Guy standing next to me in Tower Records all bundled up with a hat pulled down low one winter years ago. I'm flipping thru Bill Evans LPs and he offers: "Yeah, I played with him." I said, "What's your name?" He said: "I'm Mel Lewis." Totally unassuming, nice guy. Told him all the times I heard him at the Vanguard with Thad Jones.
Mel is the best. I was fortunate enough to study with him for a week at a jazz camp in the Pacific Northwest. He and Jeff Hamilton were amazing teachers and mentors passing on the tradition. ❤️
Mel had opinions that he was passionate about, consistent with, and committed to. Just like his beat! Passionate, consistent, and committed. You take the good with the bad. Long live Mel.
Could listen to Mel play time all night. He is so loose and relaxed. One of the truly great drummers who perhaps deserved more credit than he received during his lifetime. This informal clinic is priceless, Mel openly sharing his valuable lifetime experience as a musician.
Fantastic. I highly recommend Chris Smith's book "View From The Back of The Band, Life of Mel Lewis." It's incredibly thorough to the point of wonderful notation showing what he played in sections, and what the horns were playing, so you can see WHY he played what he did. Learned so much from it. Love playing Thad Jones/Mel Lewis charts with big bands - makes one realize what an incredible musician Mel was.
Mel's a bit dark but a lot of what he says is dead on. Play the bass drum! I was an an Ed Thigpen clinic where Tony Williams was in the audience. Thigpen was talking about the importance of feathering and he asked Tony, "Do you feather the bass drum?" and Tony said, "always". I used to sit at the side table at the Village Vanguard when Tony or Elvin would play - to the left of the drums and almost behind them. They played the bass drum, even if it was barely striking the drum.
Buddy & Louie did the same thing. Can u imagine the foot control they must've had to "feather" a 24-inch bass drum? And Buddy used a 26 toward the end & wanted to go to a 28 but he died B4 it happened.
This workshop is a gift! I learned a ton in the first 10 minutes that I have never thought about. The idea of not having hi-hats and rides at the beginning and the snare filling all those roles is eye-opening. And using the kick as the principle time keeper. I have been playing wide open for a long time, though. I always want my drum heads to ring and sing. Mel Lewis was completely unknown to me until the algorithm shared 1989's The History of Jazz Drumming with Mel as the guide.
I knew Mel for many years and have played with him a lot. Had many discussions about music and different musicians. You could always count on Mel telling you how he truly felt at any given moment. He could talk on the phone for hours and it would be always interesting. We miss Uncle Mel!!!
You gotta love Mel Lewis. He really gives us his wisdom from an era gone by. I must say his Steve Gadd comments are classic Mel! But eventually Mel admits that getting your sound might mean you don’t work? Unless you are Mel! One thing to keep in mind is Steve Gadd created his own sound! Great interview thanks!
Bruce Thomson ... Mel is so old school, just like Buddy Rich. They lived in a time where young guns like Steve Gadd were taking the studio work from guys like Mel. Mel was a studio guy in the 60s, he worked a lot in NYC studios, but he never wanted to play rock music. He has a lot of opinions on what is correct, but not an open mind. Don’t let Mel’s over confident old jazz drummer opinions turn you off to listening. Give him a listen and you can get some real wisdom from Mel about playing jazz. His stories are classic and his drum lesson is really giving us a look at why old school jazz sounded the way it does. Plus, I love his cymbals!
My former drum pupil just sent me this video.I would be pleased just to hear him talk,let alone talk and play.I saw him once with the ML/Thad Jones big band in Birmingham England UK early 70s in the second Ronnie Scotts club.A great night and managed to chat with him during the break(not his drum break)very welcoming.
I kind of grasp that Gadd thing from a whole different angle. As far as i understood, he was mocking his (Gadd's) Studioguy attitude, subordinating himself and HIS instrument to a stranger. For Mel, this instrument is your voice. Your personality. And you are in control. Different times, different adjustments. Gadd's unique sound came thru being a studio guy and let the producers take the batton. Of course, it's still a great sound, but less connected to Gadd and more connected to his next job. Was his decision, so it's still his thing. Mels sound came from a total different time, style and attitude. More of a fight and flight situation with a lot more temperament and expression. While Gadd would play the same thing a 100 times for a producer, Mel wouldn't give the producer another chance 😂 like a jazz drummer, they never play the same thing even once 😂 Much luv ✌️ thnx for the great video 🥁❤️
Mel - I miss you, man. You were my musical father. "MIssion to Moscow" is still my top big band album. The clinic we did in Boulder 1977 is still the best clinic ever presented for FHS/BHS jazz ensembles.
do we really have to agree with Everything someone says?! can we not just dig on a human for what they are? Mel is a charismatic and dynamic human who knows what he wants. i can dig it..
Totally agree with you, being honest, humble, simple, not pleasing other, not laughing for nothing not talking for nothing are great and super rare qualities these days ...
