Well done and thank you for sharing this vital info! As someone who works professionally in the cultural conservation field, I can say you are 100% spot on with this ! PVC is nasty under any and all conditions.
I have to disagree. I have been using PVC sleeves for over 40 years and have never encountered any problems. I have stored everything from flimsy 12" singles to heavy cut LPs in thick card sleeve. All in PVC and all still in the same shape and condition as the day l bought them.
I’m very glad you have been fortunate, but disagree or not, it’s a fact of chemistry. PVC is always a bad storage option; especially and relentlessly as time passes and most especially in less than ideal RH and temperature conditions or where they fluctuate. Also, what you may not yet be seeing with the naked eye, is how the volatile chemical off gassing is and has been slowly and silently compromising the paper fibres, dyes and inks of the album jackets. It’s accelerating acidic decay and yellowing. Sadly the damage is irreversible. This is happening even if the plastic itself appears sound.
@@vicbertfartingclack4559 As stated in the video the chemical reaction begins at 60 degrees Celsius. The only place in my house which reaches that temperature is my oven.
That temperature spec is incorrect actually and kinda ludicrous. Try 25C or above. Plus it’s not just temperature it’s also and even more so, relative humidity, with anything above 60-65% RH that you also have to worry about. Going back to temperature, anything above 60C (or 140F) is certainly where the plastic would rapidly become a gooey mess, but you’d already be dead from heat exhaustion. PVC off gassing is happening at lower temperatures too, but at a slower rate, I promise you that. Don’t believe me all you like - but now I just don’t care.
@@shack7631 That you happen to live in a more moderate climate doesn't change the potential danger that PVC presents to vinyl. Thing is, PVC is basically the same chemical compound as the vinyl record itself. So the plasticizers' (additions that soften the PVC sleeve) outgassing reacts with the vinyl in the very same way as with the sleeve itself, softening its surface and etching itself permanently into it.
For those of us in North America, I recommend Vinyl Storage Solutions for your inner and outer sleeves. VSS has rice paper (or “Mofi”) sleeves in 2 and 3 mil thickness for your 12”, as well as 2 mil for 7”, 10”, and CDs. They also have beautiful polypropylene outer sleeves in different varieties, depending on what you like - single flap, dual flap, no flap, dual pocket (your jacket goes in one, record in the other), 12.25” for those slightly-larger Analogue Productions albums. Plus Mike, the owner, is the nicest guy. (I’m not the same Mike).
@@gotham61 they don’t have all the same, VSS has more options. Sleeve city is also out of stock way too frequently. That said. I check them out first, and their products are of the same quality.
@@gotham61 yea, my first choice is sleeve city. Shipping is cheaper in the U.S. and a little faster. But they’re so often out of stock that I’m left with no choice. VSS would be first choice for me if they weren’t in Canada.
Only found your channel last week and kind of hooked to it now, spotted this one today and thought I would check it out, having recently had all my vinyl professionally cleaned (actually picking up the last batch of 30 on Tuesday this week) I decided to dump all my PVC covers and swap to 'Spincare Density' ones which were recommended to me, after watching this I am so pleased I did. Going back at least 30 years, I remember I had a PVC outer cover bubble and actually stick to the album outer sleeve, cannot remember what it was but it went in the bin.
I have been using PVC sleeves for over 40 years and never had any problem with them. Having said that the flight cases which I store my vinyl in have always been stored in the coolest part of the room and away from direct sunlight.
Ditto, in my rec room where the temperature is always between 15 to 23 C. And there is no mold, as it's sealed, central AC and heat, and a bedroom in there. 20 years and not a problem. Yes, I prefer what he says, and if he's buying, sure.
Likewise, been collecting for nearly 45 years and used these covers. Never had a problem ever. Yes some of the older covers get brittle and yellow, but this is normally after 30 years. Some of my most prised albums that remain in mint condition have been preserved, no creased spines etc. They have been stored at room temperature all that time.
i'm glad i found this video, my record store boss gives me a couple of his VRP-type sleeves for free in case i have a PVC sleeve, and i'm very thankful to know i now have very safe sleeves
I have been using resealable protective covers for many years now. Never had a single issue . First of all , the first time i remove the seal when the sleeve is inside the cover , then than for the second ,third ,fourth and millionth time i put my hand between the sleeve and the plastic cover . Have over 8000 albums , and never had one issue .Play vinyl records regularly . but still your videos are very interesting . keep them coming
Great video Andrew, yes it's interesting that years ago we never really thought about this high level protection of covers, we just were very careful about handling them. Many thanks mate !
What a useful video, Andrew! I now know to correctly protect my vinyl records. I lalso earned some new terms such as off gassing and plasticisers! Back in the 70s I used to buy the pvc covers as they were readily available from shops here in the UK such as Boots and WH Smith but thankfully , we now live in more enlightened times where these new -and better -inner and outer sleeves do the job much more effectively and safely!
Hi Andrew. Thanks for all the interesting & informative videos. The damage you see on records stored in PVC isn’t caused by off-gassing, it’s actually caused by impurities of a vinyl pressing reacting to heat. The cloudy / mottled damage you see isn’t caused by chemical vapour on the vinyl surface. The damage is actually within the vinyl & not on the surface. Any PVC chemical vapours / off gassing will be sticky on the sleeves & should be easy to remove with lighter fluid or isopropyl alcohol. EMI pressings before 1962 won’t ever have this damage (no matter how long they’ve been stored in PVC) as the vinyl they used then didn’t use ‘fill ins’. ‘Fill ins’ were used to get more out of raw vinyl stock by mixing in quantities of other materials with the vinyl (often old stock shellac 78’s)
This is one of those revelations that rocks your world as a vinyl collector. Although this refers mostly to past collectors who used these PVC covers, the modern problem seems to me to be that picture discs are still being sold with seemingly PVC covers. I even have a clear vinyl that was also sold with one. Now I put everything in polyethylene anti-static inners and polyethylene outers but I’m just discovering that PVC and polyethylene can interact in a similar way here. The polyethylene inners I’ve used have this weird puckering on them now and they seem thinner/weaker some how. I was switching them out for ones which don’t have a white reinforcement so that the back of the disc can also be seen but discovered the inners don’t seem to be fairing well. Seemingly the PVC is destroying the UV stabilisers and degrading the polyethylene. This is extremely frustrating because you usually want to keep the cover supplied with the picture disc. Especially when it has hype or main label stickers. What are we supposed to do? Just throw away all PVC we encounter? Why is the industry still shipping these!?!
