I'm a student at the Vermont Woodworking School. I'm doing cabinet doors with a conical bend at the corner for door pulls (think page of a book slightly turned over). I'm using walnut burl veneer for the outer layer of the doors and all my teachers told me your book, and this procedure, was the one and only way they would flatten burl veneer. Thanks so much for making an accompanying video!
@@imaginegrove Hey hope you're able to answer a quick question. I started the flattening process this past Monday (Saturday today). The veneer (highly figured walnut burl), although significantly more pliable and flatter, is still holding ripples and a slight dampness in certain areas. I am direct to paper now, no screen, for 2 days with 200lb on the calls and the paper is staying dry. Should I restart the process or be patient until the veneer has lost all moisture? I'm kind of in a time crunch so maybe I'm being impatient..
@@imaginegrove I still have waves over 1/8" high/deep I'm worried about how it will laminate. I appreciate your responses a lot! I've got enough extra I'm going to cut out an especially wavy section and see if it will laminate flat.
@@tomstark28 I am also thinking you don't have enough pressure for the flattening process. I use a vacuum press and cauls and clamps. 200 lbs I don't think is enough. minimum would be 1000 PSF - 1500 is better - roughly 22 "hg
Wow! I've only softened veneer when it was too warped to accurately work with; I didn't appreciate/consider the effect it would have on general workability. I think I may start softening all my veneer projects where any cuts are required. Thanks so much!
The glue binds the molecules of the other liquids. Think of it as coating the moleclues, which then repels the glycerin molecules. When you add the glycerin fist the molcules can group (mix) together then the glue coats all the ingrediants and doesn't turn to slop.
thanks, yeah heated forms are not within reach for me. This method allows me and my students to veneer just about any form. You can check out my courses here imaginewoodworking.com/pages/courses-and-demonstrations Enjoy!
Thank you. I'm a beginner am just getting into this. Very informative here. Would be interesting to weight the batch before and after to see what you added to the wood in terms of weight.
Whew- just came across your videos after gluing up some small table tops. Had some very small chipping on birdseye maple veneer. My veneer was dry and a pain to be so careful with. It turned out ok for others but want better quality. Your video here is very very helpful and I will start conditioning on my next projects in a few days. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.
this makes working with any veneer a real joy. Glad to share. Check out my longer veneering videos here imaginewoodworking.com/ Oh yeah, I've written a book too. Advanced Veneering and alternative techniques.
I was just with Jim at AWFS in Vegas. Great guy. Here is the video a shot with him at Havery Tool th-cam.com/video/R-Z3hZT-iVI/w-d-xo.html thanks for your support @@mikeminnick9712
Absolutely love and appreciate your videos and the knowledge you convey. I have one question on the veneer conditioner -- do you find that the glue left behind affects the ability of a stain or finish to evenly penetrate, or does the remaining glue sort of act as a sanding sealer, or something else? Thanks in advance -- keep it up.
Hi. Nice informative video. Just what I need, as getting commercial veneer conditioners to Canada is very expensive (shipping / customs in particular) and not quick. You at one point said “Go Bills”. Yes, go Bills.
I agree this is an awesome video and ill be buying the book .. im only commenting because I too was about to buy conditioner from a supply house .. 10 dollar 8oz bottle 15 dollar shipping but they will reimburse you the difference between actual shipping costs and the posted cost .... but in store credit .. so Im so Glad I found this video
@@michaelkowalenko492 no im in the usa it was veneer supplies .. , he has really nice veneer and the site is super informative but was really put off by the shipping policy "store credit??!!" Im .. "he does say on his tips page that this very process in the video will make the veneer sticky and create finishing problems , thats why he recommends super soft 2 . I compared the safety data sheet with that and three other veneer conditioners , they are all Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether ... im definitely buying this book and going to make a batch of the conditioner One other thing .. i was going to but a bittle of heat loc glue , ive used it in the last and it works great , however There is a video on youtube called "building a 13,000 turntable " the guy uses titebond to heat set his veneer .... apparently you can use yellow glue and and iron to set veneer .. its a must watch
I love your videos but have a couple of questions about something that I didn't see mentioned. After going thru the flattening process with your recipe, 1) Can the flattened dried veneer be laid down using a urea based glue or will that cause compatibility issues?, and 2) after pressing and scraping, sanding, etc what does the dried sizing cause finish issues? Types of finishes that you have used successfully afterwards? Thank you in advance for guidance and please keep making content as time permits.
yes, you can use urea glue, and I haven't had any problems with the color of the veneer or finish. I typically use lacquer or conversion varnish. A number of my students use shellac and oil. No complaints from them either.
