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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
- This video discusses the Scissors Takedown, and how it causes injury, either to the ankle or the knee.
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Hey Chadi! Thanks for this breakdown. It's so important for people to get educated about it so what happened to me wouldn't happen to others. I also liked your point about this move where not giving an opportunity to tap. I certainly didn't have it. It happened so quickly and I only tapped when my bone was already broken (which is not ideal timing). Also, thank you for your kind words at the beginning of the video.
Recover well brother, you can always reach out if you need anything 🙇🏻♂️
Did the guy who did this to you get kicked out of the school?
@@nappyheadedno apparently the coaches didnt even check on him, rokas has done a video on it, check it out.
Get well soon man, love the USD series, can't wait for season two. Sorry you ran into an idiot in open mat.
Kani-basami can be done safely if you post your arm on the mat to control your weight and use you leg to take down similar to tani-otoshi. The jumping version which is being talked about is dumb.
"Step 1 on stopping kani basami: Don't roll with assholes" -Jordan Teaches Jiujitsu (2024)
I watched ?Jedi? doing it on his channel (I believe) I was horrified, he did not do it correctly and rolled the guys knee/ankle
There is actually a counter technique you would have known, if you play judo. You just drop on one knee, see “My Judo” by Masahiko Kimura or a longer biography by Jim Chen
Easy to say, not easy to apply in an competition, an open mat or a new guy at your academy.
If you followed that rule, there wouldn't be anyone to train with.
@@therealdestructicus False. Stop drinking Lead paint chip smoothies.
A member of that gym said that the same guy did it to another partner soon after.
And as Rokas mentioned, the trainers and members didn't show any concern when he got injured.
I think the name of the gym should be mentioned - seriously.
Let people know which gyms can be dangerous to your health.
Agree!! Something like this should be known, so people can be careful and avoid unnecessary injuries!
Agreed.
Private message
@@Matt-jc2ml Just post it for everyone.
Yeah it should be named. I haven’t trained anything for years but letting your patrons & students get hurt by illegal techniques is ridiculous.
Maybe they might think they are protecting the one gym or trainers or whatever who maybe made an honest mistake by not reacting properly, but you’re undermining the WHOLE industry.
Now people like me have to kind of second guess the whole endeavor of training again. Violent careless people exist EVERY aspect of life…. But training in a gym with all the waivers being signed etc. is one of the last places where there apparently aren’t repercussions and IF we are not even identifying the people and gyms responsible and at a minimum letting regular MARKET forces work it out then it sounds like your just creating a venue for these people to showcase and have their violence and callousness protected.
Enough of these incidents occur and the entire industry suffers.
One of the few banned throws that I agree with banning.
Even if Uke survives Kani-basami, you can see it was a close call 99% of the time.
Even the technical demonstration in this video looks somewhat sketchy to me, although I'm by no means a grappling expert.
Im a judo brown belt and the technical demo made me queasy
@@kullenberg
Since it is that dangerous, it needs to be praticed when traning for real-life combat. Obviously, without soarring.
@@omarmirza9957 OK buddy, you try kanibasami, I will try a sharp knife. Since it's life and death combat I am sure you won't mind.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 I think it should be trained in a technical way with the two guys aware of what they're doing but definitely not in sparring even less on an unaware sparring partner
I’ve had people perform that on me on open mat events on multiple occasions generally these people were visitors from other gyms who came to do a shared class, I never got injured but that’s because I trained judo since I was 4 years old so I know how to immediately fall down safely if someone applies that, and I STILL had plenty of close calls.
This move should only be taught for self defense and technical purposes and NEVER should be used under any circumstances on any sort of competition or sparring practice.
NEVER.
How do u sit on it with them also pulling on you?
@@cloudmaster182The move forces you to sit down, you only get injured if you try to fight it. Treat it like a rocking chair and you'll be okay, or even better, keep your legs bent and staggered and they can't even attempt it
@@micaylapresley💯💯💯
The name of the person and the gym/dojo should both be revealed.
Lmao
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 Hurr hurr hurr!!!
No. Stop this BS that doxxing people is appropriate.
What happened is honestly unacceptable. The dude who did this should be ashamed
Should be punished
There’s always a try-hard guy in every gym, I avoid most of them, especially if I don’t know them well, for safety reasons. I have a day job to go back to the next morning, I don’t ever want to have a life altering injury and lose my livelihood because some idiot wants to win a roll at the gym.
