Team viewer is such a huge fucking rip off. I cant believe anyone paid them and weren't on drugs or ordered to by some ignorant boss. Seriously there are so many ways to do good remote access for free just as secure, just might take a day or two to make it be as convenient as teamviewer. Fuck TeamViewer quit using them. Problem solved.
Teamviewer sent collections after me for $600 for a license I didn't use, they auto-renewed via an evergreen clause that I didn't realize was in place, but my credit card had expired so they couldn't take the money. This was something like 4 or 5+ years ago. TBH I am shocked anyone was still using them in 2021. They sent collections and it was essentially take the hit on my credit score, or pay for a license on a product for a term I never used it, didn't intend to use, nor want to use. That sort of evergreen clause and enforcement isn't legal in every state, but they knew it was in mine. They're ghouls and every day that they slide further into obscurity and uselessness is a good day.
Old comment, but PayPal did something similar to me when I was ~13-14yo. I had an account to buy stuff on ebay (only used it once or twice) and then one day I get an email that my account was somehow negative $60+. I hadn't used the account in at least a year at this point so I just ignored it. They kept emailing me over and over for YEARS and at some point closed my account and set it to collections even though I wasn't even 18 yet.... Funny thing is a lot of the vital information about me that they needed to go through the collections process wasn't even my real information (because I'm smart and don't provide that stuff to random companies) so I never got any actual letters about it. I stopped using the email used to set up the PayPal account and just forgot it ever even happened, until a couple years ago when I went back and logged into that email account again and remembered what happened. I searched 'PayPal' in the search bar and saw that THEY WERE STILL EMAILING ME!! Idk if they ever gave up cause I haven't logged back in since then but by now it's been almost a decade since they falsely charged me and it would be REALLY funny if they are still trying to get that $60. Apparently I'm banned for life from using PayPal but I also have another account I made a few years ago when I needed to use PayPal for one transaction and that's still up lmfao
@@NotMe-ej9yz You should log back in again just to check, it would be hilarious if they were still hounding you for that measly 60 quid, because 60 quid from one person is such a hit to their financial situation.
I still don't understand how that legal anywhere giving that you pay upfront for the service. If you don't pay them they shouldn't be able to just go ahead with the service and insist you pay anyway. The contract hasn't been completed.
Remember when you bought software in a box with a license key, installed it, activated it once, and all the developer ever knew about you was that someone had purchased their software at some time in the past, and they left you the fuck alone because you hadn't given them your complete personal credentials and they didn't assume a right to behave like your ongoing business partners just because you bought their product once? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I had to switch to UltraViewer. I used TeamViewer with a business I worked for in the past so they now think everything I do with TeamViewer is business related and refuse to let me use it unless I pay them money.
Exactly! It pushes people to investigate and learn what they wouldn't otherwise. It takes people away from their comfort zone. All to escape harrassment via ads.
I love capitalism. And this? This is peak capitalism. Don't like shit? Make own shit. Give shit away for goodwill. Sell other shit now that people know you do good work.
TeamViewer : *Treats Linus as a special case and tries their best to appease to him and get on his good grace* Linus : *gets angrier* TeamViewer : *shocked pikachu face*
The stock seemed to crash by October 6th. It was being shorted before, but that's when I saw the big cliff. Linus' tweet was at October 6th, so I assume there is some causation there.
Team viewer hit me with a "we've detected commerical activity on your account" then locked me out for some set amount of time while I was trying to remote into the computer connected to my 3D printer... in the same house. Uninstalled it from all my computers right after that and just jumped to chrome remote desktop. Probably never going back.
How would they detect that? How would they be allowed to detect anything on your system? If this tells you anything, that it tells you that they are possibly illegally spying on you. They must be reading your networks, scanning your devices and whatnot...... Is Team Viewer owned by Facebook?
@@marcfuchs6938 they have some bs algorithms and they monitor how frequently you connect to specific devices. Connect too frequently and you'll likely get canned very soon.
@@jothain Well, as I said, spying on you. Because they have no right to analyze your system in a way, that is not necessary for their service. But it doesn't matter, almost any company these days would screw you over at any time.
@@marcfuchs6938 I fully agree on you there. Most corps just try to lure into usage and after honeymoon period the subscription bombing starts with removed features etc. Unfortunately very true.
Reminds me of the time I applied for a loan, I was refused due to bad credit. I was then bombarded for 6 months by the loan company with adverts offering me a loan. I called multiple times and sent multiple emails but they kept coming. I found this majorly frustrating as they refused to give me a loan yet still spammed me offering a service they won't get me. So I took to Twitter, called them out, and the tweet got like and shared enough for them to pay attention to it. They ended up compensating me financially, as they knew I had a harassment case against them, and that their harassment was now public. So, always complain, and go to the length you need for them to listen.
the fact that teamviewers stock, started the year at 44 Euro and is now at 13 Euro, gives you a great example of how well their subscription model is doing...
@@bbbbbbb51 technically, stock value is the value of the loan (stock) for which the companies ability to pay dividends on which is what maintains a stock price. Really freaking weird system, but yeah
@@goldenhate6649 is that the reason why tesla (a e-vehicle producer whose cars are still in alpha/beta state) is more valuable than every automotive company together? I highly doubt it.
This is the kind of stuff that my state attorney general loves to pursue. My state has an escalating scale of fines for companies that don’t comply with requests to be put on the do not contact list.
Mind if i ask which state? Im in PA. Might have to get residency there so I can give them a few leads. I've lost count of the solicitors that continue to harass me, its definitely in the double digits at this point. Most of them call me 4+ times a week, and the worst two call multiple times daily. I let it go to voicemail and they blow up my phone until i actually pick up. And yes, these are companies that need to comply to such standards, not some shady 3rd world scammer shit. Never really bothered to look into legal action regarding this issue before, just got used to it and accepted the fact that im gonna get hassled by these fuckers.
@@scumbaggo Washington State AG used to be very aggressive back in the day. However, any State AG should be happy to take this on. Also check out the US gov do not call website. There should be a report option on the website.
Yeah sounds like such an easy morning routine to rack up attorney cases. Like open and shut before your coffee. "You have that customer? Closed answers only, yes or no. - Yes - Have he told you to put him on no contact list? - Yes - Did you contact him again? - ... yes - FINED! I'm off for a coffee and another star on my sleeve"
I love seeing Linus stick up for us common folk. His "wrong answer" response perfectly highlights a problem with pretty much all of the tech industry; appeasing the few with influence to try and lull them into a false sense of appreciation, and sometimes banking on that attempt to hopefully generate more favorable reception within the community of the influences. It's why I appreciate when he does the undercover thing when interacting with manufacturers, so when they treat him like a general customer instead of a tech community figure, he sees what most other people see, and has the experience they do. This shit has got to stop. Trying to win favor by only catering to the popular minority isn't a victory, it's pathetic. Providers shouldn't be groveling at the feet of influencers, they should be groveling at the feet of all of their customers. Without them, you're worthless. You are only as good as you treat the people you provide products for.
@@SaHaRaSquad lol there was a point where they got hacked and intruders were able to remote access pcs 😭, haven’t used it since, even if that news was overblown I ain’t taking that risk
This subscription based business model is the reason why i go the extra mile for pirated software. One used to be able to buy a copy of a software and own that copy for life. Now, we have installed software on our machines, occupying valuable memory, that will not work unless your license is up to date. Again, i will move heaven and earth for a pirated copy rather than a subscription license. And software companies, like autodesk, can bit me for all i care.
When subscriptions first appeared, it was actually pretty good. I think people forget that Photoshop used to cost close to $1000 a seat, and Maya was like $6000. So being able to get “pro” level software at a reasonable price was great. It actually reduced piracy of these products.
@@zoeherriot It's as Gabe Newell said: "Piracy is a service issue." If your product sucks, people will go to a different product, no matter the price. If all products suck or you're a monopoly, people will pirate.
@@dr.cheeze5382 it's more than just a service issue. ALL products will be pirated if they are available for download on day 1. Gabe is right for the baseline. But you still have considerable piracy even if you do everything right. You can have the best product, not be a monopoly and STILL have piracy issues. There's no way around that. Because people can simply be jackasses. I've been working in AAA for 25 years now, and all to often gamers have very simplified models of how this works - which are wrong.
Their response is so classic. They don't stop their shitty practices, they stop harassing the big name that's giving them bad PR. Reminds me of when one of his staff got banned from WoW for no reason and got ignored until he tweeted about it. Soulless corporations totally our of touch from reality, human decency and without conscience or morals.
@@MM-ne4ne If communists were as good at manual labor as they are at writing paragraphs of what amounts to no substance then it probably wouldn't fail every time
@@MM-ne4ne To be fair, not everything you said is "facts". "Chinese Communist" is a totalitarian and dictatorial political party, not really a "population" in the way that something like a particular race would be. And making opinions based off trends in the environment is the very essence of democracy. It's why pure democracy cannot work. "Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting over what to have for lunch", aka tyranny of the majority.
In Europe cold calling like that in the morning would be considered Illegal and if you told them before "STOP CALLING ME!" "STOP EMAILING ME!" "DO NOT CONTACT ME!" they're required by law to comply with your wishes. They've no reason to be harassing you and this is in fact harassment!
This isn't harassment by any legal definition and even if it was it doesn't apply to companies you do business with. I don't know about Europe but if Europe is that way they're stupid.
@@RunicSigils It applies a;; companies we do business with or not! When you tell a company to delete your contact details and to stop calling you their implied right to bug the fuck out of you has been revoked. When somebody calls you once thats fine, If they call you again and you tell them to stop. you've voiced your right to privacy and for them to erase you from their contact list. continued phone calls would be considered harassment. If you don't consider cold calling harassment its likely because you've worked in a call centre and take part in such intrusive shit. Nothing stupid about giving the people rights to stop companies bugging them.
