You’ll notice a lot of these methods are geared for grid line layout including inside buildings going vertical. Many surveyors working in the civil world (not all of course) don’t go inside the building once the outer grid lines offsets have been established. These methods detail tight tolerance work where points and angles must truly align. For many civil based tasks this is too high a level of effort, but for interior grid lines, machinery and assembly install with unforgiving tolerances, this is the whiz bam snappy.
@@leansurvey8212 absolutely ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. To paraphrase what a wise surveyor once told me (forgive the language) : "F***ing a fly doesn't require the same precision as f***ing an elephant."
Brings me back to my early days...layout out buildings/structures/conveyor systems using a Wild T16 theodolite & steel tapes. Turn a 90 and pull a chain as simple as it gets. Accurate and precise as heck tho.
Great comment. “Accurate and precise as heck”. There aren’t every day, every task practices- these are the precise as heck when its the right time practices.
I worked in the field back in the mid '90s, and there are hundreds of houses in Columbus, OH that were laid out with a T16 and a (fiberglass) tape. Different crew chiefs had different procedures, but the younger guys would do the COGO math up front, locate the front of the house projected to the side property line the house sat parallel to, set up there (because it simplified the math), and "spray out" the corners. To check, after setting all the hubs, you'd measure around, corner to corner to corner to make sure there weren't any blunders. Right at the end of my time in the field, the firm bought some lightweight construction total stations, and I think even started providing the layout data right from CAD. More often though, I was on the crews that were doing the initial boundary and topo work of a subdivision. It got exciting when you were laying out sanitary lines just a day before the excavators were digging them!
Thanks for the professionalism and knowledge. I am new to this and was wondering how I should go about learning more. I want to apply for a job as a layout engineer and Im really hoping I can get an idea as to where I should start. I want to be like you when I grow up 😅
I don’t recommend use of a robotic total station for work which involves turning fine angles, as it is never looking at the ground. It always tracks the prism. If you are occupying the instrument and setting and re-setting your backsight- you might as well be using a conventional instrument.
One thing missing is closing the rectangle and measuring the error. The distance measurements will never be perfect due to atmospheric variation, but that can be mitigated if you set up over one of the hubs and check that closing angle. In this scenario, I'd split the distances to get a perfect 90°.
Agreed! This video does not discuss closing the figure, just angular adjustment. Many surveyors and field engineers also choose to calculate and measure the diagonal across their square to check their overall results, while others check the closing angle as you described. All excellent methods. Know your task tolerances and do everything in your power to ensure your work is ready for the challenge.
@@leansurvey8212I think a good mental image is be aware of any time you're accumulating errors as you go, and have a way to measure that error to confirm tolerances, or adjust accordingly.
After you strike the hub on face 2 90 where do you set the rod? On the strike from face 1, 2, or in the center? Since you didn’t change your zero after striking the hub on face 2 your line would be off if you set the rod in the center or on face 1 strike?
Your individual instrument specifications will tell you to what repeatable distance your instrument will measure. If an instrument claims 0.005’ as some current total stations do, you will still see each measurement bouncing around in that 0.005’ ballpark. This video primarily discusses adjusting angle, there is a subsequent video regarding adjusting distances, points along a baseline, and double averaging your distances to achieve results at or better than that 0.005 specification.
Just a quick question, what exactly is the meaning of "accuracy" on a theodolite manual. To be specific the Futtura Dt10 states accuracy 20" 10" it was written exactly like that with a couple of spaces between 20 and 10.. thats mostly feet they are referring to right?
a short answer here however is that each reading has up to 20” of a degree of variance- so if you turn or observe an angle of 90-00-00, you might actually be looking at 90-00-20 or 89-59-40. You don’t know which, and you don’t even know if it’s the full 20 seconds.. you just know the instrument only warrants its accuracy to that level. At 100’, being off 20 seconds is about 0.01’ of error. At 200’ its double that error, at 300’ its triple, and so on. In other words, they know the construction of the theodolite isn’t perfect, but its at least better that 20 seconds perfect. Make sense?
Great video! If you had two man crew and set over one know point, would it be faster to stake out all the corners using the stake out option on a non robot total station if you already had your points uploaded? Any accuracy difference?
It would be faster, but would likely fail the required tolerance. With this conventional method, errors are kept to less than 0.005’. With a robot, no angular check, not sighting the ground and a typically high rod lots of error is introduced quickly- easily utilizing the entire 1/4” tolerance for grid line layout. Remember, our intent is to never use more than half of the available tolerance for a task because everyone who comes after us has less precise tools and will introduce their own errors.
