I don't know why people are overly sensitive! As a person of color, seriously, this book was not racist and people just chose to see what they want and disregard any other things this book presents in the story.
Cami Castaneda I will not read it mainly because I don’t think Roth is a good writer, but I also did not criticize it. What I said was that the original poster can’t speak for everyone just because they are a person of color. The book might not have been racist to the original poster, but to other people it was. Just because you’re a person of color doesn’t mean your opinions represent all people of color.
I totally understand where you're coming from and agree that it is a personal thing. But my argument is that what they're are saying is racist in the book isn't there, to begin with. It's like if someone were upset that they talk about the holocaust in a book, but that book doesn't even mention the holocaust. The lady took down her blog post probably because it was pointed out she was wrong and had egg on her face.
Honestly, I think people are becoming overly sensitive nowadays and will pick out and criticise things just to make them about racism/sexism/etc. It's a two sided coin because while I am happy that people are more vocal about their thoughts and when they see something wrong, I feel like some people can call things out just because they're overly critical and forever trying to put two things together.
i can understand that. i, too, really appreciate that more people feel compelled to be outspoken about things that are harmful or wrong in the stories they consume, but i also see times where things are made out of nearly nothing. (clearly, this is how i feel about the racism allegation in carve the mark lol)
I think that because of the political climate more people are reduced to labeling things as being oppressive. It's the new trend. Nowadays everyone's a victim of everything and it's funny how people are trying to find hidden messages. "The book's background is dark blue representing evil and the font is white representing good.' 😂
OMG I started watching this and I was like "Racism in Carve the Mark? What? I mean I read it twice!" so I just kept on watching and thank God someone thinks like me!😂 This review is amazing and really on spot so thank you
As a person of color, I agree with everything you said! Personally, didn't love the writing style but I understand it if people enjoyed it. Also, appreciated the comments on pacing and world building. 😊👏🏽❤️
Gifts don't have to be good. They can be perceived in two correct ways: A gift given from the current, like a present, or a natural ability or talent- in Cyra's case, not a talent. Gifts have good connotation. People confuse the definition of gift with the connotation of it- generally being good, something a family or friend gives you for a birthday. But that would not be correct in this book. Like you stated, for nearly half the book, Cyra suffers deeply as she is in pain from her gift (again, gifts do not have to be good). Also, in no way did Veronica Roth ever state that she used the same.. disease?.. illness? as her friend, she said she *based* Cyra's current gift off of it. She took the central IDEA of it and branched it out to make it completely different and to match her story. Those are two different things. I also do not believe that there is any racism in Carve the Mark. For anyone who believes it so, read her blog post thoroughly. Veronica was explaining herself; explaining the book better. She was not trying to apologize, and she does not have to if she doesn't write a racist book. Proof Carve the Mark is not racist: Akos has Shotet ancestry. He is said many times to be pale. He is not brutal. This shows that Shotet are, by no means, NATURALLY brutal. They BECOME so overtime when raised in Shotet. The place Shotet and the Shotet people are different-- for example, being asian does not necessarily mean you live somewhere in Asia. It does not mean you take on their traditions. They are traditions, you are not born knowing traditions-- just like Shotet are not born brutal and that is important to know. If someone who was born in Thuvhe but was taken to Shotet as a little baby, chances are they would act brutally as well-- even though they are Thuvhesit. Cyra states, even on the back of the book itself, that herself and Akos became what they were made to become. Cyra is not said to be brutal because she is dark skinned, she is said to be brutal because the people who raised her were-- and they were not dark skinned. Also, not all Thuvhesit are pale. Some have darker skin. Same goes for the Shotet, not all are dark. Just because the main character is doesn't mean all are.
starlit gaming YES! I've been trying to explain this. In addition, Cyra was talking ahout her brother, whom she called cruel. She said he was not born that way, but made, and now he must be unmade
I'm glad to hear that you didn't think it was racist because that's all I've been hearing about this book. I still have to read it, though, and form my own opinion. 📚✨
I haven't read Carve the Mark because all of the controversies surrounding it and after only hearing so much negative things but now after hearing your thoughts I might give it a go just to see what I think.
i just finished reading carve the mark for the second time and i was so confused when i heard that people think its racist like whatttt i love this book so much and i dont think its racist at all ._. and being someone who did cut and hurt myself for years i didnt even think while reading the book that it had issues bc of "self-harm" i saw the carving the mark as making a tattoo people are just creating drama for nothing
This is so thoughtfully done and well executed! I still haven't read the book so obviously I can't speak to the controversy surrounding it but I commend you for putting a review out that contrasts the popular notions about this book. Also, it's wonderful how much textual evidence that you used to support your claims. It's obvious that a ton of work and thought went into this video and I really applaud you for that!!
thank you so much for your kind comment!! i was a little scared to put my thoughts out there, but seeing other people (like francina simone) definitely gave me more courage.
Justina Ireland is known for being aggressive on social media and have quite an aggressive fandom, so it doesn't surprise me it was her who started this whole thing. Thank you so much for this review! I recently started following you and I started watching your videos from oldest to newest and I have to say you're a breath of fresh air. I love how you are always honest and say what you think regardless of other people's opinions that may be more popular in the community. I will always appreciate a reviewer who isn't afraid to be honest and speak their mind. Huge kudos! You're amazing!
I love how all the controversies like this one are always superficial. I guess these people who blow things up like this don't understand metaphors and similes and what concepts in a story represent on a higher level. When did reading go from being an adventure in thoughts and ideas and exploring those concepts wholeheartedly to being a finger-pointing, self-righteous industry that only cares about not being racist/ableist/sexist/misogynist/etc. so that everyone feels safe and emotionally validated?
Literary culture was traditionally hypercritical. All critiques are not justified, but I find this new mainstream culture that frames literary criticism as toxic or negative to be rather juvenile. There was a time when writers expected others to debate about the message and social implications behind their work. Now, love triangles and teenage angst is apparently all that we are supposed to give a fuck about.
hmm... interesting thoughts, and i really appreciate you sharing them! i think reading can be both an adventure in thoughts/ideas while also being subject to criticism and rigorous examination through the lenses of racism/ableism/sexism/misogyny. although i don't think literature's main purpose is to make sure everyone feels safe and emotionally validated, i do think that's a noble goal nonetheless!
thebookbasement I mean, understand and accept that criticism I just feel like it happens a little too much. like it's an oppression checklist or something lol. I dunno, maybe I'm just jaded haha
I loved this book a ton even though my opinion is TOTALLY bias it was one of my favourites. Divergent has a special spot in my heart because it was the first series that really got me into reading and I was utterly obsessed with it. When Carve The Mark came out I was super hesitant to buy it because of the price (lol) and I built up an idea in my head that I wont love it as much as divergent. When I finally bought it I read it and instantly my comparison with Divergent had oblitherated. Like you said the character relationships and ground personalities were still similar which was probably why I loved it. But overall I loved reading it.
Controversy that starts way before a release day sometimes scares me. People ended up not reading and not having it's own opinion. Or worst hating on people that actually read and had a different view/liked it. Carve the Mark has so much controversy yet I still think that I might read it one day :) Like I read Red Queen this past month, most people hated it and for me it wasn't as bad as I expected
wow, i didn't even know red queen had controversy around it lmao. but yeah, when controversy starts BEFORE a book is published, i think it's best to be skeptical.
I always LOVE your reviews and your book talks. Also GIRL THAT MUSTARD COLORED SHIRT LOOKS BOMB ON YOU!!! I mean the over all look is giving me life Back to video: "did these people finish reading the book?" 😂 no...if they did, they shouldn't admit it. "The current is a stream of power" 🤔 😂 I just realized how unoriginal that term is 😂😂 and yet how smart it is. The "I am stronger" is honestly a rhetoric that people through traumatic events can and often do feel. As you said, people's feelings are valid. Still I think if we say that perspective is valid, then so is someone's (like me) view that is relatable. I agree with the Self Harm portion...though I thought the characters sometimes got close to the line (as traumatized teens would in this situation) but it wasn't romanticized. Totally agree about the book itself. 😂"it doesn't quite hit the mark" every time I hear that about this book I laugh because I'm a sucker for puns. The memory swap....yeah I didn't get it. Also I don't get how you can memory swap with people and not be a confused person lol like a perch work. Anyway. LOVED THIS❤️
THANKS, GIRL. honestly your video gave me courage to put my own two cents into the discussion, too. and yes, if we say that one group of people's feelings are valid, then that validity must extend to the people who feel the opposite.
I love that you and Francina have made videos "debunking" this controversy! I mean I haven't read the book and don't know if I will but I really don't like it how book twitter handles things nowadays. I recently read Nevernight and I'd read someone (who hadn't even read the book) blaming it on similar things as with this controversy. and then I read the book and found all accusations completely wrong? I just don't know what tweets to trust anymore tbh. like just recently there was talk of Sanderson's alleged homophobia (from years ago) and everyone was immediately like "I guess I won't read his books then" and no one paid attention to the people replying with links were he had admitted he was wrong and apologized?? like aren't people even allowed to change anymore smh. either way, great video!
wow, i had never even heard about the sanderson allegations. that's so interesting!! book twitter can be really helpful and really intelligent, but at other times, it can be a bit of a chaotic, hateful storm...
