Me too. But everyone thinks I’m divorced. They don’t ask and I don’t tell:) But once I just went to church and quit dating women in the church, my problems with women simply disappeared:)
@@mitchsalawine5420 Amen! Women dont want husbands, they want male servants! men cant be called to be leaders & servants of the same person! i know this sounds all churchy to say, but thats not how this REALLY works! We NEED all male churches. Will our atheist masters let us have them?
I remember being a kid and watching all the members of my church during worship, raising their hands and singing and couldn't help thinking how stupid this was, I couldn't make myself go back as an adult
For many men, it breaks down to many categories. One, they do not need another job. Most churches only tap into their men for task and labor. Secondly, most men's groups or study's are "you suck 101". They tell men that they suck as fathers, being a husband, your are addicted to porn, you don't have work-life balance. Who wants to show up for that constantly? Thirdly, it is missing where men are in life and there is very little discipleship. This requires more than go read a book. For those of us who have been in the military, you were constantly training and teaching. I think that many churches tend to lack in giving directives or setting reasonable goals. In many ways it is like being in an ADHD circus. Those are some common points that I have seen.
Best church approaches I've seen: a morning bible reading time once a week. Before heading off to work about a dozen men and the rector gathered to simply read the bible together. Another: once a quarter, a men's get together: dinner, chat, a Christian guest speaker on a manly topic. Men just need men time with other men, as the starting point, with none of the deprecatory distractions.
If a preacher tells you, you suck as a husband and as a father and you don't, what are you worried about? Men don't go to church because they don't want to hear the confrontational truth contained in scripture, period!
We need a divorced men's support group. I have seen a ton of divorced men who need the love of God,especially as they have went through an experience which destroys men. These are men who need some comforting,but also,discipleship and guidance,to help them get through this experience
A big part of the problem here is that countless pastors are afraid to confront the women in their churches, especially when one woman or a woman and her group of followers wants to run the church. Evangelical women over the past several decades, have gotten a free pass in churches. They're not called in for church discipline. If they are running down their husbands or trying to steal their husband's God-given headship they are never confronted and discipline.
Amen! we had problems with several struggling marriages in a small evangelical church I attended, including my own. my now ex-wife & i went to the Pastor & his wife, separately for counseling. I got the 'shape up or else' she got the sympathy and the 'be patient, he will change' spiel. women are usually treated with kid gloves.
Most men don't go to church because they seem to feel ,men from the pulpit are going to preach to them how they need to step up to the plate, and be a man to their family, in their own home, and what the Bible said. That's how I see it. The MAIN reason on point for most is , NO MAN, wants to hear another men tell him how to run his house ,other than Jesus HIMSELF.
actually the bible says that women are to obey their husband oh my gosh this is hate speech we need to call the govt and file complaint. why i dont step on a church. because women are cute little innocent bunnies and men are a bunch of stupid toxic masculine football watching video game playing idiots who cant step up. the problem is this is the type of men women dated in past had kids with in past the hot rich bad boy. now they want to be virgins and want men to re-marry them give them money for their kids so they can go shopping again 3 times a week while the pastor will always defend them and women make up stories and lie like a car salesperson sell-ling the deal with the pastor while noone is looking and noticing. people are too busy singing songs and kissing gods butt on Sunday for 2 hours.
I think the better tree to bark up on would be the pastor tends to overly correct the men so much, and generally gives the women a free pass. Other than that, if the Pastor is simply quoting scripture, and he's not doing so in a manner drawing attention to himself, then it's not the pastor who is at fault, it's the reflection in the mirror who is at fault.
@@Ndondiafrika254 what wrong with being lectured? What's wrong with correction? It seems like men have an issue with it because yall believe correction should only be applied to women and not to men.
I commented on this two years ago; when I worked for a church (as admin guy). What I now observe is that the NT church met to edify one another; where all contribute to the assembly (in an orderly manner). 1 Cor 11-14 sets this all out. We meet to learn and teach, not to spectate at a concert! We engage each other's lives. We learn how to talk the gospel to others, to encourage each other. Not just to be the stage hand at a womens' club.
Men are held to traditional roles and values. The Church doesn't know what to do with modern women's roles, so there's no BALANCED accountability. The Church is also struggling to balance a merciful/ graceful God and a feared and just God. Although He's our heavenly father, God is a lot less warm and fuzzy than many think He is. ... also, y'all need to pay the light bill. 💡
I'm a long time church musician. The music has gotten soft, flabby, repetitive and lovey dovey. Also older musicians have been phased out for the skinny jean knit beanie crowd.
Dead right. Some songs I don't bother to even sing their words are so soppy, its blasphemous. Our Lord is not our 'crush'. He is our King, Creator and Leader.
Church musician here, and I totally agree!! And the women don’t really care what men think of praise & worship. They selfishly sing their feminine worship songs, along with romantic pink lighting that sets the mood, and if you don’t like it, then your “relationship” with God is questioned. It’s easy to see why men would rather play video games and watch football over going to church.
@@ALTheFreeMan good observation however, the God given role that men were given by Almighty God, the God of the Bible, hello, must be taken. I refuse to give my spiritual covering role to my wife that role was entrusted to me for His glory!!! Men we can't quit and play video games...
@@pastormike396LMAO Thats so inspiring Pastor Pantywaist! You should speak publically for a living! Your wife will TAKE it from you, and your money to boot! Big Brother is their god now; they listen to him because he gives her EVERYTHING her heart desires, and never says no to her.
When I first stumbled across this conversation I was surprised at the fact that it was 7 years old. And right on target. These guys are saying things I know to be true. I grew up in Southern California where there was a good sampling of high school students. It was the crystal cathedral. I really didn’t like the Sunday service cuz it just wasn’t my thing. But either Friday or Saturday night there was pizza and ice cream. And during the football games there were video recordings which were randomly on the walls. It was packed. Nowadays (I live in indianapolis now) and once you’re past high school you are on your own. Hint: church is probably a thing of the past. Not a lot of traffic jams. A whole generation has seemingly been lost
1. We are the Church. The institutions are not. 2. Start meeting together in each other’s homes. 3. Stop trying to get 501c3’s and start doing what the first church did with their money: make sure no one in the congregation has any need. 4. Stop acting like the lifeblood of Christianity is MONEY. It’s the Holy Spirit. 5. Start looking to each other as family instead of “members.” You will be spending the rest of eternity together, so act like it. Men aren’t leaving the Church, they’re leaving religious institutions. There’s no need to go get them and bring them back, they’re already the Church.
“The Jesus is my boyfriend gospel” has to stop for sure. One time me and my wife attempted to join a house church and in one occasion a sister in Christ had a problem with the idea of a men always being the head of the church. All men had to pretend like the Bible doesn’t already address that 😑 annoying
The music thing is a big reason why I went back to a traditional Catholic Mass. If I see electric guitars and drums, I'm outta there. I don't like singing traditional hymns, much less the love songs to Jesus that so many churches are into now. The best word to describe it for a man is "Cringe".
