Lucy’s ORIGINAL Timeline: DI Chambers, Shane Fisher & Harold Slade Before Gideon altered things, Lucy’s mother took her own life and Lucy grew up to become a police detective instead of a child protection officer. She didn’t marry Mike and have their son Isaac, she married her colleague DI Ravi Dhillon. In this timeline, Lucy was the detective assigned to the Fisher murders, which is why she ‘pre-remembered’ Chloe and Tilly Fisher being stabbed by Shane Fisher, until Gideon rectified that too by stabbing Shane to death on the night he would have killed his partner and daughter. After Gideon killed Shane, Chloe Fisher complained of feeling chest pains, as she ‘remembered’ being stabbed in the original timeline. Lucy’s police career also explains why she was able to physically dominate Aiden Stenner’s mother so efficiently when she attacked her - she ‘remembered’ her police training. As a detective, Lucy also worked on the Harold Slade case, after the bodies were found of two young girls he had been abusing and filming in a hidden basement. That’s how she knew that Slade had a violin mounted on his stairs, the 1812 code to his safe, and the existence of the green door to the basement behind the shelving unit. At one point, Lucy’s mother Sylvia - who’d been diagnosed with schizophrenia and dementia, perhaps due to her also being afflicted with ripples of the original timeline in which she had succeeded in taking her own life - recognises Lucy not as her adult daughter (because in that timeline, she didn’t live to see Lucy become an adult) but as the police detective in the Slade case, who appeared on the TV news reporting the murders of Slade’s two victims, whose bodies were pulled out of a river - another tragedy averted by Gideon.
Because the mother was saved, she never had schizophrenia, she was seeing the other time lines, that's how she could watch TV when it was off and spoke to people in the room
Ravi is horrified by blood - The reference to experimenting with the rapist leads me to think there may be a timeline where Gideon experimented on Ravi to make him scared of blood so he wouldn't become a cop and therefore couldn't catch him, and stop Gideon's mission. I mean, Gideon changes Lucy's loop to try and ensure the cop that always caught him would believe his story on the next loop. So why not? Can't wait for the next series
Yeah that's what I was thinking when Gideon said he was experimenting on murderers to hate the site of blood I was like "oh shit does that mean Ravi was a murderer in another time"
I think he was afraid of blood because his previous deaths. I’m curious about Ravi, because he has moments that are similar to Lucy’s, yet he doesn’t have visions. His fear of blood is one. “Weird night for fireworks,” is another, and he said it the day before Lucy woke up, and said “fireworks” in her sleep. It’s strange that he has these moments, yet doesn’t have the full visions.
Who Abducted Isaac? Nobody. Like his Grandmother’s, Isaac’s ‘ripples’ were even stronger than Lucy’s. He and Sylvia had no grip on their present lifetime and often experienced both versions of at once (hence Sylvia watching a TV that wasn’t turned on, and Isaac urinating on the bags at school because “they moved the toilets” - in this lifetime, they had). Worse than Lucy or Sylvia, Isaac could even physically disappear from one lifetime to the other. This is a slightly patchy explanation but… When Isaac disappeared from his bedroom (after it had been ransacked by Gideon), he slipped into the alternative timeline when his mother was a detective and the Warrens were living at No. 7. The Warrens then found him in their house and presumably took him to the police, where DI Lucy Chambers and DI Ravi Dhillon drove him in a black car. In that reality, his mother wouldn’t have recognised him, which explains his relief when he slipped back to his present timeline and Lucy did recognise him (he told Dr Bennett he’d cried when reunited with his mother because “she knew me”.) Any help on how/why Isaac ended up at Harold Slade’s secret house other than by coincidence is much appreciated. That part is still somewhat fuzzy.
Isaac is very different to Sylvia. Almost opposite, in fact! Sylvia is catatonic because her mind and body simply do not know what to do in this new timeline, because she should be dead (and has always died young before, due to always committing suicide), so she almost behaves like it - she's quite literally a living dead 'zombie'. All she knows is how to be dead from that night onwards. It's ingrained in her to be very still, after lifetimes of being so from her late-20s/early-30s onwards (because she's the ultimate 'still': dead). Isaac, on the otherhand, doesn't know how to act not because he should be dead, but because he hasn't ever even been alive before. In the grand scheme of multiple lives, he's the ultimate baby. Much like Evelyn learnt to speak very young, normal babies at least have SOME subconscious memory of their previous lives, so learn things at what we see as a normal rate. But Isaac doesn't have this pre-experience, so he's just learning how to be a human more slowly than normal.
What Was the Significance of the Button? The round brass button Sylvia used to press into her hand to keep her tethered to this reality was from Gideon’s coat. It fell off on the night he sabotaged Sylvia’s suicide and she picked it up, using it as a kind of talisman to bind her to her present timeline. Isaac later used it for the same purpose, and - showing his empathy and kindness - gave it to Ravi when he was grieving DS Holness.
At last, when Gideon said that he always ended up there it was always the same detective, that detective was not Ravi, it was Lucy. Lucy arrests him in every timeline , so he changed lucy's timeline so that she can't arrest him in this one. But in these new altered timeline we saw, Ravi is the detective who replaced Lucy's role and again Gideon was caught in the same situation. That's why he only tried to convince Lucy because he knew, in another lifetime Lucy will again arrest him. Obviously Gideon had some other goals, which he didn't full fil because of Lucy. So he changed her life. But, Gideon getting caught in every lifetime is like an intersection point, which can't be altered. Whatever changes Gideon performs, he will always get caught in that same time and by same person. Gideon did not understand it yet.
Isaac is still alive. He can clearly jump timelines. Past, present and future. The hand print on the window was warm and could only have been made by sweating. Isaac was always cold- so he couldn't have made that hand print otherwise. Hes jumped- hense why Lucy remembers this particular event clearly. Lucy may have died in that fire, but isaac still lives SOMEWHERE. He may be an anomaly, but he still now exists. It's a great premise for a new season as I believe Isaac, his mum and Gideon have unfinished business....in a different timeline.
I think Isaac may or may not be dead. He felt cold but i don't think he actually was cold. He was remembering having the beer dumped on his head and that's why he always felt cold.
@@Behgork I think knowing that hes already jumped to the alternate timeline once for 2 days, it's a pretty safe bet that hes done this. Which coincidentally would also be the reason for the house fire in the alternate timeline. As the person at the end says "they all made it out alive". It didn't say who was in that fire. As for Issacs mum, I dont think shes dead either, shes unconscious from smoke inhalation and shes remembered the alternate timeline- which could symbolize she knows where Isaac is, if theres a 2nd series. I know the producer has a 3 season story planned out. Its whether the next season gets a green light. This season is on a cliff edge for that reason. Let's just hope we get another season to find out more.
@@Sam-zu5mr yeah she's definitely not "dead". She's like Gideon and so can't die in the normal sense, so is just going through alternate timelines trying to "get things right". Totally agree. Isaac could certainly be alive too. It comes down to if he jumped or not and even if he didn't then Gideon is probably wrong about him dying if he dies because he's an anomaly. I think the fact that Gideon was wrong about Isaac's ability to have feelings and love might be a clue to him being wrong about whether he can come back. Either way, it was a cool show and I really enjoyed it, including the ending. I would absolutely watch more.
@@Behgork according to the actors and scriptwriter of the show, its supposed to be a 3 season story arc. However because they arnt sure it's being given the green light to do the next season, they decided to end this show as theve ended it. If the next season does get made, we will find out what happens next. Either way, I enjoyed this show as well. The ending is abit of an interpretation, but I can put up with that. A great watch.
@@Sam-zu5mr could u tell me why isaac doesnt feel anything is it becoz he keeps jumping out of timelines and he is not in one timeline for long or is it bcoz he was not supposed to happen he happened only bcoz gideon saved lucys mother i dont get it
My theory is that Lucy has visions because Gideon saved her in the past, like the girl in the car crash. Lucy then grows up to be a detective, marries Ravi and catches Gideon. Gideon then waits in jail until she is old, visits him and tells him the worst thing that ever happened to her is her mother's death. Then Gideon goes back, stops her mother's death (also kills his cellmate from the previous loop who was going to kill Lucy's work case) and in this loop she is not a cop, marries Mike and has Isaac, two anomalies, Ravi catches Gideon, In the interrogation room Gideon tells her about stopping her mother's death to "wake her up", asks for the shoelace in order to escape, goes to the house, saves Isaac from the fire and takes him to a safe place (Mike says "went BACK in for him and couldn't find him). Lucy goes in the house, dies in the fire and the last scene is her returning to her "natural" destiny in another loop , being a detective, married to Ravi and seeing the fire, but now it's not her house. Sorry for the essay haha, but there is no TLDR for this.
Remember when the Doctor lived for billions of years in that tower, running from a hooded figure and telling himself the story of the sparrow who turned the mountain into dust as he worked little by little to free the TARDIS from behind a wall of azbantium? I was surprised that we didn't see Gideon taking frantic notes as a child about things that would happen in the future. Surely he would have started taking them very early after he found his "purpose."
Isaac is also not the true anomaly...Gideon is. Isaac is the universal cure. He can hop between time loops and therefore correct all the errors Gideon has ever made through multiple lives. Isaac is Gidions nemesis and the true saviour in the making.
I think they both are. Gideon because he was the first to become "aware" of the lives, so far as we can tell. And Isaac somehow can transport between different lives/timelines. It sets a perfect show down between old/young, experience/talent, wisdom/naivety. My unresolved question, why and how did they develop their particular abilities though? It's the one thing that doesn't make sense.
lol, I hear you! I stayed up til' 4:30am & was woken by the phone shortly after 8am, very tired right now, I watched it last night, or should I say early this morning, lol.
Why Was Gideon Looking for Lucy Chambers? I think… because in every one of his lifetimes, he was stopped from completing his to-do list (averting Connor Larson’s future as a rapist, etc.) by police detectives Lucy Chambers and Ravi Dhillon. To stop Lucy from catching him then, he waited 25 years in prison for her to tell him the worst thing she’d ever experienced. When she finally said it was her mother’s suicide, Gideon stopped it from ever having happened, thus stopping Lucy from becoming a detective and catching him. If that was the idea, it didn’t quite work, though, because by altering Lucy’s life so dramatically, he provided her with the very clues she needed to track him down in her new lifetime. Like Evelyn, Lucy, her mother and her son Isaac were all left with ‘ripples’ of the original timeline in the form of invasive hallucinations and nightmares. It was these ‘ripples’ that gave Lucy presentiments about Chloe and Tilly Fisher, Harold Slade’s secret house, the name Aiden Stenner, and a pre-memory of visiting someone called Gideon Shepherd in prison, leading her and Ravi straight to him once again.
Didn’t find it confusing. Was so epic when we realized that he had saved her mom just to prove himself to her. Because she was the detective who always caught him.
I didn't find it confusing, either. I know there are things I have still to discover/realize about the show, but the basic idea that Isaac was seeing other timelines, Lucy was remembering other timelines, and Gideon was acting based on knowledge of other timelines was obvious to me pretty early on.
@@mikeysrose I don't think Isaac is just seeing the other timelines I think he is experiencing all simultaneously or transporting himself to other timelines. He can unknowingly or voluntarily travel between because there is no tracks, he is unbound because he has no preordained destiny he is not meant to be there.
When Gideon said that he always ended up there it was always the same detective, that detective was not Ravi, it was Lucy. Lucy arrests him in every timeline , so he changed lucy's timeline so that she can't arrest him in this one. But in these new altered timeline we saw, Ravi is the detective who replaced Lucy's role and again Gideon was caught in the same situation. That's why he only tried to convince Lucy because he knew, in another lifetime Lucy will again arrest him. Obviously Gideon had some other goals, which he didn't full fil because of Lucy. So he changed her life.
