This is where combat manuevering is essential with the Higaran BCs, the Vaygr BCs have to line up the entire hull to fire the trinity cannons which do ALOT of damage, so if you can constantly manuever to stay out of their line of fire you can easily win since the Higaran BCs weapons are turreted.
Yup, but the Vagyr BC can maneuver too. It is pretty easy to attack the Hiigarian BC from above or below, negating half of its Ion Turrets (and thus nearly half of its DPS). These turrets can also be disabled, unlike the main battery of the Vagyr BC. They are both quite well balanced altogether and both benefit from positioning.
Well. I have to say that I honestly didn't expect the outcome. First I thought the Vaygr Battlecruisers would win, then I thought the Hiigaran ones would barely made it. The outcome was very unexpected but also fascinating.
Разверни Крейсеры Хиигар к вайграм двигателями. Двигатели впитают половину урона врага за бой. Таким образом три крейсера Хиигаран выиграют схватку без потерь. У них башни с ионными пушками вращаются на 360 градусов. Лично проверил)). Так работает ии игры.
In a properly mixed fleet, vaygr BCs have an advantage with their plasma array. If you disable the ion cannons with bombers you can easily pummle higarran BCs. Overall though, bombers and corvettes are your go to when dealing with capital class ships. Use BC to support frigate lines and decimate production ships. let your corvettes and bombers do the rest.
There is a reason that Higarian cruisers had a hanger. Mine always carried a group of bombers which worked with the cruiser to mop the floor with enemy cruisers.
Vaygr battle cruisers can also be severely handicapped by disabling their heavy missile systems. Without those they can easily be outflanked by multiple smaller Capital ships as their secondary batteries are fixed firing forward, where the Higarran cruisers have turreted secondary batteries.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon hence the bombers in my hangers. They are fast and do enough damage to disable systems rapidly. I usually had they target the engines so the vaygr could not bring their main battery to bare (they were dead in the water).
@Beuwen_The_Dragon You can disable the Vagyr BC's missiles and engines, but not the main battery. So in a big pitched battle, they are bigger threats, since they will most certainly still hit things even disabled. Meanwhile, the Hiigarian BC with its ion turrets disabled does very little damage. Thus, I think the Hiigarian BC is better in small numbers, whereas the Vagyr BC is better in bigger fights. Just my 2 cents here.
Shows good balancing when ships of completely different weapons end up tying. I always felt the missiles and pulse balls of the Vaygr battlecruisers were stronger because of the heavier burst damage, but they ended up being about the same as the sustained damage of Hiigaran battlecruisers' cannons and ion cannons. HW2 has this benefit of making each faction unique yet balanced. HW1 were just the same ships with different skins.
@@arthurtwp The Vaygr battlecruisers would actually win if they focus fire better. Those Trinity cannons do a lot of damage. However Vaygr BCs are a lot easier to flank around either by hyperspacing or just moving and are basically sitting ducks when engined by bombers.
@@hekkura by the time hyperspace window closes the bc would be finishing rotation. So, no you cant flank with hyperspace. Ships smaller than bc can just rotate around.
Disabling the Hiigarian BC's two Ion turrets is about the same in difficulty as taking out the missile pod and engines of a Vagyr BC. Without its ion Cannons, a Hiigarian BC has less DPS than a Destroyer, whereas the Vagyr BC still has its Trinity Cannon, which cannot be disabled. The Vagyr BC also has more point-defense cannons for killing bombers that try this. I'd call them equal in terms of ease of neutralization.
@@ZC.Andrew The Hiigaran has three subsystems to disable while the Vaygr has two. Worse, one of the Hiigaran subsystems is on their ships belly, making it harder to get in the camera frame to target it.
One of the Vaygr battlecruisers went full retard after firing off its trinity cannon and it didn't use it optimally afterwards. A lot if not most of the firepower is concentrated there, so it favored the Hiigarans. With focus fire and proper micro I'm sure the Vaygr battlecruisers will consistently win in a slugfest like this one.
I think that in remastered there was some sort of rebalance. In original HW2 Vaygr bc would take those Hiigaran ones even faster, and losiong maybe one
Without any manuevering, yes. But the Hiigaraan battlecruisers can easily outflank the Vaygr ones and strafe them with their ion beams while being safe from the trinity cannons.
If you really want to represent a fight between these ships, you should use all their capabilities. When designed, Higarian ship builders realized the short comings of their new cruiser and included a hanger to address it.
