To me it represented the tension he was under in this scene and when his attention was on the surrounding and when he focused on the words of the presenter. I feel like I might have missed somehting because the character might not have payed attention and I am in the same position of knowledge that he is, I know as much as he does.
@@futuretrunks6461 Did the same. Had no problems understanding the story and was really thankful that those devices existed. I watched 2 minutes of the film without the CC device before walking out of the theater and asking for the device for me and my parents (who want subtitles as much as possible) and was so thankful that I was able to understand the movie on the first go
I’m not a native English speaker, but I’m fluent and can usually understand everything, but after watching tenet in the cinema I was getting worried that my English got worse😂 I’m relieved to hear that I wasn’t the only one wishing for subtitles in the cinema
Same. When I watched Interstellar as a non-native speaker with my British family I thought I must have lost my ability to understand English (and I have a BA in it like whaaat). Then I though it was Matthew McConnaughy‘s (whatever his name is) intense mumbling. I normally never put subtitles on but for all Nolan movies I do now.
@@BenutzernameXY That's likely because the German dubbing cast and coordinator did not know or understand that Nolan intended to have those bits of dialogue muffled to emphasize the loudness of the scene. Of course, IRL, I'd ask a character to repeat themselves, even if bullets are flying at my head. If I don't get the message, there's no point in taking more risks as a character in the film. I wonder if in German culture, they would also ask the person speaking to repeat themselves. lol
If Nolan only wants his films to be accessible in the best quality theaters, he should make sure his contracts state his films will only be viewed in those theaters. No mediocre theaters, no streaming, no blu ray. Otherwise he is stealing from his audience - because selling a ticket or permitting home viewing implies that the audience will be able to experience the movie - the WHOLE movie.
@@DustinGlendinning I can only speak for the small local cinema I work at but in my experience it's rarely anything like training that's needed, it's the incredibly expensive specific equipment that even most chain cinema's can't afford to have as standard in every screen. It's just never normally necessary, I've seen glitches and stuff where the sounds gone wrong and something needed to be fixed but Tenent and Interstellar are the only films where I've ever had the experience of customers coming out to complain about the sound when it was actually playing exactly as it was supposed too. I mean sure we don't have the most top of the line equipment but we don't have shitty cheap stuff either, and we are the only cinema available around so our customers can't just choose to see things in IMAX or whatever. I kinda don't hate the idea of making films with the express intention of them being seen on the big screen; my continued career depends on cinemas, I'm a big fan of them in general! But this level of snobbery means that MOST people seeing Nolan's films aren't getting that expensive specialist experience he's decreed is all important. Again, just imo, but the importance of the cinema is about the experience of the whole thing, it's going with friends, getting popcorn, being stuck in a dark room with a big screen- the things that make cinema markedly different to watching a film at home shouldn't be reduced to an exclusive experience only the lucky or the rich can take part in. Honestly I'm a fan of a few of Nolan's films but some of the stuff I've seen and heard him saying this last year has really soured me. I'd never call myself a fan of his in general, and I'll certainly never appreciate him talking about the "importance of cinemas" when it clear to me as someone with years of experience in one that he doesn't actually care about the experience of the average cinema-goer at all.
Sometimes it makes sense to not hear the dialogue. The tenet scene is a great example where RPatz' character is checking out the security systems and you cant hear the other dude speaking at all, it's almost mute. This is fine, the shots are telling us the story and showing us that he isn't listening anyway, he is too busy glancing around and casing the joint. Where it is criminal is when we have two characters talking to each other as the focus of the scene and we can't understand what they're saying.
For what it's worth, I saw both Interstellar and Tenet at the same theater. I never had any problems understanding Interstellar's dialogue, while Tenet was so unintelligible that I actually came away with a fundamentally incorrect idea of the motivations of at least two characters because I so badly misheard what they were saying (which was corrected later when I watched it at home with closed captions). So if he's tuning the experience for only high-end theaters, it seems like his definition of which theaters "count" as high-end are getting increasingly exclusive.
I watched Tenet in one of those really nice high-end theatres, because my friend worked there, like one of the ones where you pay $30 for a ticket. Still couldn't hear anything, was totally lost the whole time because the dialogue was totally lost in the "background music".
[Slight spoilers for Tenet] In Tenet, the scene of being shown around the freeport was effective and well done. It not only stops the audience from paying attention to the wrong things, but also helps immerse us in the perspective of Pattinson's character and what they're focussing on. However, in conjunction with that scene they're talking about the rest of the plan and on my first watch I missed them talking about the gold with any clarity. It was then very confusing when there was gold on the plane and for some reason it was being thrown off. Tenet is a film that is conceptually very challenging to comprehend, and as such much of the dialogue talking about inversion and the algorithm are essential to get a grasp on the plan and the stakes. When Nolan makes it hard to know what the plan is, it's hard for the audience to know if something is going wrong, so they will tend to assume what's happening is all according to the characters' plan. When Nolan makes it hard to know what the stakes are, there are dramatic moments that should have a lot of weight, but the audience doesn't perceive them as important because no one knows what's going on or why it matters. On my first watch, I hadn't caught why it was important that Sator not die too early, so when Elizabeth killed him it had little impact for me because I hadn't caught why it mattered. If Nolan is going to refuse to at least release a second "substandard" theatrical mix for his films, I think the best thing for people to do is wait for the home release and watch with subtitles.
Or not watch at all and see how fast it takes him to blink. Guy's up his own ass and is punishing his viewers for not having good cinemas (or any cinemas in some cases) near them.
@@taowroland8697 Oh yeah, every non native English speakers must be below "average intelligence" in your eyes then huh? In those Tenet scenes that Thomas shared in this clip, I can only hear gibberish. (No the Pattinson scene is okay as those unheard dialogues are truly unheard.)
@@taowroland8697 With "average intelligence" or implied intelligence greater than average, apparently come above average arrogance and inflated ego. Dude... You're an absolute prick.
I saw Tenet in a newly built, state of the art theater as an invite only guest. The dialogue was just as bad there as at home. I can only assume it was a creative choice but at home with subtitles (not being as emersive) helped a lot more with the dialogue. Very strange choice.
Agreed. I've missed the odd word or half of a sentence in previous Nolan films, but with Tenet I didn't even make it halfway through the opera prologue before I restarted the whole thing with subtitles.
I was one of those guys that didn’t understand how people “didn’t get” Inception. I’ve now seen Tenet 16 times, I’m not proud to say it but it’s true, and I still have no idea what the fuck is actually going on in the film.
please explain to me; what is there to "get" about inception. its literally just a string of random decors and scenes with 0 coherence and no plot besides "its all a dream lol xd. or is it lol xd. please give me 5 oscars." oh and the acting from most actors was pretty bad, even leo wasnt trying and ellen page is a plank of wood. if you didnt spot at least one huge plothole in tenet the first viewing, youre not smart enough to get that it makes no sense either.
@@TheSuperappelflap Well, yeah, Tenet can’t decide which theory of time it ultimately wants to use. It doesn’t know if it’s the grandfather paradox or if it’s deterministic and it fluctuates to suit the needs of the plot. It’s not Nolan’s best by any stretch, but I still don’t know that I’d called it bad. As far as Inception, I agree there’s nothing to “get” other than its plot, which is far less complicated than people make it out to be. I don’t think it’s poorly acted, however, and I don’t think it was Oscar bait considering the years of time Nolan out into developing the concept alone, in fact, it’s one of my favorite films.
in case this interests somebody... I have been doing a particular thing, when in conversation with someone, which you may think is a little peculiar. sometimes I find myself listening too much to what the person is saying, like I get a sense that I’m listening chiefly with my intellect. so I ‘tune out’ a bit, which causes me to miss some of what the person is saying. but during that ‘tuning out’, I ‘listen’ with more of my awareness than the sense of hearing, as if I want to hear more of what is really going on. perhaps I didn’t explain this clearly... but at any rate, I find this practice very interesting, and my listening-even despite not hearing some things-feels much, much better, as if I can ‘hear’ what that person is feeling.
I saw Oppenheimer in 70mm. The music repeatedly was blown out over the top of the dialogue. The only reason it could be understood is they just cranked the theater volume to obscene.
Next Nolan movie: A bunch of key scenes will be horribly out-of-focus, a blurry unintelligible mess on the screen, because he “doesn’t believe only in clarity of visuals”. In 20 years, he’ll be directing 10-hour epics that are just a gray screen with white noise for 10 straight hours.
You can hear Bane just fine. People got it in their head that they couldn't because of the prologue preview. You couldn't understand Bane at all. It was dubbed over in the final release.
It's perfectly reasonable to have a sound mix targeting the most advanced cinemas. But those represent a tiny fraction of the cinemas in the world. There must therefore be a sound mix appropriate for them. Similarly there would need to be different mixes for average home theatres. What it comes down to is Nolan is telling me not to pay to see his films. There are none of those fancy cinemas nearby. I'm glad I ended up not bothering to see Tenet at the cinema and instead watched it at home where I can at least boost the dialogue volume or switch on the subtitles. I've seen some people advocating using headphones to watch films, but I don't see how having to buy several pairs of headphones and requiring everyone to wear them is a viable way to watch films. I liked the idea of Mubi, but was disappointed to find that 99% of the films listed on their site are not available to watch. There are many films I'd want to watch, but they aren't actually streaming them.
There's a scene with Commissioner Gordon and Blake in TDKR, where they're in an apartment, while the city is being taken over. The dialogue is drowned out by the music no matter what sound system I'm using. That scene doesn't make sense to have been purposefully mixed like that. It's just frustrating.
Also the scene with Gordon in the hospital was unintelligible. Bane was even worse in the sneak peak before they adjusted and unnaturally boosted his voice.
Just saw the 70mm IMAX Tenet rerelease at Lincoln Square AMC, and you still couldn't understand the dialogue. His excuse of focusing on top of the line theatres doesn't seem to hold up unless the largest IMAX theatre in the country is subpar in his opinion. Thankfully, the film is incomprehensible enough, so I didn't worry about not understanding some of the dialogue.
The problem is the suppression is still dynamically compressed to the mix in a bizarre way. There's still an "audio pressure" that we're trying to connect to but is constantly being rebuffed by the other layers mastered. The way the ratio, threshold, attack/release is done, actually draws attention to the audio being subverted. i.e The inverse of melodic fills that we hear in music, except, it is a human voice, and so our neurology is tuned into trying to prioritize that. The result is subconscious frustration turning conscious. We become aware of how aggravated we are and summarize it as "we can't hear what they're saying." People understand it's intended that way, but cannot reconcile that with fundamental neurological impulses. Thus, "we can't figure out what they're saying." In other words, we know it may not be important, but how it's being done is causing us to want to process it at some level even if we end up deprioritizing it cognitively. The effect literally does the opposite of what it's intending and leads to the "okay but so what?" when the author/creator explains themselves. As inferred, the irony is that humans are very good at understanding when something is superfluous and tuning it out - it isn't a new idea to have dialogue that isn't paid attention to.There are other ways of achieving this effect. I'd put forward you could still have subdued dialogue, and not have it engineered so noticeably off. The technical way Nolan has it done is the psychological equivalent of pointing to the audience and saying "don't think about the pink elephant."
As English is not my first language, I always assume I missed a line because I didn't understand it, then I use subtitles for that particular part of the movie.
First time I saw Tenet the first half of the movie was the loudest I've ever experienced in a cinema. I actually asked the staff if there was an issue with the sound afterward.
I kinda stopped watching Nolan films after Tenet. I left the theater mentally exhausted and angry that I sat through the entire thing. Also, its a little snobby to literally *require* his audience to pay top-dollar to view his films in a high-end theater. I'm not hating on all is stuff. I loved Interstellar and the Batman trilogy, but when he seemingly goes out of his way to make things difficult story-wise and audio-wise, he loses me.
interstellar is my favourite movie, no lie. i watched it RIGHT before this popped up in my feed. perhaps i am biased, but the only time where the audio and dialogue is nigh on unintelligible is Dr Brands deathbed confession. the rest of the dialogue in the movie is completely coherent and if it is otherwise muffled it is because it fits the plot where 50% of the dialogue is with the characters in environment suits.
If you're going to drown out dialog, at least make the scene and actors' interaction loud enough to convey what is being said or going on. There was a time when all films were silent.
I saw tenet in imax and still couldn't understand far too many important lines. And my biggest issue is that issue of not knowing whether a line is supposed to be able to be heard or not
Yeh, I found that confusion, even with headphones, made Tenet often sound messy and rough, rather than refined in some way Nolan intended. And its not like Nolan is creating a higher level of art by relying so muhc on music to create the feel of a scene. Seems honestly kinda lazy.
I know you mean that jokingly, but there might be something to it. I don't know who the sound editor is, or if he has an honest working relationship with Nolan, but it is not out of the question that when the sound editor tells Nolan, 'the dialogue can't be heard', Nolan just over rules him. He knows every word in the script anyway, so of course he can make out the words.
i feel like that scene where he's in the art safe room, the music overpowering the speech slowly was like showing us that whatever the guide was saying didn't matter at all, they wanted us to pay attention to the details that were shown instead of listening to what was said.
@@loganmedia4401because without the dialogue, they can’t show us that the character isn’t paying attention to the words he’s being told. It adds to the story telling to represent what the character is thinking at that time. Without it, it wouldn’t be as obvious.
Thank goodness Zimmer wasn't on the movie. Inception was great, but everything else he has done sounds the same. I do know a chap who went looking for composing work in Hollywood and on good authority he said Zimmer has a staff of writers. It explains the same-y-ness. All his staff are writing to a formula, more or less. The soundtrack to The Prestige was great too, so it's refreshing to hear another musical take on a Nolan film.
I think the dialogue in Interstellar and Dunkirk was a realism technique to make you feel more immersed in the scene; there's a lot of loud noises so naturally you should have a hard time hearing the pilots in Dunkirk or Tars and the car passengers in Interstellar. But in Tenet I don't know why they aren't trying to achieve realism or anything like that. The boat scene might make sense if they weren't wearing MICROPHONES THAT INTEND TO HELP EACH OTHER HEAR THEIR VOICES BETTER FOR THIS VERY REASON.
Even in those other examples, it still doesn't make much sense. Someone struggling to hear over the phone from a blaring helicopter, and the only sound the audience hearing is the blaring helicopter? Makes perfect sense. The director is telling you "look at how loud this is, nobody can hear anything, so neither can you." It doesn't detract from the scene, it adds to it. In the case of movies like Dunkirk, Interstellar, Tenet, etc, the deafening volume of "other sounds" that overpowers dialogue adds absolutely nothing. It actually DOES detract from the scene. The purpose of dialogue is to often to convey some kind of information. Yes, film can convey information in more ways than just dialogue (as seen by showing a character frustratingly try to hear over a phone while a helicopter is whirring in the background). But the way Nolan does it, it's like it's just thrown in for no reason. In all the other examples I've seen, it's a very clear, deliberate and artistic decision by the director. In the case of Nolan, it's like he does it just for shits and giggles?
@@spartan456 The phone scene didn't make sense because he was clearly responding to something. Not hearing anything at all as the audience is very unlikely. In fact, even if it was incomprehensible to the character, we should still hear that tiny drowned out voice from the phone. We should hear what the character is hearing, not having immersion broken like some first person camera lens flaring by making us feel like an invisible spectator standing right next to the guy. Logical thinking and common sense are getting harder and harder for an insane society.
