Thanks so much for the feature on taking on Imogene Pass! What an incredible experience with a dream team of travel companions. I know that without being able to monitor my transmission temps with the Scangauge II and keep my CVT cooled with the Mishimoto transmission cooler, I wouldn't have been able to climb that steep, long trail as successfully as I did. I realize how much of a difference the custom high-clearance bumper made in approaching obstacles, and that the TORQ locker was absolutely critical for maintaining traction and tackling those tough obstacles especially at such high elevations. I'm grateful for the support from Wagan Tech, TORQ Masters, BF Goodrich Tires, Diode Dynamics, Prinsu Design Studio, RalliTEK Performance, Overland Trail Guides, MACC Creations, Scrubblade Wiper Blades, and NickGyver Enterprises. Follow our Rebelle Rally Team #204 this October! We're one (if not the only?!) Subaru competing and we'd love for you to cheer us on. Check out MtnSubi.com or the link in our Instagram bio for ways to support us. There will be live broadcasts on the Rebelle Rally Facebook/Instagram/TH-cam pages and you can even track us live during competition to see if we found our checkpoint!
I'm more impressed that the guy in the F-150 with street tires made it! I was up there last week and saw a lady in a stock Subaru Outback on Hurricane pass coming down into Animas Forks. That wasn't a sight I expected to see. I'm not a Subaru fan, but I respect them a little more now on the Trail. Good job guys!
Thats so awesome that she wasn't left behind. I was rooting for her the whole way. The end brought me to tears! What an awesome group! This is what life is about, bravo y'all!!
I’ve heard of other Subarus making it up. The legacy wagons of old or the brat have probably made it up before TH-cam was a thing, but there’s literally no other TH-cam videos of a Subaru attempting to climb Imogene Pass. Carey has laid the ground work for what would be needed and set the bar for sure! Looking forward to other creators to video document a 100% unassisted attempt.
I definitely learned a lot about the effects of altitude on my vehicle both from watching it happen, and from the group of knowledgeable people on the trip that shared information and thoughts about it. Can’t wait to learn more and perhaps do another attempt with some key adjustments. Either way, it was an incredible trip!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring lol if that was the only thing, I would have been there, but a close relative had lost their job at the beginning of June so I was helping them out financially, but now they're back on the workforce! And since I've got almost a year to prepare, I'll definitely be there next year, that's for sure!
Excellent film! Beautiful scenery. A good demonstration of teamwork =) That one obstacle in which it seemed like Carey would not complete but then completed was epic and provided great drama for the film. This is why I continue to support your endeavors Jon and recommend your channel anyone that mentions overlanding.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I did not, to be fair I did not explore much as I was on a semi time constraint with a toddler and infant in the car. Cool spot for lunch though, we ended up having a picnic in Telluride and then dinner at a restaurant. Super busy weekend in Telluride as they had the film festival going on.
I did Imogene couple years ago and the altitude on the engine was no joke lol. My Jeep is supercharged and felt like I had only 5 hp till boost kicks in. Great video! Looked like a lot of fun :)
You did a great job on this film, very interesting subject matter. Way more interesting than the content of some of the bigger Overlanding channels such as TrailRecon. I never would have guessed the loss of power from elevation would have ended up being the issue. The Subaru did amazing. Had no idea you could get a lunch box locker for a Subaru .......... awesome, ....... Im a huge Subaru fan !!!
We did Imogene Pass in our VW off road bug in 2018. Never had any issues. It is a little scary but traction was never and issue even though we only had at the time 100hp no Fuel injection and 2wd and open differential.
I wish I met you there. I was just there 2 days ago, after traveling 2000+ miles from Carolina. We also did Black Bear Pass in the morning, followed by Imogene in the pm.
Sounds like an epic trip! We visited from July 11 to the 15th. The more I watch videos of black bear, the more I’m warming up to the idea of doing it 🤣. I’m still scared though 😱. Did you do any other trails? Clear lake was a nice place to visit. We also did corkscrew pass. I’d like to do engineer pass and the easier part of porchkeepsie gulch.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Sadly we did not have time to do engineer and ophir. Definitely will come back when there’s a chance. Ouray and Telluride both have good restaurants.
@@xplorefurther Silverton is pretty awesome too. There’s a giant network of trails on the eastern side of the million dollar highway. Lots of cool lakes. I still have a few more episodes to make.
That Subaru has the power to do the job. That Jeep Renegade must have made it. I like the Subaru but I like a manual shift transmission. I bet if she had a manual shift, a 6 speed, her low gear would have taken that with no problem. She has the CVT and then the computer combined holding her back. These car are very capable. I had a lifter Forester with the manual shift. It would never big down in first gear. Oh, and thanks for sharing. Love these videos
Video documenting this whole attempt is what I set out to do 😃, thanks for watching. I included everything important including coming across the bone stock Jeep renegade Trailhawk. They have the German made ZF9 automatic transmission and a 21.5:1 crawl ratio. I’ve heard of older 1st Gen Subaru foresters make it up (with 4.44 differentials), which might be possible if they don’t carry much gear and Jeep the power to weight ratio as high as possible. The old forester with 4.44 gears only has a 13:1 crawl ratio, but it has the 4EAT. The CVT Subaru in this video has a 14:1 crawl ratio, but even with a light loadout, the vehicle will still weigh a good 4200 lbs. compared to a 2700 lb. 1st Gen Forester.
As a Subaru owner I think an issue with its offroad ability is one that is often overlooked. It's the power band. The torque does not come on until the mid RPM range which is too high if you need it for slower obstacles or elevations. I believe this also puts added stress on the CVT. It is fine for rally driving but not for true off road. With today's variable valve timing and direct injection engines some of this to a small degree can be overcome if the manufactures would build in additional tuning options. My Forester does come with a "sport mode" so I know this is possible.
You bring up good points Alan. With the wilderness models, Subaru has made the gearing a little bit more aggressive for more low end torque. The 2019+ SK Foresters are a perfect example. They have the same engine, but the base model has a 13.3:1 crawl ratio, where as the Wilderness has a 16.7:1. I wonder if Subaru would ever be able to do a "crawler gear ratio", where it can only be accessed if a special button is pressed.
Dual Range transfer cases are available if you are super serious Subie owner. I’ve ridden up Imogene on my KTM 690 Loaded with 80 liters of luggage a few years ago. Good times.
