I think Astrea could have been a more compelling villain if they went further with her recruiting disenfranchised soldiers rather than a supervillain the way she's portrayed. Not more compelling than Apollyon, but compelling in a different manner.
In a battle scenario, I personally think that Honor is showing your opponent respect in not holding back, and in giving your all in the fight in front of you. That is Honor on the Battlefield to ms
It's strange. I find myself nostalgia blind for something I didn't actively play when it first came out. I first played the campaign to take my mind off a very bad losing streak, and I quickly fell in love with the way the story was presented. It was rushed and bare bones, as is the MO of current Ubisoft, but watching your videos and hearing your thoughts helped me realize the hidden potential in both the worldbuilding and philosophy of For Honor. Which is why I find the current direction this game has taken to be a step back in terms of its thematic elements. I recognize that Astrea fits the game as it is in its current state, but I long for the subtle nuance and character exploration of Apollyon's ideals. The idea that deep down, in either hero or villain, Knight, Viking, Samurai, Wu Lin, or Outlander, there is a Wolf. A primal element of who we are that drives us as warriors. This season may be the closest I've gotten to experiencing the old For Honor, and I hope Ubisoft keeps going in that direction with Year 8.
I love these types of videos, and while I'm happy that For Honor is in a better place now gameplay wise, I will always miss the grit and edge it used to have. That aura of grime, desperation and mystery is something that made the game feel grounded to me. The game seems more "saturated" and fantasied these days if that makes sense, which isn't necessarily bad, but I do miss how it used to be back in the day.
Really good vid Raven. It does remind me sometimes of being a soldier. What is honor for them? A sense of duty and being patriotic, or is it something more? The other thing you bring up is war. War has no winners or losers. It can bring out the worst in a person while at the same time making a person think so they can outsmart their opponent. It's just a lot to process, and I think you nailed a lot of my points really well, so thank you.
I see astrea and Apollyon as two Warriors with similar ideologies thrust into two different time periods. Apollyons time period had Warriors hiding away tired of the ceaseless war, but with just a little push war would be inevitable. Vs Astrea who was living in a world where 15 years of peace was achieved. The world wasn't gonna just fall to simple manipulation and extreme show of force would be needed to plunge heathmore back into war. But Astrea wanted more than just war she wanted a new era where peace couldn't slink back after 10 years of war like with Apollyon. And I find the two sides very fascinating. In how similar they are but how the world they both lived in needed to different methods to achieve their goal of plunging heathmore into war
I think there is an underlying element of despair in Apollyon's beliefs. Her philosophy is that we are bloodthirsty Wolves who _must_ exist in a world of perpetual conflict in order to thrive, if we take into account the terror's she experienced as a child and her time as a Warden. In her death scene she even dismisses the values of the factions as excuses for their true desire: To fight and kill each other. At her core, she believes that humanity cannot and should not change, and would be better off embracing who they really are: Her Wolves. But look at the world. It's barely changed in over a thousand years of war. The factions have stagnated, fighting each other for reasons they can no longer explain and instead going through the motions of conflict like some twisted reflex. I believe Apollyon's ideals are driven by despair induced insanity. What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, hoping the next result will be different. It's almost a paradox. Apollyon believed that for humanity to thrive, we must always be at war. But war only brings destruction. The world doesn't care for war. While we fought, it recovered from the Cataclysm and became something new. Unstable, maybe, but something beautiful and grand again. Make no mistake the factions recovered as well, but they barely remember their respective histories. They don't ask what came before, or what reasons they fight each other. All they know is war, and as result they have become *still.* *Static.* Stuck in time. To me, this nightmare is the ideal result of Apollyon's philosophy.