Always liked his playing with the Thad Jones B.B. and in small groups. HOWEVER; when he told this group of drummers they were "all wrong" for not keeping time on the bass drum he was being arrogant and unenlightened. He knew full well that one of the distinctive features of be bop music was the drummer laying off the bass as a time keeper and using it for accented notes as another voice on the set of traps. Nothing "wrong" with that musical approach at all and it's become the basis of much modern jazz. His history lesson should have told him that music moves on layer upon layer. You can swing without the bass played on every note. Swing can be implied rather than directly stated, especially in smaller groups. I do agree with his comments if applied to driving a big band. Then he calls Gadd stupid! One of the most influential and innovative pocket players of all time, even by 1985! Sometimes these old time jazz guys got full of themselves during these clinics. Even so, Mel was a solid player worth listening to and his ride cymbal always fit into the music nicely without being too bright or dark. I can appreciate that as a primarily jazz player myself in the Buddy Rich tradition.
That got to be a Squeak King uh I mean Speed King bass pedal! 😂 But what a great video! Wish I had seen this 35 years ago! What a great drummer and educator! We're blessed to have had him and his talent in our ranks!
Thank you so much for posting this vid on Mr.Lewis I learned some good things. Also ... Lucas I love your playing ... I've been listening to you since the Nueva Manteca days :) Cheers!
Dizzy Gillespie was also meant to have said something along these lines. That's really interesting that Basie said the same thing- that he had that same feeling and awareness of the bass drum.
I know a lot of guys have been upset about comments about Gadd (of whom I'm a fan) but of late I've seen quite a few interviews with great drummers such as Jeff Porcaro , Simon Philips and people of that kind of ilk all really echoing what Mel is saying here about not dampening the drums …… I can understand there being defensiveness about a drum god being criticised but at the same time you have to think to yourself if this guy is the guy someone like Gadd has enough respect for to go to for advice then he's worth listening to and be open to what he has to say.....and that's the beauty of a lot of great drummers like Gadd , he always comes across as humble and open …… and he must have listened somewhere along the line because there was definitely a shift towards the darker K sound for Steve so again even if it wasn't directly from Mel then some other great drummer whoever it was introduced Steve to the K was also agreeing with Mel's advice ( advice that Steve obviously must have thought about and respected the opinion enough to actually take )
Pretty funny too that Gadd and Lewis grew up about an hour away from each other in Western NY. Has Gadd ever gone on record in reply to Lewis' critiques? To me personally, Mel is a purest and obviously playing by a different set of rules for a different style of music.
Thanks for the posting. Do you know the name of the album Mel played at the end of the clinic and the name of the songs he played from the album? I loved the story about Elvin's wife turning his drums. You can't make it up!
Finally, I hear someone say that it is ok to have ring in your kit when you are playing rock. The loud volume kills the ring anyway, but putting tape on your drums during a live rock gig kills the sound and defeats its purpose.
I had a great lesson many years ago where the teacher asked me to damp my drums until they sounded good to me whilst he played them. I added damping ring and a bit of moon gel, plus a bit of blanket in the bass drum - just to kill the ring. Then he sent me to the end of the hall we were in. Then he pulled off the rings and gell and pulled out the blanket. I was convinced. Moral is, never tune the drums to sound good to your own ears on the stage :-o
Mr Lewis is correct,we don't close Mic the drums ,we use over heads, bass drum Mic, on the out side, no moon gel, just opened, and we do rock and roll,learn to use dynamics on the whole drum kit it's acoustic
True, and I don't even use feathering that much in jazz and I don't really know who does. This is post-bop too so I don't know why he says "you're all wrong" when he asks the rhetorical question about if everyone feathers 4 on the floor or not. I played in a dance band on cruise ships for about 3 years and would feather on some songs but would also just deliberately play more modern grooves on most of them. Hoping he'll get into some good stuff, im 20 mins in and realizing how linear we think in 2019.
Well, I certainly do always feather, as all Jazz drummers mention this, and i also got the difference demonstrated in a clinic , so who am I to argue with this. My only point is that this could have been demonstrated in 5 minutes. Likewise for the overly long Zildjian cymbal rant
You try to improvise a 2.5 hour clinic without rambling on about things you find important. Mel noticed a lack of feathering with young swingers- which contributed to mediocre feel. 30 mins is a bit much but if it bothers you enough to comment, go watch a Steve Gadd video where he’ll spend 0 mins talking about feathering.
I agree with Mel on cymbals. Rock guys are playing way too fricking hard and it's a laugh when they say, "Oh, I love the K's. Nice and dark" . Half these guys may as well play Pearl cymbals because their is zero character in their sound. Also A. Zildjian has taken 35 years to get the old K. Mojo going. Paiste beat them to it with their Trad. Series when they came out in 97. I was first in line to get a 22" Paiste because no American cymbal came close, though they tried to copy Elvins old Ks. They never got it right until the K. Constantinople and the Kerope lines. I met Mel at this time in 85. I have a story, but no one would believe it, so I may as well keep quiet. Had to do with being his understudy for the Vanguard and touring. Oops, I started talking.