@@RagingBad Why? If you want to build something different then build something different. There is obviously a market otherwise companies would not be building the parts. I own two Jeeps so I have gone the conventional route…but that is not for everyone.
another great video! Makes me feel lazy for not getting out there and hitting some trails. Seeing all those AWDs must have surprised the hardcore 4x4 drivers out there!
We get out when we can. I only started doing this a couple years ago, so don’t feel lazy; you’re doing other important things fs. Yeah, we had a few folks cheering us all on while on the trail! It was pretty cool.
I drove in the rain in bumper to bumper traffic today. Was equally dangerous. Saw a rear sighting as well. There was BMW, and it used a turn signal. I took a picture, I'm still in awe.
Great stuff Jon and Team. Special shout out to Carey for taking it to the Limit! Someday I will hit this trail, but not so sure it'll be in my 6th Gen Outback...lol
Thanks Sashi 🙏. I wish I could spend another day up there. We were thinking of camping up there, but decided to descend since no one was driving up anymore. We saw a huge influx of traffic in the morning
As a person that ran over Imogene pass last September in the IPR ( Imogene pass run) I take umbrage with y’all using the word running it in a car 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love seeing some 4th gen Outback love! 💪I follow her on insta so it was awesome to see the build in action. Now I wanna know how my 3.6R would climb at that elevation. It is quite a bit more powerful than the 2.5 outback and no cvt either.
Very cool video :) But I must ask, why pick the crappy CVT transmission? The manual box offered a dual range with shorter ratios on demand. Maybe you didn't get those in the US?
Awesome video! What a great adventure with like minded people. So awesome to see a 4th gen OB out there representing too! You all did great! I wonder how my 3.6/5eat would fair at that high of an elevation though... I definitely need to visit CO sometime!!
Thanks Man! Colorado is an amazing place! I’d be interested to find out too! Some of the 1st Gen Forester guys say they’ve been able to make it up imogene without too much issue, it’s just too hard to believe things unless you see it on video, but go search for “Subaru Redcone” which is a really difficult trail. There’s a SG forester with a torq locker that gets through some of that stuff, and that’s a really tough trail. The peak is 12.8K.
Did Imogene on 7/25/22 - th-cam.com/video/n7Kf90VnB4w/w-d-xo.html. Saw a couple Subaru’s and WAY too many street-only SUV’s. Like Black Bear, that trail is relatively easy for any slightly lifted 4x4. But it’s NOT for the faint of heart, inexperienced or easily distracted. Before starting, remind yourself that going over any of those spectacular drop offs would be terminal. Then go have an awesome ride!
Did you see them at the top? A lot of AWDs have mentioned they could not get to the top. If you read the comment section, you’ll see many have tried and had the same fate as our friend Carey. With that said, it’s definitely advisable for AWDs to not attempt without 4WD support and a good plan! You encountered a lot of traffic, we did as well. A stuck vehicle will really complicate high traffic situations. This is one of the reasons I make videos, so my fellow adventurers can better decide if they want to attempt or not. I checked out your video, but didn’t see any Subarus in it.
Did 2nd Imogene E to W, Ouray to Telluride a week later. That vid out in a week or two. When I get it put together, it would be interesting to compare same direction trail with yours. Spent past two Summers wheeling the San Juan’s & have seen Subaru’s on both big name trails & secondary’s. Remember seeing two, part way up at Tomboy mine, but they could’ve been a Teluride out & back. I do not recall seeing any at the top, on either run. Found your vid to be interesting. Sections that didn’t even register on our “difficulty needle”, were a really big deal for your group. Did both ways solo so traffic easier to contend with.
@@NoGasWelcomeAboard Imogene wasn’t difficult for the Hondas either, it’s just that this trail is rated moderate difficulty, Jeep badge of honor rates it as such, and it would be irresponsible for me to downplay trail difficulty. As mentioned in both my videos about Imogene pass, the biggest danger is coming across oncoming traffic on these narrow shelf roads.
is MtnSubi a 2.4 turbo 3.6r or 2.5? the exhaust sounds nice. I won a 18 3.6r, would that be a better fir for this trip? i represent MtnRoo Phoenix area.....
She has a 2010 2.5. While power plant might make a difference, it’s really gearing that makes the most. A 1.3L 67HP Suzuki Samurai would drive up this because it has 4LO. In 2021 we had two 250 Hp, 3.5L V6 Honda Pilots, and they couldn’t make it either.
I couldn’t make that same last rocky hill in my 2005 Outback before final switchback (from Ouray side) - my naturally aspirated 2.5i just couldn’t produce enough power Hiked up those last few hundred feet I have a 2 inch ADF lift, skid plates and General Grabber ATX tires, no other mods
Thanks for sharing George. You’re story is very helpful to the community. How much extra weight were you carrying? Someone in a SF Forester 2.5 (1998-2002) said he was able to drive up with no problem. He also mentioned that his Forester was 2500 lbs., but a quick Google search says it’s 3,050, so it’s hard to rely on his story.
She needs a new Outback Wilderness with the 2.4L TURBO next :) That'll help on the climbs and the higher elevation where engine power will naturally be sapped. The Wilderness comes with 9.5 inches of clearance from the factory so that's a good starting point.
Awesome video Jon and congrats Carey on reaping the benefits of your hard work and driving skills. I may have missed it but when cooling CVT temps is it better/faster to leave the engine running at idle or to shut it off?
That's a good question, and unfortunately It's going to be too hard to answer. I think an older dual range manual Subaru would definitely do it. There's this guy named Blue Fox (his channel is now called ModFoz) that has a 2nd gen Subaru Forester 5 speed manual. He has driven up lower engineer pass, which seems to be a similar technical rating, but I just haven't seen any prolonged climbs. That's the thing about taking Carey's CVT outback up this trail. We wanted to find out how far it would go, and we were all surprised. I think it was important to video document the whole thing, since there weren't any other videos of a Subaru driving up this trail. It would be nice for someone to do an honest video with a manual subaru making an attempt. Anyways, Carey plans to do a rematch with Imogene Pass next year with some vehicle weight reduction. Whoever attempts this trail, weight reduction will be key.