Thank you for sharing this video, I hope to find time to take one of your classes someday. I'm having trouble finding glycerin locally, where do you get yours? Is Vegetable Glycerin what you use or is there a different kind?
I use Animed Glycerin, not sure about vegetable. In a pinch I get mine from Rite Aid www.riteaid.com/shop/rite-aid-glycerin-usp-skin-protectant-6-oz-177-ml-0306447 but try a farm a feed store for gallon units for about $40 www.countrymax.com/animed-glycerine-gallon/
yes and no, but adding the conditioner you will be introducing more moisture making the veneer expand, creating more or large wrinkles. With that said, IF, the veneer is very dry and brittle, spraying some one with help you clamp or iron it back down. This of course depends on the type of glue was used. Hope this helps.
@@imaginegrove How about a veneer glued to a 100 year old piece of furniture? I have this Birdseye maple tall dresser that I'm trying to fix its top swollen up veneer, and it's very dry. I will break it immediately if I try to push it flat...
@@angiem215 with an old piece the glue holding the veneer will be hide glue, , heat and moisture will release the bond. (and stress in the wood will too - hence the wrinkles) I'd spray the wrinkled area and let it soak in, then use an iron to heat the surface & wood to slowly press is back in place. then when removing the heat, keep pressing with a flat board for the glue to re-solidify and achier to the core. Testing a small area is always a good idea. Lastly, heat alone may work
Only apply it to raw veneer. I never use paper backed, and suspect it would release the paper, if not the seams too. Effect stain slightly, but is consistent. (I don't stain much either) Hope this helps. Always test first. Good luck
I’ve been using a commercial softener (super soft 2) on raw mappa Burl veneer. It’s so wavy I have to apply softener then I put in the bag on top of paper and hand massage it flat, applying the vacuum in stages as I massage out the wrinkles. Can’t stack it in the press the first go round or it will fold over on itself. After first pressing I put paper both sides and swap for dry paper every few hours. After it’s flat and fairly dry I stack it with screen and paper. As soon as I take it out to work it starts getting wavy again. Do you think the glue in your mix would help it stay flat when it’s in open air?
@@imaginegrove I can’t find the titebond white glue locally, will another white pva work? I can get titebond all purpose white seems similar with half the VOC
Perhaps, but this will stick in the mind better, the little tips are helpful, watching someone do the activity is in itself quite educational and valuable to beginner/amateur. But yes it is long.
I'm a student at the Vermont Woodworking School. I'm doing cabinet doors with a conical bend at the corner for door pulls (think page of a book slightly turned over). I'm using walnut burl veneer for the outer layer of the doors and all my teachers told me your book, and this procedure, was the one and only way they would flatten burl veneer. Thanks so much for making an accompanying video!
Glad to help, send me a image when it is done. happy veneering.
@@imaginegrove Hey hope you're able to answer a quick question. I started the flattening process this past Monday (Saturday today). The veneer (highly figured walnut burl), although significantly more pliable and flatter, is still holding ripples and a slight dampness in certain areas. I am direct to paper now, no screen, for 2 days with 200lb on the calls and the paper is staying dry. Should I restart the process or be patient until the veneer has lost all moisture? I'm kind of in a time crunch so maybe I'm being impatient..
@@tomstark28 changed the paper a few times. You should be good to go. Don't start over.
@@imaginegrove I still have waves over 1/8" high/deep I'm worried about how it will laminate. I appreciate your responses a lot! I've got enough extra I'm going to cut out an especially wavy section and see if it will laminate flat.
@@tomstark28 I am also thinking you don't have enough pressure for the flattening process.
I use a vacuum press and cauls and clamps. 200 lbs I don't think is enough. minimum would be 1000 PSF - 1500 is better - roughly 22 "hg
Incredible, thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge. You're a credit to your profession. Keep on smiling.
Thank you! Will do!