I bet he's the type of guy who watches TH-cam to learn new moves, and, when he sees one he likes, he thinks to himself, "Can't wait to try that tomorrow at open mat."
And pay for the surgery and medical expenses
And pay for the surgery and medical expenses
Thank you for this video- another friend of mine received a career-ending injury because of an over-zealous dojo training partner. Don’t break your training partners. We all want another day to train….
Damn, Rokas is a good guy...I hope he recovers well
He is a good guy but maybe he will have some sympathy for Ramsey Dewey now.
@@willspeakman2461 Rokas said something bad about ramsey?
@@dzen_dzenkazan8050 Rokus hosted the Self defense thing in Australia. Ramsey got a knee injury from it and nobody apologised. He most likely could of sued the organisation and won a massive payout.
@@willspeakman2461 oh, well, rokas at least didn't say or did anything, unlike the self defence instructor there
@@willspeakman2461 That was a dumb accident though, someone slipped and fell on him from a height. If you perform Kani Basami you are just fine with injuring uke.
I have seen injuries from this over the years ( Jujutsu / Judo). We learn it for combat use ( and used it in the 90's for Sport Jujutsu) but NO longer for sport. We wish Rokas a speedy recovery 🙏
Kano- basami is simply a technique that should be taught to use in self defense. It should not be use in sparring or competition. Beware of meatheads in dojos. All banded techniques should be taught and practice as self defense only.
This is a great point
I seen a white belt got leg locked in his first rolling session when he was paired up with a purple belt. Meat head sparring partner also injured him
I think the uses of Kani are very limited in self defense. First you would need to *know* that it was 1 on 1. If he has a friend you've just put yourself in field goal position😢
@@Bristan I’m a 60 year old Black man from crown heights Brooklyn. My neighborhood was feature in two Hollywood block busters , Ghost and Samuel Jackson’s SHAFT. My hood was featured because it was widely known for being very dangerous. Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris could never defeat multiple knowledgeable assailants in a bar fights. Self defense is all about survival not being an invincible fighting machine. I’m a Seido Juku karate ka with who studied and admire judo. It’s my opinion that judo is superior to BJJ for self defense. Throws and take downs are very devastating to opponents who don’t know how to land.
@lannelbishop3668 I live less than 20 miles from Crown Heights. I've studied judo for 15+ years, along with some other arts. I agree with you that Judo is a better self defense art than BJJ, if taught correctly. It is that very reason I wouldn't use Kani in self defense if I had other options. Kani is a sacrifice throw, you end up on the ground too. That is fine if you Incapacitated the opponent, or if he doesn't have friends. If either one is false, you just put yourself in a bad position, where BJJ would have been more useful... basically I agree with everything you said with the caveat that I wouldn't use this technique.
I saw Rokas' video. I have no problem training dangerous moves, but giving the move the respect it deserves and making sure your training partner agrees before you start should be paramount. Rokas having no clue that his partner could attempt this was absolutely wrong. Add to fact his gym was unprepared and no one stopped to help him is absolutely disgusting.
Kani Basami is legal in all BJJ gym. BJJ just exclude body slam, punhing and kicking. Anything allowed even if it was banned in Judo. Maybe you can go try some Kawazu Gake.
@m5a1stuart83 Flying scissors is extremely dangerous. Even the method I was taught and use is still dangerous even though it is safer. I never throw it unless I am training with someone who knows I may attempt it and knows how to protect themselves should I try. I know BJJ allows things that are banned in Judo, and while I have griped about some of the banned things in Judo, others I fully understand. I'm personally of the opinion that techniques banned because of danger should still be practiced, but it must be done with the utmost respect for them and the people you are training with.
It's illegal in IBJJF
In capoeira they do a safer variaton of this, its called "tesoura", scissor in brazilian portuguese. In judo the judokas jump and they land diagonally puting all the weight on your opponent's knee. The capoeira variation they jump sideways in perpendicular angle, puting the hands on the floor, the hips are used to block the opponent's movimentation, and then they do the twist usign the legs. The weight distribution Its way better, not putting too much weight you your opponets knee , and by putting one or two hands on the floor makes your leg twist movement stronger.