There are also many places in the world where local language subtitles are added in cinemas. I saw Tenet with subtitles in a high end theatre and had no issue with understanding dialogue. Not saying it's good or bad.
@@deluulujee I saw it in theaters the first time and at my home theater a second time and if i watch it a third i can guarantee you id pick on on lines i couldn't understand before
I think it should also be remembered that in the mixing process, when they're listinging to a line 10 or 100 times, the people working on the film know what the characters are saying, so it's easier for them to distinguish what they say in the final product. For audiences listening to it for the first time, it's a different issue entirely and I don't think Nolan has yet grasped that.
@@MrBrownvp1 I'd think this is specifically stuff one would have to be able to understand and deal with in that job. Otherwise I have to assume that just about anybody can do those specialized jobs they get paid for if the entry bar is that low. It also seems self-centered to just conclude that the audience can understand unclear speech just because you know what is said. After all, it doesn't change the fact that it is unclear, and especially a sound editor has to have a refined perception of such things. I keep coming to the conclusion that as an untrained but thoughtful person I would be pretty good in so many different jobs. (But society isn't just meritocracy, especially not the movie industry.)
mixing for subpar cinemas is still a dumb idea. It's like saying Van Gogh should've used brighter colours so ppl can see his paintings in dimly lit galleries. An easy solution for Noaln's issue is running subtitles all the time. Easy. Also, I'm doing motorcycle lessons, and when you ride, it's really difficult to hear stuff through the helmet and engine noise and wind noise etc. And I think the boat scene in Tenet conveys the intensity of an extreme activity really well thanks to the dialogue being hard to hear. But yes, I did watch it with subtitles, so what do I know...
"They did a temporal pincer!" "A temporal pincer? What's that?" "That's when you HRGHHFFFFRRHRN and RUTINDMAIHDGHHH in order to BLURGBLURGHBLURCH!" "Oh, I see." On The Waterfront, it ain't.
If the movie can survive with them being replaced by bleeps, I guess it's OK. But you have to make it _clear_ that they're not meant to be understood - go _all the way_ with making them unhearable. Don't put them on the edge so the audience thinks they can get it if only they strain a bit more.
I watched Tenet 3 times in Showcase XPLUS - great 4K laser projector, and excellent speakers with crystal clear sound. The dialogue was incredibly difficult to understand and the repeat viewings did not make it easier. Why did I watch it so many times? I LOVED the score lol.
@4four4 I Did uderstand it, and even better, I understand physics, totally missing in this movie. There is no reverse entropy in a System that flows with a certain entropy, i the moment you watch a thing from the reverse System it becomes to embrace your "normal" entropy System. No science at all
That's because Bane's dialogue was mixed OVER everything else, making him seem super out of place in every scene. Like he's talking over the movie like a commentary voice over, instead of talking in the scene.
@@choo_choo_ I absolutely agree that my first time watching the movie the mixing made me laugh out loud and very confused. It sounds like bane is talking from another room!!! Especially in the airplane opening he sounds absolutely ridiculous
@@SageSSBM1 Same. I thought there was something wrong with the speakers, like he was coming from the wrong channel or something. To this day I have no clue what they were thinking making him sound like that. It bothers me on a fundamental level that they could hear it and think, "yep, this is some good mixing" when he's completely outside the mix.
That scene when the art guy is explaining the vault always seemed deliberate to me, like we're concentrating on R Pats thinking about the job and almost zoning out the detail cos he's too busy scoping the layout
in the movies, usually, a scene like that has a set up for a later pay off. it's explained how a certain alarm works, so that a character could later be seen figuring out how to avoid the alarm, and the audience would understand how it was done
Yeah, i just re-watched the entire scene and the snippet used was just very deceptively chosen. The entire scene involves audible dialogue in the planning stages, it is only that one little bit that you can't understand simply because the focus isn't on what he is saying. I checked the subtitles, and when you couldn't hear what he was saying, it's not like there were still subtitles... it literally just said something like (Neal {robs character} focuses on the vault.) I've seen the movie twice and have had no problem with the dialogue.
That part is blatantly implying that what the art guy is saying at those moments just aren't important, and Pattinson is more focused on the layout of the room
That's crazy, I never knew about this because, as a non native english speaker, I watch my movie with english subtitle. I thought I understood it clearly, but I didn't. You made me realise that I probably have a complete different experience than the people complaining about it. Thank you for all the amazing video you give us, you realy help expanding my perspective and knowledge about filmmaking.
Tenant was by far the worst Nolan movie I ever watched because of the sound. I genuinely couldn’t understand 90% of the movie so I got so bored because what is happening. The fact that is intentional is so stupid. I completely agree with this 9:18 It didn’t help much that the background noise they made louder than their voices was actually too loud. Gunshots would literally hurt my ears. I couldn’t imagine watching Tenant at home because I would have to keep turning the volume up and down and that is just frustrating.
@@k0lpA oh wow you thought you did something there. Here 🍪 Mean while they clearly had to fix the audio for Tenant after all the complaints and the director speaking on it so wasn’t just me.
@@AmiAki Nah I had same experience. Watched it when it came on TV. I'm a big sci-fi fan, but after a while I stopped really caring during this movie. I kept feeling like I'd missed something important, eventually I was like meh, whatever.
Honestly I really doubt Tenet would have made some colossal amount of money the way previous Nolan movies did. Yeah Tenet was good enough overall but the critical reception hasn’t been even close to something like the reception of Inception, TDK, Dunkirk, or even Interstellar. I really doubt this movie would have pulled numbers like those movies did
Might not have resurrected it but I was really grateful it released in my country on the big screen. Much better than the other movies that I had the option of seeing and really filled the hole that'd developed from not visiting theatres during lockdown
@@danielmashanic5738 Agreed but as a creator Nolan probably thought he'd made another good movie. And with a long runtime and a premise that unfolds itself on multiple viewings, it's possible it could have gained a strong following. I believe it could have been released this year, before Bond and the other big Hollywood movies, and pulled a profit and returned people to the theatre.
He didnt had control over this, he wanted to release it to a wider audience but the studio was unable to get theaters ready or the threaters were in areas with high amount of covid cases thus the local authorities stopping them from opening the threaters.
I mean I saw it in an imax theatre where it was “supposed” to be seen and I couldn’t hear shit so. I really enjoyed the movie though, it wasn’t as thought provoking as interstellar or inception in my opinion because it has to basically drip feed you the science and story to keep you from getting lost but I still thought it was super fun and enjoyable to watch. I was excited and waiting for the next thing to happen on the def of my seat the entire movie even if it wasn’t perfect.
Fun fact: Trainspotting had English subtitles when it was released in cinemas in the USA. Apparently US audiences found the Scottish accents too hard to understand.
That scene with Robert Pattinson is just beautiful, it reminds me of that feeling when you are just zoning out on something else and just slowly stop listening halfway into a conversation. It’s so good.
It really showed us what his character was really focusing on, which was what we were also supposed to be focusing on. As for the rest of Tenet - it was never a film that was meant to be watched only once.
@@Krondon-SSR I watched the movie in Taiwan and ended up relying on the Chinese (my third language) subtitles to at least try and understand much of the dialog.
I feel like sometimes people who get a little too into any particular artform begin to conflate the fact that something is a deliberate and unconventional decision with it being a good decision. The fact that it was on purpose doesn't make it suck less.
Although the reverse can be said too. Just because a person thinks it sucks for being a creative decision that doesn't "strictly" make it a good approach does not mean it really sucks. Both sides get into defending art forms. Is the dialogue hard to hear at points? Yes. Was it a bad or sucky decision? Hard to say because there are people who like it as they feel this approach tried to mimic how in real life people wearing masks are sort of hard to hear, for example. Is it an odd decision? Most likely. Does it make it difficult to understand parts of the story? Certainly because people have different levels of hearing. However, does the sound mixing block dialogue entirely to the point where you have to go read the script to see if there was information lost in the movie? Not really because it can still be sort of discernible. It was a chaotic decision on Nolan's part. That's what I think.
@@MM-hk4pb The mask audio makes sense, especially so if other people in the film have an equally hard time understanding him. it fails to make sense though if the audience cant understand it, but everyone else in the film can understand it just fine. Given the directors defense of "watch it in a expensive theater with the best audio, or suffer with a horrible experience in other theaters, but please keep buying tickets to see it, i need that money". If he really wanted to stick to his 'best experience' he would have not allowed the film in theaters with sub par audio. But he didnt do that. The guy is just a rich snob trying to get peoples money who doesnt care about anyone.
@@jessiejanson1528 Not to mention its blatantly elitist and snobby. it restricts the accessibility of the art and limits its scope too. Art should be viewable from as many points as possible. its just like if Dvinci made the Mona Lisa only viewable with special glasses that you have to be rich to buy. not everyone can afford IMAX experiences. if you want a "perfect" version make that separate and advertise the requirements.
Couldn’t understand a thing for large portions of the film. Same for friends and parents. Especially when Murphy or RDJ talked, I couldn’t hear 30-40% of what they says. It’s a shame, because it was a fantastic film and he didn’t have to do it.
@@didnever1202 Ahah I am French and was working in Germany this summer when Oppenheimer was released, my english is correct and I understood most of the dialogues but sometimes I was completely lost bc of the accent of some characters. (Now imagine watching memento/inception in your non-native langage x))) )
In the Freeport scene, it makes perfect sense because Neil himself is Not paying full attention to what the guy is saying. He's actually casing the place in order to break in. So the dialogue fades into the background.. but then there's other scenes where that shouldn't really happen.
Yes, that's one of the few Tenet scenes where it's done well. We know it's done well because it's clear you're not supposed to hear. And that's what makes all the difference: The audience knows what the creator is intending.
Next time Nolan should film his movies in a dark room where you can barely see what's going on, as well as muffled dialogue. That would be true artistic creativity of the highest caliber.
@@BeyondmyselfIsrael The hilarious part is you would never tell someone they have to be a five star chef to know it tastes like someone literally sharted on their meatballs.
In Sin City there is a word that someone shouts that is vital for the story but you can't hear it because the other character in that scene couldn't hear it, it is later revealed what that word was and in that moment the main character realises they fucked up and that it could have been avoided provided he had understood what was being shouted at him previously
So a film crew to film the film crew? So what if there's a film crew to film the crew filming the film crew filming the film? And then there's a film crew filming the film crew filming the film who's filming the crew who's filming the film. THEN you have a film crew to film the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew filming the film. AND THEN you have a film crew whose fil................
@@skakid0 No just film crew shooting at mirrors which only reflect themselves so theyre filming themselves filming themselves. FIlm crew shooting themselves the movie.
I had no problems with Interstellar, Dunkirk, or The Dark Night Rises dialogue being difficult to understand. Because it made sense that because Bane was wearing a mask, and TARS was in a different spacecraft about to enter a black hole. There is usually a good in universe reason why the dialogue can be tough to hear. Its immersive. The problem with TENET is that 99% of the time you cant hear the dialogue, its because of the score. The score is cool, but considering its non-diegetic it has no real reason to effect the dialogue, and you miss interesting stuff.
Tenet was the first film in a long time where a few things happened to me. 1) I fell asleep and 2) I had no idea what the hell was going on and 3) I had to constantly fiddle with the volume because some things were very quiet and some things were incredibly loud. It was a very annoying experience.
@acktually aintaddingup To be fair, I was extremely tired at the time and probably would have fallen asleep to any movie. That being said, I never fall asleep during movies I have never seen before.
I never had any issue with any other movie and I am a fan of Nolan. I was really excited about Tenet but it kept getting difficult to understand what they were saying any why was someone doing what they did. I lost my interest and was really disappointed.
i think the dialogue mixing was done really well in interstellar. when coop talks to his daughter in that low voice it sounds more sweet an intimate. tars sounding like that thru the black hole makes total sense
I believe Nolans films are not so much about the story, but more about the feeling the story evokes. And I believe you don't have to "get" 100% of the story to feel it. Actually a diffuse feeling of wonder might strengthen your experience, at least for me it did with Tenet.
By keeping his films mixed only for top of the line theaters, Nolan is cutting out a lot of future viewers of his movies who would discover them in future generations, but won't stick with them because they can't hear what the hell is going on. I appreciate that he wants to concentrate on offering the best theatrical experience possible, but a majority of his potential audience doesn't even have access to a top of the line theater.
You don't need top of the line equipment you need good equipment. Audio has been horrendously affected by the loudness wars, Leading to marketing selling more products than quality. People splash hundreds of dollars on the recent sony xm model whilst they could get a headphone with vastly better sound quality for 1/5 of the price. The problem isn't price and never has been but the lack of knowledge. You don't need a top of the line speaker set up to hear the voices in Tenet, you just need to avoid terrible soundbars made by brands that are more invested in marketing than audio! Hell, most mid range tvs have better speakers these days than the soundbars they are advertised with because there's a format war and so more care goes into TV speaker arrays than the dedicated audio products the big brands try to shift!
It really is the dumbest method I ever heard. Dialogue is pure communication. In real life If you can't hear someone because of a loud noise, then they either talk louder or not at all. Why not capture a scene of no talking if dialogue is not vital to you. Or lots of screaming if you want to express LOUD NOISES
I'm hearing this dialog for the first time here in this video. I'm American but note that even with a thick Scottish accent i could hear the first time, "Well then we better clear the room before the bomb" something something. On the fourth listening i made out "goes off". So i suspect that a Scottish person wouldn't have had trouble. Interestingly, we had the same issue in another scene at 2:44. Again i haven't seen this film or ever heard this clip. Scottish accent: Eh, i'm goin' down. English accent: I'm on him, bail out Heard it all the first time. The Bane guy in the mask, again i discerned the first half on the first hearing, and it took three more hearings before i could get the rest of it ("of this city to the people"). So. I think it's partly an arrogant director who loses focus after listening to the first half of a line, and partly a new generation of arrogant listeners who don't care to understand anyone who's not exactly like they are. The astronaut conversation about the robot, i had no real trouble discerning. The catamaran scene, i couldn't make out more than three words and still haven't been able to. The security discussion i got more than half of, even though most commenters are saying they couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I can sympathize with a reasonably smart director who's mad because he perceives that his younger viewers are intentionally ignorant and mentally lazy. But i can also sympathize with viewers who accurately perceive that the director is retaliating by intentionally mucking it up worse than he otherwise would. Of course, if a film is simply garbage, as most are today, it hardly detracts that you can't hear the dialog. In fact, if i'm being "forced" to sit through it, it might be a plus. 😆
@@no_rubbernecking I understand what you mean but I don't think being unused to a Scottish accent and therefore having more difficulty understanding it makes a person "arrogant".
@@nvexe8822 You are right. I didn't mean to suggest that someone who is unused to it is arrogant, any more than i'm calling a deaf person ignorant for not having heard it before. Simply that there is a generational divide with people on one side more likely to embrace things that are different and a newer scene that tends to shun them, therefore being ignorant by choice. Of course there are many exceptions to the rule... people who instinctively are better but who maybe just haven't yet had the exposure to something. I mean we all have things we haven't experienced. So there's no shame in that. The problem is to ignore intentionally when something different comes around, without giving a chance. That's all i meant and i'm 45... people under 40 today tend to be more prone to this issue. And it struck me that this is one cause (just one) of the kind of disagreement we're seeing here. So IMO the director is not 100% wrong, if i'm correctly seeing what his intended point is.
