Its so cool to me how perceptive you are when riding your board, for me it takes a few runs and a few minutes to really see how a truck setup feels. Its so impressive how with each run, and changing something as small as the insert bushing, your able to really differentiate the feeling it gives. Great stuff as always Owen, so excited to see ya and rip with ya this summer.
Insert bushings are significant! I don’t think I have any superpowers; you could provide just as good insight and likely bring a perspective I hadn’t considered.
@@owencampbell777 I’ve never tried em but I def have heard they provide a good bit of difference between each different one. Idk sir ive tried to sit down and make a review like yours but you’re really able to put in to words and describe certain things I thing I struggle with, don’t discredit yourself, you seriously are great at making these videos and breaking them down in such details I don’t even think of.
Fantastic video! I tried most of the venom inserts with my dt dh-cybins and really enjoyed them in 87a riding grippy race wheels 74/81 95/95 and I weigh 145lbs. Keep these gear reviews coming!
Great info. Currently really vibing with 95/95 HPF inserts in my Slalom Rogues. Stock bushing config. I found it helped big time when it came to rougher roads, it stopped my front truck from doing that chunder shuffle.
Finishing this vid up at 3:30am. I didn’t expect someone to be as nerdy as I am about bushings. Also I just acquired two sets of cRogues to upgrade some other decks(like I’m good,lol, I’m still learning how to get speed checks and what not still but you helped me to decide on what duros to buy without worry. Thanks!
I've found that in rogues, going softer with the insert has given the trucks some fantastic personality. I run an 87 in back and 90 in front from venom. It be a good time
@@owencampbell777 I've got 155mm precision rogues 50f 32r, running front 85/87 with 90 insert, rear 90/93 with 87 insert. It's on a landyachtz obsidian, if that adds any influence. I've decided that the higher shore inserts felt too overbearing in relation to the bushings themselves, as it felt like the board side bushing wasn't doing what it needed to as the insert rode up the kingpin. With the more forgiving inserts I feel like you get more out of changes in your bushings. I'm not that hardcore of a rider though, so I'm curious what lower shore inserts would feel like to you
Harder insert front is a little unusual, I won’t lie. I haven’t heard of someone setting up their board that way. Definitely consider flipping that around; once you get used to it, I think you’ll come to enjoy the agility of the front truck and a reliable back end. I do think that the wider trucks may contribute to the way the insert bushing is loaded in a way that makes soft inserts perform more reliably than in narrower, more temperamental trucks.
Per angle of lean, a higher degree truck will articulate more than a lower degree truck. I know you get this concept, so picture the amount that a 32 degree truck will articulate. It will require significantly less deformation in the insert bushing than your front truck will for the same angle. This leads me to believe that changing the rear bushing setup will have much less of an impact on overall performance than changing the front. My opinion is to use a harder bushing in the rear to reduce the slop where you need stability the most. You can keep the front insert soft because the front bushings benefit from less restriction so they can deform more drastically.
I’ve tried them with zealous built-ins, cuei spacers, and machined .400” spacers. Yes, some are a better fit than others, but it’s evident that these cores are the main culprit
@@owencampbell777 Ah ok. Mine fit pretty great with the Bear spaceballs or SMB bears and some other spacers I have. But I do agree with you. I've found different cores work better with some bearings and spacer combos
It’s less of an issue of the size of the spacer and more of an issue with the alignment of the core. I think the bearing seats are misaligned slightly. It’s likely that I got one of the worse sets.
Running a weird setup. 165mm arsenal cast 44s. Venom barrels red roadside green boardside front then riptide plugs with grey boardside red roadside in back truck... basically lively front and firm back. So far so good...
I just bought a fresh set of HPF inserts last week and they slid into my Cybins much easier than last time. Their tolerances probably vary enough that only some people will need to mod them.
Pretty sure the Cheetah core is the same Hawgs core they use in Ez Hawgs which are great but man the core sucks so bad. The only bearings that fit ok in it are space balls.
