Great video but I found the title misleading. I have always felt that Alternate Costs to be distinct from additional costs. They seem to be used interchangeably in the video, just my opinion.
@@DoodleStein Taking a wild guess, they read the title in the thumbnail, which doesn't include the additional (admittedly that still leaves the possibility of the title being edited, but that's what I did, and I only noticed when you pointed it out)
@@DoodleSteinyes the title include both from the get go and that guy knew it.BUT is reads: additional/alternate cost ,as if they are the same or very similar.should have made two distinct vid about these two mechanic,as they are far from even slightly similar
Gaea's Balance doesn't put the lands in tapped, so it's slightly mana positive if you float the mana from the fifth land you sac before casting the spell. It's still really awkward, but the mana cost is misleading.
@Benjilabu That's part of why it's still a really awkward spell. They just didn't seem to understand how the mana for the spell plays out in the section about it.
Since Gaea’s Balance only looks for a land with a basic type, not specifically basic lands: you can put nonbasics, duals or triomes in if they have the land type. Also you can go up +1 instead of being card neutral if you have Wastes. The closest I can imagine to meaningfully going mana positive would be with Nissa WSTW or High Tide and getting a few more forests/islands in play than the card seems to at first. But really I can't think of any deck that'd want to risk the cost. Maybe some kind of lands or landfall deck would.
@@durianthesleepy You can't get a Waste with Gaea's Balance. You have to get lands with basic land types and Wastes don't have land types. That's kind of their whole thing.
I was just thinking thia, gaeas balance may have a place in 5 color decks, especially if they can fork spells. Imagine paying 6 mana and getting 10 untapped lands. Thats the ceiling, but the floor (other than not being able to cast) is simply go positive 2 mana
Fifth Dawn had so many cards that would help you generate mana of any color that it was relatively easy to generate WUBRG very early in the game. Even the set mechanic "sunburst" would benefit from paying mana costs with as many different colors as possible.
Devouring Greed was reprinted in a Masters set for a reason - it's not a bad card, it's just not part of any competitive decks. It's right on-rate for mana cost of a drain effect (2+X for X drain is the typical cost) and if you care about death triggers or have spirits with death effects, it's an enabler while also being surprisingly effective as a game closer in casual matches. It's not an awesome card, pretty average power level in casual matches, but while it's not going to win you any GPs or events like that, it's far from being one of the worst added/alternate costs ever printed. Now, make it Devouring *RAGE* and you have a point... literally the same cost, but costs 5 to give a creature +3/+0 plus an extra +3/+0 for each spirit sacrificed. Doesn't give Trample, doesn't give anything else to help it go through, it's just all-around bad.
I used to have a mono red commander deck that would combo various rituals into twist allegiance + soulblast. I would trade someone's entire board with mine, send that board at another player, and then soulblast another player or the player I stole the creatures from, getting my entire board back in the process. It was absolutely incredibly difficult to pull off but so so so satisfying when I did.
in the case of the Bringers, Black is the better of the bunch for its ability to vampiric tutor anything (only during your upkeep), and I do admit that, despite treasure tokens supplying the colors for example, it's still a niche application (I do run it in my Archmage Eternal commander deck, but it's still a VERY slow tutor that is killed on sight, and I'm VERY frugal, so no easy way to get solid tutors)
@@louiskemner3216 That's the problem, though. Some of the cards mentioned were essentially axes/spears when everyone else was using clubs at the time of their printing. That is to say, when they first came to exist, they were actually good. It's only when they're reviewed in a more modern "gun vs pointed stick" context do they suddenly seem bad. Of course, Foil is still played despite this in Pauper so even the list itself has evaluation issues in that same modern context it's trying to use for comparison.
How did the likes of Wood Elemental and Barrel Down Sokenzan not make the list? You're required to mana-screw yourself to use them. And unlike Gaea's Balance, you don't get lands/mana in exchange.
I like the video but I was kind of confused about what cards are eligible for this list. Are we rating the Worst Costs to pay to cast a spell? Or just cards that are bad that happen to have an alternate/additional cost? Pitching a red card on your opponent’s turn isn’t a bad cost. But Force of Rage is just a bad card. Dealing a bunch of damage to any target is good if it’s game winning. But sacrificing your entire board is a bad cost.