@@RunicSigils "erm actually its stupid that a company you purchased a product from once can't ceaslessly pester you with emails and phone calls in the middle of the night" you are an idiot.
The move from perpetual licenses to subscriptions is TERRIBLE for most consumers. Yes there are niche situations where it's better, but overall it's massively exploitative.
It's a money grab. The user does not truly benefit, it's all about how to make more money for the company. You can argue that it gives them more money to further develop the product, but then again if they didn't develop the product properly then I'd just stop using it
The trouble with perpetual licenses is that you usually don't get any app updates longer than the normal subscription window. This might make sense to some, since you didn't pay for the newer version of the software but can still use the old version. But over time you end up with these ancient apps that are dated, slow, and make your computer less secure (bugs in code, inability to upgrade OS, etc.) Also, the company could always stop honoring their perpetual license customers and discontinue their old servers, which does happen. This means you'll probably need to buy another perpetual license, effectively re-creating a subscription model but with less frequent payments. So while I also hate paying for subscription services, the move to that model feels inevitable. All this fuss is why I always look for free and/or open source software whenever possible, and rarely have a need to buy software these days.
I personally disagree. I don't think it had to be an either/or situation. They should BOTH exist. Don't want an exorbitant upfront cost? Subscribe! Don't want to pay monthly or annually? Buy it. everyone's happy.
The price for a perpetual license isn’t even a difficult thing to sort out for a company like TeamViewer, but the problem usually stems from needing constant predictable income to satisfy investors and pay for new features (devs). For the b2b side it’s a little different, but generally speaking you calculate the average lifetime value of your customers, double it for profitable lifetime access.
@@Piktro yea, but that could be skewed very easily. If a company buys a perpetual license and 100 or so employees use it, it is gonna be way different than a 10 person team. Your math is off and investors don't want giant booms and long dry spells. They want constant increase.
@@randominternetguy3537 “it’s a little different for b2b”, “generally speaking”. I was truncating for TH-cam, Mr. Businessman. I’m simply pointing out that for a company like TeamViewer, it would be easy to figure out the proper figures, and provided a crude example.
Perpetual licenses, when available, are usually priced in such a way for the product to be obsolete before you reach ROI (compared to subscription) For instance, my current cad/cam software that i bought a perpetual license for. A perpetual license for 1 computer, without updates, costs the same as 15 years of subscription with the "frequent updates" add-on. Sadly, i bought the perpetual license to be in a legal greyzone in regards to accessing the cracked version (which, with telemetry and drm removed, runs better on a core 2 quad than the normal edition does on a threadripper) that supports exporting to all other cad/cam programs
This reminds me of a credit card company and a health insurance company. My Dad died. I notified his credit card company and his health insurance company. They kept mailing and emailing him marketing stuff. I'd receive these marketing items, call them to tell them to stop, the person who I'd speak to would say they'd put him on a list/take him off a list and that it would stop....it didn't. It me several times of going over people's heads and posting to social media for it to stop.
Maybe I'm someone who loves chaos, but I use Google Chrome to install MS Edge Beta on my Linux machine. For a reason, though. Chrome basically crashes my entire OS after opening the 6th tab without any way to escape. Somehow Edge didn't.
There's a (not so rigorous) psychological term for what TeamViewer did: boundary destroying. They basically ignore and violate all of your interpersonal boundaries despite you explicitly telling them what not to do. If you ever meet a person who does this, do the grey rock technique (give the simplest, least interesting answers possible) until you can disengage and cut them out of your life.
@@borismcqueen1959 Not sure if we're talking specifically about business relationships here or also personal ones, but It's much easier and healthier to just cut contact completely instead of playing games in most cases.
@@scumbaggo the grey rock method isn't a game, it's taking into account that many can't instantly cut someone out, especially in personal relationships and family situations. The method is more of a way to act in that"in between time" of realising you need to cut them out and doing so, in the safest way possible.
I have a lifetime Malwarebytes license, and they framed it as "we will honor old lifetime licenses and in-box keys" and have never given me a popup or ad.
Same here. They even still officially allow and facilitate license transfers of lifetime licenses. Friend of mine gave me one because he had a spare and I needed one for my laptop.
The issue is Linus is no longer their customer - their customers in their mind are people who continue to pay them money. Since they're not getting any money any more, you're basically dead to them.
Very healthy business practices yeah. But I would suggest something like: "we have encrypted your disk, call us and tell us how much would you pay for the password to unencrypt it" If you are going to extort your own customers do it right.
@@TimoRutanen Nah man, it's easy! For example, put your official corporate headquarters in the mail forwarding room of a Russian mafia-owned coworking space on Cyprus, and do your actual work from an undisclosed location in Belarus.
"I'm sure you thought you were making me happy, but what you actually did was demonstrate how terrible your business practices are *for everyone else*. Treating me special is just another way of saying that you don't treat your customers like you should. Because, if you know it's the right thing to do, and you'll do it for me, then you should automatically do it for everyone. That simple" Yes. It truly is that simple, and I love to see this response from Linus. The correct answer is to be a better company. Not to try to make someone who points out bad business practices just a little happier. If they're willing to thrust this into the public, then a quick and private "here you go" type solution isn't really going to do much to help your publicity as a company. Way to go Linus, much respect for your response to this "resolution" that they provided!
I bought 10 licenses of TeamViewer and have the EXACT same story as you. It's so frustrating. Thank you for using your playform to bring awareness of the ridiculous actions of TeamViewer. I hope they stop harassing me because of your words.
how could it possibly blow up more? they have no recourse for coming back at linus. they could sue him for libel but since everything he said was factually true it'd be another slam dunk win for linus.
^^^^^^. Sadly as long as their are evil companies around. Pirates and the monder Iron Monkey will be around. A lot of the top people in a company do that. Adobe and Autodesk anyone? SolidWorks and MS are top picks to. A company can ask for 5k every however many months. and a dragon metal lock for security. They might not get that though. A good chance if you know or are a pirate the response is pronounced: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know for fact NASA and the NSA pirates stuff. A a company trying to take on either of those would do just as well taking on a world boss solol, while it's current. They can try...they'll do horribly, but they can try.
@@JayMaverick it's the middle choice. Should you use something open source instead? Yes. But should you use the default corporate shitware version instead? Fuck no.
This is one reason why I love Linus. Despite his media presence and the influence he holds in the tech world, the fact that he has always questioned whether he's getting preferential treatment is refreshing to see. You are an honest person Linus and thank you very much for helping us be better people too.
Cisco is pulling the same kind of bullshit with a security appliance that we bought with perpetual device licenses 2 1/2 years ago: Oh, you want to update your software to a non-deprecated version? Sure, but we'll convert all your stupidly expensive perpetual licenses to 3 year ones. Of course you can stick with your ancient software version but it won't work with more recent hardware and of course we're not going to give you any support with it, either. And their smart licensing is just as terrible. I'm just waiting for them to hold our company network ransom, can't be long now...
Hopefully the fineprint on the perpetual contract did not state something like 'for this/the current version'. If it does well you are screwed because you are getting what you pay for. If it doesn't a letter from a renowned lawfirm should be step one.
" non-deprecated version" Excuse me what is this? What car company, that leases you the vehicle for thousands of dollars, then keeps giving you revisions? Why is it that all these "service model" naysayers STILL want a damn continuous service? Free oil change for life? Did you want a WYSIWYG package or NOT? Even the main issue here, these solicitations, obviously they WILL keep calling because your old perpetual license was not build compatible with the FUTURE technology of their current database, to your immense surprise no doubt. It's like you reserved a VIP booth from the restaurant's OLD wing that's up for demolition, and get OFFENDED that the marketing dept. allows some flyers about the new system to even be visible from there. The reason they now have a subscription model is BECAUSE people keep demanding their damn free refills, because the subscription model WON the competition over what the market will demand. JUST ignore the damn calls. If you're wondering how getting wolf whistled feels like, this is it. Some women DEMAND it so everyone has to live with it. It would be nice if they could just buy some server somewhere, leave it running forever and have it stay in place like mt. rushmore, but that's not exactly how things work in cyberspace. You might consider it your "right" if you just copypaste your morals from real world anecdotes, but this will not WORK in cyberspace, that's the problem. They can put up a post-it note on EVERY perpetual plan licenser saying "don't call this number", "influencer" or not, but it will just get trashed again by the next hapless employee whose only job is to ASK to upgrade.
i absolutely love how linus can lose his patience after A LOT. of provocation, drop a 5 min comment and just devastate a tech company :) love that he brings these problems up and deals with them openly.
Reminds me of the time Verizon charged someone 100 times what they thought a month's worth of international data would cost, because their customer service reps don't know the difference between a dollar and a cent (specifically they read "$0.02" as "0.02 cents," which is mathematically equivalent to saying 1=100). He demanded that the bill be adjusted to the number he was quoted, in effect a 99% refund. They ultimately just canceled the entire bill for that month, never at any point admitting they even understood what the mistake was, or trying to train their employees how to read numbers correctly. They just wanted to shut up the one person who was being loud enough, and couldn't care less who fell into the same trap but didn't feel like starting a blog about it.
This doesn't make sense. It's the other way around. 0.02 cents is a hundred times LESS than 0.02 dollars, not more. So the mathematical equivalent of 100=1. He should have been charged next to nothing for the data.
