Having uncaring dismissive narcissistic parents just set you up the rest of your life to expect to be unseen and unheard and unimportant in adult relationships. You believe it’s normal to live like that. Spent my life living that way until I got therapy. Been in it for 5 years and making headway as long as I stay away from the uncaring people.
My Mother just died, The memories coming through have to do with having to play small lest be mocked for trying to succeed. I certainly learned self sabotage from her.
@@mamaJmama am so sorry your going thru some rough and painful emotions right now. I felt similar when my mother passed away also. Will keep you in prayer for God's grace and comfort and love and peace fill your heart mind and spirit to bring you the comfort you need right now.
I just do and expect criticism is never will be on anyone's level of good, but it is what it is I set my goals to be the best version I can be ignore all humans or let them believe someone else did or wants something. I can feel through the praise they get when its in their name. But how to know if you did a good job or they just idolize anything certain people do. Guess next job I should set up a person that people are neutral towards for the credit.
Thanks for validating this experience of growing up a narcissist's child. I went decades with the uncomfortable feeling of not deserving attention or being a boring person. When people do show interest, I wonder if they want something from me. Neglect can be a very powerful message to children about their lack of worth. One day I was at a social event with a friend for MIT alumni and I was standing in the buffet line chit chatting with the woman behind me. At one point in the conversation, the woman said "I want to sit at your table" I was surprised that this MIT alumni picked me as the dinner companion with my state college degree out of all those well educated people. Of course, by that time, I had lived in 9 countries, spoke 5 languages, was well versed in economics, environment, foreign affairs and had my own quirky perspective on life, but it didn't occur to me anyone would find me interesting.
@@whimsylore oh I learned the selling stuff during quarantine bc when i made mistakes they couldn't see the reactions on my face. That's when I learned (over time) that you can have a low number, and others will be interested. I was lucky I was selling gym equipment out my basement. Everybody happened to want that so I had the opposite problem - I got overwhelmed, and scared I was going to get taken advantage of. I did a few times, and it was demoralizing every time. My mom is a narc hoarder, so no applicable life skills there. But I was at least able to clear out my basement, downsize, and take advantage of the housing market at the time.
At 51 and with many experiences over the years where good people have responded positively towards me, I still expect that people will find me dull, uninteresting and that my existence is bothersome. My family feel this way, and so have other key people throughout my life.
, I can relate to how you felt that from your family. I'm 61 and still feel like that by my family too. No matter what I do they some how always cause me to feel devalued and uninteresting or not good enough.
@@lynny5908 it’s crazy isn’t it? I bet all of us here would get on great and never make each other feel that way, I’m certain it would be the very opposite!!!
This happened to me. The result was that I attracted a lot of people who wanted me to listen to them without listening to me, reinforcing my belief that I was boring. Surprisingly, this even happened to me with a therapist. My mother brought me to a therapist when I was in college for a year or so, and each week I just took my cues from him and was a good listener to him. It was just pleasant "coffee talk" where I was in my automatic and familiar role of being a good listener, without knowing any better. Easy money for him. He absolutely failed me. Go figure, my mother was the client who chose him and paid him. I didn't realize until years later that, hey, I was supposed to be the focus instead of just catering to him.
Perhaps he was her "flying monkey", too. That's what narcs do...get inside your head, the reason for the casual coffee the get together.. Sad thing is the therapist knew better than to do that.
Your therapist was probably one of those who was telling your mom what she wanted to hear. This is not an uncommon experience of scapegoated children: when their n-parent is finally cornered into getting the kid into therapy, they'll "therapist shop" until they find someone who confirms their belief that the scapegoated child is the problem and that it's the scapegoat who needs to change their behavior and not the parent.
@@billd66 yeah my mother put me in one when i was 16, and after she had a talk with the therapist i think she didn't like what the therapist concluded, because afterwards she just said that the therapist claimed all my problems are made up and im just overreacting and stuff like that. I actually thought the therapist understood me so when my mother said this i broke down completely like there is no help for me anymore. It makes so much sense in the context of what you're saying
And here I was thinking this would not be such a difficult video to watch, since I came to terms with being an uninteresting person a long time ago. Boy, was I mistaken...I finished the video in tears...again. But I guess it is necessary. Sometimes I wish I could go back to thinking my parents were just a bit strict and poor, but they wanted the best for me and that the reason for my dis-functional life and relationships is my laziness and high sensitivity... and I just ''attract'' those kind of people or situations. But there is no going back is there? You can't unsee what's been seen. Thank you doctor.
Yes before you know it's like being trapped in playing a role that doesn't fit you but at least you can tell yourself you have a loving family. After you know you are free but so alone. There's some level of comfort ripped you. It's like waking up but being homesick for the matrix.
My mother and six of my seven siblings treated me like this. I've believed for so long that I'm invisible and worthless. Your videos are really helping.
A food for thought. I don't think about the "being seen" aspect of childhood often since I hoped to be left alone and in peace instead of being seen. Being seen was only during bullying. No wonder why I have a problem with things like asking people "how are you"? No attention was given to me, so it feels unnatural to show interest in others, even if I know intelectually people do that. Secondly, I don't think anybody wants my attention and I don't feel important enough to engage them. I have no social life since I take the smallest amount of space. People were making fun of how silent kid I was, but it was reflection of how silent I HAD TO BE, and secondly being ignored everywhere as the "weird kid" I didn't have the social fuel, energy must flow and as you are being ignored/neglected you don't receive the energy to give it further to others. That's a huge missing puzzle cause there's no just "abused child" that needs healing, the "invisible child" needs it too.
My parents focused on their careers and identities/personas around their careers (intellectual academics). They seemed chronically overwhelmed and unsatisfied with their two kids (brother and me). I remember around 8 or so, realizing that if I wanted some time and attention from my father, I’d need to ask him questions about himself-then he’d stick around and talk to me 😀. My mother was downright cruel-whenever I had something to say, it wasn’t good enough, special enough, etc. I’ve gotten much less tolerant of giving people my attention when they don’t reciprocate-I just don’t make the effort anymore. But I still have the belief that my thoughts, my life, are not worth mentioning, and it feels very risky and stressful when I do actually communicate openly. This is such a handicap in the workplace!
Jay, I always feel so hurt and angry while watching your videos as they constantly bring to light ways I was devalued and discarded that I did not even recognize as such as I didn't know anything else. I have to watch your videos in stops and starts just to process what I am learning. You help me uncover things I didn't even know I needed to uncover. Thank you for your contributions, they are so very much appreciated as you provide a perspective and insight that no one else has. I hope you know how much you are helping others. Intellectually I understand that I may have value but emotionally I do not feel this, it is a real struggle that I am working on overcoming and your videos combined with therapy are helping but it is really hard and I am frequently discouraged by how hard I have to keep working on telling myself I am not worthless. I wish I could just wake up one morning and all this would be behind me or that I could outrun it. Thanks again!
I'm experiencing it in exactly the same way! I am always late in commenting because I need to process so much. So many awful memories! And every time I tried to explain something to my mother, she never understood or she said I must have understood that situation wrong or she couldn't remember. It makes me feel sick and I don't want to see her ever again!
I realized this when most of my happiest memories as a child were alone (playing alone. drawing alone. on the computer alone) -- at least I enjoy my company but I doubt anyone else could
I feel like I was just a product of what people do after they get married….like I was just there to make my parents look “normal”. To be seen but not heard I guess. I was also sheltered a lot more than my brother because I was the girl. My dad was the big 6’5 jock guy and they put my brother in a lot of sports to try and make themselves look good but I was not allowed to do anything. My parents basically shoved me in my room and I remember I played with my Barbie’s a lot. They did provide a nice home but it was also full of explosive anger from my father, vacations that were also full of explosive anger from my father, and money when I needed it but usually it was just to get me out of their hair or because they felt bad. After my mom died and my dad remarried an even bigger narcissist than he is I left the family.
