Sonic 3 Prototype - Knuckles Leftovers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2019
- I apologize for the thumbnail. Some data still remains for Knuckles in the Sonic 3 prototype.
Codes to "play" as Knuckles:
FFEF4C:0003
FFFF08:0003
FFFF0A:0003
FFB038:0200 ~ Possibly not needed.
FFFA80:0101 ~ Enables harder bosses.
For more info visit: tcrf.net/Proto:Sonic_the_Hedg...
info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_...
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Sonic gets the Robotnik signpost... Freezes in shock.
Are... Are we the baddies?
@@SpeciallyTrainedDerp sonic: WHA...?!
You just stole my comment idea
@@RefriedBeanie srry bro
@@daisygeymonat6693 lol nah bruv I'm fine
Still find it so crazy that Sega broke the game into two parts and managed to rake in regular retail for each when it was supposed to be a single cartridge.
I feel for many of our parents who shelled out. I remember I got Sonic Spinball for Christmas '93, and S3 for my birthday June '94 and S&K for Christmas '94.
According to what someone said, we are dumb holes if we want it all into a single cartridge, because Sega has good enough reasons to split the game into two parts. Some dummy thought that the whole thing could not fit in a single cartridge, and posted a fake interview with a Sega member about it, but according to Sega, it could all fit into one single cartridge, but they wanted to divide the game into two parts for good enough reasons.
Sega broke the game into two parts, so that they can make more money for both games or if they had everything accessible, the sale would be too high. People been asking Sega, and according to Sega, it's something to do with the sale price. It's really awesome that they done that, especially if they are doing a very good sale with it.
@@bennel3588 I mean what was it like $60 a game back then? I'm sure it would have been better to pay $80 for one than $120 for two. If the cost of the chips was even an issue. I remember hearing that marketing wanted S3 rushed out to coincide with McDonalds toys or something.
@@netsendjoe I would have preferred to buy the whole game for $120. So the marketing was behind this. What if Sega wanted Sonic & Knuckles to be capable of more than just continue Sonic the Hedgehog 3? I think they wanted to add more blue sphere zones, so you play those left out blue sphere zones if you put Sonic the Hedgehog 1 on top of it. I think they wanted Knuckles to have a journey through the zones in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, so if you put Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on top of it, it becomes Knuckles in Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
There were a few reasons for splitting the game into two. The main reason was the deadline with the McDonald's marketing deal that Sega had spent millions on. This deadline had been planned for, but Sega had been working on a 3D version of Sonic 3 utilizing the SVP (Super Virtual Processor) chip for 6 months of development, before scrapping the idea as the new 3D chip wouldn't be ready in time. Restarting development in June, Sega worked hard to finish the game in time for the deal. At some point it became clear that they would not be able to reach the deadline, and so they planned to release the first half of the game as a standalone title. The game would be split evenly with 7 zones for each half. Throughout this whole time Sega was working on the full 24Mbit game labeled 'S3C' with a 16Mbit build mode called 'S3A' that would exclude the S&K data. Apparently at some point however, the original 7 zones reserved for S&K was cut down with HPZ and SSZ, which left the S&K side noticeably smaller. Flying Battery was also behind schedule so the decision to move it over to S&K was made. The development for S3A wrapped up on November 20th 1993 and the game was initially released on February 2nd, 1994. Work continued on the 24Mbit version of the game that would be initial release of Sonic 3 in Japan. Once again, the deadline could not be met as Sonic 3 began to be imported into Japan from surrounding countries. Realizing that S3C would not be finished in time, Sonic 3A was finally released in Japan on May 27th, 1994. The plan for Sonic & Knuckles (Sonic 3B) had also been decided at this point and Sonic 3C was separated into S&K, which would release in October of the year.
Now, Sonic 3C/Sonic 3 Limited Edition, assuming it was released, would have cost a fair bit more than each standalone game due to the increased manufacturing cost of the larger ROM. Would it have cost more than Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles combined? Probably not, but Sega realized this and added extra content to make the purchase seem more worthwhile. This included the addition of Knuckles in Sonic 2, as well as the Blue Spheres minigame.
I realize that this was a long write-up, but I felt that it was necessary in order to sufficiently show situation at the time. For reference, the prototype that we have (November 3rd, 1993) is a prototype of S3A, with leftovers of S3C builds.
>Knuckles plays as an extremely broken Tails
That's basically Wechidna in reverse
I mean, you're not wrong about that.
Welp.. what should we call this?
