More Veneering Tips!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- This video will show you some tips about the wonderful world of veneering! Some are well known, maybe even industry standard...and some are unique that I've created over the last few decades. I cut perfect, glue-ready seams straight off a table saw using a unique sled that works amazingly well! I show that veneer sled in another TH-cam video: • Perfect Veneer Seams!
At 16:18, I talk about veneer softner and I have a TH-cam video on that process: • Wavy Veneer...Tame it!
I may earn commissions for purchases made through the Amazon links:
My choice of epoxy: amzn.to/3DFaBLl
My new eBooks, "Tricks of the Trade" can be found here:
Volume I: ramonvaldezfinefurniture.com/...
Volume II: ramonvaldezfinefurniture.com/...
My website with plans, marquetry tutorials, Docks for the Festool Domino machines...both the DF500 and the XL700 and more: ramonvaldezfinefurniture.com/
My Instagram page...where I share loads of woodworking tips: / ramonartful
So much info packed into 23 min. I'm a new subscriber, Have watched several of your info packed vids, The time spent watching your vids, FAR surpasses any other vids for acquiring new techniques in such a short amount of time. really dig the format !! Thank You Ramon Valdez !
Love the velco Sanding block !!!
Wow…what a “review”! Thanks a ton for the good words and feedback!
I second that comment! Such amazing work and instruction. Thank you Ramon!
Great video as always!
Thank you tons!
As a newbie to veneering, this video rocks. I will watch it again for better retention.
Hey…great to hear! Thanks a lot
For sure 1 of the best veneering videos I’ve watched. I’m a beginner but this is very informative.
Hey David…thanks a ton for the good words. I love sharing what works for me!
Some great stuff in there Ramon! Not only are you a master craftsman but also a gifted teacher. These videos must take up a lot of time to put together. I love your style.
Thanks for posting.
Thank you tons. They are time consuming! But I love to teach, share and show what works for me. Do me a favor and share my channel. 🙏🏼
Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to make this video! A lot of practical information here!
That’s always good to hear! Many thanks
Excellent video. I appreciate that there are many right ways to do things (and I veneer slightly differently) but this video is a masterclass for any newcomers to veneering.
Here in the UK, one big furniture retailer has, as its main slogan “no veneer in here”. That is apparently supposed to be a key selling point. Well, veneering is actually better than solid wood in many cases. It’s main advantage to me is that I can produce highly figured pieces without using a solid slab of highly figured timber; it’s good for cost but it’s also good for making the most out of those precious timbers.
I must admit to generally using veneer tape - that’s just how I was shown how to do it years ago. I also tend to use Titebond Extend because of the longer open time - I absolutely hate rushing the process of putting into the bag, making sure it all looks good - and leave over night to cure.
I haven’t yet got to your other videos on veneers (don’t know why they didn’t pop up as I subscribed a long time ago) but making your own veneer is not hard. I use a fresh blade (wide as you can go and as finer teeth as possible) on my bandsaw, check the tuning of the rollers and attach an tall auxiliary fence plus feather boards. I don’t try this on boards taller than, say, 200mm if a really hardwood but go upto, 250mm for a softer hardwood. Go slowly and you can produce really good veneer. The taller the board, the thicker I make my veneer - 2mm?. For narrower boards, less than 1mm is possible. If I need to, I run the thicker veneer through my sander.
I think you said that you use the table saw to edge the veneers? I would have hesitated to do that but am going to try it on some cheaper veneer. I overlap the 2 edges to be matched and fox down with some masking tape. You could actually cut a wavy line but I use a rule and cut through both edges at once. The advantage of this method is that, if your knife is not held at exactly 90 degrees, it doesn’t matter and it’s even better if it’s not because you have matched the angle of cut on the top veneer to the angle of cut on the bottom veneer. Cutting at, say, 60 degrees, does give a wider surface area for the adhesive.
As I said, lots of right ways to do this. As with most things, it’s practice and you will evolve the method that most suits you
I completely agree with you! I love veneer and the vast possibilities one can achieve with it. I just ordered 200 square feet of figured Cherry. That would have been expensive out of solid wood and time consuming to slice into veneer myself. Although my bandsaw is set up accurate enough to get consistent veneers, even with wide boards like about 254mm. I prefer about 1/16” or 1.5mm. Pieces built with veneer have an overall matching color and grain tone, cohesive and as you mentioned, stable! Plus, I feel better about leaving a smaller footprint in the forrest!