Yep, Paul tells us to sing to each other as teaching; any songs, however simple, have to have theological content. Days of Elijah at Camp Pendleton is how its done.
I'm Baptist Christian and I'm a musician I see it as a way to praise, and I enjoy it but I can understand why it's not as enjoyable and it can even be hated the choir of my church would almost never get along and still doesn't we would spend 3 to 4 hours and be barely able to sing two songs on Sunday drove me nuts I prefer to just play my instruments by myself and sing whatever song I please to praise God the BS in the church has gotten out of hand it's one of the reasons I don't like going other than the pondering BS that the pastors Beat Around and then the Brotherhood meetings that we have that really aren't Brotherhood it's just old men looking down on young men for not making the same mistakes that they're making right now which is retarded
I live in a small town qith really only one church. The " worshipteam" are all young ladies, the church board has 5 women and one man,and the pastor selected a young woman to be assistant pastor about a year ago. I rarely attend now.
Positively wonderful discussion. Clear, informative, but most of all, biblically sound. Good to know the issues surrounding our men are looked at again from a Biblical understanding. Bless you guys for standing up!
Agree but nothing wrong with a long sermon. Part of traditional protestant service. As long as its a biblical sermon, not "testimonies" or the like, motivation and financial stuff. And yes nothing worse than 45 minutes of contemporary pop concert
@@Dilley_G45 You know, most people can read the entire gospel of Mark within thirty minutes. If your sermon lasts longer than the entire gospel about Christ, you need to sit down and shut up.
@@artemmjoukov my Sermon? Lol do you tell your pastor to shut up? I am not a pastor btw. I'd rather have a long biblical sermon than long "motivational talk" or "testimonies" whilst modern churches do. Really no point going there unless you want a free coffee but I don't sit through 90 minutes of pop music and heresies for for free coffee
6 years later it’s worse, the guys are talking about mgtow. I’m fortunate to have found a reformed Presbyterian church that actually in the prayer asks wives to respect their husbands. It’s the first church I have ever felt there was something for men.
Yep. Murrow's book is now 16 years old, and the problem is still there. Personally, I haven't regularly attended "church" in years, and every time I visit one all I see are old people and single mothers. MGTOW is the only rational response. The truth is that the relationship between men and women is one of hierarchy. As long as we pretend it's one of complementarity, church will continue to bleed men.
@@theplasmacollider6431 LOTS of guys are talking about it! There are many, many Christians in the manosphere! they sense the rise of a matriarchy, where women are 1st class citizens but men are only 2nd class citizens. Leave your cozy bubble and look for it. it wont be hard to find!
The 4 s is what church always was....the difference is that contemporary churches have lukewarm message and bad music....go back to liturgical services....truth before emotions...hymns instead of contemporary music and its how it was and should be. Men don't stay home because we have to sing and sit still. We don't like standing to ambient sounds even while a "pastor" talks. We don't mind a long expository sermon and sound doctrine. We like a challenge. We like to have something worth defending.
This was an excellent video and very accurate from my experience also. I’m a musician on the worship team but fortunately we aren’t a bunch of touchy, feely wimps and simps. As a younger person I hated youth groups and lock ins because it was too geared towards emotions and females. I stopped going and would never recommend anyone go to these
No... I was never a knucklehead:) Inexperienced yes. Very mature for my age in certain areas. And immature in others, yes. But the big thing was Jesus. Coming to Him. With all of my faults, all of my sins. And realizing that I was a good man, as I am now. I’m just not sinless or faultless. And that’s why I need Him so much! I wish the church would just let me alone sometimes in pointing out, not my faults, but my potential faults. That is enough.
It is misleading to say men do not like going to church. It is based on the false premise that "going to church" is a legitimate phrase that describes a reality that can actually happen. We are part of the church. We are part of our marriage. We are part of our friendships. You can go meet with friends, but you cannot go to your friendship. You can go to lunch with your wife, but you cannot go to your marriage. You can attend believers' meetings, but you cannot go to church. Now, with that out of the way, the question needs to be recrafted like this: Why men hate going to feminized, religious social club meetings.
Great Interview - thanks. Its now 2023 and Im from a church ( a progressive pentecostal ) doing a good job at cutting out its men and Im gutted as I watch men falling off the wagon and giving up. So, I have a question. One of you mentioned Hillsong capturing the young men. Its now 2023 and I would say the Hillsong type of church only captures most of its men until they reach the responsibility years when being a dad and work and sport becomes more attractive. My question is, do you really think they have captured the men? I think not - they just distracted them. I am standing on the sideline watching 40-60 year old men leaving saying It no longer works for me. However just recently one of my friends upon leaving said to me "I dont really understand it - its just like Ive lost my awe of God" ... now I think that explains it.
@@Razaiel Thanks for the link, very interesting to see a big time pastor flip flop on so many issues & even no longer considers himself a Christian. A double minded man is unstable in ALL his ways. This guy is as double minded as they come!
@@TitusCastiglione1503 This sounds closer to it. But it was the craze at the time, and he got wealthy off of it! We have LOTS of snake-oil sales people in our churches, unfortunately!
These people get a lot of the problem but not enough. Read Dalrock, the pastors continually absolve women of all their sins and blame men for not leading well enough. You want a Church with men? 1- Demand that women cover their heads as they did for 2K years in Church in obedience to clear Scripture. No headcovering, shave your head and declare yourself rebellious. 2- Jettison anything by Beth Moore and other such heretics. Preach sermons from time to time that a rebellious woman is NOT the fault of someone else but of the woman herself. No, it is not the husband's fault if the wife is off the rails. 3- Esteem Truth above relationships. Not once did Christ set rules above people, not once. The woman caught in adultery is not even part of the Bible, it was put in there long after Nicea and is not in the earliest documents. Even if it were a true story, it does not mean Christ set aside any rules. The woman was supposed to be stoned together with the man and he was nowhere around. God made it clear that the male was to lead. That also means that the way of men, rules > relations, competition > cooperation and reality > hypocrisy is to rule.
I know in my heart that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ is his son and he is my Lord and Savior. I have read my bible back to front each year for at least 15 years, prayed over people, helped when needed, but when my ex wife left me for a married youth pastor, the church turned their back on me. They did nothing to help ease my pain. I can't go to a church in my area without her prints all over it due to her "ministries" or book signings ect ect. She can preach forgiveness but cannot treat me with respect. I thought I was the only one, then I discovered this content and judging from the comments, so many more of you are heartbroken. I am sick of hearing on how men need to man up, only to go home to a woman who stifles any form of manliness and leaves when you hold her accountable for her own sins. I am sick of women being treated like hero victims while I see them sleeping around with multiple men in the church. I have never seen a pastor call out the women of the church for dressing like pole dancers on the front row. I didn't leave the church, the church left me.
I wouldn't write the music men in church off just because they don't engage in physical activity. Instead, I think you should call the church out for catering to one group of men and neglecting the other.