@@PraetorPaktu that said, even a group of scouts in each Higarian cruiser would have turned the tide. When I run cruisers, I usually have them carry bombers and have them destroy the engines of the Vaygr cruisers. Then they can't bring their big canons to bare. At that point it is an easy win.
Vaygr battlecruisers have a range advantage with the trinity cannon, if you move attack backwards you can beat a Hig BC as long as both have similar speeds [meaning you either both dont have your BC speed upgrade or both do]
my plan is use the Vaygr BC to carry some bombers and fighters squads. made a lot of bombers and fighters first and try to make the BC as Vast as u can. later update the BC to work like a carrier inside the bays u can reapair only so u need to launch one squad and repair others, this is my juggernout plan lol its invencible.
The Vaygrs should have the advantage due they have higher fire range on their trinity laser cannon so they attack first plus their devastating firepower, hiigaran advantage should only be the turreted attacks, on Remastered their maneuverability is reduced which puts vaygr in high disadvantage, on classic they are not dancing there as in remastered when attacking in bunches.
This is where combat manuevering is essential with the Higaran BCs, the Vaygr BCs have to line up the entire hull to fire the trinity cannons which do ALOT of damage, so if you can constantly manuever to stay out of their line of fire you can easily win since the Higaran BCs weapons are turreted.
Yeah a draw when you are playing to your advantage isn't good.
relying on maneuvering is already last resort damage control. if you prepare for battle adequately then enemy battlecruisers are ants before a torrent
Yup, but the Vagyr BC can maneuver too. It is pretty easy to attack the Hiigarian BC from above or below, negating half of its Ion Turrets (and thus nearly half of its DPS). These turrets can also be disabled, unlike the main battery of the Vagyr BC. They are both quite well balanced altogether and both benefit from positioning.
@@ZC.Andrew I always have bombers disable the vagyr main batteries first, afterwards its just easy
Well. I have to say that I honestly didn't expect the outcome. First I thought the Vaygr Battlecruisers would win, then I thought the Hiigaran ones would barely made it.
The outcome was very unexpected but also fascinating.
Same here. I guess the dev balance the ships well.
Разверни Крейсеры Хиигар к вайграм двигателями. Двигатели впитают половину урона врага за бой. Таким образом три крейсера Хиигаран выиграют схватку без потерь. У них башни с ионными пушками вращаются на 360 градусов. Лично проверил)). Так работает ии игры.
This reminds me of all the time I've gone to melee in halo just to end trading final blows
This is how long frigate battles should last
In a properly mixed fleet, vaygr BCs have an advantage with their plasma array. If you disable the ion cannons with bombers you can easily pummle higarran BCs. Overall though, bombers and corvettes are your go to when dealing with capital class ships. Use BC to support frigate lines and decimate production ships. let your corvettes and bombers do the rest.
There is a reason that Higarian cruisers had a hanger. Mine always carried a group of bombers which worked with the cruiser to mop the floor with enemy cruisers.
Vaygr battle cruisers can also be severely handicapped by disabling their heavy missile systems. Without those they can easily be outflanked by multiple smaller Capital ships as their secondary batteries are fixed firing forward, where the Higarran cruisers have turreted secondary batteries.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon hence the bombers in my hangers. They are fast and do enough damage to disable systems rapidly. I usually had they target the engines so the vaygr could not bring their main battery to bare (they were dead in the water).
@Beuwen_The_Dragon You can disable the Vagyr BC's missiles and engines, but not the main battery. So in a big pitched battle, they are bigger threats, since they will most certainly still hit things even disabled. Meanwhile, the Hiigarian BC with its ion turrets disabled does very little damage. Thus, I think the Hiigarian BC is better in small numbers, whereas the Vagyr BC is better in bigger fights. Just my 2 cents here.
Shows good balancing when ships of completely different weapons end up tying. I always felt the missiles and pulse balls of the Vaygr battlecruisers were stronger because of the heavier burst damage, but they ended up being about the same as the sustained damage of Hiigaran battlecruisers' cannons and ion cannons. HW2 has this benefit of making each faction unique yet balanced. HW1 were just the same ships with different skins.
Given how much easier it is to cripple a Vaygr battlecruiser, I'd say this outcome favors the Hiigarans
From memory though. The front cannons on the vagyr battlecruiser that are not hardpointed do a lot more damage.
