Despite how dumb and illogical this dialogue is, he doesn't break the romance with her at all. Everything ends fine if you go to a good ending. It seems to me that this is another cut-out dialogue that appeared as a result of another bug. What a surprise, there has never been such a thing DD
It just seems... odd for her to react this way. I get that she's pissed that Durge threw away a potential advantage, but isn't her *entire character arc* all about severing herself from the gods and instead relying on herself and those she loves? I understand her wanting more power, but encouraging her lover to become the thrall of the very god that truamatised her and murdered all of her people seems like a strange choice for her. If Minthara reacts this way when you reject Bhaal, it makes it rather strange that she doesn't also break up with the player character if you choose to reject the elder brain at the end of the game. In that situation she says "well, it would have been good to have that power, but I guess we can live without if it means not having parasites in our brains" but here she says that throwing away this advantage is nothing but weakness - even though it's the exact same choice! Either I'm missing something, or Larian have made a big error with how Minthara's arc is supposed to work in the game.
@@Jay-ju8tcthats an ignorant comment right there. perhaps you havent watched the interviews with the VA yet where she talks about the character in depth and her entire arc. i hate when people just toss something out a window and scream “eViL!!!” ok calm down
Your actually neurodivergent… cause I’m not saying that because of my own judgments, I didn’t think of her that way until one of the main people who made the game literally said she’s straight unredeemably evil. Doesn’t matter what the voice actress feels about the character when the person making the story wrote her to be evil. Things she says makes her a hypocrite. But again she is written & imagined by the devs as evil. Do your research
Yeah, that was stupid. This has to be a bug in the game or something. I refuse to believe that Larian would just make her go back on literally everything she's said about the gods up until this point. My guess is it was unused dialog and this was an unintended effect of the patch.
Guys, we "REALLY" need to write in support of Larian to have them remove this dialog, because this dialog makes no sense, it ruins the her entire character arc, ruins absolutely everything she said throughout the game about the gods, that they don't need followers, but only victims, that you need to achieve power by your own strength, not by the strength of the gods, because the price for these powers, will be too expensive, etc. This dialog literally breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress, we need to fix it. Write as I did in support of Larian demanding that they "REMOVE" this dialog.
@amanitasporling6658 Defeat???Defeat to what??? This whole dialog is a mistake.This dialog makes no sense, it ruins the her entire character arc, ruins absolutely everything she said throughout the game about the gods.This dialog literally breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress,this in her dialog:"What was I when you first knew me? Before you ever knew me? A mad woman, butchering prey in the name of a god who would discard me without a thought once I was no longer of use. Bhaal, Lolth… The Absolute. They do not have followers, they only have victims. And they reward devotion, with death. It is only because of you that I did not meet the same fate as Orin. Lost to madness and blood."This "NEW" dialog and the breakup with Minthara breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress how character, need to fix it.Need write as I did in support of Larian demanding that they "REMOVE" this "NEW" dialog.
@@MasterRaven0707 there's 17k different out comes. This just happens to be one of them. ive played 600 hours of this game. Chill TF out bro. It's just a game.
@@amanitasporling6658your comment is very unhelpful, the other person is passionate and so what? They are just enjoying the game. There can be as many outcomes as you can imagine and it still doesn't make this dialogue right. It's true that it goes against mintharas character and it is pretty bad writing tbh, there is nothing wrong with admitting that, also any other outcome has no bearing on this one because it is by itself flawed.
@@mornemauvais5873 it wasn't supposed to be helpful, it was just supposed to be a comment. And awesome enjoy the game, as it should be enjoyed. You got a line that clearly is written and put in there, and this usually pops up if you slaughter the grove, and continue the urge. Just to defy bhaal and what minthara thought Tav agreed on. Least that's how I got it. She's said some pretty fucky things about not being used by Lolth. And always encouraged Durge to take the power. Anyways. Have a goodnight/day.
