Is it OK to feed Lionfish to sharks and reef fish?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- The invasive Lionfish has destroyed the entire Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico, the entire coast of Florida and more. Attempts to control the Lionfish are made to help save the coral reefs. But what is acceptable and what is not? It is a controversial subject that has many sides. What are your thoughts on controlling the Lionfish population?
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oceansunknown....
#shark #lionfish #marineconservation
I am an avid lionfish hunter myself. But I once took a sub to 200 meters. The first 40 meters of depth (scuba diving depths) there were almost no lionfish. From 40-100 meters they were everywhere, giants. What we catch as scuba divers at allowed depths, is just literally the tip of the iceberg. Sadly. I even saw lionfish swim in total darkness at 150 meters...
Wow no kidding?! Thats crazy. I have heard they are deep, but 150 meters? Wow. Where was this? Thanks for sharing.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Curacao, southern Caribbean
Probably a few irresponsible pet owners are responsible for this travesty. Pterois volitans are popular for marine home aquariums but they do get big and have voracious appetites. Likely some fish keeper who no longer liked seeing his other fish eaten or otherwise decided the lion was no longer wanted turned it lose in the sea rather than rehoming or just euthanizing it.
The problem is the south pacific where lions like Pterois volitans are native is a tropical ocean, but so is the American southeastern seaboard and Caribbean so they can easily survive in those water. In their native range there are some specialist Lionfish eaters but in the Caribbean there are not any so their numbers grow unchecked. One rule of the sea is a fish that will fit in another fishes mouth will find its way there so having an unchecked population of relatively large suction feeding predators is very bad for the reef ecosystems.
If your trying to "train" species to predate on Lionfish I would suggest taking scissors with you to snip their dorsal spines to make them more palatable. Let them get the taste and conditioning to prey on Lionfish and they will eventually adapt to contend with the venomous spines.
@@larrybremer4930 While the aquarium theory seems very plausible, it is way more likely the lionfish came to this side of the earth through the ballast tanks of large commercial vessels, with Miami harbor being a major hub. When these large vessels are empty, they fill their ballast tanks with seawater (around 50 olympic pools at a time) to keep the vessel stable during its voyage. It's way more likely that this is the way the lionfish (and probably many other species) got distributed to this side of the planet.
Yeah I have also heard that theory about the ballast tanks. Its really hard to tell huh? Whatever it was, the Caribbean Sea will never be the same.
observing the behavior of the triggerfish it looked like it was targeting the head and avoiding the backside of the lionfish, this suggest this triggerfish has experience and knows what it's doing and has eaten lionfish before.
Good point. The triggerfish is used to eating things like sea urchins that have spines. It probably has learned what to do.
Yeah it looked like it knew what it was doing. Multiple times could have bitten back end and circled to face.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte what the triggerfish was doing to the lionfish reminds me of Fishers, the second largest mustelid in North America after wolverines. Fishers are the only specialist feeding on porcupines, and attack very carefully around the spines.
It strikes me that if you could raise Triggerfish in a large facility, letting them observe other triggerfish feasting off of lionfish (while finding some way to work around the fact that trigger fish are pretty territorial) - a triggerfish eating lionfish as it's primary diet, and then it's young eventually observing the behavior - might kill a LOT more Lionfish than the typical diver in the long run.
We NEED that triggerfish to reproduce and teach its young these practices.
Yes, even the simplest of fish can teach the next generation hunting stratagems and the like. And the triggerfish is NOT so simple of a fish. It’s actually fairly intelligent-by such standards.
it is associating the spines of the lion fish with the spines on an urchin. It probably thought you were reeling in an urchin and it moved in for the steal
As nothingbutstatic said, triggerfish commonly eat urchins by breaking off spines and flipping them over, including the venomous long-spined urchin Diadema. Resemblance of lion fish to urchins probably helps. Not sure if the other fish are ok with the spines. It would be great to know if particular sharks and groupers will come back at eat them again after eating one. My opinion: keep feeding lion fish to other predators.
That is a really interesting point with the sea urchins!
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte The toxin of a long-spined sea urchin is mild compared to that of the Lionfish, according to Google.
@@markjames1260 Oh that is good to know. Thank you for sharing this info with us!
Training local fauna to prey on lionfish is a very smart and sustainable move. We will not always be down there to hunt and remove them. We have limited time and resources, and can only sweep so far per dive. Putting lionfish in the menu is working, but will take more time and change in consumer behavior. Explore all the avenues that we can, because being passive/reactive about this only gives lionfish more opportunities to penetrate deeper and take over.