To be honest I haven't heard any of this controversy over this book because I really didn't have any need or want to read it so I didn't look into it at all. It's very interesting to hear about it though and your thoughts on it as well. I definitely feel like I want to read this a bit more now, and I appreciate your review!
I'm annoyed by the book tubers who are retracting their statements of this book being good. I think if you advertise yourself as an honest reviewers and book publishers send you books then you are to a degree their your employer. You've reneged on what yourself promote on your channel. So how truthful are your other reviews? Thank you for not being scared to go against the norm.
it is a bit frustrating that that happened, but also understandable. especially in this time when people are very vocal about problems such as racism, no one wants to be labeled a "racist" for liking a book such as this one. they're scared of the backlash, and with good reason, considering book twitter/goodreads can be really, really vicious.
I get the pressures of wanting to be popular and maintain a controversial free channel especially when they come at flocks to attack people. However it makes me doubt their claim as an honest book reviewer when a statement is retracted or changed. Then again to be fair there is a lot of pressure to put out videos that everyone will like and agree with. In a way it isn't their fault that this book is controversial now to review.
I MISSSED YOU. omg yes veronica roth is definitely tHAT author SAME TSHIRTS EVERYTHING DIVERGENT IS GREATNESS I CANNOT. same divergent is mah baby. YES I WAS SO EXCITED. in my review i didn't talk about ti because the book was fricken wONDERFUL and the controversies in it were really not even things to me and people really overreact. I wanted - in my review - to talk about the GREATNESS of the book rather than focus on what everyone else does. I don't see anything racist about it and I am a person of color so I mean maybe it;'s because im tired of everyone making something out of nothing but i just feel like every human being is triggered in 2017.
I cheered when I saw this in my sub box. You're one of my favorite booktubers specifically because you're not afraid to be critical, but you always do your research before you join the conversation. I feel like a lot of reviewers were immediately after this book's release just like, "Ah! It's racist! It's bad! Burn it!" instead of engaging in a conversation.
wow, thank you so much!! this is so kind. i think it's important to keep in mind that criticism and "calling out" books should always be in the spirit of improving the publishing industry and not just to tear certain books/authors down!
I'm so late to this convo haha but as someone with a chronic illness/pain I really don't feel like this book sounds 'ableist' and actually I'm super happy that there is a YA book out there with a character that has chronic pain! Like yes, let's have more interesting characters with disabilities and chronic illnesses please! Loved the video :)
I'm so glad I found your review, I only had ever seen negative reviews of this book and that made me drop the book. I was very excited to read it when it came out because I liked Veronica Roth's writing, but those reviews made me leave the book, now I'm willing to pick the book and give it a shot! Thank you!
I'm surprised that you've read this book quite recently as I have and we have fresh minds and the EXACT SAME OPINIONS. I loved it sooo much even if it does have flaws. I really enjoyed watching this video fully because again, I have the same thoughts with yours! And also, I am really excited for the sequel to come out.
SAME! But you shouldn't limit your views just because of the author! I wasn't a fan of Divergent, BUT I LOVE CARVE THE MARK. The book is different from Divergent. I'm not sure if her writing improved or the plot was more interesting in pov, but this book is a killer xD.
its way better than divergent, I read this one first and then tried divergent and i was like wow okay you can tell this divergent one was earlier works.
This is an amazing review. Very well thought out and explained. I still haven't read Carve the Mark mostly because of the controversies but I definitely feel better about picking it up now.
To be honest, I've been waiting for someone to discuss this side of the 'racism' controversy in this book. As a woc very concerned with diversity in books/TV and Veronica Roth fan myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. VRoth has always been extremely conscious of representation in her books even since Divergent days and speaks extensively about her mistakes (like TW Peter sexually harassing Tris in Divergent, Tobias being white when she could've made him a poc, etc). It bothers me that so many people gave CtM no chance based on an article that imo wrongly/shallowly analyzed the dark-skinned aggressor trope. And then those same people will still read and promote other problematic authors who make lazy efforts/don't include diversity at all in their books. Obviously these (typically white) bloggers/reviewers don't even care about representation, they just don't want to be seen as controversial. I give VRoth so much credit for researching and attempting to make well-rounded diverse characters and constantly acknowledging problematic tropes she's used rather than tacking on ~diversity~ as an afterthought like most currently popular white YA authors do.
I haven't read it BUT I do think that there is this witch hunt mentality that I do not like. It was strange to see people go from loving it to suddenly saying the same exact thing. I think it's awesome that you decided to read it anyway. While I do think it's important to point out problematic elements, it is also problematic to tell people they can't read a book or that their wanting to know for themselves is racist.
this review was amazing! i love how articulate you consistently are in every review, but especially in this one. i only knew about the first controversy, which did push me slightly away from carve the mark (i was also going through a huge reading slump and the synopsis didn't immediately catch my attention). also, i'm chinese so i try to stay aware as a POC while also recognizing that the marginalization that i may experience is a degree of what others experience, which pushed me away from the book as well. however, i always was kind of skeptical about the controversy because i hadn't read the book yet and didn't see much evidence provided backing up the racism claims. i definitely agree with you that people had mob mentality and just bandwagoned because someone said something, which blew up this controversy. now that i'm out of my reading slump, i might pick this book up just to form my own opinions. i really appreciate how much research and thought you put into this video :)))
Really glad to see someone being positive about this book. I haven't read it yet because of all the claims of racism but now I'm eager to finally read it
honestly, I haven't read this and love divergent, but with all the controversy I was unsure of picking it up or not. After watching this I am definitely going to pick it and check it out for myself.
I love how you point out the fact that once the books were published every interpretations depends on the readers and the authors usually were stripped of their rights to explain their books (due to defense or biases). Lots of readers are forgetting that books/stories are ART, and will always be subjective (just like some modern pop music with crappy lyrics but has good tunes). Because of this, I'll be following your channel. ;)
I was searching for a book review and this video comes up and I think it's the most justified review of this book! Looking forward to more book reviews by you . 💖 Suscribed! 😁
Honeslty this was my #1 favorite book. I loved this book so much and the whole story. 5/5 and i truly mean this. I am excited for the second part to come out.
thebookbasement you don't have to actually participate with the others, you can just do it as a challenge. Anyway just a video idea for whenever you're bored and don't have anything to film hihi
I feel sad that a lot of people think this book was... slow? For me it was spot on, because I got to know a lot about the scenary and other characters, and I was very drawn to it. I gave it a 4 out of 5 stars in Goodreads because the only thing I didn't like about this book was the ending, and not because of the thing about Cyra not being a Noavek, but the fact that everyone was so tense and the intent of "romance" at the end after such a big tragedy was totally uncalled for. But oh well. Everything else was really good to me. BTW about the racism thing: I'm not used to reading reviews and blog posts about books I intend to read because that takes away the beauty of reading it, and it might affect the way I interpret the novel. But overall, I never even thought about racism. There was no indication to me that this book had any intention of portraying any character of color as "mean" or "brutal". I am not white, I'm from south america (Ecuador) and honestly, I really don't think this book was racist, at all. MY OPINION. :)
I hate how some people in here have knit picked books, I don't get it. I want stories that have an element of truth, racism is real, so some people even groups of people can be racist, so why try to white wash it. Cutting is an issue but it needs explored. Everyone is a sensitive reader on something, let's just all be grown ups. Great review. I see a few authors being targeted, some of them are excellent writers, and don't deserve bullied over a work of art.
so i know i’m way late to this party...not going to lie, i’m kind of glad i missed it 😂 i just finished this book literally an hour ago and immediately hopped on youtube so i could finally watch all the controversy videos. so! i know there’s controversy going into it. i know it’s mainly about racism. i get to page 400...now i’m wondering if i’m just dense and not seeing it? i finish the book and am totally confused because i didn’t pick up on any racist ideals or themes, and i honestly loved the book. so what am i missing?? then i realized...i don’t think i’m missing anything 🤷🏻♀️ i’m SO glad i found francina’s and your videos because they both totally explain my feelings on the controversy, perfectly. you have a new subscriber, for sure 💜 also, divergent is my heart and soul and i basically just accepted that i’m one of the only ones who loved it, so i was so happy to hear you love it too!
Bet these same people wouldn’t complain that the last airbender was racist for depicting the fire nations as Korean/Japanese (its not racist at all imo but people would if they’re making this comparison)
Longest non-spoiler section ever haha The reason I loved Divergent so much was also because of the characters! When I heard all of the controversy, I was so disappointed but also wanted to read the book for myself. I did see one review where someone mentioned that people had the details for the racism accusations a little mixed up which made me feel a little bit of relief and your discussion on this controversy has done the same. Fair enough if people are offended by the book but I don't think it's fair to label it as something without the correct facts. I'm definitely intrigued to read the novel though. Like you, I loved Divergent but wasn't sure if this was my kind of thing. Still preordered it because Veronica Roth (duh). However, I'm still putting it off cause I haven't quite forgiven her for We Can Be Mended lol Also, the research you do for your reviews and addressing the problems is always appreciated!
OKAY WE CAN BE MENDED--I DIDN'T EVEN READ THAT BUT I READ WHAT HAPPENED AND I NEVER WANT TO TOUCH THAT EVER IN MY LIFE. also if you end up reading carve the mark, i'd love to hear your thoughts!! it's hard to read a book by an author whose previous work you've loved so much.