In Hapkido they use the same variation safely. It is applied when the opponent is sideways and in most times one hand touches the ground to guide the fall smoothly.
Yes, I trained capoeira for years and applied and took this takedown several times and never seen anyone injuried. I think the main problem with the judo/bjj version is the gi grip that allows the movement to start higher and thus having a downward movement putting the weight on the opponents leg, while in capoeira is a more horizontal movement.
If you see the submission of Ryo Chonan against Anderson Silva looks a lot like the capoeira version, I think is because the lack of gi grip.
Yes, in all my years of capoeira (decade+), I've never seen someone injured by tesoura and came to the same conclusion. Even posted about the technical differences on Chadi's original kani basami video. I feel for Rokas.
@@boachan888 in my taekwondo days we learned a flying scissor and set it up from a "missed" side kick. Always with great emphasis on turning the hips over and actually scissoring the legs.
Sounds a lot like Scissor takedown from Sanda.
I unironically think people who do this move should be sued; the person performing the move knows the high risk for serious injury to the opponent and shows blatant disregard for their wellbeing. Actions need to have consequences.
I agree but which rule apply on an open mat ? Ibjjf ? Adcc ? Something else ? Do the People going to an open mat sign a paper to agree on certain rules ?
If you want to do it safely, just don't tag on the gi. People in the comments, and i myself can say that's it's done safely all the time in capoeira by not grabbing the guy you throw by the hand or clothes and putting your hands on the ground instead. Also, receiver should not let his knee collapsing inward, as stated in the video
I agree, if the class has been warned not to do it.
@@alexkozliayev9902 Yes posting hand on the ground is good, same for flying triangle etc.
@@JCBPARISPARIS Common law negligence will cover the law suit, Law of the land still applies everywhere, don't need any official rules.
I never knew the dangers. I trained wingchun, jujitsu, catch as catch can, hop gar, and tai chi. I saw a mma fighter, kung lee; use it easily and effectively in his matches; normally with a fake side kick, off to the opponents side. After that I praticed it and used it sparring and playing around. It was very effective. Luckily I never hurt any of my training partners with it. Thanks for the great content Chadi; really like your breakdowns, and understanding; keeps me sharp and learning more. Thank you
Thank you for making this video.
I can honestly say, it changed my perspective. I grew up in martial arts and kani basami, or scissors takedown, as we called it, was one of my favorite throws. When it was outlawed in Judo (I cross-trained quite a bit, I didn't learn it by the English name in Judo), I was outraged. I was warned of the dangers when I learned it as something that can happen if you end up sideways, nearly perpendicular to your partner. From that perspective, a lot of moves can be dangerous if you to them completely wrong and try to force them. I continued practicing it and using it outside of competition and in other sports. I have never seen a breakdown like this, showing how easy it is for a well-intended, well-trained practitioner to cause injury. I will no longer argue for the use of this move and will no longer use it, except in explicitly structured training and will take the safety precautions you advised in those cases.
I hope Rokas has a swift recovery. He has been a continual source of inspiration for me since his first video testing the efficacy of Aikido against MMA.
1:57
Exactly. Jiu jitsu guys should be trained better in understanding how dangerous takedowns can be. Just as they should do with leg locks.
There needs to be a separate class with an experienced instructor to teach the do’s and do nots with take downs.
Also Rokas’s injury happen in an open mat. That not really the place to be have at takedownfest not just because of inexperience but also because if you guys are not careful you could end up landing on do dudes just rolling.
Yeah the gym near me has a "wrestling for BJJ" class with a separate instructor which focuses more on the stand-up to ground part than just the ground.
The problem with this takedown is the hand grip.
You can see scissors takedown (Tesoura) in Capoeira and it is one of the most popular takedowns you see in Roda(capoeira "ring") i have seen it also in other striking arts too and % with injuries is pretty low compared to grappling arts.
The problem is that when they hold for collar or neck and when people who are trying to do this technique just jump on somebody and wait until they fall... and then bad things happen.
I do not trying to offend or defend anyone here. I am also after knee reconstruction (broken ACL) and I do not recommend anyone to get knee injuries (seriously...don't do it guys! Heh).
The problem is that some people have no chill or too big ego or just do NOT think...
But yes. This technique shouldn't be legal because it is dangerous.
