I was a 10 year student of Joe Allard,; he advocated soaking the reed in water before you play them, then saliva after that. The reason is that the cane has been cultivated through irrigation or natural rain both being the sources of water. As the cane is dried before being formed into a reed, the phloem and zylem tubes contract from lack of water, but they are still present. So when you first are going to use the reed it will absorb more moisture than at any other time during its life span and these tubes will expand again. If you are worried about the Ph or chemicals in the water, remember that these factors were not controlled during the growing process. In fact to minimize the problem you can use distilled water for the first soaking. I have followed this procedure for over 50 years of playing and have had no problems with either useful life of the reed or reed response other than not every reed in a box is a winner! As you mentioned this is controversial, and what ever works for you is great.
Thanks so much for this great comment! 10 years with Joe Allard and 50 years on the sax, power to you!! Thanks for sharing the bit on reeds being able to soak the most water up on their initial soak, as well as the phloem and zylem tubes expanding to their natural state upon the initial soak. Great stuff!
You can't avoid your reeds coming in contact with saliva anyway, so it's really silly to worry about the 2 minutes contact with saliva before you play and the play for an hour or so where they'll be in constant contact with your saliva. On the other hand probably the water doesn't do much harm either if you play after watering.
Excellent video! I love that you’ve taken this to a scientific level, to convey why water is less practical than saliva. Thank You for all the detailed informations! 😊
The band director Mr. Poole at my school was telling me today that you should soak it for about 30 seconds and he also said that saliva is more bad because of its enzymes that break down food but if it's in water then that's what causes mold and and all that!!!!!!🎷🎷🎷👍👍👍
@Kevin Bene Thanks for the informative video mate. I currently soak my reeds in water and do have a challenge with reed warping, so will try your saliva method to see if that helps. Which reed case do you use to prevent warping after practice please ? Looks like you've rigged up something clever yourself in the video ? Many thanks for your reply, Joe :)
Thanks for the comment, glad the video helped! I am going to do a video on how I store my reeds soon. But the gist is that I use a humidity pack made by Boveda, I use 75%. And then I put the reeds and humidity pack in a container that is very closed yet not airtight. A photo box is what I use... Will explain more in depth in video soon!
Great question! Personally I soak reeds extremely briefly, no more than a minute in my mouth. But I try and make sure not to play on brand new reeds for too long, no more than 10 minutes. Then let them rest until they dry completely and do the same thing for a few days, 3-5 days depending on how the Reed breaks in.
If you made an x-ray slow motion video of a reed when it is vibrating, how will the tubes inside of it be? Will the moisturizing of it before playing seal the openings so it will be dry inside, or will the moisturized ends of it just make it easier for the salvia to go through the tubes and soak them? What is it that makes them flexible?
Well at the beginning reeds will just keep taking on moisture all the way through by just simply playing on them long enough. I don't like playing on water logged reeds so I break them in, play them only a little bit in the beginning to make sure the saliva does not soak completely through. Doing this conditions the reed. Reeds are flexible simply because they are made from cane, a very very flexible yet rigid plant. It's a type of grass with lignin, as I say in the video.
So to clean my Reed's and to even bring them back to life once a week I soak my Reed's in a mixture of half Listerine and half hydrogen peroxide any opinions on that?
Hey Rylan.. so the thing with hydrogen peroxide and Listerine is that they are quite acidic. Listerine has a ph of 4 and depending on the strength of Hydrogen Peroxide, I'm quite sure it can be even more acidic. Now if you are trying to revive a reed from mold, this can sometimes work (I have never had any luck though). A brief soaking in these solutions probably would be fine, but if you leave reeds in these solutions I find that they loose their spring and become quite buzzy and dead sounding. Now I do know a few reed players that leave their reeds soaked in Listerine all the time and it works for them, never hydrogen peroxide though. One of my past teachers and phenomenal jazz saxophonist, Steve Wilson, would keep his reeds soaked all the time in a solution of Listerine and water to cut the acidity of the Listerine down. This keep reeds from warping as well as bacteria free. I have experiment with that, but you get water logged reeds and to me they sound dead.. works for some but not for me. So if Listerine is used I would recommend diluting it. Long explanation here, hopefully it helps!!