Despite deprivation and devaluation regularly deployed by my borderline/narcissist mom I still managed to pursue talents and hobbies. During middle school I was passed up for a solo in the school concert choir. My best friend’s mom drove me and her to the choir concert. During the drive to the school for the choir performance later that evening I sang the solo as I sat in the backseat. My friend’s mom shared her disappointment with me once I finished the solo. She thought my voice was superior and that I deserved the solo. Her reaction contrasted with my mom’s. My mom had concluded it was my fault for not getting the solo. She claimed to have run into my choir teacher outside of school. During this encounter the choir teacher volunteered the reason I was passed up for the solo. Her reason was I was too unpredictable and the choir teacher gave the solo to the less talented student. I remember how gleeful my mom was when recounted this story to me. She kept insisting I was to blame and would regularly remind me of my failure in subsequent years. My mom would use this solo experience as evidence that I needed correction, that it was proof that I was defective furthering her false narrative of my character.
Wow what a piece of work she is. . I’m so sorry. Isn’t that something? When you experience a real mother ( your friends mom) caring about you, advocating for you? It was very strange for me. Once I had a bad bicycle accident near a friends house. Her mother was home and was horrified and wanted to call my mother as she was cleaning blood out of my hair and applying ice to my bloody swollen face. I didn’t want her to call my mom but I could barely walk, as my knee was mangled really bad. My mother came and ordered me to get in the car. My friends mom helped me walk to it. I was ashamed to be harshly reprimanded in front of my friends mom. That day My mom made me mow our yard with a push mower and no bandaid to cover my gaping wounded knee. She allowed my brothers to kick stomp on my knee that same day because I didn’t get out of their way. She made me go to school the next day with a huge fat lip. What a piece of work.
@@joellenklemek138 I’m so sorry you experienced this. It’s been my experience that when I was vulnerable or injured my mom would amplify her abuse. I agree that I would feel embarrassed when empathy or care was directed my way. I felt undeserving of this kindness from teachers or friends parents. I remember the adult providing this comfort had a look of horror at my resistance to allow them to help me. My mom professed to be an overprotective mother. While she didn’t neglect us when it came to medical care, I still waited way too long to tell her I had an injury. I always feared I would get in trouble and often concealed normal childhood bumps and scrapes. I hope you found people who cared about once you got older. Your mother was a special kind of cruel
@@taniabluebell3099 thanks. 🥲It feels so good and makes me cry now, whenever someone declares that my abusers are bad people. That they are the jerks that they are. Thank you so much! It really means the world to me. And I hope you know that I 100% see your mom as a horrible human! Shame on her for harming you and robbing your rightful blessings from you. She is disgusting for what she did to you.
@@joellenklemek138 Likewise. I’m happy you are getting the validation that was denied during your youth. There is a happy story. My mom did not prevail. While I did give up singing during high school I resumed this talent by taking a voice class as an elective in college. I joined a young adult choir and gradually worked my way to singing solos. I remember how much my mom liked the attention she was receiving when people approached her to share how much they liked my singing voice. As she lapped up the attention I stood nearby watching her and thought to myself “if only you knew how much she mocked and discouraged me behind closed doors”.
@@taniabluebell3099 and how jealous she was if you getting to have your gift. And how much she tried to kill your gift and relished in destroying it. If only the truth of how depraved and sadistic she was to you were exposed. If only everyone could see how pathetic she was to be jealous and competitive with her own child. I hope she knows that you know how pathetic she is. And I hope she knows she is now powerless to conquer and exploit and mock you. I hope she fears your power to own your superiority over her.
Thank you so much for sharing these videos. Being a scapegoated child of a narcissistic mother, I chronically doubt myself and especially blame myself for all the things I did but didn't want to do growing up, even with therapy and years of reading on the subject of narcissism, but your explanations and choice of words are so clear and thoughtful that I feel like I truly get it
I know this is all based on science, but I find it interesting that you chose "Joseph," as a fictional character's name having being familiar with the story of Joseph in the Qur'an and Bible. This was spot on with what I experienced with my mother. No contact for two years now, and I am finally starting to accept my true identity as a good natured, well-meaning, and kind human-being who deserves love, respect, and validation. Thank you for making this video!
Spot on, Jay. You absolutely articulate this dynamic, even down to the elimination of "hope" - which I intentionally chose to never say or feel at the age of 8. I've been way too close to my own experience for language. My development was confounded by a single parent who hides behind a DID diagnosis, loved me for my naivete, exploited my drive for love, endangered me, and sabotaged my every effort for individuation. In adulthood, when I shared my diagnosis of cancer, she changed the subject and showed zero interest - when I confronted her, she blamed me for not comforting her as she was "in shock". I did not personalize shame or worthlessness. I do connect with "invisibility", being shunned, and definitely "uninteresting". Accused of malintent when I've risen above it - my expression of concern, caring, and respect in her elder years is received as threats - and I recognize this as one of her "tells". With more life behind me than ahead of me, I want to live proactively without a trace of her. HUGE TASK. Jay, thank you for addressing how it affects us and how we can heal, rather than deconstructing the "mastermind". Your insight and professionalism has stirred hope in me.
The feeling I have isn't so much that I am not good enough or that I am uninteresting - instead, I feel CURSED. It doesn't matter that I am doing as well or better than others or that I know rationally I am in a safe place with safe people, I cannot get over the feeling that at any minute my joy, contentment, pride or peace will be taken away from me - and for no justifiable reason. And that I am supposed to just deal with it as just that is the way it is and not be so entitled as to be upset about it. I know that for a fact this is a reflection of childhood dynamics where I would outdo a number of my siblings (I am from a huge Catholic family) but it didn't matter. As the scapegoat, my accomplishments would be belittled or I wouldn't be allowed to continue in something (apparently because I wasn't supposed to stand out as an individual). It is really tiring feeling like I constantly navigate and being stuck in this purgatory-like middleground where I'm not to complain, but I am also not to be happy.
I had a very sadistic and paranoid mother. She was very jealous if I got to experience friendships and popularity when I was a teenager. In order to escape the dungeon of my home so that I could socialize, I had to tell lies and even involve my friends and and random classmates to participate in lies. Just so I could go out of my house. She hated that I had friendships with other teenage girls. She would say they “don’t have good parental guidance”. The only way I could sneak out of the house was (at age 14 15 16 & 17) if I had a date with a boy. I was not allowed to go out with friends but was allowed to date boys (but never a double date with a girlfriend of mine of course). I had to manipulate and use boys who had crushes on me to pick me up for a date and then ditch them for my girlfriends. What type of inner core believe did I developed in order to do this? I think the inner core belief is that “ I am bad. I am a bad girl”.
I want to add that I had 5 other siblings. I was the scapegoat, the only child whose friends all had “poor parental guidance”. The main golden child was my sister who was 15 months older than me. My mother wanted her to be more popular than me. My GC sister would also participate in the lies to help me escape from our bizarre emotionally harmful home. She would help by having her friends and boy friends pretend to take us out on double dates and then drop me off with my girlfriends. So what belief was I inventing to make this all work function and make sense?
One more thing to add. In a previous video Jay told the story of a boy who was ashamed that his mother was emotionally sadistic to him and when a good friend invited him over to watch football he made up a lie that he had other plans and then he distanced from the good friend in order to avoid the shame of having a mother who would deliberately prevent and sabotage his friendship. I also was very ashamed that my mother would say my girlfriends had “poor parental guidance”. I lied to them about the reason I needed them to help sneak me out by pretending I was going in a date. I never told them the truth, that my mother didn’t approve of them and their parents.
@@erikavaleries really??? Oh my gosh. Poor you! I thought my moms sadism for me was the most bizarre thing. I never dreamed anyone else could even believe it let alone experience the same. I requested to be placed in foster care and my mom agreed but my dad said no and made her go to counciling. She had some type of paranoid personality and she projected her delusional suspicions on me and a few other targets outside of our family. Did your mother ever get a diagnosis? Was she also very racist and sexist? Mine is and was. She has dementia now - 84yrs old.
