I think going over certain armor weights should impact your dexterity, similar to going stout, or overweight etc. It makes sense that the heavier Armor you are wearing, the less dexterous you are. so like over 10 armour weight you drop a point of dex per 2kg over 10, so like 20kg heavy armoured dude would drop you down 5 dex. Oghs in like 30kg plate drop down 10 dex. Could balance these values a bit. Could make it so that it works the same for under 10kg, so naked (0kg) you would be at +5 dex, or to better the balancing without hitting heavy too hard, making it so that under 10kg values are doubled, so naked would be +10 dex, someone in mage armor at like 4kg would be at +6 dex. I've talked about this a lot but I think dexterity should also have an impact on archer accuracy. Similar to games like mount an blade, I would love to see the aiming circle for archery start quite large, and for arrows to deviate within that space, having higher dexterity, and perhaps a skillbook to teach better aiming reduce that circle size, reducing deviation and making you more accurate as an archer. This way archers have to build in dexterity, instead of just taking max strength. This, along with the dexterity balancing for armor I talked about above also helps balance Mounted Archers, making so that you cant just ignore all dexterity and lazer people in mounted combat, and also means that likely mounted archers wouldnt be picking heavy armor, as they wouldnt want the dexterity penalty. A lot of changes I would like to see, I guess we just have to follow their progress for now, I have a feeling a lot will change over time.
As long as mobility (running, swimming, riding) is limited by armor im happy. You can choose to be a heavy archer, but points would keep you either from riding effectively or playing in melee.
This fantastical legolas alvarin foot archer dream is not realistic and is shit, Heavy foot-fighters wear plate, hybrids foot archers wear medium armor, mages wear light. It sounds like the fact that so many people play heavy foot-fighters is what you take issue with. Its hilarious anyone even suggesting a stam nerf to any frontline footfighters because of the current state of stamina regen.
the issue with mortal armor crafting is that is tiered. plate armor is the last tier, and is supposed to be the most powerful. already compared to mo1 medium armor had quite a buff. on the other hand, nerfing plate too much would make it useless (it happened in Mo1 as well, and got reverted very fast).
I think the best way would be add a more prominent speed debuff for armors in general. Doesn't matter what armor you wear, the heavier the slower you should be. Easy fix
A 130kg man-beast shouldn't have to care about a 25kg armor. A 70kg Veela however should have problems wearing something that heavy. Maybe linking armor weight to your overall weight/ strength could give the armor system a little more variety.
If you wear medium armor, even reptile armor only protects you from 50% of slash attacks, and players in full steel armor can still hit you for 55 damage. Wearing light armor is even worse; you'll take 77 damage. Even wearing heavy armor, there are players who can hit you for 70s because of trinkets and 11% slash rings. There are a lot of new items that weren't in MO1, and they're giving players who have them a big advantage over players who don't.
Speed debuff with less 110str,that is it, a simple fix. Cuz if im a Thursar, Oghimir, Kallar with 115+ str and 90 dex, debuffing my already low speed will break the game.
It costs skill points to use heavier armor, if you wear too heavy armor you do get a speed debuff. Speed debuff would change the whole game, speed is king in games like this. Just look at MO1. You also want people to go out in expensive stuff, so that there's good pvp loot.
It occurred to me while reading through the comments, that most of the speed and playstyle balancing seems to be done at the clade stage, while creating your character. Assuming anyone wishing to play an armored hardhitting tank will choose playing a thursar or oghmir. While the smaller dex fighter's will choose veela. I am not saying this is necessarily a bad approach, but most of the balancing seem to happen here, with an attempt to balance the Clades, and not the playstyles. I do think armor types should have a bigger impact on the playstyle. Visibility with certain helmets maybe, stamina penalty (which is already a thing), and maybe even some sort of adjustment to speed(like combat momentum). I know people don't want a speed penalty for convenience etc, but I think by taking off a piece of armor or two while on the move is acceptable. Someone in full plate should not be able to outlast a naked in a marathon.
While most of your points i agree with, there are a few things i think you should have weighed a bit more. Khurite Splinted has a very specific and overall important use as an armor set that can take dirt cheap materials and make the less focused on pieces for a warrior that doesnt skill into Heavy Armor Training. And since we havent seen them post about Kallardian Lamellar on stream for a "teaser" yet, we could end up later with a balanced armor style that is able to fit into non-HAT builds and use steel or cronite. Because a large part of the disparity between Plate and other armors is that you can use metal for plate. Armor weights over like 12 already have nasty penalty for swimming and wearing metal plate takes considerably more fall damage.
not veryone goes for armorweight in hybrid bulds. Heavy armor for mages means everyone needs to play amage and then armor will be completely irrelevant. The bumbeling in haevy armomr also annoys me even in melee fights. maybe they can be a bit slower. what is really bothering is that melee weapons in this game are a nerf/joke. You just have child sized weapons and weapon heads. And the sowrd is some kind of op noob weapon that can block even heavy hammers and does not need any skill to weild and hit.