@@bijaymridha8461 Yes, that makes sense, that explains why he seemed obsessed by Lucy at the start of the series. But that was probably already a few loops back, because Gideon also mentions how Ravi "never believed him", and also knew Ravi was at the warehouse with Connor. So Ravi was there at least a couple of times. Or it could be Lucy and Ravi both worked on the case as collegues, and now this was the first time Lucy was not a detective. She only came into the picture this time around, because Gideon had written her name and they were tracking Lucy Chambers-es in the area
I absolutely loved this series. I think Gideon may bit more sinister than people think. In his explanation and retelling of everything. The only times he shows anger is when he talks about getting caught and the years in prison he waited for Lucy to tell him her worst memory. I think this is because Gideon always get caught by Lucy and it stops him from completing his goals. So he changes her life in hopes that she doesn’t become a cop but even in her new life, she aids in capturing him. That’s why he continues to look for her even after changing her life around, that’s why he tries to convince her that Issac is soulless and stalls her from saving her son. I hope for a season 2 and I hope it’s an Isaac vs Gideon show down.
agreed. then again he could have not saved her so died and her anomoly son never born. i mean, if he wanted to stop her capturing him surely if she didnt exist that would be better than just changing her life? or am i getting something wrong here? i admit i am a tad confused.
True, I feel though that the Gideon character does believe himself to be a hero and follows a code of sorts. Which is why I don’t think he will outright kill her. Like a cat and mouse game. Like joker and Batman lol
Are we to believe this is her first lifetime she is living in which he prevented the suicide ? So she is now “making her own tracks” as Gideon put it ? The crossover between the lifetimes giving her glimpses of “memories” etc ?
@@davidcummins9903 I'm not sure if this is her FIRST life where her mother doesn't kill herself. But that could well be absolutely correct...that would explain why Gideon was having trouble finding the correct Lucy Chambers.
This was an episode of Doctor Who. A man with knowledge & abilities beyond normal humans helps people, plus there's a timeless, anomaly of a child. Smells like "Heaven Sent' to me......just a smidge.
My thoughts exactly. A man living through the same life again and again and again, getting a little further every time? I can almost hear 'Shepherd's Boy' in the background from Heaven Sent. Wait a second. Shepherd's Boy? And Gideon is called Gideon Shepherd? I mean, come on!! 😅
@@Sunny_8418 hes the polar opposite of annoying everyone around him just trying to aggravate him. i get the fact he pissed on the bully's bag but it was his bully and + it was an honest mistake
*SPOILERS!* There's no "correct" or "incorrect" timeline. He explains it with the string wrapped around his finger. They all co exist. Isaac can travel between them because he isn't bound to any one of them. I presume this will factor in. He isn't confirmed dead yet. He might have swapped time lines to avoid the fire.
Something of a plot hole. If Isaac is an anomaly, then Malcolm's daughter should also be an anomaly, since she wouldn't have existed were it not for Gideon's intervention. Yet she appears to be normal.
I immediately came here after watching his. I’m still in awe. My jaw is still on the floor. Amazing. It’s been a long time since I was so pulled into a movie. Just wow.
In the real lifetime, Ravi had beard. Lucy was the detective in it. Something was happened with Ravi in that real lifetime too. That's why he was afraid of blood and at first, said something about fireworks, which never happened in the present lifetime. Lucy had glance of that incident too where Ravi in beard, was covered with blood in his face. But that incident is not explained in the series. May be we will know more about the other timeline in season 2.
What Was Haunting Lucy and Isaac’s House? The Warrens. In Lucy’s unaltered lifetime, the Warrens lived at No. 7 instead of her (Debbie said they’d put in an unsuccessful offer on the house). Lucy and Isaac kept experiencing ripples of the Warrens in their home (the smell of the dad’s vaping, footsteps in the loft, Meredith’s unicorn picture on the fridge, the wall they’d knocked through that Isaac kept staring at…) because the other family lived there in Lucy’s original timeline.
The thing I don’t understand is if every child born because of Gideon’s meddling has no soul, why does it seem his neice does a soul? Why is Lucys kid special compared to everyone else that must have been born by Gideon saving someone who goes on to have a kid?
Oo good question. Maybe because it wasn’t the first time he has saved his brother, that his brother’s kid has a recurring loop now. Maybe the first time he killed his father, his brother’s kid was hollow like Issac. Hmm 🤔
Gideon's goals aren't to help Lucy. They're to continue on with his own work. And she gets in his way. So, he is an unreliable narrator. He is presenting the story in the perspective that best fits his goals of being able to continue - like needing the shoelace less to prove a point but to get the aglet.
the final episode of the first series is one of the finest hours of any show ive watched, it caused me to do a complete 180 on my thoughts towards Gideon and Isaac both tragic stories. Gideo especially who i first thought was nothing more than a pyschopath BUT after the revelation of his life i sympathise with him cause his history is horrific imagine living with the knowledge of all that pain and suffering but doing so to make the world a better place (in his opinion). as for Isaac that tore me up poor kid, one of the saddest character stories ive seen.
This is the theme of a book called " Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche. Eternal Recurrence, time being the flat circle. It was used in the first season of True Detective as well. It is a really good book by Nietzsche, you should read it.
One Question: Gideon said Issac is the way he is because he should not exist, however, Gideon also saved his brother and his brother has a normal daughter.
i think Isaac shouldnt be existed bcs Lucy married Ravi and not Mike. but Probably Malcolm always ended up marrying with the same person if he survives? lol. idk
Yes, and also the girl in the car-crash in 1977. Maybe she has children of her own now, and they too would never been born. So I guess there is more to Isaac than we currently know. We've already seen him jump parallel timelines, so he is much more than just a unforseen birth
I think people (esp those who didn’t like or were confused by the ending) are conflating the recurring “many universes” theme with one reality being “the right one”. Isaac frequently says “I’m not supposed to be here”, implying that there was an intended course, and all the others are variations/deviations. Rather, I think each of the universes is its own reality, defined by all the interactions of each of the participants and forces within it. There is not an arbiter of which one is THE reality.
Why Ravi and Nick didn‘t have guns? They‘re cops?! The entire story they didn’t use guns, even if it was necessary (fight with gangsters, chasing Gideon) Whats the point of that?
Here's my interpretation: 1. Gideon wants to keep on playing the hero and "eventually" save people from 9/11 and other disasters eternally. DI chambers keeps on f*cking up his plan so he stops Sylvia from killing herself 2. He didnt expect tho for Isaac to be born, who is the only one who can f*ck up his plans 3. Now Isaac is loose and he can do whatever he wants without being in Gideon's control. Im thinking this will be a showdown between these 2 in s2
I liked it. I love slow burn, psychological thrillers that tickles your mind. More so because I have always been puzzled with deja vu and the theories surrounding it. It actually reminded of several movies and series I watched in the past, namely "The OA", "Dark", "Mirage", and even "The Sixth Sense" or 'The Butterfly Effect"...with a little bit of "Hannibal" in it. I'd probably rate it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
gosh glad someone brought up the oa i remeber watching it long time ago and it intrigued me and i kept dwelling on itt for weeks .....i watched the devils hour and it gives the same feeling ..... the final episode was not what i expected ....it was a great watch and the cast especially gideon and lucy loved them ....
I had multiple issues with plot holes. But the main one is this: Gideon never saved Lucy's mom before. So he never would have met Isaac before. And he had previously been unable to find Lucy in this new loop. So how could Gideon write about Isaac or draw pictures of Isaac's watch if Gideon never had prior memories of loops where Isaac existed?
He jumps timelines and Gideon knew that. Seems to me that he has experience with Isaac jumping in and out in a previous life. A plot hole for me is why did he wait 25 years for her this time? why did he know she would come? Maybe Isaac interacted with him then and kicked all these events off? I really want another season.
@@brandondennis6433 The writers have planned for 3 seasons. It just needs to be renewed. So far it's been doing well with both viewership and rating so fingers crossed
The analogy utilizing the red shoestring explain this, he remembered encounters with Isaak, not that they actually occurred in his own actual real time. He had memories of him. I believe that is why writers used the term “ unbound “. It’s related to the shoelace knots , as well as the child able to intentionally or unintentionally get “ lost “ between those loops demonstrated by Gideon. He must have had a few hundred years to practice getting out of handcuffs with a shoelace tip ( unlikely) . That’s a plot hole. But I could be wrong.
I feel like Gideon was going through his circles and kept getting caught by Lucy and Lucy wouldnt believe his story until the last time, he waiting in jail for 20 years for lucy to show up, terminally ill with cancer its like the thought of what Gideon told her left a mark on her so she ask Gideon to stop her mother from killing herself, thats starts the turn we witness, she marries Mike and has an incel kid but she is not meant a mother she is meant to be a cop to help Gideon save more people. So the next turn she rememebers more, avoids mike and having a child and marries Ravi instead
@@gdnygma490 I think she marries Ravi in the past. I think in this timeline and possibly any future ones Gideon figured out how to eliminate her and not get caught. So I assume he’ll do that again. I think the problem is that Isaac is probably not dead and he escaped to the other timeline where he caused fire to the other family living in the house. He probably will return to his timeline and will end up living with his dad who is horrible to him.
So basically what she was seeing wasn't dreams, visions or the future was all that happened in her past life, but now she was just living them all over again just with different storyline because Gideon change everything when he saved her mother from suicide! Lucie in her previous lives, her mother always died, became a detective, married Ravi and always caught Gideon! she was the detective never believed him that's why he told her he waited for her 25 years before she went to find him to tell him the worst she has experienced. So Gideon saved her mother in the hope that he would find her and when he end up getting caught by the police, he would explain everything to her, he knew that once she saved her mother and changed everything, Lucie would experience moments from her previous life in the hope when she will tell her about all these that she would believe him. That's why the kid had told her and also Gideon that they should never have stayed in this house, that's why she saw the neighbor with a burnt face because it was her family that had the accident with the fire. Now about Ravi I don't understand what happened with him in the other life Lucy saw him dead! I'd love to see what happens to Isaac. Mind blowing series I need more!!
Obviously Isaac wasn't just a husk because wouldn't Gideon's niece have been the same way since he and his brother were supposed to die as children? Plus he's interfering with so many lives that there must be quite a few people who didn't initially exist that do now because of the changes.
This series hurt my brain 😂 The ripple effect seems endless and the series end we've been left with my ore answers.. I feel like I need to watch again but you're right it felt a very long build up to get to an end that isn't quite an ending. But as others have mentioned, there were other ways to prevent things happening which I'm unsure did Gideon try these in other loops? The reference to experimenting with the rapist leads me to think possibly the killings occur because of past experiments to avoid murder. Who knows. There needs to be another series
i so need a season two of this series it was kind of awesome but the timelines and how exactly gideon got to saving lucys mother im confused i loved the cast though so a season two would be great
The hidden clue why he needed to have Lucy glitching is when he says "the same detective keeps on catching me..." And the detective assumes wrongly it's him and says " well maybe I deserve a raise" when the real detective is her and she keeps on putting him rotting in jail, he claims he can always reset but I don't think it's a very pleasant experience, and we only see him being a detective in this timeline but the play on words with guessing what I'll say next and Gideon sarcastically says you good you can go and right next his spot on "that's funny" gives us the confirmation this happened this time line is repeating why is Gideon making the same mistakes to put him self in this situation cause now he's getting life in prison until he (have in mind we're not sure how many times he has come this time line he asks for the shoe lace... So Gideon in a way he's a puppet master he manipulates Lucy to tell her worst fear so he prevents it cause of Evelyn not experiencing her death started to see glitching so if Lucy chambers is not traumatized and becomes a detective hence the sign where is Lucy Chambers and the police cause she's not the detective and married Ravi what is she doing (this would debunk the theory this is not the first experience in this time line) humor me so now he's the detective and we see Ravi's partner in the wedding cause he's supposed to be a cop but he's her colleague in this time line he could had saved Ravi's partner or he claims to had read his obituary but in the rain stand off he only claims you saved the drug dealer kid someone else is going to die ... That was supposed to be a pregnant woman but cause the writers are good and gave us this small twist, it was Lucy that messed up saving the kid's life so the pregnant woman lives and the old couple dies. So the isn't like in Dark 🌑 characters that should not exist like Isaac that can see all timelines and I guess Gideon claims he can also travel this is another clue he had met Isaac and has this knowledge about him but that's a distraction to pass beyond the interrogation room that he waited 25 years to know what he needed to change to cause her in the next lifes to see ripples I have to make a vid cause there's so much dot's connecting I can type fast enough I'll post a link to that video but I hope by now you are following my line of thinking 🤔
Keep in mind Issac is an anomaly in all this, and it was explained that he is, although unaware, capable of traversing the time loops. Maybe in the height of the fire he slipped into another timeline. If you recall, he was stood in Meredith's bedroom facing the window with his hand pressed against it and, before blinking out of existence, left his hand print on it. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤷🏻
You're so right. Because, if you remember when his mom saw him after he was in the woods, he started crying. He said it was because she recognized him. That sentenced alone makes me feel like he's been in another life when she didn't know who he was. He actually does love her.