Sonic 3 & Tails
It's a mixture of Wechnia and Tails the Blue Echidna That the Game Treats as Sonic
Wow, we could searched for answers in Knuckles’ Chaotix this whole time lmao
I guess we call this Tails...Reils? He’s not red like Wechinda being white, but it works I guess
2:50 the signpost shows Robotnik instead of Sonic
Sonic: D=
ahaha true!!
Katherine sonjon the hell does that mean
I remember in the real game, when the sign is spinning, it does show Robotnik when looking closely. I think I did find out why by now. I think this was supposed to be like the Sonic game on Game Gear, where Robotnik gives out nothing, Sonic gives a 1-up, Ring gives 10 extra rings, Exclamation Point gives bonus round, Tails gives an extra continue, and Flicky has you run as far or fast as you can for extra points. Some of these signs would be removed, because some of them are absent for certain games.
Me when Sonic 1 & 2 SMS/GG signpost mechanic is in Sonic 3 November 1993 Prototype:
@Katherine Johnson Tailnuckles can fly and climb walls. Sonotnik is fast and can create robots. Tailotnik can fly and can create robot. Sonucles is fast and can climb walls.
2:50
Sonic 1 and 2 SMS goal plate be like:
Sonic CD: collision chaos
Sonic 3 prototype: no collision chaos
Best comment
Best comment
Best comment
Best commment
Best comment
Knuckles looked so badass with his beta sprites
0:18 he scared him away.
We got weird broken-down blue knuckles
2:49 *Robotnik signpost*
Sonic: *Surprised Pikachu*
fun fact: While I was playing this, I took Knuckles' (unfinished) route in the torched angel island and somehow beat the Sonic act 2 boss while still technically in act 1. But the cutscene to hydrocity went fine, even though it said I was in act 2.
angel island actskip%
Ironic how Knuckles uses Tails' sprites here and how Tails' leftovers in Chaotix use Knuckles' Sprites, also the Badniks look better with Red colors for some reason
2:49
Sonic: "Let's see, what are we going to get?"
*Eggman shows up
"What the fu-"
Pretty cool how knuckles has a whole underwater section to the game!
it’s not supposed to be under water it just is because he’s sonic
The unused ending is used in Sonic 3 AIR after beating big arms. This transitions to mushroom valley
It's used in S3&K final as well in the same way (though I believe Eggrobo lacks the small attachment on the eggmobile). I think what's noteworthy here is that it implies Big Arm was not originally intended and does not consider an animal capsule.
It fascinates me how different unfinished games were back then than they are now
A lot of unfinished smaller games are drastically different to their final version, even AAA releases.
FUTURE10S I was more talking about how glitchy and weird this prototype is. As someone who has made a game before it’s quite surprising as well how different the final product can be too
@@will.2155 I've been working on a handful of games and I've been intentionally leaving snippets of development behind, like old maps that are no longer connected, old graphics, and so on, even though tilemap data typically breaks afterwards. That's fun for everyone.
FUTURE10S I went back to a project once that was made on an older version of the engine and found it looking like this prototype
2:56 sonic is like WOAH why is it eggman no wonder hes like :O
0:12 Knuckles Bug Where his Sprite is tails
2:50
Signpost : R O B O T N I K
Sonic : *Takes damage*
*R O B O T O*
Am i a weirdo?
Interesting finds as always, thank you!
2:51
Singpost: *Robotnik*
Sonic: *AAAAAAAAA*
The transition of the bridge breaking at the end of Launch Base Zone with Knuckles, seems like it would lead to a water level or an underground level instead of Mushroom Hill Zone.
Or Lava Reef after Launch Base
@@autosaver That makes sense because we can see the pyramids in the background of launch base zone act 2 so maybe underwater instead of the pyramids (sandopolis zone) can be a path to Lava Reef/Hidden Palace zone.