The right tools for the job. I play in a lot of different situations so I have a couple sets of cymbals as I do drum kits. I have 2 jazz kits with smaller drums (18" bass drums) and two larger kits for rock/blues/country. I have a gorgeous set of K Constantinoples that are my go to jazz set and a set of regular K and K Customs that include the newer K Sweet Crash (17") and K Cluster Crash (18"). These were designed to be very versatile and fit all kinds of styles. In fact, they were perfect for some big band gigs I did right alongside my Constantinople Bounce Ride. But they are just as at home in a high volume situation with a 70s classic rock band I play with. I can hit pretty hard in that context but here's the deal; I've developed a technique utilizing Moeller and Gladstone that allows me to play "balls to the walls" without jeopardizing the health of my bronze. That same technique allows me to play at a whisper with the jazz group I play with regularly. I'm able to draw the character of those K Cons and the drums without the tone being thin. It's all about control at the extremes of the dynamic range. I stopped dissing players of other genres years ago when I stopped being a Jazz-Hole and learned to be a damned drummer and musician first. I enjoy playing with a quiet trio one night, a grooving rhythm and blues band another, playing authentic classic and modern country, "driving the bus" with a big band or "righteously rendering" with a loud guitar band. It's all an absolute blast!
First this is gold. Second, I'm not with Mel on 20:40 about Steve Gadd. Gadd always sounded like himself and always had his own sound. Maybe a sound Mel didn't liked it but hey, you just can't go in life telling how a drum should sound, right? In fact, there is an ego factor in saying you have "your" sound and the rest of the world would have to deal with it, like or or not. Steve Gadd and session drummers carrers were built against this. You are not important. MUSIC is. That's why Steve Gadd is one of the most recorded drummers in ALL genres and not just in jazz. Imao
pacman lp I bet GADD would get a kick out of Mel's comment. GADD is open and was probably influenced by Mel. Gadd's sound was open early on, but later found he had to adapt to the times to work.
Mel's right. Old K's are the best and Istambul makes beautiful cymbals that Zildjian took years to match (K Dark,, Kcon). I have a 60's A from before Rock became mainstream and it is certainly way better than anything Zildjian made after it.
The main thing I took from this is Mel thought his way was the only way to play jazz. It was a great way of doing things, but it's not going to work for everybody. Different people want to hear different things in jazz.
It's not really Mel's way, it's just how jazz drums are supposed to be. Listen to most jazz drummers from his age, and they all used the same principles. Same type of cymbals, same tuning on their drums mostly, and they all played the bass drum like Mel said to. Jazz is very distinctive from a drum perspective, and many drummers get it wrong all the time. It's why Art Blakey, Papa Joe Jones, Mel, Buddy Rich, Roach, and everyone else sounded so good. They all used the same principles, but inflected their own personality on top of those principles.
Mel Lewis was a great drummer but I dont agree with a lot of what he says. Sometimes you just dont want that wide open sound on drums depending on the size of the place you are playing in and the style of music you play. Also everyone has their own way of doing things and that's the beauty of music,.There is no right and wrong way, stupid or smart way of doing things.
Well are you playing in a swing band? That was Mel’s specialty and the focus of the clinic. The clinic wasn’t about playing commercial music or fusion, then perhaps they would’ve hired another drummer who muffles the drums to give insight into that world. Everybody’s getting triggered with the Gadd comments but he was mainly calling him stupid for destroying old K’s by playing too heavy.
Elvin is probably my favourite jazz drummer and his wife was supposed to have,for a while I suppose, tuned his drums so high that he had to play everything almost in reverse! haha!
Why? Is it important that everyone agrees with your opinion? Mel voices some strong opinions that other people don't agree with. That isn't unusual for people who are very good at what they do. They have strong opinions and little interest in how they come across to others, fitting in with popular consensus or being politically correct. Very many great musicians are like this. This attitude and their achievement may not be totally unrelated.
Stephen Pitchford : I thought it was different. Steve’s resume certainly speaks for itself. Had Mel come up when Steve did, he may have made similar choices - and vice versa.
Mel at 20:40. Steve Gadd is "stupid"? Okay, sure. Ask Chick and everyone else who's hired him how stupid Steve is. What a horrendous sound: th-cam.com/video/n8A-gAwVnfM/w-d-xo.html The brushwork alone is astounding. They DID get his sound, because he changed the drum "sound" world. Wish I'd been at the workshop for that one. Regardless, RIP, Mel.
A cautionary take of how a prodigious player can still find themselves completely out of touch when they become so dogmatic. It's a terrible place for such a great player to end up. We all know players like this, and life really looks like shit through those lenses. Work hard, be true to yourself, think of the long game, but DON'T be like Mel, kids...
Riccardo Pearlman you might want to check your definition of dogmatic. Lewis never aspired to be an every drummer for every need kind of guy. Jeff Hamilton told me by contrast Shelly Manne would take heads off drums etc to satisfy the recording session. Lewis was an enigmatic drummer. It looks easy , it sounds easy, it’s not easy. Really no one played like Lewis. That’s what you should take away from this.
@@drewconlin9452 Not really my point. And the definition is fine. I agree Mel is a fantastic player- but I suggest people divorce his dogmatic thinking from the content of his playing. You can learn a lot by listening to his playing. His philosophy was, by comparison, toxic and shitty. Lewis was clearly both unwilling and unable to cope with what followed the peak of his generation. He clearly preferred thinking the music died after his heyday rather than to try and unpack what was happening around him. Buddy Rich was the same story. Angry. Toxic. Asshole. Not only is it sad to see how miserable these prodigies became, but it's sadder still to see how modern jazz of the past 20 years has really become a progressive art form again and might be something Lewis might have been able to embrace. Given what he had to say about someone like Gadd, I am willing to bet Mel Lewis would have some unbelievably shitty things to say about the likes of Tony Williams, Jack Dejohnette, and even someone like Bob Moses. No reasonable listener, or student of Jazz needs to hear that shit. Better to just listen to his drumming and learn what he brought to the game.