Ok but hear me out. TL;DR Minthara's reaction makes sense because she's a) terrified of the Absolute, the Grand Design, losing control over herself etc., which we learn shortly after rescuing her. She's also about power a lot, because of her background. So yeah, refusing Bhaal, you're basically risking losing to the Grand Design, which means you're playing with her life, risking her becoming a mindless slave to it. Her fate is potentially in your hands, and you're rejecting an advantage because "you don't wanna". She's right to be pissed here, lol. Also, check the edit below. It really explains everything there is to say, although in context of another companion. ### [EDIT] I just had a dialogue with Minthara (in act 3) that reminded me of this subject. It references the events after the EVIL CHOICE by Shadowheart in act 2. I'll transcribe it here: [My Dark Urge]: Shadowheart may yet turn from Shar. Do you think she should? [Minthara]: I would rather we were all free of the gods, but Shadowheart's connection to Shar may provide her access to the city's Sharran cloister. [Minthara]: If they serve her, they serve us, and we need every possible ally. It's literally the same situation as with Dark Urge. You either get the entire Temple of Bhaal (at least the branch in Baldur's Gate, for the sake of "we're facing a grave threat, like, tomorrow"). Or you reject it, thus reject all the Bhaalist minions you'd otherwise have at your disposal. I rest my case. [END OF EDIT] ### Long version: Minthara is of House Baenre of Menzoberranzan, the most powerful house in that drow city which counts dozens of noble houses. Drow society is all about power, leverage, maintaining position and getting more power and influence, both as houses and within those houses (in the first Drizzt Do'Urden book, a second son of a house matron kills his older brother during a raid, blaming his death on his enemy, just because he wants to be the "first boy of House Do'Urden"). She's used to power plays, as we know she was a general of her house, leading their soldiers against the Absolute, so she would've been EXTREMELY compliant with that power-oriented culture. Minthara is also terrified of becoming a puppet to the Absolute again. Once you rescue her, she asks you to promise that you essentially won't kick her out before defeating the brain, because once out of the artefacts influence, she'd lose herself again. She'd rather die than have it happen. Those two things combined, I think her reaction to you refusing a significant power (having the whole ass cult at your side, combined with the powers Bhaal gives you) makes perfect sense, as it is the most IDIOTIC thing she's ever heard. She sees it as you risking losing to the brain, which will result in it taking control over the world and turning everyone into a mind flayer. For your own effing comfort ("I don't wanna" vibes). So yeah, she's perfectly right to be pissed off and call you weak and storm out, lmao. Now, I have to admit. I've never had her in act 3, I only recently rescued her in act 2 as non-resisting Durge, planning to become the Chosen, and I'm not going to romance her, so I haven't seen whatever character arc she might be going through. I read in the comments that she's apparently about defying gods a lot. Still, I don't think it's ENTIRELY unreasonable for her to react this way, if not because of anything else, then because of her fear of becoming a puppet again. She's similar to Astarion, in that regard. Astarion would rather sell his soul to Raphael, or find a way to kill himself, do anything and everything in his power to NEVER EVER be Cazador's puppet again (same as Minthara with the Absolute). In act 3, before confronting Cazador, he will lash out at you following certain dialogue options. But it needs to be taken into consideration, that his mind is spinning around the "I can't let Cazador have me, not again" and he'll undo his entire character arc just to avoid it. Which can culminate with his ascension, where ALL OF THE softish boy who learned to open himself to you, and trust you, and admired you, and started to see that maybe being kind is not that bad, IS GONE. ENTIRE CHARACTER ARC. That's also how things can work out in real life, unfortunately. Think about addicts who ruined their life, got clean, went years without falling into their old, self-destructive habits, then something happens and they're at the bottom again. And if you think she's overreacting, go look up possible outcomes of the confrontation with Cazador. If you straight up refuse to help Astarion, without persuading him to be (morally) better than Cazador and all that, essentially turning your back on him, he has a very emotional, very deeply loathing you reaction. I believe in one of the outcomes, he can even straight up attack you. So yeah, even if Minthara is like "defy the gods, fuck them", both because of her experience with the Absolute, and possibly the Menzoberranzan society OBSESSED with Lolth and being in her favor, I think she'd still be like "idc you gotta become Bhaal's Chosen and you don't like it, IF YOU DON'T WE RISK LOSING TO THE GRAND DESIGN AND I. WILL. NOT. BECOME THEIR PUPPET AGAIN." and I think it's perfectly in line with her psychology. Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, gonna boot up the game now to hopefully progress my story to act 3 today, and see some of the Minthara story for myself :).
Baffling. This has to be some sort of low-approval bug
What did they do to my Minthy?! LARIAN!!!
This was accidentally reenabled draft content that thankfully got patched out in the latest hotfix.
Despite how dumb and illogical this dialogue is, he doesn't break the romance with her at all. Everything ends fine if you go to a good ending. It seems to me that this is another cut-out dialogue that appeared as a result of another bug. What a surprise, there has never been such a thing DD
This is just an unintended effect of the patch.
This definitely seems like leftover dialogue from an earlier draft that was accidentally reactivated through an update bug.