@@williamfowl8670 I think that is the point. Was told it would cost 0.02 cents (which is $0.0002). The bill charged him $0.02 (which is what the rep was meant to say). Therefore was charged 100 times more than he was told he would be charged.
Or their staff being too lazy to open one of the MANY currency converters available for F R E E and the process taking like two seconds per conversion is astounding.
Bang on the money. The solution isn't a "disable notifications" fix, it's addressing the root problem: that of paid users being asked for more money, and it's an issue happening across many services.
Thank you! When I heard they put you on their list, my *immediate* thought was "what about everyone else who doesn't have 10 million viewers?" We appreciate that you recognize the problem with their response.
9:15 This is what I like about Linus. Even though he has so much influence, he still cares for the customers who buy products and doesn't give in to the corporate greed that so many companies have nowadays. Thanks Linus!
If I were a big tech corporation right now, I’d be REALLY concerned about LTT Labs. Given Linus’ penchant for honesty and calling companies on their bullshit, some of Labs’ test results are going to be… jarring.
What upsets me the most about this is that they must‘ve added these „in-product marketing messages“ in the subscription version (Otherwise there wouldn’t be a new checkbox) So that means even if you give in and buy their subscription, they‘re still going to send you these messages, because you’re apparently not giving them enough money yet. Wow.
Teamviewer: Tell us what you'll pay for a subscription and stretch the rest of your 2021 budget. Perpetual license users: We'll not pay for a subscription and stretch the rest of our budget for eternity.
@greatanotherchannel companies have a set budget for various expenses that they should not exceed every period else that cuts into their profits. “Stretching a budget” means that you are trying to Tetris in your costs so that you can get as much value as possible for your expenses, especially if you are starting to run low on money as you approach the end of the period. Looking for sales rather than pay full price, downgrading a subscription to a lower tier, and doing name-your-price offers are ways to stretch your budget.
@@Roccondil ironically none of these are offered for a product going the SaaS route. Also it adds so much overhead to the bean counters they start offloading it related finances for it to sort out, take a guess to how that turns out. My actual drive to get rid of much of useless monthly payment SaaS is to lighten my load, is it enough to provide support and wrestling server issues but I'm also to request and file invoices? I'll take a Free as French Revolution approach to that. Next time TV call us will be forwarded to legal to file a restraining order.
I have no idea why in the world TeamViewer isn't separated into client software and server software. If you want just "remove control some other PC", too bad, you automatically also get "remote control my PC by someone else". PLUS it's working in the background by default! What a "secure" way to do things.
@@mrosskne TeamViewer had a free tier for non commercial use so small time phone scammers used it to get onto peoples machines. As the scammers got more organized they started buying licences and TeamViewer did little to cut them off and took years to put notices in their software to warn scam targets, and users in general, that they might be scammed and that they were giving control of their computer to the scammers.
My 5 year old niece knows about you because I've shown her some of LTT. She walked up behind me while I was wearing headphones, watched for a minute, stated "Linus is upset" loudly, then walked away. Very astute, child, very astute.
There isn't a single reason I can think of when you "upgrade" to subscription over perpetual you already paid for. This is definitely, without a shed of a doubt, a "downgrade".
I know a 99th of fuck all about computers but I can't stop watching LTT. I watch purely for the cast and to see them happy and succeeding. They remind me of my own nerdy mates.
i just don't use any subscription software. the moment they stop offering one-time purchases is the moment i look elsewhere for an alternative. plenty of free open source programs nowadays, you don't NEED to pay for anything. i'd rather donate to those projects instead.
Very well said, I'm glad you guys talked about this. It's an issue that's very very infuriating, and considering how prominent it is in the industry, it's one of the main reasons I try to use open source software.
@@harshbansal85 lol which is what he was trying to set up sounds like. I get the impression homey likes to make things a headache for himself...because, him. I used a neet one called squak at work
This. This is why I love LTT and why I support them. Because if Linus gets mad because he is not being treated special, and then finds out they know who he is....and "rectify it" so he is treated specially, he gets madder that others are being left out
We had a perpetual license for TV 9, earlier last year they decided to suspend service for those versions. After many companies cried out about this (especially because it's a legal grey area), they decided to upgrade old license to TV 15 for 5 years. We plain on switching to AnyDesk at that point.
Last place I worked we had a perpetual license too. They literally called us one day telling us we should consider upgrading to 14 I think. I of course said we were happy with our current version but thanks for the offer. Less than 24 hours later our license was suddenly just invalid.
I didn't know they were traded publicly until I read this. I looked up their history and saw that their stock took a nosedive right around the time this happened and laughed hysterically. 0 remorse for companies like this. Sucks to suck
As a software engineer, I started thinking through how I'd implement subscriptions moving away from licenses with outstanding perpetual licenses. I settled almost instantly on creating permanent subscription records for those customers with no expiration with a special flag that lets me know to ignore them when processing payments and reject things like cancellation requests. I was shocked by the end of this story when they decided to do something to fix a single customer, when my immediate gut reaction was to implement a solution for all perpetual licenses. I can't comprehend how this is someone's solution.
Teamviewer also no longer offers a free version for non-commercial users. They SAY they do, but as soon as you try to log in, it locks itself out and forces you to buy a license. When you contact customer support, they send you a reset link that doesn't do anything. I haven't been able to use Teamviewer for three years, now, after having an account for well over a decade. Absolute garbage.
Linus really didn't let his position in the world get to him. Any strings he pulls are a means to a genuine end and it's a rare but good thing in the world we now live. Keep it up buddy, you're a good man.
fun fact : if you asked to be put on a do not call list/iDNC and the company continues to call you, you can sue the company and will win. i’ve had multiple call center jobs and they’ve all said that same thing. if they ask not to be called again, DO NOT CALL THEM AGAIN. its one of the big no no’s
Last year Linus went HAM against nVidia when they blackmailed a fellow youtuber for focusing on the rasterization capabilities of their 3000 series GPU, it was glorious.
Gave up on Teamviewer a while ago. Anydesk works just as good and doesn't harrass you. And what is up with that modern art where the cartoons have microcephalic heads (which I see Teamviewer uses)? It's gross, kind of like Tumbler nose. They should combine the two and see how repulsive they can get.
Corporate "art design" is horrendous. They use the same design language at Facebook and Google too. All these grotesque looking small head, big bodied characters with blank stares plastered everywhere.
They legit blocked me from finishing my proposal to my wife on my home PC (had to remote during lunch because of work crunch, almost didn't make it in time too) due to "commercial use" and tried to force me to buy an overpriced subscription. Support basically said "pay us or fuck off". I wouldn't use that shit again if they PAID ME to use it. I only use it when I have to remote assist someone too dense to use a proper remote desktop/vnc. I wonder if it's time for them to get some competition, how much could the backend server cost when the whole process is a few packets before becoming P2P? Especially since there are open, secure VNC FOSS projects that would be comparable if not for the clunky setup process...
"stretch the rest of your 2021 budget" really bugs me. It sounds so desperate. The word "stretch" implies my organization is already capital restricted and allocated but why not spend more than we are comfortable with to pay for this thing that should not cost us anymore. Terrible message.
From one Canadian to another - you literally are the best thing about TH-cam. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your moral compass and the level of candidness.
Our company also owns a perpetual Teamviewer 12 license. The amount of emails I get to please change to a newer version aka subscription is very high. The best part is that these mails are not personalized so it is just "hello" without my name but they are made to look loke a person wrote them. Since I did Not answer their emails they started to try other email adresses in the company
I dropped them from my go to list of helpful programs after they swapped to a subscription model and pretty much dropped free use. That was fine for simple, small remote connections that I needed occasionally, but I don't use them enough to warrant the high cost and annoyance of their software, especially now. There are other options out there that do what I need to do.
Here's a lesson to Tydal when they were reactivating user accounts with supposed deleted credit card info. In my case as I am a nobody, it was a "you did it" (which I clearly did not) and for more public people it was a "We are a sorry this happened to you, here, take your money back and get this one year/six months free, on us". I had to spend hours back and forth with my credit card operator trying to explain the mess. Now I don't recommend Tydal for anyone as apparently they keep your credit card info even if you removed it from your account and they don't know how those accounts were reactivated...
Yeah, steam link is great. The perfect combo would be to put steam on a headless linux machine, then remote into it from your phone, TV, etc. using steam link... except that running steam link on linux is buggy as hell ironically.
@@seeibe Would that even work? Steam Link streams your screen which I assume requires screen capture, which in turns requires a screen (an XServer), so running it headless shouldn't work (?).
@@dwirandypradhika6752 Virtual monitors are a thing. In the worst case you can get one of those fake monitor attachments that are also used for mining. For me it worked to just attach a monitor temporarily and then unplug it, but I didn't get further than that because of the bugs with steam itself (that were present even with a monitor connected).
Reminds me of GameSpy Arcade. I had bought GameSpy 3D, which was amazing, and when they launched a new version - GameSpy Arcade, I went ahead and bought the lifetime license of it. Well, after a bit, they went to a subscription model. And they would frequently send me an email begging me to switch my lifetime license to a 1 year subscription to three of their products - two that I had lifetime and the third I didn't care about. And this went on for significantly longer than 3 years. Why would ANYONE agree to take their lifetime license into a limited license? The companies just do not get the message.
Would need to be a class action to get any real payout, otherwise lawyers fees would be higher. Probably arent enough people who actually care about spam emails.