The biggest irony is, I can hear the sound better at my home compared to the theatre - where Nolan wants you to watch it. You're doing a great job of getting people back to theatres, Nolan.
I second his conclusion here. The problem with voice being a 'sound effect' is the audiences aren't necessarily able to know whether they've missed out on something crucial or not. The film-maker might know, but if the emotions you're eliciting in your audience in a climatic scene are confusion, annoyance and worry, then you've probably done something wrong.
@@oldskool4572 no he's not there are no layers he's just pompous. What layers are you peeling back when you can't hear anything because wind and music were pushed to 11 but dialogue is at a 3? Ah must be windy out?!?
yup, i agree, you think you've missed something then you lose focus from the movie. plus his movie are quite heavy so you are always trying to work out whats going on.
So people, for decades, complain about how there's too much of a difference between the sound levels of dialogue and sound effects, so much so that sometimes it is literally painful and Nolan looks at this and goes "you know what? I can turn this issue into a real problem"
@@thatoneguychad420 Pretty much not a real issue there for me. I got an app that automatically normalizes the volume for me so dialogue is usually very clear on the devices I installed the app on.
In Interstellar, I think it works. The shuddering of the space ships interior realistically drowns out the dialogue that's broadcast over radio which is mostly just garble and quindar tones anyway
Then again, if you miss the line about it costing them 51 years that is a hugely consequential bit of exposition that is completely and totally missed because of creative decision. If you're ok with people not hearing that, why include it in the movie at all?
Sadly, while mixing things to only work with "top end" cinemas, Nolan is also ignoring another important aspect - People with hearing problems. Many people have mild to moderate hearing problems, which aren't otherwise an issue to people. Nolan is effectively deliberately excluding them from the cinimatic experience. Fair enough, making things specifically difficult to hear for a choice. General dialogue should be audible.
I saw it on HBO Max and had to have my tv volume up to almost the max level and still had to read subtitles - which are tiny and don't stand out enough on HBO Max.
@@kimberlylabrec246 Yeah, I noticed I had to turn my TV volume up to 42 to hear the dialogue, & I usually go up to 22. So the score about blew me outta the room, & then my hubby walked in wondering what I was doing! lol
A big difference between the examples you give and Nolan's clips is that for the examples, the sound obscuring the voice is diegetic. Not only the audience doesn't hear, but the other people in the scene are affected too. This makes it super clear that it is intended. In Nolan's case, a lot of the time the sounds obscuring the voices are non-diegetic, it's the music. The characters around are also part of the dialogue and aren't showing signs of not listening/hearing, which also makes the audience feel left out. It's okay in a movie like Dunkerque, as the action is more important to convey the plot than the dialogues themselves, but in a movie where dialogues are an integral part of the plot, it has to have a clear line between what is supposed to be heard and not heard. I think the scene with Robert Pattinson on the contrary is quite well made, as you can seem him look around, the camera focuses on what he is looking at, not the person talking, so the feeling of him not really listening to what the person is saying and instead focusing on whatever he's focusing on works brilliantly.
Yeah, I genuinely dont understand anyone's beef with the Pattison scene. People are misapplying their critique to that scene because of other scenes in the movie where one could make a reasonable argument that the sound is negatively affecting the scene. The Pattison scene is not one of these instances, and it's made very clear.
One of the greatest things I learned in my cinema classes I took as electives were Diegetic or not, and how much more story can be conveyed based on where the sound is coming from.
When I watched Tenet the first time I was so damn confused. He’s taken the muddy dialogue thing way too far with Tenet, especially when so much of the dialogue is crucial to understanding the story. The scientist chick at the beginning was borderline mumbling.
I actually left during the sailboat scene because I couldn't hear any of the dialogue and didn't want to spoil anything by seeing the rest without really understanding what was happening. I had thought it was just the theater's sound mix being screwed up lol. Turns out that wasn't really the case 😫
@@frcShoryuken when I watched tenet I was just barely able to understand enough to keep up with the plot until the end where all I could get from what was happening was what was happening on the boat
I appreciate when creators consider how their audience will experience their art. For example, Dave Grohl said about mixing his records that he would get them how he wanted them in the studio and then listen to them on crappy car stereos to be sure they sound good there too, because that's how most people will listen. He acknowledges that not everyone can enjoy his music on studio quality speakers and I would appreciate if Nolan would acknowledge that not everyone can watch his movies in a perfectly aligned Imax theater.
"he would get them how he wanted them in the studio and then listen to them on crappy car stereos to be sure they sound good there too" Every professional checks their mix on shitty speakers. If your mix engineer doesn't do this, get a better engineer.
This is the way. If you're making art for the sake of making art, fine whatever. Do what you want. You want your characters to all wear masks and mumble, fine. Your piece. But if you want it to be experienced by people, if you want to share your art, then don't be surprised and act like the people have the problem when you make weird, exclusionary, and elitist decisions. I do NOT need to be so far up Nolan's asshole that I know what he had for breakfast, that's not how I enjoy art.
The thing is, I am totally fine with Nolan's logic behind the way he wants his sound mixed. But if it's only intelligible in a THX certified IMAX theatre, then he shouldn't sell his film to theatres that aren't THX certified IMAX theatres. And yet he does. So to me he doesn't have a point when he says it's meant for perfectly aligned THX IMAX theatres. It's just bad sound design the way it's done now.
I listened to a Fred Again interview where he said he listens to his songs on his iPhone speakers before bothering to try and finish engineering them, because if they don't sound good on an iPhone, then it's not a good song, and a bad song can't be fixed with good production. To be honest, I think the main problem with Tenet isn't the sound mixing, but it's just not a good movie. About halfway through it I was wondering why I was bothering to care about any of it. The sound mixing was annoying, but if the plot worked as a movie, it wouldn't have mattered that much.
I sort of like that he doesn’t consider the audience. I have to go out of my way to travel to a kinda far away theatre to see his movies. Makes them more special to me. He’s the only director I go to the theatres for bcz it actually feels worth the money Also, you can almost identically recreate a theatre experience with a $100 phone, a piece of cardboard, and cheap headphones; if there’s no imax theatres near you lol
I am hard of hearing, so actually, I can't hear the difference between Nolan's movies and any other movies. Or people speaking in real life. It's all muffled. So I guess I'll start using Tenet to tell people why accessibility is so important, everywhere.
I am hard of hearing as well, but seemingly not to the same degree as you. Most things and people are clear enough if I pay attention to them, but if I'm not focusing directly on a sound it could slip into the background much like everything else for me. That being said, I have to watch many movies with subtitles in order to properly understand them and a lot of that comes down to the mixing. It's frustrating for me, so I can't even imagine what it must be like for people who are even harder of hearing than me. In cases like Nolan's films, it feels like he's outright ignoring entire audiences and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
I feel the same way whenever I go.... I mean, went... to a theatre and the volume was set to maximum for the commercials and trailers at the beginning. Like, it's not going to make me want to buy a car or drink a coke or watch Garbage Man 2: the Revenge any more if my ear drums are bleeding.
I absolutely loved opening action scene of Tenet and the loud mixing. But it lost its effect fast as the loudness never really ended. If everything is loud, nothing is loud.
The whole movie just felt very off to me. There was so much stuff constantly being introduced that nothing really grabbed me, it all just flew by. The exposition was bad, yes, but it also felt very cold, with no connection to the characters.
Another big problem is pacing. He just simply does not have the feel for it. And that problem is in every film of his. Another is also his self-seriousness, but i guess some people like it, for me, it makes me cringe. Oh well.
@@williamtseng yeah unfortunately Denzel’s son has 2% of his charisma and acting talent at best, so the 007 model doesn’t work at all, good observation though.
@@williamtseng I understand what you're saying, and Nolan is my fav filmmaker by far so I typically love just about anything he does - but imo that's why this movie didn't work for me like most of his others, 007 movies like you mentioned have very little character development & connection but they largely work because of the charisma of Connery and some of the other leads, and you could argue the more recent ones have less of that but are still benefitting from the 007 franchise name and what came before. The Protagonist didn't have any of this charisma or acting chops for lack of a better phrase, but without that or strong character development/connection everything just feels empty. Compare that to Interstellar or Inception which had all of the above and imo that's why this feels empty despite being one of the most technically impressive films I think I've ever seen. Interstellar was one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. Think if we put Leo or McConaughy or Denzel (or even Pattinson) into the role of The Protagonist and the movie gets about 25% better, at least imo. I know he was cast for his athleticism and physicality but idk to me that's probably the worst reason to cast someone unless they're playing Hulk Hogan in a biopic or something haha.
Watching at home makes it so bad because often trying to make the audio the right volume is a pain in the ass because you cant actually hear the talking if you make sure the audio wont be heard 3 blocks away
Exactly!! Sometimes I have to watch a movie with the remote in my hand the whole time, so I can turn it up in dialogue scenes and then try to turn it down in action scenes before my windows get blown out. Having sound-trigger anxiety or tinnitus would be absolute hell watching this
@@setheus tinnitus is also really bad with tinnitus scenes (usually after grenades in movies) painful to hear that ringing and tinnitus ringing at the same time
Having never seen Tenet, I feel like I can understand what Nolan is getting at when Robert Pattinson's character is being led around the vault or wherever they are. The music drowns out the attendant because the character isn't listening, he's looking and making his own judgements. I'm unsure of what justification there is for these other instances, though.
there's none! absolutely none. big scenes where characters are meant to be explaining plot to you are just garbled nonesense. but also please watch tenent bc it's a lot of fun!!! (just watch with subtitles maybe....)
There's very few bits of exposition in Tenet that are actually necessary. There's an explanation of inversion and an explanation of the villain's motivations, apart from that the dialogue we dont hear is mostly unimportant conversation or a character saying what you see (ie when the woman pushes the guy off the boat she's essentially saying das verdanya, but we can see the intent on camera). I personally loved Tenet, its a top 5 Nolan film imo (i'd say 1) dark knight, 2) interstellar, 3) Inception, 4) Prestige, 5) Tenet).
I first saw Tenet in the 70mm IMAX in London and I missed a lot of dialogue in scenes where it was genuinely important. Tenet is the first Nolan movie where I’ve had this problem, the mix in Interstellar and Dunkirk worked perfectly for me but Tenet was problematic
I saw it at BFI IMAX, which should presumably be one of if not the best cinema sound system in the UK, and I still don't know most of what was said in the catamaran scene. Perhaps my hearing's just not up to snuff.
I viewed Tenet in an IMAX theater in Michigan. I agree that the dialogue throughout most of the movie was difficult to understand. Dialogue in the same theater with other big budget movies was excellent.
This reminds me of the final shot of "Magnolia" where Aimee Mann's "Save Me" plays over the dialouge being spoken by John C. Reilly's cop character but the camera focuses on the drug addicted Claudia played by Melora Walters.... it was first time i realized the technique was used to show her characters intense emotional arc and finally end in a "hopeful" manner with the focus solely on her facial movements but i remember being confused by this choice as a young teen until i was older when i accepted Magnolia as my favorite film of all time.... in Nolan films, the tenchnique feels more chaotic, like its used during scenes where, as a viewer, I'm trying to understand what's happening and it adds to the disorienting confusion but i can see why he does it.... i have noticed it upsets my parents and siblings though
I've noticed over the years that a looooot of movies and shows seem to have this weird audio mixing where the music is super loud and the dialogue is much softer. It makes it so I constantly have to turn the volume up and down; it's beyond annoying. I have no idea if this is a recent thing, or it's been a problem for a long time now, and I've only just started noticing.
Often cinemas are much to loud. It's cool today. Overstimulus of senses is the new dope. In Yoga tradition it is called Rajas. Fast cuts. Low attention span. Instant reward. To me this is a part of this tik tok mentality fast, bigger, quicker, more, overdoese... LOUDER. My grandma even complains about loud music in ARD crime movies 😂 The voice is clear as anything to me there. LOL Most modern day movies have far to many cuts to enjoy them in my opnion. I love the Andor oder Space Oysee 2001 speed a lot. I liked Interstellar, but I did not make it over 30 minutes with tenet. Didn't get me at all. I also disliced inception for being that "deep" with 3 cuts a second, there was no movie left to me. Might be creative, but it heavly suffers from this hyperactive problem of modern media. And therefore I dare to dislike it. Even Matrix 1 or Dark City shot in a much better, clearer, slower way. Both Masterpieces in my opinion. Would be funny to count cuts of Matrix 1 and Inception and Tenet. A cuts per minute value should be in each good critique.
@@hellerart I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but we're not really talking about the same thing here when it comes to over-use of cuts and just poor sound mixing. All I'm talking about is the fact that, to hear the dialogue, I sometimes have to go deaf in the next scene when the music comes back...
@@RenegadeVile Yes I see the same spiritual source in both problems. Modern Media delivers a overdose. Like drugs. In most cinemas I hear me ears humming after leaving. But the same with Discos... Yes it is this way because dialogue is often normal loudness and explosions and music are 3x as load. Maybe this is the real difference between a bomb and a voice... strange mixing. Yes probably I got over the top with my comment, but I percieve it this way. And I am really sad Andor is too slow to a lot of people.
The seem to go heavy in for the low tones as well, which sometimes makes dialogue sound like someone mumbling from across the room. It's like trying to listen to someone else's conversation at another table in a restaurant. It's even worse if there's music, because like you said, they tend to mix it louder, plus a lot of soundtracks heavy on the same low frequency notes as the dialogue so it turns the entire soundscape into mush.
Imagine as an interviewer repeating this process back to him everytime you ask him a question by also playing a loud sound effect that drowns out your question as you ask it and then you just look at him like he is an idiot for not responding to you... I bet he would get annoyed really fucking quick.
Producer to Nolan: “Sir it seems nobody understands what the hell is going on in this movie. Nolan: “Is the soundtrack good?” Sound editor: “You bet!!!” Nolan: “Well then crank that $hit up! Solved!”
Producer: sir it seems no one can understand what the hell is going on in this movie. Nolan: mwah mwah mwah Producer: what Nolan: I said I am the producer. Which is the problem.
100% agree on your final conclusion re: Nolan's artistry. I've seen most of his films (I'm missing Momento, Dunkirk, and Oppenheimer), and I've only actually thought 2 were thoroughly enjoyable AND top quality. I find his writing/storytelling sub-par for his status, but I think he gets away with it because he really excels at the parts of storytelling that he's good at. I feel like at this point his career has been so successful that he feels he can get away with obeying his ego and not necessarily make the best decisions for his craft.
i thought i was struggling to follow the plot because i couldn't freakin hear the dialogue so i rewatched it and realised i was struggling to follow the plot because i can't hear nolan's voice from so far up his own ass
Frankly, i think this also goes to show that hes a massive snob. There is absolutely no reason he couldnt do the sound in two ways, one for the 70mm imax with perfect audio systems that cant be heard in other theaters, and another version just for the other theaters where the audio can be heard there. Him avoiding such a simple solution to bring his film to people to enjoy can only mean he doesnt want people to enjoy it unless they can afford to go a 70mm imax theater. and for the record, i had no issue with the audio choices in his other movies though sometimes certain dialog gets drowned out a bit too much. something to consider, if a character is talking to someone and they can hear them, we should be able to as well unless like in tenat the person is ignoring what someone is saying so even they cant hear them. it may ultimately come down to "hes made some good movies and some bad movies and while this technique can be useful, he can sometimes be bad at using it." not every director is good at everything and he just wants to pretend hes amazing and knows what hes doing. also worth considering, directors have an important role, but their job isnt the entire movie, the script and actors are just as important. Some of his audio choices are great, but realistically... is he really even bringing that much to the table? if another director had made these movies would they have been worse or better? Hopefully he learns from all the people crapping on his poor choices, but considering hes a snob, that wouldnt even happen even if he stopped beign hired and people stopped seeing his films, hes the type of person that would blame the audience for being too poor to see his movie in a imax theater.
