MUST WATCH Before Buying!! Mirage Drive Vs Pedal Drives
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2018
- After fishing extensively in both of these kayaks for 3 years, I felt it was time to share my thoughts on the Hobie Mirage Drive versus pedal drive kayak systems, particularly the Native Watercraft Slayer Propel drive. Now I absolutely loved fishing both kayaks. I'd buy each one of these again. I'd definitely buy native watercraft titan if I wanted a solid reservoir rig, I could outfit with motors. For tournament fishing the Hobie definitely excels as it can deal with more bodies of water and vegetation situations. Pedals drives performance in grass and pads is poor, and if you think that doesnt matter then by all means give it a try. Pedal drives excel when fishing docks, laydowns, and maintaining boat position in wind. I also use to say that with pedal drive kayaks you can fish the way you want, and this really comes from being able to control your kayak in the wind and position the kayak in a way that makes casting easier.....also pedal drives give you breaks and hands free...and that simply cannot be beat!
Categories for judging:
Sound
Storage
Power
Fish-a-bilty
2017 Skeeter ZX250
Hobie Pro Angler 12
Nativewatercraft slayer propel 13
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Two more benefits of the Mirage for me.
1) When you stop peddling the fins are feathered so almost no drag whereas propeller blades have substantial drag.
2) I like the back and forth motion of the pedals which keeps my feet lower, less lower back strain, but of course that may not bother you if you're under 60.
Excellent points. I'm also "over 60".
@@garycox7839 I'll add another, for the 360 drive at least... not only can you get into shallow water without having to remove the drive, and not only can you still pedal in shallow water to move forward or backward, but with the 360 drive I can still rotate the drive when the fins are all the way "up" against the hull to change direction. I can't remember if you can pull the reverse tab on the 180 drives while the fins are up against the hull, but I swear I remember being able to do so.
Better for your knees as well.
Well I'm all fished out from sitting here on the couch watching, so that was awesome.
Great review! Been looking around for kayaks for uk coastal waters and now sold on the Hobie 👍🏼
Great review, you pointed out some things I wouldn't have thought to ask that are important. Great job!
Great way to explain it. I fish docks and structure. Prop for me, I got the Manta ray propel. It really does depend on what and where you fish.
I have and have had Hobies for a long time. I also have a Native Ultamate Propel. One day Id like to move up to a Titan or Maybe a Slayer. I will add this about the drives. The Hobie drive works best with their Kayaks that use the sail, but are higher maintenance then the propel drive. While both need maintenance from time to time, more parts will ware out sooner on the Mirage. The rods in the fins will ware through at the tips, cable tension needs adjustment, a lot more moving parts to come lose. And I just have the forward only kind. The propel is almost all internal and sealed from the elements and just need grease from time to time. About the only thing that may need replacing is the prop, and thats only if it bumps into stuff a lot. Once I got a prop driven kayak, there was no looking back as far as fishing. The Mirage still has its place for me when it comes to kayak sailing.
Very timely and informative for me. I am down to two choices, Jackson Coosa FD and Outback. I demoed the FD this week and have concern of the noise it makes...but totally sold on the idea of tucking it away either by choice or by hitting something (hopefully straight on). Will be subscribing...very well spoken and unbiased.
Awesome! I loved them both in all honesty. Luckily the slayer paddled fairly well soo when needed I just lifted the drive....but the hobie platform is just better and it's lighter....way way lighter than the Titan
Really well done video. Thanks for getting out good info on these yaks.
Hope this helps with making a tough decision! I've fished both and really loved fishing both. I'd buy either one again.
Thank you for the comparison. I currently own a hobie and thinking of getting a native prop drive for second. Definatley both have pros and cons.
Yeah buddy both excellent kayaks
Nice breakdown!💯💪👊LET'S GO!!!
Thanks a lot, you taught me what I needed to know !
about to buy my first kayak...appreciate the comparison. Guns Up!