I’ll say for single men like me never been married no kids it makes him like. What do I have too offer in their church building when majority of your sermons are geared to wife and kids sermons?
Where are the churches with so many single women? I have never seen one. Just saying. Been traveling a lot. Lived in different cities and countries and been to different churches. I don't see where there is a lack of single men
Honestly, as a manly man,, I get more from my daily walk and devotion with and to Jesus throughout the week than I do from attending church. I get more prepping for my men’s Bible study that I lead every Saturday morning. I get more out of my prayer time. Pretty much the only reason I go to church is to encourage other men and to show my face. I can’t be a leader and not attend my church. It just don’t look good. Honestly, I’d rather be at the gym or cutting the grass than be at church on Sunday morning.
You don't lead your Bible Study group, the Holy Spirit does. You serve it: convene it, facilitate it, ensure that every one can ask questions and offer views, which then get discussed in turn.
@ oh nay nay. I lead under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Every Saturday I begin the meeting with 1 Peter 4:11…..”whoever speaks. Let them speak as it were the very words of God.” Trust me, I’m very well aware of the fact that I’m a tool or vessel in HIS hands. However, I appreciate your intentions.
We had woman in the 80-90’s were dating Jesus I had a gal in the early 1990’s came to my house every Sunday after church for lunch after 6 months she would not return calls avoided me at church she and paster falsely accused me of all kinds of stuff they called me fat ect few months latter she Marie’s another man who was 4” shorter and 50 lbs heaven than me found out latter he was making 150 k a year it was about money
What's the point, if you're a single average bro you'll never meet your future wifey there, they all seem to want Mr Church Chad and his long guitar neck.
This is good stuff, but there's a lot of misconceptions about the Old Testament (Torah + Tanakh) vs New Testament. The Bible says God's word was/is perfect and the new covenant is God writing that very same word on our hearts. There was grace and mercy and love in the OT. There was a great emphasis on being circumcised IN YOUR HEART in the OT.
Great insights, but I have to laugh at the title-how many guys go to church with David Murrow, and why are there so many who don't like attending with him? 😉 In all seriousness, as I've seen as a lay minister it's hard enough to get the men to attend regularly, let alone look up from their phones. Keep the faith, help your fellow brothers feel welcome and needed, and trust in Him!
Possibly poor attendance by men is that our church assemblies do not reflect Pauls teaching about the 'one-another' program he sets out in 1 Cor 11-14.
8 years later and the only thing that has changed is churches are splitting because of various sicknesses. I have watched alot of videos on the subject and none of them identity the real reasons men dont attend church. Sad and pathetic
This is not a problem that began in the 19th century. It’s as old as Genesis 3:16, but it began to encroach seriously on the European Christian mindset about nine centuries ago. The courtly love associated with medieval chivalry had the effect of divinizing a knight’s mistress, so that earthly sexual urges were replaced with a pseudo-spiritual abasement and obedience to her wishes, transferring the worship of God to the worship of femininity, which was (and unfortunately still is) assumed to be more righteous than masculinity, thereby sanctifying acts of war. The troubadour poets of 11th-century France, inspired by Arabic sources, began the practice of celibate adultery and the love of women as an ennobling moral force. It’s no coincidence that Marian pilgrimages and French cathedrals dedicated to “Our Lady” began to explode in growth in the 12th century. The mystics Catherine of Siena in the 14th century, who claimed that Jesus gave his foreskin to her as a wedding ring, and Teresa of Ávila in the 15th century, used the concept of courtly love to express their devotion to Christ.[1. The English Order of the Garter and the Burgundian Order of the Golden Fleece were formed in the 14th and 15th centuries, respectively.] Even Francis of Assisi called himself “a knight for Lady Poverty.” As Christians mainstreamed this devious philosophy, it came to be seen as the means of transforming marriage into the perfection of love by spiritualizing it. In Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare shows how seeking “love” that is disconnected from family and familial obligations turns into a sociopathic horror that ends in death. In the prologue to Don Quixote, the stated purpose of the book is “to destroy the authority and influence that books of chivalry have in the world,” and in the text Don Quixote tells Sancho Panza, “Religión es la caballería” (“Chivalry is a religion”). Thus, the framework for feminism was erected. The path from there to here is fascinating to trace. It began with Christian men, superior over home, church, and state, seeking to baptize their efforts in allegedly unsullied womanhood, as though this was a blessing from God himself. Christians replaced procreation with romance as the template for marriage. A happy home became the evidence of a man’s faithful obedience to God, and an unhappy home became the evidence of his disobedience to God. God’s law was replaced with a woman’s feelings. It’s important to realize that women demanded social and political equality with men after it had long been established in many churches, contrary to what Christians had always believed, that women are the judges of their husbands, and society is obliged to accept their judgment. This was helped along by men’s natural desire to protect, defend, and support women, and due to their own ignorance, the Bible became less of a guide to them than consensus. Feminism infected the North during the 19th century and worked its way south. Today, distinct sexual roles are considered by the average urbanite to be as valid as a belief in alchemy. At the movies, leather-clad, cross-dressing women with perfect hair easily defeat seasoned warriors. We witness now the comedy of drag queens being banned from sodomite pride parades for fear of offending “transsexuals”! Soon, female scholarships and business subsidies will be treated as a binary assault on civil rights. Unfaithful churches have this foul wind in their sails and are fanatically equalizing sexual roles, having long since abdicated authority in the home and civil realm. Christian leaders patronize the masses, preaching that wives are moral barometers for their hapless husbands. The mania to ordain women is now matched only by that of inventing racial sins committed by departed white men and proudly and loudly repenting of them. The boundaries of race, nation, and sex are being obliterated in the name of “love,” defined not as our Christian ancestors defined love but as the Communist Party, Democratic National Committee, and Anti-Defamation League want it defined. And just as unrequited lust was considered ennobling by French medievals, “gay” Christians (but not pedophiles?) are honored members of godless churches today, so long as they don’t act upon their desires. And if they do, well, don’t-ask-don’t-tell. Chivalry subordinates marriage to romance by teaching that women are inherently moral and the arbiters of manners, and that the wife is superior to her husband. Chivalry requires that after a man pursues a woman[2. Yet the only two books of the Bible that are named after women, Ruth and Esther, are about women who pursued their husbands.] and she judges his merit as a husband, his virtue must continue to be judged by his wife’s emotional state after marriage. This leads to cuckoldry, frivorce, and a host of ills.
Mega churches are full and will not grow anymore than it is now. (Not with men) The current model of praise and worship is the problem. Bands, coffee, hands up high swinging. The message is sometimes good. But guys don't want to hold hands and put them up high for all to see. And this video was 8 years ago!!!
7:09 "when I was a kid, praise and worship was a couple of songs (...) and then we'd get back to the pizza" It sounds like what he wanted was a club and not religion.
