I just played and lost because as the killer you have nothing you can do, the survivors are faster, have the plank to drop, have others to help, and more. As the killer you have your weapon and a special…that’s it it’s not fair
I personally still believe that MMR *could* work, but the way its been integrated is awful. If the devs really wanted to add mmr, it should calculate through a "points" system. For proof of concept, lets say completing a generator awards 5 points, each minute chased awards 2, living awards 10, and dying subtracts 10. Then, it could calculate the final value and add or subtract it from your total mmr. This way, each player is rewarded for their contributions. With those #'s (again, a proof of concept), a survivor who finishes two gens, runs the killer for 2 minutes, and then dies ends with a total of +4 points ((5*2)+(2*2)-10). If MMR is to stay, it needs to adjust for more specifics, rather than something so face level as escapes/kills.
to be frank, I dont think a system like that should penalizing death at all, it deincentivizes the conecpt of tactical sacrafice, as I often find that the death of one player, may actually allow others to survive. Point deductions should specifically be reserved to deincentivizes certain playstyles, early face camping for example. Overall though, I'm of the belief that the game shouldnt have competitive matchmaking, the game has too much variation and external factors to reasonable create an MMR system for, even more so when accounting for the fact the this is an asymmetric.
Good video, Gary. The only issue I see with new player integration is that the majority of the time you have a brand new player they are brought into the game with a friend or friends, which means they’ll likely be in SWF with a veteran player. CONTROVERSY IN THE COMMENTS, TH-cam IS A LAWLESS NATION.
It's a good point, but they just get dragged into the chaos with everyone else I guess, the beauty of bot matches being brought in is there is a place to practise!
I'd still argue that Gary's suggestion of the new with new would be beneficial, as if they are playing with a veteran player they have the added benefit of having a teacher who can tell them where to invest BP, what sort of loadouts to run, how to loop etc. whereas the fully new players will have none of that so really need the practice, all the more so for the killers who can't ever really have a teacher with them in a game, so IMO this'd be more fair on new killers and on solo new survivors. However you do make a good point, and if they do do such a method for new players, I'd hope they wouldn't go down the path that league of legends did which is to pick a midpoint between their MMR levels (so a new player 0), which then means that several mid-tier players end up being stomped by someone double their MMR count.
It's not hard to carry players in a team of 4 considering hoe many free of jail cards Survivors have and if all 4 Survivors have multiple ways to escape it can be impossible for the killer to win. That's why I never like that Survivors are all basically all the same and just a reskin with bigger ass or boobs.
Giggling Gary is best Gary, nice ending😄 I'm really digging your presentation style - good and simple structure, amiable pace and very important at least for an academic like me proper citing of literature!
Personally, my problem with MMR has always been the caliber of teammates it gives me. Don't get me wrong, I had way less experienced teammates before MMR, but they are way way way more prevalent now. Also, ranking up in the old system usually meant better teams. Escaping a lot and upping my MMR doesn't seem to have the same result.
MMR is causing so many issues between players. The idea was brilliant and seemed to work at first but the tweaks BHVR have done and the way players have adjusted and the emerging meta means that MMR just isn't working the same anymore. Players need to remember thats its an asymmetrical game, by default the game is never gonna start on an even playing field and that's okay! It's not designed that way. By BHVR trying to make the game equal for both sides means the game will fall into symmetrical and further away from what the game originally was, an asymmetrical game. Brilliant video as ever and really gets me thinking about the dynamics of the game.
I feel like it’s impossible to listen to the community on if the game is killer or survivor sided, because it’s kind of biased, and also based on random chance. For example, when Otzdarva is playing killer and he struggled, everyone in his chat is saying “ugh this *insert whatever* is so survivor sided!” But when he wins, everyone is saying “haha gg ez.” They’re all biased. Nobody watching can accept the fact that he might’ve made a mistake, or just that he got outplayed. He’ll literally win 9/10 games, and then when he loses everybody calls foul on the game saying it’s “survivor sided.” It’s so stupid. TLDR is that people need to accept that sometimes in a video game, you have to lose. And that’s ok. Losing because you got horribly horribly outplayed with seemingly no options is something that happens in this game, and if people can’t accept that, they probably shouldn’t be playing it.