In the 60s when I started collecting a nice older gentleman (jazz collector) showed me how to open an lp and try to keep the shrink in tact...there were no protective sleeves that I knew of..that was in the70s when college kids were getting protective sleeves from....Japan..awes job!! Love this channel. Andrew the man!!!
For sellers...I recommend you to change the inner sleeves of your used records when selling. There is nothing more reasuring than buying a used record with fresh inner sleeves and the old ones still attached if important. It's a small gesture but I guarantee the customers will appreciate
I just sent this to a radio dj and some other friends on Facebook, who may or may not own and listen to music on vinyl. I wish I knew all this stuff back in the 70s and 80s. Follow up, my radio friend is going to post this on his website tomorrow, as he loves this video and has done episodes of his music documentary show on vinyl and how we listen to music, from time to time.
Hello Andrew, Thanks again for warning against those PVC sleeves. They are the pest, really, and can also damage neighboring records. My own recommendations: - Katta also does 12" rounded sleeves that are perfect to insert into original inner sleeves (printed/cardboard ones). - For other cases, I love black polylined inner sleeves with cut corners by Mari-Medienverpackungen. Available both on Amazon and their own site (cheaper). - Mari also does CPP outer sleeves (without flap) which are great for their overall haptic and transparent feel to them. Also, cheaper to get from their own site. - PE sleeves I try to avoid, as they get milky and unpleasant to the touch over time.
Excellent video! I totally agree but I must mention this remarkable fact. My collection was stored in an attic, so rather warm during the summer. Indeed, most of my records were stored inside PVC protective outer sleeves but only those records that were not in poly lined inners were affected by escaping plasticisers. Those records that were inside poly (or other material other than paper) lined inners survived perfectly well. Having said this, I do store them as described in this video. Greetings, Willem, Hekelingen, Holland.
I've been using outer and inner sleeves from Vinyl Storage Solutions for the past 4 years. All my records are now protected with their products. I'm in Canada and Vinyl Storage Solutions is based in Canada but also I know the gentleman from "45 RPM Audiophile" recommends them and he is based in Europe.
Once again, a stellar job, Andrew. How about following this up with the best tips to preserve CDs, DVDs, tapes of every stripe and paper goods( Magazines and all the rest)? Many music fans cherish these every bit as much as their vinyl!
I always use the lined paper sleeves. They are kind to the records and sturdy outside so they don't crumple going in and out of the covers. For the outer, I use the HDPE sleeves. I don't like the fold over flaps. I also use the Seamzeazy repair strips. Thanks for sharing your preferred options.
I recently bought one of Paul McCartney's 'Fireman' LPs. The cardboard that contains the records looks to be enclosed in what I have to assume is a PVC cover. I removed the records from the PVC cover and set it close by the original LPs so as not to lose it, and to keep it as original as possible. They are enclosed with many other records inside of a clear plastic container that can be found at any Walmart store.
My Blind Faith copy by Simply Vinyl also came on a PVC cover. Luckly you made the PVC video right after I purchased it. Also, big thanks for today's video! Very valuable information!
I always use the mofi inner and outer sleeves, the look great and do a good job protecting the vinyl. Another good thing I learned was to keep the record in it's inner sleeve on the OUTSIDE of the outer Sleeve.. It helps keep ring wear down.
Good and informative video - thanks. Also nice to get the discount code 🙂 I think you're right in pointing out that heat - more than anything else - is what makes PVC outer sleeves problematic. I've had my records stored in PVC outers since the beginning of the 1970'es without any problems or damage to neither the jackets nor the records (which always are put in a poly lined inner sleeve). Therefore *) I continue to buy and use them - also because they are stiff enough to be mounted w. the opening on the same side as the jacket's opening - and can be put in between the others records in this way/direction. If you use the much thinner and flexible CPP outers, you need to have the opening upside (to be able to put them in between other records) and thus either place the record outside the jacket or - if placed inside the jacket - take the jacket/record out of the CPP outer sleeve. I find both ways inconvenient - and believe the record is best protected inside the jacket (in a poly lined inner). *) I live in Denmark which is not a very hot place and my records are in my studio/listening room in the basement of the house where temperatures are stabil and newer over 24 C.
oh my god i got a good scare when I found out pvc were damaging to vinyls, I immediately went to go check on mine and watched your video. I only have japanese vinyls and thank the lord that they know how to protect their shit because most of them came in the higher quality sleeves that you mentioned were safer.
After dismayingly discovering PVC damage to some LPs and many 45s I changed to (inert) Polyethylene bags. A pointer about where the opening should be - dust and other small things fall down, and unless kept in a closed cupboard having the opening at the top also invites trouble. Doesn't looks as nice, but having the opening on the spine side offers the best protection; again a lesson learnt from experience.
Thank you. This was really interesting. I once bought a couple of records off of ebay that had those dreaded PVC sleeves, fortunately they looked a bit despicable and threw them away immediately. The records did not look affected.