@@jessiejanson1528 writing 5 paragraphs because you're seething that you can't afford a luxury good and then shitting on the creator. I'm glad bitter small people like you won't be sitting next to me at the premiere.
Possibly one cause of the situation is that Nolan knows what the actors are saying. So when he mixes the dialogue under the other sounds, he can still understand what they're saying. Then he legitimately wonders why we normals can't hear the dialogue - it's obvious to *him* what the actors are saying.
@@lyndonlives638 I never said anything about being infallible, nobody's truly infallible, but the type of mistake u r associating with Nolan's work is too rookie and irrational for a Director of his level of experience, knowledge, and stature. It's like saying Michael Phelps, by mistake forgot to wear/bring his swimwear in an Olympic event, the chances of that happening is almost negligible (the only possibility of that happening is if someone actually gets dementia or some mental illness like that). Besides, what the OP mentioned about the method of how the dialog, BGM and other scores are mixed and released as final product is so wrong that even I, who have zero experience in film making, can call BS. Either you assumed that it's ONLY the Director who mixes the dialogue along with other sounds and checks whether everything's properly audible himself, or you assumed that the whole post production team, mixer, sound engineer, Editor, Director, Producer and literally every single member of the team was aware of every single dialog in the film and hence they knew and understood what the actors were saying even under the high background scores, BOTH OF WHICH IS WRONG.
I first watched this at a cinema in France with french subtitles, I don’t speak french well and so I couldn’t easily follow the subtitles when the dialogue was inaudible. I was pretty miserable the whole film because I just didn’t understand what was happening; I couldn’t hear half the movie. It really put me off watching his films in the future because it was so infuriating. Mixing for only the best cinemas puts the majority of people out of your target audience, it’s just snobbery imo
I agree with you. At first, I tought this was a creative and artisitic choice but in fact, he is litteraly snobbing the people that can't afford a "good" theater.
@@mcdeezyofficial what? that is "artistic vision" is only meant for the best material? wich exclude most movie theaters (and people)? I thought tha's what was discussed in the video AND in the example above from Ellbat who described it as "I was pretty miserable the whole film", but hey, what do I know.
@@showdaKOs he isn’t snobbing at people that can’t afford a good theater that’s dumb asf obviously he wants the best quality audio so he’d optimize it to the best speakers you don’t call musicians snobby cuz they mix their songs with thousand dollar sound systems and not iphone speakers
This is the same problem with Oppenheimer. Ever since Inception, he has been obsessed with loud soundtrack along with dialogue which has an echo feel to it. Nolan ignores it which is really annoying.
Yep. Theater I went to for Oppenhiemer the dialog was unintelligable, way too many times. Annoying as hell, and very distracting, throwing the viewer out of the story. Horrible story telling technical and art. Can't understand it, if it can't communicate the story. Maybe it's a statement about modern society. We can't hear each other, and aren't listening to each other, so it doesn't matter what people are saying anymore. IDK, just a random thought.
“It’s his right to make creative decisions, and it’s the audiences right to stop going if they don’t like those decisions. And it’s the critics’ and everyone’s right to discuss how effective these decisions are.” Bravo. +1 Subscriber!
Yes. This. I wish there was a better term for this, but in writing class the professor taught us the creative principle that "The reader is always right." And that principle applies to many endeavors in life.
Making dialogue that isn't supposed to be heard is fine, but in alot of these scenes it's just bad. Not only because of different theatres, but also because some people just can't hear as good as others. Due to an operation of my right eardrum when I was four, I have sometimes troubles understanding things comming from that side. It's not that bad and I don't notice it most of the time, only when listening to quiet dialougue on top of other sound effects or music. Plus English also isn't my first language, so I have to listen closely when they explain stuff with lots of unusual words anyways. So when I watched Tenet I eventually gave up on trying to understand the dialogue. I mean you can understand most of the movie without any dialogue, but it makes you feel like you missed out on half the movie.
I feel ya. Some childhood problems have damaged my hearing as well. I often tell people - "how tenet sounded to you, is how the whole world sounds to me every day"
If you can’t hear or don’t understand English go to a showing with subtitles. Basically all big theatres have them. Dumbing down movie dialogue to avoid ‘unusual words’ would be stupid.
People in other countries, who watched the movie with subtitles be like: “I’m sorry, is this some sort of English-speaking problem that I am too foreign to understand?”
I also watch the movie with subtitles on as a non-native speaker. Tenet has one of my favorite audio mixes, I play it to show off my new home theater to my friends. I consider those creative choices as realistic choices and it only increases immersive feeling.
I saw Tenet on IMAX. Huge problems with some dialogue scenes. Then I saw it in a standard theatre, and the sound mix was just the same. Even with my knowledge of the film by that point, I still had issues guessing what they were saying. 3rd viewing at home was much better, and made use of the sub track too. I love Nolan but this isn’t the way to make films.
As a native Portuguese speaker, I am used to subtitles and therefore this experience is almost alien to me in the sense that, to me, Nolan films are always awesome because I have never known Nolan without the subs
I’ve taken audio postproduction classes, and we were told that if you’re gonna mix for high-end surround sound you HAVE TO MAKE SURE ITS STEREO COMPATIBLE. Even if you’re mixing for a 20.2 surround system, there’s tools that make it pretty easy to convert that to basic stereo so that’s not a good excuse. There’s artistic decisions then there’s bad decisions.
The point is that the high end mix should not be compromised for the clarity of the stereo rendering. That's what Nolan's team has decided. Remember that whatever you learn in classes is just the beginning of your journey. Cinematography "rules" really are guidelines, and they are all meant to be broken once mastered.
@@dsp4392 well in this case, with the movie being shown at any kind of theater, if you MUST make the main mix so fine tuned that it wouldn't work on stereo, it should have a mix available that would, accessibility should at least be taken into consideration at least to a reasonable degree, especially if your mix ruins the experience for the majority of your audience
Yeah... Cinema is a bussiness. If you make a product that disparages the majority of your consumer base, that is certainly an artistic choice you've the right to make. But it will cost you respect, reputation, and capital. And you'll have no right to complain about it. He can do what he wants, but understandably there are consequences.
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"Nolan, people are complaining they can't understand Bane."
"I'll give them something to complain about."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
[inaudible]
]elbiduani[
"?naem ot desoppus taht s'tahW"
".tuoba nialpmoc ot gnihtemos meht evig ll'I"
".enaB dnatsrednu t'nac yeht gninialpmoc era elpoep, naloN"
@@88fibonaccisequence I read this tomorrow
@@LuisSierra42 legend.
lol
"Nolan ,people are complaining they can't understand Bane."
"I'll give them something to complain about."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
[inaudible]
"Dialogue is a sound effect"
*super loud score plays whilst people talk in a quiet building*
That score was playing inside his head the whole time lol
I went to see this in the cinema. I should not have gotten high for this one. The score was way too intense.
Makes sense to me. Especially in the Freeport it's exactly that.
To me it represented the tension he was under in this scene and when his attention was on the surrounding and when he focused on the words of the presenter. I feel like I might have missed somehting because the character might not have payed attention and I am in the same position of knowledge that he is, I know as much as he does.
You just had to pick the one scene in which the he actually used a valid technique. You're not supposed to hear all the dialogue in that scene.
A wise man once told me, "they won't find the plot holes if they can't hear them"
Listen
Oh man that's too good
Haha Tenet is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
@@jetnavigator probably you haven't understand 1% of the movie
@@f.b.i2132 I can't understand 99% of your grammar
Short answer: “Because Christopher Nolan wants us to suffer.”
Some men, just want to watch the world burn.
@@kylerashby1997 Well damn, it was all foreshadowing to this, he really did live long enough to see himself become the villain....
Nolan's next film should absolutely be a Beethoven biopic
@@maxmakesfilms69 And have LUDWIG Goransson return to compose the music for that score as well ;-))
Pretty much what I thought when I saw the title too.
Tenet. The only movie that I thought "wow, I need subtitles" in the cinema.
Same. Not a fan
@@HeK. I heard about the dialogue problem beforehand and requested close caption device in my theater which they supplied. It helped a bit.
@@futuretrunks6461 Did the same. Had no problems understanding the story and was really thankful that those devices existed. I watched 2 minutes of the film without the CC device before walking out of the theater and asking for the device for me and my parents (who want subtitles as much as possible) and was so thankful that I was able to understand the movie on the first go
In Poland we have subtitles to almost every cinema movie. ;)
But i understand your point.
Same here.
I’m not a native English speaker, but I’m fluent and can usually understand everything, but after watching tenet in the cinema I was getting worried that my English got worse😂 I’m relieved to hear that I wasn’t the only one wishing for subtitles in the cinema
Haha, no it's not you. Nolan is out of control, somebody stop him.
Lmao same...
same omg :,)))
Lmao, same. I dislike watching english movies with subtitles, but this one was just another level.
Same. When I watched Interstellar as a non-native speaker with my British family I thought I must have lost my ability to understand English (and I have a BA in it like whaaat). Then I though it was Matthew McConnaughy‘s (whatever his name is) intense mumbling. I normally never put subtitles on but for all Nolan movies I do now.
Nolan does a great job at making 9/10 of his audience feel clinically deaf.
Its just in english. If you watch tenet in german you understand every Dialogs.
@@BenutzernameXY That's likely because the German dubbing cast and coordinator did not know or understand that Nolan intended to have those bits of dialogue muffled to emphasize the loudness of the scene. Of course, IRL, I'd ask a character to repeat themselves, even if bullets are flying at my head. If I don't get the message, there's no point in taking more risks as a character in the film.
I wonder if in German culture, they would also ask the person speaking to repeat themselves. lol
Dunkirk gunshots made me think I' m deaf.
Im part deaf and thats exactly how it feels lmaoo
that time i thought my speaker is broke
If Nolan only wants his films to be accessible in the best quality theaters, he should make sure his contracts state his films will only be viewed in those theaters. No mediocre theaters, no streaming, no blu ray. Otherwise he is stealing from his audience - because selling a ticket or permitting home viewing implies that the audience will be able to experience the movie - the WHOLE movie.
Or at least provide training and/or the means for 'lesser' theaters to properly maintain and/or upgrade their equipment.
@@DustinGlendinning I can only speak for the small local cinema I work at but in my experience it's rarely anything like training that's needed, it's the incredibly expensive specific equipment that even most chain cinema's can't afford to have as standard in every screen.
It's just never normally necessary, I've seen glitches and stuff where the sounds gone wrong and something needed to be fixed but Tenent and Interstellar are the only films where I've ever had the experience of customers coming out to complain about the sound when it was actually playing exactly as it was supposed too. I mean sure we don't have the most top of the line equipment but we don't have shitty cheap stuff either, and we are the only cinema available around so our customers can't just choose to see things in IMAX or whatever. I kinda don't hate the idea of making films with the express intention of them being seen on the big screen; my continued career depends on cinemas, I'm a big fan of them in general! But this level of snobbery means that MOST people seeing Nolan's films aren't getting that expensive specialist experience he's decreed is all important. Again, just imo, but the importance of the cinema is about the experience of the whole thing, it's going with friends, getting popcorn, being stuck in a dark room with a big screen- the things that make cinema markedly different to watching a film at home shouldn't be reduced to an exclusive experience only the lucky or the rich can take part in. Honestly I'm a fan of a few of Nolan's films but some of the stuff I've seen and heard him saying this last year has really soured me. I'd never call myself a fan of his in general, and I'll certainly never appreciate him talking about the "importance of cinemas" when it clear to me as someone with years of experience in one that he doesn't actually care about the experience of the average cinema-goer at all.
It's a bit like making a video game that's defective on "current gen" consoles, just ask CDPR how that worked out for them.
This.
Lol wow what a guy making movies no one can see
Might as well not make a movie at all
Sometimes it makes sense to not hear the dialogue. The tenet scene is a great example where RPatz' character is checking out the security systems and you cant hear the other dude speaking at all, it's almost mute. This is fine, the shots are telling us the story and showing us that he isn't listening anyway, he is too busy glancing around and casing the joint.
Where it is criminal is when we have two characters talking to each other as the focus of the scene and we can't understand what they're saying.
For what it's worth, I saw both Interstellar and Tenet at the same theater. I never had any problems understanding Interstellar's dialogue, while Tenet was so unintelligible that I actually came away with a fundamentally incorrect idea of the motivations of at least two characters because I so badly misheard what they were saying (which was corrected later when I watched it at home with closed captions).
So if he's tuning the experience for only high-end theaters, it seems like his definition of which theaters "count" as high-end are getting increasingly exclusive.
I watched Tenet in one of those really nice high-end theatres, because my friend worked there, like one of the ones where you pay $30 for a ticket. Still couldn't hear anything, was totally lost the whole time because the dialogue was totally lost in the "background music".
Damn 30 dollars is too much? Just bought tickets for Oppenheimer in imax for around 30 dollars in India
@@Huuuuuuuuuuuu107 yeah I would consider it pretty expensive - the IMAX cinema I go to has $7AUD tickets
@@Huuuuuuuuuuuu107in england you can get a cinema ticket for 4 pounds (something like 5 dollars)
"Background Dialogue"
@@hyperfeen wow you get $7 tickets???? In aus??? where do you live that has an IMAX with prices that low because I need to move there
Tenet is a good example of a film that would be much better with a different director without having to explain it afterwards.
[Slight spoilers for Tenet] In Tenet, the scene of being shown around the freeport was effective and well done. It not only stops the audience from paying attention to the wrong things, but also helps immerse us in the perspective of Pattinson's character and what they're focussing on. However, in conjunction with that scene they're talking about the rest of the plan and on my first watch I missed them talking about the gold with any clarity. It was then very confusing when there was gold on the plane and for some reason it was being thrown off. Tenet is a film that is conceptually very challenging to comprehend, and as such much of the dialogue talking about inversion and the algorithm are essential to get a grasp on the plan and the stakes. When Nolan makes it hard to know what the plan is, it's hard for the audience to know if something is going wrong, so they will tend to assume what's happening is all according to the characters' plan. When Nolan makes it hard to know what the stakes are, there are dramatic moments that should have a lot of weight, but the audience doesn't perceive them as important because no one knows what's going on or why it matters. On my first watch, I hadn't caught why it was important that Sator not die too early, so when Elizabeth killed him it had little impact for me because I hadn't caught why it mattered. If Nolan is going to refuse to at least release a second "substandard" theatrical mix for his films, I think the best thing for people to do is wait for the home release and watch with subtitles.
