the moment you committed to testing every single weapon in the game for the actual DPS i couldn't resist subbing and liking. Looking forward to your work.
I want write exactly the opposite. Big mistake in critical hit formula Not critical hit on your damage... On your hit! Every bullet must be considerate separately.
@@gurhal5855 No, his math is perfectly fine in order to calculate average dps. We're looking for damage per second, not burst damage or damage per bullet, so there is no need to calculate every bullet separately.
@@ryechew Like some of the cash garp with the color system that they are shamelessly pushing in this game. People should criticise such things more frequently so that the game becomes more customers friendly. But I can see over most of the problems, as long as they continue to bring culture back and shit on the woke west
@@ryechew I mean that you have to buy them over and over again, individually on every outfit. It should be a time purchase.If you buy a color then should be available for all outfits to use
On the theme of building tho - Important thing to note that the mods that have %crit, etc, they actually do not ADD that amount of % to your actual value, they multiply your BASE value. So if you have a gun that has 5% crit chance, stacking mods that total to 100% increasd crit rate will actually only buff the gun to have 10% total critrate. This is an old warframe balancing state where it is in most cases, inefficient to stack crit on low base crit weapons, instead adding other sources. For instance if it has high status chance - adding more elemental damage might be more efficient. Im not sure if we have currently a similar system with elemental damage, but we do have a separate multiplier, which is weak point damage, which is applied constantly as long as you hit those weakpoints, and its something to consider if a gun has a very low crit chance. Of course, do take buffs into consideration. Blair has some crit shenanigans going for him, and Gley buffs guplay alot (infinite rocket ammo for that Katyusha gameplay etc)
In addition to the mods that add elemental damage, there's also mods that multiply your elemental damage from the weapon. So you can definitely build around that.
Yeah... That's was it... The only problem i had is PTSD from genshin crit rate. Few weapons supported on crit build although not all weapon, but if i did build the crit rate way above 60% and it didn't proc the crit properly then I'm afraid i have to meet doctor to alleviate some of my ptsd... Dayum i should sue them for faking the percentage rate and nexon did have the history of scamming a proc rate... It is rigged and sucked lmao
Skipping the Critical Chance part because it can vary a lot-you end up with 183.41 damage per second. I think that's a more solid answer than factoring in the randomness of Critical Chance and Damage Multiplier. It's like how we calculate DPS based on regular hits, not headshots. By the way, when I rechecked the weapon stats, I got 185.34 DPS instead of 191.38. This takes into account how often you'd get a critical hit with a 5% chance, which bumps the damage per shot to about 84.84.
I dont think thats how it works. Crit chance is just a random chance to crit.no matter where you hit. What you meant by headshots are probably the weakpoints. You can get 100% weakpoint hits by skill. But not 100% crit hits.
@@Ch0pperized that's why I said in the first, it's without the hypothetical crit chance, and the second is with, the headshot was just an example for how it is calculated in other games, as usually you do not take weak point hits into account, since you can miss a shot. I hope that is clear.
Crit should always be included in DPS since you know the rate % and crit dmg, you know the expected DPS with crit. Say with 100 dps before crit, add 50% crit + 2x crit damage = 150 dps expected. This doesn’t vary a lot over enough shots.
@@TheRealChese I like true numbers more, but in the end my main point stands and is something completely different, this is just opinion based, after all the Number still adds up to something different than shown in the Video, with or without Crit Included.
I love the math bro. I was thinking something was off I noticed the damage was weirdly off but you breaking it down definitely makes my life easier. These are the kinds off information I was looking for.
I agree om almost everything u'v sed and i think it's some great work! The thing with the tamer is that its base crit hit chance is only 10% while its crit damage multiplier is 1.6x. the crit hit rate and the crit damage rate of the mods are very similar so the crit damage scales higher quicker than the value you get from the crit hit rate on the tamer. I have also started leaning more into damage per magazine instead of raw dps with the tamer (excluding the use of firerate penalizing mods except mental focus where you can gain 150% increased ATK towards the end of the mag) weakspot damage can be very hit and miss, if your not efficent with hitting the weakspot it suffers, but if you can hit consistently it starts outpacing crit dmg.
Important note about the physical damage type. I've done the test myself and while matching the weakness on normal enemies resulted in a 10% damage boost, on colossi it was actually 20%. Not sure if they double it or just boost it. I couldn't tell which given I've only seen guns with a 10% bonus.
Bro got to give it to you, literally giving classes out here and I'm watching every min, information is always great, can't believe I'm watching a lecture on Last Descendant, love this crazy world we live in
This is actually what I need, there is little to no info on the game right now considering it’s only been a week but having things like this helps a lot and plus I am super used to seeing spreadsheets to make my choices
Finally, someone who has the balls to the work and look at more than just the pretty big numbers. I think it would be benificial to try to break down what is actually used to compute the shown dps then show what other factors serve to multiply that. Got a sub from me, keep up the good work!