In some cases, albums come in those PVC fold-over sleeves! The three I have are the original pressings of "Clear Spot" by Captain Beefheart, the original British pic-disc version of, "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" by Frankie Goes To Hollywood and the live Devo 12" (3 songs per side). I also have a few 10 albums or shaped singles with those, too. In all 3 12" cases, I've added inner sleeves to them so they aren't touching the PVC covers made for them. The pic-disc was my first copy of Sgt. Pepper, too! I bought it at the Sandusky Mall in Sept. `78 while I was there working at Cedar Point, that summer. I had two weeks off at the end of Sept., because the last two weeks, they were only open on weekends so, I went back home (about 4 hours east of there) and played that copy and it not only sounded horrible, it skipped all over the place! So, when I went back for the next weekend shift, I returned it! It wasn't worth the $20 I paid for it! I don't know if I'd trust Discwasher stuff anymore. I bought a brand new British re-issue of "Abbey Road" about 20 years ago and, as usual, used D3 to dust the record before playing it. I noticed it had a blue tint to it!! While playing it, I STILL heard pops & clicks from what I thought was dust so, I hit it with D3 again. This time, it sounded worse! So, I did it a third time and the needle wouldn't even track the grooves well!! Turns out, the D3 was actually CLOGGING the grooves!! (I only used 2 or 3 drops on the preener, each time!) Looking at the needle, I noticed a huge glob of that stuff surrounding it from the record, thus making it skate across the record!! I never used that stuff again and, to this day, still haven't been able to play that record because I haven't been able to get that shit out of the grooves!! My original that I bought in the late `60's sounded way better and it was slightly beat up!!
For real. Just don't leave records in a car or an attic during the warmer months.... End of story. This guy is taking an extreme rare case and acting like it's common to just have records out at 140.
The PVC outer sleeves I personally haven’t come across here in Wisconsin. I have however received records from overseas in these sleeves (this was before I saw the first PVC themed video). I was impressed by their thickness and durability, and , used a couple for double Lp sets. After seeing that video, I purged them immediately. (THANK YOU)! Unfortunately it seems picture discs released in the 80’s (unauthorized interview discs, mostly found in the bargain bins) used PVC exclusively. Luckily I haven’t had issues with those covers gassing up. And seeing and being introduced those KATA 45 sleeves, I’m going to seek them out for my 45’s and Ep’s and use exclusively. As always, thank you for the valuable tips.
I watched the first video you made on this topic first, then this. I certainly hope you discover a method solution for clouding. Since it is a phenomenon that occurs over time, it may take a method that solves it over time as well. I'm no chemical engineer, but there must be someone out there who could find away to get make the stains vanish with no further harm to the vinyl. I guess it makes sense for collectors to do a rotational examination of their inventory. You forget how long 50 years is for something to just sit on a shelf. I had a friend who was 78s collector. You want to talk about damage. He dreaded moving, because he knew there were going to be casualties to his collection-and no small amount. Those 78s are brittle to begin with, but add 80-90 years, and they are like clay toothpicks. Preserving the past is important and I applaud your efforts in the battle against time and tide.
Great informative video Andrew I wish I had seen this before I opted for a solution to my collection I am happy to see that the inner sleeves I picked albeit not Mofi are rice paper from bags unlimited. The outer sleeve has a resealable flap and I am just as careful as I am when I play records so luckily so far the glue has not torn any outer jacket 😊 I will check out some of the new items Much appreciated
I just bought a complete set of The Thing That Solomon Overlooked by Boris. 3 orange vinyls, one yellow. Super rare and all in PVC jackets original to the release and an integral part of the packaging. Sadly all the vinyl has the off gassing damage, a sort of opaque film covering the vinyl surface. However the records do play very well except for some surface noise during the few quieter passages.
That was very helpful indeed I am learning not only how to store my vinyl and better inner sleeves and album covers but I learned that you should always clean your albums I might have to figure out how to clean 78 carefully since they are made out of shellac.
Great info Andrew!! I’ve used so many of those products over the years and like most everyone, you live and learn!😅 I have some CDs particularly video CDs that seem to have developed illnesses over the years. I wonder if you could add an episode some time in the future about that? I’ll send a pic to ya soon. Thanks again for the informative and fun episode! Cheers!
I had damage to practically all my US Connie Francis 45's due to the PVC outers. Fortunately i am replacing them and some of my UK 1970's LP 's were also damaged. Im lucky to say the least, no damages to the sleeves ,just the records. I also have those Bear family 5cd boxes 1990's [i don't know what outer covers to get?]. I'm pleased to see that there are polyetheline dble gatefold sleeves too for my Japanese CF releases from the 1970's-1990's.I throwed my PVC stuff away to the recycling bin .Now if somebody washed the 'perfume' smell of those PVC sleeves would that help or is it the PVC plastic that does the damage.?
Hi mr Andrew, I have a question, I am 13 years old and I want to start collecting Beatles vinyls and CDs, what do you recommend I collect CDs or vinyls first, and which album should I buy first in those formats?
Andrew, you have hit the nail on the head for me. Resealable outer sleeves are such a mess. Too many record stores here in the US are transitioning to the outer sleeves with the resealable strip. Its quite a nerve wracking dance trying to get the LP out of the sleeve to examine what I might be buying fearing the whole time that I might damage either the LP or part of the record sleeve.
Great review of plastics! Polythene (as in Polythene Pam, thank you very much Mr. John Lennon) is safe! Great (guys at my used record store are ALL over this stuff-and I trust them implicitly). However.... they don't carry covers for 45s. So I bought Polypropylene covers with a fold-over top on Amazon. Nifty. For those 45s that had yellowed-out acid paper covers (some disintegrating into dust and paper fibres), I just put them in the PP pouch 'naked'. Look great. I'm totally satisfied that the grooves are protected. However, you raised the key question: is polypropylene safe? Will it off-gas? Is heat a problem? Found this on line: Is polypropylene a safe material? Plastics #5 Polypropylene (PP) is considered to be the safest of all plastics, this is a robust plastic that is heat resistant. Because of its high heat tolerance, Polypropylene is unlikely to leach even when exposed to warm or hot water. This plastic is approved for use with food and beverage storage. Dec 1, 2008 [retrieved Nov 2022] So... for now... I'm sticking with Polythene and PP.
Hey @Parlogram, as you often talk about the best sounding beatles records, I wonder if you could make a video about what record players to use / which records player you have in order to get the best out of the records. Now, obviously it also comes to a good receiver and speakers, but still it would be very interesting to get some tips from you! Best regards from Germany!
It’s so sad how us in the U.S never really got poly-lined inners. It’s still not really expected for most albums. I’d say, most albums I get are pretty thick card. I, of course use poly lined inners.