@@Riddim4 If only beginners would understand Jazz, pulse, swing and feel the way Mel Lewis is showing in this video, it would be great. I know some "supposed" good drummers who can't even feather the bass drum with the HH on 2 and 4 at 70 on a metronome. Some others who can't hold steady time on the slow blues version on Peter Erskine Jazz Essentials app (great one, by the way)... He doesn't "hit" the drums, just plays them beautifully... So if ever a beginner begins with these concepts, he will be good forever.... Thanks for posting !!!!
BATTEUR MAGAZINE : feathering is generally not very audible and thus often missed. Those who are serious about the instrument and the music will seek out the nuances. It’s easier now to seek out info than it’s ever been. Then we have use it, musically.
Sure that is what he said? I can't find the segment where he said this, now, the video is too long... but didn't he say it was stupid to play rock on K Zildjians and break them? He said Gadd was a good drummer but not a great drummer because he allowed the drum sound being controlled by the engineer... that is how it came across to me.
you see how misleading jazz can be? if you can learn jazz you can do any style. that's true. but would you? after knowing really whats jazz about? you wouldn't-exactly like him. you would turn out to be that extremist musician who only plays that elite stuff. and that's a shame. nothing wrong with knopfler. or the smiths. or radiohead. or talking heads. yeah ac dc is "stupid rock" but it is fun to play. its just fun. jazz can be so misleading.
Absolutely. Ironic considering how it was working class music in the beginning. That’s why younger musicians in the 50s/60s like ornette or albert tried to bring back that old, open attitude
@@thetopface "working class music" ???? - it was black music - it was dance music - it was urban music - it was american music but hardly "working class music" - if you think in that terms you might call blues from the 1920s to 1940s "working class music" for american blacks and country music from the same period "working class music" for american whites. And jazz musicians usually looked down on both styles (even the R&B of the 1940s and 1950s)
2009framat what are you talking about? Jazz 100% arose from a black working class background. What university taught jazz before the 30s? It became a complex, idiomatic music before it was even accepted by the black middle class. And yes I would also say blues and country are working class. Jazz has always been HEAVILY influenced by the blues, and there are many different cultures that belong to the working class.
Usually blues and country musicians were seldom professional musicians (maybe sometimes semi-professionals) and US-polish, -german, -italian, -irish etc. "working class" audiences did not care for jazz - so it was mainly not "working class" music but music (mainly) for afro-americans from (mainly) afro-americans and not "working class" music from working class people for working class audiences. That is what I am talking about.
Out of touch with what issues? Because he doesn’t want Gadd’s balls in his mouth like 90% of half-assed drummers? Mel swung hard as fuck and supported the band MUSICALLY, a concept that many fusion/pop drummers are oblivious to.
Boy, he sure thinks highly of himself. Great drummer, legendary musician, for sure, but calling Steve Gadd stupid is a bit much. He likes to propagate his own prejudice for rock music and engineers and doesn’t understand the validity of other approaches to music. He says he has his integrity, and maybe he does, but his emphasis on being in control seems a bit weak of character. Clearly he’s a textbook model of a Jazz Snob. It’s unfortunate, he’s such a master technician on the drums. I suppose everyone has their shortcomings.
Great player, but really not a good teacher. Not good to spend 11 minutes saying the same thing over and over. Yes, we get it, use and develop the bass drum! But amazing player for sure.
This is gold, thank you!
This man is a genius thanks for the upload.
Guy standing next to me in Tower Records all bundled up with a hat pulled down low one winter years ago. I'm flipping thru Bill Evans LPs and he offers: "Yeah, I played with him." I said, "What's your name?" He said: "I'm Mel Lewis." Totally unassuming, nice guy. Told him all the times I heard him at the Vanguard with Thad Jones.
Mel is the best. I was fortunate enough to study with him for a week at a jazz camp in the Pacific Northwest. He and Jeff Hamilton were amazing teachers and mentors passing on the tradition. ❤️
Centrum.
I could listen to Mel talk all day long- so many nuances, tips, practicalities from a Master
I agree totally ❤
Mel had opinions that he was passionate about, consistent with, and committed to. Just like his beat! Passionate, consistent, and committed. You take the good with the bad. Long live Mel.
I totally agree
Could listen to Mel play time all night. He is so loose and relaxed. One of the truly great drummers who perhaps deserved more credit than he received during his lifetime. This informal clinic is priceless, Mel openly sharing his valuable lifetime experience as a musician.
Fantastic. I highly recommend Chris Smith's book "View From The Back of The Band, Life of Mel Lewis." It's incredibly thorough to the point of wonderful notation showing what he played in sections, and what the horns were playing, so you can see WHY he played what he did. Learned so much from it. Love playing Thad Jones/Mel Lewis charts with big bands - makes one realize what an incredible musician Mel was.
Yeah it’s a good one!