Good point, thanks for sharing!
Plus, animals are smart, even fish. It’s very common for wildlife to learn how to distinguish a hunter from a normal person, if dumb ducks can do it, I’m sure fish can as well.
Except it hasn't worked. This has been tried for almost two decades. They'll eat speared fish but not hunt on their own.
Normally it would probably be bad to make wild animals associate humans with free food, but in this case it serves to only feed them lion fish that they would eventually learn to hunt and eat on their own. A good way to get more help in curbing lionfish populations
Well said. Thank you for leaving this comment. Its also fun for divers to have the sharks swim up and around you. Its good for tourism and will help save the shark from being fished.
Bingo!
As long as they are not feeding sharks that pose a real risk of attacks on humans. We certainly dont want to train bulls and tigers to associate divers with a free lunch
@@larrybremer4930 ? if this were true than a shark that attacks one human would just continually do so. Theres not enough shark attacks concentrated in one area repeatedly to suggest that would be the case.
@@JFTB-i8y ANY animal, even very dumb species can be trained with a food reward and sharks are not "dumb". They are in fact highly intelligent as far as what we classically call "fish" are concerned and we know this because they can exhibit vast ranges of behavior based on their emotional state and analysis of a situation that shows they are not solely operating on instinct. The concern is not that a shark would be trained to consume humans as a food source, but that they would associate human presence with a food reward and that is absolutely a trainable behavior when given a sufficient number of repetitions + reward stimulus and one investigatory bite could be life altering to the unfortunate diver who gets bitten by a shark just looking for his free fish. Feed nurse sharks or other species that are generally unable to do much harm in a human attack but not the pelagic species that can remove entire limbs or disembowel a human with just an investigatory nibble.
The other fish can tell that the lionfish is injured and when something gets injured in the ocean, it’s basically food for everyone else
Yes that has a lot to do with it.
People downplay how smart these massive fish are. Yeah maybe not as smart as a mammal, but they absolutely communicate and observe foreign things in their environment. They normally dont go after them, not because they don't associate them with food but rather because it poses an unknown risk to potential predators who are much too picky to take the chance. Once fish get a taste for something they'll never forget it
Thank you for this comment. Well said.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte -He said what I said..only smarterer.
Teaching local species of fish to eat lionfish is the only way to get this problem under control imo.
Yep hopefully it works.
Agreed. It would have happened anyway. This just speeds up the learning process. I think some species of birds have recently learned on their own to eat Japanese beetles.
I think it has to include more than just teaching local fish, we also have to put them on our own menu. Otherwise the lion fish will keep exploding
@@randomname1251 Agree and they are supposedly good to eat too.
They taste fine ive just heard theyre annoying to prepare as most venomous fish are.@@stm1952
I Always thought hey ate lion fish. Had a trigger and lionfish in a tank once and the trigger ate the lion first picking off all the spines then eating it.
Oh wow!
How did you get a lionfish and a triggerfish in your tank
@@purple7056 I live in Canada, and it was quite a few years ago, but I just got it at a local mom and pops fish store at the time if I recall, nothing special. They used to sell snake heads too, until people started releasing those and they started also becoming invasive lol. Trigger fish aren't "too" hard to find, I still find picaso, clown, and undulated where I'm at. The queen in the video hard to find though. I've even come across a titan trigger once 4 or so years ago, but it was a trade - they also get big so I didn't purchase. The trigger are beautiful fish, hardy and pretty smart too.
@@christopherdsuza7531 that's very cool
Trigger fish, IIRC, deal with similar "thorny" customers, all the time. So, they know how deal with and consume prickly subjects.
The issue with other predators is they don't know be wary of way/direction they consume the Lionfish. (Note: that Grouper tried eat it from the side and thus went, "Yuck/Owww, Patooey!" With it. Eaten from the front, they have no issue that I've either seen or heard about?)
Good comment, thank you!
Thanks for the explanation. I thought some PETA person was concerned the sharks would forget how to hunt for themselves and end up on food stamps.
0:46 you can tell that fish was disappointed and judging that spearfisher
Yeah you can tell, pretty cool to see that.
😂😂😂😂😂👍
I find it so bizzare when saying 2017, followed by "back then"... In my head I'm like, that wasn't that doesn't feel like 7 years ago. Time is moving too fast.
