PVC Record Jackets: Are They Safe? - Evidence of "Misting"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- PVC record sleeves are infamous for causing irreparable damage to vinyl records. The internet is awash with evidence that they can cause a mysterious "misting" on the record sleeve under certain conditions.
The theory is that because vinyl records are also made from PVC (an oil-based product), the two items can merge given the wrong climate. The result is a misting effect on the record, which is audible as hiss.
Knowing this, I've had these away from my collection for years, but what I didn't count on was the damage they caused to my stowed-away Vinyl Storage Solutions poly sleeves.
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I've stored a few 78s in thick cardboard sleeves with thick PVC on the outside. They really have quite a strong oily smell, but never used them for LPs or vinyl due to the stickiness and lack of ease of sliding them out over each other. Polypropylene is where it's at - and they glide over each other smoothly when you pull records out!
I’ve had one white label release misted by plasticizers off-gassing from its original pvc sleeeve, it had a simple A4 paper printed in black and white inside with trackliting and basic info, interesting is that one side of the record is greyish as a whole, while the other side has some blurry text and logo marks on it, on that side of the record it affected parts covered by unprinted clean paper but printed parts actually protected it. ;-) I also bought a few records already damaged this way, PVC sleeves were also popoular not only for picture discs but when there was just a sheet of paper printed and record was behind it, the sleeve served as an inner and outer sleeve, I bought two copies of an album from two sellers and each of them have one side affected by mist, fortunately, one had already been played and record had been flipped in the sleeve by a previous owner, so it was the other side that was afected as opposed to my other copy. So it seems that a printed artwork works as a solid buffer to protect the record. I know there are some people who got their records damaged even through a proper outer sleeve which is even a stiffer piece of paper, but it took much longer, like decades to get damaged, there are also a bad storie where the outer sleeve actually damaged the printed artwork, it got stuck to it and when they tried to peel it off, you know. ;-( I myself get rid of those sleeves too, but if it is the original sleeve since release (sometimes there are hype stickers etc., so there is a reason not to throw it away), I put the record and the artwork if there is any in a PE sleeve and then put it back to that PVC one, a PE sleeve should protect the record and the artwork from off-gassing of the plasticizers, as far as I know.
Interesting. Yea, I’d agree it’s much more likely if the record is in direct contact. Thanks for the contribution to the topic and for watching. 🎶🎧
Mark, you're partly right - but only partly (or under certain circumstances).
PVC-sleeves CAN cause serious problems under certain conditions due to what is knows as "de-gassing". Especially if they are kept/stored at higher temperatures than "room temperature" (which records never should anyway). Andrew at his Parlogram YT-channel has made a video about this also.
BUT if you keep your records in poly-lined inner sleeves (which you always should to avoid dust, "scuffs" etc.) , you are perfectly safe using PVC outer sleeves: The degassing / evaporation is blocked by the poly-lining and won't get to the record.
In my 3000+ record collection, I've used PVC outer sleeves and poly-lined inner sleeves since I bought my first record in 1972.
That's 52 years without any - ANY - damage to the records inside. Only issue has been a few outer sleeves (about 1-2 %) that became "wavy" and was replaced.
The reason I continue to buy and use PVC outer sleeves (apart from NOT damaging the records) is that I like to store the record where it's supposed to be stored: INSIDE the cover and still be able to get them in/out of the shelf without having the outer sleeve to "curl up" because it's not sturdy enough.
People using the thin (non-PVC) outer sleeves - and that seems to be almost everybody on YT - have the opening upside, so the sleeves doesn't curl up (but the dust can get down) and they place the record outside the cover (thus making the back invisible).
My choice is different and has not damaged one single record for +50 years, which to me is proof enough that PVC outer sleeves can be used perfectly safe.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, you’re right that it would have to be a high er temperature. These sleeves were stored in our third bedroom on the top floor which probably does get much warmer than my record room. And that’s probably what caused it. Also, I suspect this happens when stored in a loft/attic area.
I’ll bet most of the people buying from HMV around bothering with poly inner sleeves consistently though - more casual collectors.
Everyone has their own preference on sleeves, for sure. If it works for you, great. Purely from a personal taste thing, I prefer how poly outer sleeves feel.