His book is a treasure!
Mel's a bit dark but a lot of what he says is dead on. Play the bass drum! I was an an Ed Thigpen clinic where Tony Williams was in the audience. Thigpen was talking about the importance of feathering and he asked Tony, "Do you feather the bass drum?" and Tony said, "always". I used to sit at the side table at the Village Vanguard when Tony or Elvin would play - to the left of the drums and almost behind them. They played the bass drum, even if it was barely striking the drum.
Williams feathered with a concrete feather.
Thanks for mentioning that Sir!!
I went up to Mel once in abar to tell him how much he influenced me and he told me to " beat it asshole" ! Oh well. Still a great big band player.
Did they dig into the head when they feathered like Mel said to do?
Buddy & Louie did the same thing. Can u imagine the foot control they must've had to "feather" a 24-inch bass drum? And Buddy used a 26 toward the end & wanted to go to a 28 but he died B4 it happened.
This workshop is a gift! I learned a ton in the first 10 minutes that I have never thought about. The idea of not having hi-hats and rides at the beginning and the snare filling all those roles is eye-opening. And using the kick as the principle time keeper. I have been playing wide open for a long time, though. I always want my drum heads to ring and sing. Mel Lewis was completely unknown to me until the algorithm shared 1989's The History of Jazz Drumming with Mel as the guide.
This is GOLD.. Thank you Lucas !
love it--i was there for Mels last clinic in New Orleans at the JEA convention---god bless a true original
I can't begin to thank you enough for posting this. Mel is the greatest!!!
Thanks a lot to whoever filmed this!
Excellent clinic, I think. Mel is so knowledgable & articulate here.
I knew Mel for many years and have played with him a lot. Had many discussions about music and different musicians. You could always count on Mel telling you how he truly felt at any given moment.
He could talk on the phone for hours and it would be always interesting. We miss Uncle Mel!!!
I agree. He was a hustler to the core!
Thanks for this comment! 😄
You gotta love Mel Lewis. He really gives us his wisdom from an era gone by. I must say his Steve Gadd comments are classic Mel! But eventually Mel admits that getting your sound might mean you don’t work? Unless you are Mel! One thing to keep in mind is Steve Gadd created his own sound! Great interview thanks!
Bruce Thomson ... Mel is so old school, just like Buddy Rich. They lived in a time where young guns like Steve Gadd were taking the studio work from guys like Mel. Mel was a studio guy in the 60s, he worked a lot in NYC studios, but he never wanted to play rock music. He has a lot of opinions on what is correct, but not an open mind. Don’t let Mel’s over confident old jazz drummer opinions turn you off to listening. Give him a listen and you can get some real wisdom from Mel about playing jazz. His stories are classic and his drum lesson is really giving us a look at why old school jazz sounded the way it does. Plus, I love his cymbals!
That was one of the better workshops I’ve watched. Thanks for posting it.
My former drum pupil just sent me this video.I would be pleased just to hear him talk,let alone talk and play.I saw him once with the ML/Thad Jones big band in Birmingham England UK early 70s in the second Ronnie Scotts club.A great night and managed to chat with him during the break(not his drum break)very welcoming.
I kind of grasp that Gadd thing from a whole different angle. As far as i understood, he was mocking his (Gadd's) Studioguy attitude, subordinating himself and HIS instrument to a stranger.
For Mel, this instrument is your voice. Your personality. And you are in control.
Different times, different adjustments.
Gadd's unique sound came thru being a studio guy and let the producers take the batton. Of course, it's still a great sound, but less connected to Gadd and more connected to his next job. Was his decision, so it's still his thing.
Mels sound came from a total different time, style and attitude. More of a fight and flight situation with a lot more temperament and expression.
While Gadd would play the same thing a 100 times for a producer, Mel wouldn't give the producer another chance 😂 like a jazz drummer, they never play the same thing even once 😂
Much luv ✌️ thnx for the great video 🥁❤️
Mel - I miss you, man. You were my musical father. "MIssion to Moscow" is still my top big band album. The clinic we did in Boulder 1977 is still the best clinic ever presented for FHS/BHS jazz ensembles.
I never knew he gave such great clinics. I live in LA, he was in NY, so he probably gave most of them back there, or in Europe, as he is here.
do we really have to agree with Everything someone says?! can we not just dig on a human for what they are?
Mel is a charismatic and dynamic human who knows what he wants. i can dig it..
Totally agree with you, being honest, humble, simple, not pleasing other, not laughing for nothing not talking for nothing are great and super rare qualities these days ...
Always liked his playing with the Thad Jones B.B. and in small groups. HOWEVER; when he told this group of drummers they were "all wrong" for not keeping time on the bass drum he was being arrogant and unenlightened. He knew full well that one of the distinctive features of be bop music was the drummer laying off the bass as a time keeper and using it for accented notes as another voice on the set of traps. Nothing "wrong" with that musical approach at all and it's become the basis of much modern jazz. His history lesson should have told him that music moves on layer upon layer. You can swing without the bass played on every note. Swing can be implied rather than directly stated, especially in smaller groups. I do agree with his comments if applied to driving a big band. Then he calls Gadd stupid! One of the most influential and innovative pocket players of all time, even by 1985! Sometimes these old time jazz guys got full of themselves during these clinics. Even so, Mel was a solid player worth listening to and his ride cymbal always fit into the music nicely without being too bright or dark. I can appreciate that as a primarily jazz player myself in the Buddy Rich tradition.