The part when tip of shoe lace was missing and was revealed that gideon used it for escape... I almost thought he was making this whole thing he's jst a smart criminal in a normal world who bluffs pretty well... Trying to dupe by making scientific stuff predating on a crazy woman and psychpath child..
The way I understood it is that she as a cop would always catch him and wouldn't let him live his full life to make the most impact. So in one lifetime instead of killing himself in the jail, he wait for 25 years for her to tell him what was the most horrible thing that ever happened to her. He then went back to save her mother and activate her seeing the glitches of her past life and therefore next time she catches him (although as a social worker) she now believes him, but unfortunately dies in the fire. I assume she sees her past life and won't reset until he dies.. but then it will be up to him how to play it next time. Maybe learning about her death and Isaac and saving them. Any way great series makes you think.
Capaldi's Gideon is a kind of dark prophet. He may be insane but his preternatural sense of others cannot be explained. There is an X-Files sort of vibe and chemistry between the characters of Lucy and Ravi. The writing is off-the-charts thrilling and the art direction is perfect. I hope a lot of people see this series and ask for a development of Jessica Raine's "Lucy the time detective" in a future series. It's very Dr. Whoish at the end.
I'm thinking Gideon was stalling until Isaac was murdered or killed himself, because Isaac doing that might turn him into a new Gideon (one who conscientiously relives his entire life, rather than simply sees the "ripples" or echoes) or into someone (something) powerful enough to end Gideon's endless looping.
Hey guys I watched the series and enjoyed but I need help understanding something {Spoiler} 1. when Lucy dies in the fire did she really die ? 2. At the end she was called the detective and if you guys remember Gideon saying that he all ways fails because the detective always catches him does anyone think that maybe he was hinting that Lucy was the detective that caught him every time and not Ravi because of the loop?
My theory is yes she died by the fire in this life, as the ‘trade’ for her mom not dying by suicide in this life. And from the glimpse of Lucy in another timeline it does seem like she’s the one that always catches him. I could be wrong tho, let’s just hope this show gets another season so it could be explained better
The logic is weak because by "butterfly effect" there would be lots of children born who otherwise wouldn't have been. Gideon's brother's daughter who he was giving driving lessons to for example and she didn't seem at all like Isaac. Throw in all the ones from the alternative 9/11 that didn't happen and you'd have a small army of Isaacs. Nothing is said that would justify Isaac's uniqueness. Yes, he's the son and grandson of people who have sensitivity to the changing timelines and so would experience traumatic visions but the whole "without a soul" thing would be the same for the others. That's merely one of the logic problems, but as you rightly point out the acting is fantastic and complex. I'm not even sure if there is a "good guy". Gideon's focus on not getting caught by the DI Lucy version of Jessica Raine's character is what causes this whole scenario so I suppose she is just one chapter in Gideon's story. Yes, Gideon has done many apparently altruistic actions and the season is him trying to clean up one of his mistakes but his framing of possible solutions seems limited. You'd think with his vast experience in timelines he'd have taken the time to read some books instead of just learning how to shoot a sniper rifle at petty criminals. Why not expose the gangs to police and press before Aiden or others get involved and abolish poverty while he's at it? His efforts with the would-be rapist and "aversion therapy" (very Clockwork Orange) declares his belief that people are subject to change and not merely born bad. By the way, it wasn't explained how far back in time he went upon his death. His whole life? If so then it seems he could have found some other way of dealing with his own father. We are only shown his decision not to pick up a pine cone to avoid a whipping across his hands and the murder of his father (and something about the slinky toy I didn't quite catch). All that is understandable as a child but if he's relived it so many times since previously reaching adulthood, further examples of other methods are required before getting the audience to believe that the course of actions was inevitable. For example, with his father things escalated when his mother's flirting became more pronounced (didn't warn her what it would lead to) and his father "losing all the money". What was the bad investment? Warn him off with an anonymous note or even share some winning numbers or bets with his dad like he financed his own life. And since he had figured that stuff out about finances, why not build himself an empire with bets, lottery, investments, patents ahead of time, etc, and do some early prevention helping the families of people who he'd later kill or try to educate with torture? Some scholarship money at least. But no, better to spend it on a run down dungeon and rifle and bright red Nissan van. As complex and supposedly smart the character of Gideon is portrayed, his actions mark him as small minded and immature. And that doesn't jive with his understanding of others given his speech to Dhillon's lack of self-perception. Raine's character isn't perfect either. Far from it. She sleeps with her ex-to-be when it suits her, disregarding letting him move on - wicked schmuck that he is (and we don't get a comeuppance for his behavior toward Isaac which is frustrating). She is very, very self-centered. Her affection toward Isaac and her considerable effort with him is merely to have him say "I love you" to her - to be loved, not to love for his sake (and what's the explanation for him finally saying it before he dies in the fire? to get her to rush in and die with him, resetting the timeline? if he was capable of that much manipulation he never showed signs of it before). Detective Ravi Dhillon is also more interested in blaming someone than understanding things and Gideon does point that out. DS Holness was great but the lack of protection and precaution after the gang take down telegraphed his demise (and blatant "Did you lock the back door?" felt patronizing to the audience). Oh, the nurse for mom/grandma... she seemed okay and did nothing awful except ignore every sign that there was something going on, but, hey, such workers are busy. I'm saying that all that complexity was very interesting. Especially Lucy Chambers being so typical of the attractive codependent near narcissist using everyone to make her feel whatever she wants be it sexual relief or loved or how she manipulates DI Dhillon with affectionate passes to keep him involved (yeah, one can say they have something to do with remnant feelings from the other timeline but she doesn't talk to him about her feelings and acts on it only when convenient, sexually baiting him to help her).
I read this entire comment. I agree with alot of your criticism. one thing that I considered is that when Gideon's life resets it seems his memories seem to be a response to his current situation and his decisions are age appropriate. meaning as a kid he wasn't able to process an elaborate plan to avert his father's actions. it's confusing af to say the least but was enjoyable. if the butterfly effect couldn't get it right...
Fantastic thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I think he did reset fully, with memories. So he should have found a way, also there should be many kids with powers...which I think was hinted at because he was taking the people with abilities to a woman to look after them.
@@337julious - I get you but, um, how is brutally stabbing his father more age appropriate than slipping a list of winning horses into his dad's pocket? I end up seeing Gideon as a traumatized child in an old man's body despite his portrayal as part mastermind. Bad casting perhaps. Lucy Chambers self-righteously yells that he knows nothing of love but she has a point. In all those lifetimes he never speaks of finding love, romance, happiness. He just keeps revisiting his trauma attempting only to mitigate the worst effects such as his death though even then he says it was to save his brother, not himself. Pretty low self-worth.
Having tons of other children from the butterfly effect was maybe my main criticism. There would be countless "husks" without souls throughout the world if that were the case. It didn't hang together as an explanation for Isaac
@@IamCree - over time, my chief gripe has increasingly become the self-centeredness of Lucy Chambers and how she does not one thing other than what makes her feel better about herself. She is the "husk" and I'd hang out with Isaac over her any day.
When Peter capaldi's character was saying that Isaac was an anomaly and should not exist and was explaining that is why he has no emotions it reminded me sort of like when fry went back in time and we came his own grandfather so now he lacks the Delta brainwave.
What Next for Gideon? He got out of his handcuffs using the sneaky shoelace tip to pick the lock, neutralised the guards and escaped. Presumably he’s off to start the whole shebang again. As he told Ravi on the night of the storm, sooner or later, he’ll find a way to kill himself and relive the whole thing once more, getting a little further along in his plan every time.
There's rumours of a second and maybe third season. Not sure how they would work out now we've had the big reveal. I guess in the third season, maybe Gideon could find a better way to escape his murderous father , i.e. jump out of the car with his brother before it goes over what looks like Beachy Head, Eastbourne, England. Then he just goes on to saving people without resorting to murder, and maybe become a DI himself. With all the knowledge he'd have accumulated he'd be the best DI EVER ! Mystic Meg DI Gideon Shepherd , who herds the evil people from their evil ways ! Everyone lives happily ever after ! DI Lucy Chambers is the person who guides Gideon to only do good things in future life-death time loops.
I think it explained it very well, a time loop where previas loops can appear as ghosts images or memories is nothing new, Cause and Effect (Star Trek: The Next Generation) has a similar time loop plot but ofc this series being over 6 episodes is far far more complex. Having so much going on was very clever writing, clearly there was something going on with time (the interview being different for instance) but it was something to do with memory how does that fit in, then isac whats going on there, the final pulled the web together, the memories were from multiple loops all to wake her up as capaldi said. The loss of her child (a child that was an anomaly and a new accordance in the loops) was the trigger for the final scene, the fire had happened in other loops which if you remember one of the memories showed the same actress with the same burn, the fact that was not enough to remind her that time tells us there have been enough loops modified to at that point to realise to a greater extent whats going on. That burn shown so early on in the series makes it easy to miss but being there at end linked the final string on the web for me.
Have not listened to this before. The man giving the review was fresh and intelligent in what he said. A real pleasure to listen to. He does not talk for the sake of talking, but each word was considered and thoughtful. It was helpful and I wish more reviews were like this. Thank you .judy
Gideon is the basically living the same set up as The First 15 Lives of Harry August (by Clare North/Catherine Webb). While North's book looked at loopers. This series imagines what life might be like for those who are on the edge of that process.
Started s1 few days ago and just finished s2. Ngl s1 was slow until the final episode when everything started to click into place, and s2 was just insane! I love sci-fi (especially doctor who) and detective/crime shows so this was an absolute emotional rollercoaster that ended with a bang! Can safely say I WILL BE SEATED WHEN S3 DROPS 😂😂
Gideon saved Lucy's mother so he could change the event that he has been caught and imprisoned. He experiments by changing some events to effect his escapt.
OK. I get it now. The ending was ok. But vague. This was a great mind bender. It kept me wondering what the hell was going on, and on the edge of my seat. Great series. I wish we had more.
I liked the performances a I felt so bad for Isaac and was extremely angry at his father for being a dick to him. I do “ Understand “ the ending but there are the that don’t really add up and there is some convolution so ultimately I’m not satisfied with the ending
As to you mentioning that you never heard of '7/7' and only aware of '9/11', the London UK public transport suicide bombings, a series of four coordinated attacks carried out by Islamic terrorists which occurred on 7th July 2005, referred to as ('7/7') have been described as the worst single terrorist atrocity on British soil to date. In the series timeline Gideon apparently prevented this event from happening and so the interviewers also had no recognition of this date.