Thanks again for your additions on the topic. Happy listening 🎶🎧
I did a trade once and purchased some rare LP records that were stored in thick Pvg plastic in a basement the moisture set in and ruined the jackets.
be careful
Oh no! That’s a shame. Yep: some risk with these sleeves for sure
I’ve been collecting records since 1969 and have mostly used PVC covers. I’ve never had any problems with them affecting my lps all this time.
I don't think it's an inevitability, but there is a risk. The dreaded "vinyl cancer" phenomenon which people pinpoint the blame at PVC sleeves. Depends on the storage conditions I suppose, and a degree of luck. Personally, I'd swap them for polypropylene-based sleeves, but each to their own as always.
The PVC hard inner that came with Bowie's BLACKSTAR caused a sludge to appear on my disc after a year. The disc got a wet clean and the hard sleeve removed.
Always using nagaoka no.102 and jc30lp outer sleeves, seems fine!
I wonder how much those sleeves changed over the years. My dad had The Number Of The Beast as a picture disc. And for years it sat in that clear sleeve for years. It still sounded fine in the late 80s. Unless that was a 1 off fluke. But I have seen so many of those Back To Back 45's that record store day puts out. Our local store always overstocked on stuff. So when these 45's were knocked down to maybe $6.95 almost a year later. The clear sleeve pretty much stucked to the record. You can hear it peel apart as you get the record out. And sure enough, there is that "fog" on it. And its not just records. DVD cases seem to do the same thing. Picked up a new copy of Going Berserk and sure enough. Sealed in off-gassing just destroys the disc. Somehow it played all the way through.
Stupid plastic.
Yea, I really don’t like how PVC sticks to things like that
I was a victim, but i changed them immediately...Thankfully no sleeves were damaged but most of my Connie Francis US 45's were damaged and i'm slowly replacing them. Fortunately they were not mint...Also a few of my albums from the UK were also damaged from the 1970's on her. i just chucked the vinyl in the recycle bin and kept the sleeves. Greetings from Greece.
Sorry to hear that Roger. Out of interest, where/how were the conditions they were stored in that caused the de-gassing?
@@soundmatters i lived on the sea front and we had hot summers...i had them in wooden draw's .I was wondering whether if you could wash them with soap and then dry them and then use them, would they still do it.
I have a bunch of VSS sleeves that are no longer crystal clear and have visible ring wear from pulling records from shelf. Those issues along with the overly tight/overly loose fit depending on the LP led me away from their sleeves. I’ll be interested to see if the tight fit with the dual pocket system will lead with complaints of warping as time passes. Maybe not, but it was definitely a concern to me.
Cheers Mark - good video. I’ve had a similar problem with records where the inner sleeve is a poster. It has left a bit of a shadow on the record surface and while the record is still playable, it has created surface noise. Like your cabinet btw - it looks very similar to mine. Is it from Lagom Studio?
Thanks Andy. Ah, that's a shame - it's a tricky one with posters, isn't it, as you don't want them to get lost outside the sleeve, but at the same time, I guess there is some risk in storing them that way. Thanks on the cabinet: yea, it's a Lagom Studio model. They're great, aren't they! I did end up swapping the legs for hairpin versions, as I found the standard kind had a tendency to rock when placed on a carpet (a bit of an issue when you've got a turntable on top!)
@@soundmatters Yes they are great - the cabinets are very well made and their customer service is excellent. I got a third leg put on mine in the middle and it rocked at first but has since bedded down and is fine.
Hi, I own a record that has light misting on its surface, visible under big scrutiny, possibly due to it having been stored in a PVC sleeve (it’s distorted) for a long time before I purchased it. Could playing the record damage my stylus at all?
I would appreciate your reply!
P.S. I sent you an enquiry via your website, but just to be sure I am making a comment here. I hope that is not disturbing you.
Are these PVC sleeves just for the records or are they making them for the record covers also?
I was under the impression that the PVC sleeves were tougher but from what I can see in your video they look just like the poly sleeves. How do you tell the difference?
I ask these questions because I had a few outer record cover sleeves that seemed to get some kind of film on them over a period of about a year. I couldn't figure out what caused it. These were not the inner sleeves for the actual records and I haven't had any problems with the inner sleeves I use. I replaced the cloudy looking sleeves for the covers that I mentioned but now I'm wondering if I may have some that are PVC and I just don't know it? I don't see very well but I've purposely stayed away from anything that mentions PVC when buying inner and outer sleeves. But I know that doesn't necessarily mean I may not have got some. One of the other things I noticed on those cloudy ones I mentioned is that they seemed a little sticky also. I still don't know what happened with those outer cover sleeves but I have replaced them and I don't think any permanent damage was done.