I too learned with veneer tape, but I prefer blue tape for it’s ease of use. And I know for a fact that glue won’t always migrate into a seam, so I glue joints or seams now.
My veneer sled works incredible well, super accurate, glue ready seams straight away. I’ve used the knife method before but have much better luck with a table saw. Especially with fine points on a starburst pattern, for instiance.
Thanks a ton for the input, feedback and good words. I appreciate it!
It is wonderful that you share your wisdom and craftsmanship with the rest of us. Imam learning so much. Thank you.
That’s great to hear that you like the vids. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks
Lots of awesome tips, thanks for sharing!
That’s awesome to hear! Thanks for checking it out 🙏🏼
Thanks for all your tips...awesome!
Thank you…I appreciate the feedback!
All awesome tips! Thank you!
Thank you!
Again, fabulous vid, thank you.
I appreciate it🙏🏼
I loved this, thank you
Great to hear! Thank you for watching
Your videos always impress. Amazing knowledge and workmanship are on another level. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you…I certainly appreciate the good words! 🙏🏼
Excellent video
Great to hear…thanks for checking it out!
You've produced another winner, Ramon. There are so many tips in this one and I'll be working on a veneered project soon so I will try out some of your ideas. I have been using veneer tape with good success but I like your idea of gluing the veneer pieces together before I apply it to the substrate. I also need to look for some freezer paper and I may try your little windows with the tape as well. Thanks my friend.
Glad to hear that! I had good success with veneer tape but I thought blue tape was easier to apply…and remove. (Unless I had a high quality wide belt sander) And blue tape is probably easier to use whenst gluing seams. I know traditionally they weren’t glued, but it’s always felt right to me 😬
Just stumbled across your channel - absolutely fantastic! Great content and production - you are a gifted teacher. I'm now hooked on learning from your experience. Thank you for the inspiration.
I really appreciate this feedback…thanks a ton! More to come.
Awesome channel man, keep it up!
Thank you tons!
Next veneer tip video please add how to store larger pieces of veneer. I imagine I need to roll them up since that is how they were shipped to me, and I need to roll them back up without cracking! 😅
In one of my videos I share how I tape the ends. Just fold tape over the edge at each end, let a bit of tape go past, to stick to itself. That’s pretty standard. I then roll mine and wrap em with stretch film. They go in boxes or I hang them on brackets way above my shop. Much thanks.
Man, this one was full of good info!
So good to hear that feedback! Thanks a lot 🙏🏼
Great Video! Excellent techniques, you have a very inventive mind. I have been veneering for years using the "normal" techniques that you find in all the books and, since adopting you techniques for trimming and taping, I have the best seams ever, pretty well much invisible, with no worries of errors or seams opening up. And the techniques have reduced the amount of time I spend trimming and taping! In addition to the taping the rest of the video is very informative even parts that you don't speak about. I am going to put snaps on my bag. That will help when I get those large projects where the glue up can get a bit frantic due to the open time limit of glue. Thanks!
Awww…this is fantastic to hear! I love sharing/showing what works for me! Thanks a ton for the feedback 🙏🏼
I would have give you 2thumbs up if I could😎. Great presentation. I learned a lot on this video. Thanks much😍
A lot of small learning points that I hope will smooth my own project journeys Ramon. THanks for sharing. Your videos are a testament to the quality of content mattering more than facy production value and big intro's etc. A shame the youtube Algorithm is designed to reward clickbait and foolishness (Highly suggest you watcb Stumpy Nubs videos on why he changed his content, removed some and produces titles and thumbnails he thinks are a waste for the interests of viewers... was a real eye opener to me).
Thanks a ton for the feedback! I simply love sharing and showing what works for me! I’ll check out his vids. Much thanks.
Another great video thanks. I’m about to dive into veneering. The scraper you used it looks familiar who makes them
I watched a bit of the video and I believe I was using a Stew Mac scraper. There completely rigid , not flexible at all. They’re fun to use. I have a YT video on sharpening them. Thanks
it's always good to see different ways to get to the same place I don't use blue tape, I use veneer tape, I also don't glue the seams, the glue gets up in them when I am pressing. Most of my panels I use unibond, is it better? I don't know, I've got veneered panels from 25 Years ago with yellow glue that have no issues.