You could not have said it better. I stayed with the story on the edge of my seat. The ending made me feel like I was going off the cliff. The story was about Lucy’s love for her son, Isaac. Kind of a dark Pinocchio story. But when Isaac has begun learning to love and be human he reaches out to Lucy and…let’s just say it does him no good. And that’s the end of it. I felt conned. I had invested in the journey and suffering of the boy and Poof!-Oh well-he was just a mistake. Horrible. I think the committee of writers were simply told, ‘you have to end it ‘ and they all started fighting. I wonder how many of them had a child that didn’t fit in. 😡
That's the thing, he went a mistake. Gideon only said that because it would hurt Lucy which would help him escape her to continue his work. In this lifetime she ends up dying and Isaac disappears, Ravi defeated (for now). So Gideon waiting to learn her trauma that previous life has given him a way to kill off Lucy , who prevents him doing his work. But Isaac can traverse lives and timelines etc, so eventually he'll find Lucy again and she'll remember. He'll have to learn he to communicate etc. There's a really nice poetry about it. And gives a great plot for a sequel.
Did Isaac and Lucy Die in the Fire? It’s ambiguous. In the finale, we saw Isaac start the fire in his bedroom, and his father Mike initially leave him to burn to death. Later, outside the house, Mike told Lucy that he “went back for” Isaac but couldn’t find him. If Mike’s telling the truth (not a given, he’s lied about other things and is cruel to Isaac), then Isaac may have slipped into the other reality, like he did before. In the other reality though - in which the Warrens live at No. 7 -, the house is also on fire. (Lucy really should have fixed that smoke alarm after she broke it when Ravi made his surprise visit). When Lucy ran in to the flames to find Isaac, she’s in the Warren version of the house and not hers. (Note the framed photograph of the Warrens that breaks and the unicorn wallpaper in Meredith/Isaac’s room). We later saw the Warrens being treated for burns (which Lucy had seen in a vision earlier when talking to Debbie). Lucy choked and passed out while having visions of her life married to Ravi and not Mike. Finally, we see her as a police detective called to the scene of the fire, perhaps signalling that she and Isaac did die in the fire in the timeline Gideon altered, and now she’s back living in her original timeline.
I really enjoyed this show, but there are a view inconsistencies. Gideon sais, Isaac is an anomaly, because he does not exist in the original time line. But then, Gideons brothers children would also be anomalies! And all the others who Gideon saved should also see the ripples. This doesn't make much sense...
What Happened to Jonah Taylor? Gideon abducted the little boy in 2009 to save him because his parents were going to kill him. He took him to live in a remote house in the wilderness where he would be raised by Evelyn, who had suffered similar effects as Lucy after Gideon altered her timeline (by stopping her family from dying in a car accident). Like Lucy, Evelyn kept having flashes of the timeline in which her family had died, which is why she saw other people living in their house. Gideon told her everything and “woke her up” after she was sent to a psychiatric hospital.Now she lives with Jonah, away from the world and the invasive ripples of the other timeline.
idk why i laughed hard alot at some point on this show looking at isaacs behaviour .😂😂😂 especially when he forces a smile when Mike made a Joke ans Mike was like “yikes” . and some others scenes. not sure id its supposed to be funny or just my weird sense of humor. almost feels like they make a parody (sorta) of the spooky kid trope. 😅😅😅 i really enjoyed the show.
It would have been a perfect series for me hadn't been for one question bothering me. It feels like a plot hole. I get that Isaac shouldn't have existed, but Lucy's life isn't the only one affected by Gideon's interfering. What about his brother's children? What about the children of the people he saved from being murdered? Were they all born without a soul?
Also, we are told that Isaac has no soul and cannot love, but then we have seen him crack a smile or two, with his mom and even tells her he loves her on the phone. He could have been pretending but he did look scared when he was left with his father. How can he alter emotions if he cannot feel them. The ending also brushes over a major revelation that Isaac can walk through from lifetime to lifetime (or past lives) and ee never hear about it again.
We know the Never wedding happened in any altered life… Detective Holness is in attendance but Lucy never seen him before in her memory. Only the clock and the Balloons when his murder happened. This show is really confusing and hard to decorticate. I don’t think I’m going to watch the other seasons. Surprised I watched part 2 of the beach! I think I’m personally done with series. Even Amazon’s…. There are no LESSSONS in them
Gideon had a presentiment about being beaten by his father for playing with a pine cone at church (something that had happened to him in every lifetime) and so in one lifetime, chose not to pick up the pine cone and thus avoided the beating. Later, his brother Malcolm’s Slinky toy gave him another presentiment: Gideon ‘remembered’ Malcolm playing with it just before their father killed all three of them by driving off a cliff. To avoid that fate, Gideon fatally stabbed his father. He ran away and every time he was tracked down by the police, he took his own life and started again, this time remembering everything that happened in his previous lifetimes.
Knowing what would happen in the future, Gideon survived on the run by placing bets on sports fixtures for which he already knew the results. One day, he witnessed the death of a young girl named Evelyn in a fatal car crash and realised that in his next lifetime, he could do good by stopping it from happening. He did, and so began a series of lifetimes spent protecting the innocent and averting bad events - fires, murders, rapes, abductions… Sometimes, that meant committing murder - Gideon killed drug dealer Aiden Stenner before Aiden could fatally stab a pregnant woman, paedophile Harold Slade, and domestic abuser and murderer Shane Fisher, thereby saving the lives of their victims.
Why Did Isaac Always Choose the Same Flower Toy? Because it was the only one of the toy set accidentally left behind when the Warren family moved house. Isaac channelled Meredith’s desire for her lost pink flower toy. That’s why he chose the same toy every time he went to the shop, but never played with them - it wasn’t for him, it was for Meredith. The theory goes that because Isaac was the product of an altered timeline (when Gideon stopped his grandmother from killing herself), he was an anomaly bound to neither reality and, as Gideon put it, without a soul (though Lucy obviously had objections to that). Isaac was unable to stay attached to his present timeline and kept drifting into the original timeline in which the Warrens moved into No. 7 instead of No. 14. He essentially lived among the Warrens, seeing them around the house and repeating the things they said.
Interesting. My interpretation is completely the opposite, optimistic: a k a the ending was actually Lucys blessing in deadly (?) disguise. Shepherd was wrong in the most important (?) part of his calculation (it is exemplarily shown his character is far from being all knowing/absent of errors in his thinking) because Lucy - thru her unrelentingly loving parenting through all hardships in her way - in the end truly did succeed in "creating" Isaacs "soul" (as per mentions/scenes of Isaac starting smiling near the end of the show, telling her "he loves her", him spontanely hugging her, him being emotionally disturbed (!) by his fathers hostile behavior towards him etc.) and therefore "patching up" this "space-time anomaly" (unknowingly created by herself by giving birth to him in the first place) which by the time of her/Isaacs unfortunate untimely violent dimise/s (?) once again (?) restored previous "natural order/balance" in her "loop", somehow "echoing" (as "explained" (?) by Shepard) throughout her "future life/lives" resulting in her finally/again finding happiness in her marriage with "policeman" (we see "future" successful policewoman Lucy somehow "remembering" events from her unlucky "past life"). Basically plot reminiscent of Donnie Darko, but done more complex/better. Was wandering if this reading could be closer to authorial intent... My biggest issue with this show lied in the Shepherds treatment, paradoxically (?) also in his "inciting incident" itself. I simply cannot fathom/believe change of his reasoning from 0 to 100: his options were/are just 2 - a k a willingly let his father murder him or murder/kill his father himself? Like really?! What about, f e, at least trying (!) talking (!!!) with someone about his problem first? Also would appreciate more ambivalence (! yes, really) in a sense of ending being more open (!) to non(!)-supernatural explanation, a k a Shepherd/Lucy/Isaac/grandmother etc. being simply group of somehow similarly mentally disturbed individuals burdened by "psychotic" delusions/hallucinations which only by change coincide with real world events - which plot of the last episode imho makes almost (?) explicitly not debatable. Anyhow, when all is said and done, I still simply loved this quite original intelligent quirky little "philosophical thriller". This is how to treat your audience with fundamental respect (and not (!) taking them for the fools) by - at least for the most part - explaining/making sense of mysteries you yourself created for sake of your own show (ehm, Lost comes to mind as horrific example of the opposite creative process...). All in all - great series!
The plot was excelent.. wonderful.. but they wasted 5 chapters on nothing and the whole story really develops only on the last one. This could have been way better told with lots of twists and mind blogging different endings!
Thank you for this, my wife and I had the same questions:) Am I going be the first one to say Lucy/Jessica Rain is talented and gorgeous?? She is what kept me watching after I couldn't figure out exactly what was going on...
I swear the kid who played Isaac deserves an Emmy for that performance
True
He's my favorite character
Ikr. I felt very sad when he died. He had said “I love you mom”
Yes the way he acted was well do expeshily for a child actor
His range was incredible right?
Lucy’s ORIGINAL Timeline: DI Chambers, Shane Fisher & Harold Slade
Before Gideon altered things, Lucy’s mother took her own life and Lucy grew up to become a police detective instead of a child protection officer. She didn’t marry Mike and have their son Isaac, she married her colleague DI Ravi Dhillon. In this timeline, Lucy was the detective assigned to the Fisher murders, which is why she ‘pre-remembered’ Chloe and Tilly Fisher being stabbed by Shane Fisher, until Gideon rectified that too by stabbing Shane to death on the night he would have killed his partner and daughter. After Gideon killed Shane, Chloe Fisher complained of feeling chest pains, as she ‘remembered’ being stabbed in the original timeline. Lucy’s police career also explains why she was able to physically dominate Aiden Stenner’s mother so efficiently when she attacked her - she ‘remembered’ her police training.
As a detective, Lucy also worked on the Harold Slade case, after the bodies were found of two young girls he had been abusing and filming in a hidden basement. That’s how she knew that Slade had a violin mounted on his stairs, the 1812 code to his safe, and the existence of the green door to the basement behind the shelving unit.
At one point, Lucy’s mother Sylvia - who’d been diagnosed with schizophrenia and dementia, perhaps due to her also being afflicted with ripples of the original timeline in which she had succeeded in taking her own life - recognises Lucy not as her adult daughter (because in that timeline, she didn’t live to see Lucy become an adult) but as the police detective in the Slade case, who appeared on the TV news reporting the murders of Slade’s two victims, whose bodies were pulled out of a river - another tragedy averted by Gideon.
Thannnnnkyouuuuuu
I almost forgot about the scene where she defended her self !!!! Thank you !!!!!
Because the mother was saved, she never had schizophrenia, she was seeing the other time lines, that's how she could watch TV when it was off and spoke to people in the room
Thanks
Holy shit! You already know what is going to happen in season 2. I’m sure the makers are worried about you!
Ravi is horrified by blood - The reference to experimenting with the rapist leads me to think there may be a timeline where Gideon experimented on Ravi to make him scared of blood so he wouldn't become a cop and therefore couldn't catch him, and stop Gideon's mission. I mean, Gideon changes Lucy's loop to try and ensure the cop that always caught him would believe his story on the next loop. So why not? Can't wait for the next series
Yeah that's what I was thinking when Gideon said he was experimenting on murderers to hate the site of blood I was like "oh shit does that mean Ravi was a murderer in another time"
I think lucy was the cop he always tried to escape from
I doubt there will be enother series. And it ended pretty well, does it really need one?
@@Shaunicus. it doesn't
I think he was afraid of blood because his previous deaths. I’m curious about Ravi, because he has moments that are similar to Lucy’s, yet he doesn’t have visions. His fear of blood is one. “Weird night for fireworks,” is another, and he said it the day before Lucy woke up, and said “fireworks” in her sleep. It’s strange that he has these moments, yet doesn’t have the full visions.
Who Abducted Isaac?
Nobody. Like his Grandmother’s, Isaac’s ‘ripples’ were even stronger than Lucy’s. He and Sylvia had no grip on their present lifetime and often experienced both versions of at once (hence Sylvia watching a TV that wasn’t turned on, and Isaac urinating on the bags at school because “they moved the toilets” - in this lifetime, they had). Worse than Lucy or Sylvia, Isaac could even physically disappear from one lifetime to the other.