Thinking about buying an Outback Wilderness as my first overlanding/offroad vehicule, so I really enjoyed this video. thanks! Quick question: when the outback almost didn't make it towards the end (at 35 minutes, and then didn't make it a few minutes later), was it because of a lack of low-range? Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Yes, your observations are correct. Gearing plays such an important factor! For example, you saw a Jeep Renegade in this video that has a similar power plant to the outback, but because it’s geared 21.5:1 vs. the Outbacks 14.0:1, it made it up. I could not recommend the Outback wilderness as a first overlanding vehicle, so I hope you give your decision a lot of thought. Good luck!!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for the information about the outback's low gearing. I was glad to see that lack of low-range in action on the video. And while it does constitute a serious problem, it also depends on where one lives. I live in Quebec, as far away from the Rockies as one can be and still live in North America! :-) There are a few mountain ranges relatively close, but nothing as intense as those in the west. I'll keep that 14.0:1 in mind. But is that ratio for the regular outback, or for the wilderness? I know the wilderness has a CVT tuned for better low end, but I can't find the exact number.
@@olivier.st-amand the current regular Outbacks have a crawl ratio of 15.9:1, the Outback XT is 13.9:1 and the Outback wilderness is at 15.5:1. The higher this number the better. These vehicles also have a CVT (continuously variable transmission), which performs much different than a traditional automatic transmission. A CVT will need a running start to get over step obstacles. For example, let’s say you approach an 8 inch rock, from a stop a CVT equipped vehicle will stall out where as a vehicle with an automatic would just drive right up.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I think that the need for a running start is a bigger problem than a missing low range for my needs and the region I live in. I'm surprised that the wilderness have a worse crawl ratio than the regular outbacks as their CVTs have been tuned to have better low range.
Thanks R/T. We are wondering if a Forester Wilderness could make it. It’s geared better than Carey’s outback (16.7:1 vs. 14.0:1), but it’s going to have less ground clearance and won’t have a rear locker. Prior to our trip, we did a Google search and there was someone on Reddit that made the attempt on a 2019+ Forester already. Unfortunately, they didn’t make it.
So, the problem with the turbo is that it has a lower compression ratio, so it will actually do worse unless it would spool up. As long as it’s not being hung up on an obstacle, the turbo will eventually get up to speed. What will truly help is crawl ratio, that’s how the stock Compass Trailhawk was able to make it to the top with its normally aspirated 2.4L I4 engine. Imo, the Outback wilderness would have a better chance, but with the CVT, a low compression ratio I’m unsure is the 15.5:1 crawl ratio would be enough. My friend Carey’s outback has the same compression ratio and is geared 14.0:1. Id love to see a well documented attempt. The plan is to go back this August with a 5th Gen Outback 3.6R CVT and a Forester Wilderness CVT and stripped down version of Carey’s Outback. Excited to see the results. I have high hopes for the forester wilderness.
Hey Jon, have you been having any of the common transmission issues with your 9speed? (Transmission kicking out to neutral or into lower gears and even shutting power off altogether until a restart)
I don’t think that’s a common transmission issue. There were issues with the ZF9 when it was first released, and many of those issues were due to a crimped wire. Then in 2019 ZF9 released their Ver. 2.0. I actually don’t know anyone that has had an automatic transmission fail on them since I started overlanding (any year, any brand).
So close! I think this might get more Subies, especially the ones with better gearing to make the attempt. Carey laid out the recipe for all to see. Light load out, stock size tires, octane booster, and a rear locker to maintain the momentum. Her 2014 outback has a 14:1 crawl ratio w/ 10:1 compression Outback wilderness is at 15.5:1 crawl ratio with a 10.6 compression ratio, but possibly a quicker to stall torque converter, BUT is turbo charged. Forester wilderness is at 16.7:1 crawl ratio with a 12:1 compression ratio and a much more willing torque converter. With the bump in gearing, I wonder if the wilderness models would make it up. Another thing to worry about is honesty of some creators. This is literally the first and only video to show a Subaru attempt imogene pass, and while she was just feet from success, I’d call it a win. She competed 96% of the trail unassisted. With all that said, I want anyone that is interested in attempting this trail in an AWD with non aggressive gearing to realize that they will have to push the limits . Carey made sure she changed out her fluids after this trip.
@@KTMcaptain Weight is definitely a factor at that elevation, and hope that anyone who does attempt it will lighten their load as much as possible. I’d thought about jettisoning some of my weight, but the skies were angry and we just needed to be off the peak.
Not sure what the deal is? That Suby should have absolutely no problem on Imogene. It’s not a technical trail, nor does it have large obstacles that require extra high ground clearance.
Having done this area in a vehicle with the same drive train I knew all too well the "flooring it and going no where" feeling. But it was still a great video. I unsubscribed so I could subscribe again.
Great job Jon. Love the opening sequence,. As I currently own 2 Outbacks, I appreciate your dipping back into your own Subi experience. I was multitasking while watching parts of this, and may have missed it, but was Lori's use of X-Mode discussed at all? As always thanks for sharing.
Love the video…and I do appreciate not broadcasting less trafficked areas in order to preserve our natural places…but, just a suggestion, don’t toss food to wildlife in those same natural places. Pack in, pack out is still vital to the survival of these fragile alpine tundra ecosystems. Thanks for visiting CO, please keep up the amazing content! PS Completely depends on the season, but the mountains get pretty healthy rain (or snow) year round. Not as common down in the foothills or metro areas.
I’d like to see one make the attempt too! Someone commented that they witnessed the outback wilderness getting assistance during the wilderness reveal commercial. It looks like they probably needed it during the wet shelf section just after the waterfall. Carey hit her 2” lifted outback with high clearance bumper there.
Before I ever attempted anything like this in a Subaru, the manufacturer would have to FIX the Parasitic Drain issue the vehicle has. This drains the battery to the point where the battery is completely dead. It's a short in the system that seeks out the 3G connection. Subaru has been sued several times for this issue, and refuses to fix the issue in 2018, and 2022 versions of the vehicle. It's left us with a dead vehicle battery while wilderness camping. If someone else didn't have jumper cables we'd have to walk out
I'm sure all of these vehicles are a lot more capable than they seem in the videos give it some more commitment. Also cvts have too much drivetrain loss for off roading
Well, there is no way in hell I'm pulling my vehicle up that close to the ledge. Nope, no way. Hahahaha... My luck, that freaking rock would fracture and ....