Are you sure about the temperature at which the plastisizers are released? Unless you live in the desert 140F is a very high temperature. Some of my collectible records have been damaged by the PVC sleeves at much lower temperatures. All of the vinyls in my Pixies Minotaur box set are irreparably damaged by the horrible PVC coated inner sleeves. 😢
Although the MoFi style inners offer the best protection for removing records in and out of the sleeve, I had a friend who had many, but not all of his records stored in them. Unfortunately there was a fire that was in another part of his home. The heat caused all of the plastic inners to melt into the grooves of the records which essentially destroyed them. The records in the paper inners all survived with minor heat damage and light warping with the paper inners only getting extremely brittle and slightly yellowed. Just something on the extreme to consider in your storage options.
That thing you explained about the outer sleeves with adhesive happenned to me. Luckily it was just a normal paper inner sleeve which was affected. Great informative video btw!
Hi Andrew, thanks for another great video. You mentioned it can affect CD's as well. What about the inlay sleeves of the 2009 Mono CD box and the The US Albums CD boxset? Are these sleeves damaging as well? Do you have any idea? Thanks in advance.
Hopefully by tomorrow I would have got rid of those EVIL :D PVC covers(just waiting for the Amazon man to bring me more newer covers today) They are the 'High-Density Polypropylene' covers & I think they will be ok er I think 🤔 + I was thinking of not putting my records in any extra outer covers but then dust might get into them. Excellent video 👍;)
So maybe something has changed since this video was uploaded but I don’t see any links to the actual products used in this video, only a link to protected which just takes me to their home page. Hopefully it does it exists and I’m just missing it but I’d really like to get a hold of the individual product links if possible.
since you mentioned CDs: I recently discovered after moving that the booklets of some of my CDs are made useless and all of their pages are sticking like they are glued together. No idea what happened and only theory is, it must've been some kind of heat exposure in the past. 🤔🤔 In terms of PVC jackets: I heard about that problem a while ago, but what dangers exist, when you still store the vinyl in proper inner sleeves? Are they losing their protection, when the gas is leaking out?
vinyl sleeves are very common to come with picture discs and the like, and it seems to me will stick DIRECTLY to the vinyl surface even more quickly when left directly in contact as they have often been sold, obviously to show off the artwork.....P
Very interesting video. I still need to replace quite a few innersleeves. Btw I store most of my cds (thousands) in polytheen sleeves as well. Is there any risk in that way of cd storage? That would be my worst fear. Maybe that might be a new video topic…
Very good explainer. If you know anything about the so-called “tea-staining” that happens to certain picture discs, I’d love to see an in-depth video on what causes it and how to avoid it. A title which is particularly prone to this is the shaped picture disc for Prince’s “Paisley Park” single. (A quick scroll on google images will show the issue clearly). There are almost no unaffected copies left!
Do you know if PVC off gassing also effects CDs? I’ve got a bunch of CDs in cardboard cases (imitating a vinyl sleeve) that I have stored in CD sized PVC covers. 😬😬😬
Hello Andrew, great topic! I've been happy with the Mofi sleeves for years now, but static seems inescapable no matter what I do. How is the sound quality of your Sgt. Pepper picture disc? The new 'Revolver' picture disc sounds quite good. Thank you.
Well done and thank you for sharing this vital info! As someone who works professionally in the cultural conservation field, I can say you are 100% spot on with this ! PVC is nasty under any and all conditions.
I have to disagree. I have been using PVC sleeves for over 40 years and have never encountered any problems. I have stored everything from flimsy 12" singles to heavy cut LPs in thick card sleeve. All in PVC and all still in the same shape and condition as the day l bought them.
I’m very glad you have been fortunate, but disagree or not, it’s a fact of chemistry. PVC is always a bad storage option; especially and relentlessly as time passes and most especially in less than ideal RH and temperature conditions or where they fluctuate. Also, what you may not yet be seeing with the naked eye, is how the volatile chemical off gassing is and has been slowly and silently compromising the paper fibres, dyes and inks of the album jackets. It’s accelerating acidic decay and yellowing. Sadly the damage is irreversible. This is happening even if the plastic itself appears sound.
@@vicbertfartingclack4559 As stated in the video the chemical reaction begins at 60 degrees Celsius. The only place in my house which reaches that temperature is my oven.
That temperature spec is incorrect actually and kinda ludicrous. Try 25C or above. Plus it’s not just temperature it’s also and even more so, relative humidity, with anything above 60-65% RH that you also have to worry about. Going back to temperature, anything above 60C (or 140F) is certainly where the plastic would rapidly become a gooey mess, but you’d already be dead from heat exhaustion. PVC off gassing is happening at lower temperatures too, but at a slower rate, I promise you that. Don’t believe me all you like - but now I just don’t care.
@@shack7631 That you happen to live in a more moderate climate doesn't change the potential danger that PVC presents to vinyl.
Thing is, PVC is basically the same chemical compound as the vinyl record itself. So the plasticizers' (additions that soften the PVC sleeve) outgassing reacts with the vinyl in the very same way as with the sleeve itself, softening its surface and etching itself permanently into it.
Just discovered this video, and the next day dumped all my "protective" PVC. We live and learn.
For those of us in North America, I recommend Vinyl Storage Solutions for your inner and outer sleeves. VSS has rice paper (or “Mofi”) sleeves in 2 and 3 mil thickness for your 12”, as well as 2 mil for 7”, 10”, and CDs. They also have beautiful polypropylene outer sleeves in different varieties, depending on what you like - single flap, dual flap, no flap, dual pocket (your jacket goes in one, record in the other), 12.25” for those slightly-larger Analogue Productions albums. Plus Mike, the owner, is the nicest guy. (I’m not the same Mike).
I love vinyl storage solutions. They are just great. Got a new shippment on the way.
VSS are the best!
@@gotham61 they don’t have all the same, VSS has more options. Sleeve city is also out of stock way too frequently. That said. I check them out first, and their products are of the same quality.