Good video, and since it was published in 2018, it should be noted that many of the positive aspects of the Mirage drive are the same as in the Jackson Flex Drive-it is actually a hybrid in many respects. It tucks into the hull, it can be used in shallow mode and had three pitch settings for the prop. You really don't need to take the upper pedal mechanism off, since it looks totally integrated into the kayak on first glimpse. It will also very soon (January 2019) have an electric drive/integrated battery that can be popped on in a matter of seconds. I have seen many bent masts on mirage drives, so their use in waters where there is underwater wood is somewhat over-rated in this video. The FD folds into the hull when it hits something. Also- not to pick nits- a laydown is "cover", not "structure". Structure is the underwater topography and bottom composition (points, ledeges, rock-piles, etc). I'm also not on any pro-staff whatsoever and have fished out of several makes as well.
Hey Lou: Nicely compared; your video will definitely inform consumers. Ironically, most are probably watching AFTER buying.
Thanks!
I haven't bought yet and im researching which one i should get.
You have to know the price difference between the propelled system and the other one. I just bought one and it was 500 euros cheaper. Of course on discount but haven't seen the others on reasonable discount yet here in Europe. They are superior over the propelled so they remain at higher price point.
Great insights. If anything was perfect we would all be doing it. You have to choose your gear by what you do most often. They all have high and low points.
That they do! I seriously loved both pedal and fin.
Own my third Native slayer max and totally agree. Never thought of reaching down while standing to turn the prop. With my lack of balance that sounds like a comedy in the making. Thanks for the info
Good stuff!
With the "New" Propeller from Native, it is much quieter (Less Cavitation!), although I DO think it loses some speed.
Where I mostly fish, I can't use the Hobie drive system... too many darn STUMPS, just below the surface! Tried an Outback for a day, and 5 times had to re-bend the vanes back, just to get back in to shore! One thing I DID like about the Hobie is: it can go in shallower water than the prop drives.
(I have a Titan now, and a "Paddle Driven 'Yak" - for a "Spare and Friends", for fishing).
Thanks for the informative video, and YES!... The Propel Drive DOES make more noise, with either prop!
Good video man! Was doing some research for a podcast and this has almost all the info I'm looking for! I'll be share to share the link with everyone!
Awesome glad you liked it
Love the Orion cooler, too! Thanks for the info :)
No problem orion is a great cooler
This is the best review of the drive systems for kayak anglers! Thank you and great job! Haven't noticed too many others talk about the realistic aspect of fatigue while fishing & how it can ruin a day. Now to figure out which prop drive & kayak🤔
Great product. You guys are so far ahead with HPB's in north America than in the UK. We have to make our own. There's nothing available for canals and rivers. I built 'Newt III' a canal cabin cruiser, there's endless possibilities here in the UK but no far sighted manufacturers. Lewis
This was very helpful, thank you! However I am still torn between the perception pescador pedal drive and the hobie compass, still leaning towards the perception though because I am always having to back away from trees and docks.
Great break down of the drives. I can’t wait to get a pedal drive, but I need to catch more fish before I can justify it.
This is an old post but I enjoyed the great information even from people leaving some informative replys.
I really appreciate your insights on this video. I am down to deciding against the Coosa FD and the Outback for my new kayak.
Awesome man I hope it helped too not hear the standard pro staff talk about how everything is the best in the world
That's useful information. Well done, thanks.
Really good breakdown of both drives! I wonder what the noise from both drives is like underwater? how much louder to the fish is the pedal vs mirage? I have the Predator PDL and will be doing a lot of trolling at night for walleye this spring and am wondering if i'm going to need to look at using planer boards to get a little bit away from my kayak
I love how I dont have to maintain my hobie drive unless I accidentally bend the metal rods. My old jon boat with motor limited me to half a day of fishing. Now I can fish all day and camp overnight without having to charge a stupid battery.
The Nucanoe has an awesome looking drive system. Although being extremely expensive.
A very good fair review . Keep up the good work . One thing I don't like about mirage drives , is that open hole in the floor where waves are constantly pushing up cold water into he floor of the yak .
I'll be honest I literally never had that issue....but I don't fish Salt either, is that where you experienced that issue? I will say the slayer held water in the floor so my feet were always wet....just ain't a perfect yak out there, but I loved both
Thanks for the info. I've been looking for this info. (shout out to Maryland!)