This is a slightly patchy explanation but… When Isaac disappeared from his bedroom (after it had been ransacked by Gideon), he slipped into the alternative timeline when his mother was a detective and the Warrens were living at No. 7. The Warrens then found him in their house and presumably took him to the police, where DI Lucy Chambers and DI Ravi Dhillon drove him in a black car. In that reality, his mother wouldn’t have recognised him, which explains his relief when he slipped back to his present timeline and Lucy did recognise him (he told Dr Bennett he’d cried when reunited with his mother because “she knew me”.) Any help on how/why Isaac ended up at Harold Slade’s secret house other than by coincidence is much appreciated. That part is still somewhat fuzzy.
Amazing insight
Bless you again
Isaac is very different to Sylvia. Almost opposite, in fact!
Sylvia is catatonic because her mind and body simply do not know what to do in this new timeline, because she should be dead (and has always died young before, due to always committing suicide), so she almost behaves like it - she's quite literally a living dead 'zombie'. All she knows is how to be dead from that night onwards. It's ingrained in her to be very still, after lifetimes of being so from her late-20s/early-30s onwards (because she's the ultimate 'still': dead).
Isaac, on the otherhand, doesn't know how to act not because he should be dead, but because he hasn't ever even been alive before. In the grand scheme of multiple lives, he's the ultimate baby. Much like Evelyn learnt to speak very young, normal babies at least have SOME subconscious memory of their previous lives, so learn things at what we see as a normal rate. But Isaac doesn't have this pre-experience, so he's just learning how to be a human more slowly than normal.
What Was the Significance of the Button?
The round brass button Sylvia used to press into her hand to keep her tethered to this reality was from Gideon’s coat. It fell off on the night he sabotaged Sylvia’s suicide and she picked it up, using it as a kind of talisman to bind her to her present timeline. Isaac later used it for the same purpose, and - showing his empathy and kindness - gave it to Ravi when he was grieving DS Holness.
At last, when Gideon said that he always ended up there it was always the same detective, that detective was not Ravi, it was Lucy. Lucy arrests him in every timeline , so he changed lucy's timeline so that she can't arrest him in this one. But in these new altered timeline we saw, Ravi is the detective who replaced Lucy's role and again Gideon was caught in the same situation. That's why he only tried to convince Lucy because he knew, in another lifetime Lucy will again arrest him. Obviously Gideon had some other goals, which he didn't full fil because of Lucy. So he changed her life.
But, Gideon getting caught in every lifetime is like an intersection point, which can't be altered. Whatever changes Gideon performs, he will always get caught in that same time and by same person. Gideon did not understand it yet.
I thought it was an excellent series and the portrayal of the characters was executed brilliantly.
We need more shows like The Devil's Hour...
Isaac is still alive. He can clearly jump timelines. Past, present and future. The hand print on the window was warm and could only have been made by sweating. Isaac was always cold- so he couldn't have made that hand print otherwise. Hes jumped- hense why Lucy remembers this particular event clearly. Lucy may have died in that fire, but isaac still lives SOMEWHERE. He may be an anomaly, but he still now exists. It's a great premise for a new season as I believe Isaac, his mum and Gideon have unfinished business....in a different timeline.
I think Isaac may or may not be dead. He felt cold but i don't think he actually was cold. He was remembering having the beer dumped on his head and that's why he always felt cold.
@@Behgork I think knowing that hes already jumped to the alternate timeline once for 2 days, it's a pretty safe bet that hes done this. Which coincidentally would also be the reason for the house fire in the alternate timeline. As the person at the end says "they all made it out alive". It didn't say who was in that fire. As for Issacs mum, I dont think shes dead either, shes unconscious from smoke inhalation and shes remembered the alternate timeline- which could symbolize she knows where Isaac is, if theres a 2nd series. I know the producer has a 3 season story planned out. Its whether the next season gets a green light. This season is on a cliff edge for that reason. Let's just hope we get another season to find out more.
@@Sam-zu5mr yeah she's definitely not "dead". She's like Gideon and so can't die in the normal sense, so is just going through alternate timelines trying to "get things right". Totally agree. Isaac could certainly be alive too. It comes down to if he jumped or not and even if he didn't then Gideon is probably wrong about him dying if he dies because he's an anomaly. I think the fact that Gideon was wrong about Isaac's ability to have feelings and love might be a clue to him being wrong about whether he can come back. Either way, it was a cool show and I really enjoyed it, including the ending. I would absolutely watch more.
@@Behgork according to the actors and scriptwriter of the show, its supposed to be a 3 season story arc. However because they arnt sure it's being given the green light to do the next season, they decided to end this show as theve ended it. If the next season does get made, we will find out what happens next. Either way, I enjoyed this show as well. The ending is abit of an interpretation, but I can put up with that. A great watch.
@@Sam-zu5mr could u tell me why isaac doesnt feel anything is it becoz he keeps jumping out of timelines and he is not in one timeline for long or is it bcoz he was not supposed to happen he happened only bcoz gideon saved lucys mother i dont get it
My theory is that Lucy has visions because Gideon saved her in the past, like the girl in the car crash. Lucy then grows up to be a detective, marries Ravi and catches Gideon. Gideon then waits in jail until she is old, visits him and tells him the worst thing that ever happened to her is her mother's death.
Then Gideon goes back, stops her mother's death (also kills his cellmate from the previous loop who was going to kill Lucy's work case) and in this loop she is not a cop, marries Mike and has Isaac, two anomalies, Ravi catches Gideon, In the interrogation room Gideon tells her about stopping her mother's death to "wake her up", asks for the shoelace in order to escape, goes to the house, saves Isaac from the fire and takes him to a safe place (Mike says "went BACK in for him and couldn't find him).
Lucy goes in the house, dies in the fire and the last scene is her returning to her "natural" destiny in another loop , being a detective, married to Ravi and seeing the fire, but now it's not her house.
Sorry for the essay haha, but there is no TLDR for this.
Thanks for this, very helpful. But what was Gideon’s overall goal? What was he getting caught for every time?
I love complicated stories, but living 50+ years every time you want to correct something is the worst timeline/time travel thing ever.
Sorry I don't agree with that!
Makes more sense than a flux capacitor
Remember when the Doctor lived for billions of years in that tower, running from a hooded figure and telling himself the story of the sparrow who turned the mountain into dust as he worked little by little to free the TARDIS from behind a wall of azbantium?
I was surprised that we didn't see Gideon taking frantic notes as a child about things that would happen in the future. Surely he would have started taking them very early after he found his "purpose."
Yeah i disagree i think the concept was fucking amazing
@@Oliver-lt7ye Thanks for the back up, where you from Oliver?
Isaac is also not the true anomaly...Gideon is. Isaac is the universal cure. He can hop between time loops and therefore correct all the errors Gideon has ever made through multiple lives. Isaac is Gidions nemesis and the true saviour in the making.
Wow! That's a great analysis. I definitely don't think Isaac didn't matter.
I think they both are. Gideon because he was the first to become "aware" of the lives, so far as we can tell. And Isaac somehow can transport between different lives/timelines.
It sets a perfect show down between old/young, experience/talent, wisdom/naivety.
My unresolved question, why and how did they develop their particular abilities though? It's the one thing that doesn't make sense.
@@nicbongo iv given you the answer. I hope it helps you understand why he has powers
Must admit him and his dad got on like a house on fire
well it is sci-fi@@nicbongo
Stayed up until 6am watching this. Paying for it today, but no regrets. Absolutely amazing.
Hope you get some sleep
Watching an episode at 3:33am must have been something for you 👍
lol, I hear you! I stayed up til' 4:30am & was woken by the phone shortly after 8am, very tired right now, I watched it last night, or should I say early this morning, lol.
One year later, but SAME brother. I stayed up all day watching knowing I have to work overnight 😂
I wanted to see more of Issac, I wanted him to say how terrible his father was treating him. Saying daddy made me cold wasn't enough for me.
Yes me too. Also why was issac void ? I didn't understand that part
@@DJI4minipro.journeys read all the other posts please. It’ll explain it all.
I agree! I wanted more of Issac
Same here!!
Why Was Gideon Looking for Lucy Chambers?
I think… because in every one of his lifetimes, he was stopped from completing his to-do list (averting Connor Larson’s future as a rapist, etc.) by police detectives Lucy Chambers and Ravi Dhillon. To stop Lucy from catching him then, he waited 25 years in prison for her to tell him the worst thing she’d ever experienced. When she finally said it was her mother’s suicide, Gideon stopped it from ever having happened, thus stopping Lucy from becoming a detective and catching him. If that was the idea, it didn’t quite work, though, because by altering Lucy’s life so dramatically, he provided her with the very clues she needed to track him down in her new lifetime.
Like Evelyn, Lucy, her mother and her son Isaac were all left with ‘ripples’ of the original timeline in the form of invasive hallucinations and nightmares. It was these ‘ripples’ that gave Lucy presentiments about Chloe and Tilly Fisher, Harold Slade’s secret house, the name Aiden Stenner, and a pre-memory of visiting someone called Gideon Shepherd in prison, leading her and Ravi straight to him once again.
Didn’t find it confusing. Was so epic when we realized that he had saved her mom just to prove himself to her. Because she was the detective who always caught him.
I didn't find it confusing, either. I know there are things I have still to discover/realize about the show, but the basic idea that Isaac was seeing other timelines, Lucy was remembering other timelines, and Gideon was acting based on knowledge of other timelines was obvious to me pretty early on.
@@mikeysrose I don't think Isaac is just seeing the other timelines I think he is experiencing all simultaneously or transporting himself to other timelines. He can unknowingly or voluntarily travel between because there is no tracks, he is unbound because he has no preordained destiny he is not meant to be there.
When Gideon said that he always ended up there it was always the same detective, that detective was not Ravi, it was Lucy. Lucy arrests him in every timeline , so he changed lucy's timeline so that she can't arrest him in this one. But in these new altered timeline we saw, Ravi is the detective who replaced Lucy's role and again Gideon was caught in the same situation. That's why he only tried to convince Lucy because he knew, in another lifetime Lucy will again arrest him. Obviously Gideon had some other goals, which he didn't full fil because of Lucy. So he changed her life.
@@bijaymridha8461 Yes, that makes sense, that explains why he seemed obsessed by Lucy at the start of the series. But that was probably already a few loops back, because Gideon also mentions how Ravi "never believed him", and also knew Ravi was at the warehouse with Connor. So Ravi was there at least a couple of times. Or it could be Lucy and Ravi both worked on the case as collegues, and now this was the first time Lucy was not a detective. She only came into the picture this time around, because Gideon had written her name and they were tracking Lucy Chambers-es in the area
I absolutely loved this series. I think Gideon may bit more sinister than people think. In his explanation and retelling of everything. The only times he shows anger is when he talks about getting caught and the years in prison he waited for Lucy to tell him her worst memory. I think this is because Gideon always get caught by Lucy and it stops him from completing his goals. So he changes her life in hopes that she doesn’t become a cop but even in her new life, she aids in capturing him. That’s why he continues to look for her even after changing her life around, that’s why he tries to convince her that Issac is soulless and stalls her from saving her son. I hope for a season 2 and I hope it’s an Isaac vs Gideon show down.
agreed. then again he could have not saved her so died and her anomoly son never born.
i mean, if he wanted to stop her capturing him surely if she didnt exist that would be better than just changing her life?
or am i getting something wrong here? i admit i am a tad confused.
True, I feel though that the Gideon character does believe himself to be a hero and follows a code of sorts. Which is why I don’t think he will outright kill her. Like a cat and mouse game. Like joker and Batman lol
miniseries from the start, based on a book i thiiiiink not sure tho
In a previous timeline Lucy told Gideon her mum killed herself that's why he prevented it, changing the timeline for Lucy.
Are we to believe this is her first lifetime she is living in which he prevented the suicide ? So she is now “making her own tracks” as Gideon put it ? The crossover between the lifetimes giving her glimpses of “memories” etc ?