American One Productions Rehearsal & Drum Studios in NJ loves this video! Two huge thumbs up 👍🏻👍🏻🥁
That was deep,thank you, it was great.
Where did THIS come from??? Thank GOD!! Thank you!!!!!
Hey Lucas, how are you? This is a wonderful video. Just look at how beautiful his ride cymbal motion is. Thanks for posting. MK
Hey Mark, great to hear from you. Will you be in Adam any time soon? Regards to all there. Hug L
That got to be a Squeak King uh I mean Speed King bass pedal! 😂
But what a great video! Wish I had seen this 35 years ago! What a great drummer and educator! We're blessed to have had him and his talent in our ranks!
I use a 1960s Speed King took it apart and greased it recently first time in decades works better.....
Thank you so much for posting this vid on Mr.Lewis I learned some good things. Also ... Lucas I love your playing ... I've been listening to you since the Nueva Manteca days :) Cheers!
No way.... Thanks a lot for uploading this video man.
no BS with Mel ,what a great guy
Lov ya Mel !!!! this was gold!thank you.
Basie said, "drummers should learn to play the bass drum for a year first" applies here.
Dizzy Gillespie was also meant to have said something along these lines. That's really interesting that Basie said the same thing- that he had that same feeling and awareness of the bass drum.
No bullshit here! This is gold.
Wow he has such a beautiful swing feel. Listen up!
Great video, thanks for uploading!
This man knows his brass
Thanks for uploading! Supercool!
“If you have to play hard, buy the cheapest cymbals you can buy!” Reminds me of Damon Che from Don Caballero using all Sabian B8 Pro Rides!
Famous story about his distinctive cymbals being stolen at a NY restaurant. I don't believe he ever got them back.
sometimes ya do something ya cant believe ya actually did,then ya try and do it again but ya cant coz ya cant remember what it was ya did.
I know a lot of guys have been upset about comments about Gadd (of whom I'm a fan) but of late I've seen quite a few interviews with great drummers such as Jeff Porcaro , Simon Philips and people of that kind of ilk all really echoing what Mel is saying here about not dampening the drums …… I can understand there being defensiveness about a drum god being criticised but at the same time you have to think to yourself if this guy is the guy someone like Gadd has enough respect for to go to for advice then he's worth listening to and be open to what he has to say.....and that's the beauty of a lot of great drummers like Gadd , he always comes across as humble and open …… and he must have listened somewhere along the line because there was definitely a shift towards the darker K sound for Steve so again even if it wasn't directly from Mel then some other great drummer whoever it was introduced Steve to the K was also agreeing with Mel's advice ( advice that Steve obviously must have thought about and respected the opinion enough to actually take )
Pretty funny too that Gadd and Lewis grew up about an hour away from each other in Western NY. Has Gadd ever gone on record in reply to Lewis' critiques? To me personally, Mel is a purest and obviously playing by a different set of rules for a different style of music.
Wow! Thank you for uploaded incredible video!
Great Lucas! Thx!
Wow thanks Lucas! Groetjes, Kevin
Thanks for the posting. Do you know the name of the album Mel played at the end of the clinic and the name of the songs he played from the album? I loved the story about Elvin's wife turning his drums. You can't make it up!
I believe it was from "20 Years at the Village Vanguard"
53:04 look how his right hand moves
2nd track he played on the 'boom box' sounds like it could be a Drum Corps tune 2:10:03
thank you mel lewis great words!!
What a legend :)
This video is about the same as my age. I want to learn the basics of Jazz drumming 🥁 🎉
He ominously mentioned having cancer on his arm-the same cancer that would return and take his life. Only 60...gone too soon.
It's always the Drummers fault....... same stuff, different days now! Thanks and Blessings!!!
He is entertaining to listen to. His talking sounds like Bun E Carlos
Mel Lewis says Istanbul cymbals are the old k cymbals. Does anyone know the time stamp?
Thank you
20:37 on Steve Gadd XD lol
Wow Lucas te gek! Een gem! 🙏🏻
Finally, I hear someone say that it is ok to have ring in your kit when you are playing rock. The loud volume kills the ring anyway, but putting tape on your drums during a live rock gig kills the sound and defeats its purpose.
I had a great lesson many years ago where the teacher asked me to damp my drums until they sounded good to me whilst he played them. I added damping ring and a bit of moon gel, plus a bit of blanket in the bass drum - just to kill the ring. Then he sent me to the end of the hall we were in. Then he pulled off the rings and gell and pulled out the blanket. I was convinced. Moral is, never tune the drums to sound good to your own ears on the stage :-o
Mr Lewis is correct,we don't close Mic the drums ,we use over heads, bass drum Mic, on the out side, no moon gel, just opened, and we do rock and roll,learn to use dynamics on the whole drum kit it's acoustic
02:04:40 RE Tape played; What is the name of the released album? Thanks.
Worth $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
You play the bass drum for the band !! The listener hears it when the drummer accents.
