that passes over itself. Printing with Gyroid would be a better choice if you still want something strong. ABS and PLA don't seem to make the same noises.
I've been printing a lot more and I still have quite a few motor sounds, but they're different and in some speed ranges you can barely hear it but at some speeds, it's kicking out a high-pitch. I'd love to do something about that fan on the hot end though, it's pretty loud with the door open..
Which material do you print with?
@@NeedItMakeIt I agree the fans are way too loud with the door open. I mostly print with PLA and PLA-CF. Parts usually PLA, figures CF.
K1 is a screaming value once it’s rooted and klipper updated and using OrcaSlicer.
So you are saying that you refuse to pay for the Skid of invisible filament (no spools) that I had delivered to your house today?
yeah a Fedex came by, said are you going to pay customs on this skid, and I said, there's nothing there, no way. Flip I'll have to contact them! Ha, yeah, I thought it was a little strange that they weren't showing if there was a real print going, my guess is no, but the angle isn't high enough to tell for certain. Still invisible filament would be great. Future devel. project.
@@NeedItMakeIt so I can’t use the invisible tax loophole? Cheers!
@@MitchGurowitz Only if you're invisible, it's the loop loop hole... hole?
Кстати, на самом деле принтак тише стал печатать после новой прошивки и калибровок.
Sorry but I call BS, I have a K1 Max and an X1C and there is a SIGNIFICANT noise difference in the Bambu's favor.. like we're talking it's not even close.
the issue is not the motor noise. the fan noise is the problem, especialy on the K1 max
!
For sure, that was most surprising to me when I started the testing, I wasn't expecting so much to come out of both printers. If you can print with a closed printer and it is sealed up, I think that can go a long way. Last night I printed two PETG prints, high temp 270N no fans at all, not even the cabin fan, and they turned out fairly nice, they have supports, I'd imagine they're not going to be easy to remove. One more print to go and then I can check it out. Printing with no fans and using PLA probably won't work well and may have too much heat creep. I don't mind experimenting a bit with this.
Alternatively we can swap out the fans, but I don't know enough about quiet fans aside from Noctua and they are 3 and 4 pin, these Creality fans are only 2 pin.
@@NeedItMakeIt ture, swaping the fan could work will make an improvment, concidering the K1 is out for few months only im sure the community will crack that one up very quicly :)
@@NeedItMakeIt also noctua fans are 3 or 4 pins, but actualy you can find the pin out on their website and all you need is + and -
ANC is a political party in my country south africa😂😂 they are horrible
Very good video
LOL, oops, I should be more careful. ANC, yeah, doesn't sound too good. Thanks for the comment, I really appreciate it!
Чет я не понял зачем делать калибровку с напечатанной моделью на столе? 0_о
Просто человеческий фактор? Печально, конечно, что так произошло.
Дальше глянул - действительно просто отвлекся :(
It not noise canceling it called stealthchop this has been a feature in many printers that use tmc drivers.
I can't say I know enough about it, curious if this has been a feature for years why not have it already integrated and why is it made to be such a big deal? It seems to me that the use of small motors running at higher may be the source of the higher pitch. Thoughts?
Stealth chop is how I cook late at night
😂@@cwill6491
I guess I can't link thing on here but stealthchop has been around since 2015, on prusa slicer it called stealth mode. This was thanks to the TMC drivers.
@@elchavode6479 Bambu is doing it in a different way than stealthchop. The implementation is briefly discussed in the official website of the A1 series printer.
Hi friend, see if you can help me.
I bought the K1 Max 3 days ago, when turning on the shield for the first time there was a humming noise from the power supply (coil whine), and when printing and moving the motors, mainly in the X and Y shield, this humming sound that only stops when deactivating the motors via the display, when printing I also shield this humming noise, it is very reminiscent of the noise of old printers that did not have silent drivers, when I leave the rotations low on the side and rear fans I hear a humming noise too, can you help me? Could it be a defect in the power supply, in the stepper motors or perhaps in the board or drivers, I recorded this video to send to Creality, if you can help me, thank you!
th-cam.com/users/shorts3W6d7FUc9sA
Yo.
Make an amazing affiliate account, then link all of the tools you use.
For example, that deburr tool.
I do this on my actual channel and make more money in links than on the videos. 😅😅😅
Link to deburr tool that cleans up the edges...? 😅😅😅
Hey Avacado!
Yeah that's a good idea for sure, I don't mind to do this for any tools that I use and I'm happy with. I'm hesitant to do any advertising really, but I guess its too late for that, showing products on a video is a form of an advert. I have a video coming up that wanted to make about this Mic, I wanted to share my experience with it because it has made such a difference, I still have a little bit of echo, but so much less and I think it can help a lot of people struggling like I had been. That's one where I purchased the product and am super happy with it. So I suppose I should like that in the description!