Like you mention in the last video , you meed low range , ya have to take in consideration other travelers , safety concerns and ruining there day by time, or if one of them vehicles break down because they are being pushed past their mechanical limits.. its not really fair to other travelers . Just my thoughts anyway . And im not trying to be a jeep snob either . Great video tho thank you.
Cool video. But that Subaru sounds absolutely horrible. I’m not a hater I have an Outback. Like what for exhaust or lack thereof was on that thing? Sounded like it was straight pipes running on 1 cyl.
Yeah. This isn't a very technical trail, it's just steep. A 4WD with 4Lo should make relatively easy work of this trail. On a scale of 1 to 5, it's rated a level 3 moderate.
I know they have a cult following but from a neutral standpoint like if I was born yesterday just looking at things I would be wondering why I have something that can haul less and have less abilities off-road then just a Jeep for a Rover for a Toyota? There's literally no scenario where you can be driving a regular 4 by 4 and thinking damn I wish I would have been in the Subaru that would have been way better right now LOL but the opposite can be set when you're scraping plastic and not having a low-range gearbox or actual four-wheel-drive or a rear Locker or more suspension travel. I will get the owners will start to go on dirt road trails and it slowly leads them to see more fun Trails nothing crazy and extreme but just a little more fun and the vehicle just can't do it easily without possibly causing damage. So like I said from a totally unbiased damn point why I own something that is literally just not as good for obvious reasons when you could have known many other things that are much more capable what can still drive you around town comfortably and carry more cargo
I look at it as it's doing about as good as anything can do that load of the ground LOL and always be limited by its abilities? If you want to be weird on a Land Rover at least it's more capable and has ground clearance LOL talk about Creature Comforts and Street handling haha
I like your videos, but I don't agree with you in regards to sharing the location because this are public trails and honesty I feel it is selfish on your part not sharing the location of this beautiful places, other than that no Hart feelings thanks! for sharing the videos, loved it
![A CRAZY decision and WILD Semi Recovery | Alaska Arctic Adventure [ MOVIE ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oESkgq_hu4c/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks so much for the feature on taking on Imogene Pass! What an incredible experience with a dream team of travel companions. I know that without being able to monitor my transmission temps with the Scangauge II and keep my CVT cooled with the Mishimoto transmission cooler, I wouldn't have been able to climb that steep, long trail as successfully as I did. I realize how much of a difference the custom high-clearance bumper made in approaching obstacles, and that the TORQ locker was absolutely critical for maintaining traction and tackling those tough obstacles especially at such high elevations.
I'm grateful for the support from Wagan Tech, TORQ Masters, BF Goodrich Tires, Diode Dynamics, Prinsu Design Studio, RalliTEK Performance, Overland Trail Guides, MACC Creations, Scrubblade Wiper Blades, and NickGyver Enterprises.
Follow our Rebelle Rally Team #204 this October! We're one (if not the only?!) Subaru competing and we'd love for you to cheer us on. Check out MtnSubi.com or the link in our Instagram bio for ways to support us. There will be live broadcasts on the Rebelle Rally Facebook/Instagram/TH-cam pages and you can even track us live during competition to see if we found our checkpoint!
Carey what is your email?
You did an awesome job, Carey!👍🏼
@@RobbieHerrera thank you!! So many things came together to make it happen. 🙏🏽💪🏼
My daughter and I follow the Rebelle every year...we will definitely follow team #204! Good luck!
@@elsewhereoverland that’s fantastic!! I’m so glad to have some veteran Rebelle followers here. Love all these women!!! 💙💙
I'm more impressed that the guy in the F-150 with street tires made it!
I was up there last week and saw a lady in a stock Subaru Outback on Hurricane pass coming down into Animas Forks. That wasn't a sight I expected to see. I'm not a Subaru fan, but I respect them a little more now on the Trail. Good job guys!
I did Imogene pass in my wilderness on 4th September. it was one hell of a thrill ride. your video footage is awesome
Oh nice! Which one do you have?
How did the Wilderness do and any upgrades? I have the OBW and thinking about doing it
Super awesome for the 23:29 part! It's amazing to see SUV like the Subaru Outback managing to climb up the little stiff cliff. Great job, guys!
Thats so awesome that she wasn't left behind. I was rooting for her the whole way.
The end brought me to tears! What an awesome group!
This is what life is about, bravo y'all!!
Thanks for bringing us with you
Thanks for tagging along Mark!
Now that’s how it’s done, you guy’s are amazing on those trails and congratulations Carey for the first Subaru going all the way up there. 🤙🏽
I’ve heard of other Subarus making it up. The legacy wagons of old or the brat have probably made it up before TH-cam was a thing, but there’s literally no other TH-cam videos of a Subaru attempting to climb Imogene Pass. Carey has laid the ground work for what would be needed and set the bar for sure! Looking forward to other creators to video document a 100% unassisted attempt.
I definitely learned a lot about the effects of altitude on my vehicle both from watching it happen, and from the group of knowledgeable people on the trip that shared information and thoughts about it. Can’t wait to learn more and perhaps do another attempt with some key adjustments. Either way, it was an incredible trip!
This was such a fun trip. I was humbled and thrilled to be able to join. Nice editing!
Wouldn’t have been the same without Team Blue Taco!! 💙 talk about humbling!! Grateful to be out there with ya.
I'm so glad you were able to make it out. What started as a group of 9, diminished to a group of 2, so glad you all joined.
Excellent episode.
Thanks Charley
I love the Subaru content!
Wow very impressive! My sister just got a 2010 outback, and I have a 2007 Outback. Overall great vehicles.
Great video Jon! Carey and her little subie that could was very impressive!
Thanks Dalton!! I’m grateful to be included in the trip!!
@@careylando2795 in case you didn’t know, Dalton was hoping to join us, but gas prices were so high at the time
Dalton, hoping to catch you on next years trip
@@JonDZ_Adventuring lol if that was the only thing, I would have been there, but a close relative had lost their job at the beginning of June so I was helping them out financially, but now they're back on the workforce!
And since I've got almost a year to prepare, I'll definitely be there next year, that's for sure!
Awesome can't wait.