Nice man thanks for watching
thanks sir..good info..give me a little bit idea how it work and what to choose in the future.. 👍
Thanks for the info, I'm getting ready to buy a pdl yak. I like the old town 10.6 pdl, the hobie revo 11 also looks good to me too... I'm on the fence 🤣
I bought the das-king kratos, peddle drive and bought the motor also. Buck for buck the kratos costs less & still gets you out on the water. My fear with a Hobie is shallower water with the drive down and busting off if you come on to a rock pile to quickly. Hobie financially is more money but if your only buying it to brag about how much it cost to your buddies , well you get what you pay for , buy what you can afford and have fun out on the water.
The power/fatigue factor has as much to do with your kayak hull design as the torque generated by your drive. I've always wondered how each drive would perform in the other brand's hull.
Best mirage vs. prop drive video I've seen.
Thank you
Going to have to test drive Hobie one of these days. Used ones never pop up though in my area and damn new ones are crazy expensive. The new vibe shear water looks interesting and price isn't horrible. Doesn't have reverse which sucks but I could probably live with it for my needs.
Also debating buying a island hopper transom trolling motor and tossing it on my current kayak. Have to register it though.
Thank you man for nice and fair comparison, but should ask that how about repairability? which one is low cost, simple to repair or finding spare units etc..
Nicely done. I am also finding plus/ minuses to both styles of drives. I’m leaning towards the prop kind as being better for my applications.
Man I loved a prop drive. The Propel drive is a fantastic drive! I put that thing thru the ringer. Its fish ability is awesome. And with the decks on the Titans....they closed the gap on Hobie IMO. But the hobie will always be a hobie, and thats what makes it a beast
BeyondTheBounds true. I was thoroughly impressed with the PA in the marsh.
Very fair comparison and great video I have to agree with everything you said and give you props, no pun intended because you picked the drive that gave you the most control for the type of fishing you do. It would be great if the Mirage drive could engage without reaching down but I guess every system has its weaknesses! Thanks for the fair comparison and unbiased review I think it will help those on the fence make a decision.
Hi there... New to your channel thank you for the info this video has helped me made up my mind... Again thank you!
Good review from someone who obviously knows from being there. A little much with complaints on size and transport with only a pick one solution that is.
From the onset, I was hoping with the devotion to the sport and innovativeness he usually displays that he may have come up with a secure generic mounting solution to share etc.
Above all though as always with this guy, I absolutely learn and benefit from his videos and consider them a real resource.
Thanks once again for caring enough to share your experience in such a well thought out and down to earth way.
Wow thank you for the comment!
Lots of help. Thank you
Good review, sensible aware presentation 👍
1st Quarter 2019 will try hard to purchase my Hobie pedal kayak. Touch wood.✏
GREAT video with honest information. Good job.
Thank you i try my best to be fair and accurate and base my reviews on years of experience
Monty Craig.........First off, this man did a good job on sharing the pro's & con's of the different drive systems for kayaks, pure & simple. Secondly, the Twin Troller is on a whole different level than ANY kayak with ANY design, and there's now DOZENS of TT owners who bought high-end kayaks before discovering the Twin Troller, and when they eventually did & researched them, they all SOLD those kayaks because they liked the Twin Troller much better. SEE THE OWNER REVIEWS. And they definitely are no comparison whatsoever to any piece of cheap junk Pelican type pontoon boat made in 2 pieces from plastic milk jugs. Lastly, you're only here to start trouble with me, and nothing else, you JACK ASS. Only idiotic critics like you pull this crap. Elite pro angler Marty Stone loves the TT so much, he included them in his own store. B.A.S.S. founder Ray Scott was so impressed, he bought TWO Twin Trollers. Why don't you go try starting trouble with those guys, you coward. I'm sick & tired of freaks like you & your childish games, any time, I'm right here in central Florida, you just come on down. Now GET LOST. Try acting like a real man for once in your life.