Me and my friend play foot archers and we bumped into a Chad wearing plate, we pelted him with arrows and both set our bears onto him, hitting him repeatedly in steel armour. The guy actually ignored us both and killed the bears first, then killed us, and he simply ignored me power poking him in the back with spears lol.
i think resistance scaling on armor needs to be adjusted per dmg type (pierce , crush , slash). i think there needs to be a noticeable advantage between armors on these stats more so than there is right now. like plate armor should have half the crush res than its slash res and its pierce res should be 75% of slash. and medium armor could have an even spread of all 3, and light could have good crush res, medium slash, and low pierce
I think instead of nerfing plate armor I think medium and light armor should give ur character more run speed added on to the footspeed u already have and it could be cool if light or medium armor types had some magic resist, just so it gives people a reason to wear that armor type
I feel the same way. Trying to balance one thing can set other things off balance. I agree that they need to do something with armor, but it shouldn't be changing something that is already so fret over like speed. Maybe keeping the 5 armor piece template, but we can change certain parts of an armor piece (eg glove or the padding) to be from a medium armor and mix, match the other pieces from plate. I feel like the reason light and medium armors are not used is because of the lack of mana using hybrids, caused by lack of magic schools as well as the change in combat from MO1. It's easier to parry now and harder to beat someone if they can stand there passive regen. = heavy armor unless you are a mage. Edit: Magic hybrids using medium armor were everywhere in MO1, but I havent seen any in MO2. Maybe overall foot speed or some global stamina change needs to happen.PS I have 127 dex, just 6 speed over someone with 116dex as well as 20 less hp,less stam and less attribute points. Having a speed debuff for the 90+ points I have in heavy armor training would just defy the purpose 😂 I'm a heavy lean dex fighter. Less protection would be a death sentence, but I have so much invested to be faster.
I watch a buddy play this game and he did several tests with armor and weights and it actually does affect your run speed/top speed and your mounts run speed the heavier the weights on armor both on the player and the horse armor. Plus not all horses are the same and burn stamina more. Further, I think it's still balanced overall because you have to spend a few hundred points in order to be able to wear those heavy armors to your advantage and those points are so valuable you have to give up so much in order to have it. Finally, If you are a ranged player whether it's archer or mage you likely have less health but you can stand so far out of melee range to attack which in a group setting I feel like you need t be able to withstand multiple attacks from far away or up close or the armor isn't doing it's job. Can you share an example set of armor you feel is op? Because the only set I know of is so heavy most players can't wear and maybe they are only wearing a few pieces of it?
New to MO2 and never played the previous game. Will say, maybe a decent "skill" based balance could be visual for the helmets. Across the board, give reduced field of vision. Additionally provide, plus and minus damage for wearing/not wearing a helmet. Removal of the bow reticles may help? Playing a hybrid melee/mage user, wearing light/medium armor. Dex isn't the best low 80's on a human.
i think they should increase cast time for spells, and if you move you cancel your spell and need to cast again, maybe make it so every time you cast you get blind for 10 seconds and your screen goes all white due to the energy
like theres a over 2kg mana regen debuff, give speed a over 8kg (or w/e) debuff where speed falls from 100% gradually as you gain weighted armor, maybe capping the debuff at 85% or something above 23kg (or w/e) so it'd be like 8kg or less = 100%, 9kg = 99%, 10=98 etc. 23=85 edit: my only problem with relating ppls equipment to their speed is people will remove armor to flee/chase
I think plate armor should be basically impossible to wear for archers, or mages. The balance I see is make them more realistic. IRL, your speed isn't really affected by a well made full plate armor. You can tumble and run and jump all the same as without. But under the armor you generally have a gambeson which is a literal hoven. The drain on stamina is ungodly. But knights were basically unbreachable. Literal walking tanks. From a written account of a squire that encountered the French knight de Charny : what happens when you encounter a knight on the battlefield? You die. So, without adding the whole OP thing, I think the game should reflect the reality as in : drains stamina super fast, recovers it slower, but make it uber tanky. And also, Archers could wear legs and torso heavy, but not arms ans helmet.