I agree with most things you say, but i think you might need some other, different style, spots. In my opinion the "biggest" the insert the better it is, because urethane gets more rebound if put under pressure, and that there is not enough matter in an insert bushing to play a role as significant as bushings... And the main role of an insert is to restraint play betweeen the hanger and the kingpin. My experience is that : for pure downhill glove down as fast as you can, you use the softest insert you have in front, harder in the back, and you adjust bushings after that for freeriding you use whatever you feel confortable with, slightly harder insert in front, and something slightly harder than the front in the back Try soft ones "downhill style" on spots you need lean to stay on the board, i'm sure you'll have a great time
I’m sure there are plenty of situations in which I could enjoy softer inserts, but after being very disappointed in the 93a WFB insert I realized I had no desire to purchase anything softer. I felt like my grip and lines were improved with harder inserts, and it allowed me to more effectively make use of bushings like 73a/73a in the front truck. I do remove the Venom HPF when I’m skating garages and riding lower speed runs. That’s where I prefer the 93a Krank for its liveliness and rebound. Also, on trucks like Rogues, the insert and pivot are entirely responsible for eliminating slop because there is no bushing seat. The insert plays an enormous role. I would much rather have a hard insert to feel supported on very soft bushings. I hated the feeling of the way my trucks would deviate from lines and waggle in slides at any speed. If I’m riding at spots that are tuck, lean, and grip, sym spherical bearings are the superior choice. Virtually 100% lateral slop reduction with no restriction on lean. I think your setup methodology doesn’t have enough slop stopping in the front truck. I think inserts first, bushings second is the way to set up trucks.
@@owencampbell777 i did had some strange front truck wooble last time i went on a very steep spot... may be my legs or the gear, or both. But i still have to try sphericals, i just fear they may be less restrictive than inserts : you can't put pressure on steel. Still not sure if the front truck plays a significant part in wooble, a part of me is convinced this is more due to my legs and current truck setup (i ride old 1st gens protos and spent 2 years on dt mollys before that) than to faulty inserts (venom 90a front, 93a back, for both freeride and dh setups)
Front trucks can definitely contribute to wobble. And your hesitation about spherical bearings is true, they won’t restrict your motion. It becomes very dependent on your ankle strength and board control, but the performance gain is lovely on the right surfaces
I think comparing across brands and formulas requires some "adjustments" to duros. From my use of them as barrel bushings. I think these feel about the same hardness (perceived durometer): 87A HPF, 90A APS, and 93A WFB. Not sure about Krank, I have no experience with them. Rebound-wise is a whole other story though, and I think APS feels the most resistive and dead. HPF feels flowy but supported, but WFB feels smooth and lively. So I extrapolate from my barrel bushings experience to your insert bushings experience, and I can just about understand why you don't like Riptide's inserts.
I definitely believe in and practice that kind of extensive testing. Unfortunately, it’s not super conducive for making helpful videos! Not with the amount of time I used to allot to video-making. You definitely know what you’re talking about though. I’d love to try more combos and lower duros.
@@owencampbell777 Oh, btw! How long do insert bushings last for you? I'm currently looking for some narrow freeride trucks, and I'm looking at some Don't Trip Hakis. However, if I have to renew the inserts often (because I weigh 210 lbs and like to run super soft bushings in front, which may affect insert bushing life, perhaps?), then I might lean towards getting Valks instead - because Valks don't use insert bushings, so there's gonna be one less aspect of maintenance.
With a 50/25 angle split, the rear insert lasts at least a year. I’ve changed my front insert so much that I don’t have as much consistent time on it, but I would expect it to last 6-8 months. Rotating them 90 degrees is a great way to get more life out of them
@@owencampbell777 Wow, that actually sounds quite often, NGL. I guess I'm gonna be leaning more towards Valks then. Thx for the info! The problem is, where I live, sourcing specific parts is quite difficult (e.g. insert bushings, plug barrels, elims, chubbies, etc.). More common items, like barrels and, to a certain extent, tall barrels, are so much easier to find.
I don’t think that’s often at all. My estimates are also liberal - I probably won’t even change them that often. It’s a negligible in my mind. You should be changing your bushings that often, anyway.
Its so cool to me how perceptive you are when riding your board, for me it takes a few runs and a few minutes to really see how a truck setup feels. Its so impressive how with each run, and changing something as small as the insert bushing, your able to really differentiate the feeling it gives. Great stuff as always Owen, so excited to see ya and rip with ya this summer.
Insert bushings are significant! I don’t think I have any superpowers; you could provide just as good insight and likely bring a perspective I hadn’t considered.