Monty Craig.........Don't even try to insult my intelligence with a back-peddling, sanctimonious explanation to try & come off so "innocent" & "confused. That's total BS. Your original response to me was indeed meant to start trouble, you know it, and I know it. Any grown man who can't comprehend the fact I can praise a gentleman for giving a great review/comparison between kayak drive systems, even though I own a Twin Troller? I'M NOT BUYING THAT LAME EXCUSE TO TAKE A PERSONAL STAB AT ME. "You've been researching for a year".........yet you say: "Your Twin Troller THINGY". I see right through you mister. You biased haters of the Twin Troller are all alike. So you take your sanctimonious fake explanation & BUZZ OFF.
Monty the TROLL........So WHY are you still running your mouth. YOU started this by butting into a favorable comment I posted on this channel, bringing up my Twin Troller out of the blue. Anyone who is truly interested in the Twin Troller has near unlimited information & videos to see, and they don't say stupid crap like you just did. "Sorry for the drama Lou"........THAT'S BS. YOU STARTED THIS.........JACK ASS. You aren't even capable of taking your medicine & walk away. You're NOT impressing anyone here with your smug tactics. I don't accept FAKE "apologies" offered from a sanctimonious angle. You were looking for trouble with me, AND YOU FOUND IT. YOU ASKED FOR IT. So for the last time, BUZZ OFF. Happy Trails........next time, maybe you'll avoid asking for trouble the way you did.
Chuck Peacock.........For your information, I am NOT affiliated with the company whatsoever, I never "posted a video link" anywhere here, I've never posted a video link in my life. So you need to lay off the dope.......and I happen to own a Twin Troller that I bought new, nearly 2 years ago.........JACK ASS. Furthermore, I don't give a rat's ass WHAT you think.
great video. I want a peddle drive after having a pescador 12' for so long. I appreciate all the tips. Just so you know the mirage drive seems to be better after your insight. Thanks
Cannot go wrong with either but having had both amd being hardcore native i would buy hobie first...but loved both
Great video man!
I've found my Mirage is so quiet and I'm not swinging a big paddle around like regular kayakers that I can get very close to birds on the water. They don't get spooked by the Mirage.
I made a plexiglass washer for my prop drive to cut down the space for grass and hydrilla to wrap the prop. Works most of the time.
Seen this done before great idea
Very specific and helpful comments !
Excellent glad it was helpful
I really enjoyed your comparison vid on both drives. As an older sportsman , i will be 64 next month and was wondering your opinion on the most user friendly . I have never paddled a kayak. But have paddled a canoe all my life. And some days you just get blown off the water in a canoe not a really good platform espically alone. Can be impossible to get any fishing done as the profile of the canoe catches alot more breeze/wind. Can you comment about wind pushing kayaks?
Having owned a wilderness 135 prop and now have a hobie outback. I would not trade the hobie for anything and I’ve gotten pretty good with the reverse. Not a problem. The wilderness was fast and was great in the lakes but I fish salt water and oyster beds. The wilderness did not handle as well in flats and oyster beds, you might as well have a paddle kayak. I believe it reall depends where you fish most of the time. Both were and are great kayaks.
Nice comment thanks!
thaks for shearing your knowledge.
Does t say anything about mirage drive going through much shallower water then prop drive. That was my deciding factor. Much more versatile!! Can go through rivers and streams much easier then a prop drove. U are stuck to lakes, ponds, and oceans for prop drives. Unless it's a deep River but I love having the versatility of the Hobie mirage drive!
Excellent info! Thanks.
Im coming from float tube fishing (which gives amazing control and positioning) to kayak fishing and trying to decide which drive system will work best for me. I fish shallow mostly and really value the ability to back away from structure once i hook a fish. sounds like the push drive is really just more portable and can do shallow better and safer. I dont need maximum power just good enough. So I am leaning to prop drive.
Excellent video. Sub and like. Thanks!
Reverse is very beneficial...hands free is worth it.
I keep seeing Hobie cracks in the hull from the mirage drive? Elias V has had a few crack on him now. Once the hull cracks in that spot your screwed - no easy fix.
Thanks, very helpful.