@professionalcynic3836 yeah and I belive Astrea embraces the world view, but also took it a step further by shaping what she views as honor and morality around it. A few quotes: "to bear the mask of War with honor and fealty. To walk the path of glory and death without fear." And also "the cause of all evil is weakness. People would be unjust, disloyal and dishonorable only when they did not have the strength to stay true to themselves." And also "people were not born equal. Some were born to rule, while others were meant to serve. A constant struggle was the only way to keep the strongest at their rightful place" Ideologies that Astrea and her order believe in.
Hey Raven Knight, I dunno if you'll read this but id really like for you to try a video if the Roman Empire returned. Say in the knight faction, Centurion was...quiet...then one day he disappeared, soon, all factions watch in horror as men dawned in red, with giant shields and plumes charge and ravage through Heathmore with ease, like the blitskreig. Soon, one of the knights spotted Centurion, now a general dawned in either black or imperial purple, as he stabs down the banner of the restored Roman Empire. I like to see you try a video on that and see how it can work in For Honor, and what if centurion was removed if that ever happened, now part of the Vanguard, dawning a shield and fresh yet simple armor of his homeland, the assessin being the Arcani, probably being similar to the peacemaker with mixes of the shinobi, and the heavy being the eagle barer himself, with a strength of a lion, crushing his enemies with armor to rival that of the Lawbringer. I really wanna know your thoughts on this. it'd be awesome.
I have a whole dissertation that I can write about Apollyon and For Honor's philosophical question, but I'll try and keep this short. The reason there has been a thousand years of war isn't because that's just how it is with humans, it's because violence and bloodshed begets more violence and bloodshed. How many soldiers do you think have taken up arms because they saw their father killed and their mother SA'd, or their villages looted and burned. how many grudges do you think had been created between every clan? How many people saw all their loved ones slaughtered, mutilated and humiliated before their very eyes and wanted nothing more than to lash out? I can even point to an example in the campaign: Ragnar. The Vikings didn't fight him because they wanted to fight him, he was hoarding food and feasting whilst everyone around his clan starved and had to fight for the most meagre of scraps. I can even deconstruct apollyon to an extent, but that would basically require me writing 8 more paragraphs, so I'll end it here.
That is a rather interesting take on Javiks line on honor. Of course it makes sense for Javik to be pessimistic about it. Dude saw his whole civilization get eradicated, all that mattered to him was doing what needed to be done. Not that I disagree with you, sometimes the reasons we struggle and compete is simply based on our own principle.
I think for me the Javik line is in the context of the fact that the Protheans were destroyed and undermined by their traditional militaristic doctrines, Honor and duty had no answer for an enemy open to exploiting it and fighting without those same limits. Javiks character is informed by the Reaper victory and so he now fights with that same cold and calculating cunning, he’s unwilling to toe the line anymore because he knows it’s a losing battle. One of the counterpoints I’ve always liked is that Honor and Duty as responsibilities ideally drive competence, because you know you are fighting with limitations and therefore must be disciplined to beat opponents without the same circumstances. Seek power not for its own sake but so that you fighting with one hand tied behind your back is the same as an enemy with 2.
What i find funny about the lore is that it's been 1000 years since a cataclysm. Which means three possibilities. Either the cataclysm happened in the year 1100 ad when all three were around then its the year 2100, which means they're past us and still in the past, it happened in the year 900 which would make it 1900 which is also astonishing, or the lame option, the cataclysm happened well before the knights were even a thing, the Vikings were just getting started and the samurai were in their heyday.
17:11 people leave out one big piece of context , the line is an excuse for “by any means to achieve my goal.” And while the quote isn’t great there a slight bit of merit if the honor has lost the ideals behind it that gave it value , the honor in for honor still holds value even when the initial reason is gone because in combat there honor is every aspect of them there culture, there own personal values and ideals , its the clash of each factions way of life , they don’t let there way of life decay behind them as they push forward.
I want to emphasize that Horkos did not simply attack Mesoamerica, they sacked the great city of Tenochtitlan, the largest city on the continent the Ocelotl says so directly. Not to be heavy but pre-Hispanic cultures are usually represented very simply and the naming of the capital of the Aztec empire elevates it beyond generic ancient civilization.