Alright. I've given you a shot. I tried to get into what you were saying, but you have a rather peculiar issue in the way that you bring forth points. You are madly inconsistent. You contradict your points and then you try to explain yourself. Stick to one line of thought and I'll gladly begin to listen to you for more than your FF7 background music 😅 Which, for the record, I'm a huge fan of.
if people using full heavy they spending points for it. they not able to use magic at all because of penalty.yeah human have passive..but its nothing.u willnot be able use magic often because of it anyway. if people using veela for footfighter..they need to use less dex build then you. or they will have much less hp then other footfighters..and its already bigger problem. Yeah u can hit and run them with bow and magic...but they willnot be able to catch you too anyway=) I think plate armor meta its mostly because MA build is really popular. They can save many Action skills because they noot focused on footfighting at all. And just use it for more sustain and defence (Extra armor and other) From another hand..we have footfighters..they cant defend their horses vs ma. And only 1 chance to survive is kill enemy horse with longbow. They already need all possible movement speed and all possible defence. But still they not able to do anything vs footarchers or your type hybrid builds. Plus all plate gear cost much more resourses to craft. Its not worth at all sometimes. You can use some sets with cheap mats but you will have too much unused armor weight and will have pretty same defence as medium armor. I m playing less then month, but already have 260+ hours..and i think balance here pretty nice. Only 1 thing IMO wich really need to balance is melee weapons. Because its much easier to fight people with sword. You have blade wich really easy to aim, and its really hard to do handle damage..but most of other weapon types have big handles and u need to aim your hits with weapon head properly..and its really easy to avoid for enemy. He just gonna hug you all fight long=) I just wanted to say that balance here its not only about armor and build types..its like 40% about your gear..not 70-80% like in other mmo...but its really matter anyway! And sometimes its not worth at all=) using good heavy armor die with it over and over vs multiple people and then finally win few fight 1vs1..not worth all this craft time imo=)
In lieu of inertia. I think you should do a balance/knockdown check dependent on armor weight and rolled against the Action Skill Balance . It would provide another points sink for tanks. And make running/jumping/moving super fast and getting hit at the same time a little more risky.
More significant stam regen penalty for heavier armors regardless of armor training! Armor training should effect what weight armor you can wear without effects to movement speed but should have no bearing on stam regen penaltys which should scale with armor weight. I think 50% stam regen penalty for heaviest armors. My other idea is have armor weight effect max stamina rather than regen, if wearing the heaviest armor reduces your max stam by 25% it would be a choice of being capable of tanking more damage yet less effective at chasing and spamming attacks, or be capable of chasing and spamming more attacks but have less defensive capabilitys.
I think heavy armor is perfectly fine in the game as it currently is. the problem is there's no defensive spells. Imagine a wizard with a storm cloud around them redirecting arrows, a wall of fire that can actually kill someone who thought they can move completely through it. Instead, a rich and powerful wizard is stuck with literally parlor tricks.
I'm not into pvp but have no issue with the current approach to armors. Its similar to MO1 where I had toons who would always use light armor and others with heavy, with Tung or Ogh. I've also seen dex mages with plate armor too such as Ogh. It would mess up their mana regen but its possible. As you mention not everyone can be pleased all the time.
People continue to argue but Star vault have buffed and nerfed since launch of Mo1. Its really good as it is rn. No need for the speed change it will fuck up the game even more. If a heavy armor soldier is slowed down any dex mage can bring him down.
Yeah this topic frustrated me while playing a couple days ago to the point i deleted my character and now re-rolling. My build was a DEX Archer / dagger fighter, maximizing weak spot and movement speed (I was currently at 440, 1 more clade point would put me at 444) I was outside of a major city doing some gathering, when a thursar, on foot, plate armor and a 2-h sword started running toward me and my horse. He charged up a swing so I got my bow out and took a couple of pop shots at him. (12 dmg and 8 dmg) realizing his armor was so high, there was no winning the fight, I took off running.... this thursar literally caught up to me and was able to kill me in 4 swings. Chunking me for 40+ dmg each hit. BUT I COULD NOT out run him. Even in a straight line.... while re-rolling and playing around with stats. I realized that thursars and ogmirs can EASILY achieve 386-400 combat speed with very little DEX.... that means my 440 speed and medium armor, it would take forever to get enough distance to not get hit. I'm sorry but a heavy armor low dex fighter should not be able to stick to a 440 speed, medium armor fighter. But thats the way it is right now. So now that I realize the difference In 400 and 440 speed is almost zilch, I'm re-rolling to something better suited for heavier armor.
as a plate hybrid, would like to see sub 4kg armour get a form of sidestep/dodge, nothing too crazy just something to support rouge like players. Visual impermanent would be great for plate also.