It just seems... odd for her to react this way. I get that she's pissed that Durge threw away a potential advantage, but isn't her *entire character arc* all about severing herself from the gods and instead relying on herself and those she loves? I understand her wanting more power, but encouraging her lover to become the thrall of the very god that truamatised her and murdered all of her people seems like a strange choice for her.
If Minthara reacts this way when you reject Bhaal, it makes it rather strange that she doesn't also break up with the player character if you choose to reject the elder brain at the end of the game. In that situation she says "well, it would have been good to have that power, but I guess we can live without if it means not having parasites in our brains" but here she says that throwing away this advantage is nothing but weakness - even though it's the exact same choice!
Either I'm missing something, or Larian have made a big error with how Minthara's arc is supposed to work in the game.
No I’m pretty sure her arc is she’s evil & hypocrite… like a major hypocrite way before this scene happens
@@Jay-ju8tcthats an ignorant comment right there. perhaps you havent watched the interviews with the VA yet where she talks about the character in depth and her entire arc. i hate when people just toss something out a window and scream “eViL!!!” ok calm down
Your actually neurodivergent… cause I’m not saying that because of my own judgments, I didn’t think of her that way until one of the main people who made the game literally said she’s straight unredeemably evil. Doesn’t matter what the voice actress feels about the character when the person making the story wrote her to be evil. Things she says makes her a hypocrite. But again she is written & imagined by the devs as evil. Do your research
@@Jay-ju8tcAccusing other people of being neurodivergent just because they disagree with your view about a fictional fantasy story is pretty cringy.
I care so much what you think. I’m totally not smiling at how dumb you saying that to me is. You must also be a “neurodivergent” :)
Yeah, that was stupid. This has to be a bug in the game or something. I refuse to believe that Larian would just make her go back on literally everything she's said about the gods up until this point. My guess is it was unused dialog and this was an unintended effect of the patch.
you have to cast Friends & charm on her SO many times to get her approval this low lol, fun vid
is this really only on low approval?
@@DarthMeteos could be yet another minty bug lol but a split like this usually is
Has this been dealt with? I'm about to start a redeemed Dark Urge run.
Yes. They took it out
I hate this Minthy... fuck did Larian do?
Guys, we "REALLY" need to write in support of Larian to have them remove this dialog, because this dialog makes no sense, it ruins the her entire character arc, ruins absolutely everything she said throughout the game about the gods, that they don't need followers, but only victims, that you need to achieve power by your own strength, not by the strength of the gods, because the price for these powers, will be too expensive, etc. This dialog literally breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress, we need to fix it. Write as I did in support of Larian demanding that they "REMOVE" this dialog.
That would defeat the purpose of having different outcomes.
@amanitasporling6658 Defeat???Defeat to what??? This whole dialog is a mistake.This dialog makes no sense, it ruins the her entire character arc, ruins absolutely everything she said throughout the game about the gods.This dialog literally breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress,this in her dialog:"What was I when you first knew me? Before you ever knew me? A mad woman, butchering prey in the name of a god who would discard me without a thought once I was no longer of use. Bhaal, Lolth… The Absolute. They do not have followers, they only have victims. And they reward devotion, with death. It is only because of you that I did not meet the same fate as Orin. Lost to madness and blood."This "NEW" dialog and the breakup with Minthara breaks "ALL" of Minthara's personal progress how character, need to fix it.Need write as I did in support of Larian demanding that they "REMOVE" this "NEW" dialog.
@@MasterRaven0707 there's 17k different out comes. This just happens to be one of them.
ive played 600 hours of this game. Chill TF out bro. It's just a game.
@@amanitasporling6658your comment is very unhelpful, the other person is passionate and so what? They are just enjoying the game. There can be as many outcomes as you can imagine and it still doesn't make this dialogue right.
It's true that it goes against mintharas character and it is pretty bad writing tbh, there is nothing wrong with admitting that, also any other outcome has no bearing on this one because it is by itself flawed.
@@mornemauvais5873 it wasn't supposed to be helpful, it was just supposed to be a comment.
And awesome enjoy the game, as it should be enjoyed. You got a line that clearly is written and put in there, and this usually pops up if you slaughter the grove, and continue the urge. Just to defy bhaal and what minthara thought Tav agreed on. Least that's how I got it.
She's said some pretty fucky things about not being used by Lolth. And always encouraged Durge to take the power.
Anyways. Have a goodnight/day.
This shit better be fixed in update7. This is some bullshit
Ok but hear me out.