While I greatly prefer Apollyon, there is more to Astrea then surface level too , using Apollyon’s philosophy astrea would be sheep that filed its teeth into points dyed its body grey and gathered those scattered remains of the vast wolf pack by imitating but also twisting and warping the leaders ideals to suit her needs , shes using apollyon’s ideal as the excuse for her own they show that she warped Apollyon’s ideals with her name alone Astrea a goddess of justice the opposite of Apollyon a demon of destruction This isn’t just good vs evil this is someone who didn’t have the same prowess ( if she had the same prowess as apollyon she wouldn’t have been imitating as hard , though this doesn’t mean shes weak , she wouldn’t be able to get the black stones to follow her if she wasn’t strong) but has a strong mind for people and using the sense of honor and respect the blackstone legion had for Apollyon she gathers them to achieve her own goals , its someone twisting the ground work to suit there purpose and thus losing the ideals that give honor meaning
Incorrect. According to former lead writer Ariadne MacGillivray, Heathmoor is located in what used to be Central Europe near Germany and Poland. That would make it a region, nation, or country.
@@RavenKnightYT so it's like Skyrim being a province with three separate countries and multiple factions fighting for power because (Valkenhim)?, Ashfeld, and the Dawn Empire are separate Nations
I think Astrea could have been a more compelling villain if they went further with her recruiting disenfranchised soldiers rather than a supervillain the way she's portrayed. Not more compelling than Apollyon, but compelling in a different manner.
She did, and it says so in her year 4 lore. 👍
In a battle scenario, I personally think that Honor is showing your opponent respect in not holding back, and in giving your all in the fight in front of you. That is Honor on the Battlefield to ms
Videos like this are the reason I always wind up coming back to you.
It's strange. I find myself nostalgia blind for something I didn't actively play when it first came out. I first played the campaign to take my mind off a very bad losing streak, and I quickly fell in love with the way the story was presented. It was rushed and bare bones, as is the MO of current Ubisoft, but watching your videos and hearing your thoughts helped me realize the hidden potential in both the worldbuilding and philosophy of For Honor.
Which is why I find the current direction this game has taken to be a step back in terms of its thematic elements. I recognize that Astrea fits the game as it is in its current state, but I long for the subtle nuance and character exploration of Apollyon's ideals. The idea that deep down, in either hero or villain, Knight, Viking, Samurai, Wu Lin, or Outlander, there is a Wolf. A primal element of who we are that drives us as warriors. This season may be the closest I've gotten to experiencing the old For Honor, and I hope Ubisoft keeps going in that direction with Year 8.
I love these types of videos, and while I'm happy that For Honor is in a better place now gameplay wise, I will always miss the grit and edge it used to have. That aura of grime, desperation and mystery is something that made the game feel grounded to me. The game seems more "saturated" and fantasied these days if that makes sense, which isn't necessarily bad, but I do miss how it used to be back in the day.
Really good vid Raven. It does remind me sometimes of being a soldier. What is honor for them? A sense of duty and being patriotic, or is it something more?
The other thing you bring up is war. War has no winners or losers. It can bring out the worst in a person while at the same time making a person think so they can outsmart their opponent. It's just a lot to process, and I think you nailed a lot of my points really well, so thank you.
Get well soon, really good video man I appreciate your hard work and your effort
Such a great video. I always thought for honors back story was just so interesting and felt like it could go way deeper. Well done
I see astrea and Apollyon as two Warriors with similar ideologies thrust into two different time periods. Apollyons time period had Warriors hiding away tired of the ceaseless war, but with just a little push war would be inevitable.
Vs Astrea who was living in a world where 15 years of peace was achieved. The world wasn't gonna just fall to simple manipulation and extreme show of force would be needed to plunge heathmore back into war. But Astrea wanted more than just war she wanted a new era where peace couldn't slink back after 10 years of war like with Apollyon.