@@gotham61 yea, my first choice is sleeve city. Shipping is cheaper in the U.S. and a little faster. But they’re so often out of stock that I’m left with no choice. VSS would be first choice for me if they weren’t in Canada.
@@gotham61 and I don’t know specifics, but VSS sources their materials and manufactures in only U.S. and Canada.
Only found your channel last week and kind of hooked to it now, spotted this one today and thought I would check it out, having recently had all my vinyl professionally cleaned (actually picking up the last batch of 30 on Tuesday this week) I decided to dump all my PVC covers and swap to 'Spincare Density' ones which were recommended to me, after watching this I am so pleased I did. Going back at least 30 years, I remember I had a PVC outer cover bubble and actually stick to the album outer sleeve, cannot remember what it was but it went in the bin.
15:11 _"First Cue, stand-by"_ I love your subtle little nods to cinema (and TV).
I have been using PVC sleeves for over 40 years and never had any problem with them. Having said that the flight cases which I store my vinyl in have always been stored in the coolest part of the room and away from direct sunlight.
I'm the same, used PVC for decades without issue (as far as I know!)
Ditto, in my rec room where the temperature is always between 15 to 23 C. And there is no mold, as it's sealed, central AC and heat, and a bedroom in there. 20 years and not a problem. Yes, I prefer what he says, and if he's buying, sure.
Likewise, been collecting for nearly 45 years and used these covers. Never had a problem ever. Yes some of the older covers get brittle and yellow, but this is normally after 30 years. Some of my most prised albums that remain in mint condition have been preserved, no creased spines etc. They have been stored at room temperature all that time.
i'm glad i found this video, my record store boss gives me a couple of his VRP-type sleeves for free in case i have a PVC sleeve, and i'm very thankful to know i now have very safe sleeves
I have been using resealable protective covers for many years now. Never had a single issue .
First of all , the first time i remove the seal when the sleeve is inside the cover , then than for the second ,third ,fourth and millionth time i put my hand between the sleeve and the plastic cover .
Have over 8000 albums , and never had one issue .Play vinyl records regularly .
but still your videos are very interesting . keep them coming
Great video Andrew, yes it's interesting that years ago we never really thought about this high level protection of covers, we just were very careful about handling them.
Many thanks mate !
What a useful video, Andrew! I now know to correctly protect my vinyl records. I lalso earned some new terms such as off gassing and plasticisers! Back in the 70s I used to buy the pvc covers as they were readily available from shops here in the UK such as Boots and WH Smith but thankfully , we now live in more enlightened times where these new -and better -inner and outer sleeves do the job much more effectively and safely!
Hi Andrew. Thanks for all the interesting & informative videos. The damage you see on records stored in PVC isn’t caused by off-gassing, it’s actually caused by impurities of a vinyl pressing reacting to heat. The cloudy / mottled damage you see isn’t caused by chemical vapour on the vinyl surface. The damage is actually within the vinyl & not on the surface. Any PVC chemical vapours / off gassing will be sticky on the sleeves & should be easy to remove with lighter fluid or isopropyl alcohol. EMI pressings before 1962 won’t ever have this damage (no matter how long they’ve been stored in PVC) as the vinyl they used then didn’t use ‘fill ins’. ‘Fill ins’ were used to get more out of raw vinyl stock by mixing in quantities of other materials with the vinyl (often old stock shellac 78’s)
When subjected to heat the fill in materials & vinyl react resulting in the cloudy mottled markings
Which can also then cause noise (usually a background hiss) in the pressing
This is one of those revelations that rocks your world as a vinyl collector. Although this refers mostly to past collectors who used these PVC covers, the modern problem seems to me to be that picture discs are still being sold with seemingly PVC covers. I even have a clear vinyl that was also sold with one.
Now I put everything in polyethylene anti-static inners and polyethylene outers but I’m just discovering that PVC and polyethylene can interact in a similar way here. The polyethylene inners I’ve used have this weird puckering on them now and they seem thinner/weaker some how. I was switching them out for ones which don’t have a white reinforcement so that the back of the disc can also be seen but discovered the inners don’t seem to be fairing well. Seemingly the PVC is destroying the UV stabilisers and degrading the polyethylene.
This is extremely frustrating because you usually want to keep the cover supplied with the picture disc. Especially when it has hype or main label stickers. What are we supposed to do? Just throw away all PVC we encounter? Why is the industry still shipping these!?!
I really loved that ultra dramatic intro 💥💥💥
In the 60s when I started collecting a nice older gentleman (jazz collector) showed me how to open an lp and try to keep the shrink in tact...there were no protective sleeves that I knew of..that was in the70s when college kids were getting protective sleeves from....Japan..awes job!! Love this channel. Andrew the man!!!
Cheers Grover!
For sellers...I recommend you to change the inner sleeves of your used records when selling. There is nothing more reasuring than buying a used record with fresh inner sleeves and the old ones still attached if important. It's a small gesture but I guarantee the customers will appreciate
I immediately ran to my collection and threw out about 50 PVC covers! Thanks for the tip!!
I just sent this to a radio dj and some other friends on Facebook, who may or may not own and listen to music on vinyl. I wish I knew all this stuff back in the 70s and 80s. Follow up, my radio friend is going to post this on his website tomorrow, as he loves this video and has done episodes of his music documentary show on vinyl and how we listen to music, from time to time.
Hello Andrew,
Thanks again for warning against those PVC sleeves. They are the pest, really, and can also damage neighboring records.
My own recommendations:
- Katta also does 12" rounded sleeves that are perfect to insert into original inner sleeves (printed/cardboard ones).
- For other cases, I love black polylined inner sleeves with cut corners by Mari-Medienverpackungen. Available both on Amazon and their own site (cheaper).
- Mari also does CPP outer sleeves (without flap) which are great for their overall haptic and transparent feel to them. Also, cheaper to get from their own site.
- PE sleeves I try to avoid, as they get milky and unpleasant to the touch over time.
Thanks for your recommendations, Peter.
Do you have a link to the Mari CPP sleeves?
