I hope any church that is forced to close will look DEEPLY into the original deeds and conditions. I am aware of 3 UMC churches that have closed where the land was donated and conditions were set if the church ever closed, that the property MUST be sold to another Christian church. The UMC tried to cover that up. One church in West Virginia was valued at 3 million and the UMC had a buyer (a car dealership next door). When they went to close it was discovered that the original deed had conditions that it MUST be sold to another church, and the deal fell thru. A Baptist church was able to buy it for a mere 300,000 dollars. The same thing happened in South Carolina, The property was valued in the millions, but they had to sell it to a Free Methodist church for pennies on the dollar. Perhaps a few churches who desire to leave, might discover such a condition in their old deed and reap the benefit, and member can form a corporation and buy it outright for next to nothing, as well as keep the real monetary value from funding the UMC. if your church is older than 75 years LOOK!
I'll play devil's advocate here... About 15 years ago there was a church closed against their will nearby, by the conference. There was an article in the local newspaper with lots of accusations from the congregation about how they didn't see it coming and couldn't believe the conference could do this... The comment from the conference was that it was closed because it wasn't financially viable or something close to that affect. The real reason it was closed was because the utilities were being shut off, the insurance had lapsed, and the other church in the charge had been paying the pastors salary for almost 18 months. The conference put the building on the market and years later sold it for a few thousand dollars. All that said, I'm skeptical of newspaper articles... There is often much more to the story
It sure would be nice to know whether this congregation was financially viable. Were they able to compensate a pastor, pay their insurance premiums, maintain their building, etc. What was their worship attendance? How far away is the next UMC congregation? The brief news article leaves me with more questions than answers. It's always sad to see a church close, but there isn't enough info here to know who to blame.
It's got to be frustrating and disheartening to lose a lovely, historic building like that, but it is precisely in times of ecclesiological crisis like now that folks need to be clear on the distinction between a church building and a church. The denomination may have the power to seize or sell a church building, but they can't force any church to dissolve.
I don't think John Wesley meant for the trust clause to be used this way. I recently attended a former UMC church that was closed by the conference. They had to buy it back having just built a fellowship hall. They seem to have a healthy church.
@@plainspokenpod can't include links in YT comments. How would you like me to share all the links with you? And to be clear, the ones I'm talking about are run-of-the-mill closures, not Conference dictated closures.
Dont apologize...it comes off as insecure. Be solid in your mission, brother. To those traditional United Methodists who chose to remain even as their brothers and sisters became shaken in spirit and with broken resolve chose to save themselves leaving their fellow disciples abandoned, this information is vital. Providing that information from the bleachers is nothing for which you need apologize.
Excellent prayer... Amen
I hope any church that is forced to close will look DEEPLY into the original deeds and conditions. I am aware of 3 UMC churches that have closed where the land was donated and conditions were set if the church ever closed, that the property MUST be sold to another Christian church. The UMC tried to cover that up. One church in West Virginia was valued at 3 million and the UMC had a buyer (a car dealership next door). When they went to close it was discovered that the original deed had conditions that it MUST be sold to another church, and the deal fell thru. A Baptist church was able to buy it for a mere 300,000 dollars. The same thing happened in South Carolina, The property was valued in the millions, but they had to sell it to a Free Methodist church for pennies on the dollar. Perhaps a few churches who desire to leave, might discover such a condition in their old deed and reap the benefit, and member can form a corporation and buy it outright for next to nothing, as well as keep the real monetary value from funding the UMC. if your church is older than 75 years LOOK!
wonderful!
I'll play devil's advocate here... About 15 years ago there was a church closed against their will nearby, by the conference. There was an article in the local newspaper with lots of accusations from the congregation about how they didn't see it coming and couldn't believe the conference could do this... The comment from the conference was that it was closed because it wasn't financially viable or something close to that affect.
The real reason it was closed was because the utilities were being shut off, the insurance had lapsed, and the other church in the charge had been paying the pastors salary for almost 18 months.
The conference put the building on the market and years later sold it for a few thousand dollars.
All that said, I'm skeptical of newspaper articles... There is often much more to the story
There are a lot of things I could say but wont. This is just very sad.
It sure would be nice to know whether this congregation was financially viable. Were they able to compensate a pastor, pay their insurance premiums, maintain their building, etc. What was their worship attendance? How far away is the next UMC congregation? The brief news article leaves me with more questions than answers.
It's always sad to see a church close, but there isn't enough info here to know who to blame.
It's got to be frustrating and disheartening to lose a lovely, historic building like that, but it is precisely in times of ecclesiological crisis like now that folks need to be clear on the distinction between a church building and a church. The denomination may have the power to seize or sell a church building, but they can't force any church to dissolve.
I don't think John Wesley meant for the trust clause to be used this way. I recently attended a former UMC church that was closed by the conference. They had to buy it back having just built a fellowship hall. They seem to have a healthy church.
More than Dover. There are a slew of closed UMCs reported on PNJ over the past month or so.
I’ll report on each one if you can get me names and an article written about it or other documentation I can show…
@@plainspokenpod can't include links in YT comments. How would you like me to share all the links with you? And to be clear, the ones I'm talking about are run-of-the-mill closures, not Conference dictated closures.
Well, there are almost 20 thousand other Christian churches they can go to who will be glad to have you.
Dont apologize...it comes off as insecure. Be solid in your mission, brother.
To those traditional United Methodists who chose to remain even as their brothers and sisters became shaken in spirit and with broken resolve chose to save themselves leaving their fellow disciples abandoned, this information is vital.
Providing that information from the bleachers is nothing for which you need apologize.
Gonna cover the NC Appellate court's reversal of the lower court's decision against 5th Ave.?
I found an article about it. Not much to go on. Will look for a more solid base to report about it.
@plainspokenpod there's a few articles out there and one of them has the entire ruling from the appellate court.
I’m so sorrowful that a supposed brother in Christ would place themselves above the Church. 😢
You mean like Martin Luther did?
I’m so sorrowful a supposed Church of God would use hostile takeover tactics on a local congregation for their own financial benefit 😢