In terms of WF, bullet improvement mod is basically an elemental mod extra dmg. Atribute is status chance. Weak point is a headshot multipliers. You get more dmg from adding a bullet improvment 8% of firearm instead of a mod that says Toxic ATK 20%. The game also includes effective range falloff dmg depending on range
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for! I was using different types of guns and something just felt off and this video explained why that was and more. Thank you for putting in all the hard effort for us. I am for sure subscribing and seeing what you have planned for the future!
Its always nice to see a "real" explaination video thats actually legit and not just another rinse and repeat video that every other video creator on youtube makes.
I saw this comment on another video and im glad i saw it. I cannot confirm if its true but your crit raye bonusus actually just modify your initial crit rate and not your actual solidified crit rate. If you have +30% you do not have 30% crit you have (Guns base crit × 1.3)
Solid videos dude. Just subbed after watching 2 of your other videos. Clear communication, efficient coverage of the information, and you even show your work. Your videos have an "old TH-cam" feel to them. Probably because it's not full of flashy animations, memes, and transitions, and because you're literally just recording exactly what you're talking about and nothing else. Really appreciate the simplistic quality of your videos so far.
i'm glad there's someone that's finally being informative about TFD, and doing some deep diving on stats. I found out about a day or two ago that jayber's non-attribute stack/skill stack wasn't working(as good as it should)and swapped to my second synergy, and noticed the modifier increases. It seems all the 2nd synergies(as they typically only affect 2 of the skills) have more multipliers behind them and always give larger increases than main element increases.
i was checking the same since the damage numbers were diff than expected when tested in that lab thingy. But since I'm like a chimp and have zero idea of maths I used chatgpt and got the same answer. Again had no idea how to explain it to people. You did a crazy good job. Glad to see my chimp brain was not wrong in thinking something was off
I just want to say I’m very grateful to happen to have stumbled upon your videos. I think I speak for everyone when I say that your work here is very much appreciated.
their is very few good guide for this game and few people doing good theorycrafting , thanks for your hardwork and will to share this with the community
Nice comprehensive breakdown. I also did my own (albeit less comprehensive) testing yesterday mainly focusing on Firearm ATK (in turn influencing DPS). These are some of the things I found: - Headshot multipliers and critical hit multipliers have so much variance. a handcannon's headshot multiplier can range from 2.5 - 3.0%; actual damage numbers are higher than what is usually indicated on the weapon (consistent with your findings) - For some reason, units from Legion of Immortality and Legion of Darkness units take reduced damage. When I did the numbers, Firearm ATK is reduced by atleast 70% all the way down to 40%. So a weapon with 5000 Firearm ATK would only deal 2000-3500 per bullet. I tested it on different weapons and it seems that damage reduction and damage multiplication in this game don't have a consistent value. However, I do think the amount of reduction varies per type of unit (higher damage reduction on minibosses compared to normal enemy units) but I've yet to do more testing. In summary, damage numbers are relatively close to the stated values but are usually all over the place and aren't influenced by other stats.
Loving these videos. I used to do this kinda stuff when I had time before wife and kids. Glad to have found someone who has the time to do it so I don't have to 🙇♂🙇♂
Being a person whose body burns at the very presence of math, I am so very grateful your brain is not smooth like mine, and that you are willing to do this maddening work.
Very detailed and thorough, earned a sub man. One thing I do disagree with is putting crit on the tamer. I managed to get gold stats for crit chance and crit damage, loaded it up with crit mods and fought against hard mode executioner. Consistently took me around 8:30 to 9 minutes to kill him with a crit set up. With my gold stat weak point Tamer with weak point mods, took around 6-7 minutes consistently. Both set ups had the respective atk and fire rate mods. Crit just isnt good/noticeable on tamer IMO
Yeah I have to agree, maybe in farming situations the crit would be more valuable but then again who would use such a slow gun for farming. The main purpose for it is hitting those boss weakpoints. And besides the Tamer has low base crit stats, it would need ultra investment to get to a usable amount, meaning having to give up other valuable modules. Tho from reading the comments I think the creator only found out about the Mental Focus mod after making the video :D No big deal, I like the detailed explanations regardless.
You probably already know this but crit rate is multiplicative so if you get +100% crit rate from mods your total crit rate will be 20% on the Tamer. The Mental Focus mod, when maxed, gives Firearm ATK +1% for each shot fired, up to a max of 150.
One of the only videos worth watching when it comes down to working out how damage works in this game. Every other youtuber guide so far has just shown off blatantly wrong information.
I am totally with you man !! I was getting nuts with these dps numbers, i had to start my own calculation tab. And no need to do the math to see that there are inconsistencies in the dps calculation in this game. When you compare weapons of the same type, it’s blatant. That with wording and translation problems The first descendant is giving us homework’s 😂😂
Tamer dps actually benefits a lot more (on colossus) from weak point damage rather than crit rate and crit damage, someone did a video on how there 485k dps high crit rate/dmg tamer did less than there 270k dps weak point tamer , just thought I’d throw that out there. Great video
One little correction on the drop off modifier. I know it's a tad nitpicky, but the 0.6x modifier means that the total damage is reduce to 60% at the drop-off range. Just want to make sure it doesn't confuse some people.