Love that Spirits Having Flown picture disc in the back ❤😆!!
Thanks for the advices, Andrew.
Loved seeing your ventriloquism trick at 12.55! Another very interesting video.
Excellent video! I totally agree but I must mention this remarkable fact. My collection was stored in an attic, so rather warm during the summer. Indeed, most of my records were stored inside PVC protective outer sleeves but only those records that were not in poly lined inners were affected by escaping plasticisers. Those records that were inside poly (or other material other than paper) lined inners survived perfectly well. Having said this, I do store them as described in this video. Greetings, Willem, Hekelingen, Holland.
I've been using outer and inner sleeves from Vinyl Storage Solutions for the past 4 years. All my records are now protected with their products. I'm in Canada and Vinyl Storage Solutions is based in Canada but also I know the gentleman from "45 RPM Audiophile" recommends them and he is based in Europe.
Very informative, Andrew!
Excellent, great information to keep my vinyl collection worth collecting!
Thanks Chris. Glad it was helpful!
Once again, a stellar job, Andrew. How about following this up with the best tips to preserve CDs, DVDs, tapes of every stripe and paper goods( Magazines and all the rest)? Many music fans cherish these every bit as much as their vinyl!
I always use the lined paper sleeves. They are kind to the records and sturdy outside so they don't crumple going in and out of the covers. For the outer, I use the HDPE sleeves. I don't like the fold over flaps. I also use the Seamzeazy repair strips. Thanks for sharing your preferred options.
I recently bought one of Paul McCartney's 'Fireman' LPs. The cardboard that contains the records looks to be enclosed in what I have to assume is a PVC cover. I removed the records from the PVC cover and set it close by the original LPs so as not to lose it, and to keep it as original as possible. They are enclosed with many other records inside of a clear plastic container that can be found at any Walmart store.
My Blind Faith copy by Simply Vinyl also came on a PVC cover. Luckly you made the PVC video right after I purchased it. Also, big thanks for today's video! Very valuable information!
I always use the mofi inner and outer sleeves, the look great and do a good job protecting the vinyl. Another good thing I learned was to keep the record in it's inner sleeve on the OUTSIDE of the outer Sleeve.. It helps keep ring wear down.
They have inserts for that too. It's basically folded card stock you slip into the jacket. They also combat spine collapsing
Good and informative video - thanks. Also nice to get the discount code 🙂
I think you're right in pointing out that heat - more than anything else - is what makes PVC outer sleeves problematic.
I've had my records stored in PVC outers since the beginning of the 1970'es without any problems or damage to neither the jackets nor the records (which always are put in a poly lined inner sleeve). Therefore *) I continue to buy and use them - also because they are stiff enough to be mounted w. the opening on the same side as the jacket's opening - and can be put in between the others records in this way/direction.
If you use the much thinner and flexible CPP outers, you need to have the opening upside (to be able to put them in between other records) and thus either place the record outside the jacket or - if placed inside the jacket - take the jacket/record out of the CPP outer sleeve. I find both ways inconvenient - and believe the record is best protected inside the jacket (in a poly lined inner).
*) I live in Denmark which is not a very hot place and my records are in my studio/listening room in the basement of the house where temperatures are stabil and newer over 24 C.
oh my god i got a good scare when I found out pvc were damaging to vinyls, I immediately went to go check on mine and watched your video. I only have japanese vinyls and thank the lord that they know how to protect their shit because most of them came in the higher quality sleeves that you mentioned were safer.
Thank you for your informative video. I immediately got rid of all my album cover protectors with the sticky fold over. Priceless advice.
You're welcome, Charles!
After dismayingly discovering PVC damage to some LPs and many 45s I changed to (inert) Polyethylene bags. A pointer about where the opening should be - dust and other small things fall down, and unless kept in a closed cupboard having the opening at the top also invites trouble. Doesn't looks as nice, but having the opening on the spine side offers the best protection; again a lesson learnt from experience.
I was wondering why those records that appeared to have never been played had that fogging effect. Mystery solved, thanks!.
Thank you. This was really interesting. I once bought a couple of records off of ebay that had those dreaded PVC sleeves, fortunately they looked a bit despicable and threw them away immediately. The records did not look affected.
I use mobile fidelity "ultraclear" outer sleeves and they seem to be made of a unique material. They seem to be the best of both worlds to me
In some cases, albums come in those PVC fold-over sleeves! The three I have are the original pressings of "Clear Spot" by Captain Beefheart, the original British pic-disc version of, "Welcome To The Pleasuredome" by Frankie Goes To Hollywood and the live Devo 12" (3 songs per side). I also have a few 10 albums or shaped singles with those, too. In all 3 12" cases, I've added inner sleeves to them so they aren't touching the PVC covers made for them.
The pic-disc was my first copy of Sgt. Pepper, too! I bought it at the Sandusky Mall in Sept. `78 while I was there working at Cedar Point, that summer. I had two weeks off at the end of Sept., because the last two weeks, they were only open on weekends so, I went back home (about 4 hours east of there) and played that copy and it not only sounded horrible, it skipped all over the place! So, when I went back for the next weekend shift, I returned it! It wasn't worth the $20 I paid for it!
I don't know if I'd trust Discwasher stuff anymore. I bought a brand new British re-issue of "Abbey Road" about 20 years ago and, as usual, used D3 to dust the record before playing it. I noticed it had a blue tint to it!! While playing it, I STILL heard pops & clicks from what I thought was dust so, I hit it with D3 again. This time, it sounded worse! So, I did it a third time and the needle wouldn't even track the grooves well!! Turns out, the D3 was actually CLOGGING the grooves!! (I only used 2 or 3 drops on the preener, each time!) Looking at the needle, I noticed a huge glob of that stuff surrounding it from the record, thus making it skate across the record!! I never used that stuff again and, to this day, still haven't been able to play that record because I haven't been able to get that shit out of the grooves!! My original that I bought in the late `60's sounded way better and it was slightly beat up!!
Those Mojo cd’s bring back some good memories!
If it's 140 degrees F in your house, then you have much bigger problems than
Vinyl record safety. Even inside storage facilities.