This video is old but it’s still an interesting conversation. All this talk about “feminized” churches but I have yet to see a woman being the head pastor of a church. I have yet to see a trustee board with predominantly women, if there are women involved at all. Most of the executive decisions are made by men who lead churches, not their wives. This seems like an issue that MEN have with the MEN making the calls. I suggest you take it up with them. Bc at this point, it’s ridiculous complaining about church culture when you won’t even attend consistently Additionally, the main problem I’ve seen with men in ministry is arrogance. Every man thinks he’s the smartest and shouldn’t be told what to do, even by the pastor. He doesn’t want to be obedient and listen but expects to be listened to by every woman he encounters. These men are often rebellious, lack consistency and resist pastoral authority. They hate when their wives listen to another man (meaning, the PASTOR) simply bc it isn’t him. This is a problem when women are constantly told to be submissive just bc she’s a woman… So yeah. Men do leave the church bc they don’t want to submit to another man. They do it all the time at work but somehow at church, it’s different. A whole lot of male ego has ruined families in the church and caused some to leave the church, all bc the husband was upset he was being held accountable by another man. That’s something that should be dealt with. Sure churches have been feminized but it’s mainly bc the men left. Abdicated responsibility, hated being obedient and held accountable. Now the only congregants are women willing to do unpaid work at the church for the pastor.
You’re speaking of men in leadership positions within the church, which I agree is still male dominated for the most part. But, I think they’re referencing the congregational experience in general. A lot of men feel left out of the church experience, especially if they’re not in leadership or musically inclined. The songs, the sermons, the pink lights, it’s just not comfortable for the average “guy’s guy”. I’m a church musician, so, every Sunday I see men struggling to sing these romantic songs that easily garner an emotional response from women. It’s just what the church has become these days, and most women seem to have no problem with it unless they’re single and looking for a man, lol.
@@ALTheFreeMan That’s fair. My church worship songs are the opposite. Most of the songs are mainly about God in battle or fighting for us. I will say the heavy emphasis in worship is true for Christian culture across the board, even my church. We have at least an hour just for the sermon, but 30 minutes of praise/worship music can be a lot I guess I think this is a chicken or the egg conversation. Is the church experience curated for women because there’s mainly women who prioritize attendance? Or did the church experience change first, and that’s what pushed men away? My opinion is that women force their husbands to go consistently. If that ever stopped (which it did) then men wouldn’t go to church. Men have to decide to go consistently to enforce the changes they’re looking for. The survival of Christian churches depends on men seeing spiritual life as equally as important as financial health and physical well-being
@@ninagrace-lee8323 The modern day church depends ALOT on money, so, I think most churches have done what many companies have done, and that’s cater to those who spend the most money. I’ve spoken with men about this topic and they believe there’s too much emphasis on music in most churches. They’d rather the priority be teaching and Bible Study. I’ve also spoken with women who feel like “church just isn’t church without praise & worship”. I’ve always found it interesting that Christianity is the only religion that relies so heavily on music. While there was music and instruments mentioned in the Bible (oooooonly in the Old Testament mind you), I think music is being used as a crutch in most churches, and I think the church would look vastly different if they abandoned the current entertainment driven models and adopted a “learning center” type of approach. And again, this is coming from a church musician.
@@ALTheFreeMan I think there is a way to accommodate both audiences. Maybe my church is different idk. But at least 70 minutes is just preaching. And we have additional classes that are taught for new converts + theological class that walks you through the Bible each month. Lesson plans and everything. And our Wednesday Bible study is also a lesson plan we follow. We are also quite small in number - many people prefer the church model you’re criticizing. It’s just considered a marketable style of doing church these days On TV I see a lot of musical performances with dark churches and strobe lights. Most women seem to like it, but the only guys who thrive in that environment are very charismatic or pastors themselves (who are also charismatic). Not sure what would be required for things to change
@@ninagrace-lee8323 The church I attend is a pretty big church with many pastors and other leadership who are “on staff”, so, there’s definitely a lot of financial obligations there. Your church may be different because it’s a smaller church, which is what I think is actually better for people who aren’t into the big show. I don’t think there’s any way to change the mega-church environment without having to cut costs, budget, and staff. Sounds like your church is doing some great things. Bigger churches should be taking notes, lol.
It has been usurped in the church just like it is being usurped in the wider culture. Its the matriarchy being set in place, because women are generally more compliant than men.
A pope for what? Where do u find a pope in scriptures. Peter was not the first pope. Catholic Church has no connection whatsoever with the disciples. The modern church does not follow God's commandments. The church is the fast track to hell
Nah...I've been on both sides the fence looking into eternity on my own. I need Jesus. Pretty much every guy I know needs Jesus. They just don't need "boyfriend Jesus".
I was a volunteer firefighter for many years. On the fireground I saw strong men full of love, grace and forgiveness: it drove them to save lives, to risk their own life, back up a mate who was doing the wrong thing and still support him in the job.
I'm over 40, never married, no kids, I'm an outcast in church.
Why are you an outcast? Do you still go to church then?
There are great churches that have GREAT singles ministries!!!
@@pastormike396 Thank you for the encouragement !!
Me too. But everyone thinks I’m divorced. They don’t ask and I don’t tell:) But once I just went to church and quit dating women in the church, my problems with women simply disappeared:)
@@mitchsalawine5420 Amen! Women dont want husbands, they want male servants! men cant be called to be leaders & servants of the same person! i know this sounds all churchy to say, but thats not how this REALLY works! We NEED all male churches. Will our atheist masters let us have them?
I remember being a kid and watching all the members of my church during worship, raising their hands and singing and couldn't help thinking how stupid this was, I couldn't make myself go back as an adult
For many men, it breaks down to many categories. One, they do not need another job. Most churches only tap into their men for task and labor. Secondly, most men's groups or study's are "you suck 101". They tell men that they suck as fathers, being a husband, your are addicted to porn, you don't have work-life balance. Who wants to show up for that constantly? Thirdly, it is missing where men are in life and there is very little discipleship. This requires more than go read a book. For those of us who have been in the military, you were constantly training and teaching. I think that many churches tend to lack in giving directives or setting reasonable goals. In many ways it is like being in an ADHD circus. Those are some common points that I have seen.
As the joke goes, on Mother's Day, the pastor praises mothers. On Father's Day, he tells men to shape up.
Scott P and also for 💰.
Best church approaches I've seen: a morning bible reading time once a week. Before heading off to work about a dozen men and the rector gathered to simply read the bible together.
Another: once a quarter, a men's get together: dinner, chat, a Christian guest speaker on a manly topic. Men just need men time with other men, as the starting point, with none of the deprecatory distractions.
Right! I'm not addicted to porn. So most men's ministries have no value to me.
If a preacher tells you, you suck as a husband and as a father and you don't, what are you worried about? Men don't go to church because they don't want to hear the confrontational truth contained in scripture, period!
We need a divorced men's support group. I have seen a ton of divorced men who need the love of God,especially as they have went through an experience which destroys men. These are men who need some comforting,but also,discipleship and guidance,to help them get through this experience
A big part of the problem here is that countless pastors are afraid to confront the women in their churches, especially when one woman or a woman and her group of followers wants to run the church. Evangelical women over the past several decades, have gotten a free pass in churches. They're not called in for church discipline. If they are running down their husbands or trying to steal their husband's God-given headship they are never confronted and discipline.