I had a mother very similar to yours, she was very jealous, and I was denied girlfriends yet could date. Also if I ever wanted to go somewhere where people my age would attend like dances at the beach, just go to the beach etc., her comment was always 'Only sluts go there'. I sometimes wondered how she knew that. She often talked about her own pleasure at going to local dances herself as a teenager. I find Jay Reid so helpful.
I never really experienced love, support and safety - but I have experienced lot of trauma. If I talk about it, I just experience more devaluation, more gaslighting = more trauma
Yes. Im 51 and still catching lightning in a bottle. I know my brilliance is in there- I know it but, its stymied, that somehow by the echoes of the uninterested voices of childhood
When people spend time with me, I always feel like it's because they have nothing better to do and would rather be with anyone else if they had the choice 😢
In a professional way yes. I do not know why I would be a better candidate than any other candidate. In fact, I think, 'they'd probably be better. I need to get all of my answers straight in my head now.
*"The result can be the child expects others to react with hostility for them just for existence"* WoW. I've always felt: why would people like/love me, when they can group harass me? I could tell myself that people are nice and for sure they'll like me, but deep inside it just didn't make sense. What would they gain by liking me instead of abuse? And it's not self hate or insecurity. It's simply that I was never safe in any relationship so the idea of people "liking me" for nothing seems surreal. I haven't heard anybody talking about the weird feeling I had since early teen.
I feel you. Exatly my thinking, but then I do question my thoughts. Only people who feel bad harass others. So it's on them, not me. My relife has been that eventuelly I pursied though it feels unnatural bc I know some like and valde me. I struggle still with valuing myself, it's an uncredible amount of work put to becoming to tell myself I am valuable and I deserve what I want (knowing what I want is also something I have to work for). It axosties my sometimes, what I presume comes just natural to others, but avoid comparison. Find relife in aco-meetings and wonderfull meditations. "Go where you are welcomed, not where you are tolerated" there is a lot of throuth in that. I try to catch myself when I look down when meeting people. I don't know anymore what I'm coming to but tell yourself you are worthy every day and tast how that feels ❤ :-) bc you are worthy and you are intressant. Go on, eventuelly momentum you start attracting people whom you think I'll see where this goes, and take it slow.Pursue intrest. And feel there is nothing wrong with me, I just hade family that was hurt and therefore incapsble of love. I had more luck than them bc I look at myself and challenge my primed belives which were put in my mind - they are not belives coming from me. Always have compassion for yourself when you trip and have compassion for others. Love :-)
The nuanced understanding is so validating. I’ve recovered alone before finding this channel and realised every aspect of jays approach along the way . I still didn’t quite believe myself and this channel is like a witness to it all. I’m through the other side of the trauma and just looking for answer how to live for myself and be motivated by my own best interest thus is my struggle now.
I completely get this with two entitled sisters and enabling parents who both had narcissistic traits I became an avid reader shut off from life and airing any real ideas or opinions for fear of ridicule or rejection. Hence i was reading books like Jane Eyre by the age of 11. This kind of saved me as over the years i received support in the world of academia and from kind caring intelligent teachers. However i still really struggle to introduce my opinions and ideas if the spotlight is on me. Its almost as if any ideas are enveloped in a brain fog that I just cant shake and at such times i have difficulty remembering my name! Meanwhile my sisters can sing solo on a stage to a packed audience and in intimate settings!! You couldnt script it! Once again thanks Jay I am angry but it a constructive anger coupled with determination to move forward 🧡
I have this brain fog too. I believe the maltreatment suffered has made it harder to learn things. I know it takes me longer to grasp things and I am quite intelligent. I found the anger, at times, life-saving. xo
I had this type of upbringing, yet I feel egotistical, and often whenever I’ve shared something that I know is interesting, I get the leader of the group loudly saying, “Nobody cares.” It’s happened to me from classmates and teachers as a kid, and from coworkers and supervisors at work. Here’s the thing, though, I know that I am the interesting one with very interesting things to say and stories to tell, while most around me are boring and dull.
But their expressions of indifference sting nevertheless. I wish I could get my words out and be assertive enough to stand up and loudly reply to them, “ Okay, wise guy, let’s see if you have anything more interesting to say, other than the vapid celebrity gossip you always talk about.” Jay, I hope one day, you’ll do a video about being more assertive without alienating everyone and creating enemies and escalating things, because that’s what usually happens to me whenever I try to assert myself….that is during those rare moments when I can even get my words out because I’m too shocked at the response to my attempts to get positive attention and get the opposite of what I’d hoped for.. It’s like I just can’t find the words and I’m all choked up because I’m in freeze mode.
@@diatribe5 omg i can relate to this. i think it might honestly be in part a problem of being high IQ and surrounded by idiots who can't even comprehend yet alone appreciate your level of intelligence. genuinely.
I can't gain distance cause I have no money. My narcissists are very dangerous. I live in a dangerous corrupt country with no human rights so I have to be careful around my narcissists
very enlighteningly expressed by Jay Reid here. Jay you are an articulate explainer of some very detailed difficult material and felt /experienced ideas and relationships. Thankyou.
It was interesting, the other day I was trying to connect with my inner child- at first it felt weird because my inner child felt like she wasn't worth listening to, and that she wasn't interesting or needing attention. This really hit the nail on the head of this feeling. Thanks Jay :)
I always felt like my parents were popular kids that I wasn’t cool enough for. I felt like a blemish most of the time that they were trying to ignore or hide, except occasionally when I served a purpose to make them look good. One of my earliest memories is being told by my dad “children are to be seen and not heard”. After watching this video I realized it was also my last experience with him. He just wanted me there, but wasn’t interested in connecting with me. Just there to support him. How would it look if your child isn’t there with you when you are dying in the hospital and 100’s of people are coming to visit? That wouldn’t LOOK GOOD! Oh no, we can’t have that! He preferred talking to the nurse he just met rather than me. This video connected significant dots that several therapists did not. Thanks so much for doing these incredibly insightful videos!
thank you so much for your work and this channel - it has been transformative in processing what is was like in my house growing up. your videos have helped me remember my size, and i feel so ready to live freely.
I have learned so much from this channel in the 1 week since youtube threw it my way. Some of things I didn't even were connected to me being the scapegoat actually are.The subject of this video is so real for me. I'm 50 and still have the belief that people won't find me interesting, so I don't socialize. Even though I long for people to hear me, I am ashamed when they actually do, like somewhere deep down I don't feel I deserve it. I think they're going to find I am a poor excuse for a person. On top of everything I am a partially disable adult, I have epilepsy (which my parents ignored and never me took me a doctor) and had to leave an abusive marriage. During that time I couldn't work and had to go back to my parents, of all people. Now that I can work rent is impossibly high and I feel stuck here against my will. So I now I live with that shame too, on top of being stuck in a toxic situation.
I literally can't talk about myself unless asked directly about a particular thing (like talking about my skills in a job interview) or talking about a shared event and/or interest. I can't even answer my German teacher's "How's your day been so far?" even though I know the main reason for the question is to get me talking. Having positive experiences might've helped if I could just Make. Myself. Talk. I hate my brain sometimes.
This is exactly what cropped up, for me, during an interview this week. I can relate to this video and it has helped to make sense of my reactions. Thank you.
The universe has a funny way of delivering just what you need at the right time..... :) so happy to find this video in my inbox this morning...it's exactly the next layer I need to unravel. Thanks Jay - you explain this really well. I don't currently have a therapist....how would you suggest I look at this by myself?
I feel like I've done all 3 halfway. I feel stuck like I cannot do it fully. On step 1 there are things I don't remember that I really really wish I could remember so that I can make FULL sense of everything. I have a huge question that I need answered....how do I tap into my memory to answer it.....or is there another way of answering my own question?