And I find the two sides very fascinating. In how similar they are but how the world they both lived in needed to different methods to achieve their goal of plunging heathmore into war
I think there is an underlying element of despair in Apollyon's beliefs. Her philosophy is that we are bloodthirsty Wolves who _must_ exist in a world of perpetual conflict in order to thrive, if we take into account the terror's she experienced as a child and her time as a Warden. In her death scene she even dismisses the values of the factions as excuses for their true desire: To fight and kill each other. At her core, she believes that humanity cannot and should not change, and would be better off embracing who they really are: Her Wolves.
But look at the world. It's barely changed in over a thousand years of war. The factions have stagnated, fighting each other for reasons they can no longer explain and instead going through the motions of conflict like some twisted reflex. I believe Apollyon's ideals are driven by despair induced insanity. What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, hoping the next result will be different.
It's almost a paradox. Apollyon believed that for humanity to thrive, we must always be at war. But war only brings destruction. The world doesn't care for war. While we fought, it recovered from the Cataclysm and became something new. Unstable, maybe, but something beautiful and grand again. Make no mistake the factions recovered as well, but they barely remember their respective histories. They don't ask what came before, or what reasons they fight each other. All they know is war, and as result they have become *still.* *Static.* Stuck in time. To me, this nightmare is the ideal result of Apollyon's philosophy.
@professionalcynic3836 yeah and I belive Astrea embraces the world view, but also took it a step further by shaping what she views as honor and morality around it.
A few quotes: "to bear the mask of War with honor and fealty. To walk the path of glory and death without fear." And also "the cause of all evil is weakness. People would be unjust, disloyal and dishonorable only when they did not have the strength to stay true to themselves." And also "people were not born equal. Some were born to rule, while others were meant to serve. A constant struggle was the only way to keep the strongest at their rightful place"
Ideologies that Astrea and her order believe in.
Thanks a bunch love the vid get well soon love you raven
Hope you get well soon man. Good video. 👍
This was beautiful 💜
7:56
Ohhh, ok! So that's why I thought I've already seen warden's new execution
Hey Raven Knight, I dunno if you'll read this but id really like for you to try a video if the Roman Empire returned. Say in the knight faction, Centurion was...quiet...then one day he disappeared, soon, all factions watch in horror as men dawned in red, with giant shields and plumes charge and ravage through Heathmore with ease, like the blitskreig. Soon, one of the knights spotted Centurion, now a general dawned in either black or imperial purple, as he stabs down the banner of the restored Roman Empire. I like to see you try a video on that and see how it can work in For Honor, and what if centurion was removed if that ever happened, now part of the Vanguard, dawning a shield and fresh yet simple armor of his homeland, the assessin being the Arcani, probably being similar to the peacemaker with mixes of the shinobi, and the heavy being the eagle barer himself, with a strength of a lion, crushing his enemies with armor to rival that of the Lawbringer. I really wanna know your thoughts on this. it'd be awesome.
I have a whole dissertation that I can write about Apollyon and For Honor's philosophical question, but I'll try and keep this short.
The reason there has been a thousand years of war isn't because that's just how it is with humans, it's because violence and bloodshed begets more violence and bloodshed.
How many soldiers do you think have taken up arms because they saw their father killed and their mother SA'd, or their villages looted and burned. how many grudges do you think had been created between every clan? How many people saw all their loved ones slaughtered, mutilated and humiliated before their very eyes and wanted nothing more than to lash out?
I can even point to an example in the campaign: Ragnar. The Vikings didn't fight him because they wanted to fight him, he was hoarding food and feasting whilst everyone around his clan starved and had to fight for the most meagre of scraps.