@@leansurvey8212 believe digital instruments and robotic instruments have their advantages over conventional method. However, small prism of 100mm can be used to minimized error and increase the accuracy in order to get the expect tolerance.
@@emmanuelomolayo3980 the prism helps, but items like rod plumb (motion), the accuracy of your rod bubble itself, the height of your rod all factor in. I really love the “low to the ground” prism concept for tight tolerance work. Remember, just because the instrument display says its good, if we’re not looking at the point of the rod where it meets the ground we only know that the prism is in the right spot, not the work.
Home Depot, I just make sure it has two straps, one above the knee joint and one below. Also I prefer flexible pads so they give when they hit the ground instead of being inflexible and forcing the pad to move all over.
Yes, this video refers to them as Face 1 and Face 2. Remember though, the total station measures angles from a reference point, it does not measure bearing. Bearing is a known measurement from north or south.
This is a Sokkia IM 100, it is a 1 second total station, and an extreme key solid piece of equipment to work with. From a cost standpoint the 2 second version is more affordable and these methods or angular correction work just the same for either.
The surveyor is the first person to touch a task and likely has the most precise available equipment of the project site. With that understanding, we can assume that every subsequent person to touch the task will add their own degree of error. Thats why we’re shooting for a near perfect start. A good rule of thumb is for the surveyor or field engineer to use up no more than 1/2 of the total task tolerance. When prefabricated steel beams, glass storefront installations or assembly line components arrive (with their own imperfections of course) the more effort poured into the layout mitigating task tolerance, the more likely the project will avoid the cost and delay of sending components back or tearing out and adjusting to match. I sure wouldn’t layout curb like this, and most civil tasks have even looser tolerances.. but there is always a correct time and place for tight tolerance work.
I’ll even pour out a shot for him. This video relates primarily to building grid line layout. If y’all are putting a building in the swamp, be sure that your alligator ramps are built to ADA slope spec! the only thing worse than being bit by an alligator is being sued by one.
Lol! When I started, we would traverse using hubs and tacks through a swamp with a K&E mechanical transit, doubling each angle and measurements were made with a 100' steel tape measure using plumb bobs and chaining pins. The front man put down the pins and the rear man picked them up and placed them on a collector ring that was worn on his belt. Counting the chaining pins collected was how the total distance was determined.
@@MortezaEzadipanah This content is at the fundamental level for persons performing layout or grid line QC such as field engineers or survey technicians working inside the building. Robotic layout although utilizing much more expensive equipment is not as accurate at conventional work with corrected angles. Even the most expensive piece of equipment still has a feature to double angles for increased accuracy. This is no different. And it is about 30 thousands of dollars less expensive.
Aim small, miss small. If my philosophy is striving for perfection, my product will always be on its improvement path and I’ll always be aware of that fact that instrument capabilities, equipment and human errors must be considered, addressed and factored out of my work. The goal of Lean Survey is to standardize striving for perfection, and promote technique that pushes the needle in that direction rather than the industry acceptance of ‘good enough’. Thank you Lee.
![[UNCUT] เก็บ "สจ.โต้ง" เอี่ยวมาเฟีย รู้ตัวคนบงการ ก่อนสั่งลั่นไก I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 13 ธ.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o-J_p62D40w/mqdefault.jpg)
As a young surveyor who only ever worked with robotic TS, I find these high precision conventional methods really interesting ! Thank you
Ever chained before? Lol
You’ll notice a lot of these methods are geared for grid line layout including inside buildings going vertical. Many surveyors working in the civil world (not all of course) don’t go inside the building once the outer grid lines offsets have been established. These methods detail tight tolerance work where points and angles must truly align. For many civil based tasks this is too high a level of effort, but for interior grid lines, machinery and assembly install with unforgiving tolerances, this is the whiz bam snappy.
@@Violentwave6 call me on my “Nextel”
@@Violentwave6 can't say I have ! EDM was in common use before I was born hahaha
@@leansurvey8212 absolutely ! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. To paraphrase what a wise surveyor once told me (forgive the language) :
"F***ing a fly doesn't require the same precision as f***ing an elephant."
Very nice demo finally someone shows something useful imagine that. Thumbs up.
Thank you!
Brings me back to my early days...layout out buildings/structures/conveyor systems using a Wild T16 theodolite & steel tapes. Turn a 90 and pull a chain as simple as it gets. Accurate and precise as heck tho.
Great memories.
Great comment. “Accurate and precise as heck”. There aren’t every day, every task practices- these are the precise as heck when its the right time practices.
Adjust tape for heat & sag..