Very true. Great comment.
fantastik
1:13:56 MEL'S PERSPECTIVE ON ZILDJIAN HISTORY.
1:19:05 ISTANBUL (PRESPLIT) IN K.ZILDJIAN TIMELINE
DAMN👍
Not many drummers would have the guts to call Steve Gadd stupid! LOL
Tx Lucas for posting this, but man, a lot of old man ranting! 30 mins spent on feathering the bassdrum only...
True, and I don't even use feathering that much in jazz and I don't really know who does. This is post-bop too so I don't know why he says "you're all wrong" when he asks the rhetorical question about if everyone feathers 4 on the floor or not.
I played in a dance band on cruise ships for about 3 years and would feather on some songs but would also just deliberately play more modern grooves on most of them.
Hoping he'll get into some good stuff, im 20 mins in and realizing how linear we think in 2019.
@@DrummerJacob you talk BS
Well, I certainly do always feather, as all Jazz drummers mention this, and i also got the difference demonstrated in a clinic , so who am I to argue with this. My only point is that this could have been demonstrated in 5 minutes. Likewise for the overly long Zildjian cymbal rant
You try to improvise a 2.5 hour clinic without rambling on about things you find important. Mel noticed a lack of feathering with young swingers- which contributed to mediocre feel. 30 mins is a bit much but if it bothers you enough to comment, go watch a Steve Gadd video where he’ll spend 0 mins talking about feathering.
Shelly asks the question "Is there a hole on this bass drum?"
Audience replying.."no"
Shelly..."I could tell"
😁
Shelly??
I think you meant Mel
WTF
Different times indeed. People in the audience hanging , smoking cigarettes and not getting triggered by a man telling the truth.
when liberals were STILL acting like normal people and political correctness was an unknown concept. I am glad I lived those years in my youth !
@John Strozzi Life was definitely not boring then. Today is just more hyper and basically annoying.
I agree with Mel on cymbals. Rock guys are playing way too fricking hard and it's a laugh when they say, "Oh, I love the K's. Nice and dark" . Half these guys may as well play Pearl cymbals because their is zero character in their sound. Also A. Zildjian has taken 35 years to get the old K. Mojo going. Paiste beat them to it with their Trad. Series when they came out in 97. I was first in line to get a 22" Paiste because no American cymbal came close, though they tried to copy Elvins old Ks. They never got it right until the K. Constantinople and the Kerope lines. I met Mel at this time in 85. I have a story, but no one would believe it, so I may as well keep quiet. Had to do with being his understudy for the Vanguard and touring. Oops, I started talking.
The right tools for the job. I play in a lot of different situations so I have a couple sets of cymbals as I do drum kits. I have 2 jazz kits with smaller drums (18" bass drums) and two larger kits for rock/blues/country. I have a gorgeous set of K Constantinoples that are my go to jazz set and a set of regular K and K Customs that include the newer K Sweet Crash (17") and K Cluster Crash (18"). These were designed to be very versatile and fit all kinds of styles. In fact, they were perfect for some big band gigs I did right alongside my Constantinople Bounce Ride. But they are just as at home in a high volume situation with a 70s classic rock band I play with. I can hit pretty hard in that context but here's the deal; I've developed a technique utilizing Moeller and Gladstone that allows me to play "balls to the walls" without jeopardizing the health of my bronze. That same technique allows me to play at a whisper with the jazz group I play with regularly. I'm able to draw the character of those K Cons and the drums without the tone being thin. It's all about control at the extremes of the dynamic range. I stopped dissing players of other genres years ago when I stopped being a Jazz-Hole and learned to be a damned drummer and musician first. I enjoy playing with a quiet trio one night, a grooving rhythm and blues band another, playing authentic classic and modern country, "driving the bus" with a big band or "righteously rendering" with a loud guitar band. It's all an absolute blast!
Cmon now you have to share that story!
Tegek Lucas!
Lot of memories, thx Lucas & Cees. Marco you where there?
@@joostniezing2873 Yes
who is the pianist? Hoe heet de pianist? cool
First this is gold. Second, I'm not with Mel on 20:40 about Steve Gadd. Gadd always sounded like himself and always had his own sound. Maybe a sound Mel didn't liked it but hey, you just can't go in life telling how a drum should sound, right? In fact, there is an ego factor in saying you have "your" sound and the rest of the world would have to deal with it, like or or not. Steve Gadd and session drummers carrers were built against this. You are not important. MUSIC is. That's why Steve Gadd is one of the most recorded drummers in ALL genres and not just in jazz. Imao
pacman lp I bet GADD would get a kick out of Mel's comment. GADD is open and was probably influenced by Mel. Gadd's sound was open early on, but later found he had to adapt to the times to work.
Mel's right. Old K's are the best and Istambul makes beautiful cymbals that Zildjian took years to match (K Dark,, Kcon). I have a 60's A from before Rock became mainstream and it is certainly way better than anything Zildjian made after it.
That's all subjective, many people like what best fits their style. I think many modern cymbals sound amazing
@@ethancundiff6422 Agree with you. Today there are so many choices there is something for everyone. It's mind boggling!
wow.i never knew Michael Caine was such a good drummer
A super cynical Michael Caine
The main thing I took from this is Mel thought his way was the only way to play jazz. It was a great way of doing things, but it's not going to work for everybody. Different people want to hear different things in jazz.