@@NeedItMakeIt using a product, liking it, and recommending the product is different than a paid advertisement from a brand. Know what I mean?
It is, but I still don't like to do it, It's something that's a me issue. I'm the opposite of a salesperson...anti-salesperson. I've taken your advice and linked the Mic which I bought and I really like, saving hours a video and giving clear audio that doesn't require much of anything done to it, is soooooo nice. Can you send me your channel info BTW? I'm not sure if I subbed to the right channel.
This is in no way a meaningful test.
Every printer has to be in exactly the same place on the table and the microphone has to be placed in the middle and in front of the printer for every test! The different positions of the printer on the table alone distort the result, as does the position of the microphone between the printers.
Thanks for your comments Nico, sure the distance is probably off by 1/4 of an inch one way or another. And I'm using an Iphone an an app to measure. I can appeciate where you're coming from, but you're comment is quite severe. It is in many ways a far more meaningful test than one quick 10 second shot from a supplier. Is it extensive testing, not by any means, but it is real testing performed by a real person with real results that I can hear and so can everyone else watching the video. Though you cannot see it, it took 40 hours of work to put all of this together into something that.. is in NO WAY Meaningful. So I guess you're right. Sometimes it's a good idea to ask questions before making statements.
LOL I Subbed right away after watching this you did a GREAT JOB and Thank you for showing the diff between a marketing video and a Real person testing in Real environment as best they can with the tools they have. Bravo@@NeedItMakeIt
@@AlbertoMartinez765 Thanks! That my friend is exactly what I'm shooting for. I don't want to be sponsored, I don't want to get anything free, I want to try to do my best with what I have to see if we can get a little more information to make better decisions. I'm sure that under the exact correct circumstances, there is a bigger benefit to this, but in my testing of these parts... Which are now mounted on my wall and getting good use, I didn't see a big difference. I'm always happy to do more testing and if I can get a bit more traction I can buy some better equipment to see more accurate results. This one took a lot longer than I expected, actually every video takes longer, there is always far more to it as you dive in.
I am still left fairly satisfied that by closing the door on the Bambu printer we get such a big reduction, and I think we can get close to that with the Creality with a few simple adjustments too. For anyone with an open printer like a P1P, an enclosure will go a long way to making them quiet(er).
When I started testing I thought I was going to see the same results, or pretty close. I should have in hindsight tried to re-produce their 'test' first. In my head I was in the mindset that they were not making a real print and that I could not re-produce that.
@@NeedItMakeItI think Nico is correct. I don't think setting the mic on the table is the best for a test like this, you're going to get noise transmitted through the table and into the mic. The aux fans, doors, and stepper motors are on the side of the printer, so having the mic to the right of one printer and to the left of the other invalidates this test. Just look at 4:28, the K1 door is blocking the noise from the mic, whereas at 5:23 the X1 door is reflecting noise towards the mic.
@@mikedixonphoto Yup, I don't disagree, the exact position and the sound bounding off of hard surfaces are all valid points. This is why I went through and tested again with the phone moved to the other side, as I showed in the video to confirm whether this was indeed a problem. I don't claim that my testing was perfectly accurate, however it is quite telling as the main point of the testing is to show that unless you meet exact criteria the noise cancellation feature doesn't make much of a difference. I'm happy to continue to test and through your feedback I can always do follow ups. As I work in my shop with my printers going, I can certainly tell that there is a difference in the sounds the motors make, however it is not that impactful when making real parts and not printing with invisible filament.
If you could, provide me with what the ideal setup would look like and I can add a re-test to the schedule. Maybe by then I can afford a different mic as well.
Often times when making videos like these, it's hard to show every single test performed, it's not so simple to pare down over 10 hours of video into 15 minutes and make it interesting.
you can activate stealthchop by changing one line in printer.cfg for k1 series... but it has drawbacks. just install igus plastic bushings into k1 (1-2$ each) to kill vibrations. metal on metal movement system is a bad idea for 3d printers, even if it's a perfect fit, it will vibrate. to kill vfa install quality motors
Yeah, seems something is a brewing. I don't know about the original creators of Klipper, when something is OS who would sue? I spend too much time in my workshop and don't see the sunlight some days so forgive my naivety.
I was thinking Igus bushings and CF rods for the K1, I think that would go a long way. I need to seal that lid up and deal with that cabin fan and then we're going to be in good shape with the K1, I have a few ideas to get those done.