100%. So satisfying when people are able to articulate so clearly the exact same feelings I had but which I struggle to put into words myself.
Nothing in this movie is complicated, anyone with average intelligence can comprehend every single thing that takes place, and idea discussed.
Or not watch at all and see how fast it takes him to blink. Guy's up his own ass and is punishing his viewers for not having good cinemas (or any cinemas in some cases) near them.
@@taowroland8697 Oh yeah, every non native English speakers must be below "average intelligence" in your eyes then huh? In those Tenet scenes that Thomas shared in this clip, I can only hear gibberish. (No the Pattinson scene is okay as those unheard dialogues are truly unheard.)
@@taowroland8697 With "average intelligence" or implied intelligence greater than average, apparently come above average arrogance and inflated ego. Dude... You're an absolute prick.
You win I clicked, I heard the dialog just fine typically it is a TV or speaker issue when you can't hear dialog
I saw Tenet in a newly built, state of the art theater as an invite only guest. The dialogue was just as bad there as at home. I can only assume it was a creative choice but at home with subtitles (not being as emersive) helped a lot more with the dialogue. Very strange choice.
imma have to start telling my parents my lazyness is just a creative choice.
another way to call a trash is art.
Exactly - I saw it in premium imax - couldn’t work it out
Agreed. I've missed the odd word or half of a sentence in previous Nolan films, but with Tenet I didn't even make it halfway through the opera prologue before I restarted the whole thing with subtitles.
*immersive
I was one of those guys that didn’t understand how people “didn’t get” Inception. I’ve now seen Tenet 16 times, I’m not proud to say it but it’s true, and I still have no idea what the fuck is actually going on in the film.
Seventeenth's the charm.
@@simonyricools word? Alright, I’ll watch it again yesterday and reply back last Tuesday.
@@johne.nobody2946 I'm replying so I will get a notification when you tell us if you can understand this God damn movie on your seventeenth viewing
please explain to me; what is there to "get" about inception. its literally just a string of random decors and scenes with 0 coherence and no plot besides "its all a dream lol xd. or is it lol xd. please give me 5 oscars." oh and the acting from most actors was pretty bad, even leo wasnt trying and ellen page is a plank of wood.
if you didnt spot at least one huge plothole in tenet the first viewing, youre not smart enough to get that it makes no sense either.
@@TheSuperappelflap Well, yeah, Tenet can’t decide which theory of time it ultimately wants to use. It doesn’t know if it’s the grandfather paradox or if it’s deterministic and it fluctuates to suit the needs of the plot. It’s not Nolan’s best by any stretch, but I still don’t know that I’d called it bad.
As far as Inception, I agree there’s nothing to “get” other than its plot, which is far less complicated than people make it out to be. I don’t think it’s poorly acted, however, and I don’t think it was Oscar bait considering the years of time Nolan out into developing the concept alone, in fact, it’s one of my favorite films.
in case this interests somebody... I have been doing a particular thing, when in conversation with someone, which you may think is a little peculiar. sometimes I find myself listening too much to what the person is saying, like I get a sense that I’m listening chiefly with my intellect. so I ‘tune out’ a bit, which causes me to miss some of what the person is saying. but during that ‘tuning out’, I ‘listen’ with more of my awareness than the sense of hearing, as if I want to hear more of what is really going on. perhaps I didn’t explain this clearly... but at any rate, I find this practice very interesting, and my listening-even despite not hearing some things-feels much, much better, as if I can ‘hear’ what that person is feeling.
I saw Oppenheimer in 70mm. The music repeatedly was blown out over the top of the dialogue. The only reason it could be understood is they just cranked the theater volume to obscene.
Next Nolan movie: A bunch of key scenes will be horribly out-of-focus, a blurry unintelligible mess on the screen, because he “doesn’t believe only in clarity of visuals”.
In 20 years, he’ll be directing 10-hour epics that are just a gray screen with white noise for 10 straight hours.
Wow! So creative! So brave! So
A R T I S T I C.
You can hear Bane just fine. People got it in their head that they couldn't because of the prologue preview. You couldn't understand Bane at all. It was dubbed over in the final release.
It's perfectly reasonable to have a sound mix targeting the most advanced cinemas. But those represent a tiny fraction of the cinemas in the world. There must therefore be a sound mix appropriate for them. Similarly there would need to be different mixes for average home theatres.
What it comes down to is Nolan is telling me not to pay to see his films. There are none of those fancy cinemas nearby.
I'm glad I ended up not bothering to see Tenet at the cinema and instead watched it at home where I can at least boost the dialogue volume or switch on the subtitles.
I've seen some people advocating using headphones to watch films, but I don't see how having to buy several pairs of headphones and requiring everyone to wear them is a viable way to watch films.
I liked the idea of Mubi, but was disappointed to find that 99% of the films listed on their site are not available to watch. There are many films I'd want to watch, but they aren't actually streaming them.
There's a scene with Commissioner Gordon and Blake in TDKR, where they're in an apartment, while the city is being taken over. The dialogue is drowned out by the music no matter what sound system I'm using. That scene doesn't make sense to have been purposefully mixed like that. It's just frustrating.
Also the scene with Gordon in the hospital was unintelligible. Bane was even worse in the sneak peak before they adjusted and unnaturally boosted his voice.
Just saw the 70mm IMAX Tenet rerelease at Lincoln Square AMC, and you still couldn't understand the dialogue. His excuse of focusing on top of the line theatres doesn't seem to hold up unless the largest IMAX theatre in the country is subpar in his opinion. Thankfully, the film is incomprehensible enough, so I didn't worry about not understanding some of the dialogue.
Parts of Oppenheimer were almost impossible to hear. This is why I ALWAYS watch Nolan films with subtitles
The problem is the suppression is still dynamically compressed to the mix in a bizarre way. There's still an "audio pressure" that we're trying to connect to but is constantly being rebuffed by the other layers mastered. The way the ratio, threshold, attack/release is done, actually draws attention to the audio being subverted. i.e The inverse of melodic fills that we hear in music, except, it is a human voice, and so our neurology is tuned into trying to prioritize that. The result is subconscious frustration turning conscious. We become aware of how aggravated we are and summarize it as "we can't hear what they're saying." People understand it's intended that way, but cannot reconcile that with fundamental neurological impulses. Thus, "we can't figure out what they're saying." In other words, we know it may not be important, but how it's being done is causing us to want to process it at some level even if we end up deprioritizing it cognitively. The effect literally does the opposite of what it's intending and leads to the "okay but so what?" when the author/creator explains themselves. As inferred, the irony is that humans are very good at understanding when something is superfluous and tuning it out - it isn't a new idea to have dialogue that isn't paid attention to.There are other ways of achieving this effect. I'd put forward you could still have subdued dialogue, and not have it engineered so noticeably off. The technical way Nolan has it done is the psychological equivalent of pointing to the audience and saying "don't think about the pink elephant."
As English is not my first language, I always assume I missed a line because I didn't understand it, then I use subtitles for that particular part of the movie.
First time I saw Tenet the first half of the movie was the loudest I've ever experienced in a cinema. I actually asked the staff if there was an issue with the sound afterward.
I kinda stopped watching Nolan films after Tenet. I left the theater mentally exhausted and angry that I sat through the entire thing. Also, its a little snobby to literally *require* his audience to pay top-dollar to view his films in a high-end theater. I'm not hating on all is stuff. I loved Interstellar and the Batman trilogy, but when he seemingly goes out of his way to make things difficult story-wise and audio-wise, he loses me.
interstellar is my favourite movie, no lie. i watched it RIGHT before this popped up in my feed. perhaps i am biased, but the only time where the audio and dialogue is nigh on unintelligible is Dr Brands deathbed confession. the rest of the dialogue in the movie is completely coherent and if it is otherwise muffled it is because it fits the plot where 50% of the dialogue is with the characters in environment suits.
If you're going to drown out dialog, at least make the scene and actors' interaction loud enough to convey what is being said or going on.
There was a time when all films were silent.
"Just use subtitles if you can't hear it"
Subtitles: ["Quiet talking"]
**muffled noises**
[INAUDIBLE CHIT CHAT]
[unintelligible conversation]
[Intelligent choice of muffling conversation because of the artistic features from Chrisopher Nolan]
If this is ever the case, the writer didn’t mean for you to understand it
I saw tenet in imax and still couldn't understand far too many important lines. And my biggest issue is that issue of not knowing whether a line is supposed to be able to be heard or not
Yeh, I found that confusion, even with headphones, made Tenet often sound messy and rough, rather than refined in some way Nolan intended.
And its not like Nolan is creating a higher level of art by relying so muhc on music to create the feel of a scene. Seems honestly kinda lazy.
The scientist at the start pretty much mumbles her whole script
Nolan is working on a years long meta project to show us the suffering of Beethoven as he gradually lost his hearing.
@@samanthacino It's all starting to make sense!
I know you mean that jokingly, but there might be something to it. I don't know who the sound editor is, or if he has an honest working relationship with Nolan, but it is not out of the question that when the sound editor tells Nolan, 'the dialogue can't be heard', Nolan just over rules him. He knows every word in the script anyway, so of course he can make out the words.
Haha *golf applause*
This is the most probable answer.
lol
i feel like that scene where he's in the art safe room, the music overpowering the speech slowly was like showing us that whatever the guide was saying didn't matter at all, they wanted us to pay attention to the details that were shown instead of listening to what was said.
Why have the dialogue at all then?
@@loganmedia4401because without the dialogue, they can’t show us that the character isn’t paying attention to the words he’s being told. It adds to the story telling to represent what the character is thinking at that time. Without it, it wouldn’t be as obvious.
Exactly
Yeah that’s what I thought
I think you are right about this scene, but the counter to this point is that the whole damned film is like this.
Why couldn't Nolan just come out and say "Yo I'm sorry, I just really wanted yall to experience this fire soundtrack"
"We paid millions for this music and you will HEAR IT"
I mean, he ain't lying tho. That soundtrack was fire
Cuz zimmer don't work like that
Well the soundtrack was indeed fire.You can't Understand the movie anyway.
Thank goodness Zimmer wasn't on the movie. Inception was great, but everything else he has done sounds the same. I do know a chap who went looking for composing work in Hollywood and on good authority he said Zimmer has a staff of writers. It explains the same-y-ness. All his staff are writing to a formula, more or less. The soundtrack to The Prestige was great too, so it's refreshing to hear another musical take on a Nolan film.
Nolan: *makes audio inaudible*
Me, a non-native speaker who can't fully understand english: (laughs in subtitles)
Hah, that's very [INAUDIBLE]
Yeah I turned on subtitles when I watched and that made the movie enjoyable
Haha this deserves more likes
Subs not dubs
hilarious
I think the dialogue in Interstellar and Dunkirk was a realism technique to make you feel more immersed in the scene; there's a lot of loud noises so naturally you should have a hard time hearing the pilots in Dunkirk or Tars and the car passengers in Interstellar. But in Tenet I don't know why they aren't trying to achieve realism or anything like that. The boat scene might make sense if they weren't wearing MICROPHONES THAT INTEND TO HELP EACH OTHER HEAR THEIR VOICES BETTER FOR THIS VERY REASON.
Even in those other examples, it still doesn't make much sense. Someone struggling to hear over the phone from a blaring helicopter, and the only sound the audience hearing is the blaring helicopter? Makes perfect sense. The director is telling you "look at how loud this is, nobody can hear anything, so neither can you." It doesn't detract from the scene, it adds to it. In the case of movies like Dunkirk, Interstellar, Tenet, etc, the deafening volume of "other sounds" that overpowers dialogue adds absolutely nothing. It actually DOES detract from the scene. The purpose of dialogue is to often to convey some kind of information. Yes, film can convey information in more ways than just dialogue (as seen by showing a character frustratingly try to hear over a phone while a helicopter is whirring in the background). But the way Nolan does it, it's like it's just thrown in for no reason. In all the other examples I've seen, it's a very clear, deliberate and artistic decision by the director. In the case of Nolan, it's like he does it just for shits and giggles?
GREAT point
@@spartan456 The phone scene didn't make sense because he was clearly responding to something. Not hearing anything at all as the audience is very unlikely. In fact, even if it was incomprehensible to the character, we should still hear that tiny drowned out voice from the phone. We should hear what the character is hearing, not having immersion broken like some first person camera lens flaring by making us feel like an invisible spectator standing right next to the guy.
Logical thinking and common sense are getting harder and harder for an insane society.
@@Dowlphin so you've never attempted to respond to something even if you don't hear it well???
@@spartan456 q.e.d. - logical tinking and common sense and add reading comprehension as another deficiency.
Nolan just prepared us for everyone talking with masks on now.
Just what I was thinking ✌️
These days I always go out with a mask on and with my headphones on blasting Hans Zimmer soundtracks.
My life is a Christopher Nolan movie!
@@LizardSpork it hasn't happened yet
You. Won.
hahah
The reason Nolan was so mad about movies coming directly to streaming services was because they would have subtitles by default
There are also many places in the world where local language subtitles are added in cinemas.
I saw Tenet with subtitles in a high end theatre and had no issue with understanding dialogue.
Not saying it's good or bad.
just watched this on hbo (with subtitles) ;)
I did finally stream tenet and felt it was less then the experience I got from theatres
@@deluulujee I saw it in theaters the first time and at my home theater a second time and if i watch it a third i can guarantee you id pick on on lines i couldn't understand before
I think it’s more he loves shooting in imax and 70 mm. Methods pretty much useless if only for gonna be for home viewing
I think it should also be remembered that in the mixing process, when they're listinging to a line 10 or 100 times, the people working on the film know what the characters are saying, so it's easier for them to distinguish what they say in the final product. For audiences listening to it for the first time, it's a different issue entirely and I don't think Nolan has yet grasped that.
Wouldn't they have test audiences though?
Totally, Im an editor and this happens to me a lot. Is even worse when you are the one who took the footage
@@MrBrownvp1 I'd think this is specifically stuff one would have to be able to understand and deal with in that job. Otherwise I have to assume that just about anybody can do those specialized jobs they get paid for if the entry bar is that low.
It also seems self-centered to just conclude that the audience can understand unclear speech just because you know what is said. After all, it doesn't change the fact that it is unclear, and especially a sound editor has to have a refined perception of such things.
I keep coming to the conclusion that as an untrained but thoughtful person I would be pretty good in so many different jobs. (But society isn't just meritocracy, especially not the movie industry.)
mixing for subpar cinemas is still a dumb idea. It's like saying Van Gogh should've used brighter colours so ppl can see his paintings in dimly lit galleries. An easy solution for Noaln's issue is running subtitles all the time. Easy. Also, I'm doing motorcycle lessons, and when you ride, it's really difficult to hear stuff through the helmet and engine noise and wind noise etc. And I think the boat scene in Tenet conveys the intensity of an extreme activity really well thanks to the dialogue being hard to hear. But yes, I did watch it with subtitles, so what do I know...
@@rains00theThe only issue with your argument is by all accounts the high quality theaters were WORSE, especially Dolby certified ones!
"They did a temporal pincer!"
"A temporal pincer? What's that?"
"That's when you HRGHHFFFFRRHRN and RUTINDMAIHDGHHH in order to BLURGBLURGHBLURCH!"
"Oh, I see."
On The Waterfront, it ain't.
It’s intentional.