Glad someone noticed that too and made such a good research on the case. You missed one thing: dropdown is an multiplier and not subtractor. So if it says 0,6 after 75m it won't be 1-0,6, it will be 1*0,6. If it was a subtractor, then pistols would be best choice for long range shooting because they have 0,4 dropdown, while mgs, scout rifles and sniper rifles would be worst having around 0.5, 0.6, and 0.7 respectively. But instead it is other way around. Anyway, that shouldn't affect dps calculations so keep up the good work!
I literally am so thankful for the work your about to put yourself through you got my sub with notifications and I’ll be waiting on that beauty of a spreadsheet and try my best to use it to the best of my abilities! 💪🏽 you and people alike make min maxing games so much more reliable. I’m assuming that the actually damage output this video here will help substantially everyone in the community. I’ve been wondering why my thundercage with 380 ish thousand dps didn’t seem like it was the case with the numbers popping up over time. Seriously thank you.
Love this type of content instead of the drama fishing news reporters that plagues the site, like all of the news that you need is on discord, they just tryna hit that 8 minute mark for each video 💀
Great video ! My only problem is putting crit rate on Tamer in place of weakpoint is confusing for some people i believe. 1% more crit rate is weaker than the increase on weakpoint damage by a huge margin. Building crit damage is something to do tho.
EDIT: tested against swamp monster (hard) this time and seeing different numbers now. I don't know anymore Really good video! One thing i noticed in particular about weak point damage is that it's all additive with other weak point sources. This includes the inherit weak point multiplier from the enemies, the base number from the weapon, mods, sub rolls, etc. for example if I shoot an enemy without matching the weak point to it, with a 20% weak point module, and a base 1.5x weak point damage, the actual bonus is the inherit weak point multiplier + base + mods. So in this scenario 0.25 + 1.5 + 0.2 = 1.95. In practical testing against hard mode devourer this is how the numbers seem to work. I haven't had time to test other bosses. If you match the weak point type, it seems that the inherit multiplier goes to 0.75 instead (which is still additive). One last thing, bullet improvement and the elemental substat damage doesn't seem to get a weak point multiplier applied to it at all. This means it should be considered additive to the already existing weak point bonus
Thanks bro. Very informative. I've been watching those other videos showing you what mods to use to max out DPS but nobody has broken it down like this. I gave you a like and a sub
I like this video and the math. But I want you to look at Moxsy's video on the tamer. He goes weak point damage instead of crit. And it kills bosses faster that way.
The reason for the difference is that there is a slight delay between when you stop shooting and they are figuring people will stop shooting while reloading and then press fire once the animation is complete which adds around a half second buffer to 8.8 seconds which lines up pretty good. BUT actual dps is higher than even you figure, since if you hold down the fire button you actually start shooting again around 75% of the reload time. Even shorter if you roll cancel the animation. Hope that helps :)
It accurate enough . Trying to account for dps per enemy type . Ammo type ( crush , pierce , and whatever the other one is ) resistances etc . They did a good job to show you where your dps stands .
Big ups to you brother! This was an impressive breakdown, i can share this with my friends and help them get better at the game so we can go on missions together :)
Warning if you didn't know, the modifiers that modules give are multiplicative with their % changes. For example, a 20% crit rate increase on a base 10% crit rate results in a 12% crit rate. I didn't know this till I pressed tab and saw the weapon stats update when making changes.
This also might be just in the tooltip which results in the game's DPS calcs being so wrong. Either way, I look forward to seeing what the weapon tests look like!
As an engineer, i appreciated coming across this by chance. Earned the like because its good content. Earned my sub because there wasnt a random add bult into the video.
I started out with "action and reaction" but just couldn't deal with the recoil it gave. I couldn't stay on target for longer than 2 secs. Great class on damage calculations.
I noticed this myself when messing with some of the mods. Things that should, in theory, add to your DPS often instead removed DPS from the in-game calculations. Strange little thing. Warframe never gave us “DPS” values, we had to figure that out on our own, and I think we were better players for it.
You can probably take 2-3 weapons with drastically different firerates, find the difference % between their real DPS and the displayed DPS, then graph it. To confirm results, take 2-4 more weapons and see if they line up with the graph. If so, you can now find the difference% which fire rate has on real dps versus dispalyed dps, allowing us to automatically slap on a general range, or find the exact amount with a bit of math, for all new weapons/untested weapons and you wouldn't have to go test each and every individual weapon yourself. If they don't line up, then, oh well, spaghetti code is spaghetti code. You'll need to find some buddies and go test all the weapon, including all newly-released ones as well, so that you can accomplish your goal.
I believe i have seen the dps number change from change in recoil and accuracy so it seems they are adding in something there for missed shots which could be why the actual dps is higher than the marked dps
I think you would love warframe math, basically the same as this in most ways. The kengineer does some insane waframe math on YT and twitch. Thanks for doing this so the rest of us don't have to, earned a sub from me!