Great rewiev thanks a lot🤘🏻
Was that trap pond you were at when explaining the standing? I got my hotel all booked for July. Gonna try to hit a couple places down there. Great review
Oh that is Trussum...it's right up the road and a absolute must!
Another big issue is durability. I know a handful of guys with the propel drive that have pulled their yak out after the winter and the propel drive is seized. Water finds its way into the bearings and they rust up and seize during the off season.
All these drives are made with somewhat delicate parts. You need to maintain them, inspect them, grease them. And don't trust them.
Agreed. but ive seen guys dump their yaks launching and lose their mirage drive, dig them out of the sand at low tide a week later, rinse it off in the salt water, and slap in in their yak and go. Not doing that with a propel drive. You can also bring spare parts and repair a mirage drive right on the water. Or fit a spare in the hatch..
Great, useful info, well done!
I haven't yet seen any mention of this, but I tore the outside of my achilles tendon last year when I got a Hobie. Granted, I was having a lot of fun, racing my bud with a paddle kayak. I think the full circular motion uses more muscles so you get more
First sorry bout that ...that stinks..i can only speak to my experience and i was less tired with the mirage
I'm trying to decide between the Predator pal and a Hobie. The reverse thing really has me leaning toward the Predator.
Nice review I’m going to go with the prop drive for my 1st Kayak. I have always loved the comfort of the Jon Boat and all the tackle I can carry but I want to start getting to places my Jonny Boat can’t go. Never thought I’d buy a Kayak because my god the space is little to none but the success I have seen out weighs the discomfort. Hope all goes well. Very interested in compare the JonBoat vs Kayak.
That's a good choice I love hands free reverse and being able to stand and reverse
there is now 2 types of propel drives.. one is the belt and the other is a propellor pedal drive.. which are 2 different ones.. the belt is the older version that makes the hummings sounds due to the belt.. the new version is allot more silent
A lot of kayakers will tell you the prop drive requires more energy and will wear you out faster. Good review!
Very true! It does.
The Coosa FD is based on the top selling Coosa HD hull and deck layout but adds a long-awaited Flex Drive system (patent pending) allowing for hands-free propulsion. The new Flex Drive System offers forward and reverse operation and includes a unique articulating system for deep and shallow water navigation. A daggerboard protected tri-blade propeller combined with articulation gives the Flex Drive a performance increase over other drives and helps with keeping the system clear of obstacles and easy to clean. The Coosa FD comes with the fore-aft trimming and our Hi-Lo Elite Seat System giving it flexibility in seating positions that puts the pedaler in the most comfortable position possible. The Flex Drive is easily deployed with the flip of a lever, has adjustable pitch, a 1:12 ratio and will be upgradable to a new motor drive system available in 2018. The Coosa FD has all the the features of the best-selling Coosa HD, from rod tip protection system to gear track surrounding the Ergo Seat and more. The combination of one of the best designed all-around kayaks and the new Flex Drive makes this a leading combination for hands-free kayak angling!
Awesome video and great insight. The two biggest reasons I'm going with a titan 10.5 is the ability for hands free reverse and the price. I will say this though, your video makes it clear to me, that if Hobie comes out with a competitively priced 10.5 PA, and the technology for hands free reverse (however that would work) they would probably steal a lot of market share from Titan. Being able to pedal through weeds and grass would be really nice
Thanks love them both
Check out the Twin Troller, it's even nicer.
Small Water TV you are a troll alright
Why do you say that? Because I think a Twin Troller is a better option than sticking propulsion systems in kayaks?
The Twin Troller has hands free reverse. It has 100% hands free, spin in a 360 degree circle with 6-8 inch draft in full operation.
Very good approach.
Great video. Very informative.
Aaron Fetterman ii
More kayak fishing! 😀👍
So I think it's better to have mirage and propeler drives (only the drives and not to have 2 kayaks).
Is it possible to replace the drive depending on the fishing spot?
Great review. Thanks.
Next time you do one of these comparisons, include the Jackson FD, it blows everything away.
Too bad you haven't had exposure to the other drives. The Wilderness drive is on par with the Mirage IMO. A lot of the issues you have with the Propel are not there with the Helix.. quick raise, quiet, easy storage etc.. nice to see someone not saying Hobie is the end all be all.