@@davidcummins9903 I'm not sure if this is her FIRST life where her mother doesn't kill herself. But that could well be absolutely correct...that would explain why Gideon was having trouble finding the correct Lucy Chambers.
This was an episode of Doctor Who. A man with knowledge & abilities beyond normal humans helps people, plus there's a timeless, anomaly of a child. Smells like "Heaven Sent' to me......just a smidge.
My thoughts exactly. A man living through the same life again and again and again, getting a little further every time? I can almost hear 'Shepherd's Boy' in the background from Heaven Sent. Wait a second. Shepherd's Boy? And Gideon is called Gideon Shepherd? I mean, come on!! 😅
Yep loved it @@Szenora
I LOVE the child😂. So chill and mature, makes the adults look like needy hysterical children...kinda reminds me of childhood 😁
He's a wicked little actor, hope to see him more he plays creepy well.
@@GaryNewsom1 not really creepy, just annoying, he doesn’t talk
@@Sunny_8418 hes the polar opposite of annoying everyone around him just trying to aggravate him. i get the fact he pissed on the bully's bag but it was his bully and + it was an honest mistake
*SPOILERS!*
There's no "correct" or "incorrect" timeline. He explains it with the string wrapped around his finger. They all co exist. Isaac can travel between them because he isn't bound to any one of them. I presume this will factor in. He isn't confirmed dead yet. He might have swapped time lines to avoid the fire.
Something of a plot hole. If Isaac is an anomaly, then Malcolm's daughter should also be an anomaly, since she wouldn't have existed were it not for Gideon's intervention. Yet she appears to be normal.
normal? she was like appearing to LUCY as a ghost when she was in the house and was generally creepy af haha
This is hands down one of the best series this year in general and my number 1 series for this year.
I immediately came here after watching his. I’m still in awe. My jaw is still on the floor. Amazing. It’s been a long time since I was so pulled into a movie. Just wow.
In the real lifetime, Ravi had beard. Lucy was the detective in it. Something was happened with Ravi in that real lifetime too. That's why he was afraid of blood and at first, said something about fireworks, which never happened in the present lifetime. Lucy had glance of that incident too where Ravi in beard, was covered with blood in his face. But that incident is not explained in the series.
May be we will know more about the other timeline in season 2.
What Was Haunting Lucy and Isaac’s House?
The Warrens. In Lucy’s unaltered lifetime, the Warrens lived at No. 7 instead of her (Debbie said they’d put in an unsuccessful offer on the house). Lucy and Isaac kept experiencing ripples of the Warrens in their home (the smell of the dad’s vaping, footsteps in the loft, Meredith’s unicorn picture on the fridge, the wall they’d knocked through that Isaac kept staring at…) because the other family lived there in Lucy’s original timeline.
The thing I don’t understand is if every child born because of Gideon’s meddling has no soul, why does it seem his neice does a soul? Why is Lucys kid special compared to everyone else that must have been born by Gideon saving someone who goes on to have a kid?
It could be he’s part of a loop? Whereas the others are not. Like Meredith.
Maybe Gideon was just wrong about that. That was certainly Lucy's takeaway after listening to the voicemail.
Oo good question. Maybe because it wasn’t the first time he has saved his brother, that his brother’s kid has a recurring loop now. Maybe the first time he killed his father, his brother’s kid was hollow like Issac. Hmm 🤔
Gideon's goals aren't to help Lucy. They're to continue on with his own work. And she gets in his way. So, he is an unreliable narrator. He is presenting the story in the perspective that best fits his goals of being able to continue - like needing the shoelace less to prove a point but to get the aglet.
the final episode of the first series is one of the finest hours of any show ive watched, it caused me to do a complete 180 on my thoughts towards Gideon and Isaac both tragic stories. Gideo especially who i first thought was nothing more than a pyschopath BUT after the revelation of his life i sympathise with him cause his history is horrific imagine living with the knowledge of all that pain and suffering but doing so to make the world a better place (in his opinion).
as for Isaac that tore me up poor kid, one of the saddest character stories ive seen.
This is the theme of a book called " Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche. Eternal Recurrence, time being the flat circle. It was used in the first season of True Detective as well. It is a really good book by Nietzsche, you should read it.
One Question: Gideon said Issac is the way he is because he should not exist, however, Gideon also saved his brother and his brother has a normal daughter.
i think Isaac shouldnt be existed bcs Lucy married Ravi and not Mike. but Probably Malcolm always ended up marrying with the same person if he survives? lol. idk
I think Gideon doesn't "know" everything. He says as much. Maybe his theories about why Isaac is emotionless and jumping timelines is just... wrong.
Yes, and also the girl in the car-crash in 1977. Maybe she has children of her own now, and they too would never been born. So I guess there is more to Isaac than we currently know. We've already seen him jump parallel timelines, so he is much more than just a unforseen birth
@@raymondhartmeijer9300She doesn’t have her own I think she’s taking care of the kids Gideon saves in the house without time ripples.
I think people (esp those who didn’t like or were confused by the ending) are conflating the recurring “many universes” theme with one reality being “the right one”. Isaac frequently says “I’m not supposed to be here”, implying that there was an intended course, and all the others are variations/deviations. Rather, I think each of the universes is its own reality, defined by all the interactions of each of the participants and forces within it. There is not an arbiter of which one is THE reality.
Why Ravi and Nick didn‘t have guns? They‘re cops?! The entire story they didn’t use guns, even if it was necessary (fight with gangsters, chasing Gideon) Whats the point of that?
its called the united kingdom
@@TheSparkyBoy24❤😂
Good ol Brits😆
Here's my interpretation:
1. Gideon wants to keep on playing the hero and "eventually" save people from 9/11 and other disasters eternally. DI chambers keeps on f*cking up his plan so he stops Sylvia from killing herself
2. He didnt expect tho for Isaac to be born, who is the only one who can f*ck up his plans
3. Now Isaac is loose and he can do whatever he wants without being in Gideon's control. Im thinking this will be a showdown between these 2 in s2
I liked it. I love slow burn, psychological thrillers that tickles your mind. More so because I have always been puzzled with deja vu and the theories surrounding it. It actually reminded of several movies and series I watched in the past, namely "The OA", "Dark", "Mirage", and even "The Sixth Sense" or 'The Butterfly Effect"...with a little bit of "Hannibal" in it. I'd probably rate it 7.5 or 8 out of 10.
Reminded me of Dark so much!
gosh glad someone brought up the oa i remeber watching it long time ago and it intrigued me and i kept dwelling on itt for weeks .....i watched the devils hour and it gives the same feeling ..... the final episode was not what i expected ....it was a great watch and the cast especially gideon and lucy loved them ....
Yes the ending definitely reminded me of dark. The Bleak finality of a timeline needing to end and sad but something that feels right at the same time
@nk3382 lol like bro. Very intellectually satisfying and stimulating.
He saved Lucy's mum so that Lucy can sort of start hearing the music and believe him since it's clear she is the one who keeps catching him.
I loved Isaac !! I want him back in season 2!!!!
I had multiple issues with plot holes. But the main one is this: Gideon never saved Lucy's mom before. So he never would have met Isaac before. And he had previously been unable to find Lucy in this new loop. So how could Gideon write about Isaac or draw pictures of Isaac's watch if Gideon never had prior memories of loops where Isaac existed?
Maybe he lied
He jumps timelines and Gideon knew that. Seems to me that he has experience with Isaac jumping in and out in a previous life. A plot hole for me is why did he wait 25 years for her this time? why did he know she would come? Maybe Isaac interacted with him then and kicked all these events off? I really want another season.
@@brandondennis6433 The writers have planned for 3 seasons. It just needs to be renewed. So far it's been doing well with both viewership and rating so fingers crossed
The analogy utilizing the red shoestring explain this, he remembered encounters with Isaak, not that they actually occurred in his own actual real time. He had memories of him. I believe that is why writers used the term “ unbound “. It’s related to the shoelace knots , as well as the child able to intentionally or unintentionally get “ lost “ between those loops demonstrated by Gideon. He must have had a few hundred years to practice getting out of handcuffs with a shoelace tip ( unlikely) . That’s a plot hole. But I could be wrong.
@@brandondennis6433 Yeah... I'm still trying to figure why he stayed in jail for 25 years.
I feel like Gideon was going through his circles and kept getting caught by Lucy and Lucy wouldnt believe his story until the last time, he waiting in jail for 20 years for lucy to show up, terminally ill with cancer its like the thought of what Gideon told her left a mark on her so she ask Gideon to stop her mother from killing herself, thats starts the turn we witness, she marries Mike and has an incel kid but she is not meant a mother she is meant to be a cop to help Gideon save more people. So the next turn she rememebers more, avoids mike and having a child and marries Ravi instead
That’s great except the whole story is about her relationship with her son. Now that we invest in that it all was just a big wrong turn.
@@melissasokol3127 the story is not exclusivly about the relationship with her son. Far from it. You´re the only one making that interpretation
Agree but I think the last scene when she is a cop is her past life not her future one
@@heysartre I think she is a cop in the past life as well … but answer me this .. do you think she marries Ravi in the past or future ?
@@gdnygma490 I think she marries Ravi in the past. I think in this timeline and possibly any future ones Gideon figured out how to eliminate her and not get caught. So I assume he’ll do that again. I think the problem is that Isaac is probably not dead and he escaped to the other timeline where he caused fire to the other family living in the house. He probably will return to his timeline and will end up living with his dad who is horrible to him.
So basically what she was seeing wasn't dreams, visions or the future was all that happened in her past life, but now she was just living them all over again just with different storyline because Gideon change everything when he saved her mother from suicide!
Lucie in her previous lives, her mother always died, became a detective, married Ravi and always caught Gideon! she was the detective never believed him that's why he told her he waited for her 25 years before she went to find him to tell him the worst she has experienced.
So Gideon saved her mother in the hope that he would find her and when he end up getting caught by the police, he would explain everything to her, he knew that once she saved her mother and changed everything, Lucie would experience moments from her previous life
in the hope when she will tell her about all these that she would believe him.
That's why the kid had told her and also Gideon that they should never have stayed in this house, that's why she saw the neighbor with a burnt face because it was her family that had the accident with the fire. Now about Ravi I don't understand what happened with him in the other life Lucy saw him dead! I'd love to see what happens to Isaac. Mind blowing series I need more!!
“Negative, I’m a meat popsicle.” Lol
Multiiiiiiiiiiiipaaaaasssss
Obviously Isaac wasn't just a husk because wouldn't Gideon's niece have been the same way since he and his brother were supposed to die as children? Plus he's interfering with so many lives that there must be quite a few people who didn't initially exist that do now because of the changes.
This series hurt my brain 😂
The ripple effect seems endless and the series end we've been left with my ore answers.. I feel like I need to watch again but you're right it felt a very long build up to get to an end that isn't quite an ending. But as others have mentioned, there were other ways to prevent things happening which I'm unsure did Gideon try these in other loops? The reference to experimenting with the rapist leads me to think possibly the killings occur because of past experiments to avoid murder. Who knows. There needs to be another series
i so need a season two of this series it was kind of awesome but the timelines and how exactly gideon got to saving lucys mother im confused i loved the cast though so a season two would be great
The hidden clue why he needed to have Lucy glitching is when he says "the same detective keeps on catching me..." And the detective assumes wrongly it's him and says " well maybe I deserve a raise" when the real detective is her and she keeps on putting him rotting in jail, he claims he can always reset but I don't think it's a very pleasant experience, and we only see him being a detective in this timeline but the play on words with guessing what I'll say next and Gideon sarcastically says you good you can go and right next his spot on "that's funny" gives us the confirmation this happened this time line is repeating why is Gideon making the same mistakes to put him self in this situation cause now he's getting life in prison until he (have in mind we're not sure how many times he has come this time line he asks for the shoe lace... So Gideon in a way he's a puppet master he manipulates Lucy to tell her worst fear so he prevents it cause of Evelyn not experiencing her death started to see glitching so if Lucy chambers is not traumatized and becomes a detective hence the sign where is Lucy Chambers and the police cause she's not the detective and married Ravi what is she doing (this would debunk the theory this is not the first experience in this time line) humor me so now he's the detective and we see Ravi's partner in the wedding cause he's supposed to be a cop but he's her colleague in this time line he could had saved Ravi's partner or he claims to had read his obituary but in the rain stand off he only claims you saved the drug dealer kid someone else is going to die ... That was supposed to be a pregnant woman but cause the writers are good and gave us this small twist, it was Lucy that messed up saving the kid's life so the pregnant woman lives and the old couple dies. So the isn't like in Dark 🌑 characters that should not exist like Isaac that can see all timelines and I guess Gideon claims he can also travel this is another clue he had met Isaac and has this knowledge about him but that's a distraction to pass beyond the interrogation room that he waited 25 years to know what he needed to change to cause her in the next lifes to see ripples I have to make a vid cause there's so much dot's connecting I can type fast enough I'll post a link to that video but I hope by now you are following my line of thinking 🤔
Keep in mind Issac is an anomaly in all this, and it was explained that he is, although unaware, capable of traversing the time loops.