Excellent film! Beautiful scenery. A good demonstration of teamwork =) That one obstacle in which it seemed like Carey would not complete but then completed was epic and provided great drama for the film. This is why I continue to support your endeavors Jon and recommend your channel anyone that mentions overlanding.
Thanks for the kind words FatalAnimal 🙏
Just did Imogene pass on 9.4.22 in a stock TRD Pro 4R. Beautiful road, she did very well considering the vehicle, that was no joke of a drive!
Yeah, fun drive for sure! Did you find the secret waterfall?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I did not, to be fair I did not explore much as I was on a semi time constraint with a toddler and infant in the car. Cool spot for lunch though, we ended up having a picnic in Telluride and then dinner at a restaurant. Super busy weekend in Telluride as they had the film festival going on.
What a ride. I passed through 3 years ago, but didn't get to do any real off-roading. Mainly camping with the trailer. Bucket list for sure!
I saw you were talking about an E locker for your Highlander? That’s so awesome!!!
I did Imogene couple years ago and the altitude on the engine was no joke lol. My Jeep is supercharged and felt like I had only 5 hp till boost kicks in.
Great video! Looked like a lot of fun :)
Thanks for sharing Chris! A supercharged Jeep sounds fun
You did a great job on this film, very interesting subject matter. Way more interesting than the content of some of the bigger Overlanding channels such as TrailRecon. I never would have guessed the loss of power from elevation would have ended up being the issue. The Subaru did amazing. Had no idea you could get a lunch box locker for a Subaru .......... awesome, ....... Im a huge Subaru fan !!!
NIce video as always! Great fun hanging out online, thank you for a fun session. :)
Thanks for joining Robbie 🙏, it was fun live chatting
Great job everyone. Such a beautiful trip. Can't wait to do this trip myself.
Thanks Vibol 🙏
Awesome video! So cool seeing Subarus reaching new heights and conquering new obstacles!
Thanks Anthony! 🙏
Thanks, Anthony! You’re one that pushes me to try new things, and I appreciate you for all your support! 🥰
Congrats MTNSUBIE!!! and great team work! Outbackinthewild
*As a fellow Outback Owner WELL DONE.*
Trustful, capable and safe brand for sure. Haven’t pushed my 16 forester but wouldn’t want to be in anything else Viva Subaru!
We did Imogene Pass in our VW off road bug in 2018. Never had any issues. It is a little scary but traction was never and issue even though we only had at the time 100hp no Fuel injection and 2wd and open differential.
Looks like a super fun trail!
I wish I met you there. I was just there 2 days ago, after traveling 2000+ miles from Carolina. We also did Black Bear Pass in the morning, followed by Imogene in the pm.
Sounds like an epic trip! We visited from July 11 to the 15th. The more I watch videos of black bear, the more I’m warming up to the idea of doing it 🤣. I’m still scared though 😱. Did you do any other trails? Clear lake was a nice place to visit. We also did corkscrew pass. I’d like to do engineer pass and the easier part of porchkeepsie gulch.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Sadly we did not have time to do engineer and ophir. Definitely will come back when there’s a chance. Ouray and Telluride both have good restaurants.
@@xplorefurther Silverton is pretty awesome too. There’s a giant network of trails on the eastern side of the million dollar highway. Lots of cool lakes. I still have a few more episodes to make.
That Subaru has the power to do the job. That Jeep Renegade must have made it. I like the Subaru but I like a manual shift transmission. I bet if she had a manual shift, a 6 speed, her low gear would have taken that with no problem. She has the CVT and then the computer combined holding her back. These car are very capable. I had a lifter Forester with the manual shift. It would never big down in first gear. Oh, and thanks for sharing. Love these videos
Video documenting this whole attempt is what I set out to do 😃, thanks for watching. I included everything important including coming across the bone stock Jeep renegade Trailhawk. They have the German made ZF9 automatic transmission and a 21.5:1 crawl ratio. I’ve heard of older 1st Gen Subaru foresters make it up (with 4.44 differentials), which might be possible if they don’t carry much gear and Jeep the power to weight ratio as high as possible. The old forester with 4.44 gears only has a 13:1 crawl ratio, but it has the 4EAT. The CVT Subaru in this video has a 14:1 crawl ratio, but even with a light loadout, the vehicle will still weigh a good 4200 lbs. compared to a 2700 lb. 1st Gen Forester.
very informative video !! those water crossings were soothing
As a Subaru owner I think an issue with its offroad ability is one that is often overlooked. It's the power band. The torque does not come on until the mid RPM range which is too high if you need it for slower obstacles or elevations. I believe this also puts added stress on the CVT. It is fine for rally driving but not for true off road. With today's variable valve timing and direct injection engines some of this to a small degree can be overcome if the manufactures would build in additional tuning options. My Forester does come with a "sport mode" so I know this is possible.
You bring up good points Alan. With the wilderness models, Subaru has made the gearing a little bit more aggressive for more low end torque. The 2019+ SK Foresters are a perfect example. They have the same engine, but the base model has a 13.3:1 crawl ratio, where as the Wilderness has a 16.7:1. I wonder if Subaru would ever be able to do a "crawler gear ratio", where it can only be accessed if a special button is pressed.
cvt no bueno
Dual Range transfer cases are available if you are super serious Subie owner. I’ve ridden up Imogene on my KTM 690 Loaded with 80 liters of luggage a few years ago. Good times.
@@Cycle9568 that's absurd, just buy a real off roader and avoid all the bs
@@RagingBad Why? If you want to build something different then build something different. There is obviously a market otherwise companies would not be building the parts. I own two Jeeps so I have gone the conventional route…but that is not for everyone.
I think this video really covers it well! Nice work.
Thanks Ian 🙏
another great video! Makes me feel lazy for not getting out there and hitting some trails.
Seeing all those AWDs must have surprised the hardcore 4x4 drivers out there!
We get out when we can. I only started doing this a couple years ago, so don’t feel lazy; you’re doing other important things fs. Yeah, we had a few folks cheering us all on while on the trail! It was pretty cool.
It’s awesome out there! I highly recommend
great vid, cant wait for the net one!
Thanks Robizm! I think in the next episode I should show the Telluride side and talk about my take aways, things learned, and comments
I drove in the rain in bumper to bumper traffic today. Was equally dangerous. Saw a rear sighting as well. There was BMW, and it used a turn signal. I took a picture, I'm still in awe.