I mean there is 100% quite a lot of obvious balance issues, like outside Otzdarva alone survivor does have the stronger shit then compared to a good chunk of the killer roster, but there are also quite a few killers on par and even 1-2 that are arguably better. Point is that while the balance can be favored towards survivor the 4x amount of players opens up the ability to make far more mistakes and a killer taking advantage of those in "scummy" ways will normally win the match against most average teams. Doesn't make the game balanced but it does help make average skill level games fairly balanced
I don't understand your resistance against letting new players stay in the shallow waters. Why do you want to push new players against the pros eventually? Maybe I don't want to play competitively so I rather stay around other newbies. The game is already difficult for new survivors. While for killers the navigation system and objectives are intuitive, for survivors they're full of nuances and little details that you have to learn, so a novice killer has waaaaaay more chances of sacrificing a novice survivor than a novice survivor has to escape from a novice killer. From my own experience, I keep getting stuck around the tiles. Tiles have little indentations and bumps that can make you get stuck if you hug it too tightly, and since killers are faster than survivors, you have 0 error margin, if you messed it up, you're going to the hook. If I separate from the tile too much, I also get caught, so it seems that no matter what I do, the killer is going to catch me and I'll have to waste time being hooked. And don't even get me started on that miserable 4% bullsh*t, it should be more than that, considering that a hook save can lead to a snowball of dead survivors, all the while you have no choice but to wait until it's your turn to die and you can't do anything about it, because the wiggling thing it's a totally useless mechanic. I don't understand why they decided to program a function that has like 1% chance of triggering.
Removing mmr wont solve the issue, its not about the game that players play whats best, its about human mind. If you would mix up low mmr players with high mmr players, right know, would you get more variety? propably, becaue there would be more players that have no idea what perks are useful, because they learning about the game, and maybe some tryhards would use more fun perks because they stomp noobs anyway. If you ever played games like rainbow six siege, then you should know about this that they have special queue for new players, its unranked, and you know what? it is filled with smurfs, in pay2play game queue made for new players only is filled with high lvl players, that want shit on newbies because of thier ego, so i strongly disagree with "protecting" new players from long tiime users and then place them into pool of all users, it would be a disaster for new players, because mmr have its own purpose TO PROTECT NEW PLAYERS FROM LONG TIME PLAYERS, people learn things in different speed, and they have different backgrounds of experience, so one person can have 150h and be bad, and other can have 30h and be great at game, so mmr would put 30h higher, and 150h lower, based on thier skill level, not some protection for a while and then complete randomness, it would literally kill the rest of fairness. You know why mmr doesnt feel great? this game have ~50k online users per day, its small pool of players when u compare to mmr in league of legends where u have millions of players daily, so its obvious that dbd would have worse mmr then league, and you can't really change that
I HATE the current MMR, when I boot up DBD ranked in ash I don't want to fight RED RANKS bring toolboxes slapped with BNP's, DEAD HARD, BT, DS, BOONS and fucking flashlight blinding, pallet stunning, teabag fucking, SWF builly squads!!! And just to put this out there YES I am not the best killer around, YES I'm a Legion main, NO I haven't unlocked every perk in the game, but this should mean that I SHOULD be stuck in Ash through silver, FOREVER! This also means that I 'SHOULD' be pared up with fellow Ash/Silver survivors, not red ranks! Behavior has made such a cool concept that keeps kicking me in the dick. every. single. time. I. boot. it. up! FIX YOUR CHILD OR HAND IT OVER TO SOMEONE WHO CARES!!!
I feel like dbd is leaned extremely towards survivors. Since i started playing 1½ years ago I didnt face a single killer buff, all the killers thst recieved chsnges reciebed nerfs. and that makes me angry
lately its really a mass. i get matched up with survivors that have like 20 hours in the game vs i have around 1k. so they die after 2mins ingame (especially when the killer focuses them - also a reason why i think kilelrs shouldnt be able to see steam profiles of survivors before the match ) and im left alone with maybe 1 teammate and 4 gens left... not even starting on like 75% of killers nowadays tunnel and facecamp no matter which one they play....