I feel the same way. Cung Le used this technique in many of his Sanda matches.
Kanu basami and jumping guard…. I still cannot understand how people do these things. Devastating injuries result almost 99% of the time
You want to ban jumping guard too? This world is getting so soft
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857the vast majority of paying customers aren’t professionals or Olympians, we practice martial arts for its health benefits, supportive community, and arguably self defense. One of the most terrifying experiences I’ve had involving BJJ was someone performing a scissor takedown on me, both of our body weight on my knee, falling without control. There’s no opportunity to tap, there’s no way to break fall or post my arm out to save my knee. I have a normal day job to go back to after training, I never want my knee to explode because of a hobby, and luckily my knee wasn’t injured. If you want someone to perform a scissor takedown or jump guard on you, it’s your choice, just don’t force it on everyone else.
No, from what I’ve seen, nothing bad happens at least 95% of the time but of course that
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 Why are you jumping guard lil bro, stand and do a judo throw or wrestle
Thanks for posting this video, Chadi! I've never met Rokas, but he seems like a good guy, and I was saddened to hear this happened to him. With any luck, the videos each of you put out will help prevent something like this happening again. It's so unnecessary.
1000% agree. Kani Basami is very dangerous.
I got my blue belt in a gym like the one Rokas got injured in. They are brutal over there, and I got injured a lot (usually minor), even with decades of other martial arts experience. I'd never tell any beginner to go in there. I just did it because it was literally a couple of blocks away and felt that I could protect myself from the worst injuries. The only good thing about training in those schools is that it is a lot more like a street fight, and you learn accordingly how to deal with these people. Jumping guard, scissor takedowns, cranking, ripping submissions... You are with the sharks and you have to protect yourself. Be very careful who you trust with your training, especially if you are new to the mats.
People can make Tani Otoshi dangerous.
Unless you have Kyuzo Mifune levels of skill then attempting Kani Basami in Randori or Shihai is reckless.
In which way can one make Taniotoshi dangerous?
I am currently trying it out and want to add it to my moveset, but i think it is fairly safe.
@@user-cq7zi4hu1l Mainly if you try do it head on and try to get around your opponent... but miss the angle and wrench their leg instead of pulling them down.
Its fairly safe if you use it as a turn throw counter.
@@user-cq7zi4hu1l I would recommend looking up Shintaro Higashi's video on Tani Otoshi. He goes over how to do it safely in a kata form, and also shows how it can get dangerous with a minor positioning change, particularly of the sort that can happen in the heat of the moment in a competitive match or hard sparring/rolling.
Tani Otoshi I have seen responsible for more injuries than any other throw in competition and randori. Often the leg ends up too high and gets behind the knee when they drop their weight. Horrible knee injuries. I’ve cut it out of my moveset after a few near misses and focus on clean ashi waza in my counters
@@user-cq7zi4hu1l it can be perfectly safe!
Just make sure that you don't touch their legs and don't do an excessive circular motion.
The principal of the technique is applying your weight to the direction of the Uke's back. The leg slide is executed order to complete your sacrificial fall and not as a way to block the opponent's legs.
Make sure you practice it for some time in Nage Komi and that you perform it properly.
Wow, they train this in Japanese Jujitsu quite a bit, but I've never seen it with the arm trapped, vicious move.
I immediately thought of you when I saw Rokas's video about his injury because you have made multiple videos about how dangerous this move is and how it should be avoided.
It's great your highlighting yet again how important it is to consider the safety of your uke. We should all keep highlighting it until people actually do it.
I feel Kani Basami should NEVER be used in competition or sparring, however if you are literally trying to break someones leg, excellent technique. The one and ONLY time I've seen this live was when my sensei did it as a demo on someone (it was his birthday present) so Sensei did this on a willing and UNRESISTING opponent and it looked extremely graceful and powerful, however you could see how wrong anything could go if he was in the slightest bit off.
In my mid 30s I dropped training Muay Thai in favor of Filipino Martial Arts.
The aspect of fighting for your life against a weapon chamged my view on "combat" sports training. Because training weapons means you have the skill training broken up into safer aspects I saw the wisdom of the traditional arts training.
But many proponents of combat sports forget that the emphasis is more on "sport" than combat.
Tesouro de Costas in Capoeira seems to be done without so many of these issues. Maybe it's the way capoeristas are taught to escape it! Just some extra information for everyone.