I read this book when it first came out, oblivious to any of the controversy attached it. I thoroughly enjoyed it because of the characters. The pacing wasn't breakneck, but not all books need that. My interest in the characters kept my attention. I'm surprised to hear all the accusations and it makes me a little sad that readers might carry and apply their own baggage to color what they believe an author's intent is. It's sad for the author, but it also is sad that people carry their pain, looking for opportunities to validate their world view. I've been accused of racism by a customer once and it broke my heart that he viewed my actions as being motivated by a cause that frankly didn't exist. Thank you for articulating your thoughtful analysis and your care for the writer as well as readers.
I really enjoyed the book tbh probably because I didnt know it was coming out so I had no expectations for it and I totally agree what racial divide was there???
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.
For me i found very easy to remember the terminology, after the first few chapters 😂 idk if that's just me lol but i would give this book a 5 out of 5. I seemed to enjoy it alot more than the majority of others Ive seen read this. 😂 very easy to keep the flow going while I'm reading i feel like lol
I think JI has been deleting some of her blog posts because of some slack she got after some Twitter drama that happened within the ownvoices book community. The timeline kind of matches up - as it's around the same time she deleted her Twitter. Don't take my work for law though 🤘🏻
it's good to hear from someone that the book is not racist. I bought it without knowing much about it because I was a divergent fan too, and after I came across the racism and ableism allegations, I was so disappointed and unmotivated to read it. people seem to be so harsh on this book and to me it sounds like that are oversensitive. but oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. the only thing I find as a problem is the self harm situation (which I hear about for the first time) which may trigger someone. but again I don't think this book is as terrible as people make it seem.
Really great discussion and analysis. When I look over it, everything can be problematic to a degree, depending on the reader. Harry Potter has been claimed to be too white, many readers called Eleanor and Park racist due to exotification of Park, and John Green's books have been described as sexist by many who analyse them as Green projecting his fantasies into his works. I think to those people, it is problematic and that's their opinion however, to others it may not be. I'm not saying these claims may not be valid but that when people find something they believe to be problematic in a book, movie, or TV series that exists, they can still appreciate the work for what it is if they enjoyed it and it's not grounds to attack the work, (or the creator!) but an opportunity to explain to people why you think this is a problem to open a discussion.
definitely agree that if pushed hard enough, anything can be deemed problematic. loved hearing your thoughts, especially the part about criticism being an opportunity to open a discussion!! 💕
After all the time and thought you put into this review it is a shame that it only got 3 stars from you IMO...But I did watch the whole thing so I guess you did your job. Just a side question why are sooooo many YA stories told in 3 books. Just too many for me.
lmao i guess it is a shame. carve the mark is a duology, so just 2 books! but yeah, i feel like most YA series are trilogies. it's just like a standard, idk why.
WOW. I loved this review! I got so annoyed by those booktubers who apologized for not seeing the "problems" with this book because they were scared to be labeled "racist" and "privileged." As a POC, I didn't feel that this book was racist at all; yet, when people kept saying it was it made me second guess myself BUT then I told myself that if I like a book, then I like it. I agree with others in the comment section that people are SO sensitive these days, and it's hard to write anything without worrying about offending others. Sometimes it's hard to watch booktube reviews because I feel like they're all so worried about coming off a certain way, so your honestly is really refreshing.
I feel like the controversy is an example of sensitivity with racism. I see this trend of where any incident can becomes racist. For example, a African American lady being pulled up for have too much tint on her car window, and people will view that as racism even tho the police officer's explanation is justified. It may also be a case of readers and other authors being salty due to Veronica Roth's popularity. Often times those with more popularity are the ones who have nit picky viewers. And unfortunately, there will always be ppl bandwagoning on the most popular opinion. Btw I think Ryzek doesn't become softer because it's not their personalities that are mixing. Ryzek has a foundation of hate and tons of experiences backing it up. And once Eijeh is exposed to one of them, his evil side is encouraged to bring up. So Eijeh still is deep inside, but everyone has a bad side and Ryzek just brought it up. Its like how when once milk turns bad it cant go back or how it takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch. idk. xD
Michelle Geng in your first point, are you talking about the Florida state attorney, Aramis Ayala? If so, the police officers explanation was SHAKY at best, he listed many reasons for pulling her over. He said that this is the one time ever her tags came up like that, then continued with the tint "problem" and whatever else to save his ass. You can see in his voice getting higher that he didn't have a REAL reason, as did she because she asked for their names for the bs. Black Americans are more likely to be pulled over than anyone in the U.S, look up the phenomenon called "Driving while black", you may be right in your attempt to tackle the topic of society becoming more sensitive but your argument is ignorant. Think of your words when you talk about an important topic like police brutality, which have cost many people their lives.
Tameia Verdree Yes I am kinda referring to that incident, but I am not in anyway siding with the police officer from there. I saw in the comment section how people were overreacting, and there was one comment responding back to others saying yes although this is wrong of the policemen, at the same time there is a bandwagoning effect where people are only speaking out because that is what the rest of the people in the comment section are saying. And this is harmful because in other situations where the police officer is actual innocent, those same ppl may miss what actual happened and go straight to accusations. The example I gave was just inspired by the Florida State Attorney incident. I have seen videos similar to to my example, and ppl accuse the police officer of being ugh when we don't know the full story. And I just wanted to say in a society where fake/unreliable news is everywhere, it's easy to be tricked into accusing ppl. And that was my point. Yes the policemen who pulled the Florida State Attorney are bleh, but we have to be careful not to accuse anyone or anything. That's what happened to her this time. Without reading the book she believed in another author's claim that Carve The Mark is racist. And this all just a bandwagoning effect. It happens to everyone, even the most observant. And also before u call someone ignorant, u assumed that I was referring to that situation. What if I wasn't? Also, I too hate police brutality. So before throwing insults, remember that it's hard to communicate with comments. We aren't hearing everything that has to be said.
Michelle Geng No one insulted you, being ignorant is not insulting it just means that your stance is ill-informed, or that you're not educated which isn't something to take offense to. Again, your point is valid but your argument is flawed, in my opinion. It's interesting that you're more invested in the officers reputation rather than the outcome of justice being served. If you want to address a specific issue, then speak of a specific issue, don't speak of something specific to talk about an "inspiration" of a broader context. I don't see how you have a problem with people who "bandwagon" an injustice? If something has been done wrong, and more people know more about it then it's less likely to be swept under the rug and more likely to actually be fixed. In reference to police officers, more likely that it will be properly investigated and someone will be charged. "bandwagoning" police brutality cases is the reason why we've made progress such as more body cams for police instead of shaky civilian iPhone videos. Even then, there are RARLEY cases where cops actually are hurt by those accusations, their station always support them by giving them paid leave, the community supports them in reputation and donations, the media will demonize the deceased, and the justice system will almost always get them off anyway. Don't use something like police brutality as your argument for books, it IS ignorant and a disrespectful way to get your point across.
Tameia Verdree No I'm saying to look at all options. And u were the one to bring up the topic police brutality. And I dislike bandwagon because often times those ppl who do are fake. There is a reason y bandwagoning comes with a bad notation. How many of those ppl called or wrote a letter to their Senater or took action? And I mentioned bandwagoning because this is about how the community bandwagoned against the book...there is a difference between unifiying and bandwagon. I'm taking about that sometimes the overreaction from bandwagons feel similar to mob mentality. That's my problem. Carve the Mark is a great book that got hate for no reason due to the bandwagoning mentality. I do not know why you took this to such a lvl. I apologize if this was a sensitive subject. Maybe I poorly worded my example. It was just to show that we need to see things with a clear lenses and not take the story from one side but also listen to the other. And I took offense to the word ignorant cuz I do not believe I am. U may not view it as an insult but I did becuz I felt u were misunderstanding my point of view and wrote with a sharp tongue. I'm sorry if I misunderstood and maybe I truly am ignorant and do realize that I agree with u. I merely differ in my opinion to look at both sides. Yes it rarely happens where a police officer is wrongly accused, but it still does happen. And also those police officers do not merely get better with just a paid leave. It's a mental dmg to them. Imagine the internet ganging up against u for something u didn't mean or do. And u can't explain urself properly because the bandwagoning ppl won't open their minds to a new opinion.
that's an interesting explanation for the ryzek/elijah thing! but still, i feel like if ryzek is giving elijah bitter/angry memories, that should mean that ryzek is holding onto less of them for himself, diluting the bitterness/anger he himself feels, if that makes sense?
This girl makes the diversity a Thing ingr ained in the plotline Sa vage racism and the currentgift Chronic pain ....like shatter me A booktalk involves all aspects Attatched to the book,s topic range of Events blended with a pholilosophical Notion in het speech That Is very origineel and uncommon in booktalks in general Self Harm controversy she handles great
The people that were upset were black people and honestly idk why and when i asked some they dont really know either, they believe it's insensitive because they are dark skinned and so think this is racist in a way but they are aware that this isnt the case with the book really. I believe these people are full of themselves and initially someone was just on this authors hate train.