Excellent video Jon! Carey did a hell of a job! Also, great team!
Thanks OCTurboJoe! Thanks 🙏
Great stuff Jon and Team. Special shout out to Carey for taking it to the Limit! Someday I will hit this trail, but not so sure it'll be in my 6th Gen Outback...lol
Thanks Sashi 🙏. I wish I could spend another day up there. We were thinking of camping up there, but decided to descend since no one was driving up anymore. We saw a huge influx of traffic in the morning
Thanks Sashi!! What a great learning experience it was for me!
Nice mountain ride thanks for sharing ❤
Great job Carey
Thank you!!
I need to go here now!!
Yep! I highly recommend the whole area. This is actually episode 3 and there’s going to be 2-4 more episodes
Good job on making it up 👏🏼
Pretty easy for the J35 / ZF9 combo 😃
Met a Subaru Crossteck on Engineer Pass. It was the Subaru rep testing the car to see how it performed. It did well.
As a person that ran over Imogene pass last September in the IPR ( Imogene pass run) I take umbrage with y’all using the word running it in a car 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’m out of breath from reading this comment. Good job 👍!
I’m running it again 9/10/22 , I’ll be on a pair of Altra running shoes, not all season tires 👍🙌
Love seeing some 4th gen Outback love! 💪I follow her on insta so it was awesome to see the build in action. Now I wanna know how my 3.6R would climb at that elevation. It is quite a bit more powerful than the 2.5 outback and no cvt either.
yeah the tradeoff though is ground clearance and reliability. it really just depends on what you want. 3rd gen outback's are dope though.
@@jamespostle6894the 3.6R is a 4th gen outback. 3.0's are on the 3rd gen.
Very cool video :)
But I must ask, why pick the crappy CVT transmission? The manual box offered a dual range with shorter ratios on demand. Maybe you didn't get those in the US?
Alright nevermind I saw the answer in the comments bellow
Can you link to the rear control arms and show what you mean by inverted? Thanks!
Awesome video! What a great adventure with like minded people. So awesome to see a 4th gen OB out there representing too! You all did great! I wonder how my 3.6/5eat would fair at that high of an elevation though... I definitely need to visit CO sometime!!
Thanks Man! Colorado is an amazing place! I’d be interested to find out too! Some of the 1st Gen Forester guys say they’ve been able to make it up imogene without too much issue, it’s just too hard to believe things unless you see it on video, but go search for “Subaru Redcone” which is a really difficult trail. There’s a SG forester with a torq locker that gets through some of that stuff, and that’s a really tough trail. The peak is 12.8K.
I ran Imogene Pass, Ouray to Telluride. It’s high, but driveable.
Whew good job! There’s another person that commented they run this trail too 🏃♂️
Did Imogene on 7/25/22 - th-cam.com/video/n7Kf90VnB4w/w-d-xo.html. Saw a couple Subaru’s and WAY too many street-only SUV’s. Like Black Bear, that trail is relatively easy for any slightly lifted 4x4. But it’s NOT for the faint of heart, inexperienced or easily distracted. Before starting, remind yourself that going over any of those spectacular drop offs would be terminal. Then go have an awesome ride!
Did you see them at the top? A lot of AWDs have mentioned they could not get to the top. If you read the comment section, you’ll see many have tried and had the same fate as our friend Carey. With that said, it’s definitely advisable for AWDs to not attempt without 4WD support and a good plan! You encountered a lot of traffic, we did as well. A stuck vehicle will really complicate high traffic situations. This is one of the reasons I make videos, so my fellow adventurers can better decide if they want to attempt or not. I checked out your video, but didn’t see any Subarus in it.
Did 2nd Imogene E to W, Ouray to Telluride a week later. That vid out in a week or two. When I get it put together, it would be interesting to compare same direction trail with yours. Spent past two Summers wheeling the San Juan’s & have seen Subaru’s on both big name trails & secondary’s. Remember seeing two, part way up at Tomboy mine, but they could’ve been a Teluride out & back. I do not recall seeing any at the top, on either run. Found your vid to be interesting. Sections that didn’t even register on our “difficulty needle”, were a really big deal for your group. Did both ways solo so traffic easier to contend with.
@@NoGasWelcomeAboard Imogene wasn’t difficult for the Hondas either, it’s just that this trail is rated moderate difficulty, Jeep badge of honor rates it as such, and it would be irresponsible for me to downplay trail difficulty. As mentioned in both my videos about Imogene pass, the biggest danger is coming across oncoming traffic on these narrow shelf roads.
considering a 24 outback wilderness and one mod, diff lockers. are there groups a guy can hit up to do something like this?
Too bad you all didn’t post the rocky boulder at the end near Telluride, would have loved to seen how your Subaru handled the rocks.
is MtnSubi a 2.4 turbo 3.6r or 2.5? the exhaust sounds nice. I won a 18 3.6r, would that be a better fir for this trip? i represent MtnRoo Phoenix area.....
She has a 2010 2.5. While power plant might make a difference, it’s really gearing that makes the most. A 1.3L 67HP Suzuki Samurai would drive up this because it has 4LO. In 2021 we had two 250 Hp, 3.5L V6 Honda Pilots, and they couldn’t make it either.
Very cool about the MtnRoo. They were the first group I met back when I had a Subaru.
I couldn’t make that same last rocky hill in my 2005 Outback before final switchback (from Ouray side) - my naturally aspirated 2.5i just couldn’t produce enough power
Hiked up those last few hundred feet
I have a 2 inch ADF lift, skid plates and General Grabber ATX tires, no other mods
Thanks for sharing George. You’re story is very helpful to the community. How much extra weight were you carrying?
Someone in a SF Forester 2.5 (1998-2002) said he was able to drive up with no problem. He also mentioned that his Forester was 2500 lbs., but a quick Google search says it’s 3,050, so it’s hard to rely on his story.
She needs a new Outback Wilderness with the 2.4L TURBO next :) That'll help on the climbs and the higher elevation where engine power will naturally be sapped. The Wilderness comes with 9.5 inches of clearance from the factory so that's a good starting point.
wow I ran this 15 years ago and the trail was no way near as eroded!