Amen! we had problems with several struggling marriages in a small evangelical church I attended, including my own. my now ex-wife & i went to the Pastor & his wife, separately for counseling. I got the 'shape up or else' she got the sympathy and the 'be patient, he will change' spiel. women are usually treated with kid gloves.
bingo
This is interesting. I quit going to church in 1974 because I felt uncomfortable going.
So do I.
I stopped going because people got TOO comfortable...
Most men don't go to church because they seem to feel ,men from the pulpit are going to preach to them how they need to step up to the plate, and be a man to their family, in their own home, and what the Bible said. That's how I see it. The MAIN reason on point for most is , NO MAN, wants to hear another men tell him how to run his house ,other than Jesus HIMSELF.
The pulpit condemns men and worships women.
actually the bible says that women are to obey their husband oh my gosh this is hate speech we need to call the govt and file complaint. why i dont step on a church. because women are cute little innocent bunnies and men are a bunch of stupid toxic masculine football watching video game playing idiots who cant step up. the problem is this is the type of men women dated in past had kids with in past the hot rich bad boy. now they want to be virgins and want men to re-marry them give them money for their kids so they can go shopping again 3 times a week while the pastor will always defend them and women make up stories and lie like a car salesperson sell-ling the deal with the pastor while noone is looking and noticing. people are too busy singing songs and kissing gods butt on Sunday for 2 hours.
THANK YOU!!!!!! Pulpit is becoming a lecture hall
I think the better tree to bark up on would be the pastor tends to overly correct the men so much, and generally gives the women a free pass.
Other than that, if the Pastor is simply quoting scripture, and he's not doing so in a manner drawing attention to himself, then it's not the pastor who is at fault, it's the reflection in the mirror who is at fault.
@@Ndondiafrika254 what wrong with being lectured? What's wrong with correction? It seems like men have an issue with it because yall believe correction should only be applied to women and not to men.
Great conversation… I spit out my coffee at “praise-gasm”. Very apt and theologically balanced.
I love how they have such a serious setting but come up with the funniest lines.
Women like church because the pastors display a type of power over the congregation.
True. And pastors don't like strong men.
I commented on this two years ago; when I worked for a church (as admin guy). What I now observe is that the NT church met to edify one another; where all contribute to the assembly (in an orderly manner). 1 Cor 11-14 sets this all out.
We meet to learn and teach, not to spectate at a concert! We engage each other's lives. We learn how to talk the gospel to others, to encourage each other. Not just to be the stage hand at a womens' club.
Men are held to traditional roles and values. The Church doesn't know what to do with modern women's roles, so there's no BALANCED accountability.
The Church is also struggling to balance a merciful/ graceful God and a feared and just God.
Although He's our heavenly father, God is a lot less warm and fuzzy than many think He is.
... also, y'all need to pay the light bill. 💡
I'm a long time church musician. The music has gotten soft, flabby, repetitive and lovey dovey. Also older musicians have been phased out for the skinny jean knit beanie crowd.
These days I could write a worship symphony on a laptop, it wouldn't be played in church.
Dead right. Some songs I don't bother to even sing their words are so soppy, its blasphemous. Our Lord is not our 'crush'. He is our King, Creator and Leader.
Church musician here, and I totally agree!! And the women don’t really care what men think of praise & worship. They selfishly sing their feminine worship songs, along with romantic pink lighting that sets the mood, and if you don’t like it, then your “relationship” with God is questioned. It’s easy to see why men would rather play video games and watch football over going to church.
@@ALTheFreeMan good observation however, the God given role that men were given by Almighty God, the God of the Bible, hello, must be taken. I refuse to give my spiritual covering role to my wife that role was entrusted to me for His glory!!! Men we can't quit and play video games...
@@pastormike396LMAO Thats so inspiring Pastor Pantywaist! You should speak publically for a living! Your wife will TAKE it from you, and your money to boot! Big Brother is their god now; they listen to him because he gives her EVERYTHING her heart desires, and never says no to her.
When I first stumbled across this conversation I was surprised at the fact that it was 7 years old. And right on target. These guys are saying things I know to be true. I grew up in Southern California where there was a good sampling of high school students. It was the crystal cathedral. I really didn’t like the Sunday service cuz it just wasn’t my thing. But either Friday or Saturday night there was pizza and ice cream. And during the football games there were video recordings which were randomly on the walls. It was packed. Nowadays (I live in indianapolis now) and once you’re past high school you are on your own. Hint: church is probably a thing of the past. Not a lot of traffic jams. A whole generation has seemingly been lost
1. We are the Church. The institutions are not.
2. Start meeting together in each other’s homes.
3. Stop trying to get 501c3’s and start doing what the first church did with their money: make sure no one in the congregation has any need.
4. Stop acting like the lifeblood of Christianity is MONEY. It’s the Holy Spirit.
5. Start looking to each other as family instead of “members.” You will be spending the rest of eternity together, so act like it.
Men aren’t leaving the Church, they’re leaving religious institutions. There’s no need to go get them and bring them back, they’re already the Church.
Church just hasn’t been the same since we stopped crusading :(
I love it!
Wow Dave completely owned this conversation.
“The Jesus is my boyfriend gospel” has to stop for sure. One time me and my wife attempted to join a house church and in one occasion a sister in Christ had a problem with the idea of a men always being the head of the church. All men had to pretend like the Bible doesn’t already address that 😑 annoying
With True Love comes correction
How about True Respect? men value respect more than love. Women do NOT love men. They only need us. But if they will respect us, we can get along.
The music thing is a big reason why I went back to a traditional Catholic Mass. If I see electric guitars and drums, I'm outta there. I don't like singing traditional hymns, much less the love songs to Jesus that so many churches are into now. The best word to describe it for a man is "Cringe".
What is the music in a "traditional catholic" mass like? Isn't that hymns? I miss hymns....I can't sing so I never sing anyway
I agree.
Yep, Paul tells us to sing to each other as teaching; any songs, however simple, have to have theological content. Days of Elijah at Camp Pendleton is how its done.
I'm Baptist Christian and I'm a musician I see it as a way to praise, and I enjoy it but I can understand why it's not as enjoyable and it can even be hated the choir of my church would almost never get along and still doesn't we would spend 3 to 4 hours and be barely able to sing two songs on Sunday drove me nuts I prefer to just play my instruments by myself and sing whatever song I please to praise God the BS in the church has gotten out of hand it's one of the reasons I don't like going other than the pondering BS that the pastors Beat Around and then the Brotherhood meetings that we have that really aren't Brotherhood it's just old men looking down on young men for not making the same mistakes that they're making right now which is retarded
I live in a small town qith really only one church. The " worshipteam" are all young ladies, the church board has 5 women and one man,and the pastor selected a young woman to be assistant pastor about a year ago. I rarely attend now.