100% agree, rerolled from a pal to veela archer, and find myself using the same armor I did on my pala. Doesnt seem quite right. Hope they fix it so we get to see more types of armor ingame
Plate armor in the medieval ages was actually designed to match the mobility and speed of ppl who wore light armor or no armor and most importantly, it was designed to allow knights to hop on and off their horses or get up off the ground with ease with as little delay as possible. Plate armor generally weighed 40 to 50lbs but didnt affect a knights speed too much especially since theyre trained and pretty damn strong so a higher stamina drain and slow regen would be a better balance for the game if any nerfing needs to be added. I think a faster stam drain and lower regen would be best balance cuz an archer running out of stam is far more detrimental than a footfighter losing stam cuz we can tank the hits (so non foot fighter builds should lose stam way faster and regen slower than footfighters). That would eliminate archers wanting to wear a full suit of plates and maybe only wear the chest and legs th-cam.com/video/qzTwBQniLSc/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/Ad5RJ3TeKSE/w-d-xo.html
40 pounds is still heavier than lighter armor and if two people are equally trained, the laws of physics state that the lighter armor wearer will run faster and be more agile. Just because the height of plate armor design was very efficient doesn't mean there was 0 penalty for wearing it.
@@chazdomingo475 i never said there wasnt penalties, i said with little delay as possible Edit: however, i think plate armor should reduce the footspeed by at least 8 points but offer 10 more points in defense so that there is an actual difference between dex footfighters with light armor vs heavy armor footfighters. That way they really do have a speed advantage and possibly land more hits but do less dmg while full plate armor should be slower, harder to land hits but hitting the light armor guy harder of course
Hey there, I love your videos. You're just as me new to this game and make exactly the same expieriences than me. I think just the exact way as you do. I'm rerolling right now because fat mages are for nothing at the moment. Every plate wearing Archer, Melee whatever is making heals as high as mine.
I'm brand new fat mage, tell me more about your experiences? What spells were you using, what kind of dmg were you doing, what types of abilities did you train in?
A speed debuff would ruin PvP fights. The front line would be useless, there would be no way to effectively prevent the enemy from reaching the rear line. I think each piece of heavy armor should reduce weakspot hit chance by 20%, so an archer in full plate would never crit. You can play as a rouge type, trading defense for offense.
I mean full steel armor should either be something you use at a chokepoint or en masse such that you can create a line of defense. Or from horseback. The idea that people in full plate can run around intercepting people in lighter armors trying to reach the backline is ludicrous. Just because you enjoy your meta doesn't mean it makes sense or should continue.
I didn't agree with most of what was said, till the end. Heavy armor users swinging slower might be an interesting tradeoff. Absolutely can't adjust speed, like you mentioned its the most important stat. Stamina nerf to heavy armor i think would be too rough. Swing speed on weapon... now thats interestng.
You can adjust speed. It just makes heavy armor very limited in use. There's nothing wrong with that. Heavy armor should be limited to something that is for organized battles where you can set up defensive lines. They shouldn't be out chasing down naked players and being solo murder machines.
Historically speaking, people wore the best armor they could afford. Later period plate armor was customized and had very little restrictions on mobility. If they truly want to reflect this in the game, then they need to up the difficulty in making plate armor. Additionally, having it reduce mana regen is a great limiter as well from a fantasy standpoint. One thing I think they could do for helmets though is add in vision restrictions based on the faceplate/visors. That would definitely limit their usage.
i don't wanna see any changes, it's pretty unrealistic how other games make you slower or give disadvantages for plate armor - theres a reason why plate armor was the "meta" in medieval warfare, and the only reason you wouldn't wear it was if you couldn't afford it... it was OP, foot and mounted archers everyone that could afford it had it, speed and mobility was never an issue, theres videos of people running and doing parkour with plate xd so I can see how mages Could be the only ones affected
Yeah this is simply false. People wear the best defense in war because defense is often what matters. It doesn't mean speed and agility is not impaired. Have you ever seen any warfare? Are people just sprinting willy nilly everywhere? Not usually. And the more they're carrying the slower they can do that. Usually they're stationary, trying to hold a line or waiting for a chance to advance. When they advance, there will generally be order to it and they won't just be sprinting trying to merc one random enemy soldier. So comparing warfare to what happens with plate armor wearers in mortal online is foolish. These people can literally chase down people horseback. It would never happen IRL. The elite community in this game just wants to be unstoppable juggernauts and it's sad. And it will kill the game in the end.
@@chazdomingo475 do you have the mental capacity of understanding that medieval plate armor weighs LESS than Modern gear that soldiers use to run, sprint, jump, crouch, and do all that probably faster and better than both of us can?? you can literally search "running in plate armor" on YT and educate yourself before going around commenting nonsense.
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I think going over certain armor weights should impact your dexterity, similar to going stout, or overweight etc. It makes sense that the heavier Armor you are wearing, the less dexterous you are. so like over 10 armour weight you drop a point of dex per 2kg over 10, so like 20kg heavy armoured dude would drop you down 5 dex. Oghs in like 30kg plate drop down 10 dex. Could balance these values a bit.
Could make it so that it works the same for under 10kg, so naked (0kg) you would be at +5 dex, or to better the balancing without hitting heavy too hard, making it so that under 10kg values are doubled, so naked would be +10 dex, someone in mage armor at like 4kg would be at +6 dex.