Thanks man and i agree...i always try to keep it fair despite how native treated as prostaff. Both yaks are solid i loved hobie more but seriously missed reverse...ill give the wildy a try
BeyondTheBounds I fished a salmon derby last fall with a bunch of Hobie guys, a guy in a propel and a bunch of Radars. The quick reverse of the prop drive was awesome when you would hook up and need to get out of the mix..
Great video. The reverse was why I didnt buy a hobie. Theres certain situations the mirage seems great but when Im bass fishing the reverse is key. I ended up buying the Titan 12.
100% agree. Instant reverse and hands free reverse is definitely worth the money. Glad for your purchase
I have a couple of "Paddle" 'Yaks, and a Titan. I'm seriously considering getting the Hobie PA-12 (nearly as heavy as my Titan, but with less space/maneuverability!). Only thing is, will I be satisfied with spending THAT much money - even selling the Titan, I'll have to come up with a couple of "G's"...!
(Maybe I'll just wait, and save for one "On-Sale" this Winter...!) Haha!
Very informative comparison, probably one of the best as of right now. My only question (apologies if i missed it in the video) but why did you get rid of your Hobie?
I bought a boat
Nothing like a great electric motor. Yes, the battery is heavy but advantages are huge.
I bought a Lithium marine battery, it’s practically weightless compared to a regular one. New technology and costs a fortune but definitely a huge weight advantage.
Very informative.
But I have a question: ERGONOMICS
How ergonomic they are. I have read that mirage is better than pedal... for people with back issues (me) mirage is better just because the ergonomics. I would love to know your opinions about this matter
I'm building a 15' cat. What do you think about peddle power are boat?? I'm thinking with two 48" props with a big pitch low RPMs it would push a small boat. Do you think it will work??
Great review!
Good info! Thanks!
Brother Thanks for this video! I liked commented and subscribed lol This is super cool! I needed to see this. The only thing I need to do now is price shop! I don't mind dropping 3k on the perfect kayak! But for my first one my budget will be around $1300. Hopefully I can find something nice. Even if its used lol
Try Facebook
Most of the noise you hear with the propeller drive is caused by cavitation of the blades through the water. They spin very fast at a high rpm causing the creation of air bubbles under the kayak.
Think that only applies to motor driven blades there. I cant believe a person can match those rpm speeds with leg power
I’m new to the kayak world. Are drive systems something that you can interchange regardless of brand of kayak?
sensational! Congrats on the video! I also have a reed that talks about kayaking Fishing at a glance and make your application. hug
Love that sound!
Dude the slayer would rub in the hull hole and squeak awfully. I loved the quietness of long pedals in the hobie.
BeyondTheBounds maybe I'm used to the sound, the Hobie sound to me is not as nice tactacatacataca
I think you swallowed five jugs of the native koolaid hahaha....the hum of the native drive...never bothered me...the excessive creaking squeaking of the drive in the hole drove me nuts...I put down tape right where it contacted the top of the hull....that fixed the issue
BeyondTheBounds nah it was Bonafide cool aid lol that thing is sweet i tested it yesterday I think I'm in love lol, I feel my slayer is too old needs a re design
Might also consider warranty work. Not all towns have Hobie or pedal drive dealers. Lucky for me there are both nearby.
Awesome point man
Good video. I have a unrelated question. Was the desk in the video custom made or is it something available for purchase?
First one to ask. That was a custom desk built by closets of america...they can build prettt much anything
Hi, I saw that you fished at Centennial Lake. I'm thinking about buying a kayak for fishing. You have a lot of knowledge about kayak.. The pros and cons. Do you think it's helpful to meet locals and learn from them?
Thanks man!
I have used my hands many times to go in reverse lol
Sounds like you like the Mirage drive better. You gave it way more points. Why did you switch to prop drive?
Excellent video thumps up.
Have you looked at the Jackson FD? Seems like it goes a ways toward answering some of the prop drives issues.
I've seen it and the good thing is native isn't the only pedal drive in town. But their drive is truly proven in my mind