Thank you , you're so right about everything. Its so true. I enjoy watching your videos. I am a 47 female who got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am Empath , i am the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. I been a Christian for over ten years. I know my worth and values. My peace come from God. God is great all the time. Both of my parents are Narcissists so is my grandmother. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers. Narcissists are liars Narcissists are broken people Narcissists always act like they are the victim Narcissists are insecure people Narcissists never loved us at all Narcissists dont care about us at all Narcissists are pure evil souls from the Devil Narcissists are fake and phony people Narcissists dont know how to Love at all
I think most of the time I’m buried under the belief that I don’t even desire attention from others. Even the idea of wanting attention is so far outside my consciousness. Years ago when social media exploded, i never joined Facebook. It’s deeply confusing to me, because all I imagine is painful experience after painful experience. Just another facet of my life that I can fill the role of outsider or loser. When I’m around others, I’m almost always projecting out of defensiveness, and i DO often get rejection or disinterest from them. How do I see that as evidence that I’m not being authentic? My brain wants to use the rejection as evidence of “even when I try to be acceptable, i am still unacceptable.” But it’s actually the defensiveness that people are reacting to. It’s so hard to love myself through this process when I seems like I’m intentionally making myself unloveable. I know I can’t help it but i feel SO SURE that it’s my choice and my fault.
How painful! I hope you will keep working at it. There may be another factor in play. I’ll try to describe it. For me, I am very hyper vigilant of people hurting me in all the various ways (disrespect degrade use dislike condescend disregard ignor snub rudeness etc..). I think by being over watchful and noticing of the tiniest mail-traits I overlook good normal decent people (which most people are). I think that when I am visiting or around people I am hunting for something not nice to come out. If nothing does I am bored and very awkward and , as you say - and how I relate is the awkwardness may be a fear that they don’t like me or are uninterested. When I am treated poorly, I am the opposite of awkward. I know how to live and behave around bad behavior and treatment. Maybe that’s why I’m hyper vigilant for it. Almost like it gives me something to then interact with. I was terribly scapegoated throughout my whole development. It’s a daunting thing to try to change our inner involuntary core system of beliefs that our whole personality/psychology is built upon. I don’t know the way how, but I believe it is possible. I know it’s possible so I hope and I will try to undo mine and re-develop it for my own good. And I pray for you also to be freed from the painful inner believes that served to keep you alive as a powerless and dependent child. God bless you and help to free you from the pain. May you and I both be fortunate enough to heal and to allow ourselves to live in the freedom and joy of all our beautiful gifts!
@@joellenklemek138 Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. It rings true for me in my life. I feel like my only usefulness is to be a scapegoat for others to attack. So when that's not happening, i don't know how to be or how to interact. It's totally true. I don't remember how i used to do small talk, i just can't anymore. It's like I'm paralyzed. Being rejected by my own parents made me completely forget how to be a human. I know that relaxing my hypervigilence is key, but i can't seem to actually self soothe in those moments. It's usually all a blur and I'm not entirely present or self aware in those times. I hate myself for my reactions which makes the next time even worse. The patterns seem like a part of me, like they ARE me. Thank you for the encouragement. I do have faith that i will be able to see reality and myself clearly someday. It's worth it to keep trying to connect with kind decent people like you.
So helpful as usual 🌼 I wonder if this leads to dopamine issues, when there is no reward, only punishment. These people are so self centered they their children's center to be THEM.... healthy self esteem you are at center but facing outwards for connection w others and honor of other's center as well... they are so turned inward they can only see and feel themselves :( and this can be trained institutionally as well... the military doesnt train you to control your emotions but to think youre controlling them by denying them (out of safety necessity)... stranglely enough things were much worse for me and my interactions w family after the military... because Id learned how to hold my feelings at bay and be "logical"... before the military I had proper rebelliob because they created feelings so painful. New age/religion--same business... but it was the military that did the work to me. After out of devasting stint in military, I found a paper written by my mother from a psychology class.... where she detailed step by step how she manipulated me into joining. I was on my own doing ok and they just couldnt have that. I'd never wanted to join... emotional and artistic and peaceful. They got the military to break in me what they couldnt---because I had no other choice there. Military is narcissism writ large. Understanding is healing and freeing. We NEED connection to our negative emotions to get away from abuse. Im now optimistic not positive or negative... one needs to see clearly and FEEL clearly, connected to oneself and Creator to truly be ALIVE ... nothing in past is wasted... all incredibly valuable lessons to help all the rest of this life's NOWS and to help others by sharing in whatever ways we can. This journey is hard but SO GOOD and so Spiritual. Wonderful how a new persoective can shine truth on a thousand lies.
and I might add that interested is different than feeling worthy or SAFE to be intertested in one's own life and life development... narcisistic perspectives will reflect anger if someone has goals, self esteem anything that takes away from their superiority... sexism/racism is the same... what's interesting is that although I wasnt allowed to be interested in myself... I became interestef in study and life itself... being always called stupid, I had that littlw work around :) ok, Im not book smart (I was though) but Im INTERESTED and CURIOUS ... and I kept that to myself... my teachers loved me but I wasnt interested in grades... shining the light of interest and curiosity on my own life now too ⛵
I don't want them to think I'm interesting I want my family to stay out of my biz. They never have anything good to say or offer. As the scapegoat they only bring misery. Much happier alone or with family you build..
I have suspected for many years that my Dad has had a problem with my very existence since my birth. My Mom's best friend used to tell my sister and me that my sister was the one who was more verbally inquisitive and that I would physically explore and get into things more and she said at least one time in particular I was playing with a potted plant and my Dad said to my Mom "Joyce, she's testing me...." That story never felt like a funny family story but instead I think I've always known that my Dad has completely disliked me since the beginning. Could my Dad have picked up on qualities of mine that triggered him even when I was under 2 years old?
bro tfw who doesnt live like this. i have at no point i am a adult now failing to launch. who has parents that help them thats funny concept to me. excluding here is some stuff. for me i call it the cost of doing business 10:50 i will not get my needs met and i will be left in lurch. and thats the cost of me saying no or doing bounderies or telling them to fuck off with assertiveness.
Having uncaring dismissive narcissistic parents just set you up the rest of your life to expect to be unseen and unheard and unimportant in adult relationships. You believe it’s normal to live like that. Spent my life living that way until I got therapy. Been in it for 5 years and making headway as long as I stay away from the uncaring people.
This man knows me more than I know myself 😰
same lol
100% it's insane
Same.
I know, right?? Honestly I'm always amazed at his insights and how they apply to so many of our experiences.
Same. I adore Jay
The child feels lucky for not being attacked you just summed up my teen years 😥
There are so many layers to unwrap from being raised by dyfunctional narcisisstic parents. Thanks for showing another side.
Well said- thank you!
its not just parents teachers' relatives peers
How you're doing?
Yes, there is a lot of layers for sure.
Yes, you decide to start healing something, to find out another thing need to be healed.
My Mother just died, The memories coming through have to do with having to play small lest be mocked for trying to succeed.
I certainly learned self sabotage from her.
my mother is dying and i have been having mad anxiety and issues kick up.😭
@@mamaJmama am so sorry your going thru some rough and painful emotions right now. I felt similar when my mother passed away also. Will keep you in prayer for God's grace and comfort and love and peace fill your heart mind and spirit to bring you the comfort you need right now.
I just do and expect criticism is never will be on anyone's level of good, but it is what it is I set my goals to be the best version I can be ignore all humans or let them believe someone else did or wants something. I can feel through the praise they get when its in their name. But how to know if you did a good job or they just idolize anything certain people do. Guess next job I should set up a person that people are neutral towards for the credit.
Thanks for validating this experience of growing up a narcissist's child. I went decades with the uncomfortable feeling of not deserving attention or being a boring person. When people do show interest, I wonder if they want something from me. Neglect can be a very powerful message to children about their lack of worth.