Have the Subaru Outback diff lock or off road mode
Awesome video Jon and congrats Carey on reaping the benefits of your hard work and driving skills. I may have missed it but when cooling CVT temps is it better/faster to leave the engine running at idle or to shut it off?
Thanks etn_crv 🙏. It’s better and faster to leave the car running so that the cooling systems can do their thing.
So answer one question. Natural aspirated or turbo charged Outback?
How is the fuel situation? Is there gas near the entrance to this trail?
Yes, no issue with fuel. Ouray and telluride have gas stations and they aren’t unreasonably priced, Atleast by California standards
how do you think a manual subaru vs the cvt outback would handle imogene? say a manual crosstrek for instance
That's a good question, and unfortunately It's going to be too hard to answer. I think an older dual range manual Subaru would definitely do it. There's this guy named Blue Fox (his channel is now called ModFoz) that has a 2nd gen Subaru Forester 5 speed manual. He has driven up lower engineer pass, which seems to be a similar technical rating, but I just haven't seen any prolonged climbs.
That's the thing about taking Carey's CVT outback up this trail. We wanted to find out how far it would go, and we were all surprised. I think it was important to video document the whole thing, since there weren't any other videos of a Subaru driving up this trail. It would be nice for someone to do an honest video with a manual subaru making an attempt.
Anyways, Carey plans to do a rematch with Imogene Pass next year with some vehicle weight reduction. Whoever attempts this trail, weight reduction will be key.
What’s preparation have the Subaru Outback
Thinking about buying an Outback Wilderness as my first overlanding/offroad vehicule, so I really enjoyed this video. thanks! Quick question: when the outback almost didn't make it towards the end (at 35 minutes, and then didn't make it a few minutes later), was it because of a lack of low-range? Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Yes, your observations are correct. Gearing plays such an important factor! For example, you saw a Jeep Renegade in this video that has a similar power plant to the outback, but because it’s geared 21.5:1 vs. the Outbacks 14.0:1, it made it up.
I could not recommend the Outback wilderness as a first overlanding vehicle, so I hope you give your decision a lot of thought.
Good luck!!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for the information about the outback's low gearing. I was glad to see that lack of low-range in action on the video. And while it does constitute a serious problem, it also depends on where one lives.
I live in Quebec, as far away from the Rockies as one can be and still live in North America! :-) There are a few mountain ranges relatively close, but nothing as intense as those in the west.
I'll keep that 14.0:1 in mind. But is that ratio for the regular outback, or for the wilderness? I know the wilderness has a CVT tuned for better low end, but I can't find the exact number.
@@olivier.st-amand the current regular Outbacks have a crawl ratio of 15.9:1, the Outback XT is 13.9:1 and the Outback wilderness is at 15.5:1. The higher this number the better. These vehicles also have a CVT (continuously variable transmission), which performs much different than a traditional automatic transmission. A CVT will need a running start to get over step obstacles. For example, let’s say you approach an 8 inch rock, from a stop a CVT equipped vehicle will stall out where as a vehicle with an automatic would just drive right up.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I think that the need for a running start is a bigger problem than a missing low range for my needs and the region I live in.
I'm surprised that the wilderness have a worse crawl ratio than the regular outbacks as their CVTs have been tuned to have better low range.
I have a 2018 Renegade Trailhawk.. they are so fun
Nice! My 2019 Honda Passport has the same transmission and axle ratio! Our vehicles have something in common 😃
18:54 Pretty sure that is streetspeed717 the first time he went to imogene in his TRX!
Yeah, one of our guys noticed that this group was super popular.
Nice one Jon. I’m just wondering if a 2019 Subaru Forester sport could make it with that kind of elevation?
Thanks R/T. We are wondering if a Forester Wilderness could make it. It’s geared better than Carey’s outback (16.7:1 vs. 14.0:1), but it’s going to have less ground clearance and won’t have a rear locker.
Prior to our trip, we did a Google search and there was someone on Reddit that made the attempt on a 2019+ Forester already. Unfortunately, they didn’t make it.
I was rooting for the Subi!
I wonder how a similarly modded Outback wilderness with the turbo (to compensate for altitude) and the lower gearing would fare
So, the problem with the turbo is that it has a lower compression ratio, so it will actually do worse unless it would spool up. As long as it’s not being hung up on an obstacle, the turbo will eventually get up to speed. What will truly help is crawl ratio, that’s how the stock Compass Trailhawk was able to make it to the top with its normally aspirated 2.4L I4 engine.
Imo, the Outback wilderness would have a better chance, but with the CVT, a low compression ratio I’m unsure is the 15.5:1 crawl ratio would be enough. My friend Carey’s outback has the same compression ratio and is geared 14.0:1. Id love to see a well documented attempt.
The plan is to go back this August with a 5th Gen Outback 3.6R CVT and a Forester Wilderness CVT and stripped down version of Carey’s Outback. Excited to see the results. I have high hopes for the forester wilderness.
Hey Jon, have you been having any of the common transmission issues with your 9speed? (Transmission kicking out to neutral or into lower gears and even shutting power off altogether until a restart)
I don’t think that’s a common transmission issue. There were issues with the ZF9 when it was first released, and many of those issues were due to a crimped wire. Then in 2019 ZF9 released their Ver. 2.0. I actually don’t know anyone that has had an automatic transmission fail on them since I started overlanding (any year, any brand).
Have low range the Subaru Outback or X mode
Go Carey!!
16:04 is there a story to that cross?
Gearing is everything. She was so close. I wonder if it were the wilderness would it have made it? Or is it already a wild one?
So close! I think this might get more Subies, especially the ones with better gearing to make the attempt. Carey laid out the recipe for all to see. Light load out, stock size tires, octane booster, and a rear locker to maintain the momentum.
Her 2014 outback has a 14:1 crawl ratio w/ 10:1 compression
Outback wilderness is at 15.5:1 crawl ratio with a 10.6 compression ratio, but possibly a quicker to stall torque converter, BUT is turbo charged.
Forester wilderness is at 16.7:1 crawl ratio with a 12:1 compression ratio and a much more willing torque converter.
With the bump in gearing, I wonder if the wilderness models would make it up.