Rather than the way to escape, i think the problem lies on the grip. I know traditional jujutsu and judo, while my little brother done silat. I just look up tesouro of capoeira, and its done the same way in silat, which is the hands are supposed to be free, compared to judo which the hands are used to grip/grab the opponent's gi. This caused a mor of imbalance towards the receiver. Whereas tesouro and guntingan ( silat's scissor throw ) causing the receiver to fall forward or backward, judo's kani basami causes the receiver to fall backwards, forwards, and sideways. The sideways fall is usually the common injuries, as far as i know.
What i'm trying to say is, if you done tesouro while grabbing your receiver's shirts, then maybe he will get the injuries too. So its not about escape, more like how the techniques supposed to be used in certain martial arts, because grappling arts like judo, jujutsu, sambo etc, mainly uses grip 😊
Kani basami claims another one; damn, said it once and I’ll say it again; kani basami is the only technique where you’re better off someone successfully hittimg it on you than messing it up
BJJ has a total disregard for the safety of their practicioners. So many tecniques that are banned in Judo and even Sambo that can be done in BJJ is ridiculous. That guy is fucked up for life.
Go do judo then safety guy
That's why the only BJJ I've learned is Gracie Jiujitsu combatives and never got into the sport. Most people who are into sports BJJ eventually end up with permanent injuries. I'd rather just know enough GJJ to help me survive a fight that goes to the ground and end it at that.
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 what do you mean ? even sparring with a agressive partner or not Judo is still 10 time safer than BJJ anyday
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 thos is exactly what he's talking about
Thanks for throwing all of BJJ under the bus?
Honestly, I have trained at like 10 different bjj gyms and ALL of them have this move banned.
I am sorry you are afraid of someone exposing your weakness in grappling by being ankle picked, fireman carried, single-legged, double-legged, flying triangled, or flying armbarred. Yet that's not a reason to call our martial-art and sport, "too dangerous".
Thank you Chadi, for spreading this message. This move needs to be made aware and the damage it causes.
Scary technique, thankfully not in Sumo.
Kanami basami is a dangerous throw it's banned for a reason
Excellent as always thank you chadi
I really agree with this video. I think that kani basami should be banned in all grappling sports (judo,bjj,wresting...). However, some people in bjj, especially in mma, seem not to understand this, and they suggest kani basami, as a sigle leg takedowns counter, as if it was just another takedown. They definitely, can't figure out, how dangerous it can be. But, what can you expect from people who don't know how to do a basic O goshi, they aren't afraid of what this takedown can cause. They regard it, as a simple technique like O soto gari, kouchi gururma,...
My only doubt is if do-jime should be banned, as well as kani basami? Is it to dangerous? I founded a little bit difficult to apply, and according to the video, with ashi-garami, you can stop uke from making pressure in a submision, not the case with takedowns, such as kani basami.
Thanks for the super informative video!
What I find interesting about scissoring takedowns is that the injuries happen in grappling, so it's often banned. In capoeira it's more common and people don't get injuries, because in their mindset they don't mind going to the ground or being taken down, they just flow out of it. In judo people are trying so hard not to lose points from getting taken down that they resist at all costs even when it's doesn't make sense, and in BJJ people probably apply too much pressure to the scissors because they're always going for the tap.
In grappling arts, I'm glad it's banned. Knee injuries are horrendous. At the same time, a change of mindset in how one trains, more fluidity, less competitiveness, tends to reduce injuries in general. You can practice with live motion and realistic feedback without the competitiveness ... collaboration over fighting, then everyone gets better together, and injuries are rare.
We use it in capoeira all the time without incident…it’s just a scissor take down…top leg should be higher around groin to waist…in capoeira we finish it taking lower leg over top knee strike to face…
No, it is not the same. Plenty of other commenters here already explained it for you.
Extremely well said. Subscribed.
Most of us in Jiu-Jitsu can't even do (or defend against) the Tani Otoshi properly, much less the Kani Basami.
What do you think about wakare recently? I think we see some injuries before it gets banned.
I had kani-basami performed on me when practicing taekwondo of all things, and while I didn't get seriously injured, my knee was busted for several weeks during which I couldn't train at all. I ended up quitting that dojang.