I've talked about this a lot but I think dexterity should also have an impact on archer accuracy. Similar to games like mount an blade, I would love to see the aiming circle for archery start quite large, and for arrows to deviate within that space, having higher dexterity, and perhaps a skillbook to teach better aiming reduce that circle size, reducing deviation and making you more accurate as an archer. This way archers have to build in dexterity, instead of just taking max strength.
This, along with the dexterity balancing for armor I talked about above also helps balance Mounted Archers, making so that you cant just ignore all dexterity and lazer people in mounted combat, and also means that likely mounted archers wouldnt be picking heavy armor, as they wouldnt want the dexterity penalty.
A lot of changes I would like to see, I guess we just have to follow their progress for now, I have a feeling a lot will change over time.
As long as mobility (running, swimming, riding) is limited by armor im happy. You can choose to be a heavy archer, but points would keep you either from riding effectively or playing in melee.
This fantastical legolas alvarin foot archer dream is not realistic and is shit, Heavy foot-fighters wear plate, hybrids foot archers wear medium armor, mages wear light.
It sounds like the fact that so many people play heavy foot-fighters is what you take issue with. Its hilarious anyone even suggesting a stam nerf to any frontline footfighters because of the current state of stamina regen.
the issue with mortal armor crafting is that is tiered. plate armor is the last tier, and is supposed to be the most powerful. already compared to mo1 medium armor had quite a buff.
on the other hand, nerfing plate too much would make it useless (it happened in Mo1 as well, and got reverted very fast).
-5 bow draw strength per plate piece and maybe a draw buff to weaker armor
I think the best way would be add a more prominent speed debuff for armors in general. Doesn't matter what armor you wear, the heavier the slower you should be. Easy fix
agreed
I guess but shouldn't some claves mitigate encumbrance? And I'm not just saying that cus I'm a massive Thursar beast or anything 😄
I’m agree
A 130kg man-beast shouldn't have to care about a 25kg armor. A 70kg Veela however should have problems wearing something that heavy. Maybe linking armor weight to your overall weight/ strength could give the armor system a little more variety.
If you wear medium armor, even reptile armor only protects you from 50% of slash attacks, and players in full steel armor can still hit you for 55 damage. Wearing light armor is even worse; you'll take 77 damage. Even wearing heavy armor, there are players who can hit you for 70s because of trinkets and 11% slash rings. There are a lot of new items that weren't in MO1, and they're giving players who have them a big advantage over players who don't.
Speed debuff with less 110str,that is it, a simple fix. Cuz if im a Thursar, Oghimir, Kallar with 115+ str and 90 dex, debuffing my already low speed will break the game.
It costs skill points to use heavier armor, if you wear too heavy armor you do get a speed debuff.
Speed debuff would change the whole game, speed is king in games like this. Just look at MO1.
You also want people to go out in expensive stuff, so that there's good pvp loot.
It occurred to me while reading through the comments, that most of the speed and playstyle balancing seems to be done at the clade stage, while creating your character. Assuming anyone wishing to play an armored hardhitting tank will choose playing a thursar or oghmir. While the smaller dex fighter's will choose veela. I am not saying this is necessarily a bad approach, but most of the balancing seem to happen here, with an attempt to balance the Clades, and not the playstyles.
I do think armor types should have a bigger impact on the playstyle. Visibility with certain helmets maybe, stamina penalty (which is already a thing), and maybe even some sort of adjustment to speed(like combat momentum). I know people don't want a speed penalty for convenience etc, but I think by taking off a piece of armor or two while on the move is acceptable. Someone in full plate should not be able to outlast a naked in a marathon.
While most of your points i agree with, there are a few things i think you should have weighed a bit more. Khurite Splinted has a very specific and overall important use as an armor set that can take dirt cheap materials and make the less focused on pieces for a warrior that doesnt skill into Heavy Armor Training.
And since we havent seen them post about Kallardian Lamellar on stream for a "teaser" yet, we could end up later with a balanced armor style that is able to fit into non-HAT builds and use steel or cronite. Because a large part of the disparity between Plate and other armors is that you can use metal for plate.
Armor weights over like 12 already have nasty penalty for swimming and wearing metal plate takes considerably more fall damage.
not veryone goes for armorweight in hybrid bulds.
Heavy armor for mages means everyone needs to play amage and then armor will be completely irrelevant.
The bumbeling in haevy armomr also annoys me even in melee fights. maybe they can be a bit slower.
what is really bothering is that melee weapons in this game are a nerf/joke. You just have child sized weapons and weapon heads. And the sowrd is some kind of op noob weapon that can block even heavy hammers and does not need any skill to weild and hit.