Another thing to worry about is honesty of some creators. This is literally the first and only video to show a Subaru attempt imogene pass, and while she was just feet from success, I’d call it a win. She competed 96% of the trail unassisted. With all that said, I want anyone that is interested in attempting this trail in an AWD with non aggressive gearing to realize that they will have to push the limits . Carey made sure she changed out her fluids after this trip.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring very true, imagine someone trying this by themselves with a RTT, a passenger, no scan gauge and having a catastrophic failure.
@@KTMcaptain Weight is definitely a factor at that elevation, and hope that anyone who does attempt it will lighten their load as much as possible. I’d thought about jettisoning some of my weight, but the skies were angry and we just needed to be off the peak.
This has me wanting to do it in my OBW, just not sure what upgrades I should do first. Stock so far, but has surprised us on trails so far.
Looks like yall are rolling on hard tires. Try airing down a little for better traction?
We’re all aired down
Not sure what the deal is? That Suby should have absolutely no problem on Imogene. It’s not a technical trail, nor does it have large obstacles that require extra high ground clearance.
The answer is in the video
@@JonDZ_Adventuring LOL. Let me rephrase…it if didn’t make it, it was because of a lack of driver skill not vehicle capability.
@@jeeperp3926 if you actually watched the video, then you would see it had nothing to do with driver skill.
Having done this area in a vehicle with the same drive train I knew all too well the "flooring it and going no where" feeling. But it was still a great video.
I unsubscribed so I could subscribe again.
Get ready for this next year!!!!
Great job Jon. Love the opening sequence,. As I currently own 2 Outbacks, I appreciate your dipping back into your own Subi experience. I was multitasking while watching parts of this, and may have missed it, but was Lori's use of X-Mode discussed at all? As always thanks for sharing.
Thanks Kevin. Carey’s 2014 Outback does not have xmode. That was introduced in some of upper trim 2015 models 😃.
That f150 doesn't have a locker, only the fx4 package gives u a locker. That truck was open diff
Love the video…and I do appreciate not broadcasting less trafficked areas in order to preserve our natural places…but, just a suggestion, don’t toss food to wildlife in those same natural places. Pack in, pack out is still vital to the survival of these fragile alpine tundra ecosystems. Thanks for visiting CO, please keep up the amazing content!
PS Completely depends on the season, but the mountains get pretty healthy rain (or snow) year round. Not as common down in the foothills or metro areas.
I’d like to see a stock Outback make it;) maybe the new wilderness trim could?
I’d like to see one make the attempt too! Someone commented that they witnessed the outback wilderness getting assistance during the wilderness reveal commercial. It looks like they probably needed it during the wet shelf section just after the waterfall. Carey hit her 2” lifted outback with high clearance bumper there.
Before I ever attempted anything like this in a Subaru, the manufacturer would have to FIX the Parasitic Drain issue the vehicle has. This drains the battery to the point where the battery is completely dead. It's a short in the system that seeks out the 3G connection. Subaru has been sued several times for this issue, and refuses to fix the issue in 2018, and 2022 versions of the vehicle. It's left us with a dead vehicle battery while wilderness camping. If someone else didn't have jumper cables we'd have to walk out
Nice 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
Is that a non turbo outback?
Yes it is
Man! I took my wife’s stock Subaru Forester up and over Imogene. Easy peasy. Subarus are great.
That's awesome! No issues with power? I have a modified 4th gen outback, would love to do the pass at some point
I'm sure all of these vehicles are a lot more capable than they seem in the videos give it some more commitment. Also cvts have too much drivetrain loss for off roading
We need to watch more Star Wars so that we can either use the Force or install warp drives into our vehicles ☺️
You know what they say. There's always a Subaru waiting at the end of your destination
RAD DRONE SHOTS! 📸
they probably should've minimized the weight on top and maybe in the vehicle too if they knew they were gonna have trouble further up.
Well, there is no way in hell I'm pulling my vehicle up that close to the ledge. Nope, no way. Hahahaha... My luck, that freaking rock would fracture and ....
It’s bolo btw nick changed my name
Haha! DEMON MODE 😈
Hi Bolo!!
Where's the "real" off road vehicles? JK :) Definitely enjoyed this.
☺️🤣
Maybe if she got the 3.6 will be easier with the elevation
that was a marmont...
Traffic bummer😒
🥺 no worries. You can watch in 4K now. I had no idea streams were reduced to 1080P
Like you mention in the last video , you meed low range , ya have to take in consideration other travelers , safety concerns and ruining there day by time, or if one of them vehicles break down because they are being pushed past their mechanical limits.. its not really fair to other travelers . Just my thoughts anyway . And im not trying to be a jeep snob either . Great video tho thank you.
Carey is such a badass….wifey material for any lucky man for sure!
Cool video. But that Subaru sounds absolutely horrible. I’m not a hater I have an Outback. Like what for exhaust or lack thereof was on that thing? Sounded like it was straight pipes running on 1 cyl.
It’s those CVT transmissions. Can’t get torque.
It's entertaining to watch, but why buy an inferior vehicle for the task?
Good old bare bones F150 Just gets it done
Yeah. This isn't a very technical trail, it's just steep. A 4WD with 4Lo should make relatively easy work of this trail. On a scale of 1 to 5, it's rated a level 3 moderate.
I know they have a cult following but from a neutral standpoint like if I was born yesterday just looking at things I would be wondering why I have something that can haul less and have less abilities off-road then just a Jeep for a Rover for a Toyota? There's literally no scenario where you can be driving a regular 4 by 4 and thinking damn I wish I would have been in the Subaru that would have been way better right now LOL but the opposite can be set when you're scraping plastic and not having a low-range gearbox or actual four-wheel-drive or a rear Locker or more suspension travel. I will get the owners will start to go on dirt road trails and it slowly leads them to see more fun Trails nothing crazy and extreme but just a little more fun and the vehicle just can't do it easily without possibly causing damage. So like I said from a totally unbiased damn point why I own something that is literally just not as good for obvious reasons when you could have known many other things that are much more capable what can still drive you around town comfortably and carry more cargo
I look at it as it's doing about as good as anything can do that load of the ground LOL and always be limited by its abilities? If you want to be weird on a Land Rover at least it's more capable and has ground clearance LOL talk about Creature Comforts and Street handling haha
I like your videos, but I don't agree with you in regards to sharing the location because this are public trails and honesty I feel it is selfish on your part not sharing the location of this beautiful places, other than that no Hart feelings thanks! for sharing the videos, loved it