Isn't it funny that it took me here 2u Kevin(3yrs later) while searching info on soaking wicker chair "reeds" but just b4 looking up reeds i was online reading abt Tim Cappello, Tina Turner's sax player, watched her bio & been to her concert yrs back me, me & my hubby r fans of Cappello, so let me add you are wonderful player Kevin best of luck in life 🍀 ...isn't life funny 😍
Actually, most tap water has a LOT more calcium that saliva, causing reeds to get brittle, and saliva doesn't prevent the growth of any nasty things in your reeds. However, I see no reason why you should NOT put the reeds in your mouth to get them wet. After all, when you're playing you also soak the reed with a LOT of saliva. So even if you soak the reeds in tap water, after you're done playing, they'll have just as much saliva as when you soak them in your mouth. My personal preference is to just put the reed in my mouth. Not only is it the only way I can be sure I don't drop it, it also warms the reed, and as we all know, temperature affects the tone. I think it keeps the tone more consistent if you soak the reed in your mouth. So I don't agree on your view as to why tap water is bad, but I do agree on how to soak your reeds ;)
Ronald Delvax great comment and points, thanks! I could definitely see tap water, depending on your source, having more calcium then saliva. I am not saying that saliva will completely block all microorganisms to grow, in fact there is no way to resist growth completely. But salvia is better at fighting the bacteria that will cause your reeds to mold then normal tap water. Plus you don’t risk the reed from water logging when you soak the reed in your mouth, so that will help keep the nasties away as well.
Hello. I can say with great joy that this video saved me. I spent 10 years suffering with reeds here, they were bending while I played, and I could never imagine that it was the fact that I was soacking them in the water before playing that was the cause of this problem. Anyway, after everything was going well, something happened and i need help. I recently bought a vandorem reed case that keeps it moist. They say to complete with water in the sponge when it turns blue. Could this moisture coming from the sponge also harm, warp my reed? Since it is to be completed with tap water. I noticed that the reeds were different after I started using this case. Is that a curse on me? lol. But I would like someone to please help me in this regard. Thank you very much.
Hmm, all that case is doing is making a more humid environment, usually shouldn't cause too much trouble as long as it is not too humid, which shouldn't be the case with that case. You could simply just not like the sound/feel of a reed that is in a more humid environment. I prefer to use humidity packs, I change from 62% to 75% (sometimes in between) depending on time of year. Sometimes the 75% during summer months makes my read a bit too humid and I do not like the sound of them.
Thanks for the comment! I do keep my reeds in a holder, a humidity controlled case actually, will do a video about it soon! Sax is a Yamaha Custom EX and mouthpiece is a Berg Larsen 120/1.
@@blueeyedsoulman yes the tip opening is big, I am considering coming down to a 100 or something to make things a little easier, but my 120 has a certain vibe that I like. In this video I am using a 2.5 Light Rigotti Classic Reed. But I also have been using 3 and 3.5 Rigotti Jazz cuts lately.
Hogan Records thanks for the comment! Yes good point, but your saliva will be diluted with water and not be as effective, plus saliva will only hit the tip of the reed, or the part of the reed that is in your mouth mostly. But the main point is that there will just be too much water to saliva ratio to make the saliva effective. This is just my opinion and what I have theorized!!
Jarold you are correct that water does have added chemicals to thwart off microbials. But they are not strong enough when you have a soaked reed I find. Tap water by itself is quite good at keeping bacteria away, but the addition of the organic material from the reed gives bacteria the food that it needs to thrive. The small percentage of chlorine is not enough to keep the bacteria away.
I was a 10 year student of Joe Allard,; he advocated soaking the reed in water before you play them, then saliva after that. The reason is that the cane has been cultivated through irrigation or natural rain both being the sources of water. As the cane is dried before being formed into a reed, the phloem and zylem tubes contract from lack of water, but they are still present. So when you first are going to use the reed it will absorb more moisture than at any other time during its life span and these tubes will expand again. If you are worried about the Ph or chemicals in the water, remember that these factors were not controlled during the growing process. In fact to minimize the problem you can use distilled water for the first soaking. I have followed this procedure for over 50 years of playing and have had no problems with either useful life of the reed or reed response other than not every reed in a box is a winner! As you mentioned this is controversial, and what ever works for you is great.
Thanks so much for this great comment! 10 years with Joe Allard and 50 years on the sax, power to you!! Thanks for sharing the bit on reeds being able to soak the most water up on their initial soak, as well as the phloem and zylem tubes expanding to their natural state upon the initial soak. Great stuff!