Me and my friend play foot archers and we bumped into a Chad wearing plate, we pelted him with arrows and both set our bears onto him, hitting him repeatedly in steel armour. The guy actually ignored us both and killed the bears first, then killed us, and he simply ignored me power poking him in the back with spears lol.
i think resistance scaling on armor needs to be adjusted per dmg type (pierce , crush , slash). i think there needs to be a noticeable advantage between armors on these stats more so than there is right now. like plate armor should have half the crush res than its slash res and its pierce res should be 75% of slash. and medium armor could have an even spread of all 3, and light could have good crush res, medium slash, and low pierce
1:40 is the best way to sum up SV's ambitions to balance the game. We could try, but it is difficult, so we wont do it.
Honesty its simple… like you said its all about the movement speed.. heavy armor should make you run slower
Really easy math: 1kg of armor - 1% stamina regen and/or -1% speed.
4:02 "only mages get the nerfs" is 100% facts. mages need some love😢
I think instead of nerfing plate armor I think medium and light armor should give ur character more run speed added on to the footspeed u already have and it could be cool if light or medium armor types had some magic resist, just so it gives people a reason to wear that armor type
I feel the same way. Trying to balance one thing can set other things off balance. I agree that they need to do something with armor, but it shouldn't be changing something that is already so fret over like speed. Maybe keeping the 5 armor piece template, but we can change certain parts of an armor piece (eg glove or the padding) to be from a medium armor and mix, match the other pieces from plate. I feel like the reason light and medium armors are not used is because of the lack of mana using hybrids, caused by lack of magic schools as well as the change in combat from MO1. It's easier to parry now and harder to beat someone if they can stand there passive regen. = heavy armor unless you are a mage.
Edit: Magic hybrids using medium armor were everywhere in MO1, but I havent seen any in MO2. Maybe overall foot speed or some global stamina change needs to happen.PS I have 127 dex, just 6 speed over someone with 116dex as well as 20 less hp,less stam and less attribute points. Having a speed debuff for the 90+ points I have in heavy armor training would just defy the purpose 😂 I'm a heavy lean dex fighter. Less protection would be a death sentence, but I have so much invested to be faster.
I watch a buddy play this game and he did several tests with armor and weights and it actually does affect your run speed/top speed and your mounts run speed the heavier the weights on armor both on the player and the horse armor. Plus not all horses are the same and burn stamina more. Further, I think it's still balanced overall because you have to spend a few hundred points in order to be able to wear those heavy armors to your advantage and those points are so valuable you have to give up so much in order to have it. Finally, If you are a ranged player whether it's archer or mage you likely have less health but you can stand so far out of melee range to attack which in a group setting I feel like you need t be able to withstand multiple attacks from far away or up close or the armor isn't doing it's job. Can you share an example set of armor you feel is op? Because the only set I know of is so heavy most players can't wear and maybe they are only wearing a few pieces of it?
New to MO2 and never played the previous game. Will say, maybe a decent "skill" based balance could be visual for the helmets. Across the board, give reduced field of vision. Additionally provide, plus and minus damage for wearing/not wearing a helmet. Removal of the bow reticles may help? Playing a hybrid melee/mage user, wearing light/medium armor. Dex isn't the best low 80's on a human.
i think they should increase cast time for spells, and if you move you cancel your spell and need to cast again, maybe make it so every time you cast you get blind for 10 seconds and your screen goes all white due to the energy
Lighter armor should mean faster swing speeds. Seems like a simple concept to me. The only issue is getting the balance just right.
Faster bow shots ?
Heavy armor should make archery attacks much slower, and maybe melee attacks slower to a lesser extent. They need to leave movement speed alone.
like theres a over 2kg mana regen debuff, give speed a over 8kg (or w/e) debuff where speed falls from 100% gradually as you gain weighted armor, maybe capping the debuff at 85% or something above 23kg (or w/e) so it'd be like 8kg or less = 100%, 9kg = 99%, 10=98 etc. 23=85
edit: my only problem with relating ppls equipment to their speed is people will remove armor to flee/chase
I think plate armor should be basically impossible to wear for archers, or mages. The balance I see is make them more realistic. IRL, your speed isn't really affected by a well made full plate armor. You can tumble and run and jump all the same as without. But under the armor you generally have a gambeson which is a literal hoven. The drain on stamina is ungodly. But knights were basically unbreachable. Literal walking tanks. From a written account of a squire that encountered the French knight de Charny : what happens when you encounter a knight on the battlefield? You die. So, without adding the whole OP thing, I think the game should reflect the reality as in : drains stamina super fast, recovers it slower, but make it uber tanky.
And also, Archers could wear legs and torso heavy, but not arms ans helmet.
I think helmet is one of the only areas that an archer would guaranteed cover, the possible benefits were always worth the drawbacks
Alright.
I've given you a shot.
I tried to get into what you were saying, but you have a rather peculiar issue in the way that you bring forth points.
You are madly inconsistent.