Reminds me when my parents had a old license for adobe software, at one point there was a notification saying it was an “illegal” license and needed to get subscription to keep using adobe
My guess is that your computer got a virus at one point where the serial for your photoshop license got scraped along with whatever the script it launched looked for, or Adobe was just being greedy as usual
"it's not worth the effort" is how millionaires and other shitty companies take advantage of us poors who don't have a lawyer on retainer and infinite money to burn that we can write off on taxes as a "business loss" so it somehow counts towards bettering the world around you. My public lottery dream is to ruin terrible companies that take advantage of people who simply cannot afford not to get screwed.
The answer to this is already in place: leave bad reviews. If everyone that is screwed over leaves a scathing review the company will eventually fold because nobody trusts them anymore.
@@spoofer44 Ok but what stops them from deleting said negative reviews? How do you prevent a company from buying people to leave positive reviews? Or using bots to make it look like a bunch of people are happy with product and recommend it? People's opinions matter when the system isn't corrupt and mired by corporate/political interest who throw a lot of money to hide problems under the rug and have things their way...
You need a "General Data Protection Regulation" in North America for customers like we have in EU Countries. With that they need your consent in the first place for keeping your personal data for marketing bs. You have the right to be forgotten and it´s always opt out by default. It´s a real sharp sword for customers against these giant companies giving a *** about your data, punishment is real they sue whatsapp for 225€ Million.
@@doctorhealsgood5456 No, only "functional" cookies / options are allowed not be turned off. And "Marketing" is not functional. Functional means you need that to use the site or product like safety cookies or user profile data. Besides that there is also the regular law. And putting you on a marketing list is only allowed if you showed explicit interest (signed up for product news) or you are corporation who used similar products - at least here in Germany.
Subscription models piss me the off. Either let me buy what I want in perpetuity or I will go find it elsewhere, either by chosing another company's product or finding a cough workaround for yours. It's as simple as that.
Linus had his yelp salesperson moment
And it was glorious!
Ayye. My favorite TH-camr in tech
His Comcast moment
Team viewer is such a huge fucking rip off. I cant believe anyone paid them and weren't on drugs or ordered to by some ignorant boss. Seriously there are so many ways to do good remote access for free just as secure, just might take a day or two to make it be as convenient as teamviewer. Fuck TeamViewer quit using them. Problem solved.
Linus:Linux, sounds compatible
"Treating me special, is just another way of saying that you don't treat your customers like you should." 👏 👏
I literally saw this comment at the same time he said that 😂😂
This is why i really like linus. He´s a genuinely good person. At least what you can see on youtube.
You go guy
@@senfdame528 yet he is still useing them instead of finding a good company to use
So... Will Nvidia be giving away their flag ship Gaming GPUs to everyone that casual says they need to upgrade their gaming system?
@@steveholland1163 Dude he paid for a perpetual license. Why should he use anything else?
Teamviewer sent collections after me for $600 for a license I didn't use, they auto-renewed via an evergreen clause that I didn't realize was in place, but my credit card had expired so they couldn't take the money. This was something like 4 or 5+ years ago. TBH I am shocked anyone was still using them in 2021.
They sent collections and it was essentially take the hit on my credit score, or pay for a license on a product for a term I never used it, didn't intend to use, nor want to use. That sort of evergreen clause and enforcement isn't legal in every state, but they knew it was in mine.
They're ghouls and every day that they slide further into obscurity and uselessness is a good day.
Did you dispute it? I would have.
@@StrokeMahEgo same
Old comment, but PayPal did something similar to me when I was ~13-14yo. I had an account to buy stuff on ebay (only used it once or twice) and then one day I get an email that my account was somehow negative $60+. I hadn't used the account in at least a year at this point so I just ignored it. They kept emailing me over and over for YEARS and at some point closed my account and set it to collections even though I wasn't even 18 yet.... Funny thing is a lot of the vital information about me that they needed to go through the collections process wasn't even my real information (because I'm smart and don't provide that stuff to random companies) so I never got any actual letters about it. I stopped using the email used to set up the PayPal account and just forgot it ever even happened, until a couple years ago when I went back and logged into that email account again and remembered what happened. I searched 'PayPal' in the search bar and saw that THEY WERE STILL EMAILING ME!! Idk if they ever gave up cause I haven't logged back in since then but by now it's been almost a decade since they falsely charged me and it would be REALLY funny if they are still trying to get that $60. Apparently I'm banned for life from using PayPal but I also have another account I made a few years ago when I needed to use PayPal for one transaction and that's still up lmfao
@@NotMe-ej9yz You should log back in again just to check, it would be hilarious if they were still hounding you for that measly 60 quid, because 60 quid from one person is such a hit to their financial situation.
I still don't understand how that legal anywhere giving that you pay upfront for the service.
If you don't pay them they shouldn't be able to just go ahead with the service and insist you pay anyway.
The contract hasn't been completed.
Remember when you bought software in a box with a license key, installed it, activated it once, and all the developer ever knew about you was that someone had purchased their software at some time in the past, and they left you the fuck alone because you hadn't given them your complete personal credentials and they didn't assume a right to behave like your ongoing business partners just because you bought their product once?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
🤣🤣🤣
The good old times 😢
OMG I remember when that used to be the case. Now all these companies want you to pay for there product every month FOREVER!
Those were the days, if only I’d understood then how good a value those softwares would actually become
I just kept my dad's computer keys for the reason. I am going to install office using them and Microsoft will be confused.
Subscription based is fantastic. It pushes people to find or develop free software that puts these vultures out of business.
I had to switch to UltraViewer. I used TeamViewer with a business I worked for in the past so they now think everything I do with TeamViewer is business related and refuse to let me use it unless I pay them money.
Facts, the gaming industry has been going through this for years already......
Exactly! It pushes people to investigate and learn what they wouldn't otherwise. It takes people away from their comfort zone. All to escape harrassment via ads.
I love capitalism. And this? This is peak capitalism. Don't like shit? Make own shit. Give shit away for goodwill. Sell other shit now that people know you do good work.
this happens all the time !!!
TeamViewer : *Treats Linus as a special case and tries their best to appease to him and get on his good grace*
Linus : *gets angrier*
TeamViewer : *shocked pikachu face*
😂
@@peckservers You german?
@SoapCanMan I guess Cody deleted their comment lololol
You have activated my trap card
"Strong moral standards"
This upset Linus and he flew into a rage
The teamviewer stock crashed this week. I guess it has nothing to do with Linus but with underperforming profits. Still a unfortunate coincidence.
The stock seemed to crash by October 6th. It was being shorted before, but that's when I saw the big cliff.
Linus' tweet was at October 6th, so I assume there is some causation there.
TIL that teamviewer has a ticker
Tbf stocks for most things are weird right now.
How powerful linus has become that he can tweet and tank companies stock.
@@exapsy "I assume there is some causation there" ... that is the exact opposite of how to correctly infer causation
Team viewer hit me with a "we've detected commerical activity on your account" then locked me out for some set amount of time while I was trying to remote into the computer connected to my 3D printer... in the same house. Uninstalled it from all my computers right after that and just jumped to chrome remote desktop. Probably never going back.
How would they detect that? How would they be allowed to detect anything on your system? If this tells you anything, that it tells you that they are possibly illegally spying on you. They must be reading your networks, scanning your devices and whatnot...... Is Team Viewer owned by Facebook?
@@marcfuchs6938 they have some bs algorithms and they monitor how frequently you connect to specific devices. Connect too frequently and you'll likely get canned very soon.
@@jothain Well, as I said, spying on you. Because they have no right to analyze your system in a way, that is not necessary for their service. But it doesn't matter, almost any company these days would screw you over at any time.
If you're in the same house and both computers are windows use RDP. Made the change once and never going back. Really easy to setup too.
@@marcfuchs6938 I fully agree on you there. Most corps just try to lure into usage and after honeymoon period the subscription bombing starts with removed features etc. Unfortunately very true.
Reminds me of the time I applied for a loan, I was refused due to bad credit. I was then bombarded for 6 months by the loan company with adverts offering me a loan. I called multiple times and sent multiple emails but they kept coming. I found this majorly frustrating as they refused to give me a loan yet still spammed me offering a service they won't get me. So I took to Twitter, called them out, and the tweet got like and shared enough for them to pay attention to it. They ended up compensating me financially, as they knew I had a harassment case against them, and that their harassment was now public.
So, always complain, and go to the length you need for them to listen.
"Tell us what you would pay?" Seriously?
"Hello, we want more of your money. Rob yourself for us."
You can always try -1000000 If the code is written poorly (which seems to be a trend these days), it may work
@@inwoner7190 Nice try but refunds are always through several hoops.
WE WANT A GIFT! BUT ONLY IF IT'S MONEY!
-John Mulaney
@@JayDee-b5u which doesn't exist. Unless maybe it's your banking app...
How much you will pay more to stop the harassment
the fact that teamviewers stock, started the year at 44 Euro and is now at 13 Euro, gives you a great example of how well their subscription model is doing...
That company is overvalued anyways.
@@Aereto all stocks are overvalued. It's what happens when people see it as an opportunity for free money.
@@bbbbbbb51 technically, stock value is the value of the loan (stock) for which the companies ability to pay dividends on which is what maintains a stock price. Really freaking weird system, but yeah
@@goldenhate6649 is that the reason why tesla (a e-vehicle producer whose cars are still in alpha/beta state) is more valuable than every automotive company together? I highly doubt it.
@@SirMactator tesla doesn't pay dividends therefore its value is thin air. Stocks that do pay dividends are more realistic in value.
This is the kind of stuff that my state attorney general loves to pursue. My state has an escalating scale of fines for companies that don’t comply with requests to be put on the do not contact list.