I can even deconstruct apollyon to an extent, but that would basically require me writing 8 more paragraphs, so I'll end it here.
in my hearth apollyon is the better way to grasp for honor because of the sutulety of her philosophie
That is a rather interesting take on Javiks line on honor. Of course it makes sense for Javik to be pessimistic about it. Dude saw his whole civilization get eradicated, all that mattered to him was doing what needed to be done. Not that I disagree with you, sometimes the reasons we struggle and compete is simply based on our own principle.
I think for me the Javik line is in the context of the fact that the Protheans were destroyed and undermined by their traditional militaristic doctrines, Honor and duty had no answer for an enemy open to exploiting it and fighting without those same limits. Javiks character is informed by the Reaper victory and so he now fights with that same cold and calculating cunning, he’s unwilling to toe the line anymore because he knows it’s a losing battle.
One of the counterpoints I’ve always liked is that Honor and Duty as responsibilities ideally drive competence, because you know you are fighting with limitations and therefore must be disciplined to beat opponents without the same circumstances. Seek power not for its own sake but so that you fighting with one hand tied behind your back is the same as an enemy with 2.
What i find funny about the lore is that it's been 1000 years since a cataclysm. Which means three possibilities. Either the cataclysm happened in the year 1100 ad when all three were around then its the year 2100, which means they're past us and still in the past, it happened in the year 900 which would make it 1900 which is also astonishing, or the lame option, the cataclysm happened well before the knights were even a thing, the Vikings were just getting started and the samurai were in their heyday.
raven you should do some videos about the skins ... like what execution, emotes etc fits them the most , just like you have done with your legends
17:11 people leave out one big piece of context , the line is an excuse for “by any means to achieve my goal.” And while the quote isn’t great there a slight bit of merit if the honor has lost the ideals behind it that gave it value , the honor in for honor still holds value even when the initial reason is gone because in combat there honor is every aspect of them there culture, there own personal values and ideals , its the clash of each factions way of life , they don’t let there way of life decay behind them as they push forward.
Nurse Raven knight is so CUTE ^^
Anyone remember when the dev team spent resources on changing the voice lines for the OG cast of heroes instead of fixing the gameplay
You should do a dive what is honor in for honor game play why's. Why people try and play honorable to not honorable
nice
I want to emphasize that Horkos did not simply attack Mesoamerica, they sacked the great city of Tenochtitlan, the largest city on the continent the Ocelotl says so directly. Not to be heavy but pre-Hispanic cultures are usually represented very simply and the naming of the capital of the Aztec empire elevates it beyond generic ancient civilization.
Yes I'm aware. Just how one Arabic city would not represent the entire Arab world, but I was speaking more in a general sense than a literal one.
While I greatly prefer Apollyon, there is more to Astrea then surface level too , using Apollyon’s philosophy astrea would be sheep that filed its teeth into points dyed its body grey and gathered those scattered remains of the vast wolf pack by imitating but also twisting and warping the leaders ideals to suit her needs , shes using apollyon’s ideal as the excuse for her own they show that she warped Apollyon’s ideals with her name alone Astrea a goddess of justice the opposite of Apollyon a demon of destruction
This isn’t just good vs evil this is someone who didn’t have the same prowess ( if she had the same prowess as apollyon she wouldn’t have been imitating as hard , though this doesn’t mean shes weak , she wouldn’t be able to get the black stones to follow her if she wasn’t strong) but has a strong mind for people and using the sense of honor and respect the blackstone legion had for Apollyon she gathers them to achieve her own goals , its someone twisting the ground work to suit there purpose and thus losing the ideals that give honor meaning
Tldr theres more to Astrea and exploring other aspects of honor wouldn’t be possible without apollyon coming before her
Heathmore is the name of the continent 😂
Incorrect. According to former lead writer Ariadne MacGillivray, Heathmoor is located in what used to be Central Europe near Germany and Poland. That would make it a region, nation, or country.
@@RavenKnightYT so it's like Skyrim being a province with three separate countries and multiple factions fighting for power because (Valkenhim)?, Ashfeld, and the Dawn Empire are separate Nations