Here I come - rougher than the rest of them
The best of them - tougher than leather
You can call me Knuckles - unlike Sonic, I don't chuckle
I'd rather flex my muscles
I'm hard as nails - it ain't hard to tell
I break 'em down whether they solid or frail
Unlike the rest, I'm independent
Since my first breath, first test
Feel the right, then the worst's left
Born on an island in the heavens
The blood of my ancestors flows inside me
My duty is to save the flower from evil deterioration - yeah
I will be the one to set your heart free true
Cleanse yourself with them evil spirits that's in you
Streaking lights, loud sounds, and instinct
Are the elements that keep me going
I am fighting my own mission
Nothin's gonna stand in my way
No, no
I will be the one to set your heart free true
Cleanse yourself with them evil spirits that's in you
Won't be frightened - I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself - won't rely on others
Get this power to wipe out the havoc and anarchy
This is my planet - gonna fight for my destiny
Here I come - rougher than the rest of them
The best of them - tougher than leather
You can call me Knuckles - unlike Sonic, I don't chuckle
I'd rather flex my muscles
I'm hard as nails - it ain't hard to tell
I break 'em down whether they solid or frail
Unlike the rest, I'm independent
Since my first breath, first test
Feel the right, then the worst's left
I have no such things as weak spots
Don't approve of him, but gotta trust him
This alliance has a purpose
This partnership is only temporary - yeah
I will be the one to set your heart free true
Cleanse yourself of evil spirits that got in you
Won't be frightened - I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself - won't rely on others
Freedom will be waiting when serenity is restored
This is my planet - I shall not surrender
Won't be frightened - I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself - won't rely on others
I get this power to wipe out the havoc and anarchy
This is my planet - gonna fight... I... (oh)
Won't be frightened - I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself - won't rely on others
Freedom will be waiting when serenity is restored
This is my planet - I shall not surrender
Yeah
Shall not surrender - no
Yeah
Woo... Woo!
The new porcupine on the block with the buff chest
Outta wilderness, with the ruggedness
Knock-knock - it's Knuckles - the bloat thrower
Independent flower
Magical Emerald holder
Give you the coldest shoulder
My spike goes through boulders
That's why I stay a loner
I was born by myself
I don't need a posse - I get it on by myself
Adversaries get shelft
Right on
Jeez brother
@@rrodnotfake unlike sonic i dont chuckle
"You can call me Knuckles - unlike Sonic, I don't chuckle,"
In only one sentence they retconned the entirety of Sonic 3.
@@SilverSonic1992 (no offense) retconned? Did you say reconnected or is that another word?
@@rrodnotfake "retconned" is the past tense of the word "retcon", which it means to "take out" or "ignore" original information in favor of something that's entirely new instead. This term is usually used in movies or video games that have a lot of story.
Knuckles chuckles in Sonic 3, but in Knuckles' theme in Sonic Adventure, he states that unlike Sonic, he doesn't chuckle, so if that were to be taken as a fact, Sonic 3's chuckling Knuckles is no longer canon, which means that the old information is no longer accepted as truth.
I hope this makes sense. :)
2:51 gets robotnik sign post:
sonic: =0
R O B O T O N I S M A R T A
Am i a weirdo?
@@OfficialOacus Ummmmmmmm
Tails: Sonic You Scared?
*hits a spring*
*Illegal instruction*
I really dig these proto Sonic and Knuckles sprites, wish they were used for the final version
Or maybe Knuckles in Sonic 2.
I seriously hope we can find an earlier build with Knuckles!
Same.
Tbf I hope we can find an earlier build in general. It would be really cool
Few questions:
· Does code for his gliding ability still exist?
· Is it possible to create a Knuckles character using data from the final game and using his spirites in this game and make it functionable?
· Does sprites for Eggrobo exist.
Well since this is a prototype, they might not be possible.
1. The gliding code would have been a part of the Knuckles object, which is removed.
2. Not easily done currently without a disassembly.
3. If they did exist, they also would have been removed.
The sad part about this prototype is that half of the content is gone, and will likely never be seen.
@Jake P A lot of his other sprites are present but unlike the ones in the intro, they're mostly final.
what about using lock on tech with sonic and knuckles?
@@thisnameisbad3609Late, but it fails due to the Sonic 3 data being incomplete and in the wrong locations.
3:42 - 3:47 Chocolate-flavored Bubbles. My favorite Badnik.
I always wonder, mecha sonic was developed for s&k or could be at least a prototype in sonic 3
Well,mecha sonic is not in this prototype because mecha sonic was in s&k but the prototype haves the zones of s&k but they can't be accesed because it was very Hard to do
@guillermo contreras i was wondering if big arms was in the prototype but its non-existent
I really like Knuckles with the Sonic 2 look, it suits him. Also, Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas too!
Were you referring to the Sonic 2 signpost graphics? Merry Christmas to you as well!
@@SilverSonic1992 Yeah, the shading on them is much better than the final!