I have my degree in Biology, and my passion in music; I live for this kind of information. Thank you for propagating conversation. 🙏
Been playing professional for years and you have hit the nail on the head great advise
tuppo1201 wow, thanks so much!
1. Great thumbnail!!!! 😂
2. I never soak my reeds in water. Never really felt it made that much of a difference.
3. Saliva for the win
My man! Indeed, Royce!
You can't avoid your reeds coming in contact with saliva anyway, so it's really silly to worry about the 2 minutes contact with saliva before you play and the play for an hour or so where they'll be in constant contact with your saliva. On the other hand probably the water doesn't do much harm either if you play after watering.
Excellent video! I love that you’ve taken this to a scientific level, to convey why water is less practical than saliva. Thank You for all the detailed informations! 😊
Zeekiel Gaming thanks so much for the comment!
The band director Mr. Poole at my school was telling me today that you should soak it for about 30 seconds and he also said that saliva is more bad because of its enzymes that break down food but if it's in water then that's what causes mold and and all that!!!!!!🎷🎷🎷👍👍👍
@Kevin Bene Thanks for the informative video mate. I currently soak my reeds in water and do have a challenge with reed warping, so will try your saliva method to see if that helps. Which reed case do you use to prevent warping after practice please ? Looks like you've rigged up something clever yourself in the video ? Many thanks for your reply, Joe :)
Thanks for the comment, glad the video helped! I am going to do a video on how I store my reeds soon. But the gist is that I use a humidity pack made by Boveda, I use 75%. And then I put the reeds and humidity pack in a container that is very closed yet not airtight. A photo box is what I use... Will explain more in depth in video soon!
@@KevinBene Many thanks mate. Best wishes from London, Joe :)
How long should we soak them? The first time, and then the following times.
Great question! Personally I soak reeds extremely briefly, no more than a minute in my mouth. But I try and make sure not to play on brand new reeds for too long, no more than 10 minutes. Then let them rest until they dry completely and do the same thing for a few days, 3-5 days depending on how the Reed breaks in.
Great vid! Even better information! Thanks!
If you made an x-ray slow motion video of a reed when it is vibrating, how will the tubes inside of it be? Will the moisturizing of it before playing seal the openings so it will be dry inside, or will the moisturized ends of it just make it easier for the salvia to go through the tubes and soak them? What is it that makes them flexible?
Well at the beginning reeds will just keep taking on moisture all the way through by just simply playing on them long enough. I don't like playing on water logged reeds so I break them in, play them only a little bit in the beginning to make sure the saliva does not soak completely through. Doing this conditions the reed. Reeds are flexible simply because they are made from cane, a very very flexible yet rigid plant. It's a type of grass with lignin, as I say in the video.
So to clean my Reed's and to even bring them back to life once a week I soak my Reed's in a mixture of half Listerine and half hydrogen peroxide any opinions on that?
The original Listerine that doesn't have any sugar in it
Hey Rylan.. so the thing with hydrogen peroxide and Listerine is that they are quite acidic. Listerine has a ph of 4 and depending on the strength of Hydrogen Peroxide, I'm quite sure it can be even more acidic. Now if you are trying to revive a reed from mold, this can sometimes work (I have never had any luck though). A brief soaking in these solutions probably would be fine, but if you leave reeds in these solutions I find that they loose their spring and become quite buzzy and dead sounding. Now I do know a few reed players that leave their reeds soaked in Listerine all the time and it works for them, never hydrogen peroxide though. One of my past teachers and phenomenal jazz saxophonist, Steve Wilson, would keep his reeds soaked all the time in a solution of Listerine and water to cut the acidity of the Listerine down. This keep reeds from warping as well as bacteria free. I have experiment with that, but you get water logged reeds and to me they sound dead.. works for some but not for me. So if Listerine is used I would recommend diluting it. Long explanation here, hopefully it helps!!
as a bassoon player, i had a slight heart attack when i read the title. as a tenor sax player, it was so much more understandable lol
I have double reed friends who say the same thing!! Yes you need the water for double reeds as I have heard. I am not a double reed player!