Mind if i ask which state? Im in PA. Might have to get residency there so I can give them a few leads. I've lost count of the solicitors that continue to harass me, its definitely in the double digits at this point. Most of them call me 4+ times a week, and the worst two call multiple times daily. I let it go to voicemail and they blow up my phone until i actually pick up. And yes, these are companies that need to comply to such standards, not some shady 3rd world scammer shit. Never really bothered to look into legal action regarding this issue before, just got used to it and accepted the fact that im gonna get hassled by these fuckers.
@@scumbaggo Washington State AG used to be very aggressive back in the day. However, any State AG should be happy to take this on. Also check out the US gov do not call website. There should be a report option on the website.
Door ittt
Yeah sounds like such an easy morning routine to rack up attorney cases. Like open and shut before your coffee.
"You have that customer? Closed answers only, yes or no. - Yes - Have he told you to put him on no contact list? - Yes - Did you contact him again? - ... yes - FINED! I'm off for a coffee and another star on my sleeve"
I love seeing Linus stick up for us common folk. His "wrong answer" response perfectly highlights a problem with pretty much all of the tech industry; appeasing the few with influence to try and lull them into a false sense of appreciation, and sometimes banking on that attempt to hopefully generate more favorable reception within the community of the influences. It's why I appreciate when he does the undercover thing when interacting with manufacturers, so when they treat him like a general customer instead of a tech community figure, he sees what most other people see, and has the experience they do.
This shit has got to stop. Trying to win favor by only catering to the popular minority isn't a victory, it's pathetic. Providers shouldn't be groveling at the feet of influencers, they should be groveling at the feet of all of their customers. Without them, you're worthless. You are only as good as you treat the people you provide products for.
Unfortunately there is no stopping, the world is going this way. Influence and money make up their own set of rules.
this is essentially the "china" mentality
@@alberto148 true
This isn't "common folk". Team viewer's target is enterprise IT
@@samuelclemens6841 so, enterprise IT is filled with fundamentally not common folk? lmao. yeah ok boomer.
Linus really did just wake up and say "I choose to destroy a company today"
savage
I love it
The thing is, Linus didn't destroy them. They destroyed themselves
@@DirtyLillNeo well yes
But he was so savage
As far as I know Teamviewer has a terrible reputation for years now. The sort of company everyone hates but still needs for one reason or another.
@@LegendaryCollektor twas quite savage indeed. And companies DEFINITELY need more people like him keeping them in line
@@SaHaRaSquad lol there was a point where they got hacked and intruders were able to remote access pcs 😭, haven’t used it since, even if that news was overblown I ain’t taking that risk
This subscription based business model is the reason why i go the extra mile for pirated software.
One used to be able to buy a copy of a software and own that copy for life. Now, we have installed software on our machines, occupying valuable memory, that will not work unless your license is up to date.
Again, i will move heaven and earth for a pirated copy rather than a subscription license. And software companies, like autodesk, can bit me for all i care.
We are all morally obligated to pirate Adobe, Autodesk and other such monopolies.
When subscriptions first appeared, it was actually pretty good. I think people forget that Photoshop used to cost close to $1000 a seat, and Maya was like $6000. So being able to get “pro” level software at a reasonable price was great.
It actually reduced piracy of these products.
@@zoeherriot It's as Gabe Newell said: "Piracy is a service issue."
If your product sucks, people will go to a different product, no matter the price. If all products suck or you're a monopoly, people will pirate.
@@dr.cheeze5382 it's more than just a service issue. ALL products will be pirated if they are available for download on day 1. Gabe is right for the baseline. But you still have considerable piracy even if you do everything right. You can have the best product, not be a monopoly and STILL have piracy issues.
There's no way around that. Because people can simply be jackasses. I've been working in AAA for 25 years now, and all to often gamers have very simplified models of how this works - which are wrong.
Yo-ho yo-ho! Pirates to save the day again!
Their response is so classic. They don't stop their shitty practices, they stop harassing the big name that's giving them bad PR. Reminds me of when one of his staff got banned from WoW for no reason and got ignored until he tweeted about it. Soulless corporations totally our of touch from reality, human decency and without conscience or morals.
Chinese communist owned businesses for you
@@resolvingparadox1388 lmao, china Is bad but all corp are evil
@@MM-ne4ne If communists were as good at manual labor as they are at writing paragraphs of what amounts to no substance then it probably wouldn't fail every time
@@MM-ne4ne To be fair, not everything you said is "facts". "Chinese Communist" is a totalitarian and dictatorial political party, not really a "population" in the way that something like a particular race would be. And making opinions based off trends in the environment is the very essence of democracy. It's why pure democracy cannot work. "Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting over what to have for lunch", aka tyranny of the majority.
@@martuuk8964 don't forget his 5 glorious social credit and family returned from reeducation camp
Think this may be the first time they mentioned lmg clips on lmg clips
But that's the title of the movie!
Clipception
M E T A
Yeah! I thought that was funny especially since I’m first watching this on LMG Clips 😂
@@sampettit0251 Same here xD
In Europe cold calling like that in the morning would be considered Illegal and if you told them before "STOP CALLING ME!" "STOP EMAILING ME!" "DO NOT CONTACT ME!" they're required by law to comply with your wishes. They've no reason to be harassing you and this is in fact harassment!
This isn't harassment by any legal definition and even if it was it doesn't apply to companies you do business with.
I don't know about Europe but if Europe is that way they're stupid.
@@RunicSigils It applies a;; companies we do business with or not! When you tell a company to delete your contact details and to stop calling you their implied right to bug the fuck out of you has been revoked. When somebody calls you once thats fine, If they call you again and you tell them to stop. you've voiced your right to privacy and for them to erase you from their contact list. continued phone calls would be considered harassment. If you don't consider cold calling harassment its likely because you've worked in a call centre and take part in such intrusive shit. Nothing stupid about giving the people rights to stop companies bugging them.
Yes but EU actually gives a shit about the people that live there. The US is an actual joke.
Still its annoying@@RunicSigils
@@RunicSigils "erm actually its stupid that a company you purchased a product from once can't ceaslessly pester you with emails and phone calls in the middle of the night" you are an idiot.
The move from perpetual licenses to subscriptions is TERRIBLE for most consumers. Yes there are niche situations where it's better, but overall it's massively exploitative.
It's a money grab. The user does not truly benefit, it's all about how to make more money for the company. You can argue that it gives them more money to further develop the product, but then again if they didn't develop the product properly then I'd just stop using it
The trouble with perpetual licenses is that you usually don't get any app updates longer than the normal subscription window. This might make sense to some, since you didn't pay for the newer version of the software but can still use the old version. But over time you end up with these ancient apps that are dated, slow, and make your computer less secure (bugs in code, inability to upgrade OS, etc.) Also, the company could always stop honoring their perpetual license customers and discontinue their old servers, which does happen.
This means you'll probably need to buy another perpetual license, effectively re-creating a subscription model but with less frequent payments. So while I also hate paying for subscription services, the move to that model feels inevitable.
All this fuss is why I always look for free and/or open source software whenever possible, and rarely have a need to buy software these days.
Agree and agree and agree.
Adobe photoshop switch to subscription. Its stupid. Very stupid
I personally disagree. I don't think it had to be an either/or situation. They should BOTH exist. Don't want an exorbitant upfront cost? Subscribe! Don't want to pay monthly or annually? Buy it. everyone's happy.
Perpetual licenses should be an option still at a reasonable price. I miss the old days of one purchase unlimited installations.
The price for a perpetual license isn’t even a difficult thing to sort out for a company like TeamViewer, but the problem usually stems from needing constant predictable income to satisfy investors and pay for new features (devs). For the b2b side it’s a little different, but generally speaking you calculate the average lifetime value of your customers, double it for profitable lifetime access.
@@Piktro yea, but that could be skewed very easily. If a company buys a perpetual license and 100 or so employees use it, it is gonna be way different than a 10 person team. Your math is off and investors don't want giant booms and long dry spells. They want constant increase.
@@randominternetguy3537 “it’s a little different for b2b”, “generally speaking”.
I was truncating for TH-cam, Mr. Businessman. I’m simply pointing out that for a company like TeamViewer, it would be easy to figure out the proper figures, and provided a crude example.
@@Piktro thats fair.
Perpetual licenses, when available, are usually priced in such a way for the product to be obsolete before you reach ROI (compared to subscription)
For instance, my current cad/cam software that i bought a perpetual license for. A perpetual license for 1 computer, without updates, costs the same as 15 years of subscription with the "frequent updates" add-on.
Sadly, i bought the perpetual license to be in a legal greyzone in regards to accessing the cracked version (which, with telemetry and drm removed, runs better on a core 2 quad than the normal edition does on a threadripper) that supports exporting to all other cad/cam programs
This reminds me of a credit card company and a health insurance company. My Dad died. I notified his credit card company and his health insurance company. They kept mailing and emailing him marketing stuff. I'd receive these marketing items, call them to tell them to stop, the person who I'd speak to would say they'd put him on a list/take him off a list and that it would stop....it didn't. It me several times of going over people's heads and posting to social media for it to stop.
"Im using your software to install other software"
*MS Edge cries in background*
Edge is the best browser on the market. You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to not use it.
Maybe I'm someone who loves chaos, but I use Google Chrome to install MS Edge Beta on my Linux machine.
For a reason, though. Chrome basically crashes my entire OS after opening the 6th tab without any way to escape. Somehow Edge didn't.
tbh, since edge started using chromium its alright
@@lilkittygirl How so?
Can you explain why it's "the best browser in the market"?
@@berkayuner funnily enough, I find it being the worst choice ever since it transitioned to chromium
And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why we love and trust Linus. He always calls out companies on their bullshit, no matter which company that is.