Knuckles looks great the thumbnail looks even better perhaps the fact that its the prototype sonic 3 logo and not the one seen in the final game has something to do with it
I like how in this build Sonics side of the sign post is diffrent from the final version xD
Signposts in this prototype:
Sonic & Tails: Sonic's
Sonic: Tails'
Tails: Knuckles'
Knuckles: Robotnik's
2:48 - замедлите и взгляните на Синего Наклза на табличке
The broken collision reminds me of cartridge tilting Knuckles in Sonic 2...hmmmmm
I was funny expecting a red sonic but tails after a glitch title card is incredibly funny.
At the end of launch base you can see sandopolis in the back ground when knuckles escapes. Imo I think that was to be next stage after.
idk why I lost it when Sonic turned into a ring, just to maneuver around to unreachable heights lol
My right ear burns with every collected ring
Plus, since the sonic and tails sprites were from S2, this prototype had an earlier Knuckles design, it looks like he is capable to be in Sonic 2 by any chance because if you connect the second game on SK, you can play as Knuckles in S2.
Dont you mean tails?
it could be that like with mushroom valley and the rest of the s&k zones, they could've been removed because they were in the process of splitting the game in two
or it could be that knuckles simply wasn't implemented that much, as iirc knuckles is a bit more complete in s3a
that thumnail is 👌
in this protoype, I managed to do a screenwrap trick in Marble Garden Zone Act 2 and got to the boss, I needed debug mode to place platforms to stand on to defeat the boss, but once I defeated it, nothing happened, I was stuck in the boss area since the game never moved on to the next zone. surprised I could defeat the boss in the first place.
Merry christmas.
Sonic feels slow when walks on Water in every Stage since Sonic 1, Sonic 2 and even Sonic 3!
That's the point. Water is one of Sonic's greatest obstacles, since he can't swim.
no shit einstein
So knuckle is tails
MY THEORY WAS CORRECT
Nice Thumbnail.
Very interesting
Blue Knuckles was even in the prototype...who knew
I have a question: What appens when you copy the data of Big Arms from Sonic 3 (Alone) and paste it in this prototype?
Introducing Miles Sonic Prower The -Echidna- Fox
At least in the prototype version acessing Knuckles' Route there's no screenlock!
0:25 glitches jump sound
Just a random question, but I heard Sonic 2 was built on Sonic 1, and Sonic 3 on Sonic 2. Would it be possible to load the title screen of Sonic 1 in Sonic 2, and Sonic 2's in Sonic 3? This should make the game glitch as it would try to load a non- existent stage, right? Edit: The title screen should also be glitched as a result of the graphics being deleted or something, right? I'm pretty new to this stuff
Going to try this 1 next!!! Super awesome.... if only Sega weren't overloaded with CD, 32x, Saturn, GameGear AND Genesis projects in those days,,, might have had even better/more complete sonic games instead of what was rushed for Sonic 3.
no it was rushed due to McDonald’s sponsor sonic 3 was separately developed by sonic team
Cool!
So *that's* why Blue Knuckles is called Miles.
knuckles is playable in the 2P mode
dang who knew the key to stop drowning was turning into a *ring*
I Hope We Get A August/September 1993 Build Of S3 🤞🏻
Thumbnail is knuckles 3 and knuckles
Ok, so, out of curiosity, what if you put proto sonic 3 into sonic & knuckles?
I always wondered why the final knuckles text looked bad
0:28 the number of the character is AB
I’m surprised that there are Knuckles leftovers in this prototype considering that there’s barely any in the final version,but it’s still pretty cool.
Pd: Knuckles wasn’t supposed to fight Big Arms either? I wonder if they wanted to get rid of it completely for Sonic 3 & Knuckles or just make it a Sonic-exclusive boss.
It could be that they added it later, because fighting one easy boss was considered very anticlimactic.
Влад Док That’s a good point.
It’s either that or they just wanted to make Knuckles’ fight harder since he’s supposed to be the game’s hard mode.
This prototype is during splitting process so yeah its normal theres more left here than the final
Knuckles had too many chaos emeralds.
I don't know how I did it but I have footage of me somehow force-loading a super Sonic box Instead of an invincibility box in this prototype
If the code inside contains Knuckles leftovers, maybe this game has the Lock-on avaliable, probably can works and call some missing commands inside the game, but need a bit of investigation for this prupose
4:38 OW
What would happen if you managed to connect the & Knuckles part to the prototype?
Would you get the "No Way!" screen?
Since this build is based off Sonic 2, it would probably result in a broken version of Knuckles in Sonic 2.