Right? I was thinking the same thing when I put this together.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKorttesame
The thing is that in order to teach the predators how to hunt lionfish, you have to actually introduce them first. They won't know they're edible if you don't give the lionfish to them to taste.
Yes very true. We will see in the future what the outcome is on the reefs throughout the Caribbean sea.
They weren't debating about killing rats during a plague...
hahahaha
Scientists found it was gerbils, not rats...
Also, they targeted witches and cats... so... the irony is there 😅
@@TragoudistrosMPH poland avoided the plague, but they also kicked out a certain group of people
@@zm1786 scanning Wikipedia for a quick summary dates their Jewish pograms happening After the plague, so I'm not sure what you mean...
This is not controversial at all, the lionfish is an invasive species in the Atlantic ocean and can we get sharks, groupers, triggerfish or any other native predator to see them as food so much the better, because the lionfish is destroying the fry/small species of native coral fish at an alarming rate and fish are better and more efficient hunters both considering time, money than divers ofc it is good with the divers too but that is a losing battle since lionfish reproduce much faster than all of the professional divers put together.
Good comment, thanks for sharing!
It is never acceptable to feed an already dead prey to another animal in the food chain because it creates an artificial scenario. They tried this with sharks and realized the sharks weren't learning to hunt lion fish --they were learning to wait around spear fishers because the spear fishers tended to feed them lion fish. Animals are really, really good at learning to seek out the exact same scenario for food (wait around a fisherman until he gives you a lionfish) rather than learning an element of the scenario (eating the lion fish).
Yes thats the big issue. Did it teach the sharks to eat the lionfish, or only to associate divers with a free meal?
When he told the grouper at 0:47 it was too small I absolutely died XD
Yeah the larger grouper don't have much of a problem eating the Lionfish.
Those fish are ABSOLUTELY gorgeous. literally works of art I can’t believe their colors and just visually. They’re like artistic masterpieces. I hope these beautiful fish can thrive. thanks for educating on the ocean, so important not just to humanity, but so beautiful in and of themselves. I do hope these best for all those suffering due to this problem. again thank you to all those who are helping and educating. the world loves and thanks you all!!!
Thank you for this comment!
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte thank you for your reply 🙏 😊
May I ask: how come the poisonous needles/spines from the lionfish have NO effect on the bigger fish? Thank U.
1:46 it clearly had an effect on that fish
Maybe like a wasp or bee sting. Its hurts but its not deadly.
Larger fish and sharks can handle the venom in the spines.
I just assumed that triggerfish which eat sea urchins in wild would have no problem with lionfish that has even milder spines.
Makes sense
The Queen Trigger, my favorite aquarium pet I've ever had. They are voracious eaters. The one in this video is huge. Thanks so much for this video it's been a long time since I've seen one!
Are they difficult to keep alive in a tank? Do they show any aggressive behavior?
@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte I had mine a long time ago she was tiny the size of a quarter. I lost her after hurricane Andrew. We had no power for a long time. She would bite my finger and would not let go. So tiny yet so aggressive. She would eat everything I gave her, she especially loved shrimp. I've never forgotten that little beast. She had quite the personality. Some people say triggers are much like dogs.
WOW! Thats crazy. Thanks for sharing.
Not a young wife, but an "ol' wife"
That fish is enormous. How do you give it adequate space in captivity?
Seems sort of obvious that the Grouper which swallows prays whole, can't eat the spiny venomous Lionfish, while the triggerfish that feeds by biting off chunks with its teeth, can.
Yeah that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
But groupers in the Indo-Pacific eat lionfish. Maybe we should bring those groupers to the Atlantic/Caribbean?
@@teamakaruijapan1353 The big groupers in the Caribbean eat the Lionfish. They will actually show you where the lionfish is hiding.
Dude you’re like the underwater “I got candy in my van” man but for sharks, and somehow that’s a good (and hilarious) thing 😂😂😂😂
Hahahaha, thats funny!!!!
I saw another video the other day that showed where sharks in the given area were being fed lionfish by divers. As a result, the sharks learned to associate divers with food, whether they were spear fishing or not, and that lead to some very uncomfortable interactions between the divers and the sharks. In those areas, they said that divers weren't allowed to feed the sharks anymore.
Yes you are no longer allowed to feed the sharks. The sharks have associated divers with a free handout. Same with grouper and eels.