Maybe in the height of the fire he slipped into another timeline. If you recall, he was stood in Meredith's bedroom facing the window with his hand pressed against it and, before blinking out of existence, left his hand print on it.
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤷🏻
That's true. So he could be alive.
You're so right. Because, if you remember when his mom saw him after he was in the woods, he started crying. He said it was because she recognized him.
That sentenced alone makes me feel like he's been in another life when she didn't know who he was. He actually does love her.
Great. Then he is all alone again. Hmmm
Well, apparently the story is a trilogy and if they get the green light to film series 2, we may find out more.
@@jooie444 but it's a limited series?
so everytime gideon dies...does he have to start again from the moment he was born?,,,and also change all the things he changed in the previous loop?
The part when tip of shoe lace was missing and was revealed that gideon used it for escape... I almost thought he was making this whole thing he's jst a smart criminal in a normal world who bluffs pretty well... Trying to dupe by making scientific stuff predating on a crazy woman and psychpath child..
The way I understood it is that she as a cop would always catch him and wouldn't let him live his full life to make the most impact. So in one lifetime instead of killing himself in the jail, he wait for 25 years for her to tell him what was the most horrible thing that ever happened to her. He then went back to save her mother and activate her seeing the glitches of her past life and therefore next time she catches him (although as a social worker) she now believes him, but unfortunately dies in the fire. I assume she sees her past life and won't reset until he dies.. but then it will be up to him how to play it next time. Maybe learning about her death and Isaac and saving them. Any way great series makes you think.
Capaldi's Gideon is a kind of dark prophet. He may be insane but his preternatural sense of others cannot be explained. There is an X-Files sort of vibe and chemistry between the characters of Lucy and Ravi. The writing is off-the-charts thrilling and the art direction is perfect. I hope a lot of people see this series and ask for a development of Jessica Raine's "Lucy the time detective" in a future series. It's very Dr. Whoish at the end.
I'm thinking Gideon was stalling until Isaac was murdered or killed himself, because Isaac doing that might turn him into a new Gideon (one who conscientiously relives his entire life, rather than simply sees the "ripples" or echoes) or into someone (something) powerful enough to end Gideon's endless looping.
Gideon changed everyone's lives for many main characters by saving Lucy's moms life and he was attempting to get Lucy to remember.
This was an AMAZING series! I stayed up all night & watched it in one night!!
To me the ending left more questions than answers which I am happy about if there is to be a second season.
2nd and 3rd series are coming... I did a whole video on the news. 🙂
Hey guys I watched the series and enjoyed but I need help understanding something {Spoiler} 1. when Lucy dies in the fire did she really die ? 2. At the end she was called the detective and if you guys remember Gideon saying that he all ways fails because the detective always catches him does anyone think that maybe he was hinting that Lucy was the detective that caught him every time and not Ravi because of the loop?
My theory is yes she died by the fire in this life, as the ‘trade’ for her mom not dying by suicide in this life. And from the glimpse of Lucy in another timeline it does seem like she’s the one that always catches him. I could be wrong tho, let’s just hope this show gets another season so it could be explained better
The logic is weak because by "butterfly effect" there would be lots of children born who otherwise wouldn't have been. Gideon's brother's daughter who he was giving driving lessons to for example and she didn't seem at all like Isaac. Throw in all the ones from the alternative 9/11 that didn't happen and you'd have a small army of Isaacs. Nothing is said that would justify Isaac's uniqueness. Yes, he's the son and grandson of people who have sensitivity to the changing timelines and so would experience traumatic visions but the whole "without a soul" thing would be the same for the others.
That's merely one of the logic problems, but as you rightly point out the acting is fantastic and complex. I'm not even sure if there is a "good guy". Gideon's focus on not getting caught by the DI Lucy version of Jessica Raine's character is what causes this whole scenario so I suppose she is just one chapter in Gideon's story. Yes, Gideon has done many apparently altruistic actions and the season is him trying to clean up one of his mistakes but his framing of possible solutions seems limited. You'd think with his vast experience in timelines he'd have taken the time to read some books instead of just learning how to shoot a sniper rifle at petty criminals. Why not expose the gangs to police and press before Aiden or others get involved and abolish poverty while he's at it? His efforts with the would-be rapist and "aversion therapy" (very Clockwork Orange) declares his belief that people are subject to change and not merely born bad.
By the way, it wasn't explained how far back in time he went upon his death. His whole life? If so then it seems he could have found some other way of dealing with his own father. We are only shown his decision not to pick up a pine cone to avoid a whipping across his hands and the murder of his father (and something about the slinky toy I didn't quite catch). All that is understandable as a child but if he's relived it so many times since previously reaching adulthood, further examples of other methods are required before getting the audience to believe that the course of actions was inevitable. For example, with his father things escalated when his mother's flirting became more pronounced (didn't warn her what it would lead to) and his father "losing all the money". What was the bad investment? Warn him off with an anonymous note or even share some winning numbers or bets with his dad like he financed his own life.
And since he had figured that stuff out about finances, why not build himself an empire with bets, lottery, investments, patents ahead of time, etc, and do some early prevention helping the families of people who he'd later kill or try to educate with torture? Some scholarship money at least. But no, better to spend it on a run down dungeon and rifle and bright red Nissan van.
As complex and supposedly smart the character of Gideon is portrayed, his actions mark him as small minded and immature. And that doesn't jive with his understanding of others given his speech to Dhillon's lack of self-perception.
Raine's character isn't perfect either. Far from it.
She sleeps with her ex-to-be when it suits her, disregarding letting him move on - wicked schmuck that he is (and we don't get a comeuppance for his behavior toward Isaac which is frustrating). She is very, very self-centered.
Her affection toward Isaac and her considerable effort with him is merely to have him say "I love you" to her - to be loved, not to love for his sake (and what's the explanation for him finally saying it before he dies in the fire? to get her to rush in and die with him, resetting the timeline? if he was capable of that much manipulation he never showed signs of it before).
Detective Ravi Dhillon is also more interested in blaming someone than understanding things and Gideon does point that out.
DS Holness was great but the lack of protection and precaution after the gang take down telegraphed his demise (and blatant "Did you lock the back door?" felt patronizing to the audience).
Oh, the nurse for mom/grandma... she seemed okay and did nothing awful except ignore every sign that there was something going on, but, hey, such workers are busy.
I'm saying that all that complexity was very interesting. Especially Lucy Chambers being so typical of the attractive codependent near narcissist using everyone to make her feel whatever she wants be it sexual relief or loved or how she manipulates DI Dhillon with affectionate passes to keep him involved (yeah, one can say they have something to do with remnant feelings from the other timeline but she doesn't talk to him about her feelings and acts on it only when convenient, sexually baiting him to help her).
I read this entire comment. I agree with alot of your criticism. one thing that I considered is that when Gideon's life resets it seems his memories seem to be a response to his current situation and his decisions are age appropriate. meaning as a kid he wasn't able to process an elaborate plan to avert his father's actions. it's confusing af to say the least but was enjoyable. if the butterfly effect couldn't get it right...
Fantastic thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I think he did reset fully, with memories. So he should have found a way, also there should be many kids with powers...which I think was hinted at because he was taking the people with abilities to a woman to look after them.
@@337julious - I get you but, um, how is brutally stabbing his father more age appropriate than slipping a list of winning horses into his dad's pocket?
I end up seeing Gideon as a traumatized child in an old man's body despite his portrayal as part mastermind. Bad casting perhaps.
Lucy Chambers self-righteously yells that he knows nothing of love but she has a point. In all those lifetimes he never speaks of finding love, romance, happiness. He just keeps revisiting his trauma attempting only to mitigate the worst effects such as his death though even then he says it was to save his brother, not himself. Pretty low self-worth.
Having tons of other children from the butterfly effect was maybe my main criticism. There would be countless "husks" without souls throughout the world if that were the case. It didn't hang together as an explanation for Isaac
@@IamCree - over time, my chief gripe has increasingly become the self-centeredness of Lucy Chambers and how she does not one thing other than what makes her feel better about herself. She is the "husk" and I'd hang out with Isaac over her any day.
Great series, fills the hole of where the OA left me. Love me timeline/time loop shows
The first show to come close to scratching the itch Netflix's Dark left.
When Peter capaldi's character was saying that Isaac was an anomaly and should not exist and was explaining that is why he has no emotions it reminded me sort of like when fry went back in time and we came his own grandfather so now he lacks the Delta brainwave.
This show is a masterpiece
Agreed. Absolutely brilliantly conceived.
What Next for Gideon?
He got out of his handcuffs using the sneaky shoelace tip to pick the lock, neutralised the guards and escaped. Presumably he’s off to start the whole shebang again. As he told Ravi on the night of the storm, sooner or later, he’ll find a way to kill himself and relive the whole thing once more, getting a little further along in his plan every time.
There's rumours of a second and maybe third season. Not sure how they would work out now we've had the big reveal.
I guess in the third season, maybe Gideon could find a better way to escape his murderous father , i.e. jump out of the car with his brother before it goes over what looks like Beachy Head, Eastbourne, England. Then he just goes on to saving people without resorting to murder, and maybe become a DI himself. With all the knowledge he'd have accumulated he'd be the best DI EVER !
Mystic Meg DI Gideon Shepherd , who herds the evil people from their evil ways ! Everyone lives happily ever after !
DI Lucy Chambers is the person who guides Gideon to only do good things in future life-death time loops.
I think it explained it very well, a time loop where previas loops can appear as ghosts images or memories is nothing new, Cause and Effect (Star Trek: The Next Generation) has a similar time loop plot but ofc this series being over 6 episodes is far far more complex. Having so much going on was very clever writing, clearly there was something going on with time (the interview being different for instance) but it was something to do with memory how does that fit in, then isac whats going on there, the final pulled the web together, the memories were from multiple loops all to wake her up as capaldi said. The loss of her child (a child that was an anomaly and a new accordance in the loops) was the trigger for the final scene, the fire had happened in other loops which if you remember one of the memories showed the same actress with the same burn, the fact that was not enough to remind her that time tells us there have been enough loops modified to at that point to realise to a greater extent whats going on. That burn shown so early on in the series makes it easy to miss but being there at end linked the final string on the web for me.
How am I going to understand this if even you can’t 😂😂
Hahahaha... I'm not that smart. You'll be okay.😅
One of the few programmes that I enjoyed, found thought provoking, had a good script with good acting and wanting a sequel(s)..
Have not listened to this before. The man giving the review was fresh and intelligent in what he said. A real pleasure to listen to. He does not talk for the sake of talking, but each word was considered and thoughtful. It was helpful and I wish more reviews were like this. Thank you .judy
A very kind comment. Thank you.