Good stuff lota knowledge all around, glad i stopd by 🎶👍🏻👏🏻 🎷😘
Im looking up reeds for wicker chair remake but this was great 👏🏼❤️
Isn't it funny that it took me here 2u Kevin(3yrs later) while searching info on soaking wicker chair "reeds" but just b4 looking up reeds i was online reading abt Tim Cappello, Tina Turner's sax player, watched her bio & been to her concert yrs back me, me & my hubby r fans of Cappello, so let me add you are wonderful player Kevin best of luck in life 🍀 ...isn't life funny 😍
@@marg233 well that is funny! Thanks so much for the comments and support!!
Love the still frame for this video 😁
Ha thanks Joyce! Yea, it seems to be a big hit lol 😂
Actually, most tap water has a LOT more calcium that saliva, causing reeds to get brittle, and saliva doesn't prevent the growth of any nasty things in your reeds. However, I see no reason why you should NOT put the reeds in your mouth to get them wet. After all, when you're playing you also soak the reed with a LOT of saliva. So even if you soak the reeds in tap water, after you're done playing, they'll have just as much saliva as when you soak them in your mouth.
My personal preference is to just put the reed in my mouth. Not only is it the only way I can be sure I don't drop it, it also warms the reed, and as we all know, temperature affects the tone. I think it keeps the tone more consistent if you soak the reed in your mouth.
So I don't agree on your view as to why tap water is bad, but I do agree on how to soak your reeds ;)
Ronald Delvax great comment and points, thanks! I could definitely see tap water, depending on your source, having more calcium then saliva. I am not saying that saliva will completely block all microorganisms to grow, in fact there is no way to resist growth completely. But salvia is better at fighting the bacteria that will cause your reeds to mold then normal tap water. Plus you don’t risk the reed from water logging when you soak the reed in your mouth, so that will help keep the nasties away as well.
Hello. I can say with great joy that this video saved me. I spent 10 years suffering with reeds here, they were bending while I played, and I could never imagine that it was the fact that I was soacking them in the water before playing that was the cause of this problem.
Anyway, after everything was going well, something happened and i need help.
I recently bought a vandorem reed case that keeps it moist. They say to complete with water in the sponge when it turns blue. Could this moisture coming from the sponge also harm, warp my reed? Since it is to be completed with tap water. I noticed that the reeds were different after I started using this case. Is that a curse on me? lol. But I would like someone to please help me in this regard. Thank you very much.
Hmm, all that case is doing is making a more humid environment, usually shouldn't cause too much trouble as long as it is not too humid, which shouldn't be the case with that case. You could simply just not like the sound/feel of a reed that is in a more humid environment. I prefer to use humidity packs, I change from 62% to 75% (sometimes in between) depending on time of year. Sometimes the 75% during summer months makes my read a bit too humid and I do not like the sound of them.
Thanks so much for the kind words though!!
Thanks
Your welcome! Thanks for the comment!
I just got my saxophone thanks for notifying that to me🎷🎷🎷
Do you keep your reeds in a holder which keeps their tips flat? What sax and MP do you use?
Thanks for the comment! I do keep my reeds in a holder, a humidity controlled case actually, will do a video about it soon! Sax is a Yamaha Custom EX and mouthpiece is a Berg Larsen 120/1.
@@KevinBene I play a berg too. 120 is a big tip. What reed and gauge do you use with that tip opening?
@@blueeyedsoulman yes the tip opening is big, I am considering coming down to a 100 or something to make things a little easier, but my 120 has a certain vibe that I like. In this video I am using a 2.5 Light Rigotti Classic Reed. But I also have been using 3 and 3.5 Rigotti Jazz cuts lately.
Don't you also play your reeds so they are gonna be in contact with your saliva anyway for an x amount of time
Hogan Records thanks for the comment! Yes good point, but your saliva will be diluted with water and not be as effective, plus saliva will only hit the tip of the reed, or the part of the reed that is in your mouth mostly. But the main point is that there will just be too much water to saliva ratio to make the saliva effective. This is just my opinion and what I have theorized!!
How long do soak it for
< 1 min
Does tap water not also contain anti-microbial agents, such as chlorine or something?
Jarold you are correct that water does have added chemicals to thwart off microbials. But they are not strong enough when you have a soaked reed I find. Tap water by itself is quite good at keeping bacteria away, but the addition of the organic material from the reed gives bacteria the food that it needs to thrive. The small percentage of chlorine is not enough to keep the bacteria away.
Or LEAD for that matter
Imagine using a cane reed. Made by synthetic reed gang
Just put my reed in water after this
Why, perhaps you ask. I live my life on edge.
@@sameash3153 😂. Do whatever works for you!