The modern church s created for the younger man and women in general, but not for the mature man who has got a mind of their own.
True.
Positively wonderful discussion. Clear, informative, but most of all, biblically sound. Good to know the issues surrounding our men are looked at again from a Biblical understanding. Bless you guys for standing up!
Man, this guy finally calls out Joshua Harris' bullcrap!! Hero!!!
It,s not about quantity it,s about quality and love of God.
List message is not to you nor for you! Please go to the women's room where you belong! You dont belong here, and you understand nothing.
Couldn't agree more.
The trend towards man shaming sure is not helping.
This is true! Its very counter-productive! is there anywhere in the world where men CAN be encouraged?
@@inconnu4961 amen the ministries demoralizing men need to repent. Men are supposed to lead feminism infiltrated the church.
Great conversation.
I dislike long worship, a guy standing up front always telling how it is and my wife always agreeing with him and me always having to be agreeable.
Agree but nothing wrong with a long sermon. Part of traditional protestant service. As long as its a biblical sermon, not "testimonies" or the like, motivation and financial stuff. And yes nothing worse than 45 minutes of contemporary pop concert
@@Dilley_G45 You know, most people can read the entire gospel of Mark within thirty minutes. If your sermon lasts longer than the entire gospel about Christ, you need to sit down and shut up.
@@artemmjoukov my Sermon? Lol do you tell your pastor to shut up? I am not a pastor btw. I'd rather have a long biblical sermon than long "motivational talk" or "testimonies" whilst modern churches do. Really no point going there unless you want a free coffee but I don't sit through 90 minutes of pop music and heresies for for free coffee
@@Dilley_G45 I tell my pastor to shut up by not going to church. The Catholics have it right: five to ten minutes, and scene.
No more beating around the bush, straight to the point.
6 years later it’s worse, the guys are talking about mgtow. I’m fortunate to have found a reformed Presbyterian church that actually in the prayer asks wives to respect their husbands. It’s the first church I have ever felt there was something for men.
Yep. Murrow's book is now 16 years old, and the problem is still there. Personally, I haven't regularly attended "church" in years, and every time I visit one all I see are old people and single mothers.
MGTOW is the only rational response.
The truth is that the relationship between men and women is one of hierarchy. As long as we pretend it's one of complementarity, church will continue to bleed men.
What guys are talking about mgtow?
@@theplasmacollider6431 LOTS of guys are talking about it! There are many, many Christians in the manosphere! they sense the rise of a matriarchy, where women are 1st class citizens but men are only 2nd class citizens. Leave your cozy bubble and look for it. it wont be hard to find!
Man you are blessed. It’s very difficult to find grounded churches (even Reformed) in my area that encourage men without feminised tirades.
Where's your church at cuz I'm on my way
The 4 s is what church always was....the difference is that contemporary churches have lukewarm message and bad music....go back to liturgical services....truth before emotions...hymns instead of contemporary music and its how it was and should be. Men don't stay home because we have to sing and sit still. We don't like standing to ambient sounds even while a "pastor" talks. We don't mind a long expository sermon and sound doctrine. We like a challenge. We like to have something worth defending.
Amen!
This was an excellent video and very accurate from my experience also. I’m a musician on the worship team but fortunately we aren’t a bunch of touchy, feely wimps and simps. As a younger person I hated youth groups and lock ins because it was too geared towards emotions and females. I stopped going and would never recommend anyone go to these
No... I was never a knucklehead:) Inexperienced yes. Very mature for my age in certain areas. And immature in others, yes. But the big thing was Jesus. Coming to Him. With all of my faults, all of my sins. And realizing that I was a good man, as I am now. I’m just not sinless or faultless. And that’s why I need Him so much! I wish the church would just let me alone sometimes in pointing out, not my faults, but my potential faults. That is enough.
What does it mean to make Sunday school more kinetic?
Physical activities. Running, jumping, sports, exercise, etc.
It is misleading to say men do not like going to church. It is based on the false premise that "going to church" is a legitimate phrase that describes a reality that can actually happen.
We are part of the church. We are part of our marriage. We are part of our friendships.
You can go meet with friends, but you cannot go to your friendship.
You can go to lunch with your wife, but you cannot go to your marriage.
You can attend believers' meetings, but you cannot go to church.
Now, with that out of the way, the question needs to be recrafted like this:
Why men hate going to feminized, religious social club meetings.
Great Interview - thanks. Its now 2023 and Im from a church ( a progressive pentecostal ) doing a good job at cutting out its men and Im gutted as I watch men falling off the wagon and giving up.
So, I have a question. One of you mentioned Hillsong capturing the young men. Its now 2023 and I would say the Hillsong type of church only captures most of its men until they reach the responsibility years when being a dad and work and sport becomes more attractive. My question is, do you really think they have captured the men? I think not - they just distracted them. I am standing on the sideline watching 40-60 year old men leaving saying It no longer works for me. However just recently one of my friends upon leaving said to me "I dont really understand it - its just like Ive lost my awe of God" ... now I think that explains it.
This is very deep. Our GOD has been replace with women's goddess (jezebel).
Joshua Harris has since repudiated "I Kissed Dating Goodbye".
He repudiated a lot more than that.
thefederalist.com/2019/11/08/whats-incredibly-damaging-to-the-gospel-joshua-harris-are-your-lies-about-it/
@@Razaiel Thanks for the link, very interesting to see a big time pastor flip flop on so many issues & even no longer considers himself a Christian. A double minded man is unstable in ALL his ways. This guy is as double minded as they come!
Another interpretation is that he wrote the book way before he was qualified to do so, and then overcorrected later in life so bad he apostatized.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 This sounds closer to it. But it was the craze at the time, and he got wealthy off of it! We have LOTS of snake-oil sales people in our churches, unfortunately!
@@inconnu4961 Calling him a “snake oil salesman” seems a bit harsh. Though, it was certainly unwise.
Thanks for calling out Joshua Harris who turned out to be a false convert
poor lighting
These people get a lot of the problem but not enough. Read Dalrock, the pastors continually absolve women of all their sins and blame men for not leading well enough. You want a Church with men?
1- Demand that women cover their heads as they did for 2K years in Church in obedience to clear Scripture. No headcovering, shave your head and declare yourself rebellious.
2- Jettison anything by Beth Moore and other such heretics. Preach sermons from time to time that a rebellious woman is NOT the fault of someone else but of the woman herself. No, it is not the husband's fault if the wife is off the rails.
3- Esteem Truth above relationships. Not once did Christ set rules above people, not once. The woman caught in adultery is not even part of the Bible, it was put in there long after Nicea and is not in the earliest documents. Even if it were a true story, it does not mean Christ set aside any rules. The woman was supposed to be stoned together with the man and he was nowhere around.
God made it clear that the male was to lead. That also means that the way of men, rules > relations, competition > cooperation and reality > hypocrisy is to rule.