I am currently recovering from my second ACL surgery (two months out), and it sucks so hard, I don't think I will go back to doing juijitsu. I will buy a grappling dummy and practice at home ☠️.
I have first hand witnessed this move being done to someone in my Judo class last year and the person's knee was gone. It scared everyone in the gym.
Good video. Appreciate safety tip
I first learned this in Judo in the 80’s and did it for decades with zero injuries. But…. I have a different way of executing it. See if you can find this injury where the attacker has one hand on the mat. I place a hand 1st. And usually hold their wrist. (I know this might be confusing.But I was throwing it no-go a lot too). Anyway- I never let them carry all my weight. I’m not against banning it. This other version is quite different tho. Lands you in perfect leg locks 😊
The most devistating injury I caused was twisting someone during osoto gari. Make sure you always “sweep” their leg clean and straight. Never stay planted and twist. If you think that scissor leg is bad…. 😅 don’t do this. Ugly.
You should be against banning it because you are proof it can be done for decades with no injury
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 thanks. but, apparently, everyone else is shitty at it.;) lol. Maybe I’ll make an instructional. When I missed the entry I landed in a flying kneebar- which I’ve never seen anywhere else. Accidental discovery. To clarify- I did it differently. The one they’re doing maybe should be banned. 😅🙏
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857One person being good at doing it safely doesn't mean the technique is safe for use by the majority of knuckleheads who step on the mat.
Respecting a fellow competitor, that right there is the difference between a martial artist and a fighter
Was part of the curriculum at white belt in my first bjj school. No injuries. I guess we were all lucky. We were also taught to put a hand down , less like a flying guard pull.
I wish I can train with you chadi, it is amazing the way you construct your argument
In Silat, we have something similar to Kani-Basami that we call as Guntingan. Difference is, we only use it targeting the feet and the back of the knees so heavy injuries don't often happen.
I had an overzealous young blackbelt try a scissor sweep like this on me in a Kung Fu sparring session long ago and hyperextended my knee. That is the most pain I've ever felt in my life and I walked with a cane for a month. I was lucky to avoid surgery. So no, this is not something to use in anything other than a serious self defense situation where you would be legally permitted to cause great bodily harm to another person.
cannot agree more, does not belong in tournaments.
It should be legal in competition... but, that training partner is just a sadist. You never do that in the gym, ever. Not even once. Even drilling it is to be done and slowly. I feel bad for MAJ, got concussed a few times in Boxing/Muay Thai and it's a bit rough. Not being able to walk is worse.
As a Black Belt with over a decade of experience, I couldn't agree more with most of your points. This is a technique that should never be executed in the gym during live rounds. Its simply to dangerous & happens to quickly. The only place this technique is acceptable in my opinion, would be a high level competition with Professional Athletes who know what they signed up for & understand the risks a technique like this presents.
Excellent, where it’d be good to learn and know, but not in play or competition! Judo is a sport!
I hate that throw. Also the valley drop throw.
Update:
Rokas got this because of BJJ.
Well, that's the reason why I don't buy with BJJ cz Judo has CLEAR LINES of banned and allowed techniques.
Also, BJJ usually roamed by nasty tori(s) who'd like to torture the newbies with their gddamn dangerous movement.
Kani Basami can now be categorised as Japanese Jujutsu takedown as it's LETHAL.
there's a different between the term Judo n Jujutsu tho
Get well soon.
This one is banned at my Dojo. I learned the "Scorpion Mortal Kombat" variant first long ago.
Totally agree with you Chadi, can you also briefly cover the recent variation of 'kani basami' that Tatsuro Taira pulled against Alex Perez? Seems like for this 'variation', there's just no defence against it.
Gyms should make people sign paperwork they will not attempt this move on people.
What if you get hurt by a different move, will you ban that too? Will you eventually ban all moves and train hugging practice instead?
@@bobanmilisavljevic7857 Nope , unlike kani basami, all of the other common moves are fine because they are fully controllable so even if you got yourself into a unlucky situation you can still control the damage by yourself. Kani basami's risk is not fully controllable, that why it should be banned in every ways
I can't help but feel like some people target him for his status as a content creator and this might have been someone's perfect opportunity to really hurt him.
Wow man, you had quite a year... I wish you the best recovery possible!
Kani Basami, head butts, fish hooks, spine and neck cranks.