Great video, thanks! I knew the numbers were likely off, but like you said at the beginning: I didn't want to do the math, haha. Good to know that snipers are off, I felt like their DPS was way higher than listed, even though the DPS number was already the highest of the heavies (other than shotguns). Something you didn't mention, and I think it's worth mentioning even though it's only tangentially related to your overall subject: Crit Hit Rate and crit hit damage are MULTIPLICATIVE with the base stats on the gun. Tamer has *very* low base crit rate (10%) and crit damage (120%), and thus crit isn't even worth putting on the gun to begin with. If you put 200% crit rate on the gun, which afaik isn't even remotely possible, that would be 30% crit rate. Some guns have up to 50% crit rate as I recall (snipers and handguns in particular typically have high crit rate), THESE guns are the ones you stack crit on - in the same general 1:1 ratio you mention in the video. Different Dream (purple sniper), for instance, has 55% base crit rate, and 180% Crit Damage multiplier. This mechanic is a holdover that was directly copied from Warframe into this game.
This is epic asf. As someone who does this same kind of in depth math on Warframe, I’m so happy someone’s doing it here. Hope you at least have fun doing this work, since it’s grueling.
Present update all you need is a tamer and the appropriate modules for magnifying dps Then you need element types based on the enemy you're tackling Until there's an update this actually won't change because the tamer can roll with 500k on its dps field which is the current highest possible roll
the moment you committed to testing every single weapon in the game for the actual DPS i couldn't resist subbing and liking. Looking forward to your work.
At least one of us is looking forwarward to it. haha
Nah, I'm in as well
@@ryechew I hope your drinking a lot of coffee 💀
@@Yashieyama its rough. my head hurts. I have to redo my skill power vid.
Literally same man
This is what happens when a math teacher plays game
Thats funny. I m just a humble nerd
sad part is that this is basic 4th grade math , but the devs did not manage to do even this properly
@MrRafagigapr oof. Well there may be different reasons. True though
I want write exactly the opposite.
Big mistake in critical hit formula
Not critical hit on your damage... On your hit! Every bullet must be considerate separately.
@@gurhal5855 No, his math is perfectly fine in order to calculate average dps. We're looking for damage per second, not burst damage or damage per bullet, so there is no need to calculate every bullet separately.
The moment he started to make calculations on his blackboard I knew he is feeling this game on a different lvl
I do like this game. Although certain things are. becoming issues.
@@ryechew Like some of the cash garp with the color system that they are shamelessly pushing in this game. People should criticise such things more frequently so that the game becomes more customers friendly. But I can see over most of the problems, as long as they continue to bring culture back and shit on the woke west
@@ryechew Yeah the color system for example
@@arturmagomedov02 color system
@@ryechew I mean that you have to buy them over and over again, individually on every outfit. It should be a time purchase.If you buy a color then should be available for all outfits to use
You know this guy means business when he pulls out the black board and a marker. Well explained, I'll have to keep this in mind!
On the theme of building tho - Important thing to note that the mods that have %crit, etc, they actually do not ADD that amount of % to your actual value, they multiply your BASE value. So if you have a gun that has 5% crit chance, stacking mods that total to 100% increasd crit rate will actually only buff the gun to have 10% total critrate.
This is an old warframe balancing state where it is in most cases, inefficient to stack crit on low base crit weapons, instead adding other sources. For instance if it has high status chance - adding more elemental damage might be more efficient.
Im not sure if we have currently a similar system with elemental damage, but we do have a separate multiplier, which is weak point damage, which is applied constantly as long as you hit those weakpoints, and its something to consider if a gun has a very low crit chance.
Of course, do take buffs into consideration. Blair has some crit shenanigans going for him, and Gley buffs guplay alot (infinite rocket ammo for that Katyusha gameplay etc)
In addition to the mods that add elemental damage, there's also mods that multiply your elemental damage from the weapon. So you can definitely build around that.
I wish the game would tell you this.
@@KalijahAnderson Press tab when in menu where you add weapon modules, it’ll switch to the actual weapon stats with the actual effects applied.
@@TheRealChese Thank you. I'll check that out.
Yeah... That's was it... The only problem i had is PTSD from genshin crit rate. Few weapons supported on crit build although not all weapon, but if i did build the crit rate way above 60% and it didn't proc the crit properly then I'm afraid i have to meet doctor to alleviate some of my ptsd... Dayum i should sue them for faking the percentage rate and nexon did have the history of scamming a proc rate... It is rigged and sucked lmao
i GOTTA FIX THE CAMERA ANGLE... MY JOWELS
WEAKPOINT MODIFIER IS GOOD I JUST DONT RUN IT.
Thumbs down, no link to the thumbnail source image.
@@laiden25 lol its just gleys outfit haha
Would be interesting to know what is worth running crit on vs weak point.
I mean beam rifles confused the heck out of me 😂.
@@CloppingIsMyThing high base crit = build crit%/crit dmg%
not high base crit = build weak point
Relax, the math is good. Nobody is looking at you for more than that here.