I have been aware of some people seeing Carve the Mark as racist but not of the controversy surrounding ableism or the self harm. Reading the book, I definitely did feel like people were taking it the wrong way. I think Veronica Roth really intended on Cyra being a black main character because she wanted her book to be diverse. Her not differentiating between black and white people and sort of blending them into the same nation or family is really because she wanted there to be no distinction between the two races. Race was not a topic of the story. Ryzek is inarguably a more cruel leader than Cyra ever could be and he was white. Cyra being black has nothing to do with trying to make black people seem like aggressors. Cyra actually is a very kindhearted, brave, and heroic figure in the book. She is not made out to be a villain. She is simply a person who is riddled with a terrible “gift” and has to overcome the challenges that she didnt make for herself. Cyra is an inspiring character, and i really dont think Veronica Roth ever intended to make her seem like anything else.
Thank you so so much for this review. I am so glad you were able to go to this book knowing of the controversies and then forming your thoughts around it, unlike others who did receive an ARC and when the controversies came up just erased their reviews. I agree with most of what you said regarding the racism, though the reason I believed it was classified as racist (besides everything you said) was the languages of each society, like how the Thuvhesit people had a more "beautiful" language that flowed and something like that and that the Shotet people had a harsher language (I believe I make a stronger point in my review www.goodreads.com/review/show/1629688769 if you wanna check it out haha). The thing of the currentgift I believe it was mainly the way Veronica phrased it on an interview of how they were gifts, and well... I never noticed the self-harm thing you just said, which is actually very true. I also think that the YA author who did that article maybe didn't read the whole book? Like most of what she says makes me believe she started it and just started saying all of that before finishing the book. The book itself I have it 4/5 stars. It was very slow but I loved the characters and how the story picked up the pace (for me it did have pace but I mean...). I just can't wait for CTM2
such a thoughtful review, celestino!! as for the language point, i feel like francina simone does a really great job of explaining my thoughts on it in her discussion video. she talks about how people drew those language comparisons on their own, immediately attributing them to romance languages vs african languages, when veronica's explanation shows that it's inspired by none of the above.
I think you talked a good talk but you never actually just full on said what the issue is. WE ARE LIVING IN A TIME WHERE PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY GETTING OFF ON VIRTUE SIGNALING, AND THEY DO IT BY PRETENDING RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA, SEXISM IS EVERYWHERE. Why would it even matter if the book had had an aggressive dark skinned race and a gentle light skinned race - it doesn't mean a damn thing. What now for the rest of eternity the villain in every book can only be a straight, white man because of past inequities. Ridiculous. Booktube is toxic - but not in the way all the straight, young women like to claim it is...it's toxic because all these women are fetishizing minority groups for clout. It's gross. As a gay man I see it all the time on booktube, all these straight women who now decided they are "queer" recommending books where everyone is non-binary, interracial, trans bla bla amd apologising to their viewers for recommending a book that might *gasp* have a straight or a white person in it. This is the real toxic nature of booktube now. Let's all act offended about everything and only push books with "other voices" because HEY virtue signalling is more important than recommending good literature.
spoiler ahead! omg omg omomg omgOMGOMGOMGOGM WHAT IF AKOS DOESNT DIE SERVING CYRA?!!!?!?!???! ugh you bring up a good point.... BUT WHAT IF... CYRA IS NOAVEK, SHE HAS HER DAD'S BLOOD. but ryzek's mom idk cheated or something so he isn't Noavek? lol sorry i commented this before you said ryzek may not be noavek lol
After reading Veronica Roth's response, I am more concerned by her justification for using a dark/light trope being that it was used in a book series that was written in the 1930s and 40s. Not exactly a period of social justice for people of color. However, if she feels comfortable with this dog whistle, then good for her. I am not sure that the concerns brought by Ireland are invalid, and saying that there are examples of varying shades within each group does not belie the main issue. Yes, no one person of color is all of that particular "race." There are light/dark issues within many different groups and it was further perpetuated by colonizers. No, we don't have to be overly sensitive to race concerns, but denying them is not going to make it better either. Read what and who you want to read, but realize that there may be some level of value to the concerns of others.
you only think that the "it makes me stronger" rhetoric is based on reality because you see disabled people through the lens of the media. the media cherry picks which disabled people it chooses to show based on which ones make them feel the most comfortable. It's also why you don't get how shockingly painful it is to have something that's destroyed your life called your "gift". because that's not some fantasy thing. people say that real world all the time and it's incredibly insensitive and dehumanising. it's like they believe they know me already based on what someone abled said about a different disabled person. It can be as true as it likes about that different disabled person but it sure ain't true for me. And they also do it because they want to feel good about themselves. it's as though my existence depresses them and they need my disability to be a gift so they can feel better about themselves. the best equivalent I can think of is telling women "you would be so much prettier if you smiled" all the time. because the media and all of their male friends convinced them that all women want to be pretty. and you look sad if you don't smile and they don't want to look at you being sad. they'd feel really good if they got you to smile. so they ask you to smile... all the god damn time. but if you approach a male friend being like "ugh that guy just told me to smile" he'll be like, "what's wrong with that? smiling is good. he was just trying to be nice." because he also doesn't know what it feels like to be told you need to smile literally everywhere you go. except for this comparison to work this would need to be a world in which you see yet another piece of media in which the only reason women are included is so the male author could tell them to smile, which is basically the only reason women are ever put in any kind of media, and you have to know in your heart it's going to get a little bit harder and dudes are going to get a little bit more defensive when you tell them it's not a compliment. microagressions yo, if you talk about them accurately describing the way they feel you sound like your overreacting and a bunch of people just stand around saying how much they don't get it.
thanks for the comment!! i really appreciated your insights into this ableism microaggression discussion. i didn't mean to offend you, but as i said in the video, intent doesn't matter if the recipient found offense anyway. the only question i really still have is, what about the women who do genuinely love smiling all the time? in other words, what about the disabled people who genuinely do believe their disability improved some part of their life? is that experience invalid because there are some people who experienced the exact opposite? ofc, there is always the argument that people who enjoy what's societally accepted don't truly enjoy those things, but rather are implicitly conditioned by society to enjoy those things to the point where they believe that enjoyment comes intrinsically rather than sociologically. but still, i remain curious.
THIS BOOK IS EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC! In the literary sense of the word. Read ten reviews and each will describe the world and its races slightly different, regardless of their stance on the controversy. Roth has been criticized for her lack of worldbuilding since the beginning of her career, and controversies such as this illustrate the importance of being thoughtful and providing readers with a solid foundation to imagine the world, particularly when you are using words like "savage" and "violent."
i definitely agree with you on the importance of providing readers with a solid foundation so that different readers don't code the characters differently. btw have you read the book?
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.
I don't know why people are overly sensitive! As a person of color, seriously, this book was not racist and people just chose to see what they want and disregard any other things this book presents in the story.
i feel this comment so much
Except that's not how it is in the book at all. Read it before you criticize.
Cami Castaneda I will not read it mainly because I don’t think Roth is a good writer, but I also did not criticize it. What I said was that the original poster can’t speak for everyone just because they are a person of color. The book might not have been racist to the original poster, but to other people it was. Just because you’re a person of color doesn’t mean your opinions represent all people of color.
I totally understand where you're coming from and agree that it is a personal thing. But my argument is that what they're are saying is racist in the book isn't there, to begin with. It's like if someone were upset that they talk about the holocaust in a book, but that book doesn't even mention the holocaust. The lady took down her blog post probably because it was pointed out she was wrong and had egg on her face.
Those people are rasict and what the book rasict
Honestly, I think people are becoming overly sensitive nowadays and will pick out and criticise things just to make them about racism/sexism/etc. It's a two sided coin because while I am happy that people are more vocal about their thoughts and when they see something wrong, I feel like some people can call things out just because they're overly critical and forever trying to put two things together.
Of course you'd say an idiotic thing like that. Dumbass.
burganza bollywood AHHH ITS LEVI 😄
lol I know that's not relevant at all to your relevant one, but I just had to XD
i can understand that. i, too, really appreciate that more people feel compelled to be outspoken about things that are harmful or wrong in the stories they consume, but i also see times where things are made out of nearly nothing. (clearly, this is how i feel about the racism allegation in carve the mark lol)
I think that because of the political climate more people are reduced to labeling things as being oppressive. It's the new trend. Nowadays everyone's a victim of everything and it's funny how people are trying to find hidden messages.
"The book's background is dark blue representing evil and the font is white representing good.' 😂
OMG I started watching this and I was like "Racism in Carve the Mark? What? I mean I read it twice!" so I just kept on watching and thank God someone thinks like me!😂 This review is amazing and really on spot so thank you
When I first heard the racism controversy I was like.... They live on the same planet???? They have the same skin tones right??
As a person of color, I agree with everything you said! Personally, didn't love the writing style but I understand it if people enjoyed it. Also, appreciated the comments on pacing and world building. 😊👏🏽❤️
thank you so much!! 💕 although i'm sorry the writing style wasn't for you!
Gifts don't have to be good. They can be perceived in two correct ways: A gift given from the current, like a present, or a natural ability or talent- in Cyra's case, not a talent. Gifts have good connotation. People confuse the definition of gift with the connotation of it- generally being good, something a family or friend gives you for a birthday. But that would not be correct in this book. Like you stated, for nearly half the book, Cyra suffers deeply as she is in pain from her gift (again, gifts do not have to be good).