@@JustChadC Doesn't make it any better
If the movie can survive with them being replaced by bleeps, I guess it's OK. But you have to make it _clear_ that they're not meant to be understood - go _all the way_ with making them unhearable. Don't put them on the edge so the audience thinks they can get it if only they strain a bit more.
@@DragonsFrogs It in fact makes it *much* worse.
*Nolan:* HHRGHBUBRHGH BAHGNRH SHNGUBRBR
*Audience:* Can't hear you very well, you're too far up your own arse!
“No one could hear what the hell I was saying until I took off the mask” - Christopher Nolan’s Bane
Underrated
lol
LOL you got me with this one
I read that in Bane's voice! 😂
@@sahilbilal I think that is why Bane was so angry. He had to repeat himself.
I watched Tenet 3 times in Showcase XPLUS - great 4K laser projector, and excellent speakers with crystal clear sound. The dialogue was incredibly difficult to understand and the repeat viewings did not make it easier.
Why did I watch it so many times? I LOVED the score lol.
Because of reverse entropy, the sounds are leaving our ears and going into their mouth
this one is good
They are catching the sounds with their mouth
There is no real science in this crappy overrated movie.
Underrated comment brah
@4four4 I Did uderstand it, and even better, I understand physics, totally missing in this movie. There is no reverse entropy in a System that flows with a certain entropy, i the moment you watch a thing from the reverse System it becomes to embrace your "normal" entropy System. No science at all
I can hear Bane’s words 10 times better than the words in tenet.
tenet really was a mess
That's because Bane's dialogue was mixed OVER everything else, making him seem super out of place in every scene. Like he's talking over the movie like a commentary voice over, instead of talking in the scene.
I feel like people just struggle to understand him if they’re not British lol
@@choo_choo_ I absolutely agree that my first time watching the movie the mixing made me laugh out loud and very confused. It sounds like bane is talking from another room!!! Especially in the airplane opening he sounds absolutely ridiculous
@@SageSSBM1 Same. I thought there was something wrong with the speakers, like he was coming from the wrong channel or something. To this day I have no clue what they were thinking making him sound like that. It bothers me on a fundamental level that they could hear it and think, "yep, this is some good mixing" when he's completely outside the mix.
That scene when the art guy is explaining the vault always seemed deliberate to me, like we're concentrating on R Pats thinking about the job and almost zoning out the detail cos he's too busy scoping the layout
in the movies, usually, a scene like that has a set up for a later pay off. it's explained how a certain alarm works, so that a character could later be seen figuring out how to avoid the alarm, and the audience would understand how it was done
I thought it was going for that too, but the mix just didn't seem right for it to totally work.
Yeah, i just re-watched the entire scene and the snippet used was just very deceptively chosen. The entire scene involves audible dialogue in the planning stages, it is only that one little bit that you can't understand simply because the focus isn't on what he is saying. I checked the subtitles, and when you couldn't hear what he was saying, it's not like there were still subtitles... it literally just said something like (Neal {robs character} focuses on the vault.) I've seen the movie twice and have had no problem with the dialogue.
That part is blatantly implying that what the art guy is saying at those moments just aren't important, and Pattinson is more focused on the layout of the room
Well thank you captain obvious 👏
That's crazy, I never knew about this because, as a non native english speaker, I watch my movie with english subtitle. I thought I understood it clearly, but I didn't.
You made me realise that I probably have a complete different experience than the people complaining about it.
Thank you for all the amazing video you give us, you realy help expanding my perspective and knowledge about filmmaking.
Tenant was by far the worst Nolan movie I ever watched because of the sound.
I genuinely couldn’t understand 90% of the movie so I got so bored because what is happening. The fact that is intentional is so stupid.
I completely agree with this 9:18
It didn’t help much that the background noise they made louder than their voices was actually too loud. Gunshots would literally hurt my ears. I couldn’t imagine watching Tenant at home because I would have to keep turning the volume up and down and that is just frustrating.
@@AmiAki try subtitles
@@k0lpA oh wow you thought you did something there. Here 🍪
Mean while they clearly had to fix the audio for Tenant after all the complaints and the director speaking on it so wasn’t just me.
@@AmiAki Nah I had same experience. Watched it when it came on TV. I'm a big sci-fi fan, but after a while I stopped really caring during this movie. I kept feeling like I'd missed something important, eventually I was like meh, whatever.
Nolan says Tenet will resurrect the theatre industry and then only makes his movie enjoyable for a select number of high-end theatres.
Honestly I really doubt Tenet would have made some colossal amount of money the way previous Nolan movies did. Yeah Tenet was good enough overall but the critical reception hasn’t been even close to something like the reception of Inception, TDK, Dunkirk, or even Interstellar. I really doubt this movie would have pulled numbers like those movies did
Might not have resurrected it but I was really grateful it released in my country on the big screen. Much better than the other movies that I had the option of seeing and really filled the hole that'd developed from not visiting theatres during lockdown
@@danielmashanic5738 Agreed but as a creator Nolan probably thought he'd made another good movie. And with a long runtime and a premise that unfolds itself on multiple viewings, it's possible it could have gained a strong following. I believe it could have been released this year, before Bond and the other big Hollywood movies, and pulled a profit and returned people to the theatre.
He didnt had control over this, he wanted to release it to a wider audience but the studio was unable to get theaters ready or the threaters were in areas with high amount of covid cases thus the local authorities stopping them from opening the threaters.
I mean I saw it in an imax theatre where it was “supposed” to be seen and I couldn’t hear shit so. I really enjoyed the movie though, it wasn’t as thought provoking as interstellar or inception in my opinion because it has to basically drip feed you the science and story to keep you from getting lost but I still thought it was super fun and enjoyable to watch. I was excited and waiting for the next thing to happen on the def of my seat the entire movie even if it wasn’t perfect.
Nolan is a genius. His next step should be to make all the filmed scenes invisible too.
lololol
Audio book ;)
Like a radio show?
@@strauss2514 Yes, exactly, but with unintelligible words.
Many movies do this already. The screen is just so black/dark that you cant make out anything in some scenes.
I think Nolan is addicted to the epic music his composers make, so he just blasts it nonstop.
That's unbelievably based
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@karlwithak1835huh? Loo
@@karlwithak1835
Lmaoooo ridiculous.
Yeah, watch Nolan's films like Memento and The prestige. The soundtrack was minimal and you could hear the dialogue perfectly.
Tenet is the first English speaking film that warrants being translated to English
What if it’s inverted English?
Fun fact: Trainspotting had English subtitles when it was released in cinemas in the USA. Apparently US audiences found the Scottish accents too hard to understand.
The Lighthouse has it beat
@@Jagonath that's fair
@@Jagonath the first Mad Max movie was even redubbed in American English, with a few words of Australian slang replaced.
I saw the whole film. My final verdict?
It looks like a good movie.
Don’t know if it sounds like one though
haha I've seen it twice now and this is still my opinion. Maybe 3-4 more viewings will change my mind lol
Idiotic film
one of the worst movies, believe me, read the script while watching the movie to pretend that i was getting it, just bad writing.
its just a really cool music video
That scene with Robert Pattinson is just beautiful, it reminds me of that feeling when you are just zoning out on something else and just slowly stop listening halfway into a conversation. It’s so good.
Yes, that usage made sense there.
It really showed us what his character was really focusing on, which was what we were also supposed to be focusing on.
As for the rest of Tenet - it was never a film that was meant to be watched only once.
Feels like my life 24/7
That was an excellent use and clearly intentional. Loved it. But WHY ALL THE MASKS!
Yea he is not paying attention its obvious. He is focusing on alarms and exits.
Nolan: Tries to preserve the cinematic experience
Also Nolan: Makes it so that the best way to watch his films is at home with subtitles on.
Some really mixed messaging
Exactly, while I was watching the movie, I kept thinking I had to wait to see it again at home with subtitles.
Oh yeah english speaking countries don't have subtitles...
@@Krondon-SSR I watched the movie in Taiwan and ended up relying on the Chinese (my third language) subtitles to at least try and understand much of the dialog.
I think the editing team is responsible for this mess
I feel like sometimes people who get a little too into any particular artform begin to conflate the fact that something is a deliberate and unconventional decision with it being a good decision. The fact that it was on purpose doesn't make it suck less.
Although the reverse can be said too. Just because a person thinks it sucks for being a creative decision that doesn't "strictly" make it a good approach does not mean it really sucks. Both sides get into defending art forms. Is the dialogue hard to hear at points? Yes. Was it a bad or sucky decision? Hard to say because there are people who like it as they feel this approach tried to mimic how in real life people wearing masks are sort of hard to hear, for example. Is it an odd decision? Most likely. Does it make it difficult to understand parts of the story? Certainly because people have different levels of hearing. However, does the sound mixing block dialogue entirely to the point where you have to go read the script to see if there was information lost in the movie? Not really because it can still be sort of discernible.
It was a chaotic decision on Nolan's part. That's what I think.
_"The fact that it was on purpose doesn't make it suck less."_ exactly...
@@MM-hk4pb The mask audio makes sense, especially so if other people in the film have an equally hard time understanding him. it fails to make sense though if the audience cant understand it, but everyone else in the film can understand it just fine. Given the directors defense of "watch it in a expensive theater with the best audio, or suffer with a horrible experience in other theaters, but please keep buying tickets to see it, i need that money". If he really wanted to stick to his 'best experience' he would have not allowed the film in theaters with sub par audio. But he didnt do that. The guy is just a rich snob trying to get peoples money who doesnt care about anyone.
@@jessiejanson1528 Not to mention its blatantly elitist and snobby. it restricts the accessibility of the art and limits its scope too. Art should be viewable from as many points as possible. its just like if Dvinci made the Mona Lisa only viewable with special glasses that you have to be rich to buy. not everyone can afford IMAX experiences. if you want a "perfect" version make that separate and advertise the requirements.
@@jessiejanson1528 Do you have proof that he said that?
A very well analysed video. I think Oppenheimer has been a considerable improvement on the sound mixing and exposition
Yes, still has "loud epic music" thrown in but was still mixed well
Couldn’t understand a thing for large portions of the film. Same for friends and parents. Especially when Murphy or RDJ talked, I couldn’t hear 30-40% of what they says. It’s a shame, because it was a fantastic film and he didn’t have to do it.
@@didnever1202 Ahah I am French and was working in Germany this summer when Oppenheimer was released, my english is correct and I understood most of the dialogues but sometimes I was completely lost bc of the accent of some characters. (Now imagine watching memento/inception in your non-native langage x))) )
Oppenheimer actually used the LOUD ASS SOUND for a good effect. And all of the talkey bits you could hear. Funny how that changes a movie.
In the Freeport scene, it makes perfect sense because Neil himself is Not paying full attention to what the guy is saying. He's actually casing the place in order to break in. So the dialogue fades into the background.. but then there's other scenes where that shouldn't really happen.
Yes, that's one of the few Tenet scenes where it's done well. We know it's done well because it's clear you're not supposed to hear. And that's what makes all the difference: The audience knows what the creator is intending.
The director is telling you to stop listening and start looking. Listening and subtitles will make u miss the key factors.
@@NoriMori1992 exactly. Novelty!!! But people are butthurt
@@smmshoe youre saying you understood a fucking thing in that movie?
@@stupidteous well I did understand fully after watching it 2 times then watching every video of Welby CofeeSpill
Next time Nolan should film his movies in a dark room where you can barely see what's going on, as well as muffled dialogue. That would be true artistic creativity of the highest caliber.
Like Alien vs Predator Requiem? That was a baaaaaad film.
Cinema is an essentially visual medium.
Deaaaaadddddd
why do I want this?
Oh like they did in Game of Thrones?
Maybe obscuring dialogue in a movie with a difficult-to-follow plot isn’t the best idea. Just a thought.
THAT'S THE IDEA 😃
Why don’t you create a movie and stop complaining
@@BeyondmyselfIsrael bullshit reply. Criticism is valid and keeps the medium vital
@@BeyondmyselfIsrael The hilarious part is you would never tell someone they have to be a five star chef to know it tastes like someone literally sharted on their meatballs.
@@BeyondmyselfIsrael why don't homeless people just buy homes amiright
In Sin City there is a word that someone shouts that is vital for the story but you can't hear it because the other character in that scene couldn't hear it, it is later revealed what that word was and in that moment the main character realises they fucked up and that it could have been avoided provided he had understood what was being shouted at him previously
What’s the word?
@@simba00784 I cant tell you, it would ruin the moive. Go watch it, its really good
@@cesar3rocks783what’s the movie?
"He's a (rhymes with stop)!"
@@AmoBolivia66 Sin City
Such an innovator….I hope in his next film he points the cameras at the film crew instead of the actors…now that would be a subversion
There are filmmakers that would actually do this (Lars Von Trier)
So a film crew to film the film crew? So what if there's a film crew to film the crew filming the film crew filming the film? And then there's a film crew filming the film crew filming the film who's filming the crew who's filming the film. THEN you have a film crew to film the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew who's filming the film crew filming the film. AND THEN you have a film crew whose fil................
@@skakid0 true
@@skakid0 No just film crew shooting at mirrors which only reflect themselves so theyre filming themselves filming themselves. FIlm crew shooting themselves the movie.
@@Andytlp filmception
I had no problems with Interstellar, Dunkirk, or The Dark Night Rises dialogue being difficult to understand. Because it made sense that because Bane was wearing a mask, and TARS was in a different spacecraft about to enter a black hole. There is usually a good in universe reason why the dialogue can be tough to hear. Its immersive. The problem with TENET is that 99% of the time you cant hear the dialogue, its because of the score. The score is cool, but considering its non-diegetic it has no real reason to effect the dialogue, and you miss interesting stuff.
Tenet was the first film in a long time where a few things happened to me. 1) I fell asleep and 2) I had no idea what the hell was going on and 3) I had to constantly fiddle with the volume because some things were very quiet and some things were incredibly loud. It was a very annoying experience.
@acktually aintaddingup To be fair, I was extremely tired at the time and probably would have fallen asleep to any movie. That being said, I never fall asleep during movies I have never seen before.
I never had any issue with any other movie and I am a fan of Nolan. I was really excited about Tenet but it kept getting difficult to understand what they were saying any why was someone doing what they did. I lost my interest and was really disappointed.
i think the dialogue mixing was done really well in interstellar. when coop talks to his daughter in that low voice it sounds more sweet an intimate. tars sounding like that thru the black hole makes total sense
I believe Nolans films are not so much about the story, but more about the feeling the story evokes. And I believe you don't have to "get" 100% of the story to feel it. Actually a diffuse feeling of wonder might strengthen your experience, at least for me it did with Tenet.
By keeping his films mixed only for top of the line theaters, Nolan is cutting out a lot of future viewers of his movies who would discover them in future generations, but won't stick with them because they can't hear what the hell is going on. I appreciate that he wants to concentrate on offering the best theatrical experience possible, but a majority of his potential audience doesn't even have access to a top of the line theater.
You don't need top of the line equipment you need good equipment.
Audio has been horrendously affected by the loudness wars, Leading to marketing selling more products than quality.
People splash hundreds of dollars on the recent sony xm model whilst they could get a headphone with vastly better sound quality for 1/5 of the price. The problem isn't price and never has been but the lack of knowledge.
You don't need a top of the line speaker set up to hear the voices in Tenet, you just need to avoid terrible soundbars made by brands that are more invested in marketing than audio!