MMR=/=win or loss. MMR is only a game mechanic. The Entity decides if you've won. The objective of the killer is to feed the Entity. If 'The Entity Hungers...' thats a loss even if you got a kill because you've failed the objective. 'Brutal Killer' is a draw. Yeah the entity isn't 'hungry' but she did not have a filling meal. Ruthless and Merciless are a win. Win/Loss has no direct connection to MMR. MMR does not exist in the game world.
"How fair is DBD"...talks 4 of 11 minutes about overwatch...LOL Oh and MMR is a Hoax, they never implemented one. They just turned the Ranks off. I fight the same amount of mixed good and bad players that i face since 2017!
My friends and I were just actually debating if there really is MMR... BHVR has been spending way more time on killer perk balance, killer speed, killer hit boxes, etc... I say killer because lately everything has been. In favor of killers. I play both survivor and killer. I didn't use to ever play killer because it was hard, it's not so much any more, and solo cue survivor is just the worse... So killer it is! One fix they could do is have dedicated servers killers host the lobby and if they have console on wifi, and it's spotty then you get hit when it looks like u made it through the window, idk why BHVR let's this go on, it's been a glaring issue.
I find dbd to be really balanced. Because no matter which role I play I manage to lose
At first i was like wtf no its not then i finished the comment and lold hard haha
hahaha
I just played and lost because as the killer you have nothing you can do, the survivors are faster, have the plank to drop, have others to help, and more. As the killer you have your weapon and a special…that’s it it’s not fair
I personally still believe that MMR *could* work, but the way its been integrated is awful. If the devs really wanted to add mmr, it should calculate through a "points" system. For proof of concept, lets say completing a generator awards 5 points, each minute chased awards 2, living awards 10, and dying subtracts 10. Then, it could calculate the final value and add or subtract it from your total mmr. This way, each player is rewarded for their contributions.
With those #'s (again, a proof of concept), a survivor who finishes two gens, runs the killer for 2 minutes, and then dies ends with a total of +4 points ((5*2)+(2*2)-10). If MMR is to stay, it needs to adjust for more specifics, rather than something so face level as escapes/kills.
to be frank, I dont think a system like that should penalizing death at all, it deincentivizes the conecpt of tactical sacrafice, as I often find that the death of one player, may actually allow others to survive. Point deductions should specifically be reserved to deincentivizes certain playstyles, early face camping for example.
Overall though, I'm of the belief that the game shouldnt have competitive matchmaking, the game has too much variation and external factors to reasonable create an MMR system for, even more so when accounting for the fact the this is an asymmetric.
Good video, Gary. The only issue I see with new player integration is that the majority of the time you have a brand new player they are brought into the game with a friend or friends, which means they’ll likely be in SWF with a veteran player. CONTROVERSY IN THE COMMENTS, TH-cam IS A LAWLESS NATION.
It's a good point, but they just get dragged into the chaos with everyone else I guess, the beauty of bot matches being brought in is there is a place to practise!
I'd still argue that Gary's suggestion of the new with new would be beneficial, as if they are playing with a veteran player they have the added benefit of having a teacher who can tell them where to invest BP, what sort of loadouts to run, how to loop etc. whereas the fully new players will have none of that so really need the practice, all the more so for the killers who can't ever really have a teacher with them in a game, so IMO this'd be more fair on new killers and on solo new survivors.
However you do make a good point, and if they do do such a method for new players, I'd hope they wouldn't go down the path that league of legends did which is to pick a midpoint between their MMR levels (so a new player 0), which then means that several mid-tier players end up being stomped by someone double their MMR count.
It's not hard to carry players in a team of 4 considering hoe many free of jail cards Survivors have and if all 4 Survivors have multiple ways to escape it can be impossible for the killer to win. That's why I never like that Survivors are all basically all the same and just a reskin with bigger ass or boobs.
@@SyLuX636 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you've never had to babysit your entire team and deal with the killer
"How dare you try to enjoy a good time with friend!!!11°°♤•♤°°!!"