Also, in no way did Veronica Roth ever state that she used the same.. disease?.. illness? as her friend, she said she
*based* Cyra's current gift off of it. She took the central IDEA of it and branched it out to make it completely different and to match her story. Those are two different things.
I also do not believe that there is any racism in Carve the Mark. For anyone who believes it so, read her blog post thoroughly. Veronica was explaining herself; explaining the book better. She was not trying to apologize, and she does not have to if she doesn't write a racist book.
Proof Carve the Mark is not racist:
Akos has Shotet ancestry. He is said many times to be pale. He is not brutal. This shows that Shotet are, by no means, NATURALLY brutal. They BECOME so overtime when raised in Shotet. The place Shotet and the Shotet people are different-- for example, being asian does not necessarily mean you live somewhere in Asia. It does not mean you take on their traditions. They are traditions, you are not born knowing traditions-- just like Shotet are not born brutal and that is important to know. If someone who was born in Thuvhe but was taken to Shotet as a little baby, chances are they would act brutally as well-- even though they are Thuvhesit.
Cyra states, even on the back of the book itself, that herself and Akos became what they were made to become. Cyra is not said to be brutal because she is dark skinned, she is said to be brutal because the people who raised her were-- and they were not dark skinned.
Also, not all Thuvhesit are pale. Some have darker skin. Same goes for the Shotet, not all are dark. Just because the main character is doesn't mean all are.
starlit gaming YES! I've been trying to explain this. In addition, Cyra was talking ahout her brother, whom she called cruel. She said he was not born that way, but made, and now he must be unmade
Wow this was so well-spoken!! Really loved hearing your thoughts!
I'm glad to hear that you didn't think it was racist because that's all I've been hearing about this book. I still have to read it, though, and form my own opinion. 📚✨
that's the best thing to do, imo--read it for yourself and make your own conclusions!
I haven't read Carve the Mark because all of the controversies surrounding it and after only hearing so much negative things but now after hearing your thoughts I might give it a go just to see what I think.
i'd love to hear your thoughts if you end up reading it!! i'm glad you're trying to make your own conclusions!
i just finished reading carve the mark for the second time and i was so confused when i heard that people think its racist like whatttt i love this book so much and i dont think its racist at all ._. and being someone who did cut and hurt myself for years i didnt even think while reading the book that it had issues bc of "self-harm" i saw the carving the mark as making a tattoo people are just creating drama for nothing
Preach👏🏾 i feel the exact same way. I love this book, one of the best I've read in awhile
Exactly...
This is so thoughtfully done and well executed! I still haven't read the book so obviously I can't speak to the controversy surrounding it but I commend you for putting a review out that contrasts the popular notions about this book. Also, it's wonderful how much textual evidence that you used to support your claims. It's obvious that a ton of work and thought went into this video and I really applaud you for that!!
thank you so much for your kind comment!! i was a little scared to put my thoughts out there, but seeing other people (like francina simone) definitely gave me more courage.
Justina Ireland is known for being aggressive on social media and have quite an aggressive fandom, so it doesn't surprise me it was her who started this whole thing.
Thank you so much for this review! I recently started following you and I started watching your videos from oldest to newest and I have to say you're a breath of fresh air. I love how you are always honest and say what you think regardless of other people's opinions that may be more popular in the community. I will always appreciate a reviewer who isn't afraid to be honest and speak their mind. Huge kudos! You're amazing!
I didn’t see a racial divide, it was a cultural divide, people need to read and actually know the difference between race, ethnicity, and culture
I love how all the controversies like this one are always superficial. I guess these people who blow things up like this don't understand metaphors and similes and what concepts in a story represent on a higher level. When did reading go from being an adventure in thoughts and ideas and exploring those concepts wholeheartedly to being a finger-pointing, self-righteous industry that only cares about not being racist/ableist/sexist/misogynist/etc. so that everyone feels safe and emotionally validated?
Lazy Knight YESSS👏👏Everything you just said is perfection.
Literary culture was traditionally hypercritical. All critiques are not justified, but I find this new mainstream culture that frames literary criticism as toxic or negative to be rather juvenile. There was a time when writers expected others to debate about the message and social implications behind their work. Now, love triangles and teenage angst is apparently all that we are supposed to give a fuck about.
hmm... interesting thoughts, and i really appreciate you sharing them! i think reading can be both an adventure in thoughts/ideas while also being subject to criticism and rigorous examination through the lenses of racism/ableism/sexism/misogyny. although i don't think literature's main purpose is to make sure everyone feels safe and emotionally validated, i do think that's a noble goal nonetheless!
thebookbasement I mean, understand and accept that criticism I just feel like it happens a little too much. like it's an oppression checklist or something lol. I dunno, maybe I'm just jaded haha
Blame the rise of SJW's on BookTwitter.
I loved this book a ton even though my opinion is TOTALLY bias it was one of my favourites. Divergent has a special spot in my heart because it was the first series that really got me into reading and I was utterly obsessed with it. When Carve The Mark came out I was super hesitant to buy it because of the price (lol) and I built up an idea in my head that I wont love it as much as divergent. When I finally bought it I read it and instantly my comparison with Divergent had oblitherated. Like you said the character relationships and ground personalities were still similar which was probably why I loved it. But overall I loved reading it.
your eyeshadow look!!!! stunning!!!
thanks so much!! i tried to incorporate the colors of the cover!
I didn't understand the whole memory swap either, but I loved the book! (I think I am the only one.)
Controversy that starts way before a release day sometimes scares me. People ended up not reading and not having it's own opinion. Or worst hating on people that actually read and had a different view/liked it. Carve the Mark has so much controversy yet I still think that I might read it one day :) Like I read Red Queen this past month, most people hated it and for me it wasn't as bad as I expected
wow, i didn't even know red queen had controversy around it lmao. but yeah, when controversy starts BEFORE a book is published, i think it's best to be skeptical.
I loved Red Queen but wasn't a fan of the ending.
As a chronic pain sufferer I do believe that all of my conditions have made me super strong. I have to read and review this book.
I always LOVE your reviews and your book talks. Also GIRL THAT MUSTARD COLORED SHIRT LOOKS BOMB ON YOU!!! I mean the over all look is giving me life
Back to video: "did these people finish reading the book?" 😂 no...if they did, they shouldn't admit it.
"The current is a stream of power" 🤔 😂 I just realized how unoriginal that term is 😂😂 and yet how smart it is.
The "I am stronger" is honestly a rhetoric that people through traumatic events can and often do feel. As you said, people's feelings are valid. Still I think if we say that perspective is valid, then so is someone's (like me) view that is relatable.
I agree with the Self Harm portion...though I thought the characters sometimes got close to the line (as traumatized teens would in this situation) but it wasn't romanticized.
Totally agree about the book itself. 😂"it doesn't quite hit the mark" every time I hear that about this book I laugh because I'm a sucker for puns.
The memory swap....yeah I didn't get it. Also I don't get how you can memory swap with people and not be a confused person lol like a perch work.
Anyway. LOVED THIS❤️
THANKS, GIRL. honestly your video gave me courage to put my own two cents into the discussion, too. and yes, if we say that one group of people's feelings are valid, then that validity must extend to the people who feel the opposite.
Loved this review! Your videos and how you articulate yourself have become better and better through the years!
thank you so much!! 💕 so sweet 😭
I love that you and Francina have made videos "debunking" this controversy! I mean I haven't read the book and don't know if I will but I really don't like it how book twitter handles things nowadays. I recently read Nevernight and I'd read someone (who hadn't even read the book) blaming it on similar things as with this controversy. and then I read the book and found all accusations completely wrong? I just don't know what tweets to trust anymore tbh. like just recently there was talk of Sanderson's alleged homophobia (from years ago) and everyone was immediately like "I guess I won't read his books then" and no one paid attention to the people replying with links were he had admitted he was wrong and apologized?? like aren't people even allowed to change anymore smh. either way, great video!
wow, i had never even heard about the sanderson allegations. that's so interesting!! book twitter can be really helpful and really intelligent, but at other times, it can be a bit of a chaotic, hateful storm...
To be honest I haven't heard any of this controversy over this book because I really didn't have any need or want to read it so I didn't look into it at all. It's very interesting to hear about it though and your thoughts on it as well. I definitely feel like I want to read this a bit more now, and I appreciate your review!
wow, this video must've been so strange to watch without hearing about the controversy!! thanks for watching 💕
Right!? I was like HOW HAVE I NOT HEARD ABOUT THIS!?
I'm annoyed by the book tubers who are retracting their statements of this book being good. I think if you advertise yourself as an honest reviewers and book publishers send you books then you are to a degree their your employer. You've reneged on what yourself promote on your channel. So how truthful are your other reviews? Thank you for not being scared to go against the norm.
it is a bit frustrating that that happened, but also understandable. especially in this time when people are very vocal about problems such as racism, no one wants to be labeled a "racist" for liking a book such as this one. they're scared of the backlash, and with good reason, considering book twitter/goodreads can be really, really vicious.
I get the pressures of wanting to be popular and maintain a controversial free channel especially when they come at flocks to attack people. However it makes me doubt their claim as an honest book reviewer when a statement is retracted or changed. Then again to be fair there is a lot of pressure to put out videos that everyone will like and agree with. In a way it isn't their fault that this book is controversial now to review.