I completely agree! I love seeing different methods and seeing that they work great as well! I find blue tape a bit easier. And I just feel better when gluing the seams. Especially with thicker, shop sawn veneers. And I like Unibond as well.
Yep, lots of ways to do things! Thanks a ton for the input!
@@ramonartful I've always had issues with pulling the blue tape off and it takes a lot of time, and I have always worried about the glue and having it dry, and not press flat, I have a timesaver, that I run the panels through, it takes the tape right off and gets the veneer flat, I don't press on plywood unless its a bent panel I use mdf only, and I run it through the timesaver to make sure it doesn't have any lumps when I press. if I was using thick veneer, I would glue it, I also get all my veneer from certainly, its about an hour from here, most of the time I drive up there and pick it up, I am going to go up there later this week in fact, I'm doing a chest of drawers this week not even sure what its going to be made out of, I am sure they will have something amazing. they always do.
Great stuff as usual Ramon. Where’d you get the roller and the tiny glue bottles?
Also, if somebody wanted to get started in the world of vac bagging, where to start for equipment and supplies? I am kinda missing the key piece… big shop and large flat surfaces 😀
The glue bottles I get from McMaster Carr. It’s the glue bottle that I include in my “Marquetry Class 101” kit off of my website. So, I buy them in bulk. The glue rollers I purchase either from Lowes or Home Depot. Ask for specialty rollers for adhesives. They’re fantastic!
And you’re right…one does need a bit is space. I keep my vacuum pump and bag set up on a movable cabinet. When not in use, I made a top out of plywood that covers and protects the bag. Then I can use the surface for layout, or assembly. But usually, it’s used for shipping, assembling boxes, and adding labels. It’s not ideal, but it works. I could use a bigger shop!
A great resource for vacuum bagging is from Vacupress…Darrell Keil has a lot of info there. He offers different price points, bag sizes and types, etc. I use the Professional model (6cfm)and I have two different bags. My original polyurethane bag (very tough but more expensive) that can handle 4x8’ and a vinyl bag (still good puncture resistant and cheaper) that can handle 65” square.
www.vacupress.com/
The glue bottles I get from McMaster Carr. It’s the glue bottle that I include in my “Marquetry Class 101” kit off of my website. So, I buy them in bulk. The glue rollers I purchase either from Lowes or Home Depot. Ask for specialty rollers for adhesives. They’re fantastic!
And you’re right…one does need a bit is space. I keep my vacuum pump and bag set up on a movable cabinet. When not in use, I made a top out of plywood that covers and protects the bag. Then I can use the surface for layout, or assembly. But usually, it’s used for shipping, assembling boxes, and adding labels. It’s not ideal, but it works. I could use a bigger shop!
A great resource for vacuum bagging is from Vacupress…Darrell Keil has a lot of info there. He offers different price points, bag sizes and types, etc. I use the Professional model (6cfm)and I have two different bags. My original polyurethane bag (very tough but more expensive) that can handle 4x8’ and a vinyl bag (still good puncture resistant and cheaper) that can handle 65” square.
www.vacupress.com/
Nice Work! What is your opinion of self adhesive veneer? I'm a rookie and I used it once. It seemed to work great. I used my wives iron on top to get the adhesive to stick even better, sort of getting it to soak into the substrate, (I think anyway). My only concern is if 10 years from now the adhesive fails and the veneer starts coming loose.
I think that it’s…mmm, okay. But I can’t bring myself to trust it for anything that I’d make. I’ve used it before to upgrade old kitchen cabinets. New doors and cabinet fronts/sides…whole new look.
Adhesive for veneer is a huge topic of debate. Most (including myself) believe that the glue line for veneer should be rigid, certainly not a characteristic of self adhesive types. If it’s small work like a box, I’ll use PVA (like Titebond, glue lines that don’t cure hard/rigid) but for bigger projects (more prone to movement) I use rigid glues. Dap brand plastic resin, Unibond, BetterBond, UltraCat, epoxy and others. These glues dry hard and won’t allow any movement of veneer which is usually the weak link that can lead to failure.