Giggling Gary is best Gary, nice ending😄 I'm really digging your presentation style - good and simple structure, amiable pace and very important at least for an academic like me proper citing of literature!
You are smashing it on youtube : D
for me MMR in DbD was a good idea in theory but how the current MMR is calculated might need some work
Great video as always Gary!
only took since 2016 too get some one to make a video about this nice video, no one talks about it ever , it is a 4 vs 1
Personally, my problem with MMR has always been the caliber of teammates it gives me. Don't get me wrong, I had way less experienced teammates before MMR, but they are way way way more prevalent now. Also, ranking up in the old system usually meant better teams. Escaping a lot and upping my MMR doesn't seem to have the same result.
MMR is causing so many issues between players. The idea was brilliant and seemed to work at first but the tweaks BHVR have done and the way players have adjusted and the emerging meta means that MMR just isn't working the same anymore. Players need to remember thats its an asymmetrical game, by default the game is never gonna start on an even playing field and that's okay! It's not designed that way. By BHVR trying to make the game equal for both sides means the game will fall into symmetrical and further away from what the game originally was, an asymmetrical game. Brilliant video as ever and really gets me thinking about the dynamics of the game.
I feel like it’s impossible to listen to the community on if the game is killer or survivor sided, because it’s kind of biased, and also based on random chance. For example, when Otzdarva is playing killer and he struggled, everyone in his chat is saying “ugh this *insert whatever* is so survivor sided!” But when he wins, everyone is saying “haha gg ez.” They’re all biased. Nobody watching can accept the fact that he might’ve made a mistake, or just that he got outplayed. He’ll literally win 9/10 games, and then when he loses everybody calls foul on the game saying it’s “survivor sided.” It’s so stupid.
TLDR is that people need to accept that sometimes in a video game, you have to lose. And that’s ok. Losing because you got horribly horribly outplayed with seemingly no options is something that happens in this game, and if people can’t accept that, they probably shouldn’t be playing it.
I mean there is 100% quite a lot of obvious balance issues, like outside Otzdarva alone survivor does have the stronger shit then compared to a good chunk of the killer roster, but there are also quite a few killers on par and even 1-2 that are arguably better. Point is that while the balance can be favored towards survivor the 4x amount of players opens up the ability to make far more mistakes and a killer taking advantage of those in "scummy" ways will normally win the match against most average teams. Doesn't make the game balanced but it does help make average skill level games fairly balanced
I know. I don't feel comfortable watching him for that reason
@@botondzoltannagy8849 I believe he's talking about his fans, not him in general. Otz never says "gg ez" or is toxic like that.
@@ChuuNebyou That's what i mean.
@@ChuuNebyou I try to ignore his chat. His voice is also really nice but i just can't. I know he's cool tho.
Great video! I agree 100% MMR runs counter to the asymmetrical, random, and non-competitive design of DBD.
Run killer for 5 gens
Get face camped when you've inevitably run out of available things to work with
lose MMR
Brilliant game design
Haha so right!!
I don't understand your resistance against letting new players stay in the shallow waters. Why do you want to push new players against the pros eventually? Maybe I don't want to play competitively so I rather stay around other newbies. The game is already difficult for new survivors. While for killers the navigation system and objectives are intuitive, for survivors they're full of nuances and little details that you have to learn, so a novice killer has waaaaaay more chances of sacrificing a novice survivor than a novice survivor has to escape from a novice killer. From my own experience, I keep getting stuck around the tiles. Tiles have little indentations and bumps that can make you get stuck if you hug it too tightly, and since killers are faster than survivors, you have 0 error margin, if you messed it up, you're going to the hook. If I separate from the tile too much, I also get caught, so it seems that no matter what I do, the killer is going to catch me and I'll have to waste time being hooked. And don't even get me started on that miserable 4% bullsh*t, it should be more than that, considering that a hook save can lead to a snowball of dead survivors, all the while you have no choice but to wait until it's your turn to die and you can't do anything about it, because the wiggling thing it's a totally useless mechanic. I don't understand why they decided to program a function that has like 1% chance of triggering.