This guy gonna be the true game data for first descendant and i love it lol
Just stumbled across him and thought "I found the guy"
Skipping the Critical Chance part because it can vary a lot-you end up with 183.41 damage per second. I think that's a more solid answer than factoring in the randomness of Critical Chance and Damage Multiplier. It's like how we calculate DPS based on regular hits, not headshots.
By the way, when I rechecked the weapon stats, I got 185.34 DPS instead of 191.38. This takes into account how often you'd get a critical hit with a 5% chance, which bumps the damage per shot to about 84.84.
I dont think thats how it works. Crit chance is just a random chance to crit.no matter where you hit. What you meant by headshots are probably the weakpoints.
You can get 100% weakpoint hits by skill. But not 100% crit hits.
@@Ch0pperized that's why I said in the first, it's without the hypothetical crit chance, and the second is with, the headshot was just an example for how it is calculated in other games, as usually you do not take weak point hits into account, since you can miss a shot.
I hope that is clear.
@@vKross but you take crit chance into account for this game
Crit should always be included in DPS since you know the rate % and crit dmg, you know the expected DPS with crit. Say with 100 dps before crit, add 50% crit + 2x crit damage = 150 dps expected. This doesn’t vary a lot over enough shots.
@@TheRealChese I like true numbers more, but in the end my main point stands and is something completely different, this is just opinion based, after all the Number still adds up to something different than shown in the Video, with or without Crit Included.
I love the math bro. I was thinking something was off I noticed the damage was weirdly off but you breaking it down definitely makes my life easier. These are the kinds off information I was looking for.
cant wait for the spreadsheet and the tier list!
Its gonna be so fuunnnn
Incredible video! My dumb brain understood everything because of how good your explanation was!
I agree om almost everything u'v sed and i think it's some great work! The thing with the tamer is that its base crit hit chance is only 10% while its crit damage multiplier is 1.6x. the crit hit rate and the crit damage rate of the mods are very similar so the crit damage scales higher quicker than the value you get from the crit hit rate on the tamer.
I have also started leaning more into damage per magazine instead of raw dps with the tamer (excluding the use of firerate penalizing mods except mental focus where you can gain 150% increased ATK towards the end of the mag) weakspot damage can be very hit and miss, if your not efficent with hitting the weakspot it suffers, but if you can hit consistently it starts outpacing crit dmg.
Important note about the physical damage type. I've done the test myself and while matching the weakness on normal enemies resulted in a 10% damage boost, on colossi it was actually 20%. Not sure if they double it or just boost it. I couldn't tell which given I've only seen guns with a 10% bonus.
Bro got to give it to you, literally giving classes out here and I'm watching every min, information is always great, can't believe I'm watching a lecture on Last Descendant, love this crazy world we live in
Great job for the community. These is what’s needed. WE NEED MORE. Earned a sub
You are a GODSEND!! Thank you for making this and committing to testing all of the weapons
Get Mental quickness on the Tamer ASAP, 50-100% firearm attack increase (1% dmg increase per shot for 2 seconds when maxed)
OH MY GOD. I should get this mod. (mental focus)
Tamer is really badass with the right modules.
@@ryechew Haigos mission, 4% NM 5% drop rate HM, 5-8 minute runs with bunny. Took me 30ish runs with drop rate increase equipment making it around 8%.
@@ryechew The damage increase with the Tamer is truly insane with this mod
I got lucky and got it first run. It put my damge through the roof.
This is actually what I need, there is little to no info on the game right now considering it’s only been a week but having things like this helps a lot and plus I am super used to seeing spreadsheets to make my choices
Finally, someone who has the balls to the work and look at more than just the pretty big numbers. I think it would be benificial to try to break down what is actually used to compute the shown dps then show what other factors serve to multiply that. Got a sub from me, keep up the good work!
lol the balls? like other people are too cowardly? like nexon games is gonna visit him in the middle of the night lmfao
Thanks for all the information on the game. Im slowly figuring things out in the game. Your videos are helpful.
Thanks this games math aint mathing sometimes
10:14 @@ryechew
In terms of WF, bullet improvement mod is basically an elemental mod extra dmg. Atribute is status chance. Weak point is a headshot multipliers. You get more dmg from adding a bullet improvment 8% of firearm instead of a mod that says Toxic ATK 20%. The game also includes effective range falloff dmg depending on range
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for! I was using different types of guns and something just felt off and this video explained why that was and more. Thank you for putting in all the hard effort for us. I am for sure subscribing and seeing what you have planned for the future!
Thank you very much for this detailed breakdown on weapons damage!
Its always nice to see a "real" explaination video thats actually legit and not just another rinse and repeat video that every other video creator on youtube makes.
I saw this comment on another video and im glad i saw it. I cannot confirm if its true but your crit raye bonusus actually just modify your initial crit rate and not your actual solidified crit rate. If you have +30% you do not have 30% crit you have (Guns base crit × 1.3)
From what is shown in the gun detail screen this is true, he have 13.9% crit rate from mods but only have 11.39% overall crit rate
Well, that sucks 😅. No reason to use crit rate mods occupying space if they only take tour crit rate from 10% to like 20%, very low chance still.