Your concern is definitely warranted. One thing that helps with PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) is the amount of pressure that can be applied. The more the better. Heat probably does help to apply…but just think of an item near a window that gets really hot. It could delaminate.
So, I avoid PSA veneers and paperbacked for higher quality projects. Raw veneer (commercially available) and shop sawn, adhered with a rigid type of glue are my “go to”. Hope that helps. Much thanks.
Thanks for another great video! Is it necessary to veneer the backside of an MDF core panel if it will be glued to plywood?
Can you tell me more about your goal? Is it an MDF panel with another plywood panel for a thicker overall panel?
Typically, whatever you do to one side of a substrate, you do to the other side. You already know that, yeah? This creates a balanced panel. It’s a little unknown how two different substrates will react with each other when placed back to back. (Or face to face) I know it adds more time, but to be safe…veneer on both sides of each substrate is ideal. You may get away with it if you use a rigid glue rather than a PVA. Thanks
@@ramonartful It's a large piece for a local church where the architect speced plywood under the veneered panel. So to save time I was just going to PVA glue the 3/4" mdf to the 3/4" ply. I figure that will seal the backside well enough to prevent any warp. Am using Unibond 800 on the veneer itself. I can veneer backside if needed. Like I said, just trying to save some time.
what kind of glue is best for repair cracks in leafs? BTW this video open my eyes for new oportunites in woodworking :)
Leaves as in a table extension? Curious as to why it cracked in the first place. But in general…just make sure the crack is clean…no dust, use compressed air to clean. Have some clamps ready (make sure the clamps can move the crack closed, it should not take much pressure. If it does, you have different issues) Use floss, folded clear tape or similar to spread the glue. Or use a shop vac to “pull” the glue into the crack. Add soft cauls to prevent denting of the table edges…clamp closed. Wipe excess with a slightly dampened cloth. Once dry, lightly sand with very fine sandpaper…400 or higher. Just to ease & blend the edges of the cracks. Hope that helps.
Where do you source bundles of veneer like that? I've not been able to find these entire flitches of veneer from logs.
Certainly Wood has flitches. Just ask when ordering. There are many others but these guys are simply fantastic and super helpful.
Thanks for the vids, could HDPE or UHMW plastic sheets be used to sandwich the layers?
Yes! You have access to that amazing material? I have small pieces of it that I routinely use for clamping cauls. Even bedded right into glue…it never bonds. Thanks
Yes! You have access to that amazing material? I have small pieces of it that I routinely use for clamping cauls. Even bedded right into glue…it never bonds. Thanks
@@ramonartful I found some colored 3/4'' UHMW at a small plastic maker locally. They usually have some large scraps from custom orders that only needed a small piece. I am going to make an MFT top with it. So I will use what your vid shows and make up some cauls. Thanks for all the info.
I have a 3/4" laminate shelf board with grooves as a bottom platen, but it tends to bow under vacuum pressure and of course translates into my veneer panel. It looks like you don't have that problem, do you have any tips on avoiding this problem? I think a matching top platen or clamping the bottom platen down is my only choice, yes?
Hmm. You mean the vacuum bag bowed the bottom platen upwards?
@@ramonartful Yep. Happened when I put a small top platen in the middle of the board like you did to add extra pressure to the center
@@MorZaiderman That is strange. I don't understand why it's bowing the bottom platen upwards. Darryl Keil with Vacupress would be a good guy to ask.
***please help***. I am doing a kitchen remodel and do not want to mess up as the cabinets are very expensive. I want to use some veneer and have a question.
I have cabinet skins to make the 96" pantry cabinet sides flush with the front. However, the skins are not sufficiently thick to make it flush. I would like to buy a piece of inexpensive veneer and put it between the skin and the cabinet side so it will be closer to being flush. I plan to use 3M High Strength 90 between the layers. Do you think this would work? Should I finish the veneer or leave it unfinished. If finishing it, what type of finish would you recommend? Oil based or water based?
Do you think think 3M 90 is a good product to use with the veneer? Thanks for any advice.