Hell, most mid range tvs have better speakers these days than the soundbars they are advertised with because there's a format war and so more care goes into TV speaker arrays than the dedicated audio products the big brands try to shift!
@@AlexxxxxSaysHi Which noise cancelling headphones with much better sound quality cost one fifth of the Sony ones?
“dialogue is a sound effect”
“What??”
“I said dialogue is a sound effect!”
“WHAT?? I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”
“DIIIAAALOOOOGUE IS A SOOOUUUUND EFFEEEECT!”
Next up they're gonna make the subtitles illegibly small.
Your profile pic matches your comment perfectly haha
@@aramisstark3791 lol you’re right :D
It really is the dumbest method I ever heard.
Dialogue is pure communication. In real life If you can't hear someone because of a loud noise, then they either talk louder or not at all. Why not capture a scene of no talking if dialogue is not vital to you. Or lots of screaming if you want to express LOUD NOISES
What?
Oxygen mask scene 7:54 “Well we better budda pidda how before bum guys how fing” nods head.
On a boat: "ya boat is all chocolate?"
"I bought it at the jelly-train station"
"Rueguruehhruh"
It’s actually “batta batta batta, swing batta”
I'm hearing this dialog for the first time here in this video. I'm American but note that even with a thick Scottish accent i could hear the first time, "Well then we better clear the room before the bomb" something something. On the fourth listening i made out "goes off". So i suspect that a Scottish person wouldn't have had trouble.
Interestingly, we had the same issue in another scene at 2:44. Again i haven't seen this film or ever heard this clip.
Scottish accent: Eh, i'm goin' down.
English accent: I'm on him, bail out
Heard it all the first time.
The Bane guy in the mask, again i discerned the first half on the first hearing, and it took three more hearings before i could get the rest of it ("of this city to the people").
So. I think it's partly an arrogant director who loses focus after listening to the first half of a line, and partly a new generation of arrogant listeners who don't care to understand anyone who's not exactly like they are.
The astronaut conversation about the robot, i had no real trouble discerning. The catamaran scene, i couldn't make out more than three words and still haven't been able to. The security discussion i got more than half of, even though most commenters are saying they couldn't make heads or tails out of it.
I can sympathize with a reasonably smart director who's mad because he perceives that his younger viewers are intentionally ignorant and mentally lazy. But i can also sympathize with viewers who accurately perceive that the director is retaliating by intentionally mucking it up worse than he otherwise would.
Of course, if a film is simply garbage, as most are today, it hardly detracts that you can't hear the dialog. In fact, if i'm being "forced" to sit through it, it might be a plus. 😆
@@no_rubbernecking I understand what you mean but I don't think being unused to a Scottish accent and therefore having more difficulty understanding it makes a person "arrogant".
@@nvexe8822 You are right. I didn't mean to suggest that someone who is unused to it is arrogant, any more than i'm calling a deaf person ignorant for not having heard it before. Simply that there is a generational divide with people on one side more likely to embrace things that are different and a newer scene that tends to shun them, therefore being ignorant by choice. Of course there are many exceptions to the rule... people who instinctively are better but who maybe just haven't yet had the exposure to something. I mean we all have things we haven't experienced. So there's no shame in that. The problem is to ignore intentionally when something different comes around, without giving a chance. That's all i meant and i'm 45... people under 40 today tend to be more prone to this issue. And it struck me that this is one cause (just one) of the kind of disagreement we're seeing here. So IMO the director is not 100% wrong, if i'm correctly seeing what his intended point is.
I pretty much mentally blanked out halfway through the movie I was so tired of trying to understand what they were saying it just frustrated me
same i kept going back
Just watch the Red Dwarf episode “backwards”. It makes sense and is funnier.
yep, it was incredibly frustrating
Yeah I was frustrated a few times.
same
The biggest irony is, I can hear the sound better at my home compared to the theatre - where Nolan wants you to watch it.
You're doing a great job of getting people back to theatres, Nolan.
Cry
@@kirikiri44695 boy thought he did something 😭😭
@@kirikiri44695die
at least at home i have headphones where i can adjust the sound and subtitles
@@kirikiri44695 seethe
I second his conclusion here. The problem with voice being a 'sound effect' is the audiences aren't necessarily able to know whether they've missed out on something crucial or not. The film-maker might know, but if the emotions you're eliciting in your audience in a climatic scene are confusion, annoyance and worry, then you've probably done something wrong.
Agreed, if it takes you out of the movie it's a mistake.
Nolan makes his films in a way to encourage rewatching them. Its peeling the layers.
@@oldskool4572 no he's not there are no layers he's just pompous. What layers are you peeling back when you can't hear anything because wind and music were pushed to 11 but dialogue is at a 3? Ah must be windy out?!?
@@MoonDoggie82 Its a matter of opinion. Not fact. Each to their own ;)
yup, i agree, you think you've missed something then you lose focus from the movie. plus his movie are quite heavy so you are always trying to work out whats going on.
So people, for decades, complain about how there's too much of a difference between the sound levels of dialogue and sound effects, so much so that sometimes it is literally painful and Nolan looks at this and goes "you know what? I can turn this issue into a real problem"
He turned the music up to 11. Then diminished the dialogue to -11.
Honestly it's a maasive issue anyway. I fuckin hate watching films cuz I have to hold the bastard TV remote the whole time.
@@thatoneguychad420 Pretty much not a real issue there for me. I got an app that automatically normalizes the volume for me so dialogue is usually very clear on the devices I installed the app on.
@@emitain8408 this app works for your TV? If not then it's no good sadly. Why would I watch a 4K high Def film on a phone screen lol.
@@thatoneguychad420 Movies are being mixed by someone sitting in a sound proof booth with 500€ headphones who's then like "sounds just fine to me".
In Interstellar, I think it works. The shuddering of the space ships interior realistically drowns out the dialogue that's broadcast over radio which is mostly just garble and quindar tones anyway
But in the tenet he hair turned the music all the way up and went “yup sounds cool”
@@Blueturtle1 that's why he said "In Interstellar"
@@jamega4000 that’s why I said “in tenet”
There are scenes where it definitely doesn't work, such as when they're in generally quiet places and mumbling.
Then again, if you miss the line about it costing them 51 years that is a hugely consequential bit of exposition that is completely and totally missed because of creative decision. If you're ok with people not hearing that, why include it in the movie at all?
Sadly, while mixing things to only work with "top end" cinemas, Nolan is also ignoring another important aspect - People with hearing problems.
Many people have mild to moderate hearing problems, which aren't otherwise an issue to people.
Nolan is effectively deliberately excluding them from the cinimatic experience.
Fair enough, making things specifically difficult to hear for a choice. General dialogue should be audible.
Nah
There is a scene where they're in a completely quiet room with no masks, no music and their voices are mixed so low you can't hear them.
I saw it on HBO Max and had to have my tv volume up to almost the max level and still had to read subtitles - which are tiny and don't stand out enough on HBO Max.
@@kimberlylabrec246
Yeah, I noticed I had to turn my TV volume up to 42 to hear the dialogue, & I usually go up to 22. So the score about blew me outta the room, & then my hubby walked in wondering what I was doing! lol
A big difference between the examples you give and Nolan's clips is that for the examples, the sound obscuring the voice is diegetic. Not only the audience doesn't hear, but the other people in the scene are affected too. This makes it super clear that it is intended.
In Nolan's case, a lot of the time the sounds obscuring the voices are non-diegetic, it's the music. The characters around are also part of the dialogue and aren't showing signs of not listening/hearing, which also makes the audience feel left out. It's okay in a movie like Dunkerque, as the action is more important to convey the plot than the dialogues themselves, but in a movie where dialogues are an integral part of the plot, it has to have a clear line between what is supposed to be heard and not heard.
I think the scene with Robert Pattinson on the contrary is quite well made, as you can seem him look around, the camera focuses on what he is looking at, not the person talking, so the feeling of him not really listening to what the person is saying and instead focusing on whatever he's focusing on works brilliantly.
Spot on
good comment, I agree :)
Yeah, I genuinely dont understand anyone's beef with the Pattison scene. People are misapplying their critique to that scene because of other scenes in the movie where one could make a reasonable argument that the sound is negatively affecting the scene. The Pattison scene is not one of these instances, and it's made very clear.
Hahahaha "Dunkerque" 😂
One of the greatest things I learned in my cinema classes I took as electives were Diegetic or not, and how much more story can be conveyed based on where the sound is coming from.
When I watched Tenet the first time I was so damn confused. He’s taken the muddy dialogue thing way too far with Tenet, especially when so much of the dialogue is crucial to understanding the story. The scientist chick at the beginning was borderline mumbling.
I actually left during the sailboat scene because I couldn't hear any of the dialogue and didn't want to spoil anything by seeing the rest without really understanding what was happening. I had thought it was just the theater's sound mix being screwed up lol. Turns out that wasn't really the case 😫
@@frcShoryuken when I watched tenet I was just barely able to understand enough to keep up with the plot until the end where all I could get from what was happening was what was happening on the boat
I appreciate when creators consider how their audience will experience their art. For example, Dave Grohl said about mixing his records that he would get them how he wanted them in the studio and then listen to them on crappy car stereos to be sure they sound good there too, because that's how most people will listen. He acknowledges that not everyone can enjoy his music on studio quality speakers and I would appreciate if Nolan would acknowledge that not everyone can watch his movies in a perfectly aligned Imax theater.
"he would get them how he wanted them in the studio and then listen to them on crappy car stereos to be sure they sound good there too"
Every professional checks their mix on shitty speakers. If your mix engineer doesn't do this, get a better engineer.
This is the way. If you're making art for the sake of making art, fine whatever. Do what you want. You want your characters to all wear masks and mumble, fine. Your piece. But if you want it to be experienced by people, if you want to share your art, then don't be surprised and act like the people have the problem when you make weird, exclusionary, and elitist decisions. I do NOT need to be so far up Nolan's asshole that I know what he had for breakfast, that's not how I enjoy art.
The thing is, I am totally fine with Nolan's logic behind the way he wants his sound mixed. But if it's only intelligible in a THX certified IMAX theatre, then he shouldn't sell his film to theatres that aren't THX certified IMAX theatres. And yet he does. So to me he doesn't have a point when he says it's meant for perfectly aligned THX IMAX theatres. It's just bad sound design the way it's done now.
I listened to a Fred Again interview where he said he listens to his songs on his iPhone speakers before bothering to try and finish engineering them, because if they don't sound good on an iPhone, then it's not a good song, and a bad song can't be fixed with good production. To be honest, I think the main problem with Tenet isn't the sound mixing, but it's just not a good movie. About halfway through it I was wondering why I was bothering to care about any of it. The sound mixing was annoying, but if the plot worked as a movie, it wouldn't have mattered that much.
I sort of like that he doesn’t consider the audience. I have to go out of my way to travel to a kinda far away theatre to see his movies. Makes them more special to me. He’s the only director I go to the theatres for bcz it actually feels worth the money
Also, you can almost identically recreate a theatre experience with a $100 phone, a piece of cardboard, and cheap headphones; if there’s no imax theatres near you lol
I am hard of hearing, so actually, I can't hear the difference between Nolan's movies and any other movies. Or people speaking in real life. It's all muffled. So I guess I'll start using Tenet to tell people why accessibility is so important, everywhere.
Agreed!
Hell yeah :D
I am hard of hearing as well, but seemingly not to the same degree as you. Most things and people are clear enough if I pay attention to them, but if I'm not focusing directly on a sound it could slip into the background much like everything else for me. That being said, I have to watch many movies with subtitles in order to properly understand them and a lot of that comes down to the mixing. It's frustrating for me, so I can't even imagine what it must be like for people who are even harder of hearing than me. In cases like Nolan's films, it feels like he's outright ignoring entire audiences and I'm not sure how to feel about that.
The only thing that bothered me is that everything was so painfully loud in theater haha i understand the creative process but Jesus my ears
I watched Tenet at home on a smart tv from 2015. My god were parts of it so loud I had to turn it down.
I feel the same way whenever I go.... I mean, went... to a theatre and the volume was set to maximum for the commercials and trailers at the beginning. Like, it's not going to make me want to buy a car or drink a coke or watch Garbage Man 2: the Revenge any more if my ear drums are bleeding.
I absolutely loved opening action scene of Tenet and the loud mixing. But it lost its effect fast as the loudness never really ended. If everything is loud, nothing is loud.
I went to two cinemas with two different sets of friends and both times the friends said their ears hurt after
@@trw1782 this exactly!!
I was just thinking, Nolan's problem with exposition is the actual problem. And then you said it. So. Yay.
I feel like a good 30 min could be taken out of the first hour of Tenet. The whole first half of the movie is just repeating exposition
The whole movie just felt very off to me. There was so much stuff constantly being introduced that nothing really grabbed me, it all just flew by. The exposition was bad, yes, but it also felt very cold, with no connection to the characters.
Another big problem is pacing. He just simply does not have the feel for it. And that problem is in every film of his. Another is also his self-seriousness, but i guess some people like it, for me, it makes me cringe. Oh well.
@@williamtseng yeah unfortunately Denzel’s son has 2% of his charisma and acting talent at best, so the 007 model doesn’t work at all, good observation though.
@@williamtseng I understand what you're saying, and Nolan is my fav filmmaker by far so I typically love just about anything he does - but imo that's why this movie didn't work for me like most of his others, 007 movies like you mentioned have very little character development & connection but they largely work because of the charisma of Connery and some of the other leads, and you could argue the more recent ones have less of that but are still benefitting from the 007 franchise name and what came before. The Protagonist didn't have any of this charisma or acting chops for lack of a better phrase, but without that or strong character development/connection everything just feels empty. Compare that to Interstellar or Inception which had all of the above and imo that's why this feels empty despite being one of the most technically impressive films I think I've ever seen. Interstellar was one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. Think if we put Leo or McConaughy or Denzel (or even Pattinson) into the role of The Protagonist and the movie gets about 25% better, at least imo. I know he was cast for his athleticism and physicality but idk to me that's probably the worst reason to cast someone unless they're playing Hulk Hogan in a biopic or something haha.
My biggest problem is having wild shifts in volume i.e. deafening explosions followed by quiet talking. This was what put me off watching this at home
Watching at home makes it so bad because often trying to make the audio the right volume is a pain in the ass because you cant actually hear the talking if you make sure the audio wont be heard 3 blocks away
Because explosions were to the point. Explosions are actually deafening.
Dunkirk is basically unwatchable because of this reason. Well, there's lots of reasons it sucks but the sound mixing is probably the biggest one.
Exactly!! Sometimes I have to watch a movie with the remote in my hand the whole time, so I can turn it up in dialogue scenes and then try to turn it down in action scenes before my windows get blown out. Having sound-trigger anxiety or tinnitus would be absolute hell watching this
@@setheus tinnitus is also really bad with tinnitus scenes (usually after grenades in movies) painful to hear that ringing and tinnitus ringing at the same time
Having never seen Tenet, I feel like I can understand what Nolan is getting at when Robert Pattinson's character is being led around the vault or wherever they are. The music drowns out the attendant because the character isn't listening, he's looking and making his own judgements. I'm unsure of what justification there is for these other instances, though.
there's none! absolutely none. big scenes where characters are meant to be explaining plot to you are just garbled nonesense. but also please watch tenent bc it's a lot of fun!!! (just watch with subtitles maybe....)