You contradict your points and then you try to explain yourself.
Stick to one line of thought and I'll gladly begin to listen to you for more than your FF7 background music 😅
Which, for the record, I'm a huge fan of.
if people using full heavy they spending points for it. they not able to use magic at all because of penalty.yeah human have passive..but its nothing.u willnot be able use magic often because of it anyway. if people using veela for footfighter..they need to use less dex build then you. or they will have much less hp then other footfighters..and its already bigger problem. Yeah u can hit and run them with bow and magic...but they willnot be able to catch you too anyway=)
I think plate armor meta its mostly because MA build is really popular. They can save many Action skills because they noot focused on footfighting at all. And just use it for more sustain and defence (Extra armor and other)
From another hand..we have footfighters..they cant defend their horses vs ma. And only 1 chance to survive is kill enemy horse with longbow. They already need all possible movement speed and all possible defence. But still they not able to do anything vs footarchers or your type hybrid builds.
Plus all plate gear cost much more resourses to craft. Its not worth at all sometimes. You can use some sets with cheap mats but you will have too much unused armor weight and will have pretty same defence as medium armor.
I m playing less then month, but already have 260+ hours..and i think balance here pretty nice. Only 1 thing IMO wich really need to balance is melee weapons. Because its much easier to fight people with sword. You have blade wich really easy to aim, and its really hard to do handle damage..but most of other weapon types have big handles and u need to aim your hits with weapon head properly..and its really easy to avoid for enemy. He just gonna hug you all fight long=)
I just wanted to say that balance here its not only about armor and build types..its like 40% about your gear..not 70-80% like in other mmo...but its really matter anyway! And sometimes its not worth at all=) using good heavy armor die with it over and over vs multiple people and then finally win few fight 1vs1..not worth all this craft time imo=)
In lieu of inertia. I think you should do a balance/knockdown check dependent on armor weight and rolled against the Action Skill Balance . It would provide another points sink for tanks. And make running/jumping/moving super fast and getting hit at the same time a little more risky.
More significant stam regen penalty for heavier armors regardless of armor training! Armor training should effect what weight armor you can wear without effects to movement speed but should have no bearing on stam regen penaltys which should scale with armor weight. I think 50% stam regen penalty for heaviest armors.
My other idea is have armor weight effect max stamina rather than regen, if wearing the heaviest armor reduces your max stam by 25% it would be a choice of being capable of tanking more damage yet less effective at chasing and spamming attacks, or be capable of chasing and spamming more attacks but have less defensive capabilitys.
I think heavy armor is perfectly fine in the game as it currently is. the problem is there's no defensive spells. Imagine a wizard with a storm cloud around them redirecting arrows, a wall of fire that can actually kill someone who thought they can move completely through it. Instead, a rich and powerful wizard is stuck with literally parlor tricks.
I'm not into pvp but have no issue with the current approach to armors. Its similar to MO1 where I had toons who would always use light armor and others with heavy, with Tung or Ogh. I've also seen dex mages with plate armor too such as Ogh. It would mess up their mana regen but its possible. As you mention not everyone can be pleased all the time.
People continue to argue but Star vault have buffed and nerfed since launch of Mo1. Its really good as it is rn. No need for the speed change it will fuck up the game even more. If a heavy armor soldier is slowed down any dex mage can bring him down.
Yeah this topic frustrated me while playing a couple days ago to the point i deleted my character and now re-rolling. My build was a DEX Archer / dagger fighter, maximizing weak spot and movement speed (I was currently at 440, 1 more clade point would put me at 444)
I was outside of a major city doing some gathering, when a thursar, on foot, plate armor and a 2-h sword started running toward me and my horse. He charged up a swing so I got my bow out and took a couple of pop shots at him. (12 dmg and 8 dmg) realizing his armor was so high, there was no winning the fight, I took off running.... this thursar literally caught up to me and was able to kill me in 4 swings. Chunking me for 40+ dmg each hit.
BUT I COULD NOT out run him. Even in a straight line.... while re-rolling and playing around with stats. I realized that thursars and ogmirs can EASILY achieve 386-400 combat speed with very little DEX....
that means my 440 speed and medium armor, it would take forever to get enough distance to not get hit.
I'm sorry but a heavy armor low dex fighter should not be able to stick to a 440 speed, medium armor fighter. But thats the way it is right now. So now that I realize the difference In 400 and 440 speed is almost zilch, I'm re-rolling to something better suited for heavier armor.
Ofc he killed u in 4 swings u are using a Bow at melee range
Movement speed need to be the same I agree.. sucks to move slow - but slower attack or stamina use would be fine
as a plate hybrid, would like to see sub 4kg armour get a form of sidestep/dodge, nothing too crazy just something to support rouge like players. Visual impermanent would be great for plate also.