Also teamwork is also optional on the team side
So that would also affect “fairness/balance”
Removing mmr wont solve the issue, its not about the game that players play whats best, its about human mind. If you would mix up low mmr players with high mmr players, right know, would you get more variety? propably, becaue there would be more players that have no idea what perks are useful, because they learning about the game, and maybe some tryhards would use more fun perks because they stomp noobs anyway. If you ever played games like rainbow six siege, then you should know about this that they have special queue for new players, its unranked, and you know what? it is filled with smurfs, in pay2play game queue made for new players only is filled with high lvl players, that want shit on newbies because of thier ego, so i strongly disagree with "protecting" new players from long tiime users and then place them into pool of all users, it would be a disaster for new players, because mmr have its own purpose TO PROTECT NEW PLAYERS FROM LONG TIME PLAYERS, people learn things in different speed, and they have different backgrounds of experience, so one person can have 150h and be bad, and other can have 30h and be great at game, so mmr would put 30h higher, and 150h lower, based on thier skill level, not some protection for a while and then complete randomness, it would literally kill the rest of fairness. You know why mmr doesnt feel great? this game have ~50k online users per day, its small pool of players when u compare to mmr in league of legends where u have millions of players daily, so its obvious that dbd would have worse mmr then league, and you can't really change that
I HATE the current MMR, when I boot up DBD ranked in ash I don't want to fight RED RANKS bring toolboxes slapped with BNP's, DEAD HARD, BT, DS, BOONS and fucking flashlight blinding, pallet stunning, teabag fucking, SWF builly squads!!! And just to put this out there YES I am not the best killer around, YES I'm a Legion main, NO I haven't unlocked every perk in the game, but this should mean that I SHOULD be stuck in Ash through silver, FOREVER! This also means that I 'SHOULD' be pared up with fellow Ash/Silver survivors, not red ranks! Behavior has made such a cool concept that keeps kicking me in the dick. every. single. time. I. boot. it. up!
FIX YOUR CHILD OR HAND IT OVER TO SOMEONE WHO CARES!!!
Ranks literally do not matter and it is impossible to know others rank unless you ask. Ranks only award bp and does not show mmr.
I smashed the like button! Just for you Gary 😁
I feel like dbd is leaned extremely towards survivors. Since i started playing 1½ years ago I didnt face a single killer buff, all the killers thst recieved chsnges reciebed nerfs. and that makes me angry
lately its really a mass. i get matched up with survivors that have like 20 hours in the game vs i have around 1k. so they die after 2mins ingame (especially when the killer focuses them - also a reason why i think kilelrs shouldnt be able to see steam profiles of survivors before the match ) and im left alone with maybe 1 teammate and 4 gens left... not even starting on like 75% of killers nowadays tunnel and facecamp no matter which one they play....
MMR=/=win or loss. MMR is only a game mechanic. The Entity decides if you've won. The objective of the killer is to feed the Entity. If 'The Entity Hungers...' thats a loss even if you got a kill because you've failed the objective. 'Brutal Killer' is a draw. Yeah the entity isn't 'hungry' but she did not have a filling meal. Ruthless and Merciless are a win.
Win/Loss has no direct connection to MMR. MMR does not exist in the game world.
I hate competitive DbD.
Give me a fun DBD
Short awnser: NO.
Mmr is a joke
"How fair is DBD"...talks 4 of 11 minutes about overwatch...LOL
Oh and MMR is a Hoax, they never implemented one.
They just turned the Ranks off.
I fight the same amount of mixed good and bad players that i face since 2017!
My friends and I were just actually debating if there really is MMR... BHVR has been spending way more time on killer perk balance, killer speed, killer hit boxes, etc... I say killer because lately everything has been. In favor of killers. I play both survivor and killer. I didn't use to ever play killer because it was hard, it's not so much any more, and solo cue survivor is just the worse... So killer it is!
One fix they could do is have dedicated servers killers host the lobby and if they have console on wifi, and it's spotty then you get hit when it looks like u made it through the window, idk why BHVR let's this go on, it's been a glaring issue.
In short, no dbd is not fair