Solid videos dude. Just subbed after watching 2 of your other videos. Clear communication, efficient coverage of the information, and you even show your work.
Your videos have an "old TH-cam" feel to them. Probably because it's not full of flashy animations, memes, and transitions, and because you're literally just recording exactly what you're talking about and nothing else. Really appreciate the simplistic quality of your videos so far.
i'm glad there's someone that's finally being informative about TFD, and doing some deep diving on stats. I found out about a day or two ago that jayber's non-attribute stack/skill stack wasn't working(as good as it should)and swapped to my second synergy, and noticed the modifier increases. It seems all the 2nd synergies(as they typically only affect 2 of the skills) have more multipliers behind them and always give larger increases than main element increases.
His explanation so clearly!! Worth every single second I watch ( no skip )
Broke it down like a shotgun for everyone to understand.My hat is off to you Sir...
Subbed
You’re a godsend lmao I’d never take the time to do this. The effort deserves a sub🤙🏻
This is the art of a theorycrafter, used to be one in my wow days when you almost had to do your own cause you could have a diverse build. RiP.
"sniper riffle, launcher, doesn't need fire rate buff. "
Gley: "Yes"
i was checking the same since the damage numbers were diff than expected when tested in that lab thingy. But since I'm like a chimp and have zero idea of maths I used chatgpt and got the same answer. Again had no idea how to explain it to people. You did a crazy good job. Glad to see my chimp brain was not wrong in thinking something was off
Thank you for doing all this testing and math its really appreciated.
I just want to say I’m very grateful to happen to have stumbled upon your videos. I think I speak for everyone when I say that your work here is very much appreciated.
Yessss 🎉 a " numbers guy " thank you for all your hard work ❤
Oh man, I remember doing this for EDF to calculate which weapons did the most damage. It's exciting to see someone else do the math for once 😊
their is very few good guide for this game and few people doing good theorycrafting , thanks for your hardwork and will to share this with the community
Nice comprehensive breakdown. I also did my own (albeit less comprehensive) testing yesterday mainly focusing on Firearm ATK (in turn influencing DPS).
These are some of the things I found:
- Headshot multipliers and critical hit multipliers have so much variance. a handcannon's headshot multiplier can range from 2.5 - 3.0%; actual damage numbers are higher than what is usually indicated on the weapon (consistent with your findings)
- For some reason, units from Legion of Immortality and Legion of Darkness units take reduced damage. When I did the numbers, Firearm ATK is reduced by atleast 70% all the way down to 40%. So a weapon with 5000 Firearm ATK would only deal 2000-3500 per bullet. I tested it on different weapons and it seems that damage reduction and damage multiplication in this game don't have a consistent value. However, I do think the amount of reduction varies per type of unit (higher damage reduction on minibosses compared to normal enemy units) but I've yet to do more testing.
In summary, damage numbers are relatively close to the stated values but are usually all over the place and aren't influenced by other stats.
Loving these videos. I used to do this kinda stuff when I had time before wife and kids. Glad to have found someone who has the time to do it so I don't have to 🙇♂🙇♂
Being a person whose body burns at the very presence of math, I am so very grateful your brain is not smooth like mine, and that you are willing to do this maddening work.
Always check your work guys. That 189 is supposed to be 183. Formula is what its supposed to be though. However everyone is wrong still working on it
better late then never
have you actually tried building weak point dmg for the tamer tho, I'm really curious if crit is the way. And then do a field test to compare?
I don't see you use reload time in the DPS their formula is using it.
I learned more math in this video than I did in math class. Thank you sir.
Very detailed and thorough, earned a sub man. One thing I do disagree with is putting crit on the tamer. I managed to get gold stats for crit chance and crit damage, loaded it up with crit mods and fought against hard mode executioner. Consistently took me around 8:30 to 9 minutes to kill him with a crit set up. With my gold stat weak point Tamer with weak point mods, took around 6-7 minutes consistently. Both set ups had the respective atk and fire rate mods. Crit just isnt good/noticeable on tamer IMO
Yeah I have to agree, maybe in farming situations the crit would be more valuable but then again who would use such a slow gun for farming. The main purpose for it is hitting those boss weakpoints.
And besides the Tamer has low base crit stats, it would need ultra investment to get to a usable amount, meaning having to give up other valuable modules.
Tho from reading the comments I think the creator only found out about the Mental Focus mod after making the video :D No big deal, I like the detailed explanations regardless.
I respect the time you put in thank you very much for this
You probably already know this but crit rate is multiplicative so if you get +100% crit rate from mods your total crit rate will be 20% on the Tamer.
The Mental Focus mod, when maxed, gives Firearm ATK +1% for each shot fired, up to a max of 150.
One of the only videos worth watching when it comes down to working out how damage works in this game. Every other youtuber guide so far has just shown off blatantly wrong information.