You are the best♥️👍👍👍
I kinda like the old Angel Island Music.
on my rom of sonic 3, the knuckles passed act x thing are just the sprites of the chicken animals
I looked at the Sonic 3 development page with the beta screenshots, and I found out that most of them are identical to the Nov, 3 1993 prototype
Then I found this other screenshot of Angel Island Zone where Sonic encounters Knuckles, but the characters are using their final sprites, but the cutscene is in an early state, because of the green hud displaying.
So my theory is that there could be another prototype of Sonic 3, just not released yet. I'm not sure yet, I'm just guessing
You be correct. In software development (which includes games) thousands of builds are created throughout development. In the case of Sonic 3 however, only a select few of these builds actually would have actually left Sega. The fact that we found any build of Sonic 3 is remarkable as this may have actually been the only build released to the press. Those other later builds that you mention may have only been images that Sega sent to various magazines at the time. Likewise, there are even earlier builds that have not seen the light of day. Leftover data exists in this prototype that contains data for two older S3C builds of the game - with a playable Knuckles and S&K zones. This is actually how we were able to completely restore Lava Reef Act 1.
@@SilverSonic1992 So, I know Lava reef zone could be restored in this prototype, by using assets from the S3C Builds.
However, is it possible to restore any other sonic and knuckles zones using assets from S3C???
Because, on one of your videos, I saw that you manage to restore mushroom hill zone in the final version of Sonic 3, by using the map from the 0408 build.
At that point it wouldn't really be restoring if everything was taken from 0408, it would be porting. For instance, Lava Reef is already the final design in 0408 so it wouldn't really be accurate to restore it. Since the only zone that could be saved from the leftover data of S3C builds (that we don't have) was Lava Reef Act 1, none of the other S&K zones can be restored.
2:50 eggman won sonic is shocked!
Its bluckles from last time:0
You should load hydrocity and flying battery zone in sonic 3 alone
Out of curiousity, does the Knuckles palette in this game use the pinker colors that NPC Knuckles uses in the final, or are they the same level of redness as final player Knuckles?
The Knuckles player palette, as well as the old cutscene use the redder palette, while all the other cutscenes use the pinkish one.
WOW
Question, you play as Sonic with “some of Knuckles’ behavior enabled,” what exactly does remain of Knuckles?
Also, could you just import Knuckle’s sprites from a later build?
Knuckles's player object is gone, so all that there really is are some checks in the code for Knuckles's character ID which can still affect certain things. This would include things like the signpost, act clear text, breakable walls, etc.
How did u be sonic instead of .. i guess knuckles? What codes did u disable or enable?
Looks like sonic 06 with the collision
0:37 that music tho
Cool prototype music.
Early Knuckles Sprites it is Knuckles on Sonic 3 PAL box art
*_Sign: *Shows Eggman instead of Sonic.*_*
*_Sonic: O H N O E S_*
*ROBOTO* *NI* *SMARTA*
Am i a weirdo?
Oh no.
Blueckles
00:24 BLUUUUE
Why is Knuckles Tails in the beta but Sonic in the final?
Was Knuckles originally gonna be built off of Tails but changed to Sonic? Could this explain why Knuckles has the unused grayed out sprite from Sonic 1 in most 3C prototypes?
No, it's just that Knuckles's object was removed and it appears to just be defaulting to Tails. In the final game, they made Knuckles load the Sonic object.
Sonic 3 Prototype
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And Knuckles
The reson knuckles Is a broken tails is because:its got broken and unfinished data from tails and a tiny bit of knuckles data and with all that data loaded in it can not load in some of the collision or sprites aswell as broken colour palettes
Well that is what I think
i have no idea what I meant
Hello! Im knuckles the fox!
Umm Knuckles, are you okay?
BUSTAH WOLF
Why is it that anything involved with Knuckles and Tails Creates a Blue Knuckles? I really need to know!
Also, Why Did Outfit7 Only To Chinaeooekeekeoeoekekeie the stomach world stomach world of days and I Love Angela I'm so glad she is doing to my cat Piano and I Love Angela 1111'11111919191919191919191 and I Love Angela so much
Didn't this prototype contain leftovers from Sonic & Knuckles before they decided to split the game?
It did in the level select You can acess them but there is no ground ay least lava reef got revive by Sonic fans
Tails : wtf bugs? HELP ME
me but bug : xd
Why does the ring sound only go to my right ear
Its possible to do it with only 1 code?
i prefer call you "Mecha Sonic" because is the real name of the robot :)
KnuckTails the name broken is my game