Foil at #6???? You're tweaking. Foil has got a lot of competitive pedigree compared with the BS cards below it. Has seen Pauper play and a lot of play in standard back in the day (being in the same block Daze and Gush were in definitely helped make the alt cost easier tho)
Fascinating how an alternate/additional cost can ruin a card entirely. And a reminder that it's okay to let loose sometimes. Now, do cards that are seemingly overpowered but are surprisingly balanced. For example: Back to Nature. 2-mana instant wrath for enchantments. Turns out, there's rarely a time you need to destroy enchantments by the bulk. And that it's better to run multiple Natural State or Nature's Claim.
10. tbf Devouring Greed was a Kamigawa card, which was a spirit focused set. (especially thinking about Zuberas, who were build around seeing other Zubera spirits die (When Zubera dies, xxx for each Zubera that died this turn.) , so sacking them all together at the same time would be good). but as most Kamigawa cards, even with its own sets spirit support, it was generally underpowered...
Worth mentioning that any indestructible-granting card like Dawns Truce makes Devastating Mastery a better play. If you combo the two together, you can protect your own permanents with it. Still only makes much sense to use it in commander, but I think it's worth mentioning.
"Bringer of the White Dawn" (looks at chapter timeline) Now it feels like you're challenging us to find the new ways you're baiting us to mention typos.
Foil is not a bad card at all it’s a good card in pauper it’s one of the best in pauper as it’s one of the only free ones it’s the only one that has no condition just a straight counter. There’s a reason it’s a 4 dollar card
1:57 Correction, you drain for 8 life. The script writer for this one seems confused to think that Consuming Greed gets a drain even with no spirits sacrificed since the same mistake was made earlier in the vid.
This is another video from this channel that seemingly ignores the context of the era some of these cards were printed in. Yeah, sure, some of them are hilariously bad by current standards, but something like Foil made sense from a design perspective in the environment it was originally printed in. For instance, Daze and Foil were "standard" legal at the same time, and what's Daze's alternative cost? Returning an Island to your hand. What does Foil want? An island in your hand. They compliment each other. Also, it's good to remember that when Force of Will was originally printed, it was terrible. The game was very different back then and card design reflects that. EDIT: Not to mention that Foil is actually still considered good in Pauper, and it's not because of a stubborn desire for a free counterspell. The format is called "Legacy-lite" for a reason.
Literally every card on this list expect the 9th one is really really strong. I usually really enjoy these videos but his context for how these are bad is AWFUL.
Bringer of the white dawn , chromatic lantern , minslaver= easy way to pay cost and says your turn is my turn over and over again. Add light house chronologist for more multiplayer shenanigans
As if Foil wasn't dumb enough as it's the only "free cast" spell that's fair if the player somehow manages to pull of casting it for free, it's a difficult card to get depending on where you like to shop. Some places, if you type in "foil" it will just give you results of literally every card in existence that got the foil treatment. Some players don't even know it exists until someone like you in this video shows the card for this reason. Devastating Mastery letting your opponent return two nonlands to hand isn't completely a bad thing. Because of the advant of counters, making your opponent return two things most times accomplishes the same effect as the destruction would. especially if tokens are involved. After all, the whole point of a board wipe is to "reset the board," they may be able to recast those two nonlands but the board was still reset. Remember we're not comparing this to Cyclonic Rift which can be cast at instant speed and Route costs that one more mana to destroy instead of bounce. i'm just now learning about "phyrexian tribute" and i need to get me this card. There are artifacts that "shut down" your ability to play the game barring artifacts like Winter Orb. You have to also remember that Unmask and Grief are the only black spells you can cast having 0 permanents and you still have to get through Force of Negation and Force of Will and they can only be cast at sorcery speed unlike the counterspells.
I wonder if Soulblast would be worth it as a boardwipe- you sacrifice all your creatures and do damage to all creatures and planeswalkers equal to their power. Even with that I think it might have to be 3RR to be on-rate
That wrath effect at #5 combos eith Hive Mind in 1v1, since their copy of it let's u return stuff n then wipes n then if they have stuff left they can return 2 things
Firecat Blitz doesn't specify untapped mountains, so couldn't you use them to cast other spells and then sac them for more cats? It's risky, but it doesn't matter if you have no lands next turn if you swing for game this turn. I won't say it's amazing, but flashback is all additional upside anyway.
For Gaea's Balance, Do Wastes not count as a Basic Land? If yes then you'd be able to get 6, not 5, though that brings up the question of why are you playing Colourless Mana cards?