I am totally with you man !! I was getting nuts with these dps numbers, i had to start my own calculation tab.
And no need to do the math to see that there are inconsistencies in the dps calculation in this game. When you compare weapons of the same type, it’s blatant.
That with wording and translation problems The first descendant is giving us homework’s 😂😂
My discord is nerding out over all the math lol.
Tamer dps actually benefits a lot more (on colossus) from weak point damage rather than crit rate and crit damage, someone did a video on how there 485k dps high crit rate/dmg tamer did less than there 270k dps weak point tamer , just thought I’d throw that out there. Great video
Who else just got lost and accepted the fact that you have to rewatch a few times
One little correction on the drop off modifier. I know it's a tad nitpicky, but the 0.6x modifier means that the total damage is reduce to 60% at the drop-off range. Just want to make sure it doesn't confuse some people.
Thank you for the quality vidéo, I'm not really a math nerd but I like optimization so this is super helpful !
Glad someone noticed that too and made such a good research on the case. You missed one thing: dropdown is an multiplier and not subtractor. So if it says 0,6 after 75m it won't be 1-0,6, it will be 1*0,6. If it was a subtractor, then pistols would be best choice for long range shooting because they have 0,4 dropdown, while mgs, scout rifles and sniper rifles would be worst having around 0.5, 0.6, and 0.7 respectively. But instead it is other way around.
Anyway, that shouldn't affect dps calculations so keep up the good work!
I literally am so thankful for the work your about to put yourself through you got my sub with notifications and I’ll be waiting on that beauty of a spreadsheet and try my best to use it to the best of my abilities! 💪🏽 you and people alike make min maxing games so much more reliable. I’m assuming that the actually damage output this video here will help substantially everyone in the community. I’ve been wondering why my thundercage with 380 ish thousand dps didn’t seem like it was the case with the numbers popping up over time. Seriously thank you.
Absolutely loved this vid. Subscribed
Love this type of content instead of the drama fishing news reporters that plagues the site, like all of the news that you need is on discord, they just tryna hit that 8 minute mark for each video 💀
Great video ! My only problem is putting crit rate on Tamer in place of weakpoint is confusing for some people i believe.
1% more crit rate is weaker than the increase on weakpoint damage by a huge margin. Building crit damage is something to do tho.
EDIT: tested against swamp monster (hard) this time and seeing different numbers now. I don't know anymore
Really good video! One thing i noticed in particular about weak point damage is that it's all additive with other weak point sources. This includes the inherit weak point multiplier from the enemies, the base number from the weapon, mods, sub rolls, etc. for example if I shoot an enemy without matching the weak point to it, with a 20% weak point module, and a base 1.5x weak point damage, the actual bonus is the inherit weak point multiplier + base + mods. So in this scenario 0.25 + 1.5 + 0.2 = 1.95. In practical testing against hard mode devourer this is how the numbers seem to work. I haven't had time to test other bosses. If you match the weak point type, it seems that the inherit multiplier goes to 0.75 instead (which is still additive). One last thing, bullet improvement and the elemental substat damage doesn't seem to get a weak point multiplier applied to it at all. This means it should be considered additive to the already existing weak point bonus
Great video. Very informative. I’m not your audience, but I think it’s great to have someone like you in the community. GL
Thanks bro. Very informative. I've been watching those other videos showing you what mods to use to max out DPS but nobody has broken it down like this. I gave you a like and a sub
I like this video and the math. But I want you to look at Moxsy's video on the tamer. He goes weak point damage instead of crit. And it kills bosses faster that way.
There’s a tab when customizing mods on consoles it’s the select button. That dropdown should show your true damage
The reason for the difference is that there is a slight delay between when you stop shooting and they are figuring people will stop shooting while reloading and then press fire once the animation is complete which adds around a half second buffer to 8.8 seconds which lines up pretty good.
BUT actual dps is higher than even you figure, since if you hold down the fire button you actually start shooting again around 75% of the reload time. Even shorter if you roll cancel the animation. Hope that helps :)
It accurate enough .
Trying to account for dps per enemy type . Ammo type ( crush , pierce , and whatever the other one is ) resistances etc .
They did a good job to show you where your dps stands .
This is what I looking for, an actual formula. Thanks man !
Big ups to you brother! This was an impressive breakdown, i can share this with my friends and help them get better at the game so we can go on missions together :)
I know you get this a lot but just doing the math made me sub. I'm terrible at math but understand all of this
Warning if you didn't know, the modifiers that modules give are multiplicative with their % changes. For example, a 20% crit rate increase on a base 10% crit rate results in a 12% crit rate. I didn't know this till I pressed tab and saw the weapon stats update when making changes.
This also might be just in the tooltip which results in the game's DPS calcs being so wrong. Either way, I look forward to seeing what the weapon tests look like!
As an engineer, i appreciated coming across this by chance.
Earned the like because its good content.
Earned my sub because there wasnt a random add bult into the video.