The youth group leader he talks about @6:40 sounded suspect lol
Need a little lighting. :)
I know in my heart that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ is his son and he is my Lord and Savior. I have read my bible back to front each year for at least 15 years, prayed over people, helped when needed, but when my ex wife left me for a married youth pastor, the church turned their back on me. They did nothing to help ease my pain. I can't go to a church in my area without her prints all over it due to her "ministries" or book signings ect ect. She can preach forgiveness but cannot treat me with respect.
I thought I was the only one, then I discovered this content and judging from the comments, so many more of you are heartbroken. I am sick of hearing on how men need to man up, only to go home to a woman who stifles any form of manliness and leaves when you hold her accountable for her own sins. I am sick of women being treated like hero victims while I see them sleeping around with multiple men in the church. I have never seen a pastor call out the women of the church for dressing like pole dancers on the front row. I didn't leave the church, the church left me.
I wouldn't write the music men in church off just because they don't engage in physical activity. Instead, I think you should call the church out for catering to one group of men and neglecting the other.
I’ll say for single men like me never been married no kids it makes him like. What do I have too offer in their church building when majority of your sermons are geared to wife and kids sermons?
Where are the churches with so many single women? I have never seen one. Just saying. Been traveling a lot. Lived in different cities and countries and been to different churches. I don't see where there is a lack of single men
Honestly, as a manly man,, I get more from my daily walk and devotion with and to Jesus throughout the week than I do from attending church. I get more prepping for my men’s Bible study that I lead every Saturday morning. I get more out of my prayer time. Pretty much the only reason I go to church is to encourage other men and to show my face. I can’t be a leader and not attend my church. It just don’t look good. Honestly, I’d rather be at the gym or cutting the grass than be at church on Sunday morning.
You don't lead your Bible Study group, the Holy Spirit does. You serve it: convene it, facilitate it, ensure that every one can ask questions and offer views, which then get discussed in turn.
@ oh nay nay. I lead under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Every Saturday I begin the meeting with 1 Peter 4:11…..”whoever speaks. Let them speak as it were the very words of God.” Trust me, I’m very well aware of the fact that I’m a tool or vessel in HIS hands.
However, I appreciate your intentions.
We had woman in the 80-90’s were dating Jesus I had a gal in the early 1990’s came to my house every Sunday after church for lunch after 6 months she would not return calls avoided me at church she and paster falsely accused me of all kinds of stuff they called me fat ect few months latter she Marie’s another man who was 4” shorter and 50 lbs heaven than me found out latter he was making 150 k a year it was about money
What's the point, if you're a single average bro you'll never meet your future wifey there, they all seem to want Mr Church Chad and his long guitar neck.
This is good stuff, but there's a lot of misconceptions about the Old Testament (Torah + Tanakh) vs New Testament.
The Bible says God's word was/is perfect and the new covenant is God writing that very same word on our hearts.
There was grace and mercy and love in the OT. There was a great emphasis on being circumcised IN YOUR HEART in the OT.
Great insights, but I have to laugh at the title-how many guys go to church with David Murrow, and why are there so many who don't like attending with him? 😉 In all seriousness, as I've seen as a lay minister it's hard enough to get the men to attend regularly, let alone look up from their phones. Keep the faith, help your fellow brothers feel welcome and needed, and trust in Him!
Possibly poor attendance by men is that our church assemblies do not reflect Pauls teaching about the 'one-another' program he sets out in 1 Cor 11-14.
True
8 years later and the only thing that has changed is churches are splitting because of various sicknesses. I have watched alot of videos on the subject and none of them identity the real reasons men dont attend church. Sad and pathetic
This is not a problem that began in the 19th century. It’s as old as Genesis 3:16, but it began to encroach seriously on the European Christian mindset about nine centuries ago.
The courtly love associated with medieval chivalry had the effect of divinizing a knight’s mistress, so that earthly sexual urges were replaced with a pseudo-spiritual abasement and obedience to her wishes, transferring the worship of God to the worship of femininity, which was (and unfortunately still is) assumed to be more righteous than masculinity, thereby sanctifying acts of war. The troubadour poets of 11th-century France, inspired by Arabic sources, began the practice of celibate adultery and the love of women as an ennobling moral force. It’s no coincidence that Marian pilgrimages and French cathedrals dedicated to “Our Lady” began to explode in growth in the 12th century. The mystics Catherine of Siena in the 14th century, who claimed that Jesus gave his foreskin to her as a wedding ring, and Teresa of Ávila in the 15th century, used the concept of courtly love to express their devotion to Christ.[1. The English Order of the Garter and the Burgundian Order of the Golden Fleece were formed in the 14th and 15th centuries, respectively.] Even Francis of Assisi called himself “a knight for Lady Poverty.”
As Christians mainstreamed this devious philosophy, it came to be seen as the means of transforming marriage into the perfection of love by spiritualizing it. In Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare shows how seeking “love” that is disconnected from family and familial obligations turns into a sociopathic horror that ends in death. In the prologue to Don Quixote, the stated purpose of the book is “to destroy the authority and influence that books of chivalry have in the world,” and in the text Don Quixote tells Sancho Panza, “Religión es la caballería” (“Chivalry is a religion”).
Thus, the framework for feminism was erected. The path from there to here is fascinating to trace. It began with Christian men, superior over home, church, and state, seeking to baptize their efforts in allegedly unsullied womanhood, as though this was a blessing from God himself. Christians replaced procreation with romance as the template for marriage. A happy home became the evidence of a man’s faithful obedience to God, and an unhappy home became the evidence of his disobedience to God. God’s law was replaced with a woman’s feelings. It’s important to realize that women demanded social and political equality with men after it had long been established in many churches, contrary to what Christians had always believed, that women are the judges of their husbands, and society is obliged to accept their judgment. This was helped along by men’s natural desire to protect, defend, and support women, and due to their own ignorance, the Bible became less of a guide to them than consensus.
Feminism infected the North during the 19th century and worked its way south. Today, distinct sexual roles are considered by the average urbanite to be as valid as a belief in alchemy. At the movies, leather-clad, cross-dressing women with perfect hair easily defeat seasoned warriors. We witness now the comedy of drag queens being banned from sodomite pride parades for fear of offending “transsexuals”! Soon, female scholarships and business subsidies will be treated as a binary assault on civil rights.
Unfaithful churches have this foul wind in their sails and are fanatically equalizing sexual roles, having long since abdicated authority in the home and civil realm. Christian leaders patronize the masses, preaching that wives are moral barometers for their hapless husbands. The mania to ordain women is now matched only by that of inventing racial sins committed by departed white men and proudly and loudly repenting of them.
The boundaries of race, nation, and sex are being obliterated in the name of “love,” defined not as our Christian ancestors defined love but as the Communist Party, Democratic National Committee, and Anti-Defamation League want it defined. And just as unrequited lust was considered ennobling by French medievals, “gay” Christians (but not pedophiles?) are honored members of godless churches today, so long as they don’t act upon their desires. And if they do, well, don’t-ask-don’t-tell.