All the banned moves are the most effective to save your life.
For competition/training 100 percemt not allowed.
Shadow striking.
Practice with dummies.
Visualization.
If attacked, I will defend myself without prejudice.
Having been doing Judo for almost 20 years, I tell myself that it is a right to learn the techniques prohibited in judo, as I do, but to learn them for yourself, to enrich your culture of this martial art , but not to do it during a fight or competition, because it is dangerous for a reason. This is dangerous during a fight, because your opponent will not give in, so you will force it and therefore create injuries. But, it is not dangerous in demonstration and when your partner lets it happen. So, learn this technique, like Ashi Garami, Kibisu Gaeshi, or others... but only for you, in your Judo. But not in competition. But, thank you, for this video.
Chadi, look at the scissors takedown of Capoeira, they're done with purely legs only with no grabbing. This is the safe way.
I trained Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and learned a variant of this takedown; in training, my partner did it slightly wrong once and I suffered a sprained ankle, so I guess I got off easy.
For the position to do a Kani Basami, you can choose to do O guruma, Ura Nage, Kosoto, and so on. I never understand why choose Kani Basami.
Every throw has some degree of risk. But the risk with every throw is not equal. Kani Bassami simply isn’t worth it.
It's pretty common in the WJJF
we do this takedown in Capoeira all the time but these examples look like it's done backwards or done flying and seems so much more dangerous.
I agree with the proposed ban.. and yes, you can cartwheel out of it but unless you cartwheel like it's your last name, it's not coming out automatically.
I did a lot of this when I did karate, and there were few, if any, injuries. I think the reason why is that the fighting stance is side-on, so the knee isn't being attacked from the side but from behind. Whereas judo/bjj guys fight front-on, making it hard to do safely.
So, there is a technique that’s too dangerous to practice. We used to practice this all the time. No one got hurt, but throwing was part of the art, and we were expecting that technique. We didn’t do it in sparing. Some guy did that to me visiting from another school and kind of twisted my knee. It was sloppy. I showed him the correct was to do it, and told him we do not allow that technique in sparring here. After I demonstrated on him, he understood why. It’s really not that good of a technique against MMA trained people. That’s why it’s so unexpected. If it doesn’t work, you are in a very bad position. Thanks for the video.
Oddly enough this move is very common in capoeira.
I tried this once as an orange belt in Judo class, after seeing the move in a judo book. The move totally worked but I was chastised by the teacher. No one was hurt thankfully..
the same with jumping guard, "jita kyoei": dont be an ass to your training partners
I did this once on a guy who was 60 lbs heavier than me. Did it successfully and went straight to a heel hook position. He tapped, and we went on our merry way.
What's the counter to kana basami? I remember Masahiko Kimura trained the counter because his future opponent was an expert at doing it.
The counter to scissors is rock. Seriously, I would also be interested in hearing the answer to your question.
Its honestly not a super move, its fairly tricky to pull off. The counter is more about keeping your opponent in front of you and not giving them a ai-yotsu side to side fight.
Can't speak on a judo/bjj counter but one we use in capoeira is to simply turn towards the opponent, often they'll just slide off. Has to be caught early though and may not be possible in judo/bjj because of the grips. There's others but difficult to describe through text.
Thanks for the info about counter moves.
th-cam.com/video/a-ou9C8DL1Q/w-d-xo.html
Hey Chadi, what do you think of a no gi variation of Osoto Gari? I use to shoot my right under hook in and launch my right leg behind my opponents right leg and fall into the takedown. Do you think this should be illegal? Would you call this Osototo Gari? It doesn't use the leg to reap like the traditional version.
Noted. I foolishly did it in some BJJ tournaments with success and no injuries (thank God), but what good is it if we can't compete anymore in the future
If someone did that to me in a tournament, I'm throwing in strikes.
@@adrianprincipe2370you're scared of takedowns. Hopefully the person you try to strike is a higher level striker than you
@@adrianprincipe2370 I will say, it was a counter to a single-leg, so it wasn't a complete Hail-Mary. But still, not wise
I hope this message gets spread and people listen!
This is what messed up Tyler spangler’s leg too
Marcos Ruas usa una variacion de esta tecnics.