One day I was at a social event with a friend for MIT alumni and I was standing in the buffet line chit chatting with the woman behind me. At one point in the conversation, the woman said "I want to sit at your table" I was surprised that this MIT alumni picked me as the dinner companion with my state college degree out of all those well educated people. Of course, by that time, I had lived in 9 countries, spoke 5 languages, was well versed in economics, environment, foreign affairs and had my own quirky perspective on life, but it didn't occur to me anyone would find me interesting.
I’m chuckling reading this last line! I hope you’ve come round to the idea now! ❤️
You sound like a real sweetie pie.
I'm happy that you had this aha moment.👏👏👏
And this is why I find job interviews demoralizing...
Same. Also when contemplating trying to market/sell something I made, knowing no one would actually find value in it.
@@whimsylore oh I learned the selling stuff during quarantine bc when i made mistakes they couldn't see the reactions on my face. That's when I learned (over time) that you can have a low number, and others will be interested. I was lucky I was selling gym equipment out my basement. Everybody happened to want that so I had the opposite problem - I got overwhelmed, and scared I was going to get taken advantage of. I did a few times, and it was demoralizing every time. My mom is a narc hoarder, so no applicable life skills there. But I was at least able to clear out my basement, downsize, and take advantage of the housing market at the time.
@@whimsylore for my next job, I'm going begging at the staffing agency again bc I can't interview to save my life 🤭😁
At 51 and with many experiences over the years where good people have responded positively towards me, I still expect that people will find me dull, uninteresting and that my existence is bothersome. My family feel this way, and so have other key people throughout my life.
, I can relate to how you felt that from your family. I'm 61 and still feel like that by my family too. No matter what I do they some how always cause me to feel devalued and uninteresting or not good enough.
@@lynny5908 it’s crazy isn’t it? I bet all of us here would get on great and never make each other feel that way, I’m certain it would be the very opposite!!!
@@rachelmaxwell5953 But someone in the group tends to end up the scapegoat
@@rachelmaxwell5953 That's for sure, Rachel!
This happened to me. The result was that I attracted a lot of people who wanted me to listen to them without listening to me, reinforcing my belief that I was boring. Surprisingly, this even happened to me with a therapist. My mother brought me to a therapist when I was in college for a year or so, and each week I just took my cues from him and was a good listener to him. It was just pleasant "coffee talk" where I was in my automatic and familiar role of being a good listener, without knowing any better. Easy money for him. He absolutely failed me. Go figure, my mother was the client who chose him and paid him. I didn't realize until years later that, hey, I was supposed to be the focus instead of just catering to him.
Perhaps he was her "flying monkey", too. That's what narcs do...get inside your head, the reason for the casual coffee the get together..
Sad thing is the therapist knew better than to do that.
Your therapist was probably one of those who was telling your mom what she wanted to hear. This is not an uncommon experience of scapegoated children: when their n-parent is finally cornered into getting the kid into therapy, they'll "therapist shop" until they find someone who confirms their belief that the scapegoated child is the problem and that it's the scapegoat who needs to change their behavior and not the parent.
@@billd66I'm glad I never went to therapy when I was 16. I can see that happening
@@billd66 yeah my mother put me in one when i was 16, and after she had a talk with the therapist i think she didn't like what the therapist concluded, because afterwards she just said that the therapist claimed all my problems are made up and im just overreacting and stuff like that. I actually thought the therapist understood me so when my mother said this i broke down completely like there is no help for me anymore. It makes so much sense in the context of what you're saying
Therapists kind of failed me as well.
And here I was thinking this would not be such a difficult video to watch, since I came to terms with being an uninteresting person a long time ago. Boy, was I mistaken...I finished the video in tears...again. But I guess it is necessary. Sometimes I wish I could go back to thinking my parents were just a bit strict and poor, but they wanted the best for me and that the reason for my dis-functional life and relationships is my laziness and high sensitivity... and I just ''attract'' those kind of people or situations. But there is no going back is there? You can't unsee what's been seen. Thank you doctor.
Yes before you know it's like being trapped in playing a role that doesn't fit you but at least you can tell yourself you have a loving family. After you know you are free but so alone. There's some level of comfort ripped you. It's like waking up but being homesick for the matrix.
I have the same thoughts. No way to unsee it, but don’t know if I manage to see more in therapy…
@@amberinthemist7912Oh boy, I can really relate to this.
My mother and six of my seven siblings treated me like this. I've believed for so long that I'm invisible and worthless. Your videos are really helping.
A food for thought. I don't think about the "being seen" aspect of childhood often since I hoped to be left alone and in peace instead of being seen. Being seen was only during bullying. No wonder why I have a problem with things like asking people "how are you"? No attention was given to me, so it feels unnatural to show interest in others, even if I know intelectually people do that. Secondly, I don't think anybody wants my attention and I don't feel important enough to engage them. I have no social life since I take the smallest amount of space. People were making fun of how silent kid I was, but it was reflection of how silent I HAD TO BE, and secondly being ignored everywhere as the "weird kid" I didn't have the social fuel, energy must flow and as you are being ignored/neglected you don't receive the energy to give it further to others. That's a huge missing puzzle cause there's no just "abused child" that needs healing, the "invisible child" needs it too.
You're so right... I can relate to this. I was emotionally deprived/stunted by them. Retreated inside my imaginary world and quite content by myself.
My parents focused on their careers and identities/personas around their careers (intellectual academics). They seemed chronically overwhelmed and unsatisfied with their two kids (brother and me). I remember around 8 or so, realizing that if I wanted some time and attention from my father, I’d need to ask him questions about himself-then he’d stick around and talk to me 😀. My mother was downright cruel-whenever I had something to say, it wasn’t good enough, special enough, etc.
I’ve gotten much less tolerant of giving people my attention when they don’t reciprocate-I just don’t make the effort anymore. But I still have the belief that my thoughts, my life, are not worth mentioning, and it feels very risky and stressful when I do actually communicate openly. This is such a handicap in the workplace!
Jay, I always feel so hurt and angry while watching your videos as they constantly bring to light ways I was devalued and discarded that I did not even recognize as such as I didn't know anything else. I have to watch your videos in stops and starts just to process what I am learning. You help me uncover things I didn't even know I needed to uncover. Thank you for your contributions, they are so very much appreciated as you provide a perspective and insight that no one else has. I hope you know how much you are helping others. Intellectually I understand that I may have value but emotionally I do not feel this, it is a real struggle that I am working on overcoming and your videos combined with therapy are helping but it is really hard and I am frequently discouraged by how hard I have to keep working on telling myself I am not worthless. I wish I could just wake up one morning and all this would be behind me or that I could outrun it. Thanks again!
I'm experiencing it in exactly the same way! I am always late in commenting because I need to process so much. So many awful memories! And every time I tried to explain something to my mother, she never understood or she said I must have understood that situation wrong or she couldn't remember. It makes me feel sick and I don't want to see her ever again!
@@dagmaranja888 i feel the same... even that she tries to be "nicer" now... no no no... too much pain.
Thank you for helping me try to make sense of all the pain and confusion that comes with narcissism.
I haven't ever thought about the total indifference from my family about everything 😕
I realized this when most of my happiest memories as a child were alone (playing alone. drawing alone. on the computer alone) -- at least I enjoy my company but I doubt anyone else could
I retired after a lengthy career and my family said nothing. Nothing at all.
@@TheQueensWish Jerks. Congratulations on your retirement.
@@angelika87same
I feel like I was just a product of what people do after they get married….like I was just there to make my parents look “normal”. To be seen but not heard I guess. I was also sheltered a lot more than my brother because I was the girl. My dad was the big 6’5 jock guy and they put my brother in a lot of sports to try and make themselves look good but I was not allowed to do anything. My parents basically shoved me in my room and I remember I played with my Barbie’s a lot. They did provide a nice home but it was also full of explosive anger from my father, vacations that were also full of explosive anger from my father, and money when I needed it but usually it was just to get me out of their hair or because they felt bad. After my mom died and my dad remarried an even bigger narcissist than he is I left the family.