If you don't have any documentation stating what you are using, what is the best way to know whether you're using some PVC sleeves by accident or not? Thanks for any helpful advice.
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
Hey Brian! It’s hard for me to explain over a comment, but PVC outer jackets usually have a very distinctive feel to them, and they’re usually much thicker than any poly sleeves. I know that probably doesn’t categorically clear it up for you, but generally, PVC is much thicker and actually has quite a strong plastic smell about it. If they feel almost rubbery, then they’re probably PVC. The stickiness you mentioned too could be a sign of PVC. If you fold the outer sleeve in half and it sticks to itself a little, that’s another typical trait of PVC. Does that help at least a little?
@@soundmatters Yes, thank you for the information on ways to possibly identify if they are PVC. I'll give those methods a try and see what I come up with. I'm about to do a complete reorganization of my collection and I can check each protective sleeve as I'm going through in organizing my albums. Thanks for the reply back and hopefully I'll not wind up having any PVC in my collection. I do remember one album I got a year or two ago that I'm pretty sure came with a PVC record sleeve. It was very noticeably different and tougher. While I wasn't 100% sure at the time it was PVC, I still changed it out and used one of my own inner sleeves for the record just to be safe instead of sorry. I do remember it being noticeably different and it sounds like the PVC types should be pretty easy to identify. Thanks again!
I keep all my records in MoFi inner and outer sleeves. I have a few of them that came in a PVC outer sleeve where I cut out the hype sticker and placed it inside the MoFi outer. Is this bad? It's just the hype sticker on some PVC where it was originally on the PVC outer. That bit of PVC is now inside the MoFi outer sleeve, with the hype sticker still attached. Is this going to damage my record jacket or records or even outer sleeves?
Pro tip: Your records will last much longer if you never play them.😉
😂 🤪
Sorry I am now confused... In your video, you seem to have used the terms sleeves and jackets interchangeably. That's fine, but what is not clear in your video is if you are referring to the plastic jackets that cover the cardboard record jacket + album, or the inner sleeve used for the vinyl itself, which is often placed outside the cardboard but inside the plastic jacket. And if the plastic jacket is PVC and is in contact with the non-PVC sleeve holding the vinyl album, what then? Please clarify. Thanks.
Sorry for any confusion. When I say "jacket" I mean outer sleeve. If I'm talking about inner sleeves, I tend to explicitly call them "inner sleeves".
There are cases I've seen of people storing records in the PVC outer-sleeves, and still, the internal vinyl gets contaminated. Rare, maybe, but there is some risk.
@@soundmatters Thanks for the clarification. I have recently acquired a large collection of albums, many of which are in outer plastic jackets of unknown material. The inner sleeves are MoFi anti-static. I was thinking of replacing the outer sleeves because they all a have slight moldy smell -- as do the cardboard jackets. Not sure what to do about the (invisible but smelly) moldy cardboard, but what outer sleeves would you recommend?
@@StuartHorowitz-sn4hg - No worries! if they feel very thick and smell strongly of plastic, they might be PVC (the outer sleeves). If you are very careful, you can wipe laminated record sleeves with baby wipes to clean off a lot of unwanted grub (don't try that with anything matt and full-paper though, for obvious reasons). Is it a mold smell, or just a musky dust smell, do you think?
I think the best outer sleeves are the Vinyl Storage Solutions ones. I've linked them in the description. You can get 10% off with my code. The Mofi inner and outer sleeves are also ok, but the VSS ones are better designed and with more options for different sizes and gatefold styles.
How can you tell which sleeves are which if they are already on the records?
PVC sleeves have a very distinctive feel (and even smell) to them. They're also very thick compared with polypropylene or polyethylene sleeves.
@@soundmatters I've been using Mobile Fidelity sleeves. They don't have a scent, but feel kinda thick. Are these PVC?
You don't want to have a radiator behind your records you're going to be asking for trouble not a good place to put them!!!
why you say polypropylene is better I don't agree I think polyethylene is better it's less static than polypropylene what's the benefit of polypropylene?
The radiator isn't as close as it looks on the camera. And to tell you the truth, I hardly use that radiator - we run a log burner through the winter. The Vinyl Storage Solutions outer sleeves are cast polypropylene and have a lovely clarity to them. Polyethylene is great for anti-static inner sleeves.