It’s quite risky to add veneer between the cabinet side and cabinet skin. Too many layers invites delaminating. Spray 90 is ok but it does not have enough “glue solids” for long term adhesion. The way it’s applied makes a huge difference as well. It needs plenty of glue on both surfaces and some time for it to dry slightly. It’s best when used for small pieces, like edging. If you use it, make certain you have a good roller to apply as much pressure as possible for a good bond.
Face frames typically stick out past cabinet sides. If it’s more than you like, one could use a router and flush cut bit. The raw face frame would need finished and maybe stained first to match color.
I didn’t know what you meant about finishing the veneer, since you had said it would be under the cabinet skin. You probably meant finish the cabinet skin, yeah? Water based finish is easiest but you must be careful, the added moisture can cause it to expand, creating bubbles or loose areas.
Maybe you can leave me a way to contact you and we can figure this out. This issue isn’t too tricky, but one does need some tools & skills to pull it off successfully.
@@ramonartful Thank so much for the reply. The reason I asked about finishing the veneer is because I thought that if left raw, something might happen like absorbing moisture from the environment? If put in between the cabinet and the skin, it would not be seen, so no need to finish it from an aesthetic point. I am more worried about what might happen to the wood if it is not finished. As you pointed out, it could present a problem having multiple layers if the wood absorbs water and then gets wavy. I do not know if that might happen and thought you might know since you work with veneer a lot.
I really do need to use the 3M 90 adhesive for the 96" skin because I need to be able to reposition it for this large cabinet. However, perhaps I could use a different type of adhesive for the veneer? I could work with smaller pieces of veneer under the skin and those are easier to place correctly than a 24" x 96" skin. Do you think this might work? If so, what adhesive do you think would work best to adhere the veneer to the cabinet?
The reason I want to make it more flush is because the side of the cabinet faces the family room and it is ugly with just a 96" tall flat surface. I will be adding fake doors to the side of the cabinet over the flush finish. When I add the doors I think it might look bad to have that face frame sticking out and not have the doors lay flat across the entire surface.
I have both a small roller and a larger roller to apply the veneer. I got some 5lb weights (the circles from dumbells) and I was planning to lay 2x4s along the length of the cabinet with cross boards over the top and put the weight on the cross boards. Of note is that when I did this before (see below), it was very difficult to get the veneer positioned correctly and I did end up peeling it back an repositioning it in different parts of the 96" cabinet. It is such a large, long cabinet; it was difficult to get the veneer in the right place over the length of the entire cabinet.
The cabinets are white Kraftmaid cabinets. From what I have read, others say they can not get an exact paint factory finish match when they do repairs, regardless of what paint and finish is used. So, I am leaning away from trimming the face frame. Mfg recommends white paint topped with spray semi-gloss poly. I might experiment with that on a scrap board and see how good the results are.
BTW- I did this before about 8 years ago because our oak cabinets were two shades darker than when we got them and the cabinet sides were paper. I bought oak veneer with 3M backing from Rockler Woodworking, finished them to match, cut and installed them. It looked really nice. Everything held up well except the cabinets to the right and left of the stove appear to have soaked up some moisture (steam, heat, oil in the air- not sure?) from cooking and are wavy and do not appear to be adhering well. The rest of the kitchen looks good though.
@@JLCorpus1 There wouldn't be an issue with the veneer between the cabinet and skin absorbing moisture. ( I think I understood you correctly). The main issue is adhesion. 3M 90 is okay, but I've always used industrial contact cement...should be available from a cabinet or countertop shop. The aerosol contact cement like 3M simply does not have enough glue solids to be long term effective. Similar to lacquer in a spray can...it's too thin and takes many coats to build. If you apply enough...hard to tell someone how much in text. Plus the dry time is important for it to tack up properly. Laying large pieces of veneer can be made easier by using clean sticks across the surface...once the glue is ready, lay the veneer onto the sticks. Position the veneer, then begin removing the middle sticks one at at time whilst pressing the veneer working outwards to avoid bubbles. If I understood you correctly, the faux doors you apply once the skin is on will certainly help hold everything in place.
I don't see new replies unless I check each video, so it may take me a few days to get back to you. Hope this helps
85 cent roller??? is this guy Canadian....??? hahah whats with the obsession over a silly roller? TOSS IT, GET A NEW ONE. HELLO?
No obsession here…those roller cartridges are $5.87 each. Using it over & over makes sense to me.