Despite deprivation and devaluation regularly deployed by my borderline/narcissist mom I still managed to pursue talents and hobbies.
During middle school I was passed up for a solo in the school concert choir. My best friend’s mom drove me and her to the choir concert. During the drive to the school for the choir performance later that evening I sang the solo as I sat in the backseat. My friend’s mom shared her disappointment with me once I finished the solo. She thought my voice was superior and that I deserved the solo. Her reaction contrasted with my mom’s. My mom had concluded it was my fault for not getting the solo. She claimed to have run into my choir teacher outside of school. During this encounter the choir teacher volunteered the reason I was passed up for the solo. Her reason was I was too unpredictable and the choir teacher gave the solo to the less talented student. I remember how gleeful my mom was when recounted this story to me. She kept insisting I was to blame and would regularly remind me of my failure in subsequent years. My mom would use this solo experience as evidence that I needed correction, that it was proof that I was defective furthering her false narrative of my character.
Wow what a piece of work she is. . I’m so sorry. Isn’t that something? When you experience a real mother ( your friends mom) caring about you, advocating for you? It was very strange for me. Once I had a bad bicycle accident near a friends house. Her mother was home and was horrified and wanted to call my mother as she was cleaning blood out of my hair and applying ice to my bloody swollen face. I didn’t want her to call my mom but I could barely walk, as my knee was mangled really bad. My mother came and ordered me to get in the car. My friends mom helped me walk to it. I was ashamed to be harshly reprimanded in front of my friends mom. That day My mom made me mow our yard with a push mower and no bandaid to cover my gaping wounded knee. She allowed my brothers to kick stomp on my knee that same day because I didn’t get out of their way. She made me go to school the next day with a huge fat lip. What a piece of work.
@@joellenklemek138 I’m so sorry you experienced this. It’s been my experience that when I was vulnerable or injured my mom would amplify her abuse.
I agree that I would feel embarrassed when empathy or care was directed my way. I felt undeserving of this kindness from teachers or friends parents. I remember the adult providing this comfort had a look of horror at my resistance to allow them to help me. My mom professed to be an overprotective mother. While she didn’t neglect us when it came to medical care, I still waited way too long to tell her I had an injury. I always feared I would get in trouble and often concealed normal childhood bumps and scrapes.
I hope you found people who cared about once you got older. Your mother was a special kind of cruel
@@taniabluebell3099 thanks. 🥲It feels so good and makes me cry now, whenever someone declares that my abusers are bad people. That they are the jerks that they are. Thank you so much! It really means the world to me. And I hope you know that I 100% see your mom as a horrible human! Shame on her for harming you and robbing your rightful blessings from you. She is disgusting for what she did to you.
@@joellenklemek138 Likewise. I’m happy you are getting the validation that was denied during your youth.
There is a happy story. My mom did not prevail. While I did give up singing during high school I resumed this talent by taking a voice class as an elective in college. I joined a young adult choir and gradually worked my way to singing solos. I remember how much my mom liked the attention she was receiving when people approached her to share how much they liked my singing voice. As she lapped up the attention I stood nearby watching her and thought to myself “if only you knew how much she mocked and discouraged me behind closed doors”.
@@taniabluebell3099 and how jealous she was if you getting to have your gift. And how much she tried to kill your gift and relished in destroying it. If only the truth of how depraved and sadistic she was to you were exposed. If only everyone could see how pathetic she was to be jealous and competitive with her own child.
I hope she knows that you know how pathetic she is. And I hope she knows she is now powerless to conquer and exploit and mock you. I hope she fears your power to own your superiority over her.
Being the scapegoat is the worst torment.
I'm still trying to find a way to feel good again and distance from them and their ugly entitlement.
Thank you so much for sharing these videos. Being a scapegoated child of a narcissistic mother, I chronically doubt myself and especially blame myself for all the things I did but didn't want to do growing up, even with therapy and years of reading on the subject of narcissism, but your explanations and choice of words are so clear and thoughtful that I feel like I truly get it
I know this is all based on science, but I find it interesting that you chose "Joseph," as a fictional character's name having being familiar with the story of Joseph in the Qur'an and Bible. This was spot on with what I experienced with my mother. No contact for two years now, and I am finally starting to accept my true identity as a good natured, well-meaning, and kind human-being who deserves love, respect, and validation. Thank you for making this video!
Spot on, Jay. You absolutely articulate this dynamic, even down to the elimination of "hope" - which I intentionally chose to never say or feel at the age of 8. I've been way too close to my own experience for language. My development was confounded by a single parent who hides behind a DID diagnosis, loved me for my naivete, exploited my drive for love, endangered me, and sabotaged my every effort for individuation. In adulthood, when I shared my diagnosis of cancer, she changed the subject and showed zero interest - when I confronted her, she blamed me for not comforting her as she was "in shock". I did not personalize shame or worthlessness. I do connect with "invisibility", being shunned, and definitely "uninteresting". Accused of malintent when I've risen above it - my expression of concern, caring, and respect in her elder years is received as threats - and I recognize this as one of her "tells". With more life behind me than ahead of me, I want to live proactively without a trace of her. HUGE TASK. Jay, thank you for addressing how it affects us and how we can heal, rather than deconstructing the "mastermind". Your insight and professionalism has stirred hope in me.
The feeling I have isn't so much that I am not good enough or that I am uninteresting - instead, I feel CURSED. It doesn't matter that I am doing as well or better than others or that I know rationally I am in a safe place with safe people, I cannot get over the feeling that at any minute my joy, contentment, pride or peace will be taken away from me - and for no justifiable reason. And that I am supposed to just deal with it as just that is the way it is and not be so entitled as to be upset about it. I know that for a fact this is a reflection of childhood dynamics where I would outdo a number of my siblings (I am from a huge Catholic family) but it didn't matter. As the scapegoat, my accomplishments would be belittled or I wouldn't be allowed to continue in something (apparently because I wasn't supposed to stand out as an individual). It is really tiring feeling like I constantly navigate and being stuck in this purgatory-like middleground where I'm not to complain, but I am also not to be happy.
I had a very sadistic and paranoid mother. She was very jealous if I got to experience friendships and popularity when I was a teenager. In order to escape the dungeon of my home so that I could socialize, I had to tell lies and even involve my friends and and random classmates to participate in lies. Just so I could go out of my house. She hated that I had friendships with other teenage girls. She would say they “don’t have good parental guidance”. The only way I could sneak out of the house was (at age 14 15 16 & 17) if I had a date with a boy. I was not allowed to go out with friends but was allowed to date boys (but never a double date with a girlfriend of mine of course). I had to manipulate and use boys who had crushes on me to pick me up for a date and then ditch them for my girlfriends.
What type of inner core believe did I developed in order to do this? I think the inner core belief is that “ I am bad. I am a bad girl”.
I want to add that I had 5 other siblings. I was the scapegoat, the only child whose friends all had “poor parental guidance”. The main golden child was my sister who was 15 months older than me. My mother wanted her to be more popular than me. My GC sister would also participate in the lies to help me escape from our bizarre emotionally harmful home. She would help by having her friends and boy friends pretend to take us out on double dates and then drop me off with my girlfriends.
So what belief was I inventing to make this all work function and make sense?
One more thing to add. In a previous video Jay told the story of a boy who was ashamed that his mother was emotionally sadistic to him and when a good friend invited him over to watch football he made up a lie that he had other plans and then he distanced from the good friend in order to avoid the shame of having a mother who would deliberately prevent and sabotage his friendship.
I also was very ashamed that my mother would say my girlfriends had “poor parental guidance”. I lied to them about the reason I needed them to help sneak me out by pretending I was going in a date. I never told them the truth, that my mother didn’t approve of them and their parents.
This is my exact experience
@@erikavaleries really??? Oh my gosh. Poor you! I thought my moms sadism for me was the most bizarre thing. I never dreamed anyone else could even believe it let alone experience the same.