I feel like we wouldn't bat an eye if fish were taking the dead lionfish from another animal. I think as long as the predators aren't associating humans as food, or becoming dependent on humans for food, I don't see why anyone should worry. In the end if some of the higher level predators start associating the lionfish as a food source it will help the reefs in the long term. I don't normally advocate killing an animal for no reason and honestly it's not the lionfishes fault it is there, it's humans fault, but they do so much damage to the reef they can't be left alone. I feel bad for the thousands upon thousands of lionfish killed but it's less of a threat then to lose the entire reef's ecosystem.
Thank you for leaving this comment! Well said.
I just got basic PADI certified, and my first couple of dives were AMAZING! I’d really like to get lion fish certified and go on some hunting dives
Welcome to the dive club! Hope you have lots of fun dives ahead of you!
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte thanks! The dive instructor said it would be addicting, and I guess he was right! Can’t wait to dive again 😊
How do they eat it without the spines hurting them?
They eat it from the head apparently which pushes the spines forward away from the face. Lionfish try to face their back toward attackers. Perhaps for the fish, not humans, lionfish poison is not lethal but the fish are trying to avoid being stabbed by the spines?
I understand the reluctance by many to "encourage" spear fishing divers to feed the non-native Lionfish to various native fish species.
The worry here being behavioral alteration in the fish in the form of habituation.
Most wildlife scientists would discourage this activity because individual fish may then associate "food" to "diver," altering the fish's behaviour around other humans coming into that environment.
Loss of natural fear of humans may then result in injury or death at the hands of unscrupulous humans who would then bait habituated fish closer in for an easy kill (because humans just can't resist cheating).
I did have a concern that fish attempting to eat the lionfish might be accidentally injected by a venomous spine in the first attempts to take the Lionfish from the divers.
There is, as the narrator alludes, a learning curve for native species to learn how to successfully kill and then disarm non-native species like Lionfish.
My own observations with Great blue heron catching, repositioning, and breaking the venomous spines off Plecostemus before consuming the fish might be insightful here.
I'm not convinced that spear fishing divers are actually teaching native fish to hunt and consume Lionfish simply by offering them dead Lionfish to eat.
Rather, I suspect that, at least initially, it's just limited to habituation of the fish chosing to respond to a food cue.
Clearly, an experiment is required to tease out whether this hypothesis can be supported or debunked, with replication necessary for a definitive answer.
Anyone game for that?
All good points!
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortteWanting to expand dialog and understanding to protect the ecosystems ❤
Assume you already know triggerfish feed on other spiny venomous creatures like the queen of thorns starfish and urchins, so if any predator is going to figure out how to get past the lionfish's defenses, triggerfish already have some of the skills
Good point. Yeah triggerfish are pretty aggressive. Do you think they will start to hunt and kill Lionfish on their own?
Lionfish are more capable of evading attacks and fighting back than the triggerfish's other prey with venomous spines, so might be tough, but not out of the realm of possibility.
Do the animal already eat animals with spines? Should it be the easy starting question?
In other parts of the world where the lionfish is native, sharks and other predators know to eat them.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte very interesting. thank you for the follow up
I think all of this is excellent, both with the sharks and with the triggerfish. Perhaps that grouper was a better too small or got some spine from the speared lionfish. Fish are turning out to be smarter than we knew and there are an increasing number of examples of different species, even different phyla (like gobies and shrimp) working together for safety or hunting. Like with ravens - which can find carcasses they cannot open - transferring their cooperative behavior from wolves to human hunters, these fish are highly motivated to learn a new behavior that gets them food.
Awesome comment! Thank you for writing this!
It all depends on their equipment. Trigger fish are adapted to eating hardy urchins so its not surprising that they dont mind the spines on a lion fish. Maybe other contenders might be nurse sharks and other crustacean hunters that can break down hard carapaces and ignore the spines. Maybe octopuses too if they're around
I like how that one fish patiently waited for its lionfish meal
Our lionfish are quite rare, and they are eaten by both sharks and our giant Javanese Moray eels. These are resident in Mauritius. Both have poisoned flesh as a result and are not eaten locally
Interesting! Thank you for sharing.
It did look like the triggerfish was waiting for the handout. Reminds me of a robin who would hang around when i was in my garden. I would find grubs in the garden beds (which mean, skunks in the yard, and grub damage, down the road.) I would chuck the grubs out of the bed and the robin would track them down and eat them. He knew how to hunt for himself, but it sure was easier for me to find them first. He knew I meant a potential meal !