Outstanding process, and a really good video, too. Thanks for doing this, Scott.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow! I've only softened veneer when it was too warped to accurately work with; I didn't appreciate/consider the effect it would have on general workability. I think I may start softening all my veneer projects where any cuts are required. Thanks so much!
yes, works like leather
That was brilliant, so helpful. Thank you.
Glad it helped
The glue binds the molecules of the other liquids. Think of it as coating the moleclues, which then repels the glycerin molecules. When you add the glycerin fist the molcules can group (mix) together then the glue coats all the ingrediants and doesn't turn to slop.
That's awesome. Will give it a try and buy the book :) Thanks for sharing!
Hope you enjoy it!
Thank you for this. Nice to have a technique that does not requires heated metal plates or other things not really available to casual woodworker.
thanks, yeah heated forms are not within reach for me. This method allows me and my students to veneer just about any form. You can check out my courses here imaginewoodworking.com/pages/courses-and-demonstrations
Enjoy!
Thank you. I'm a beginner am just getting into this. Very informative here. Would be interesting to weight the batch before and after to see what you added to the wood in terms of weight.
great idea and I will do that next round, thanks
Whew- just came across your videos after gluing up some small table tops. Had some very small chipping on birdseye maple veneer. My veneer was dry and a pain to be so careful with. It turned out ok for others but want better quality. Your video here is very very helpful and I will start conditioning on my next projects in a few days. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos.
this makes working with any veneer a real joy. Glad to share. Check out my longer veneering videos here imaginewoodworking.com/
Oh yeah, I've written a book too. Advanced Veneering and alternative techniques.
@@imaginegrove Saw a clip by James Hamilton (Stumpy Nubs) about your book- bought it and it’s on the way. 😃
I was just with Jim at AWFS in Vegas. Great guy. Here is the video a shot with him at Havery Tool th-cam.com/video/R-Z3hZT-iVI/w-d-xo.html thanks for your support @@mikeminnick9712
Darn- I ordered through Amazon yesterday and see I can get a signed copy on your website….. hmmm. Maybe will return it and order thru your website.
happy to sign one for you. thanks @@mikeminnick9712
Absolutely love and appreciate your videos and the knowledge you convey. I have one question on the veneer conditioner -- do you find that the glue left behind affects the ability of a stain or finish to evenly penetrate, or does the remaining glue sort of act as a sanding sealer, or something else? Thanks in advance -- keep it up.
It is diluted and acts as a sealing sealer, stain conditioner. I haven't had a problems - 30 years using this method now.
Great video very helpful information thank you
Glad it helped. I've got longer videos about veneering including compound veneering here imaginewoodworking.com/
Thank you 😊
you are welcome, I hope it is helpful.
Hi. Nice informative video. Just what I need, as getting commercial veneer conditioners to Canada is very expensive (shipping / customs in particular) and not quick. You at one point said “Go Bills”. Yes, go Bills.
Glad it was helpful!
I agree this is an awesome video and ill be buying the book .. im only commenting because I too was about to buy conditioner from a supply house .. 10 dollar 8oz bottle 15 dollar shipping but they will reimburse you the difference between actual shipping costs and the posted cost .... but in store credit .. so Im so Glad I found this video
@@williamdavis8910 Hi. What supply house? Are you also in Canada?
@@michaelkowalenko492 no im in the usa it was veneer supplies .. , he has really nice veneer and the site is super informative but was really put off by the shipping policy "store credit??!!" Im .. "he does say on his tips page that this very process in the video will make the veneer sticky and create finishing problems , thats why he recommends super soft 2 . I compared the safety data sheet with that and three other veneer conditioners , they are all Diethylene glycol monoethyl ether ... im definitely buying this book and going to make a batch of the conditioner
One other thing .. i was going to but a bittle of heat loc glue , ive used it in the last and it works great , however There is a video on youtube called "building a 13,000 turntable " the guy uses titebond to heat set his veneer .... apparently you can use yellow glue and and iron to set veneer .. its a must watch
Thank you!!
you are welcome. I hope this helps
Thanks for that.