Yea this shit is weird when people like you type stuff like this
Cept tesla battery mine, fake ap
this is the worst comment I have ever read
@@ryansookram4023 people like me?
@@ryansookram4023 agreed, such brain dead comments.
There's a (not so rigorous) psychological term for what TeamViewer did: boundary destroying. They basically ignore and violate all of your interpersonal boundaries despite you explicitly telling them what not to do. If you ever meet a person who does this, do the grey rock technique (give the simplest, least interesting answers possible) until you can disengage and cut them out of your life.
I'd be inclined to punch them in the face, but there are laws against that.
I use that method all the time. I didn't know it was called the Grey rock technique though. Consider me educated!
There is an alternative grey rock technique that works even better: hit them with a grey rock till they stop being assholes
@@borismcqueen1959 Not sure if we're talking specifically about business relationships here or also personal ones, but It's much easier and healthier to just cut contact completely instead of playing games in most cases.
@@scumbaggo the grey rock method isn't a game, it's taking into account that many can't instantly cut someone out, especially in personal relationships and family situations. The method is more of a way to act in that"in between time" of realising you need to cut them out and doing so, in the safest way possible.
"It appears that absolutely everyone hates Teamviewer"
Not gonna lie; I assumed that this was common knowledge.
honestly
Truuue I got commercial use detected then I get kicked of the session so I switched to anydesk
I thought scammers loved it
I think Adobe are the only ones hated more than Teamviewer
@@anassbouallaga1922 Same :D... and because AnyDesk aren't a bunch of dicks, I ended up spending money with them :)
I have a lifetime Malwarebytes license, and they framed it as "we will honor old lifetime licenses and in-box keys" and have never given me a popup or ad.
This is exactly what should be happening. This should be the norm. It is expected. Anything less is highly shady.
Me, too. THANK you, Malwarebytes.
(...and EFF you, Teamviewer.)
Same here. They even still officially allow and facilitate license transfers of lifetime licenses. Friend of mine gave me one because he had a spare and I needed one for my laptop.
Same here.
never heard of malwarebytes before but holy fuck that just gave me respect for their business practices
Linus: gets what he wants
Also Linus: NOT GOOD ENOUGH! DO IT FOR EVERYONE!
*everyone liked that*
But they never did remove it from everyone
@@everythingpony and they didn't even remove it for Linus, either.
This was absolutely hilarious. Especially with the LMG Clips channel mention at the end!
very meta
Yo where can I find this channel? 🤔
It's even funnier if you aren't subbed and you get this in your recommended. I scrolled down and had a very funny "ah ha" moment.
Yeah...
Read more
@@overkill1340 Me too. So are they part of Linuses channel or not?
If your business model requires harassing your customer constantly to spend more money you need to rethink things hb
What's hb?
Seems to have worked for Spotify. It works so well other streaming companies do it now.
Nah, chinese mobile games seem to have nailed it with that business model.
I look at you, youtube premium
Welcome to capitalism, have some marketing
The issue is Linus is no longer their customer - their customers in their mind are people who continue to pay them money. Since they're not getting any money any more, you're basically dead to them.
They want him to either be a loss leader or become a customer again
Maybe it's time to stop communicating dead people then?
Under that logic the only correct move is piracy.
Very healthy business practices yeah.
But I would suggest something like: "we have encrypted your disk, call us and tell us how much would you pay for the password to unencrypt it"
If you are going to extort your own customers do it right.
(guiltylol)
It's decrypt man
Can't go so far that you risk angry customers with chainsaws in the lobby of your offices.
@@TimoRutanen Nah man, it's easy! For example, put your official corporate headquarters in the mail forwarding room of a Russian mafia-owned coworking space on Cyprus, and do your actual work from an undisclosed location in Belarus.
@@ReptilianLepton I feel like I don't need to point out the inherent risk involved in both those things you mentioned.
"I'm sure you thought you were making me happy, but what you actually did was demonstrate how terrible your business practices are *for everyone else*. Treating me special is just another way of saying that you don't treat your customers like you should. Because, if you know it's the right thing to do, and you'll do it for me, then you should automatically do it for everyone. That simple"
Yes. It truly is that simple, and I love to see this response from Linus. The correct answer is to be a better company. Not to try to make someone who points out bad business practices just a little happier. If they're willing to thrust this into the public, then a quick and private "here you go" type solution isn't really going to do much to help your publicity as a company. Way to go Linus, much respect for your response to this "resolution" that they provided!
"And what sort of resolution did we get? One that is supported by our sponsor, _____!" 😋
full on daddy linus mode. 100% on board with it.
I bought 10 licenses of TeamViewer and have the EXACT same story as you. It's so frustrating. Thank you for using your playform to bring awareness of the ridiculous actions of TeamViewer. I hope they stop harassing me because of your words.
sorry to say but the video was already months old before this comment, have they stopped in the last 3 months?
I can't wait for this to blow up even more. *grabs popcorn*
I can hear the kernels shaking xD
Same
I think the phrase you're looking for is "dis gon b gud"
@@komenisai yes 😂😂😂 I was thinking the exact same thing 😂😂 lmao
how could it possibly blow up more? they have no recourse for coming back at linus. they could sue him for libel but since everything he said was factually true it'd be another slam dunk win for linus.
Stuff like this is why pirates will always be a thing. Patching out this kind of stuff alone will keep it alive.
^^^^^^. Sadly as long as their are evil companies around. Pirates and the monder Iron Monkey will be around. A lot of the top people in a company do that. Adobe and Autodesk anyone? SolidWorks and MS are top picks to. A company can ask for 5k every however many months. and a dragon metal lock for security. They might not get that though. A good chance if you know or are a pirate the response is pronounced: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know for fact NASA and the NSA pirates stuff. A a company trying to take on either of those would do just as well taking on a world boss solol, while it's current. They can try...they'll do horribly, but they can try.
@@gorkskoal9315 ah yes. Those are definitely words.
@@NoelAWinslow You sir just made my day lol!
Probably not the brightest idea to use a cracked/pirated version of a remote access software.
@@JayMaverick it's the middle choice. Should you use something open source instead? Yes. But should you use the default corporate shitware version instead? Fuck no.
TeamViewer is so annoying that even scam call centers have switched their software.
what do they use now?
@@jake9107anydesk iirc
@@jake9107 usually AnyDesk
@@jake9107AnyDesk
No, they stopped using TeamViewer because they banned all IP addresses coming from India.
This is one reason why I love Linus. Despite his media presence and the influence he holds in the tech world, the fact that he has always questioned whether he's getting preferential treatment is refreshing to see. You are an honest person Linus and thank you very much for helping us be better people too.
Honest but also perceptive, which is important.
Cisco is pulling the same kind of bullshit with a security appliance that we bought with perpetual device licenses 2 1/2 years ago:
Oh, you want to update your software to a non-deprecated version? Sure, but we'll convert all your stupidly expensive perpetual licenses to 3 year ones. Of course you can stick with your ancient software version but it won't work with more recent hardware and of course we're not going to give you any support with it, either.
And their smart licensing is just as terrible. I'm just waiting for them to hold our company network ransom, can't be long now...
Hopefully the fineprint on the perpetual contract did not state something like 'for this/the current version'. If it does well you are screwed because you are getting what you pay for.
If it doesn't a letter from a renowned lawfirm should be step one.
" non-deprecated version"
Excuse me what is this? What car company, that leases you the vehicle for thousands of dollars, then keeps giving you revisions? Why is it that all these "service model" naysayers STILL want a damn continuous service? Free oil change for life? Did you want a WYSIWYG package or NOT?
Even the main issue here, these solicitations, obviously they WILL keep calling because your old perpetual license was not build compatible with the FUTURE technology of their current database, to your immense surprise no doubt. It's like you reserved a VIP booth from the restaurant's OLD wing that's up for demolition, and get OFFENDED that the marketing dept. allows some flyers about the new system to even be visible from there. The reason they now have a subscription model is BECAUSE people keep demanding their damn free refills, because the subscription model WON the competition over what the market will demand. JUST ignore the damn calls. If you're wondering how getting wolf whistled feels like, this is it. Some women DEMAND it so everyone has to live with it.
It would be nice if they could just buy some server somewhere, leave it running forever and have it stay in place like mt. rushmore, but that's not exactly how things work in cyberspace. You might consider it your "right" if you just copypaste your morals from real world anecdotes, but this will not WORK in cyberspace, that's the problem. They can put up a post-it note on EVERY perpetual plan licenser saying "don't call this number", "influencer" or not, but it will just get trashed again by the next hapless employee whose only job is to ASK to upgrade.
This is why i pirate.
@@zoinksscoob6523 same
@survivi noice
i absolutely love how linus can lose his patience after A LOT. of provocation, drop a 5 min comment and just devastate a tech company :) love that he brings these problems up and deals with them openly.
Reminds me of the time Verizon charged someone 100 times what they thought a month's worth of international data would cost, because their customer service reps don't know the difference between a dollar and a cent (specifically they read "$0.02" as "0.02 cents," which is mathematically equivalent to saying 1=100).
He demanded that the bill be adjusted to the number he was quoted, in effect a 99% refund. They ultimately just canceled the entire bill for that month, never at any point admitting they even understood what the mistake was, or trying to train their employees how to read numbers correctly. They just wanted to shut up the one person who was being loud enough, and couldn't care less who fell into the same trap but didn't feel like starting a blog about it.
This doesn't make sense. It's the other way around. 0.02 cents is a hundred times LESS than 0.02 dollars, not more. So the mathematical equivalent of 100=1. He should have been charged next to nothing for the data.