As soon as this dude whipped out the white board I subbed, man is dedicated to giving us the correct numbers
yet when you re-calculate his numbers, it arrives at 185.34 instead of 191.38 so a difference of 6.04 Damage.
I started out with "action and reaction" but just couldn't deal with the recoil it gave. I couldn't stay on target for longer than 2 secs. Great class on damage calculations.
You're doing amazing work! Thank you so much for everything. Keep it up brother
I regret skipping math classes in high school now lol. Jokes aside. Great videos! Keep up the great work!
I would have been doing calculus in middle school if this was how math was taught.
I was doing this in school with rpgs lol.
@@ryechewthis is a far cry from nes dragon warrior math 😂
@@alphanumeric1103 SURE lol. Have you seen diablos math... woof
@@ryechewI don’t they even know how it works. Druids would be better if they did
You deserve the like and sub. Math was my strong suit i highschool and through college courses. Youve got alit of work ahead of you. I wish you luck.
Just got into this game and I've been obsessed with maximizing my damage output this is a godsend lol definitely subscribing
You my friend just got a new sub. This is the vid everyone in the community needed for sure!
The brow movement is equivalent to someone who does something spectacular while keeping their cigarette on their lips.
I can already tell you're a man of culture from the first frame of the video
I totaly dont understand everything, but damn I cant stop watching all the explanation!
Im starting to loveee this guy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 mister you are amazing.. I hope Nexon will see this 😀😀😀😀😀
I noticed this myself when messing with some of the mods. Things that should, in theory, add to your DPS often instead removed DPS from the in-game calculations. Strange little thing. Warframe never gave us “DPS” values, we had to figure that out on our own, and I think we were better players for it.
This is great old quality YT video. Awesome job man! Subscribed!
He might be on to another law suit for NEXON Games or they could just hire this man to do all the numbers
Mathing a game for meta is a pro gamer move, nice work I look forward to seeing waht you cone up with.
You can probably take 2-3 weapons with drastically different firerates, find the difference % between their real DPS and the displayed DPS, then graph it. To confirm results, take 2-4 more weapons and see if they line up with the graph. If so, you can now find the difference% which fire rate has on real dps versus dispalyed dps, allowing us to automatically slap on a general range, or find the exact amount with a bit of math, for all new weapons/untested weapons and you wouldn't have to go test each and every individual weapon yourself. If they don't line up, then, oh well, spaghetti code is spaghetti code. You'll need to find some buddies and go test all the weapon, including all newly-released ones as well, so that you can accomplish your goal.
I believe i have seen the dps number change from change in recoil and accuracy so it seems they are adding in something there for missed shots which could be why the actual dps is higher than the marked dps
Thank you dad, but seriously I've been testing and seeing these inconsistencies myself, ah I'm glad you touched on the elemental mods
I think you would love warframe math, basically the same as this in most ways. The kengineer does some insane waframe math on YT and twitch. Thanks for doing this so the rest of us don't have to, earned a sub from me!
I feel like a total math chad for modding my thunder cage almost exactly to this math wizard
Great video, thanks! I knew the numbers were likely off, but like you said at the beginning: I didn't want to do the math, haha. Good to know that snipers are off, I felt like their DPS was way higher than listed, even though the DPS number was already the highest of the heavies (other than shotguns).
Something you didn't mention, and I think it's worth mentioning even though it's only tangentially related to your overall subject: Crit Hit Rate and crit hit damage are MULTIPLICATIVE with the base stats on the gun. Tamer has *very* low base crit rate (10%) and crit damage (120%), and thus crit isn't even worth putting on the gun to begin with. If you put 200% crit rate on the gun, which afaik isn't even remotely possible, that would be 30% crit rate. Some guns have up to 50% crit rate as I recall (snipers and handguns in particular typically have high crit rate), THESE guns are the ones you stack crit on - in the same general 1:1 ratio you mention in the video. Different Dream (purple sniper), for instance, has 55% base crit rate, and 180% Crit Damage multiplier.
This mechanic is a holdover that was directly copied from Warframe into this game.
dude you sound like me explaining warframe math what the hell. earned a sub
This is epic asf. As someone who does this same kind of in depth math on Warframe, I’m so happy someone’s doing it here. Hope you at least have fun doing this work, since it’s grueling.
WOW, the chalkboard and all? This is the true Descendant instructor lol. I'm subbing for more of this. I am an endgame and min/max lover.
Your work is much appreciated, thank you
Ty for breaking this down. I never go for just dps only i felt that it now a true dmg dealer. I only go by firearms dmg
Almost skipping the video until the blackboard appeared 😂 this is serious and I like it 👌
OMG, you used behoove! That's my most favorite least favorite word! This made my day. (At about 8:30 into video)
Didn't expected to have dps calculation explained to me by Tobey Maguire, and I can't unsee it now.
You must be blind lol
Present update all you need is a tamer and the appropriate modules for magnifying dps
Then you need element types based on the enemy you're tackling
Until there's an update this actually won't change because the tamer can roll with 500k on its dps field which is the current highest possible roll