The triggerfish was definitely waiting for the handout. It's interesting how these creatures learn to adapt to their environment.
Same with fishing ponds. Robins have learnt that humans that go there have boxes of worms or maggots. So they hang around and wait then if you don't give them any they will sneak up and grab some themselves when you're baiting your hook. I've never seen a robin so close than when it's stealing from a bait box lol
Oh wow that is interesting. Thank you for sharing!
Do the spines not bother the sharks and groupers?
Larger predators can handle the venom.
„The triggerfish is so beautiful“
It has a face only a mother could love lmao
Yeah the markings are nice on this fish!
It looked like the triggerfish was avoiding the spines while eating. Looks like they adapted.
Yeah, they know what to stay away from.
Avid lionfish hunter here. It’s not a good idea to feed wildlife. From eels to snappers, groupers and sharks that all of the sudden only follow divers, to more stressful scenarios where you have to stop hunting because there’s a problem from these practices. Today, even Florida salt water anglers that take tourists out fishing are reporting incidence in sharks and other larger pelagic fish attacking a fish on the line while the angler attempts to land the fish. The norm now is for a portion of the fish to have a chunk eaten off already before it’s out of the water. This isn’t normal behavior and it’s likely a result of a learned behavior associated with feeding. Just one example of why experts are correct when they recommend not feeding wildlife. My 2 cents. Cheers!!!
Forgot to mention. I recommend using a hard plastic container to keep your lionfish catch. There are many options out there. Zookeeper is one of the best. Hope this helps. Cheers!
Yes this is so true. I plan on making a video on the same reefs in Belize comparing 2014 to 2022. You can see a significant difference in the behavior between those 2 years I have on video. Its a night and day difference.
Oh yeah the zookeepers are great! Can you tell us all how good the lionfish is to eat? I have never tried one, but I have heard they are really good.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte I've had them twice in Miami. Sushi and grilled. A tasty fish, though it was harder to find than expected.
I found an online list and a number didn't have them available at the time.
it seems as though the lion fish are safe to eat once they are injured. If other fish attempt to eat them when they are not injured is that jeopardizing the safety of the barrier fish?
Unfortunately yes, the other fish won't touch them if the lionfish is not hurt.
We can't answer your question. What happened to the grouper did the spiks injure it?
The trigger fish nibbled at the exposed flesh could it eat a live lion fish defending itself? Have they started discouraging people feeding them to sharks because they die.(Years ago that might have been thought of as a bonos).
A fish will always investigate a potencial meal but they don't know the danger an invasive fish offers.
The Grouper left the scene. The Grouper is too small, it will eat the Lionfish when it gets older.
The Triggerfish will not eat the Lionfish whole. Like you mentioned, it knew to look for the exposed flesh.
Sharks eat the Lionfish in the Red Sea.
The main reason lion fish are a problem isnt that they are toxic its that they are great at hunting, many fish have spines so most predators have ways of getting around them the main issue is lionfish look pretty unique so a lot of predators dont have that instinct to go after them like they do other fish.
Lionfish are wiping out small fish not big ones.
Not enough sarkies left here, but interestingly still normal levels of lionfish@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte
The smell of the internal fluids from the lionfish is what set the triggerfish off
Probably noise too.
Dont lionfish have spikes or something? How other fish eat them?
Yes venomous spines. Big predators can handle it.
Grouper doesn't want the spines stuck in its throat as it takes its prey whole in its large mouth. Triggerfish is quite happy to nibble on the flesh and avoid the spines.
I think animals associating humans with food is generally a bad thing, but it's interesting when you bring coral reefs into the mix. When we go there, we're generally going there to take in the sights or go pest control like this, and we're visiting; we can essentially get on a boat and leave at any time. Where this differs from say a coyote is that they are land-dwelling animals that may interfere with our day-to-day lives and become disruptive if they associate people with food. As long as divers in the local area have good communication, I'd say warming fish up to humans isn't the worst thing, considering most of them have no reason to attack a person and will have no impact on us when we go back to our own lives. In this case, it's not just warming up but also combating a serious issue with invasive species, so it does far more good than harm and also gives us some insight on the intelligence of these predators
This is a really interesting comment! Thank you for sharing!