I love visual impairment being the fix. Would put way more thought into helmets.
100% agree, rerolled from a pal to veela archer, and find myself using the same armor I did on my pala. Doesnt seem quite right. Hope they fix it so we get to see more types of armor ingame
Plate armor in the medieval ages was actually designed to match the mobility and speed of ppl who wore light armor or no armor and most importantly, it was designed to allow knights to hop on and off their horses or get up off the ground with ease with as little delay as possible. Plate armor generally weighed 40 to 50lbs but didnt affect a knights speed too much especially since theyre trained and pretty damn strong so a higher stamina drain and slow regen would be a better balance for the game if any nerfing needs to be added. I think a faster stam drain and lower regen would be best balance cuz an archer running out of stam is far more detrimental than a footfighter losing stam cuz we can tank the hits (so non foot fighter builds should lose stam way faster and regen slower than footfighters). That would eliminate archers wanting to wear a full suit of plates and maybe only wear the chest and legs
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40 pounds is still heavier than lighter armor and if two people are equally trained, the laws of physics state that the lighter armor wearer will run faster and be more agile. Just because the height of plate armor design was very efficient doesn't mean there was 0 penalty for wearing it.
@@chazdomingo475 i never said there wasnt penalties, i said with little delay as possible
Edit: however, i think plate armor should reduce the footspeed by at least 8 points but offer 10 more points in defense so that there is an actual difference between dex footfighters with light armor vs heavy armor footfighters. That way they really do have a speed advantage and possibly land more hits but do less dmg while full plate armor should be slower, harder to land hits but hitting the light armor guy harder of course
Hey there, I love your videos. You're just as me new to this game and make exactly the same expieriences than me. I think just the exact way as you do. I'm rerolling right now because fat mages are for nothing at the moment. Every plate wearing Archer, Melee whatever is making heals as high as mine.
I'm brand new fat mage, tell me more about your experiences? What spells were you using, what kind of dmg were you doing, what types of abilities did you train in?
Fyi healing is the same at 10 ecumenical as it is 100, Int and mental offense are the factors.
A speed debuff would ruin PvP fights. The front line would be useless, there would be no way to effectively prevent the enemy from reaching the rear line. I think each piece of heavy armor should reduce weakspot hit chance by 20%, so an archer in full plate would never crit. You can play as a rouge type, trading defense for offense.
I mean full steel armor should either be something you use at a chokepoint or en masse such that you can create a line of defense. Or from horseback.
The idea that people in full plate can run around intercepting people in lighter armors trying to reach the backline is ludicrous. Just because you enjoy your meta doesn't mean it makes sense or should continue.
I didn't agree with most of what was said, till the end. Heavy armor users swinging slower might be an interesting tradeoff. Absolutely can't adjust speed, like you mentioned its the most important stat. Stamina nerf to heavy armor i think would be too rough. Swing speed on weapon... now thats interestng.
You can adjust speed. It just makes heavy armor very limited in use. There's nothing wrong with that. Heavy armor should be limited to something that is for organized battles where you can set up defensive lines. They shouldn't be out chasing down naked players and being solo murder machines.
Historically speaking, people wore the best armor they could afford. Later period plate armor was customized and had very little restrictions on mobility. If they truly want to reflect this in the game, then they need to up the difficulty in making plate armor. Additionally, having it reduce mana regen is a great limiter as well from a fantasy standpoint. One thing I think they could do for helmets though is add in vision restrictions based on the faceplate/visors. That would definitely limit their usage.
i don't wanna see any changes, it's pretty unrealistic how other games make you slower or give disadvantages for plate armor - theres a reason why plate armor was the "meta" in medieval warfare, and the only reason you wouldn't wear it was if you couldn't afford it... it was OP, foot and mounted archers everyone that could afford it had it, speed and mobility was never an issue, theres videos of people running and doing parkour with plate xd so I can see how mages Could be the only ones affected
Yeah this is simply false. People wear the best defense in war because defense is often what matters. It doesn't mean speed and agility is not impaired. Have you ever seen any warfare? Are people just sprinting willy nilly everywhere? Not usually. And the more they're carrying the slower they can do that.
Usually they're stationary, trying to hold a line or waiting for a chance to advance. When they advance, there will generally be order to it and they won't just be sprinting trying to merc one random enemy soldier. So comparing warfare to what happens with plate armor wearers in mortal online is foolish. These people can literally chase down people horseback. It would never happen IRL.
The elite community in this game just wants to be unstoppable juggernauts and it's sad. And it will kill the game in the end.
@@chazdomingo475 do you have the mental capacity of understanding that medieval plate armor weighs LESS than Modern gear that soldiers use to run, sprint, jump, crouch, and do all that probably faster and better than both of us can?? you can literally search "running in plate armor" on YT and educate yourself before going around commenting nonsense.
FROGS