Fix ruinator: exile ANY creature cards. Your opponents will run out, then you have to soak your own up if you want the benefit. Its still pretty shit for Zombies. Would be better if it were another type or demon etc
bullshit video with a clickbait title devouring in greed: not an alternate cost firecat blitz: alternate wincon in odyssey-onslaught goblin decks bringer of the white dawn: part of a game winning combo in competitive mirrodin-kamigawa format soulblast: not an alternative cost foil: used in competitive pauper devastating mastery: used in edh gaea's balance: not an alternate cost phyrexian tribute: not an alternate cost skaab ruinator: not an alternate cost
Great video but I found the title misleading. I have always felt that Alternate Costs to be distinct from additional costs. They seem to be used interchangeably in the video, just my opinion.
i agree with this
The title specifically includes both. Or did he change it later after uploading?
@@DoodleStein Taking a wild guess, they read the title in the thumbnail, which doesn't include the additional (admittedly that still leaves the possibility of the title being edited, but that's what I did, and I only noticed when you pointed it out)
@@DoodleSteinyes the title include both from the get go and that guy knew it.BUT is reads: additional/alternate cost ,as if they are the same or very similar.should have made two distinct vid about these two mechanic,as they are far from even slightly similar
@@jakemurray2693the right explaination is above
Gaea's Balance doesn't put the lands in tapped, so it's slightly mana positive if you float the mana from the fifth land you sac before casting the spell. It's still really awkward, but the mana cost is misleading.
But if it gets countered, don't you sacrifice five lands for nothing?
@Benjilabu That's part of why it's still a really awkward spell. They just didn't seem to understand how the mana for the spell plays out in the section about it.
Since Gaea’s Balance only looks for a land with a basic type, not specifically basic lands: you can put nonbasics, duals or triomes in if they have the land type. Also you can go up +1 instead of being card neutral if you have Wastes. The closest I can imagine to meaningfully going mana positive would be with Nissa WSTW or High Tide and getting a few more forests/islands in play than the card seems to at first. But really I can't think of any deck that'd want to risk the cost. Maybe some kind of lands or landfall deck would.
@@durianthesleepy You can't get a Waste with Gaea's Balance. You have to get lands with basic land types and Wastes don't have land types. That's kind of their whole thing.
I was just thinking thia, gaeas balance may have a place in 5 color decks, especially if they can fork spells. Imagine paying 6 mana and getting 10 untapped lands. Thats the ceiling, but the floor (other than not being able to cast) is simply go positive 2 mana
Fifth Dawn had so many cards that would help you generate mana of any color that it was relatively easy to generate WUBRG very early in the game. Even the set mechanic "sunburst" would benefit from paying mana costs with as many different colors as possible.
Devouring Greed was reprinted in a Masters set for a reason - it's not a bad card, it's just not part of any competitive decks. It's right on-rate for mana cost of a drain effect (2+X for X drain is the typical cost) and if you care about death triggers or have spirits with death effects, it's an enabler while also being surprisingly effective as a game closer in casual matches. It's not an awesome card, pretty average power level in casual matches, but while it's not going to win you any GPs or events like that, it's far from being one of the worst added/alternate costs ever printed.
Now, make it Devouring *RAGE* and you have a point... literally the same cost, but costs 5 to give a creature +3/+0 plus an extra +3/+0 for each spirit sacrificed. Doesn't give Trample, doesn't give anything else to help it go through, it's just all-around bad.
I used to have a mono red commander deck that would combo various rituals into twist allegiance + soulblast. I would trade someone's entire board with mine, send that board at another player, and then soulblast another player or the player I stole the creatures from, getting my entire board back in the process.
It was absolutely incredibly difficult to pull off but so so so satisfying when I did.
in the case of the Bringers, Black is the better of the bunch for its ability to vampiric tutor anything (only during your upkeep), and I do admit that, despite treasure tokens supplying the colors for example, it's still a niche application (I do run it in my Archmage Eternal commander deck, but it's still a VERY slow tutor that is killed on sight, and I'm VERY frugal, so no easy way to get solid tutors)
I used to run all 5, and black is easily the best and definitely worth it. But of course never in 60 card formats
Foil was in Standard at the same time as Daze and Thwart, so getting an island into your hand wasn't hard.