I am usually opposed to feeding wildlife but if it teaches the triggerfish that lion fish are good to eat it will help the reef balance out naturally
That is a great idea, I wonder if it would work.
What ears lionfish in the Indopacific? Does anyone know what their natural predators are ?
Very few, including some species of sharks, eels. These one here simply don’t know how to hunt lion fish because it’s not native to them.
Sharks! Same as in the Red Sea.
I think people can keep hunting for lionfish if they are invasive and destructive. As for teaching other fish that lionfish are yummy, I think what might worry people is that instead of some of the critters hunting the lionfish themselves, they become dependent on humans. It's very tricky and risky. The only possible thing I could think of is using a deceased lionfish that has slight chunks opened for the fish to smell and hooking it to something natural and then maybe moving it will trigger their hunting mode while the humans are on a boat. Apologies if I am not good at explaining it.
Well said, thank you for sharing!
I have a question: Can we train land predators to hunt invasive species on land?
I imagine so. If the invasive species is more dominant, it would be difficult.
May be a dumb question but wouldn't eating a lionfish absolutely shred the stomach of a shark for example? Seems dangerous.
I think sharks and groupers can handle it. I haven't seen it happen.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Ok thanks. After watching this video I saw another of a moray eel eating a lionfish that it took from a diver.
The eels are definitely more aggressive to divers now too. They come find divers and swim right up to you. That did not happen 10 years ago.
The Shark Bytes channel just did a video on this, people feeding the sharks were getting attacked and Florida has banned feeding sharks. Sadly the population of reef sharks are declining in the areas where lionfish are gaining so that wasnt a viable solution, according to the video. Divers feeding wildlife lionfish were also getting harrased and attached by Moray Eels too. The fishing of Lionfish by divers is the only option now,abd that too is a losing battle.
Thank you for sharing this info!
This looks like a really good idea even with the posible downsides cuz once a single spicies learns how to hunt lionfish they will gain a massive advantage over other predators whom do not eat the fish and thus will incentivose them to hunt them down.
Could be running out of decent food to catch, so maybe it is taking advantage of the spear fishing.
Also, many people think fish stay in one location forever, it is possible this trigger fish hunts along the coast and stays near fishermen and divers for this reason?
Maybe even had a diver feed it once, so it learned the tiger fish is eatable and remembers the divers give out free easy meals.
Great comment! Thanks for writing this. I hope a lot of people read this.
Do we follow the groupers and sharks to make sure eating the lionfish doesn't harm them later?
Thats a good question. I don't know anyone that has.
Does the venom have any affect on the sharks or fish?
Larger predators can handle the venom.
My wife I spent years snorkeling in the Bahamas. We were on the island of Eleuthera, at a place called Raibow Bay. One of the most beautiful locations on the planet. Not exaggerating. Look it up. We snorkeled way out. Long story short - and it's a long story - my wife was attacked by a reef shark there. It did a figure 8 "threat dance" before attacking her and unfortunately, we didn't understand what was happening. We were not spear fishing and we didn't know spear fishing had become so common. As my wife was recovering, the locals explained that reef sharks around the island now hunt down humans because they expect to be fed lionfish from spear fishers. Several fishers get bit just from carrying the pole - as the reef sharks now associate a free meal with the pole. Sadly, my wife will never snorkel again. Sometimes she still wakes up screaming from nightmares. We had to find new hobbies. I'm not passing judgement, the lionfish need to be dealt with. But just sharing our experience.
The same is happening in the Caribbean. Sharks follow divers and look for free handouts...Lionfish kills on the end of a spear.
Don't they get hurt by the poison barbs ?
Ths fish know to stay away from the barbs.
Where did this place take action?
This was all shot in Cuba.
122924 This is something I've been wondering. Can the other fish be taught they can catch and eat the Lion Fish to assist in the eradication of this invasive fish.
I wonder if the reef fish eat the juvenile lionfish or not. That would help control the population. The reef fish will not attack the adult lionfish.
If the Lionfish are living at greater sizes and numbers deeper than divers can go, I think it is a good idea to teach the sharks and other predators that they can hunt these fish. If the sharks can begin hunting them at greater depths, that might be a way to help with the population of the fish. Since they have now moved into this region, it might be a good idea to help the locals deal with them in their own manner. Also, having another species that the sharks can prey upon, will help the other fish that are the normal prey of the sharks, perhaps taking some pressure off of them.