I requested to be placed in foster care and my mom agreed but my dad said no and made her go to counciling. She had some type of paranoid personality and she projected her delusional suspicions on me and a few other targets outside of our family.
Did your mother ever get a diagnosis? Was she also very racist and sexist? Mine is and was. She has dementia now - 84yrs old.
I had a mother very similar to yours, she was very jealous, and I was denied girlfriends yet could date. Also if I ever wanted to go somewhere where people my age would attend like dances at the beach, just go to the beach etc., her comment was always 'Only sluts go there'. I sometimes wondered how she knew that. She often talked about her own pleasure at going to local dances herself as a teenager. I find Jay Reid so helpful.
I never really experienced love, support and safety - but I have experienced lot of trauma. If I talk about it, I just experience more devaluation, more gaslighting = more trauma
After 6 years of therapy, this man is the only one to sum up so many things about why I hold myself back. Definitely gotta buy that book
Right I hate attention of any type now I can’t stand it
This is such a perfect description of devaluation and projection
Yes. Im 51 and still catching lightning in a bottle. I know my brilliance is in there- I know it but, its stymied, that somehow by the echoes of the uninterested voices of childhood
I think this is common for adult survivors of childhood maltreatment. Mine comes out in bursts.
When people spend time with me, I always feel like it's because they have nothing better to do and would rather be with anyone else if they had the choice 😢
Narcissts destroy our talents and make us boring person
In a professional way yes. I do not know why I would be a better candidate than any other candidate. In fact, I think, 'they'd probably be better. I need to get all of my answers straight in my head now.
*"The result can be the child expects others to react with hostility for them just for existence"*
WoW. I've always felt: why would people like/love me, when they can group harass me? I could tell myself that people are nice and for sure they'll like me, but deep inside it just didn't make sense. What would they gain by liking me instead of abuse? And it's not self hate or insecurity. It's simply that I was never safe in any relationship so the idea of people "liking me" for nothing seems surreal. I haven't heard anybody talking about the weird feeling I had since early teen.
I feel you. Exatly my thinking, but then I do question my thoughts. Only people who feel bad harass others. So it's on them, not me. My relife has been that eventuelly I pursied though it feels unnatural bc I know some like and valde me. I struggle still with valuing myself, it's an uncredible amount of work put to becoming to tell myself I am valuable and I deserve what I want (knowing what I want is also something I have to work for). It axosties my sometimes, what I presume comes just natural to others, but avoid comparison. Find relife in aco-meetings and wonderfull meditations. "Go where you are welcomed, not where you are tolerated" there is a lot of throuth in that. I try to catch myself when I look down when meeting people. I don't know anymore what I'm coming to but tell yourself you are worthy every day and tast how that feels ❤ :-) bc you are worthy and you are intressant. Go on, eventuelly momentum you start attracting people whom you think I'll see where this goes, and take it slow.Pursue intrest. And feel there is nothing wrong with me, I just hade family that was hurt and therefore incapsble of love. I had more luck than them bc I look at myself and challenge my primed belives which were put in my mind - they are not belives coming from me. Always have compassion for yourself when you trip and have compassion for others. Love :-)
I use a fake persona because I fear being seen as boring. Because that's how I experience myself.
Holy crap. You are very good at what you do.
It is so frustrating that I cannot afford your services.
The nuanced understanding is so validating. I’ve recovered alone before finding this channel and realised every aspect of jays approach along the way . I still didn’t quite believe myself and this channel is like a witness to it all. I’m through the other side of the trauma and just looking for answer how to live for myself and be motivated by my own best interest thus is my struggle now.
I completely get this with two entitled sisters and enabling parents who both had narcissistic traits I became an avid reader shut off from life and airing any real ideas or opinions for fear of ridicule or rejection. Hence i was reading books like Jane Eyre by the age of 11. This kind of saved me as over the years i received support in the world of academia and from kind caring intelligent teachers. However i still really struggle to introduce my opinions and ideas if the spotlight is on me. Its almost as if any ideas are enveloped in a brain fog that I just cant shake and at such times i have difficulty remembering my name! Meanwhile my sisters can sing solo on a stage to a packed audience and in intimate settings!! You couldnt script it! Once again thanks Jay I am angry but it a constructive anger coupled with determination to move forward 🧡
I have this brain fog too. I believe the maltreatment suffered has made it harder to learn things. I know it takes me longer to grasp things and I am quite intelligent. I found the anger, at times, life-saving. xo
This is me!..Thank you for helping me try to make sense of how I feel. Thank you🙏
I had this type of upbringing, yet I feel egotistical, and often whenever I’ve shared something that I know is interesting, I get the leader of the group loudly saying, “Nobody cares.” It’s happened to me from classmates and teachers as a kid, and from coworkers and supervisors at work.
Here’s the thing, though, I know that I am the interesting one with very interesting things to say and stories to tell, while most around me are boring and dull.
But their expressions of indifference sting nevertheless.
I wish I could get my words out and be assertive enough to stand up and loudly reply to them, “ Okay, wise guy, let’s see if you have anything more interesting to say, other than the vapid celebrity gossip you always talk about.”
Jay, I hope one day, you’ll do a video about being more assertive without alienating everyone and creating enemies and escalating things, because that’s what usually happens to me whenever I try to assert myself….that is during those rare moments when I can even get my words out because I’m too shocked at the response to my attempts to get positive attention and get the opposite of what I’d hoped for..
It’s like I just can’t find the words and I’m all choked up because I’m in freeze mode.
@@diatribe5 omg i can relate to this. i think it might honestly be in part a problem of being high IQ and surrounded by idiots who can't even comprehend yet alone appreciate your level of intelligence. genuinely.
I can't gain distance cause I have no money. My narcissists are very dangerous. I live in a dangerous corrupt country with no human rights so I have to be careful around my narcissists
Please take good care of yourself. You are worthy. xo
Believe that better days are coming ❤ focus on the positive for now.
This video makes me sad but also frees me. Thank you so much for your kind way of telling difficult truth.
very enlighteningly expressed by Jay Reid here. Jay you are an articulate explainer of some very detailed difficult material and felt /experienced ideas and relationships. Thankyou.
Thank you so much for your understanding and support for the scapegoated child. Everything you've said here rings true for me.
Thank you!!!
It was interesting, the other day I was trying to connect with my inner child- at first it felt weird because my inner child felt like she wasn't worth listening to, and that she wasn't interesting or needing attention. This really hit the nail on the head of this feeling. Thanks Jay :)
Spot on. I recognize myself in this, much food for thought
Thank you, I needed this.
I always felt like my parents were popular kids that I wasn’t cool enough for. I felt like a blemish most of the time that they were trying to ignore or hide, except occasionally when I served a purpose to make them look good. One of my earliest memories is being told by my dad “children are to be seen and not heard”. After watching this video I realized it was also my last experience with him. He just wanted me there, but wasn’t interested in connecting with me. Just there to support him. How would it look if your child isn’t there with you when you are dying in the hospital and 100’s of people are coming to visit? That wouldn’t LOOK GOOD! Oh no, we can’t have that! He preferred talking to the nurse he just met rather than me. This video connected significant dots that several therapists did not. Thanks so much for doing these incredibly insightful videos!
thank you so much for your work and this channel - it has been transformative in processing what is was like in my house growing up. your videos have helped me remember my size, and i feel so ready to live freely.
You are so welcome!
I have learned so much from this channel in the 1 week since youtube threw it my way. Some of things I didn't even were connected to me being the scapegoat actually are.The subject of this video is so real for me. I'm 50 and still have the belief that people won't find me interesting, so I don't socialize. Even though I long for people to hear me, I am ashamed when they actually do, like somewhere deep down I don't feel I deserve it. I think they're going to find I am a poor excuse for a person. On top of everything I am a partially disable adult, I have epilepsy (which my parents ignored and never me took me a doctor) and had to leave an abusive marriage. During that time I couldn't work and had to go back to my parents, of all people. Now that I can work rent is impossibly high and I feel stuck here against my will. So I now I live with that shame too, on top of being stuck in a toxic situation.