He doesn't mean constant. He means heat spikes on hot days.
For real. Just don't leave records in a car or an attic during the warmer months.... End of story. This guy is taking an extreme rare case and acting like it's common to just have records out at 140.
The PVC outer sleeves I personally haven’t come across here in Wisconsin. I have however received records from overseas in these sleeves (this was before I saw the first PVC themed video). I was impressed by their thickness and durability, and , used a couple for double Lp sets. After seeing that video, I purged them immediately. (THANK YOU)! Unfortunately it seems picture discs released in the 80’s (unauthorized interview discs, mostly found in the bargain bins) used PVC exclusively. Luckily I haven’t had issues with those covers gassing up.
And seeing and being introduced those KATA 45 sleeves, I’m going to seek them out for my 45’s and Ep’s and use exclusively.
As always, thank you for the valuable tips.
Great information Andrew! Thanks for sharing this. Have a wonderful week
Thanks Bill, you too.
I watched the first video you made on this topic first, then this. I certainly hope you discover a method solution for clouding. Since it is a phenomenon that occurs over time, it may take a method that solves it over time as well. I'm no chemical engineer, but there must be someone out there who could find away to get make the stains vanish with no further harm to the vinyl. I guess it makes sense for collectors to do a rotational examination of their inventory.
You forget how long 50 years is for something to just sit on a shelf. I had a friend who was 78s collector. You want to talk about damage. He dreaded moving, because he knew there were going to be casualties to his collection-and no small amount. Those 78s are brittle to begin with, but add 80-90 years, and they are like clay toothpicks. Preserving the past is important and I applaud your efforts in the battle against time and tide.
Great informative video Andrew
I wish I had seen this before I opted for a solution to my collection
I am happy to see that the inner sleeves I picked albeit not Mofi are rice paper from bags unlimited. The outer sleeve has a resealable flap and I am just as careful as I am when I play records so luckily so far the glue has not torn any outer jacket 😊
I will check out some of the new items
Much appreciated
Thanks Majed. Glad it was helpful.
thank you for sharing this valuable information, you have an incredible vinyl collection, you should really do a video showing it!!!!!
I’ve just ordered the McCartney 1/2/3 vinyl set looking forward to hearing it
Great video Andrew and thanks for helping us delete the PVC Monster!
Thanks for this information.Which is better to replace my PVC sleeves.Polypropylene or Polythene?
I just bought a complete set of The Thing That Solomon Overlooked by Boris. 3 orange vinyls, one yellow. Super rare and all in PVC jackets original to the release and an integral part of the packaging. Sadly all the vinyl has the off gassing damage, a sort of opaque film covering the vinyl surface. However the records do play very well except for some surface noise during the few quieter passages.
Thank you, Andrew! Always informative and entertaining! Be safe!
Excellent episode, very appropriate for this channel. Well done sir.
Thank you, Sir.
What?! No way! Nice shout out to my other favorite band, The Monkees!
That was very helpful indeed
I am learning not only how to store my vinyl and better inner sleeves and album covers but I learned that you should always clean your albums
I might have to figure out how to clean 78 carefully since they are made out of shellac.
Great info Andrew!!
I’ve used so many of those products over the years and like most everyone, you live and learn!😅
I have some CDs particularly video CDs that seem to have developed illnesses over the years. I wonder if you could add an episode some time in the future about that? I’ll send a pic to ya soon.
Thanks again for the informative and fun episode! Cheers!
Cheers Brian. I will be covering similar issue in the future.
@@Parlogram Great!
@@Parlogram Have you ever heard of MA Recordings Inner Sleeves? They're from Japan and almost have a fabric-like feel to them.
Years ago I used regular plastic album cover sleeves. Pvc wasn't out there yet in the 70s & 80s
thx for the course
You're welcome!
I had damage to practically all my US Connie Francis 45's due to the PVC outers. Fortunately i am replacing them and some of my UK 1970's LP 's were also damaged. Im lucky to say the least, no damages to the sleeves ,just the records. I also have those Bear family 5cd boxes 1990's [i don't know what outer covers to get?]. I'm pleased to see that there are polyetheline dble gatefold sleeves too for my Japanese CF releases from the 1970's-1990's.I throwed my PVC stuff away to the recycling bin .Now if somebody washed the 'perfume' smell of those PVC sleeves would that help or is it the PVC plastic that does the damage.?
Great video Andrew and very informative!
I have that ELO album, but the cover is perfectly smooth and doesn't smell like paint.
Congratulations! You know how to store your records correctly.
Great, informative video!! Thanks Andrew!!
Hi mr Andrew, I have a question, I am 13 years old and I want to start collecting Beatles vinyls and CDs, what do you recommend I collect CDs or vinyls first, and which album should I buy first in those formats?
Very helpful Andrew .
Andrew, you have hit the nail on the head for me. Resealable outer sleeves are such a mess. Too many record stores here in the US are transitioning to the outer sleeves with the resealable strip. Its quite a nerve wracking dance trying to get the LP out of the sleeve to examine what I might be buying fearing the whole time that I might damage either the LP or part of the record sleeve.
Just fold over the sticky edge so it sticks to itself. We have them occasionally in the UK and they are really irritating.
@@kypdur4746 I really like that suggestion that's a great idea.
Great review of plastics! Polythene (as in Polythene Pam, thank you very much Mr. John Lennon) is safe! Great (guys at my used record store are ALL over this stuff-and I trust them implicitly). However.... they don't carry covers for 45s. So I bought Polypropylene covers with a fold-over top on Amazon. Nifty. For those 45s that had yellowed-out acid paper covers (some disintegrating into dust and paper fibres), I just put them in the PP pouch 'naked'. Look great. I'm totally satisfied that the grooves are protected. However, you raised the key question: is polypropylene safe? Will it off-gas? Is heat a problem?
Found this on line: Is polypropylene a safe material?