@@williamfowl8670 Exactly, there was another zero too:
th-cam.com/video/MShv_74FNWU/w-d-xo.html
@@williamfowl8670 I think that is the point.
Was told it would cost 0.02 cents (which is $0.0002).
The bill charged him $0.02 (which is what the rep was meant to say).
Therefore was charged 100 times more than he was told he would be charged.
Or their staff being too lazy to open one of the MANY currency converters available for F R E E and the process taking like two seconds per conversion is astounding.
@@williamfowl8670 (100=1)=(1=100)
Bang on the money. The solution isn't a "disable notifications" fix, it's addressing the root problem: that of paid users being asked for more money, and it's an issue happening across many services.
"Security through obscurity hopefully knock on wood" - aged like milk :(
Thank you! When I heard they put you on their list, my *immediate* thought was "what about everyone else who doesn't have 10 million viewers?" We appreciate that you recognize the problem with their response.
9:15 This is what I like about Linus. Even though he has so much influence, he still cares for the customers who buy products and doesn't give in to the corporate greed that so many companies have nowadays. Thanks Linus!
If I were a big tech corporation right now, I’d be REALLY concerned about LTT Labs. Given Linus’ penchant for honesty and calling companies on their bullshit, some of Labs’ test results are going to be… jarring.
What upsets me the most about this is that they must‘ve added these „in-product marketing messages“ in the subscription version (Otherwise there wouldn’t be a new checkbox)
So that means even if you give in and buy their subscription, they‘re still going to send you these messages, because you’re apparently not giving them enough money yet.
Wow.
Teamviewer: Tell us what you'll pay for a subscription and stretch the rest of your 2021 budget.
Perpetual license users: We'll not pay for a subscription and stretch the rest of our budget for eternity.
Worryingly, what do they mean by stretch the budget the rest of the year?
@@Greatanotherchannel they apparently mean they are going to stretch your budget into their bank account
TeamViewer shrink your budget!!
@greatanotherchannel companies have a set budget for various expenses that they should not exceed every period else that cuts into their profits. “Stretching a budget” means that you are trying to Tetris in your costs so that you can get as much value as possible for your expenses, especially if you are starting to run low on money as you approach the end of the period. Looking for sales rather than pay full price, downgrading a subscription to a lower tier, and doing name-your-price offers are ways to stretch your budget.
@@Roccondil ironically none of these are offered for a product going the SaaS route. Also it adds so much overhead to the bean counters they start offloading it related finances for it to sort out, take a guess to how that turns out. My actual drive to get rid of much of useless monthly payment SaaS is to lighten my load, is it enough to provide support and wrestling server issues but I'm also to request and file invoices? I'll take a Free as French Revolution approach to that. Next time TV call us will be forwarded to legal to file a restraining order.
Love that top reply: Linus woke up and chose violence
In reality, the violence was brewing and this was just the tipping point.
Linus was rudely woken up every early morning. Violence is the only real option.
Sometimes, violence is the only reasonable choice.
The violence was inherent in the system !
Well, if I'm an influencer and some company called me at 5am I'll choose violence too.
@@DisplayLine6.13.9 "Help help, I'm being repressed!"
9:22 RIGHT! They should have disabled it for EVERYONE!
Luke's last little jab, "You might already be subscribed to LMG Clips, but you might not be a member"
Lol!!🤣🤣
"jab" guess we just throwing words out here and assuming their meaning.
@@nom6758 no the word is used correctly. Luke's remark is a jab at TeamViewer.
@@nom6758 nice try bruh
Considering how for years teamviewers business model revolved partly around enabling scammers.. I can't say I'm surprised
I watch more scambait youtubers than tech youtubers, literally didn’t know it was a widespread software with a market BEYOND scammers 💀
I have no idea why in the world TeamViewer isn't separated into client software and server software. If you want just "remove control some other PC", too bad, you automatically also get "remote control my PC by someone else". PLUS it's working in the background by default! What a "secure" way to do things.
what did they do?
Don't forget the good old 4chan livestream raids, the amount of kids bricking their parents computers is almost as sad as it is hilarious
@@mrosskne TeamViewer had a free tier for non commercial use so small time phone scammers used it to get onto peoples machines. As the scammers got more organized they started buying licences and TeamViewer did little to cut them off and took years to put notices in their software to warn scam targets, and users in general, that they might be scammed and that they were giving control of their computer to the scammers.
“Can you go after them for [that]?”
“I can but it’s not worth the effort”
“Yeah” looks at camera “someone could though”
I like this guy.
I thought I was the only one who caught that lol
I love the way Linus said "wrong answer". Thank you for being a man of true integrity, Linus!
My 5 year old niece knows about you because I've shown her some of LTT. She walked up behind me while I was wearing headphones, watched for a minute, stated "Linus is upset" loudly, then walked away. Very astute, child, very astute.
linus was in full on pissed off daddy mode today so yeah, astute girl you got there =D
That is amazing, both in the manner of that being hilarious, and your child picking up on that. Could she have heard anything through your headphones?
Apparently, your 5yo niece can read the room better than whoever at Teamviwer made the call to raise standards to the minimum for just one customer 😂
@@absolarix Maybe she read his face and picked up the emotion that way.
There isn't a single reason I can think of when you "upgrade" to subscription over perpetual you already paid for. This is definitely, without a shed of a doubt, a "downgrade".
All the companies are doing this, we got screwed out at least a million dollars, because the vendor "end of lifed" our licenses
Too many just want easy money.
Earning money by ripping off others would make me feel worse than living off of government welfare
"No, this is not a scam! We never said that 'lifetime license' refers to _your_ lifetime, see?"
@@LRM12o8 They never specified what species they referred to.
Think, Mark! Think!
8:14 "big egg, big œuf" right when I forgot his Canadianess, Linus drops that perfect joke! I nearly spilled my coffee 😂
Lol I think it was coincidence. Probably just big oof
@@HotdogSosage No, he said egg in French purposely lol As a fellow Canadian, there is no Canadian accent that would have you pronounce egg as œuf lol
off* off*
I know a 99th of fuck all about computers but I can't stop watching LTT. I watch purely for the cast and to see them happy and succeeding. They remind me of my own nerdy mates.
Teamviewer: Tell us what you'll pay.
Rogueamp: point 7 dollar
I miss rogueamp
@@walllable Yeah, I miss him too. Hope he's doing alright for himself..
i just don't use any subscription software. the moment they stop offering one-time purchases is the moment i look elsewhere for an alternative. plenty of free open source programs nowadays, you don't NEED to pay for anything. i'd rather donate to those projects instead.
70 cents sounds like a fair market price for this software
I go chop your dollar
Very well said, I'm glad you guys talked about this. It's an issue that's very very infuriating, and considering how prominent it is in the industry, it's one of the main reasons I try to use open source software.
When's the "TeamViewer alternatives" video coming out on the main channel? I personally can't wait.
There’s so many great young competitors now and it’s about time!!!
Check parsec out. Found out to be better than anything else
@@harshbansal85 lol which is what he was trying to set up sounds like. I get the impression homey likes to make things a headache for himself...because, him. I used a neet one called squak at work
I would think if there's a good alternative he would have already used it
Apache Guacamole, probably
This. This is why I love LTT and why I support them. Because if Linus gets mad because he is not being treated special, and then finds out they know who he is....and "rectify it" so he is treated specially, he gets madder that others are being left out
Thanks Captain Obvious
I always love to look back on this video as this is one rare times a company was brought to its knees by a well-known TH-camr
We had a perpetual license for TV 9, earlier last year they decided to suspend service for those versions. After many companies cried out about this (especially because it's a legal grey area), they decided to upgrade old license to TV 15 for 5 years. We plain on switching to AnyDesk at that point.
Last place I worked we had a perpetual license too. They literally called us one day telling us we should consider upgrading to 14 I think. I of course said we were happy with our current version but thanks for the offer. Less than 24 hours later our license was suddenly just invalid.
@@Falcodrin This incentivises piracy.
@@Subuzgreatest they know businesses typically won't pirate because of legal issues. So they abuse their customers.
@@Falcodrin I guess the only way to beat them is to go FOSS completely.
You could sue them on the grounds that "perpetual means perpetual"
7:43 I'm dying. Not as hard as TeamViewer stock after this, but I'm dying
I didn't know they were traded publicly until I read this. I looked up their history and saw that their stock took a nosedive right around the time this happened and laughed hysterically. 0 remorse for companies like this. Sucks to suck
As a software engineer, I started thinking through how I'd implement subscriptions moving away from licenses with outstanding perpetual licenses. I settled almost instantly on creating permanent subscription records for those customers with no expiration with a special flag that lets me know to ignore them when processing payments and reject things like cancellation requests. I was shocked by the end of this story when they decided to do something to fix a single customer, when my immediate gut reaction was to implement a solution for all perpetual licenses. I can't comprehend how this is someone's solution.
Really, you just need the software to have a boolean for "is already paying us money" and stfu if true.
Crappy business practices have become so widespread. So glad to see Linus fighting companies who don't care at all about their customers.
I'm still upset you didn't name this channel Linus Tech Clips.
Teamviewer also no longer offers a free version for non-commercial users. They SAY they do, but as soon as you try to log in, it locks itself out and forces you to buy a license. When you contact customer support, they send you a reset link that doesn't do anything. I haven't been able to use Teamviewer for three years, now, after having an account for well over a decade.
Absolute garbage.
This is how I feel about Adobe, especially when they cancelled my purchased copy of CS6, and forced me onto the subscription I didn't want or need.
They did WHAT?!? :O How on earth is that legal?