I MISSSED YOU. omg yes veronica roth is definitely tHAT author SAME TSHIRTS EVERYTHING DIVERGENT IS GREATNESS I CANNOT. same divergent is mah baby. YES I WAS SO EXCITED. in my review i didn't talk about ti because the book was fricken wONDERFUL and the controversies in it were really not even things to me and people really overreact. I wanted - in my review - to talk about the GREATNESS of the book rather than focus on what everyone else does. I don't see anything racist about it and I am a person of color so I mean maybe it;'s because im tired of everyone making something out of nothing but i just feel like every human being is triggered in 2017.
lmao divergent is our child. i'm glad you loved carve the mark!! and i appreciate the optimism of focusing on the great things about a work.
I cheered when I saw this in my sub box. You're one of my favorite booktubers specifically because you're not afraid to be critical, but you always do your research before you join the conversation. I feel like a lot of reviewers were immediately after this book's release just like, "Ah! It's racist! It's bad! Burn it!" instead of engaging in a conversation.
wow, thank you so much!! this is so kind. i think it's important to keep in mind that criticism and "calling out" books should always be in the spirit of improving the publishing industry and not just to tear certain books/authors down!
I'm so late to this convo haha but as someone with a chronic illness/pain I really don't feel like this book sounds 'ableist' and actually I'm super happy that there is a YA book out there with a character that has chronic pain! Like yes, let's have more interesting characters with disabilities and chronic illnesses please! Loved the video :)
I'm so glad I found your review, I only had ever seen negative reviews of this book and that made me drop the book. I was very excited to read it when it came out because I liked Veronica Roth's writing, but those reviews made me leave the book, now I'm willing to pick the book and give it a shot! Thank you!
I'm surprised that you've read this book quite recently as I have and we have fresh minds and the EXACT SAME OPINIONS. I loved it sooo much even if it does have flaws. I really enjoyed watching this video fully because again, I have the same thoughts with yours! And also, I am really excited for the sequel to come out.
i'm excited for the sequel, too! i'm glad it's a duology, because i'd love to see how roth handles the conclusion of this storyline.
I probably still won't read it because we are on opposite sides of our feelings on Divergent lololol, but I loved hearing your thoughts about this!
SAME! But you shouldn't limit your views just because of the author! I wasn't a fan of Divergent, BUT I LOVE CARVE THE MARK. The book is different from Divergent. I'm not sure if her writing improved or the plot was more interesting in pov, but this book is a killer xD.
lmaoooo. thanks, monica!!! 💕
its way better than divergent, I read this one first and then tried divergent and i was like wow okay you can tell this divergent one was earlier works.
Thank you so much for this!
of course! thank YOU so much for watching, saajid!
This is an amazing review. Very well thought out and explained. I still haven't read Carve the Mark mostly because of the controversies but I definitely feel better about picking it up now.
thanks so much!! if you end up reading it, definitely let me know your thoughts!
To be honest, I've been waiting for someone to discuss this side of the 'racism' controversy in this book. As a woc very concerned with diversity in books/TV and Veronica Roth fan myself, you took the words right out of my mouth. VRoth has always been extremely conscious of representation in her books even since Divergent days and speaks extensively about her mistakes (like TW Peter sexually harassing Tris in Divergent, Tobias being white when she could've made him a poc, etc). It bothers me that so many people gave CtM no chance based on an article that imo wrongly/shallowly analyzed the dark-skinned aggressor trope. And then those same people will still read and promote other problematic authors who make lazy efforts/don't include diversity at all in their books. Obviously these (typically white) bloggers/reviewers don't even care about representation, they just don't want to be seen as controversial. I give VRoth so much credit for researching and attempting to make well-rounded diverse characters and constantly acknowledging problematic tropes she's used rather than tacking on ~diversity~ as an afterthought like most currently popular white YA authors do.
I haven't read it BUT I do think that there is this witch hunt mentality that I do not like. It was strange to see people go from loving it to suddenly saying the same exact thing. I think it's awesome that you decided to read it anyway. While I do think it's important to point out problematic elements, it is also problematic to tell people they can't read a book or that their wanting to know for themselves is racist.
this review was amazing! i love how articulate you consistently are in every review, but especially in this one.
i only knew about the first controversy, which did push me slightly away from carve the mark (i was also going through a huge reading slump and the synopsis didn't immediately catch my attention). also, i'm chinese so i try to stay aware as a POC while also recognizing that the marginalization that i may experience is a degree of what others experience, which pushed me away from the book as well. however, i always was kind of skeptical about the controversy because i hadn't read the book yet and didn't see much evidence provided backing up the racism claims.
i definitely agree with you that people had mob mentality and just bandwagoned because someone said something, which blew up this controversy. now that i'm out of my reading slump, i might pick this book up just to form my own opinions.
i really appreciate how much research and thought you put into this video :)))
thanks for such a thoughtful comment!! i really appreciate it 💕 also, i'm glad you're out of your reading slump :-)
Really glad to see someone being positive about this book. I haven't read it yet because of all the claims of racism but now I'm eager to finally read it
definitely let me know your thoughts after you've read it!
Gurl Thanks! I've haven't read carve the mark coz of all the controversy but now I am gonna give it a shot!
yay, i'm glad!! i think it's best to read it for oneself and then make conclusions.
honestly, I haven't read this and love divergent, but with all the controversy I was unsure of picking it up or not. After watching this I am definitely going to pick it and check it out for myself.
i love that you want to check it out for yourself!! that's the best response imo
I love how you point out the fact that once the books were published every interpretations depends on the readers and the authors usually were stripped of their rights to explain their books (due to defense or biases). Lots of readers are forgetting that books/stories are ART, and will always be subjective (just like some modern pop music with crappy lyrics but has good tunes). Because of this, I'll be following your channel. ;)
I was searching for a book review and this video comes up and I think it's the most justified review of this book! Looking forward to more book reviews by you . 💖 Suscribed! 😁
i’m late to this convo, and this video was so well put together; thank you! new subscriber for sure 💛💛💛
Wow you and Francina are the most articulate and thoughtful booktubers i have found so far. I am still discovering Jems.
Honeslty this was my #1 favorite book. I loved this book so much and the whole story. 5/5 and i truly mean this. I am excited for the second part to come out.
Do you have plans of doing the 24 hour readathon? Pleeeease
ah, sorry! i'm bad at participating in readathons lol
thebookbasement you don't have to actually participate with the others, you can just do it as a challenge. Anyway just a video idea for whenever you're bored and don't have anything to film hihi
This is such an amazing video. Thank you.
thank you so much!! 💕
I feel sad that a lot of people think this book was... slow? For me it was spot on, because I got to know a lot about the scenary and other characters, and I was very drawn to it. I gave it a 4 out of 5 stars in Goodreads because the only thing I didn't like about this book was the ending, and not because of the thing about Cyra not being a Noavek, but the fact that everyone was so tense and the intent of "romance" at the end after such a big tragedy was totally uncalled for. But oh well. Everything else was really good to me. BTW about the racism thing: I'm not used to reading reviews and blog posts about books I intend to read because that takes away the beauty of reading it, and it might affect the way I interpret the novel. But overall, I never even thought about racism. There was no indication to me that this book had any intention of portraying any character of color as "mean" or "brutal". I am not white, I'm from south america (Ecuador) and honestly, I really don't think this book was racist, at all. MY OPINION. :)
I hate how some people in here have knit picked books, I don't get it. I want stories that have an element of truth, racism is real, so some people even groups of people can be racist, so why try to white wash it. Cutting is an issue but it needs explored. Everyone is a sensitive reader on something, let's just all be grown ups. Great review. I see a few authors being targeted, some of them are excellent writers, and don't deserve bullied over a work of art.
hey you should read the 'All For the Game' trilogy by Nora Sakavic ITS SERIOUSLY ONE OF MY FAV SERIES EVER !
i'll have to check it out!
so i know i’m way late to this party...not going to lie, i’m kind of glad i missed it 😂
i just finished this book literally an hour ago and immediately hopped on youtube so i could finally watch all the controversy videos.
so! i know there’s controversy going into it. i know it’s mainly about racism. i get to page 400...now i’m wondering if i’m just dense and not seeing it? i finish the book and am totally confused because i didn’t pick up on any racist ideals or themes, and i honestly loved the book. so what am i missing?? then i realized...i don’t think i’m missing anything 🤷🏻♀️
i’m SO glad i found francina’s and your videos because they both totally explain my feelings on the controversy, perfectly.
you have a new subscriber, for sure 💜 also, divergent is my heart and soul and i basically just accepted that i’m one of the only ones who loved it, so i was so happy to hear you love it too!
Bet these same people wouldn’t complain that the last airbender was racist for depicting the fire nations as Korean/Japanese (its not racist at all imo but people would if they’re making this comparison)
Longest non-spoiler section ever haha
The reason I loved Divergent so much was also because of the characters! When I heard all of the controversy, I was so disappointed but also wanted to read the book for myself. I did see one review where someone mentioned that people had the details for the racism accusations a little mixed up which made me feel a little bit of relief and your discussion on this controversy has done the same. Fair enough if people are offended by the book but I don't think it's fair to label it as something without the correct facts.