The kid reminds me of me as a kid and the mother reminds me of me as an adult 👀
Gideon is the basically living the same set up as The First 15 Lives of Harry August (by Clare North/Catherine Webb). While North's book looked at loopers. This series imagines what life might be like for those who are on the edge of that process.
Good News! , The Devil's Hour has been renewed for 2 more seasons.
Just did a news article on the press release. 🙂
Started s1 few days ago and just finished s2. Ngl s1 was slow until the final episode when everything started to click into place, and s2 was just insane! I love sci-fi (especially doctor who) and detective/crime shows so this was an absolute emotional rollercoaster that ended with a bang! Can safely say I WILL BE SEATED WHEN S3 DROPS 😂😂
What about the adult Issac who asks Gideon why he killed his mother…that came and went in a flash without explanation
Something that i didn't understand is that why Lucy's mom has visions of other timelines?? It doesn't add up!
Gideon saved Lucy's mother so he could change the event that he has been caught and imprisoned. He experiments by changing some events to effect his escapt.
OK. I get it now. The ending was ok. But vague. This was a great mind bender. It kept me wondering what the hell was going on, and on the edge of my seat. Great series. I wish we had more.
Do u know more such mind bending series?
@@dhinchakpooja4722 Yes.
"Dark" on Netflix. It is a series but wow the time bending was fabulous.
I loved the series BUT why was Lucy in the Warren’s house in the ending scene when the house was on fire?!
I liked the performances a I felt so bad for Isaac and was extremely angry at his father for being a dick to him. I do “ Understand “ the ending but there are the that don’t really add up and there is some convolution so ultimately I’m not satisfied with the ending
You couldn't tell from early on that it was a groundhog day type of thing? I enjoyed this show, Isaac is the creepiest kid ever.
Nope, guess you are more switched on than I am. Thanks for watching and pointing that out
Why did he kill the cops? There’s nothing virtuous or noble about that.
I love the cast. I might check it out for that reason. I saw Peter Capaldi and immediately added it to my queue. I love Jessica R. As well.
Hope you enjoy
@@TheRubyTuesday it was excellent. Very well done and unique.
As to you mentioning that you never heard of '7/7' and only aware of '9/11', the London UK public transport suicide bombings, a series of four coordinated attacks carried out by Islamic terrorists which occurred on 7th July 2005, referred to as ('7/7') have been described as the worst single terrorist atrocity on British soil to date. In the series timeline Gideon apparently prevented this event from happening and so the interviewers also had no recognition of this date.
You could not have said it better. I stayed with the story on the edge of my seat. The ending made me feel like I was going off the cliff. The story was about Lucy’s love for her son, Isaac. Kind of a dark Pinocchio story. But when Isaac has begun learning to love and be human he reaches out to Lucy and…let’s just say it does him no good. And that’s the end of it. I felt conned. I had invested in the journey and suffering of the boy and Poof!-Oh well-he was just a mistake. Horrible. I think the committee of writers were simply told, ‘you have to end it ‘ and they all started fighting. I wonder how many of them had a child that didn’t fit in. 😡
Exactly 😅
yea same here i was so bummed like i wanted lucy to get back with isaac
The writers have planned for a second season.
That's the thing, he went a mistake. Gideon only said that because it would hurt Lucy which would help him escape her to continue his work.
In this lifetime she ends up dying and Isaac disappears, Ravi defeated (for now). So Gideon waiting to learn her trauma that previous life has given him a way to kill off Lucy , who prevents him doing his work.
But Isaac can traverse lives and timelines etc, so eventually he'll find Lucy again and she'll remember. He'll have to learn he to communicate etc. There's a really nice poetry about it. And gives a great plot for a sequel.
Em Lucy asked him to create the new time loop. She was very sick when she saw him in prison
Yes! This makes much more sense.
Did Isaac and Lucy Die in the Fire?
It’s ambiguous. In the finale, we saw Isaac start the fire in his bedroom, and his father Mike initially leave him to burn to death. Later, outside the house, Mike told Lucy that he “went back for” Isaac but couldn’t find him. If Mike’s telling the truth (not a given, he’s lied about other things and is cruel to Isaac), then Isaac may have slipped into the other reality, like he did before.
In the other reality though - in which the Warrens live at No. 7 -, the house is also on fire. (Lucy really should have fixed that smoke alarm after she broke it when Ravi made his surprise visit).
When Lucy ran in to the flames to find Isaac, she’s in the Warren version of the house and not hers. (Note the framed photograph of the Warrens that breaks and the unicorn wallpaper in Meredith/Isaac’s room). We later saw the Warrens being treated for burns (which Lucy had seen in a vision earlier when talking to Debbie). Lucy choked and passed out while having visions of her life married to Ravi and not Mike. Finally, we see her as a police detective called to the scene of the fire, perhaps signalling that she and Isaac did die in the fire in the timeline Gideon altered, and now she’s back living in her original timeline.
I really enjoyed this show, but there are a view inconsistencies. Gideon sais, Isaac is an anomaly, because he does not exist in the original time line. But then, Gideons brothers children would also be anomalies! And all the others who Gideon saved should also see the ripples. This doesn't make much sense...
i have a question, why does issac always buys the toy flower everytime lucy takes him to the toy shop? if anyone can explain
What Happened to Jonah Taylor?
Gideon abducted the little boy in 2009 to save him because his parents were going to kill him. He took him to live in a remote house in the wilderness where he would be raised by Evelyn, who had suffered similar effects as Lucy after Gideon altered her timeline (by stopping her family from dying in a car accident). Like Lucy, Evelyn kept having flashes of the timeline in which her family had died, which is why she saw other people living in their house. Gideon told her everything and “woke her up” after she was sent to a psychiatric hospital.Now she lives with Jonah, away from the world and the invasive ripples of the other timeline.
This was easily the best show I've watched this year
idk why i laughed hard alot at some point on this show looking at isaacs behaviour .😂😂😂 especially when he forces a smile when Mike made a Joke ans Mike was like “yikes” . and some others scenes. not sure id its supposed to be funny or just my weird sense of humor. almost feels like they make a parody (sorta) of the spooky kid trope. 😅😅😅 i really enjoyed the show.
It would have been a perfect series for me hadn't been for one question bothering me. It feels like a plot hole. I get that Isaac shouldn't have existed, but Lucy's life isn't the only one affected by Gideon's interfering. What about his brother's children? What about the children of the people he saved from being murdered? Were they all born without a soul?
Also, we are told that Isaac has no soul and cannot love, but then we have seen him crack a smile or two, with his mom and even tells her he loves her on the phone. He could have been pretending but he did look scared when he was left with his father. How can he alter emotions if he cannot feel them. The ending also brushes over a major revelation that Isaac can walk through from lifetime to lifetime (or past lives) and ee never hear about it again.
We know the Never wedding happened in any altered life… Detective Holness is in attendance but Lucy never seen him before in her memory. Only the clock and the Balloons when his murder happened. This show is really confusing and hard to decorticate. I don’t think I’m going to watch the other seasons.
Surprised I watched part 2 of the beach! I think I’m personally done with series. Even Amazon’s…. There are no LESSSONS in them
As you are watching it, you may not realise which timeline or life it may be in. That’s important.
Loved the beginning and the end the middle was just the middle
Gideon had a presentiment about being beaten by his father for playing with a pine cone at church (something that had happened to him in every lifetime) and so in one lifetime, chose not to pick up the pine cone and thus avoided the beating. Later, his brother Malcolm’s Slinky toy gave him another presentiment: Gideon ‘remembered’ Malcolm playing with it just before their father killed all three of them by driving off a cliff.
To avoid that fate, Gideon fatally stabbed his father. He ran away and every time he was tracked down by the police, he took his own life and started again, this time remembering everything that happened in his previous lifetimes.
Knowing what would happen in the future, Gideon survived on the run by placing bets on sports fixtures for which he already knew the results. One day, he witnessed the death of a young girl named Evelyn in a fatal car crash and realised that in his next lifetime, he could do good by stopping it from happening. He did, and so began a series of lifetimes spent protecting the innocent and averting bad events - fires, murders, rapes, abductions… Sometimes, that meant committing murder - Gideon killed drug dealer Aiden Stenner before Aiden could fatally stab a pregnant woman, paedophile Harold Slade, and domestic abuser and murderer Shane Fisher, thereby saving the lives of their victims.
Why Did Isaac Always Choose the Same Flower Toy?
Because it was the only one of the toy set accidentally left behind when the Warren family moved house. Isaac channelled Meredith’s desire for her lost pink flower toy. That’s why he chose the same toy every time he went to the shop, but never played with them - it wasn’t for him, it was for Meredith.
The theory goes that because Isaac was the product of an altered timeline (when Gideon stopped his grandmother from killing herself), he was an anomaly bound to neither reality and, as Gideon put it, without a soul (though Lucy obviously had objections to that). Isaac was unable to stay attached to his present timeline and kept drifting into the original timeline in which the Warrens moved into No. 7 instead of No. 14. He essentially lived among the Warrens, seeing them around the house and repeating the things they said.
this was an amazing serie ! really liked it, extremely mind fucking lol
Exactly that
Yeah, being a child protection worker would be hell
Interesting. My interpretation is completely the opposite, optimistic: a k a the ending was actually Lucys blessing in deadly (?) disguise.
Shepherd was wrong in the most important (?) part of his calculation (it is exemplarily shown his character is far from being all knowing/absent of errors in his thinking) because Lucy - thru her unrelentingly loving parenting through all hardships in her way - in the end truly did succeed in "creating" Isaacs "soul" (as per mentions/scenes of Isaac starting smiling near the end of the show, telling her "he loves her", him spontanely hugging her, him being emotionally disturbed (!) by his fathers hostile behavior towards him etc.) and therefore "patching up" this "space-time anomaly"
(unknowingly created by herself by giving birth to him in the first place) which by the time of her/Isaacs unfortunate untimely violent dimise/s (?) once again (?) restored previous "natural order/balance" in her "loop", somehow "echoing" (as "explained" (?) by Shepard) throughout her "future life/lives" resulting in her finally/again finding happiness in her marriage with "policeman" (we see "future" successful policewoman Lucy somehow "remembering" events from her unlucky "past life"). Basically plot reminiscent of Donnie Darko, but done more complex/better. Was wandering if this reading could be closer to authorial intent...
My biggest issue with this show lied in the Shepherds treatment, paradoxically (?) also in his "inciting incident" itself. I simply cannot fathom/believe change of his reasoning from 0 to 100: his options were/are just 2 - a k a willingly let his father murder him or murder/kill his father himself? Like really?! What about, f e, at least trying (!) talking (!!!) with someone about his problem first?
Also would appreciate more ambivalence (! yes, really) in a sense of ending being more open (!) to non(!)-supernatural explanation, a k a Shepherd/Lucy/Isaac/grandmother etc. being simply group of somehow similarly mentally disturbed individuals burdened by "psychotic" delusions/hallucinations which only by change coincide with real world events - which plot of the last episode imho makes almost (?) explicitly not debatable.
Anyhow, when all is said and done, I still simply loved this quite original intelligent quirky little "philosophical thriller". This is how to treat your audience with fundamental respect (and not (!) taking them for the fools) by - at least for the most part - explaining/making sense of mysteries you yourself created for sake of your own show (ehm, Lost comes to mind as horrific example of the opposite creative process...). All in all - great series!
The plot was excelent.. wonderful.. but they wasted 5 chapters on nothing and the whole story really develops only on the last one. This could have been way better told with lots of twists and mind blogging different endings!
The ending was really breaking and rage inducing at the same time.
I did a video on season 2 and 3 being renewed. So hopefully you'll get some of the answers you need when the second season comes
the ending is so well that we dont need another season
Well, we are getting two more
Fucking excellent series but bloody confusing
I don’t understand one thing in the end. Is she now retaining her past life memories and going after him?
Thank you for this, my wife and I had the same questions:) Am I going be the first one to say Lucy/Jessica Rain is talented and gorgeous?? She is what kept me watching after I couldn't figure out exactly what was going on...