It's kind of the same way in other parts of the movie, because The Protaganist, doesn't understand everything going on.
There's very few bits of exposition in Tenet that are actually necessary. There's an explanation of inversion and an explanation of the villain's motivations, apart from that the dialogue we dont hear is mostly unimportant conversation or a character saying what you see (ie when the woman pushes the guy off the boat she's essentially saying das verdanya, but we can see the intent on camera). I personally loved Tenet, its a top 5 Nolan film imo (i'd say 1) dark knight, 2) interstellar, 3) Inception, 4) Prestige, 5) Tenet).
@@TheJadeFist neither does the audience
Yes, in ONE SCENE OF THE MOVIE the choice makes sense. The rest of the time however, it is fucking atrocious.
I first saw Tenet in the 70mm IMAX in London and I missed a lot of dialogue in scenes where it was genuinely important. Tenet is the first Nolan movie where I’ve had this problem, the mix in Interstellar and Dunkirk worked perfectly for me but Tenet was problematic
same
I saw it at BFI IMAX, which should presumably be one of if not the best cinema sound system in the UK, and I still don't know most of what was said in the catamaran scene. Perhaps my hearing's just not up to snuff.
@@TheJamesM nah its not u, its the movie
I viewed Tenet in an IMAX theater in Michigan. I agree that the dialogue throughout most of the movie was difficult to understand. Dialogue in the same theater with other big budget movies was excellent.
saw it on 70mm imax in northern california and straight up could not figure out what was going on.
This reminds me of the final shot of "Magnolia" where Aimee Mann's "Save Me" plays over the dialouge being spoken by John C. Reilly's cop character but the camera focuses on the drug addicted Claudia played by Melora Walters.... it was first time i realized the technique was used to show her characters intense emotional arc and finally end in a "hopeful" manner with the focus solely on her facial movements but i remember being confused by this choice as a young teen until i was older when i accepted Magnolia as my favorite film of all time.... in Nolan films, the tenchnique feels more chaotic, like its used during scenes where, as a viewer, I'm trying to understand what's happening and it adds to the disorienting confusion but i can see why he does it.... i have noticed it upsets my parents and siblings though
I've noticed over the years that a looooot of movies and shows seem to have this weird audio mixing where the music is super loud and the dialogue is much softer. It makes it so I constantly have to turn the volume up and down; it's beyond annoying. I have no idea if this is a recent thing, or it's been a problem for a long time now, and I've only just started noticing.
Often cinemas are much to loud. It's cool today. Overstimulus of senses is the new dope. In Yoga tradition it is called Rajas. Fast cuts. Low attention span. Instant reward. To me this is a part of this tik tok mentality fast, bigger, quicker, more, overdoese... LOUDER.
My grandma even complains about loud music in ARD crime movies 😂 The voice is clear as anything to me there. LOL
Most modern day movies have far to many cuts to enjoy them in my opnion. I love the Andor oder Space Oysee 2001 speed a lot. I liked Interstellar, but I did not make it over 30 minutes with tenet. Didn't get me at all. I also disliced inception for being that "deep" with 3 cuts a second, there was no movie left to me. Might be creative, but it heavly suffers from this hyperactive problem of modern media. And therefore I dare to dislike it. Even Matrix 1 or Dark City shot in a much better, clearer, slower way. Both Masterpieces in my opinion.
Would be funny to count cuts of Matrix 1 and Inception and Tenet. A cuts per minute value should be in each good critique.
@@hellerart I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but we're not really talking about the same thing here when it comes to over-use of cuts and just poor sound mixing. All I'm talking about is the fact that, to hear the dialogue, I sometimes have to go deaf in the next scene when the music comes back...
@@RenegadeVile Yes I see the same spiritual source in both problems. Modern Media delivers a overdose. Like drugs.
In most cinemas I hear me ears humming after leaving. But the same with Discos... Yes it is this way because dialogue is often normal loudness and explosions and music are 3x as load. Maybe this is the real difference between a bomb and a voice... strange mixing.
Yes probably I got over the top with my comment, but I percieve it this way. And I am really sad Andor is too slow to a lot of people.
The seem to go heavy in for the low tones as well, which sometimes makes dialogue sound like someone mumbling from across the room. It's like trying to listen to someone else's conversation at another table in a restaurant. It's even worse if there's music, because like you said, they tend to mix it louder, plus a lot of soundtracks heavy on the same low frequency notes as the dialogue so it turns the entire soundscape into mush.
Couldn't agree more! It's infuriating. What happened to smart sound?
Imagine as an interviewer repeating this process back to him everytime you ask him a question by also playing a loud sound effect that drowns out your question as you ask it and then you just look at him like he is an idiot for not responding to you... I bet he would get annoyed really fucking quick.
that's brilliant
*slow clapping
Wow
Producer to Nolan:
“Sir it seems nobody understands what the hell is going on in this movie.
Nolan:
“Is the soundtrack good?”
Sound editor: “You bet!!!”
Nolan: “Well then crank that $hit up! Solved!”
Lol
It is tho
Producer: sir it seems no one can understand what the hell is going on in this movie.
Nolan: mwah mwah mwah
Producer: what
Nolan: I said I am the producer. Which is the problem.
@@DavidHeffron78 😂
I saw what you did there...coz i couldn't hear it... 🤣
100% agree on your final conclusion re: Nolan's artistry. I've seen most of his films (I'm missing Momento, Dunkirk, and Oppenheimer), and I've only actually thought 2 were thoroughly enjoyable AND top quality. I find his writing/storytelling sub-par for his status, but I think he gets away with it because he really excels at the parts of storytelling that he's good at. I feel like at this point his career has been so successful that he feels he can get away with obeying his ego and not necessarily make the best decisions for his craft.
i thought i was struggling to follow the plot because i couldn't freakin hear the dialogue so i rewatched it and realised i was struggling to follow the plot because i can't hear nolan's voice from so far up his own ass
LMAO
🤣
LOL
😂😂
Best summary
"you have to watch nolan movies in an expensive exclusive theater to actually enjoy it" is a huge argument against nolan as a director
no
Frankly, i think this also goes to show that hes a massive snob. There is absolutely no reason he couldnt do the sound in two ways, one for the 70mm imax with perfect audio systems that cant be heard in other theaters, and another version just for the other theaters where the audio can be heard there. Him avoiding such a simple solution to bring his film to people to enjoy can only mean he doesnt want people to enjoy it unless they can afford to go a 70mm imax theater.
and for the record, i had no issue with the audio choices in his other movies though sometimes certain dialog gets drowned out a bit too much. something to consider, if a character is talking to someone and they can hear them, we should be able to as well unless like in tenat the person is ignoring what someone is saying so even they cant hear them.
it may ultimately come down to "hes made some good movies and some bad movies and while this technique can be useful, he can sometimes be bad at using it." not every director is good at everything and he just wants to pretend hes amazing and knows what hes doing.
also worth considering, directors have an important role, but their job isnt the entire movie, the script and actors are just as important. Some of his audio choices are great, but realistically... is he really even bringing that much to the table? if another director had made these movies would they have been worse or better?
Hopefully he learns from all the people crapping on his poor choices, but considering hes a snob, that wouldnt even happen even if he stopped beign hired and people stopped seeing his films, hes the type of person that would blame the audience for being too poor to see his movie in a imax theater.
@@jessiejanson1528 writing 5 paragraphs because you're seething that you can't afford a luxury good and then shitting on the creator. I'm glad bitter small people like you won't be sitting next to me at the premiere.
classist
In my area it costs like 5 more dollars. Hardly prohibitive.
Possibly one cause of the situation is that Nolan knows what the actors are saying. So when he mixes the dialogue under the other sounds, he can still understand what they're saying. Then he legitimately wonders why we normals can't hear the dialogue - it's obvious to *him* what the actors are saying.
That's a really good point, that probably could be it.
Yep, I can say from experience this is definitely an occupational hazard for film directors and editors!
You do realize that you are talking about Nolan here right and not a rookie Director?
@@ryuzaki6865 So what? That doesn't make him infallible!
@@lyndonlives638 I never said anything about being infallible, nobody's truly infallible, but the type of mistake u r associating with Nolan's work is too rookie and irrational for a Director of his level of experience, knowledge, and stature. It's like saying Michael Phelps, by mistake forgot to wear/bring his swimwear in an Olympic event, the chances of that happening is almost negligible (the only possibility of that happening is if someone actually gets dementia or some mental illness like that).
Besides, what the OP mentioned about the method of how the dialog, BGM and other scores are mixed and released as final product is so wrong that even I, who have zero experience in film making, can call BS. Either you assumed that it's ONLY the Director who mixes the dialogue along with other sounds and checks whether everything's properly audible himself, or you assumed that the whole post production team, mixer, sound engineer, Editor, Director, Producer and literally every single member of the team was aware of every single dialog in the film and hence they knew and understood what the actors were saying even under the high background scores, BOTH OF WHICH IS WRONG.
I first watched this at a cinema in France with french subtitles, I don’t speak french well and so I couldn’t easily follow the subtitles when the dialogue was inaudible. I was pretty miserable the whole film because I just didn’t understand what was happening; I couldn’t hear half the movie. It really put me off watching his films in the future because it was so infuriating. Mixing for only the best cinemas puts the majority of people out of your target audience, it’s just snobbery imo
I agree with you. At first, I tought this was a creative and artisitic choice but in fact, he is litteraly snobbing the people that can't afford a "good" theater.
it's elitist
@@showdaKOs that is literally not true
@@mcdeezyofficial what? that is "artistic vision" is only meant for the best material? wich exclude most movie theaters (and people)?
I thought tha's what was discussed in the video AND in the example above from Ellbat who described it as "I was pretty miserable the whole film", but hey, what do I know.
@@showdaKOs he isn’t snobbing at people that can’t afford a good theater that’s dumb asf obviously he wants the best quality audio so he’d optimize it to the best speakers you don’t call musicians snobby cuz they mix their songs with thousand dollar sound systems and not iphone speakers
This is the same problem with Oppenheimer. Ever since Inception, he has been obsessed with loud soundtrack along with dialogue which has an echo feel to it. Nolan ignores it which is really annoying.
Just use subtitles
@@antoniopaveskovic1990 They don't have subtitles at the theatre at least for me
Yep. Theater I went to for Oppenhiemer the dialog was unintelligable, way too many times. Annoying as hell, and very distracting, throwing the viewer out of the story. Horrible story telling technical and art. Can't understand it, if it can't communicate the story. Maybe it's a statement about modern society. We can't hear each other, and aren't listening to each other, so it doesn't matter what people are saying anymore. IDK, just a random thought.
Wait there were dialogues in tenet
I just thought everyone were just jamming to music while walking backwards
“It’s his right to make creative decisions, and it’s the audiences right to stop going if they don’t like those decisions. And it’s the critics’ and everyone’s right to discuss how effective these decisions are.”
Bravo. +1 Subscriber!
Yeah I liked the video upon hearing this sentence
yup - gained my subscription and All Updates!
Wow thats how npcs subscribe
literally the most basic take in the world
Yes. This. I wish there was a better term for this, but in writing class the professor taught us the creative principle that "The reader is always right." And that principle applies to many endeavors in life.
Making dialogue that isn't supposed to be heard is fine, but in alot of these scenes it's just bad. Not only because of different theatres, but also because some people just can't hear as good as others. Due to an operation of my right eardrum when I was four, I have sometimes troubles understanding things comming from that side. It's not that bad and I don't notice it most of the time, only when listening to quiet dialougue on top of other sound effects or music. Plus English also isn't my first language, so I have to listen closely when they explain stuff with lots of unusual words anyways. So when I watched Tenet I eventually gave up on trying to understand the dialogue. I mean you can understand most of the movie without any dialogue, but it makes you feel like you missed out on half the movie.
I can understand this might be an issue if you’re in the theaters but just use subtitles if you’re at home and have hearing problems
I think it's only logical for a bad movie to have a bad audio.
@@collinwoolford783 sure and he prob does, but that doesnt mean Tenet doesnt have bad/inane mixing.
I feel ya. Some childhood problems have damaged my hearing as well. I often tell people - "how tenet sounded to you, is how the whole world sounds to me every day"
If you can’t hear or don’t understand English go to a showing with subtitles. Basically all big theatres have them. Dumbing down movie dialogue to avoid ‘unusual words’ would be stupid.
People in other countries, who watched the movie with subtitles be like:
“I’m sorry, is this some sort of English-speaking problem that I am too foreign to understand?”
My sister is hard of hearing, so she always watches movies with closed captions. She didn't understand my grievences about the sound mixing lol.
Yeah. I never noticed an issue with Interstellar because of subs, but this movie just sounds annoying and like it would give me a headache
I also watch the movie with subtitles on as a non-native speaker. Tenet has one of my favorite audio mixes, I play it to show off my new home theater to my friends. I consider those creative choices as realistic choices and it only increases immersive feeling.
Or dubbed. I actually often have both because dubs often have crap translations lol.
I saw Tenet on IMAX. Huge problems with some dialogue scenes. Then I saw it in a standard theatre, and the sound mix was just the same. Even with my knowledge of the film by that point, I still had issues guessing what they were saying. 3rd viewing at home was much better, and made use of the sub track too. I love Nolan but this isn’t the way to make films.
same here, second time watching at home with the subtitles it made way more sense!
If you need to guess at important information as a movie viewer, then the director is doing it wrong.
As a native Portuguese speaker, I am used to subtitles and therefore this experience is almost alien to me in the sense that, to me, Nolan films are always awesome because I have never known Nolan without the subs
Spanish speaker and same lmao
Polish speaker, same
Estonian speaker, same
The high-end theater explanation definitely feels like an excuse. I watched Tenet in an IMAX theater and I could hardly understand any of the dialogue
same here lmao
Ditto
Yup me too
Same
@@robcol125 Don't you have subtitles in Imax?
I’ve taken audio postproduction classes, and we were told that if you’re gonna mix for high-end surround sound you HAVE TO MAKE SURE ITS STEREO COMPATIBLE. Even if you’re mixing for a 20.2 surround system, there’s tools that make it pretty easy to convert that to basic stereo so that’s not a good excuse. There’s artistic decisions then there’s bad decisions.
The point is that the high end mix should not be compromised for the clarity of the stereo rendering. That's what Nolan's team has decided. Remember that whatever you learn in classes is just the beginning of your journey. Cinematography "rules" really are guidelines, and they are all meant to be broken once mastered.
@@dsp4392 well in this case, with the movie being shown at any kind of theater, if you MUST make the main mix so fine tuned that it wouldn't work on stereo, it should have a mix available that would, accessibility should at least be taken into consideration at least to a reasonable degree, especially if your mix ruins the experience for the majority of your audience
@@refraggedbean All of this have nothing to do with stereo downmix, where did you get that ? He mixed with an object based project ...
Yeah... Cinema is a bussiness. If you make a product that disparages the majority of your consumer base, that is certainly an artistic choice you've the right to make. But it will cost you respect, reputation, and capital. And you'll have no right to complain about it. He can do what he wants, but understandably there are consequences.
Always nice to when an actual expert comes down to earth with it and explains how fucking dumb some of the proclaimed cinema greats are.