Chivalry subordinates marriage to romance by teaching that women are inherently moral and the arbiters of manners, and that the wife is superior to her husband. Chivalry requires that after a man pursues a woman[2. Yet the only two books of the Bible that are named after women, Ruth and Esther, are about women who pursued their husbands.] and she judges his merit as a husband, his virtue must continue to be judged by his wife’s emotional state after marriage. This leads to cuckoldry, frivorce, and a host of ills.
Mega churches are full and will not grow anymore than it is now. (Not with men) The current model of praise and worship is the problem. Bands, coffee, hands up high swinging. The message is sometimes good. But guys don't want to hold hands and put them up high for all to see. And this video was 8 years ago!!!
We don't go because we don't need too
We dont? I have yet to meet a perfect man. Im pretty sure we ALL need to fellowship with the BOC.
The church system is no different than the secular school system.
20:36 2023 just entered the chat 😂
7:09 "when I was a kid, praise and worship was a couple of songs (...) and then we'd get back to the pizza"
It sounds like what he wanted was a club and not religion.
Beta?
These fellows sound like they had been listening to Rush Limbaugh ranting about “feminazis.”
This video is old but it’s still an interesting conversation. All this talk about “feminized” churches but I have yet to see a woman being the head pastor of a church. I have yet to see a trustee board with predominantly women, if there are women involved at all. Most of the executive decisions are made by men who lead churches, not their wives.
This seems like an issue that MEN have with the MEN making the calls. I suggest you take it up with them. Bc at this point, it’s ridiculous complaining about church culture when you won’t even attend consistently
Additionally, the main problem I’ve seen with men in ministry is arrogance. Every man thinks he’s the smartest and shouldn’t be told what to do, even by the pastor. He doesn’t want to be obedient and listen but expects to be listened to by every woman he encounters. These men are often rebellious, lack consistency and resist pastoral authority. They hate when their wives listen to another man (meaning, the PASTOR) simply bc it isn’t him. This is a problem when women are constantly told to be submissive just bc she’s a woman…
So yeah. Men do leave the church bc they don’t want to submit to another man. They do it all the time at work but somehow at church, it’s different. A whole lot of male ego has ruined families in the church and caused some to leave the church, all bc the husband was upset he was being held accountable by another man.
That’s something that should be dealt with. Sure churches have been feminized but it’s mainly bc the men left. Abdicated responsibility, hated being obedient and held accountable. Now the only congregants are women willing to do unpaid work at the church for the pastor.
You’re speaking of men in leadership positions within the church, which I agree is still male dominated for the most part. But, I think they’re referencing the congregational experience in general. A lot of men feel left out of the church experience, especially if they’re not in leadership or musically inclined. The songs, the sermons, the pink lights, it’s just not comfortable for the average “guy’s guy”. I’m a church musician, so, every Sunday I see men struggling to sing these romantic songs that easily garner an emotional response from women. It’s just what the church has become these days, and most women seem to have no problem with it unless they’re single and looking for a man, lol.
@@ALTheFreeMan That’s fair. My church worship songs are the opposite. Most of the songs are mainly about God in battle or fighting for us. I will say the heavy emphasis in worship is true for Christian culture across the board, even my church. We have at least an hour just for the sermon, but 30 minutes of praise/worship music can be a lot I guess
I think this is a chicken or the egg conversation. Is the church experience curated for women because there’s mainly women who prioritize attendance? Or did the church experience change first, and that’s what pushed men away?
My opinion is that women force their husbands to go consistently. If that ever stopped (which it did) then men wouldn’t go to church. Men have to decide to go consistently to enforce the changes they’re looking for. The survival of Christian churches depends on men seeing spiritual life as equally as important as financial health and physical well-being
@@ninagrace-lee8323 The modern day church depends ALOT on money, so, I think most churches have done what many companies have done, and that’s cater to those who spend the most money. I’ve spoken with men about this topic and they believe there’s too much emphasis on music in most churches. They’d rather the priority be teaching and Bible Study. I’ve also spoken with women who feel like “church just isn’t church without praise & worship”. I’ve always found it interesting that Christianity is the only religion that relies so heavily on music. While there was music and instruments mentioned in the Bible (oooooonly in the Old Testament mind you), I think music is being used as a crutch in most churches, and I think the church would look vastly different if they abandoned the current entertainment driven models and adopted a “learning center” type of approach. And again, this is coming from a church musician.
@@ALTheFreeMan I think there is a way to accommodate both audiences. Maybe my church is different idk. But at least 70 minutes is just preaching. And we have additional classes that are taught for new converts + theological class that walks you through the Bible each month. Lesson plans and everything. And our Wednesday Bible study is also a lesson plan we follow. We are also quite small in number - many people prefer the church model you’re criticizing. It’s just considered a marketable style of doing church these days
On TV I see a lot of musical performances with dark churches and strobe lights. Most women seem to like it, but the only guys who thrive in that environment are very charismatic or pastors themselves (who are also charismatic). Not sure what would be required for things to change
@@ninagrace-lee8323 The church I attend is a pretty big church with many pastors and other leadership who are “on staff”, so, there’s definitely a lot of financial obligations there. Your church may be different because it’s a smaller church, which is what I think is actually better for people who aren’t into the big show. I don’t think there’s any way to change the mega-church environment without having to cut costs, budget, and staff. Sounds like your church is doing some great things. Bigger churches should be taking notes, lol.
I bet the handicap people really appreciated that joke you silly guy ( they blocked the word I tried to use🤬).
Calling some boys low testosterone isn’t helping the church.
Most men don't know their God given role, function or place.
It has been usurped in the church just like it is being usurped in the wider culture. Its the matriarchy being set in place, because women are generally more compliant than men.
It's clear they aren't learning it at church
Are you an encourager or criticizer...
Is the church doing its role correctly? Because if not then they must take responsibility for misleading men on masculine roles.
Beta?
If people follow the bible every need will be met. That is why we as Jehova, s witness SEEM different
I'm not a big fan of people it's just me being autistic
We need a new Pope
A pope for what?
Where do u find a pope in scriptures.
Peter was not the first pope.
Catholic Church has no connection whatsoever with the disciples.
The modern church does not follow God's commandments.
The church is the fast track to hell
Men dont need jesus, they can live a good life without any religion, even a spiritual life if they so desire
Nah...I've been on both sides the fence looking into eternity on my own. I need Jesus. Pretty much every guy I know needs Jesus. They just don't need "boyfriend Jesus".
@tracypoole8857 so have I'll, more than content to have kicked the fictitious jesus to the kerb of mythology
Have fun being affraid of the world ending because i drive an suv instead of a tesla. Atleast Christians know what a woman is.
Love ,Grace and Forgiveness feminine attributes?....Lets see you go to the cross David Murrow
I was a volunteer firefighter for many years. On the fireground I saw strong men full of love, grace and forgiveness: it drove them to save lives, to risk their own life, back up a mate who was doing the wrong thing and still support him in the job.