Works great for street fight
Use to do it all the time in kung fu class of all places and everyone was hitting it all day and never getting hurt and then when i learned it in BJJ and shoot wrestling and sambo I saw people getting injured from it a lot, and the thing I noticed is that in kung fu class there was no hanging your weight on the person right before executing it, instead we would just do hands free while moving forward and be very fast on the scissor motion and what would happen is the feet get lift off the air and they never trapped underneath weight and the person just lands hard on their back. Hopefully this advice helps people practice it in a non-injuring way.
In Jujutsu we do Kani Basami ABOVE the belt. Less broken legs (slightly more whiplash / back of head into the mat eep).
imagine being the person who discovered / first practiced this move 😳😳😳
There are more practical throws/takedowns that are easier to accomplish and look just as impressive. There should be a sign in all gyms saying not to do it.
Honestly this. For all the glamour people put on this as a flashy forbidden move... its not really great. Even its ability to injure people is unreliable.
I was heartbroken when i saw his video 😢
Hello Chadi! That’s a really interesting video. I have a question, i was asking myself, if you have a take on this. In capoeira we do the „tesoura“ frequebtly, but even when it’s done with more force, there are almost no reports or videos of people getting hurt by it. I wonder, if the technique or setup differs somehow? Best wishes to Rocus on his recovery.
Not chadi, but i would like to share a thought.
In judo, you grab the opponents gi, causing you to hang on them while doing the kani basami. Thus, compared to tesouro (i looked it up quickly at youtube, its done the same like guntingan in silat, and several technique alike in karate, hapkido and taekwondo etc) which make you either fall forward or backward, kani basami makes you fall forward, backward, and sideways ( again, because the hanging from the side part ). If you looked at kani basami accident, you will notice the pattern that i said above. I think if you do tesouro while hanging on your opponent's shirt, the risk of injury also increase
Also, in Judo, your opponent is fighting 💯 not to be thrown for a score. It makes it all more dangerous. There isn't much ability to slip in and out of moves so easily.
I'm not sure of the name, but there is an alternative takedown in scenarios that allow for leg grabs that is much safer where you circle to the outside and hook the knee with the outside hand, then just sit down without losing any control of your own body weight, or even with a forward roll on the outside shoulder.
It depends on how you do the technique. It’s common in capoeira and used to be Cung Le’s go to move back in his early sanda days. I actually pulled it off on one of his student’s in competition, no injuries at all.
As a kid I used this technique even in competitions until it got forbidden still effective technique
Used this 1000 times in a 20 year period. Never had an injury happen.
Kani basami is dangerous,this technique is banned in all martial art, also bjj, i think is good for playing slow.
Got a sprained ankle from someone doing this to me back in 2012. It worked, he got me down and into the position he wanted, but my ankle was done lol. Should definitely not be done rolling. Drilling it and doing it in fights/mma sure. Grapping comps and tourneys, I think it depends on the level and type.
Isn't this particular maneuver designed for the upper leg/hip area. This is more of a combative/battlefield mentality. Thank you Chadi. Discipline is a big part of martial arts. 🙇🏾♂️🙏🏾✌🏾
Lmao you said it's more for a battlefield? 🙄
Thanks for the video! Could you tell us how to reduce the risk of injury if some idiot still makes this throw? Am I right in thinking that the best thing is to immediately fall down without resisting at all?
This should only be allowed purple belt and above in competition, and coaches need to make clear what moves are not allowed in the gym.
This takedown is more dangerous in Jiu Jitsu and Judo because of the Tatami mat surface, it's especially dangerous in wrestling yet not nearly as dangerous in CAMBO and it's all for the same reason.
Jiu Jitsu and Judo have a tatami mat surface that provides a lot of friction while wrestlers wear shoes that have a gripping surface on their soft slick mats and that provides a lot of friction... it's this friction that doesn't allow the foot to slide out and that is what causes the knee damage.
In Cambo AKA "Sambo" the shoes have a slick leather bottom plus the surface of the mat is slick like all surfaces used for wrestling... tatami mats have incredible friction while slick mats coupled with the wrestling shoe literally stick Like Glue allowing the phenomenally fast action we see in wrestling meanwhile in the sport of Cambo the Slick leather sole of the shoe coupled with the slick soft surface of the wrestling mat allows the foot to slip out and not fold over into the all familiar pattern we see where serious knee injuries occur