I'm definitely intrigued to read the novel though. Like you, I loved Divergent but wasn't sure if this was my kind of thing. Still preordered it because Veronica Roth (duh). However, I'm still putting it off cause I haven't quite forgiven her for We Can Be Mended lol
Also, the research you do for your reviews and addressing the problems is always appreciated!
OKAY WE CAN BE MENDED--I DIDN'T EVEN READ THAT BUT I READ WHAT HAPPENED AND I NEVER WANT TO TOUCH THAT EVER IN MY LIFE.
also if you end up reading carve the mark, i'd love to hear your thoughts!! it's hard to read a book by an author whose previous work you've loved so much.
I read this book when it first came out, oblivious to any of the controversy attached it. I thoroughly enjoyed it because of the characters. The pacing wasn't breakneck, but not all books need that. My interest in the characters kept my attention.
I'm surprised to hear all the accusations and it makes me a little sad that readers might carry and apply their own baggage to color what they believe an author's intent is. It's sad for the author, but it also is sad that people carry their pain, looking for opportunities to validate their world view. I've been accused of racism by a customer once and it broke my heart that he viewed my actions as being motivated by a cause that frankly didn't exist.
Thank you for articulating your thoughtful analysis and your care for the writer as well as readers.
i'm glad you enjoyed the book!! the characters were imo the best part of the story.
I really enjoyed the book tbh probably because I didnt know it was coming out so I had no expectations for it and I totally agree what racial divide was there???
Where did you get your Divergent merchandise??
People are insane
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.
lmao idk why but this comment is so funny to me
What r you guys' s favorite book in divergent series....... just curios..... mine Is insurgent!
I love divergent also 😁
For me i found very easy to remember the terminology, after the first few chapters 😂 idk if that's just me lol but i would give this book a 5 out of 5. I seemed to enjoy it alot more than the majority of others Ive seen read this. 😂 very easy to keep the flow going while I'm reading i feel like lol
I think JI has been deleting some of her blog posts because of some slack she got after some Twitter drama that happened within the ownvoices book community. The timeline kind of matches up - as it's around the same time she deleted her Twitter. Don't take my work for law though 🤘🏻
wow, i hadn't even heard about this ownvoices drama. yikes, drama is just everywhere
I just started reading it and the names and some words are so confusing and hard to pronounce
I love the divergent series I have the books and carve the mark but I haven't read carve the mark
it's good to hear from someone that the book is not racist. I bought it without knowing much about it because I was a divergent fan too, and after I came across the racism and ableism allegations, I was so disappointed and unmotivated to read it. people seem to be so harsh on this book and to me it sounds like that are oversensitive. but oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. the only thing I find as a problem is the self harm situation (which I hear about for the first time) which may trigger someone. but again I don't think this book is as terrible as people make it seem.
Any good subplots in this book? Family problems, a romance?
I'm still trying to figure out the theme and conflict of this book someone please help me!!!!!!!
Really great discussion and analysis. When I look over it, everything can be problematic to a degree, depending on the reader. Harry Potter has been claimed to be too white, many readers called Eleanor and Park racist due to exotification of Park, and John Green's books have been described as sexist by many who analyse them as Green projecting his fantasies into his works. I think to those people, it is problematic and that's their opinion however, to others it may not be. I'm not saying these claims may not be valid but that when people find something they believe to be problematic in a book, movie, or TV series that exists, they can still appreciate the work for what it is if they enjoyed it and it's not grounds to attack the work, (or the creator!) but an opportunity to explain to people why you think this is a problem to open a discussion.
definitely agree that if pushed hard enough, anything can be deemed problematic. loved hearing your thoughts, especially the part about criticism being an opportunity to open a discussion!! 💕
No entiendo 😢
lo siento 😔
There's no racism in this book. I agree. This review is good, I like your opinion about art, but I don't like the fact that it has spoilers.
After all the time and thought you put into this review it is a shame that it only got 3 stars from you IMO...But I did watch the whole thing so I guess you did your job. Just a side question why are sooooo many YA stories told in 3 books. Just too many for me.
lmao i guess it is a shame. carve the mark is a duology, so just 2 books! but yeah, i feel like most YA series are trilogies. it's just like a standard, idk why.
PLEASE READ THE FATES DIVIDE I REALLY WANT TO KNOW YOUR OPINION ON IT !!!!!
Does anyone know the AR answers?
Ok....I LOVED THIS BOOK NO MATTER WHAT PPL SAY!
This is a very confusing book but i really want to read it but i dont understand any of it
I really love your vids lol just the way u talk makes me not wanna click off lol i tried because I didnt want to be spoiled but I couldnt😂
literally i remember reading carve the mark and i don’t remember them mentioning race in it. like maybe one time but i could be imagining it
WOW. I loved this review! I got so annoyed by those booktubers who apologized for not seeing the "problems" with this book because they were scared to be labeled "racist" and "privileged." As a POC, I didn't feel that this book was racist at all; yet, when people kept saying it was it made me second guess myself BUT then I told myself that if I like a book, then I like it.
I agree with others in the comment section that people are SO sensitive these days, and it's hard to write anything without worrying about offending others. Sometimes it's hard to watch booktube reviews because I feel like they're all so worried about coming off a certain way, so your honestly is really refreshing.
I feel like the controversy is an example of sensitivity with racism. I see this trend of where any incident can becomes racist. For example, a African American lady being pulled up for have too much tint on her car window, and people will view that as racism even tho the police officer's explanation is justified. It may also be a case of readers and other authors being salty due to Veronica Roth's popularity. Often times those with more popularity are the ones who have nit picky viewers. And unfortunately, there will always be ppl bandwagoning on the most popular opinion.
Btw I think Ryzek doesn't become softer because it's not their personalities that are mixing. Ryzek has a foundation of hate and tons of experiences backing it up. And once Eijeh is exposed to one of them, his evil side is encouraged to bring up. So Eijeh still is deep inside, but everyone has a bad side and Ryzek just brought it up. Its like how when once milk turns bad it cant go back or how it takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch. idk. xD
Michelle Geng in your first point, are you talking about the Florida state attorney, Aramis Ayala? If so, the police officers explanation was SHAKY at best, he listed many reasons for pulling her over. He said that this is the one time ever her tags came up like that, then continued with the tint "problem" and whatever else to save his ass. You can see in his voice getting higher that he didn't have a REAL reason, as did she because she asked for their names for the bs. Black Americans are more likely to be pulled over than anyone in the U.S, look up the phenomenon called "Driving while black", you may be right in your attempt to tackle the topic of society becoming more sensitive but your argument is ignorant. Think of your words when you talk about an important topic like police brutality, which have cost many people their lives.
Tameia Verdree
Yes I am kinda referring to that incident, but I am not in anyway siding with the police officer from there. I saw in the comment section how people were overreacting, and there was one comment responding back to others saying yes although this is wrong of the policemen, at the same time there is a bandwagoning effect where people are only speaking out because that is what the rest of the people in the comment section are saying. And this is harmful because in other situations where the police officer is actual innocent, those same ppl may miss what actual happened and go straight to accusations. The example I gave was just inspired by the Florida State Attorney incident. I have seen videos similar to to my example, and ppl accuse the police officer of being ugh when we don't know the full story. And I just wanted to say in a society where fake/unreliable news is everywhere, it's easy to be tricked into accusing ppl. And that was my point. Yes the policemen who pulled the Florida State Attorney are bleh, but we have to be careful not to accuse anyone or anything. That's what happened to her this time. Without reading the book she believed in another author's claim that Carve The Mark is racist. And this all just a bandwagoning effect. It happens to everyone, even the most observant. And also before u call someone ignorant, u assumed that I was referring to that situation. What if I wasn't? Also, I too hate police brutality. So before throwing insults, remember that it's hard to communicate with comments. We aren't hearing everything that has to be said.
Michelle Geng No one insulted you, being ignorant is not insulting it just means that your stance is ill-informed, or that you're not educated which isn't something to take offense to. Again, your point is valid but your argument is flawed, in my opinion. It's interesting that you're more invested in the officers reputation rather than the outcome of justice being served. If you want to address a specific issue, then speak of a specific issue, don't speak of something specific to talk about an "inspiration" of a broader context. I don't see how you have a problem with people who "bandwagon" an injustice? If something has been done wrong, and more people know more about it then it's less likely to be swept under the rug and more likely to actually be fixed. In reference to police officers, more likely that it will be properly investigated and someone will be charged. "bandwagoning" police brutality cases is the reason why we've made progress such as more body cams for police instead of shaky civilian iPhone videos. Even then, there are RARLEY cases where cops actually are hurt by those accusations, their station always support them by giving them paid leave, the community supports them in reputation and donations, the media will demonize the deceased, and the justice system will almost always get them off anyway. Don't use something like police brutality as your argument for books, it IS ignorant and a disrespectful way to get your point across.