I worked in the field back in the mid '90s, and there are hundreds of houses in Columbus, OH that were laid out with a T16 and a (fiberglass) tape. Different crew chiefs had different procedures, but the younger guys would do the COGO math up front, locate the front of the house projected to the side property line the house sat parallel to, set up there (because it simplified the math), and "spray out" the corners. To check, after setting all the hubs, you'd measure around, corner to corner to corner to make sure there weren't any blunders.
Right at the end of my time in the field, the firm bought some lightweight construction total stations, and I think even started providing the layout data right from CAD.
More often though, I was on the crews that were doing the initial boundary and topo work of a subdivision. It got exciting when you were laying out sanitary lines just a day before the excavators were digging them!
Thanks for the professionalism and knowledge. I am new to this and was wondering how I should go about learning more. I want to apply for a job as a layout engineer and Im really hoping I can get an idea as to where I should start. I want to be like you when I grow up 😅
That's impressive surveying!
nice chainman rings could be tack holders!
Awesome I really learned a lot, how can this be done a a robotic instrument if I’m layout axis line and points?
I don’t recommend use of a robotic total station for work which involves turning fine angles, as it is never looking at the ground. It always tracks the prism. If you are occupying the instrument and setting and re-setting your backsight- you might as well be using a conventional instrument.
One thing missing is closing the rectangle and measuring the error. The distance measurements will never be perfect due to atmospheric variation, but that can be mitigated if you set up over one of the hubs and check that closing angle. In this scenario, I'd split the distances to get a perfect 90°.
Agreed! This video does not discuss closing the figure, just angular adjustment. Many surveyors and field engineers also choose to calculate and measure the diagonal across their square to check their overall results, while others check the closing angle as you described. All excellent methods. Know your task tolerances and do everything in your power to ensure your work is ready for the challenge.
@@leansurvey8212I think a good mental image is be aware of any time you're accumulating errors as you go, and have a way to measure that error to confirm tolerances, or adjust accordingly.
Excellent!
im starting as a apprentice surveyor this june. but i have no clue what i have to do...
Thank you very much sir you are doing very well. We are learning a lot from them.❤
nice great step to the best angle 90 degree ❤
This was very well presented. Great work.
Thank you!
Nice, never thought surveying youtube vids can be so cool!
After you strike the hub on face 2 90 where do you set the rod? On the strike from face 1, 2, or in the center? Since you didn’t change your zero after striking the hub on face 2 your line would be off if you set the rod in the center or on face 1 strike?
Looking forward to more content.
Impossible to measure within 0.005’. You are using the mean of your angles. Do you measure the diagonals?
Your individual instrument specifications will tell you to what repeatable distance your instrument will measure. If an instrument claims 0.005’ as some current total stations do, you will still see each measurement bouncing around in that 0.005’ ballpark. This video primarily discusses adjusting angle, there is a subsequent video regarding adjusting distances, points along a baseline, and double averaging your distances to achieve results at or better than that 0.005 specification.
Talk about splitting hairs. Lol 😆 🤣 😂
Is that expensive? How much is that kind of compass??
Can you please do a video of how to figure the height of an object using a theodolite. 🙏
Just a quick question, what exactly is the meaning of "accuracy" on a theodolite manual. To be specific the Futtura Dt10 states accuracy 20" 10" it was written exactly like that with a couple of spaces between 20 and 10.. thats mostly feet they are referring to right?
Can you email me at brandonm@elevateconstructionist.com?
a short answer here however is that each reading has up to 20” of a degree of variance- so if you turn or observe an angle of 90-00-00, you might actually be looking at 90-00-20 or 89-59-40. You don’t know which, and you don’t even know if it’s the full 20 seconds.. you just know the instrument only warrants its accuracy to that level. At 100’, being off 20 seconds is about 0.01’ of error. At 200’ its double that error, at 300’ its triple, and so on. In other words, they know the construction of the theodolite isn’t perfect, but its at least better that 20 seconds perfect. Make sense?
i hope they make more content on how to use land surveyor equiqment 😊
Thank for sharing
How you take the shot from que Telescope? I have a Channel about the same topic in spanish and want to film de view from the telescope.
I have fabricated a mount in some cases and used a filter overlay to highlight the crosshairs in other videos. Best of luck!
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
You are welcome!
Looking forward learning surveyor❤
Great video! If you had two man crew and set over one know point, would it be faster to stake out all the corners using the stake out option on a non robot total station if you already had your points uploaded? Any accuracy difference?