I feel like foil should be good, but then I remember during its standard, force of will was bad
All the cards considered "bad" are way too old to current standards. That's like saying "a stick pales in comparison to a gun"
They’re all still part of the same game and all exist in the same overall card pool, so everything is fair game
@@louiskemner3216 That's the problem, though. Some of the cards mentioned were essentially axes/spears when everyone else was using clubs at the time of their printing. That is to say, when they first came to exist, they were actually good. It's only when they're reviewed in a more modern "gun vs pointed stick" context do they suddenly seem bad.
Of course, Foil is still played despite this in Pauper so even the list itself has evaluation issues in that same modern context it's trying to use for comparison.
How did the likes of Wood Elemental and Barrel Down Sokenzan not make the list? You're required to mana-screw yourself to use them. And unlike Gaea's Balance, you don't get lands/mana in exchange.
I like the video but I was kind of confused about what cards are eligible for this list.
Are we rating the Worst Costs to pay to cast a spell? Or just cards that are bad that happen to have an alternate/additional cost?
Pitching a red card on your opponent’s turn isn’t a bad cost. But Force of Rage is just a bad card.
Dealing a bunch of damage to any target is good if it’s game winning. But sacrificing your entire board is a bad cost.
Foil at #6???? You're tweaking.
Foil has got a lot of competitive pedigree compared with the BS cards below it. Has seen Pauper play and a lot of play in standard back in the day (being in the same block Daze and Gush were in definitely helped make the alt cost easier tho)
Foil sees play in one of the best decks in Premodern
Fascinating how an alternate/additional cost can ruin a card entirely. And a reminder that it's okay to let loose sometimes.
Now, do cards that are seemingly overpowered but are surprisingly balanced. For example: Back to Nature. 2-mana instant wrath for enchantments. Turns out, there's rarely a time you need to destroy enchantments by the bulk. And that it's better to run multiple Natural State or Nature's Claim.
Command Deer - Gain control of target Deer
Oko be like
10. tbf Devouring Greed was a Kamigawa card, which was a spirit focused set. (especially thinking about Zuberas, who were build around seeing other Zubera spirits die (When Zubera dies, xxx for each Zubera that died this turn.) , so sacking them all together at the same time would be good).
but as most Kamigawa cards, even with its own sets spirit support, it was generally underpowered...
Worth mentioning that any indestructible-granting card like Dawns Truce makes Devastating Mastery a better play. If you combo the two together, you can protect your own permanents with it. Still only makes much sense to use it in commander, but I think it's worth mentioning.
Devouring Greed is an insanely powerful card. Like really really strong
"Bringer of the White Dawn"
(looks at chapter timeline)
Now it feels like you're challenging us to find the new ways you're baiting us to mention typos.
Foil is not a bad card at all it’s a good card in pauper it’s one of the best in pauper as it’s one of the only free ones it’s the only one that has no condition just a straight counter. There’s a reason it’s a 4 dollar card
Wasn't Foil one of the reasons why Gush finally got banned, too?
1:57 Correction, you drain for 8 life. The script writer for this one seems confused to think that Consuming Greed gets a drain even with no spirits sacrificed since the same mistake was made earlier in the vid.
Here's an idea: Top 10 Cards that are power crept yet still are good.
Phyrexian Tributes "sacrifice two creatures" clause is not an alternative or additional cost, it is part of the effect of the card.
This is another video from this channel that seemingly ignores the context of the era some of these cards were printed in. Yeah, sure, some of them are hilariously bad by current standards, but something like Foil made sense from a design perspective in the environment it was originally printed in. For instance, Daze and Foil were "standard" legal at the same time, and what's Daze's alternative cost? Returning an Island to your hand. What does Foil want? An island in your hand. They compliment each other.
Also, it's good to remember that when Force of Will was originally printed, it was terrible. The game was very different back then and card design reflects that.
EDIT: Not to mention that Foil is actually still considered good in Pauper, and it's not because of a stubborn desire for a free counterspell. The format is called "Legacy-lite" for a reason.
Gaea's Balance also removes 5 potential dead draws at once, which...iunno if it warrants mention, but it's a thing.
Literally every card on this list expect the 9th one is really really strong. I usually really enjoy these videos but his context for how these are bad is AWFUL.
Strong? No. Playable in some random commander deck? Yes
I think the zubera weren't mentioned when discussing devouring greed is a missed area of analysis
Unironically, Foil was the card that won me games in Legacy. (I didnt had FoW avaliable and we had some combo heavy meta at the time)
Bringer of the white dawn , chromatic lantern , minslaver= easy way to pay cost and says your turn is my turn over and over again. Add light house chronologist for more multiplayer shenanigans
foil is amazing in the right format, what even is this list of cards?