@@owencampbell777 I’ve never tried em but I def have heard they provide a good bit of difference between each different one. Idk sir ive tried to sit down and make a review like yours but you’re really able to put in to words and describe certain things I thing I struggle with, don’t discredit yourself, you seriously are great at making these videos and breaking them down in such details I don’t even think of.
Fantastic video! I tried most of the venom inserts with my dt dh-cybins and really enjoyed them in 87a riding grippy race wheels 74/81 95/95 and I weigh 145lbs. Keep these gear reviews coming!
Great info. Currently really vibing with 95/95 HPF inserts in my Slalom Rogues. Stock bushing config. I found it helped big time when it came to rougher roads, it stopped my front truck from doing that chunder shuffle.
Finishing this vid up at 3:30am. I didn’t expect someone to be as nerdy as I am about bushings. Also I just acquired two sets of cRogues to upgrade some other decks(like I’m good,lol, I’m still learning how to get speed checks and what not still but you helped me to decide on what duros to buy without worry. Thanks!
Skate nerd for life. Thanks for spending the witching hour with me
I've found that in rogues, going softer with the insert has given the trucks some fantastic personality. I run an 87 in back and 90 in front from venom. It be a good time
Slalom rogues?
Give me the run-down of the setup
@@owencampbell777 I've got 155mm precision rogues 50f 32r, running front 85/87 with 90 insert, rear 90/93 with 87 insert. It's on a landyachtz obsidian, if that adds any influence. I've decided that the higher shore inserts felt too overbearing in relation to the bushings themselves, as it felt like the board side bushing wasn't doing what it needed to as the insert rode up the kingpin. With the more forgiving inserts I feel like you get more out of changes in your bushings. I'm not that hardcore of a rider though, so I'm curious what lower shore inserts would feel like to you
Harder insert front is a little unusual, I won’t lie. I haven’t heard of someone setting up their board that way. Definitely consider flipping that around; once you get used to it, I think you’ll come to enjoy the agility of the front truck and a reliable back end.
I do think that the wider trucks may contribute to the way the insert bushing is loaded in a way that makes soft inserts perform more reliably than in narrower, more temperamental trucks.
Per angle of lean, a higher degree truck will articulate more than a lower degree truck. I know you get this concept, so picture the amount that a 32 degree truck will articulate. It will require significantly less deformation in the insert bushing than your front truck will for the same angle.
This leads me to believe that changing the rear bushing setup will have much less of an impact on overall performance than changing the front. My opinion is to use a harder bushing in the rear to reduce the slop where you need stability the most. You can keep the front insert soft because the front bushings benefit from less restriction so they can deform more drastically.
The cut looks clean bro :). Great job on the vid as always.
I think the Cheetah core fits better with some specific bearings and spacers. Are you using the cuei spacer on em? if not give it a try
I’ve tried them with zealous built-ins, cuei spacers, and machined .400” spacers. Yes, some are a better fit than others, but it’s evident that these cores are the main culprit
@@owencampbell777 Ah ok. Mine fit pretty great with the Bear spaceballs or SMB bears and some other spacers I have. But I do agree with you. I've found different cores work better with some bearings and spacer combos
It’s less of an issue of the size of the spacer and more of an issue with the alignment of the core. I think the bearing seats are misaligned slightly. It’s likely that I got one of the worse sets.
Running a weird setup. 165mm arsenal cast 44s. Venom barrels red roadside green boardside front then riptide plugs with grey boardside red roadside in back truck... basically lively front and firm back. So far so good...
Lively front firm back is the right way to go
I got the hpf inserts in my mollys without much trouble
I just bought a fresh set of HPF inserts last week and they slid into my Cybins much easier than last time. Their tolerances probably vary enough that only some people will need to mod them.
Reconsidering my Riptide bushing exclusivity because of this, a lot of detail here
I have no comment regarding their normal bushings. Might try a bunch one day.
The 95a HPF's Bushings needed a quarter of a breakin. Lol.
Absolutely
Looking forward to the free killers review!
Coming soon
🤙🏼🤙🏼
Pretty sure the Cheetah core is the same Hawgs core they use in Ez Hawgs which are great but man the core sucks so bad. The only bearings that fit ok in it are space balls.