I think it's fine that there is intervention in helping other fish learn that they can eat the lion fish. Lionfish are not native, so they wouldn't know that they are on the menu unless they have help figuring it out. Better to get help from the ocean animals themselves to control the lion fish, as humans can't possibly hunt them all to save the reefs from the damage they cause over time.
Yes, it's definitely a good idea to help nature along with this problem.
How can anything survive eating these pincushions? Don't they get stuck in their digestive tract?
Pin cushions! LOL As long as you swallow the fish head first, it will go down.
How do sharks avoid the poison?
Sharks can handle the venomous spines.
Sharks are immune to every disease as well as lionship poison
Now we just need them to hunt the lionfish on their own.
isnt it obvious the grouper tried eating it whole, the lion fish has spines aint gunna work so well is it
It should be obvious lol. Hindsight is 20/20
Larger Grouper don't have a problem eating the fish, I think this one was just too small.
This Grouper was too small. When it gets bigger it will eat the Lionfish.
Lionfish instinctively present their backsides to predators while predators will attempt to circle around to the lionfish's belly and avoid the sharp poisonous barbs. An overabundance of any prey species will eventually be preyed upon by species maybe not associated with the prey species before. Such is the case with ground squirrels in CA preying on voles.
You are right about turning their backs to potential threat. I've always wanted to show this to people.
does the shark and other fish not react to the venom from the lionfish?
The sharks and bigger fish can tolerate the venom.
I thought that the lionfish were poisonous? Don’t the sharks get just a mouthful of spines? Poisonous ones?
The sharks can handle the venomous spines.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte Cool!! Thanks!
Doesn't surprise me, a Trigger will eat anything..... seriously though, one of almost all species of Triggerfish favorite things to eat are sea urchins, which have lots of spines... I would guess that it is associated the spines of the lion fish with the spines on an urchin
Good point on the sea urchin!
It is not a question about "Grouper doesn't but Lionfish does?" the reason for this is how the poisonous sting of the Lionfish affects every predator. Not all predator have an equal amount of immune system, if you see the Grouper tried to eat the Lionfish because it is in their instinct to survive, their only goal is to survive, eat or be killed and the Grouper didn't know where is the Lionfish's weakspot is while the Triggerfish does have an experience eating Lionfish.
You make a great point. It's a survival tactic for the grouper. This grouper was also a little on the smaller side. The larger groupers will eat the lionfish whole, head first.
Since lion fish are apparently good eating, it might be worth trying to push for a bounty program at a level that encourages commercial diving and harvesting operations. Take the pressure off other species commonly targeted for the dinner table.
Lionfish should be marketed as a luxury item for the weathy. Its costly to catch the fish, so the high market price would market well.
I'm late to the party, but like some have noticed, the trigger fish attacked the lionfish from the front, away from the spines 👍🏻
Yeah it saw the exposed flesh and went for that area.
Looks like its Pterois Volitans Lionfish we are seeing. That was either a pretty small lionfish or a huge trigger.
This was shot in Cuba. The lionfish was on the smaller side.
Excellent educational video.
Glad it was helpful!
I dont think its a problem, its not like there are enough divers to support the fish and it just shows them a new food source, fish are smarter then people realize. Trigger fish are actually quite capable of learning and if it realizes it can catch lionfish it might start going for them, they can be surprisingly predatory.
Good comment! Thanks for sharing!
Could it be that they know that the lion fish is dead and therefore being exposed itself to getting stung?
Yes that is part of it. The trigger also knows to look for the exposed flesh. They feed a lot of shark in this area of Cuba. Maybe the trigger learned to follow the divers?
I think that in a real wild situation the lion fish would defend itself, so the other fish wouldn't mess with it. But when you spear any fish, it will atract others to the wounded one. What we discovered here is that Triggerfish can eat Lionfish when even the Garoup wouldn't.
Yes exactly!
when sharks eat up a lionfish, do they ever get stuck by the barbs internally?
Sharks and large fish can handle the spines.
The trigger fish is very territorial, it can even kill the most venomous starfish, the queen of thorns
Yeah tough fish for sure
Dang, that fish is creepy, with its large bulging eyes and neon blue highlights
Question. Are fishes like triggerfish or grouper immune to the venom from the lionfish? Even if the venom doesn't do anything to them, once they swallow them whole, won't the spikes at least poke their insides?