Thank you.
I literally can't talk about myself unless asked directly about a particular thing (like talking about my skills in a job interview) or talking about a shared event and/or interest. I can't even answer my German teacher's "How's your day been so far?" even though I know the main reason for the question is to get me talking. Having positive experiences might've helped if I could just Make. Myself. Talk. I hate my brain sometimes.
its not your fault.
This is exactly what cropped up, for me, during an interview this week. I can relate to this video and it has helped to make sense of my reactions. Thank you.
Thank you so much Jay. I am learning a lot. It is helping me heal
The universe has a funny way of delivering just what you need at the right time..... :) so happy to find this video in my inbox this morning...it's exactly the next layer I need to unravel. Thanks Jay - you explain this really well. I don't currently have a therapist....how would you suggest I look at this by myself?
Thank you, finally I know why.
This video was really Helpful 👏🏽Thank you
Thank you for this video
My father, grandmother, grandfather, also all my npd relatives and npd people who I met later, did this to me.
I feel like I've done all 3 halfway. I feel stuck like I cannot do it fully. On step 1 there are things I don't remember that I really really wish I could remember so that I can make FULL sense of everything. I have a huge question that I need answered....how do I tap into my memory to answer it.....or is there another way of answering my own question?
Thank you , you're so right about everything. Its so true. I enjoy watching your videos. I am a 47 female who got C-Ptsd from the abuse. I am Empath , i am the oldest out of five children my parents had. I always been the black sheep in my family. I went to Jesus cause of the abuse. Jesus is our hope. God is Love. I been a Christian for over ten years. I know my worth and values. My peace come from God. God is great all the time. Both of my parents are Narcissists so is my grandmother. My brothers and sisters are Narcissists Enablers.
Narcissists are liars
Narcissists are broken people
Narcissists always act like they are the victim
Narcissists are insecure people
Narcissists never loved us at all
Narcissists dont care about us at all
Narcissists are pure evil souls from the Devil
Narcissists are fake and phony people
Narcissists dont know how to Love at all
I think most of the time I’m buried under the belief that I don’t even desire attention from others. Even the idea of wanting attention is so far outside my consciousness. Years ago when social media exploded, i never joined Facebook. It’s deeply confusing to me, because all I imagine is painful experience after painful experience. Just another facet of my life that I can fill the role of outsider or loser.
When I’m around others, I’m almost always projecting out of defensiveness, and i DO often get rejection or disinterest from them. How do I see that as evidence that I’m not being authentic? My brain wants to use the rejection as evidence of “even when I try to be acceptable, i am still unacceptable.” But it’s actually the defensiveness that people are reacting to. It’s so hard to love myself through this process when I seems like I’m intentionally making myself unloveable. I know I can’t help it but i feel SO SURE that it’s my choice and my fault.
How painful! I hope you will keep working at it. There may be another factor in play. I’ll try to describe it. For me, I am very hyper vigilant of people hurting me in all the various ways (disrespect degrade use dislike condescend disregard ignor snub rudeness etc..). I think by being over watchful and noticing of the tiniest mail-traits I overlook good normal decent people (which most people are). I think that when I am visiting or around people I am hunting for something not nice to come out. If nothing does I am bored and very awkward and , as you say - and how I relate is the awkwardness may be a fear that they don’t like me or are uninterested. When I am treated poorly, I am the opposite of awkward. I know how to live and behave around bad behavior and treatment. Maybe that’s why I’m hyper vigilant for it. Almost like it gives me something to then interact with. I was terribly scapegoated throughout my whole development. It’s a daunting thing to try to change our inner involuntary core system of beliefs that our whole personality/psychology is built upon. I don’t know the way how, but I believe it is possible. I know it’s possible so I hope and I will try to undo mine and re-develop it for my own good. And I pray for you also to be freed from the painful inner believes that served to keep you alive as a powerless and dependent child. God bless you and help to free you from the pain. May you and I both be fortunate enough to heal and to allow ourselves to live in the freedom and joy of all our beautiful gifts!
@@joellenklemek138 Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. It rings true for me in my life. I feel like my only usefulness is to be a scapegoat for others to attack. So when that's not happening, i don't know how to be or how to interact. It's totally true. I don't remember how i used to do small talk, i just can't anymore. It's like I'm paralyzed. Being rejected by my own parents made me completely forget how to be a human.
I know that relaxing my hypervigilence is key, but i can't seem to actually self soothe in those moments. It's usually all a blur and I'm not entirely present or self aware in those times. I hate myself for my reactions which makes the next time even worse. The patterns seem like a part of me, like they ARE me.
Thank you for the encouragement. I do have faith that i will be able to see reality and myself clearly someday. It's worth it to keep trying to connect with kind decent people like you.
🌷Thank you, for this message. It helpful and hopeful.
Great video Jay
Thank you!
So helpful as usual 🌼 I wonder if this leads to dopamine issues, when there is no reward, only punishment. These people are so self centered they their children's center to be THEM.... healthy self esteem you are at center but facing outwards for connection w others and honor of other's center as well... they are so turned inward they can only see and feel themselves :( and this can be trained institutionally as well... the military doesnt train you to control your emotions but to think youre controlling them by denying them (out of safety necessity)... stranglely enough things were much worse for me and my interactions w family after the military... because Id learned how to hold my feelings at bay and be "logical"... before the military I had proper rebelliob because they created feelings so painful. New age/religion--same business... but it was the military that did the work to me.
After out of devasting stint in military, I found a paper written by my mother from a psychology class.... where she detailed step by step how she manipulated me into joining. I was on my own doing ok and they just couldnt have that. I'd never wanted to join... emotional and artistic and peaceful. They got the military to break in me what they couldnt---because I had no other choice there. Military is narcissism writ large. Understanding is healing and freeing. We NEED connection to our negative emotions to get away from abuse. Im now optimistic not positive or negative... one needs to see clearly and FEEL clearly, connected to oneself and Creator to truly be ALIVE ... nothing in past is wasted... all incredibly valuable lessons to help all the rest of this life's NOWS and to help others by sharing in whatever ways we can. This journey is hard but SO GOOD and so Spiritual. Wonderful how a new persoective can shine truth on a thousand lies.
and I might add that interested is different than feeling worthy or SAFE to be intertested in one's own life and life development... narcisistic perspectives will reflect anger if someone has goals, self esteem anything that takes away from their superiority... sexism/racism is the same... what's interesting is that although I wasnt allowed to be interested in myself... I became interestef in study and life itself... being always called stupid, I had that littlw work around :) ok, Im not book smart (I was though) but Im INTERESTED and CURIOUS ... and I kept that to myself... my teachers loved me but I wasnt interested in grades... shining the light of interest and curiosity on my own life now too ⛵
I don't want them to think I'm interesting I want my family to stay out of my biz. They never have anything good to say or offer. As the scapegoat they only bring misery. Much happier alone or with family you build..
I have suspected for many years that my Dad has had a problem with my very existence since my birth. My Mom's best friend used to tell my sister and me that my sister was the one who was more verbally inquisitive and that I would physically explore and get into things more and she said at least one time in particular I was playing with a potted plant and my Dad said to my Mom "Joyce, she's testing me...." That story never felt like a funny family story but instead I think I've always known that my Dad has completely disliked me since the beginning. Could my Dad have picked up on qualities of mine that triggered him even when I was under 2 years old?
$500 for the online course. Sad. That’s more than most Americans have saved for an emergency (
bro tfw who doesnt live like this. i have at no point i am a adult now failing to launch. who has parents that help them thats funny concept to me. excluding here is some stuff. for me i call it the cost of doing business 10:50 i will not get my needs met and i will be left in lurch. and thats the cost of me saying no or doing bounderies or telling them to fuck off with assertiveness.