I’m pretty sure it’s they’re street hawg/Cordova cores
I agree with most things you say, but i think you might need some other, different style, spots. In my opinion the "biggest" the insert the better it is, because urethane gets more rebound if put under pressure, and that there is not enough matter in an insert bushing to play a role as significant as bushings... And the main role of an insert is to restraint play betweeen the hanger and the kingpin.
My experience is that : for pure downhill glove down as fast as you can, you use the softest insert you have in front, harder in the back, and you adjust bushings after that
for freeriding you use whatever you feel confortable with, slightly harder insert in front, and something slightly harder than the front in the back
Try soft ones "downhill style" on spots you need lean to stay on the board, i'm sure you'll have a great time
I’m sure there are plenty of situations in which I could enjoy softer inserts, but after being very disappointed in the 93a WFB insert I realized I had no desire to purchase anything softer. I felt like my grip and lines were improved with harder inserts, and it allowed me to more effectively make use of bushings like 73a/73a in the front truck.
I do remove the Venom HPF when I’m skating garages and riding lower speed runs. That’s where I prefer the 93a Krank for its liveliness and rebound.
Also, on trucks like Rogues, the insert and pivot are entirely responsible for eliminating slop because there is no bushing seat. The insert plays an enormous role. I would much rather have a hard insert to feel supported on very soft bushings. I hated the feeling of the way my trucks would deviate from lines and waggle in slides at any speed.
If I’m riding at spots that are tuck, lean, and grip, sym spherical bearings are the superior choice. Virtually 100% lateral slop reduction with no restriction on lean.
I think your setup methodology doesn’t have enough slop stopping in the front truck. I think inserts first, bushings second is the way to set up trucks.
@@owencampbell777 i did had some strange front truck wooble last time i went on a very steep spot... may be my legs or the gear, or both. But i still have to try sphericals, i just fear they may be less restrictive than inserts : you can't put pressure on steel.
Still not sure if the front truck plays a significant part in wooble, a part of me is convinced this is more due to my legs and current truck setup (i ride old 1st gens protos and spent 2 years on dt mollys before that) than to faulty inserts (venom 90a front, 93a back, for both freeride and dh setups)
Front trucks can definitely contribute to wobble. And your hesitation about spherical bearings is true, they won’t restrict your motion. It becomes very dependent on your ankle strength and board control, but the performance gain is lovely on the right surfaces
I think comparing across brands and formulas requires some "adjustments" to duros.
From my use of them as barrel bushings. I think these feel about the same hardness (perceived durometer): 87A HPF, 90A APS, and 93A WFB. Not sure about Krank, I have no experience with them. Rebound-wise is a whole other story though, and I think APS feels the most resistive and dead. HPF feels flowy but supported, but WFB feels smooth and lively.
So I extrapolate from my barrel bushings experience to your insert bushings experience, and I can just about understand why you don't like Riptide's inserts.
I definitely believe in and practice that kind of extensive testing. Unfortunately, it’s not super conducive for making helpful videos! Not with the amount of time I used to allot to video-making.
You definitely know what you’re talking about though. I’d love to try more combos and lower duros.
@@owencampbell777 Oh, btw! How long do insert bushings last for you? I'm currently looking for some narrow freeride trucks, and I'm looking at some Don't Trip Hakis. However, if I have to renew the inserts often (because I weigh 210 lbs and like to run super soft bushings in front, which may affect insert bushing life, perhaps?), then I might lean towards getting Valks instead - because Valks don't use insert bushings, so there's gonna be one less aspect of maintenance.
With a 50/25 angle split, the rear insert lasts at least a year. I’ve changed my front insert so much that I don’t have as much consistent time on it, but I would expect it to last 6-8 months. Rotating them 90 degrees is a great way to get more life out of them
@@owencampbell777 Wow, that actually sounds quite often, NGL. I guess I'm gonna be leaning more towards Valks then. Thx for the info!
The problem is, where I live, sourcing specific parts is quite difficult (e.g. insert bushings, plug barrels, elims, chubbies, etc.). More common items, like barrels and, to a certain extent, tall barrels, are so much easier to find.
I don’t think that’s often at all. My estimates are also liberal - I probably won’t even change them that often. It’s a negligible in my mind. You should be changing your bushings that often, anyway.