You're welcome
I love your videos but have a couple of questions about something that I didn't see mentioned. After going thru the flattening process with your recipe, 1) Can the flattened dried veneer be laid down using a urea based glue or will that cause compatibility issues?, and 2) after pressing and scraping, sanding, etc what does the dried sizing cause finish issues? Types of finishes that you have used successfully afterwards? Thank you in advance for guidance and please keep making content as time permits.
yes, you can use urea glue, and I haven't had any problems with the color of the veneer or finish. I typically use lacquer or conversion varnish. A number of my students use shellac and oil. No complaints from them either.
@@imaginegrove Thank you so much! Now to finish reading both of your books!
Great Video!!! Thank you.
What does the glue do for the veneer?
helps plasticize the fibers
Would you recommend it for 2 ply veneer? Thank you for the video!
no, never tried is as I suspect the solvents will discover the lamination. Give it is try and let me know
Doppelgänger alert! Tom Waits
Thank you for sharing this video, I hope to find time to take one of your classes someday. I'm having trouble finding glycerin locally, where do you get yours? Is Vegetable Glycerin what you use or is there a different kind?
I use Animed Glycerin, not sure about vegetable.
In a pinch I get mine from Rite Aid www.riteaid.com/shop/rite-aid-glycerin-usp-skin-protectant-6-oz-177-ml-0306447 but try a farm a feed store for gallon units for about $40 www.countrymax.com/animed-glycerine-gallon/
Can you do this to wavy veneer that is already glued down to a substrate?
yes and no, but adding the conditioner you will be introducing more moisture making the veneer expand, creating more or large wrinkles. With that said, IF, the veneer is very dry and brittle, spraying some one with help you clamp or iron it back down. This of course depends on the type of glue was used.
Hope this helps.
@@imaginegrove How about a veneer glued to a 100 year old piece of furniture? I have this Birdseye maple tall dresser that I'm trying to fix its top swollen up veneer, and it's very dry. I will break it immediately if I try to push it flat...
Will your formula fix it?🙏
@@angiem215 with an old piece the glue holding the veneer will be hide glue, , heat and moisture will release the bond. (and stress in the wood will too - hence the wrinkles) I'd spray the wrinkled area and let it soak in, then use an iron to heat the surface & wood to slowly press is back in place. then when removing the heat, keep pressing with a flat board for the glue to re-solidify and achier to the core. Testing a small area is always a good idea. Lastly, heat alone may work
@@imaginegrove Thank youuuu💖
Thanks for the video, may I ask if you add PVA glue in the mixture, will the veneer take wood stains?
Yes, absolutely
I understand the glycerine has a softening effect, but what is the function of glue and solvents like alcohol and acetone?
The PVA glue is a plasticizer and also helps keep the veneer flat. the alcohol and acetone are wetting and drying agents.
Apologies if this has been asked elsewhere, but what kind of alcohol are you using here? Denatured I assume?
yes, DNA 70% or above
2 questions-
1) Is this applicable to paper backed veneers?, and
B) does this plasticization inhibit the absorption of stain at all?
Thanks-
Only apply it to raw veneer. I never use paper backed, and suspect it would release the paper, if not the seams too. Effect stain slightly, but is consistent. (I don't stain much either) Hope this helps. Always test first. Good luck
Thanks, Scott. Always enjoy your videos. Plus, your hair ROCKS!!
Hi. What is the role of the pva glue?
it is a plasticizer and also helps keep the veneer flat when storing.
@@imaginegrove Ok. thank you :)
I’ve been using a commercial softener (super soft 2) on raw mappa Burl veneer. It’s so wavy I have to apply softener then I put in the bag on top of paper and hand massage it flat, applying the vacuum in stages as I massage out the wrinkles. Can’t stack it in the press the first go round or it will fold over on itself. After first pressing I put paper both sides and swap for dry paper every few hours. After it’s flat and fairly dry I stack it with screen and paper. As soon as I take it out to work it starts getting wavy again. Do you think the glue in your mix would help it stay flat when it’s in open air?
most definitely yes, still keep it stored between some plywood or melamine. good luck. Please keep me posted
@@imaginegrove I can’t find the titebond white glue locally, will another white pva work? I can get titebond all purpose white seems similar with half the VOC
@@getdirecti0ns yellow will work - titebond original
You could say all this in less than 5minutes. Sorry too much explanation. Boring.
Perhaps, but this will stick in the mind better, the little tips are helpful, watching someone do the activity is in itself quite educational and valuable to beginner/amateur.
But yes it is long.