It would be faster, but would likely fail the required tolerance. With this conventional method, errors are kept to less than 0.005’. With a robot, no angular check, not sighting the ground and a typically high rod lots of error is introduced quickly- easily utilizing the entire 1/4” tolerance for grid line layout. Remember, our intent is to never use more than half of the available tolerance for a task because everyone who comes after us has less precise tools and will introduce their own errors.
@@leansurvey8212 believe digital instruments and robotic instruments have their advantages over conventional method. However, small prism of 100mm can be used to minimized error and increase the accuracy in order to get the expect tolerance.
@@emmanuelomolayo3980is there robotic TS equipped with prism of 100mm size in market yet?
@@atanlodeadedoyin6404 it always comes with Total station
@@emmanuelomolayo3980 the prism helps, but items like rod plumb (motion), the accuracy of your rod bubble itself, the height of your rod all factor in. I really love the “low to the ground” prism concept for tight tolerance work. Remember, just because the instrument display says its good, if we’re not looking at the point of the rod where it meets the ground we only know that the prism is in the right spot, not the work.
How to find RL
Thank you for sharing, your videos and content are verry helpfull.
Where did to purchase the knee pad?
Home Depot, I just make sure it has two straps, one above the knee joint and one below. Also I prefer flexible pads so they give when they hit the ground instead of being inflexible and forcing the pad to move all over.
Please can you explain how did you get 270° after measure 90° by the time ?
He turned to the left on the second point, one full rotation is 360 degrees if you subtract 90 you get 270
Won't you take the positive and the negative face to take average bearing?
Yes, this video refers to them as Face 1 and Face 2. Remember though, the total station measures angles from a reference point, it does not measure bearing. Bearing is a known measurement from north or south.
Поверхность воды на 10km плоская?
нет 0.005" ниже 😂
hi what is the model of the prism or brand please
This is the seco stakeout prism assembly.
thanks!@@leansurvey8212
What instrument are you using in this video?
This is a Sokkia IM 100, it is a 1 second total station, and an extreme key solid piece of equipment to work with. From a cost standpoint the 2 second version is more affordable and these methods or angular correction work just the same for either.
When will anything ever be built this precise?
The surveyor is the first person to touch a task and likely has the most precise available equipment of the project site. With that understanding, we can assume that every subsequent person to touch the task will add their own degree of error. Thats why we’re shooting for a near perfect start. A good rule of thumb is for the surveyor or field engineer to use up no more than 1/2 of the total task tolerance. When prefabricated steel beams, glass storefront installations or assembly line components arrive (with their own imperfections of course) the more effort poured into the layout mitigating task tolerance, the more likely the project will avoid the cost and delay of sending components back or tearing out and adjusting to match. I sure wouldn’t layout curb like this, and most civil tasks have even looser tolerances.. but there is always a correct time and place for tight tolerance work.
Great job 👍
How to get 90 degree with dgps?
You don't.
Good 👍
@@PataKhan-d7v Thank you!
I can’t believe I never thought of this! Everyone pray for my Rodman as I do a 50 point traverse(through the swamp) with this method😈😈
I’ll even pour out a shot for him. This video relates primarily to building grid line layout. If y’all are putting a building in the swamp, be sure that your alligator ramps are built to ADA slope spec! the only thing worse than being bit by an alligator is being sued by one.
Lol! When I started, we would traverse using hubs and tacks through a swamp with a K&E mechanical transit, doubling each angle and measurements were made with a 100' steel tape measure using plumb bobs and chaining pins. The front man put down the pins and the rear man picked them up and placed them on a collector ring that was worn on his belt. Counting the chaining pins collected was how the total distance was determined.
Thankyou
Great
@@ChalaBido Thank you!
@@ChalaBido I really appreciate that!
0:31 bonsoir
I love it
perpendicular angle are not same respectively
Best expln
I found this video/info very interesting.
👍👍👍
It is a very low and down level in surveying
@@MortezaEzadipanah This content is at the fundamental level for persons performing layout or grid line QC such as field engineers or survey technicians working inside the building. Robotic layout although utilizing much more expensive equipment is not as accurate at conventional work with corrected angles. Even the most expensive piece of equipment still has a feature to double angles for increased accuracy. This is no different. And it is about 30 thousands of dollars less expensive.
The perfect 90 is impossible. You can be close but never perfect. Exact doesn’t exist in surveying . Sincerely Lee Allen Schroeder PLS
Aim small, miss small. If my philosophy is striving for perfection, my product will always be on its improvement path and I’ll always be aware of that fact that instrument capabilities, equipment and human errors must be considered, addressed and factored out of my work. The goal of Lean Survey is to standardize striving for perfection, and promote technique that pushes the needle in that direction rather than the industry acceptance of ‘good enough’. Thank you Lee.