As if Foil wasn't dumb enough as it's the only "free cast" spell that's fair if the player somehow manages to pull of casting it for free, it's a difficult card to get depending on where you like to shop. Some places, if you type in "foil" it will just give you results of literally every card in existence that got the foil treatment. Some players don't even know it exists until someone like you in this video shows the card for this reason.
Devastating Mastery letting your opponent return two nonlands to hand isn't completely a bad thing. Because of the advant of counters, making your opponent return two things most times accomplishes the same effect as the destruction would. especially if tokens are involved. After all, the whole point of a board wipe is to "reset the board," they may be able to recast those two nonlands but the board was still reset. Remember we're not comparing this to Cyclonic Rift which can be cast at instant speed and Route costs that one more mana to destroy instead of bounce.
i'm just now learning about "phyrexian tribute" and i need to get me this card. There are artifacts that "shut down" your ability to play the game barring artifacts like Winter Orb. You have to also remember that Unmask and Grief are the only black spells you can cast having 0 permanents and you still have to get through Force of Negation and Force of Will and they can only be cast at sorcery speed unlike the counterspells.
I wonder if Soulblast would be worth it as a boardwipe- you sacrifice all your creatures and do damage to all creatures and planeswalkers equal to their power. Even with that I think it might have to be 3RR to be on-rate
Devouring Greed going into my Iname Deaths Aspect deck
Killed many an opponent with Iname, Death Aspect, mass revive and Devouring Greed in EDH.
You must be a new player the most busted cards are old cards you should look up the set urzas saga
With the bringers they are obviously only good in commander where a commander like morphon can reduce the 1 of each color casting cost to free
That wrath effect at #5 combos eith Hive Mind in 1v1, since their copy of it let's u return stuff n then wipes n then if they have stuff left they can return 2 things
bringers work well with morophon, the boundless, which you can cheat into play with cards like warren instigator or sorin imperious bloodlord
Firecat Blitz doesn't specify untapped mountains, so couldn't you use them to cast other spells and then sac them for more cats? It's risky, but it doesn't matter if you have no lands next turn if you swing for game this turn.
I won't say it's amazing, but flashback is all additional upside anyway.
Devouring Greed can be used with the zubara of the original kamigawa block
Surely the Skaab Ruinator should be put in a Soul Foundry?
For Gaea's Balance, Do Wastes not count as a Basic Land? If yes then you'd be able to get 6, not 5, though that brings up the question of why are you playing Colourless Mana cards?
It doesn't count, no. But you can use it to nab non-basics that have a basic land type.
Maybe combo devouring greed with xenograft?
Fix ruinator: exile ANY creature cards. Your opponents will run out, then you have to soak your own up if you want the benefit. Its still pretty shit for Zombies. Would be better if it were another type or demon etc
Wouldn't Gae's Balance bring out 6 lands? Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest, and Wastes
Waste isn't a land type. Wastes are basic lands, but they don't have a type attached like the original 5.
I play Pauper and I can tell you foil is a good card there
4:41 that's not what "mid" means
Foil? Pauper staple?
bullshit video with a clickbait title
devouring in greed: not an alternate cost
firecat blitz: alternate wincon in odyssey-onslaught goblin decks
bringer of the white dawn: part of a game winning combo in competitive mirrodin-kamigawa format
soulblast: not an alternative cost
foil: used in competitive pauper
devastating mastery: used in edh
gaea's balance: not an alternate cost
phyrexian tribute: not an alternate cost
skaab ruinator: not an alternate cost
Amazing!
I'm only watching the first one and you already are saying so much shit !
Good bye
A mana logs video without a blatant card mispronunciation? What universe is this? O_o
Commandeer at 8:10
@@CharlesLeeRay812 I wasn't sure if I wanted to count that one lmao. It did sound a bit like "command deer"... alright fine I'll give it to you :P
Just play mask wood nexus
o the black enchantment that changes the creature type permanently
"Conspiration", I guess
Foil is a very playable card in pauper??? Wtf is this video
Devouring Greed seems like, why is this not played? Every heard of Lingering Souls?
Good clickbait video!
3 views 1 minute? Bro fell off
This is why your parents don’t love you
Correct video: my super hot takes because I’m bad at mtg.