Tameia Verdree
No I'm saying to look at all options. And u were the one to bring up the topic police brutality. And I dislike bandwagon because often times those ppl who do are fake. There is a reason y bandwagoning comes with a bad notation. How many of those ppl called or wrote a letter to their Senater or took action? And I mentioned bandwagoning because this is about how the community bandwagoned against the book...there is a difference between unifiying and bandwagon. I'm taking about that sometimes the overreaction from bandwagons feel similar to mob mentality. That's my problem. Carve the Mark is a great book that got hate for no reason due to the bandwagoning mentality. I do not know why you took this to such a lvl. I apologize if this was a sensitive subject. Maybe I poorly worded my example. It was just to show that we need to see things with a clear lenses and not take the story from one side but also listen to the other. And I took offense to the word ignorant cuz I do not believe I am. U may not view it as an insult but I did becuz I felt u were misunderstanding my point of view and wrote with a sharp tongue. I'm sorry if I misunderstood and maybe I truly am ignorant and do realize that I agree with u. I merely differ in my opinion to look at both sides. Yes it rarely happens where a police officer is wrongly accused, but it still does happen. And also those police officers do not merely get better with just a paid leave. It's a mental dmg to them. Imagine the internet ganging up against u for something u didn't mean or do. And u can't explain urself properly because the bandwagoning ppl won't open their minds to a new opinion.
that's an interesting explanation for the ryzek/elijah thing! but still, i feel like if ryzek is giving elijah bitter/angry memories, that should mean that ryzek is holding onto less of them for himself, diluting the bitterness/anger he himself feels, if that makes sense?
It took me literally an HOUR to figure out how to pronounce Akos😂
This girl makes the diversity a
Thing ingr ained in the plotline
Sa vage racism and the currentgift
Chronic pain ....like shatter me
A booktalk involves all aspects
Attatched to the book,s topic range of
Events blended with a pholilosophical
Notion in het speech
That Is very origineel and uncommon in booktalks in general
Self Harm controversy she handles great
The people that were upset were black people and honestly idk why and when i asked some they dont really know either, they believe it's insensitive because they are dark skinned and so think this is racist in a way but they are aware that this isnt the case with the book really. I believe these people are full of themselves and initially someone was just on this authors hate train.
I have been aware of some people seeing Carve the Mark as racist but not of the controversy surrounding ableism or the self harm. Reading the book, I definitely did feel like people were taking it the wrong way. I think Veronica Roth really intended on Cyra being a black main character because she wanted her book to be diverse. Her not differentiating between black and white people and sort of blending them into the same nation or family is really because she wanted there to be no distinction between the two races. Race was not a topic of the story. Ryzek is inarguably a more cruel leader than Cyra ever could be and he was white. Cyra being black has nothing to do with trying to make black people seem like aggressors. Cyra actually is a very kindhearted, brave, and heroic figure in the book. She is not made out to be a villain. She is simply a person who is riddled with a terrible “gift” and has to overcome the challenges that she didnt make for herself. Cyra is an inspiring character, and i really dont think Veronica Roth ever intended to make her seem like anything else.
Videoların güzell
Is it almost as bad to suggest there is a controversy if they are ignoring a contradiction to their colour-coding?
Thank you so so much for this review. I am so glad you were able to go to this book knowing of the controversies and then forming your thoughts around it, unlike others who did receive an ARC and when the controversies came up just erased their reviews. I agree with most of what you said regarding the racism, though the reason I believed it was classified as racist (besides everything you said) was the languages of each society, like how the Thuvhesit people had a more "beautiful" language that flowed and something like that and that the Shotet people had a harsher language (I believe I make a stronger point in my review www.goodreads.com/review/show/1629688769 if you wanna check it out haha). The thing of the currentgift I believe it was mainly the way Veronica phrased it on an interview of how they were gifts, and well... I never noticed the self-harm thing you just said, which is actually very true. I also think that the YA author who did that article maybe didn't read the whole book? Like most of what she says makes me believe she started it and just started saying all of that before finishing the book. The book itself I have it 4/5 stars. It was very slow but I loved the characters and how the story picked up the pace (for me it did have pace but I mean...). I just can't wait for CTM2
such a thoughtful review, celestino!! as for the language point, i feel like francina simone does a really great job of explaining my thoughts on it in her discussion video. she talks about how people drew those language comparisons on their own, immediately attributing them to romance languages vs african languages, when veronica's explanation shows that it's inspired by none of the above.
I think you talked a good talk but you never actually just full on said what the issue is. WE ARE LIVING IN A TIME WHERE PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY GETTING OFF ON VIRTUE SIGNALING, AND THEY DO IT BY PRETENDING RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA, SEXISM IS EVERYWHERE. Why would it even matter if the book had had an aggressive dark skinned race and a gentle light skinned race - it doesn't mean a damn thing. What now for the rest of eternity the villain in every book can only be a straight, white man because of past inequities. Ridiculous. Booktube is toxic - but not in the way all the straight, young women like to claim it is...it's toxic because all these women are fetishizing minority groups for clout. It's gross. As a gay man I see it all the time on booktube, all these straight women who now decided they are "queer" recommending books where everyone is non-binary, interracial, trans bla bla amd apologising to their viewers for recommending a book that might *gasp* have a straight or a white person in it. This is the real toxic nature of booktube now. Let's all act offended about everything and only push books with "other voices" because HEY virtue signalling is more important than recommending good literature.
spoiler ahead!
omg omg omomg omgOMGOMGOMGOGM WHAT IF AKOS DOESNT DIE SERVING CYRA?!!!?!?!???! ugh you bring up a good point.... BUT WHAT IF... CYRA IS NOAVEK, SHE HAS HER DAD'S BLOOD. but ryzek's mom idk cheated or something so he isn't Noavek?
lol sorry i commented this before you said ryzek may not be noavek lol
I never clicked so fast in my life 😍😍😍😍😍😍❤❤❤❤
thank you!! 😍
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0:38 yes the movies are terrible
Am I the only one who liked the book
So the on-line race-baiters manufactured an outrage to gripe about?!! Would never have believed it.
After reading Veronica Roth's response, I am more concerned by her justification for using a dark/light trope being that it was used in a book series that was written in the 1930s and 40s. Not exactly a period of social justice for people of color. However, if she feels comfortable with this dog whistle, then good for her. I am not sure that the concerns brought by Ireland are invalid, and saying that there are examples of varying shades within each group does not belie the main issue. Yes, no one person of color is all of that particular "race." There are light/dark issues within many different groups and it was further perpetuated by colonizers. No, we don't have to be overly sensitive to race concerns, but denying them is not going to make it better either. Read what and who you want to read, but realize that there may be some level of value to the concerns of others.
you only think that the "it makes me stronger" rhetoric is based on reality because you see disabled people through the lens of the media. the media cherry picks which disabled people it chooses to show based on which ones make them feel the most comfortable.
It's also why you don't get how shockingly painful it is to have something that's destroyed your life called your "gift". because that's not some fantasy thing. people say that real world all the time and it's incredibly insensitive and dehumanising. it's like they believe they know me already based on what someone abled said about a different disabled person. It can be as true as it likes about that different disabled person but it sure ain't true for me. And they also do it because they want to feel good about themselves. it's as though my existence depresses them and they need my disability to be a gift so they can feel better about themselves.
the best equivalent I can think of is telling women "you would be so much prettier if you smiled" all the time. because the media and all of their male friends convinced them that all women want to be pretty. and you look sad if you don't smile and they don't want to look at you being sad. they'd feel really good if they got you to smile. so they ask you to smile... all the god damn time.
but if you approach a male friend being like "ugh that guy just told me to smile" he'll be like, "what's wrong with that? smiling is good. he was just trying to be nice." because he also doesn't know what it feels like to be told you need to smile literally everywhere you go.
except for this comparison to work this would need to be a world in which you see yet another piece of media in which the only reason women are included is so the male author could tell them to smile, which is basically the only reason women are ever put in any kind of media, and you have to know in your heart it's going to get a little bit harder and dudes are going to get a little bit more defensive when you tell them it's not a compliment.
microagressions yo, if you talk about them accurately describing the way they feel you sound like your overreacting and a bunch of people just stand around saying how much they don't get it.
thanks for the comment!! i really appreciated your insights into this ableism microaggression discussion. i didn't mean to offend you, but as i said in the video, intent doesn't matter if the recipient found offense anyway. the only question i really still have is, what about the women who do genuinely love smiling all the time? in other words, what about the disabled people who genuinely do believe their disability improved some part of their life? is that experience invalid because there are some people who experienced the exact opposite? ofc, there is always the argument that people who enjoy what's societally accepted don't truly enjoy those things, but rather are implicitly conditioned by society to enjoy those things to the point where they believe that enjoyment comes intrinsically rather than sociologically. but still, i remain curious.
THIS BOOK IS EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC! In the literary sense of the word. Read ten reviews and each will describe the world and its races slightly different, regardless of their stance on the controversy. Roth has been criticized for her lack of worldbuilding since the beginning of her career, and controversies such as this illustrate the importance of being thoughtful and providing readers with a solid foundation to imagine the world, particularly when you are using words like "savage" and "violent."
i definitely agree with you on the importance of providing readers with a solid foundation so that different readers don't code the characters differently. btw have you read the book?
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.
I think you guys all need to calm down and relax. I don't understand why the American book community is so overreacting and dramatizing this whole "issue" (which isn't one in my opinion). This book is fucking loved in Germany and I truly believe that there is nothing problematic about this book. I just like the diversity and inclusion in general.