@@arthurtwp The Vaygr battlecruisers would actually win if they focus fire better. Those Trinity cannons do a lot of damage.
However Vaygr BCs are a lot easier to flank around either by hyperspacing or just moving and are basically sitting ducks when engined by bombers.
@@hekkura by the time hyperspace window closes the bc would be finishing rotation. So, no you cant flank with hyperspace. Ships smaller than bc can just rotate around.
Disabling the Hiigarian BC's two Ion turrets is about the same in difficulty as taking out the missile pod and engines of a Vagyr BC. Without its ion Cannons, a Hiigarian BC has less DPS than a Destroyer, whereas the Vagyr BC still has its Trinity Cannon, which cannot be disabled. The Vagyr BC also has more point-defense cannons for killing bombers that try this. I'd call them equal in terms of ease of neutralization.
@@ZC.Andrew The Hiigaran has three subsystems to disable while the Vaygr has two. Worse, one of the Hiigaran subsystems is on their ships belly, making it harder to get in the camera frame to target it.
One of the Vaygr battlecruisers went full retard after firing off its trinity cannon and it didn't use it optimally afterwards. A lot if not most of the firepower is concentrated there, so it favored the Hiigarans. With focus fire and proper micro I'm sure the Vaygr battlecruisers will consistently win in a slugfest like this one.
yeah he was like "lol whats goin on down there better take a look"
Crazy how that worked out
I think that in remastered there was some sort of rebalance. In original HW2 Vaygr bc would take those Hiigaran ones even faster, and losiong maybe one
Without any manuevering, yes. But the Hiigaraan battlecruisers can easily outflank the Vaygr ones and strafe them with their ion beams while being safe from the trinity cannons.
i love the look of the Vaygr BCs
Talk about a Pyhrric victory...
Now that's balance!
Homeworld remastered collection free on epic games starting July 27th.
that's actually very good balance
Vaygr capital ships are more focused on fighting other capitals while higaran are good at taking care of escorts while their escorts fight capitals.
If you really want to represent a fight between these ships, you should use all their capabilities. When designed, Higarian ship builders realized the short comings of their new cruiser and included a hanger to address it.
Ok and? this is not a showcase for ships, this is a experiment.
@@PraetorPaktuHaving worked under laboratory conditions, I can say this experiment is an incomplete one.
@@RoadWarden ok.
@@PraetorPaktu that said, even a group of scouts in each Higarian cruiser would have turned the tide. When I run cruisers, I usually have them carry bombers and have them destroy the engines of the Vaygr cruisers. Then they can't bring their big canons to bare. At that point it is an easy win.
@@RoadWarden lol cringe comment
Vaygr battlecruisers have a range advantage with the trinity cannon, if you move attack backwards you can beat a Hig BC as long as both have similar speeds [meaning you either both dont have your BC speed upgrade or both do]
Here's what I wanted to know. Why didn't you target subsystems?
These battles are meant to have no player input since that will give one side an unfair advantage.
you just have to wonder if you repeat the same scenario a 100 times how different would the outcome be. This seems like its very even.
my plan is use the Vaygr BC to carry some bombers and fighters squads. made a lot of bombers and fighters first and try to make the BC as Vast as u can. later update the BC to work like a carrier inside the bays u can reapair only so u need to launch one squad and repair others, this is my juggernout plan lol its invencible.
If I go down I'm taking you with me
The Vaygrs should have the advantage due they have higher fire range on their trinity laser cannon so they attack first plus their devastating firepower, hiigaran advantage should only be the turreted attacks, on Remastered their maneuverability is reduced which puts vaygr in high disadvantage, on classic they are not dancing there as in remastered when attacking in bunches.
Beautiful design but I do miss the extra heavy cruisers extra heavy frigates and capital ships because the old game was so over the top
Can you do one with 1 Gun Platforms vs Fighters? I heard platforms where nerfed.
Good idea
@@PraetorPaktu Also if you want another experiment, try using the Defense Field Frigate against X of your choice.
@@Guelo6891 I sadly don't think any Defence Field ships will work with this stuff. since all the ships are technically on the same team
@@PraetorPaktu Ah, I understand.
Since when kiith paktu uses vaygr battlecruisers?
Since they stole it lmao
в космосе нет звука
Why does it takes so long, it's the same as 10 years ago
huh?
Mirror balancing + predictable HW2 RNG mechanics = YAWN BORING
k