The larger predators can tolerate the venomous spines. The triggerfish is eating the flesh.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte I see, thank you.
I thought they just swallow the whole thing
Is the consensus not to feed the fish now?
Some think feeding the sharks is only damaging the behavior. Shark now look to divers for a free handout, and the sharks are not hunting the lionfish on their own.
Aren't the poisonous spikes dangerous for sharks to eat the lionfish? Going into their mouth and getting stabbed?
The larger predators can handle the venom.
I wonder, has there been any follow up on any of the fish that actually swallowed the whole lion fish? It is not much of a cure if they die one to one!
I have always wondered the same thing.
Sounds good but on the other hand we don't know what else he might try after he ate lion fish. 😮
That's a good question! Hopefully, the sharks stick to eating what's on the menu.
You say this is a controversal practice, but you don't say why. Maybe you could explain a bit more about who frowns on it and why
It teaches sharks to associate divers with food, and some believe the sharks are not hunting the Lionfish on their own. The sharks are not circling divers on the reefs in Belize to see if you are spearing Lionfish. This did not happen 8 years ago. It makes for fun diving to see the sharks, so that is good for tourism. But some people think we are changing too much with the behavior of sharks by feeding the Lionfish to the sharks.
I still find it fascinating that an animal can be protected and endangered in one area and actively hunted in another.
I understand why, still, i find it fascinating thiugh.
Yeah good point!
I've fed sea urchins to fish skin diving in Jamaica & Grenada the people in soubise eat the sea urchins roasted & call it sea eggs
Yeah fish really like the sea urchins huh?!
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte fish like any kind of chum
Yeah true, even like dolphin and whale poop.
It seems the trigger fish has no problem tearing up the fish with his beaked teeth, thereby avoiding the poison spines. However, it appears the grouper is eating the lionfish whole and getting poked with spines, thereby spitting the fish out
I think the grouper is too small to eat the lionfish. It probably did not like the spines.
Hi I think it’s great teaching these fish that they can actually eat the lion fish since it’s an invasive species , then they can help defend the reef against the lion fish 🙂👍❤️🇦🇺
Hopefully it works.
Why would it be a bad thing to teach native fish that lionfish are tasty? Seems like the best plan to me.
Some think it could change the behavior too much.
Doesn't it has poisonous spikes? I don't think it's a good idea
Yes the spines have venom. The triggerfish is looking for the flesh part.
Is the shark and fish immune to the lion fish poison?
Larger fish and sharks can handle the venom from the Lionfish.
I believe sciencetist have genetically modified mosquitos to not be able to lay eggs. I wonder if it's possible to do the same to Lionfish
Yes or maybe introduce another fish that is already groomed to eat the lionfish.
It seems appropriate to speed up evolution a bit in these cases.
It’s certainly loads better than trying to introduce another species known to hunt them, like the cane toads introduced elsewhere.
Yeah that is a good point. Introducing another species could make things even worse. Hopefully the sharks learn to eat them like in other parts of the world. Its a sad story.
Very interesting. Educational on all levels.
The grouper won't, eat it because it would have to eat the poisonous barbs when it swallows it whole, but the trigger fish can just rip it apart and avoid the barbs
Larger grouper will eat the Lionfish. I think this one was too small.
I always thought trigger fish just chewed on corral
Parrotfish chew on the coral. Or really the algae on the coral.
@@OceansUnknownwithToddKortte never realise they’d eat meat.
What a beautiful spear design
It really is!
Eventually the other fish will realize/learn to eat the lionfish. They just need time. Nature has a way of self-balancing.
That's true, but with all the other environmental changes, like coral bleaching, many species are not able to adapt fast enough. It's too much all at once.
@@joshuacook2 Too much for what? For all species to adapt? Of course. Nature is competitive, and if you can't adapt fast enough, your form stops being alive. Other life evolves to take your place. I'll bet sharks are going to be fine, they have a pretty good record.
All strategies are acceptable! We don’t need PETA’s opinion 😁besides it promotes Scuba diving 💯
yeah good point! Its great for scuba diving and generates tourism $$ for locals. Keeps the sharks alive, and hopefully the Eco-System healthy.
Unnecessary trolley problem, they are not suppose to be here in first place.
yes its unfortunate. The lionfish is such a gorgeous fish, but it destroyed the Caribbean.
As long as it does not involve the introduction of another invasive species to combat the Lionfish I do not object.
Yeah, we don't need another invasive species.