TL;DR Minthara's reaction makes sense because she's a) terrified of the Absolute, the Grand Design, losing control over herself etc., which we learn shortly after rescuing her. She's also about power a lot, because of her background. So yeah, refusing Bhaal, you're basically risking losing to the Grand Design, which means you're playing with her life, risking her becoming a mindless slave to it. Her fate is potentially in your hands, and you're rejecting an advantage because "you don't wanna". She's right to be pissed here, lol.
Also, check the edit below. It really explains everything there is to say, although in context of another companion.
###
[EDIT] I just had a dialogue with Minthara (in act 3) that reminded me of this subject. It references the events after the EVIL CHOICE by Shadowheart in act 2. I'll transcribe it here:
[My Dark Urge]: Shadowheart may yet turn from Shar. Do you think she should?
[Minthara]: I would rather we were all free of the gods, but Shadowheart's connection to Shar may provide her access to the city's Sharran cloister.
[Minthara]: If they serve her, they serve us, and we need every possible ally.
It's literally the same situation as with Dark Urge. You either get the entire Temple of Bhaal (at least the branch in Baldur's Gate, for the sake of "we're facing a grave threat, like, tomorrow"). Or you reject it, thus reject all the Bhaalist minions you'd otherwise have at your disposal.
I rest my case.
[END OF EDIT]
###
Long version:
Minthara is of House Baenre of Menzoberranzan, the most powerful house in that drow city which counts dozens of noble houses. Drow society is all about power, leverage, maintaining position and getting more power and influence, both as houses and within those houses (in the first Drizzt Do'Urden book, a second son of a house matron kills his older brother during a raid, blaming his death on his enemy, just because he wants to be the "first boy of House Do'Urden"). She's used to power plays, as we know she was a general of her house, leading their soldiers against the Absolute, so she would've been EXTREMELY compliant with that power-oriented culture.
Minthara is also terrified of becoming a puppet to the Absolute again. Once you rescue her, she asks you to promise that you essentially won't kick her out before defeating the brain, because once out of the artefacts influence, she'd lose herself again. She'd rather die than have it happen.
Those two things combined, I think her reaction to you refusing a significant power (having the whole ass cult at your side, combined with the powers Bhaal gives you) makes perfect sense, as it is the most IDIOTIC thing she's ever heard. She sees it as you risking losing to the brain, which will result in it taking control over the world and turning everyone into a mind flayer. For your own effing comfort ("I don't wanna" vibes). So yeah, she's perfectly right to be pissed off and call you weak and storm out, lmao.
Now, I have to admit. I've never had her in act 3, I only recently rescued her in act 2 as non-resisting Durge, planning to become the Chosen, and I'm not going to romance her, so I haven't seen whatever character arc she might be going through. I read in the comments that she's apparently about defying gods a lot.
Still, I don't think it's ENTIRELY unreasonable for her to react this way, if not because of anything else, then because of her fear of becoming a puppet again. She's similar to Astarion, in that regard. Astarion would rather sell his soul to Raphael, or find a way to kill himself, do anything and everything in his power to NEVER EVER be Cazador's puppet again (same as Minthara with the Absolute). In act 3, before confronting Cazador, he will lash out at you following certain dialogue options. But it needs to be taken into consideration, that his mind is spinning around the "I can't let Cazador have me, not again" and he'll undo his entire character arc just to avoid it. Which can culminate with his ascension, where ALL OF THE softish boy who learned to open himself to you, and trust you, and admired you, and started to see that maybe being kind is not that bad, IS GONE. ENTIRE CHARACTER ARC.
That's also how things can work out in real life, unfortunately. Think about addicts who ruined their life, got clean, went years without falling into their old, self-destructive habits, then something happens and they're at the bottom again.
And if you think she's overreacting, go look up possible outcomes of the confrontation with Cazador. If you straight up refuse to help Astarion, without persuading him to be (morally) better than Cazador and all that, essentially turning your back on him, he has a very emotional, very deeply loathing you reaction. I believe in one of the outcomes, he can even straight up attack you.
So yeah, even if Minthara is like "defy the gods, fuck them", both because of her experience with the Absolute, and possibly the Menzoberranzan society OBSESSED with Lolth and being in her favor, I think she'd still be like "idc you gotta become Bhaal's Chosen and you don't like it, IF YOU DON'T WE RISK LOSING TO THE GRAND DESIGN AND I. WILL. NOT. BECOME THEIR PUPPET AGAIN." and I think it's perfectly in line with her psychology.
Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, gonna boot up the game now to hopefully progress my story to act 3 today, and see some of the Minthara story for myself :).
So she wants you to be a sl8v so she doesn’t have to fear becoming one by not having power?
WOW