@@asdfhun "free market"
Adobe kills me because it’s the software I’d prefer to be using but I’d rather headbutt a belt sander than pay for a subscription
Its morally correct to pirate adobe products
@@OCtheG The only sensible option here is to join the pirates
Linus really didn't let his position in the world get to him. Any strings he pulls are a means to a genuine end and it's a rare but good thing in the world we now live. Keep it up buddy, you're a good man.
fun fact : if you asked to be put on a do not call list/iDNC and the company continues to call you, you can sue the company and will win. i’ve had multiple call center jobs and they’ve all said that same thing. if they ask not to be called again, DO NOT CALL THEM AGAIN. its one of the big no no’s
Probably my favorite episode anyone from LTT or LMG has made so far, I love it when Linus gets angry for all the right reasons
Last year Linus went HAM against nVidia when they blackmailed a fellow youtuber for focusing on the rasterization capabilities of their 3000 series GPU, it was glorious.
@@Djou-Karl I remember that and they had the whole youtube tech community behind them for the most part. Definitely another great Linus moment
Gave up on Teamviewer a while ago. Anydesk works just as good and doesn't harrass you.
And what is up with that modern art where the cartoons have microcephalic heads (which I see Teamviewer uses)? It's gross, kind of like Tumbler nose. They should combine the two and see how repulsive they can get.
Corporate "art design" is horrendous. They use the same design language at Facebook and Google too. All these grotesque looking small head, big bodied characters with blank stares plastered everywhere.
I’d honestly would like to see a company use stick figure made in ms pained by a bored high schooler. It’d be better Than what they have now.
Solar Sands did a good video on why corporate art feels fake, worth a watch when you get some time
th-cam.com/video/lFb7BOI_QFc/w-d-xo.html
@@deanchur I really liked that video. Thanks for linking it!
@@reywashere5284 No worries, glad you enjoyed it
Can we all just just notice that the top comment on the screenshot (6:20) says: "damn...linus woke up and chose violence"? 😂🤣
Linus at 5am, picks up phone:
Phone: HELLO IVE BEEN TRYING TO REACH YOU ABIUT YOUR TEAMVIEWER EXTENDED WARRENTY
LMAOOO
10:11 and this is why we love and trust you linus. Integrity first! As a fellow business operator I try to follow the same rules.
They legit blocked me from finishing my proposal to my wife on my home PC (had to remote during lunch because of work crunch, almost didn't make it in time too) due to "commercial use" and tried to force me to buy an overpriced subscription. Support basically said "pay us or fuck off".
I wouldn't use that shit again if they PAID ME to use it. I only use it when I have to remote assist someone too dense to use a proper remote desktop/vnc.
I wonder if it's time for them to get some competition, how much could the backend server cost when the whole process is a few packets before becoming P2P? Especially since there are open, secure VNC FOSS projects that would be comparable if not for the clunky setup process...
Why would you use such a convoluted method to write something so important when Google Docs is a thing. Or literally Pages on an iPad. lol
I love how savage Linus gets when it comes to integrity. Gives me the biggest warm and fuzzies.
"stretch the rest of your 2021 budget" really bugs me. It sounds so desperate. The word "stretch" implies my organization is already capital restricted and allocated but why not spend more than we are comfortable with to pay for this thing that should not cost us anymore. Terrible message.
From one Canadian to another - you literally are the best thing about TH-cam. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your moral compass and the level of candidness.
This is by far my favorite "I'm not gonna show that i'm furiously angry" Linus moment.
Our company also owns a perpetual Teamviewer 12 license. The amount of emails I get to please change to a newer version aka subscription is very high. The best part is that these mails are not personalized so it is just "hello" without my name but they are made to look loke a person wrote them. Since I did Not answer their emails they started to try other email adresses in the company
I dropped them from my go to list of helpful programs after they swapped to a subscription model and pretty much dropped free use. That was fine for simple, small remote connections that I needed occasionally, but I don't use them enough to warrant the high cost and annoyance of their software, especially now. There are other options out there that do what I need to do.
The same reason why I would not support nor recommend Adobe products unless someone wants a permanent net loss in their balance.
"Hey USER we've done something you didn't ask for to your software"
"Ok" or *"Not now"*
notice how *No* is never an option with these tech companies?
Here's a lesson to Tydal when they were reactivating user accounts with supposed deleted credit card info. In my case as I am a nobody, it was a "you did it" (which I clearly did not) and for more public people it was a "We are a sorry this happened to you, here, take your money back and get this one year/six months free, on us". I had to spend hours back and forth with my credit card operator trying to explain the mess.
Now I don't recommend Tydal for anyone as apparently they keep your credit card info even if you removed it from your account and they don't know how those accounts were reactivated...
Anydesk for all your needs folks. And idk why my comment got removed just talking about a option that exists out there.
This one is visible
Could have been an error, could be lost. Seen quite a few recommending alternatives, so I doubt it was intentionally removed.
Steam Link is my preferred way to play games remotely. You can even setup non steam games to run with it
Yeah, steam link is great. The perfect combo would be to put steam on a headless linux machine, then remote into it from your phone, TV, etc. using steam link... except that running steam link on linux is buggy as hell ironically.
@@seeibe Would that even work? Steam Link streams your screen which I assume requires screen capture, which in turns requires a screen (an XServer), so running it headless shouldn't work (?).
@@dwirandypradhika6752 you are correct!
Edit: I actually use steam link to stream my desktop for productivity more than I use it to play games :O
@@dwirandypradhika6752 Virtual monitors are a thing. In the worst case you can get one of those fake monitor attachments that are also used for mining. For me it worked to just attach a monitor temporarily and then unplug it, but I didn't get further than that because of the bugs with steam itself (that were present even with a monitor connected).
Doesn't work on windows 11 at least with the ipad
"Security through obscurity, knock on wood"
Ooof. That didn't age well.
What happened?
@@momouppatheir channels got hacked by elon musk crypto scammers
luke's " someone could though" with the stare at the camera had me completely dead laughing
Until very recently I was a complaints lead, hearing team viewers response gave me flashbacks to meetings with leadership around influencer issues
Reminds me of GameSpy Arcade. I had bought GameSpy 3D, which was amazing, and when they launched a new version - GameSpy Arcade, I went ahead and bought the lifetime license of it. Well, after a bit, they went to a subscription model. And they would frequently send me an email begging me to switch my lifetime license to a 1 year subscription to three of their products - two that I had lifetime and the third I didn't care about. And this went on for significantly longer than 3 years. Why would ANYONE agree to take their lifetime license into a limited license? The companies just do not get the message.
"Someone could though" *Looks directly into the soul of someone with a perpetual license*
Lmao glad someone else noticed. Hope someone with a perpetual license notices too ;)
Would need to be a class action to get any real payout, otherwise lawyers fees would be higher. Probably arent enough people who actually care about spam emails.
@@PalladinPoker then again some lawyers make it so they actually charge the defendent if they win.
This is a prime example of when a "tech" company is actually actually a shitty sales company overloaded with MBA's.
You mean ALL companies?
That's the problem with capitalism. Everybody's so obsessed with making money that they fall to do their damn job properly
At least under capitalism you would have this kind of tech available in the first place, lmao.
@@aznhomig which is a great argument against challenging anything ever, amirite
@@aznhomigcentral planning doesn't preclude the development of tech. You people and your ideology.
That "someone could though" while looking in to the camera was such a funny look
Reminds me when my parents had a old license for adobe software, at one point there was a notification saying it was an “illegal” license and needed to get subscription to keep using adobe
My guess is that your computer got a virus at one point where the serial for your photoshop license got scraped along with whatever the script it launched looked for, or Adobe was just being greedy as usual
@@kanesmith8271 adobe being greedy and trying to force people onto their subscription service. cashing in all that built-up goodwill I guess.
Luke's face at 9:55 is priceless!! "...Someone could though..."
America needs their version of GDPR, CanSpam is not enough and you know it. They shouldn't be able to contact you if you don't want them to. Period.
"it's not worth the effort" is how millionaires and other shitty companies take advantage of us poors who don't have a lawyer on retainer and infinite money to burn that we can write off on taxes as a "business loss" so it somehow counts towards bettering the world around you.
My public lottery dream is to ruin terrible companies that take advantage of people who simply cannot afford not to get screwed.
A noble dream indeed
The answer to this is already in place: leave bad reviews. If everyone that is screwed over leaves a scathing review the company will eventually fold because nobody trusts them anymore.
Hey man that’s good hopefully you reach your dreams to get their, best wishes to you
@@spoofer44 Ok but what stops them from deleting said negative reviews? How do you prevent a company from buying people to leave positive reviews? Or using bots to make it look like a bunch of people are happy with product and recommend it? People's opinions matter when the system isn't corrupt and mired by corporate/political interest who throw a lot of money to hide problems under the rug and have things their way...
You need a "General Data Protection Regulation" in North America for customers like we have in EU Countries. With that they need your consent in the first place for keeping your personal data for marketing bs. You have the right to be forgotten and it´s always opt out by default. It´s a real sharp sword for customers against these giant companies giving a *** about your data, punishment is real they sue whatsapp for 225€ Million.
Aren't like a bunch of options on those pages not even able to be turned off?
@@doctorhealsgood5456 No, only "functional" cookies / options are allowed not be turned off. And "Marketing" is not functional. Functional means you need that to use the site or product like safety cookies or user profile data. Besides that there is also the regular law. And putting you on a marketing list is only allowed if you showed explicit interest (signed up for product news) or you are corporation who used similar products - at least here in Germany.
Subscription models piss me the off. Either let me buy what I want in perpetuity or I will go find it elsewhere, either by chosing another company's product or finding a cough workaround for yours. It's as simple as that.