Plastics #5 Polypropylene (PP) is considered to be the safest of all plastics, this is a robust plastic that is heat resistant. Because of its high heat tolerance, Polypropylene is unlikely to leach even when exposed to warm or hot water. This plastic is approved for use with food and beverage storage. Dec 1, 2008 [retrieved Nov 2022]
So... for now... I'm sticking with Polythene and PP.
Hey @Parlogram,
as you often talk about the best sounding beatles records, I wonder if you could make a video about what record players to use / which records player you have in order to get the best out of the records. Now, obviously it also comes to a good receiver and speakers, but still it would be very interesting to get some tips from you!
Best regards from Germany!
Love that LA light album by The Beach Boys. It doesn’t get much love
It’s so sad how us in the U.S never really got poly-lined inners. It’s still not really expected for most albums. I’d say, most albums I get are pretty thick card. I, of course use poly lined inners.
Thank You for this important video.
Very informative thank you. I realise now how much work i have to do :)
Great tips, you just exaggerated a little on the part where you glued the cover with the double-sided tape: D
True but it was necessary to make my point ;)
Hello from Poland!:)
Hello there!
Are you sure about the temperature at which the plastisizers are released? Unless you live in the desert 140F is a very high temperature. Some of my collectible records have been damaged by the PVC sleeves at much lower temperatures. All of the vinyls in my Pixies Minotaur box set are irreparably damaged by the horrible PVC coated inner sleeves. 😢
Although the MoFi style inners offer the best protection for removing records in and out of the sleeve, I had a friend who had many, but not all of his records stored in them. Unfortunately there was a fire that was in another part of his home. The heat caused all of the plastic inners to melt into the grooves of the records which essentially destroyed them. The records in the paper inners all survived with minor heat damage and light warping with the paper inners only getting extremely brittle and slightly yellowed. Just something on the extreme to consider in your storage options.
Thank you a lot as usual. I love this useful perfectionism :)
That thing you explained about the outer sleeves with adhesive happenned to me. Luckily it was just a normal paper inner sleeve which was affected.
Great informative video btw!
It's funny as I bought the same type of outer sleeves and cut the flap off of them and stuck it to the adhesive strip on the side. Worthless.
Very informative, thank you Andrew. Learned a lot from this video. Ps. Like your Yellow Submarine shirt!
Hi Andrew, thanks for another great video. You mentioned it can affect CD's as well. What about the inlay sleeves of the 2009 Mono CD box and the The US Albums CD boxset? Are these sleeves damaging as well? Do you have any idea? Thanks in advance.
What is your thought about “low” density polyethylene inner sleeves?
Really good episode :)
Hopefully by tomorrow I would have got rid of those EVIL :D PVC covers(just waiting for the Amazon man to bring me more newer covers today) They are the 'High-Density Polypropylene' covers & I think they will be ok er I think 🤔 + I was thinking of not putting my records in any extra outer covers but then dust might get into them. Excellent video 👍;)
So maybe something has changed since this video was uploaded but I don’t see any links to the actual products used in this video, only a link to protected which just takes me to their home page. Hopefully it does it exists and I’m just missing it but I’d really like to get a hold of the individual product links if possible.
Thank you very much, Andrew! I'll take your advices. Great video, indeed!
@6:23 never had a problem with the 180gram disc's in those sleeves
Question is are these PVC sleeves they sell in HMV , they do smell , ive bought a few for my double remasters
I lolled when you was wiping away the gas lol
since you mentioned CDs: I recently discovered after moving that the booklets of some of my CDs are made useless and all of their pages are sticking like they are glued together. No idea what happened and only theory is, it must've been some kind of heat exposure in the past. 🤔🤔
In terms of PVC jackets: I heard about that problem a while ago, but what dangers exist, when you still store the vinyl in proper inner sleeves? Are they losing their protection, when the gas is leaking out?
Nice and helpful video. However, the website mentioned has been updated and the links in the description no longer function.
Thanks for letting me know, Jack!
Thanks for the very informative presentation
Wondering where I can find that nice yellow submarine polo
Cheers
Cheers Chris. The polo is from the Beatles store: www.thebeatlesonline.co.uk/thebeatles/MENS-POLOS/Unisex-Polo-Shirt-Yellow-Submarine/6KLC1SZM000
I’m pretty sure Paul’s Electric Arguments album came in a PVC sleeve.
I’ve wondered that myself as I have a copy. The outer sleeve smells more like an inflatable beach ball than paint.
Great video! Very helpful, Thanks 😉
vinyl sleeves are very common to come with picture discs and the like, and it seems to me will stick DIRECTLY to the vinyl surface even more quickly when left directly in contact as they have often been sold, obviously to show off the artwork.....P
Very interesting video. I still need to replace quite a few innersleeves. Btw I store most of my cds (thousands) in polytheen sleeves as well. Is there any risk in that way of cd storage? That would be my worst fear. Maybe that might be a new video topic…
Very good explainer. If you know anything about the so-called “tea-staining” that happens to certain picture discs, I’d love to see an in-depth video on what causes it and how to avoid it. A title which is particularly prone to this is the shaped picture disc for Prince’s “Paisley Park” single. (A quick scroll on google images will show the issue clearly). There are almost no unaffected copies left!
I know what you mean, Markus. I'll look into it.
2:05 At 140°F / 60°C records will start to warp anyway, with or without pvc sleeves!
I use Packlinq outers
Do you know if PVC off gassing also effects CDs? I’ve got a bunch of CDs in cardboard cases (imitating a vinyl sleeve) that I have stored in CD sized PVC covers. 😬😬😬
That's not something I've experienced, Johnny.
Thanks for the info!
What about Polyetheen sleeves? Is that OK?
Yes, polythene sleeves are safe.
thanx for advice, Sir !
My pleasure!
Hello Andrew, great topic! I've been happy with the Mofi sleeves for years now, but static seems inescapable no matter what I do.
How is the sound quality of your Sgt. Pepper picture disc?
The new 'Revolver' picture disc sounds quite good. Thank you.
The Revolver picture discs sounds much better than Sgt Pepper.
Good advice!
Can you please make a video on how to get rid of light mold off of records and inside of album covers