It's not really Mel's way, it's just how jazz drums are supposed to be. Listen to most jazz drummers from his age, and they all used the same principles. Same type of cymbals, same tuning on their drums mostly, and they all played the bass drum like Mel said to. Jazz is very distinctive from a drum perspective, and many drummers get it wrong all the time. It's why Art Blakey, Papa Joe Jones, Mel, Buddy Rich, Roach, and everyone else sounded so good. They all used the same principles, but inflected their own personality on top of those principles.
I'm a bitch and I don't have a ride cymbal named after me! Haha
1;36.30 goes fast groove...cool!
Mel Lewis was a great drummer but I dont agree with a lot of what he says. Sometimes you just dont want that wide open sound on drums depending on the size of the place you are playing in and the style of music you play. Also everyone has their own way of doing things and that's the beauty of music,.There is no right and wrong way, stupid or smart way of doing things.
schramschram: perhaps, but anatomy and physics may suggest otherwise at times.
Well are you playing in a swing band? That was Mel’s specialty and the focus of the clinic. The clinic wasn’t about playing commercial music or fusion, then perhaps they would’ve hired another drummer who muffles the drums to give insight into that world. Everybody’s getting triggered with the Gadd comments but he was mainly calling him stupid for destroying old K’s by playing too heavy.
shit! elvins drums always sound incredible! i love mel but wtf is he talking about concerning elvins sound? lol
Elvin is probably my favourite jazz drummer and his wife was supposed to have,for a while I suppose, tuned his drums so high that he had to play everything almost in reverse! haha!
Somebody behind is not paying attention... (must be a hip hop drummer, ha ha)
His Steve gadd comment really upset me
"really upset me"? How good are you?
Why? Is it important that everyone agrees with your opinion? Mel voices some strong opinions that other people don't agree with. That isn't unusual for people who are very good at what they do. They have strong opinions and little interest in how they come across to others, fitting in with popular consensus or being politically correct. Very many great musicians are like this. This attitude and their achievement may not be totally unrelated.
Stephen Pitchford : I thought it was different. Steve’s resume certainly speaks for itself. Had Mel come up when Steve did, he may have made similar choices - and vice versa.
Mel at 20:40. Steve Gadd is "stupid"? Okay, sure. Ask Chick and everyone else who's hired him how stupid Steve is. What a horrendous sound: th-cam.com/video/n8A-gAwVnfM/w-d-xo.html
The brushwork alone is astounding. They DID get his sound, because he changed the drum "sound" world. Wish I'd been at the workshop for that one. Regardless, RIP, Mel.
A cautionary take of how a prodigious player can still find themselves completely out of touch when they become so dogmatic. It's a terrible place for such a great player to end up. We all know players like this, and life really looks like shit through those lenses. Work hard, be true to yourself, think of the long game, but DON'T be like Mel, kids...
Riccardo Pearlman you might want to check your definition of dogmatic.
Lewis never aspired to be an every drummer for every need kind of guy.
Jeff Hamilton told me by contrast Shelly Manne would take heads off drums etc to satisfy the recording session.
Lewis was an enigmatic drummer. It looks easy , it sounds easy, it’s not easy. Really no one played like Lewis. That’s what you should take away from this.
@@drewconlin9452 Not really my point. And the definition is fine. I agree Mel is a fantastic player- but I suggest people divorce his dogmatic thinking from the content of his playing. You can learn a lot by listening to his playing. His philosophy was, by comparison, toxic and shitty. Lewis was clearly both unwilling and unable to cope with what followed the peak of his generation. He clearly preferred thinking the music died after his heyday rather than to try and unpack what was happening around him. Buddy Rich was the same story. Angry. Toxic. Asshole. Not only is it sad to see how miserable these prodigies became, but it's sadder still to see how modern jazz of the past 20 years has really become a progressive art form again and might be something Lewis might have been able to embrace. Given what he had to say about someone like Gadd, I am willing to bet Mel Lewis would have some unbelievably shitty things to say about the likes of Tony Williams, Jack Dejohnette, and even someone like Bob Moses. No reasonable listener, or student of Jazz needs to hear that shit. Better to just listen to his drumming and learn what he brought to the game.
@@RiccardoPearlman I bet you swing real hard
Is it a clinic for baginners? Hes talking bout fundamentals for drummers.
He’s talking about things some have lost sight of and that we all should understand, like second line.
@@Riddim4 If only beginners would understand Jazz, pulse, swing and feel the way Mel Lewis is showing in this video, it would be great. I know some "supposed" good drummers who can't even feather the bass drum with the HH on 2 and 4 at 70 on a metronome. Some others who can't hold steady time on the slow blues version on Peter Erskine Jazz Essentials app (great one, by the way)... He doesn't "hit" the drums, just plays them beautifully... So if ever a beginner begins with these concepts, he will be good forever.... Thanks for posting !!!!
BATTEUR MAGAZINE : feathering is generally not very audible and thus often missed. Those who are serious about the instrument and the music will seek out the nuances. It’s easier now to seek out info than it’s ever been. Then we have use it, musically.
I totally agree @@Riddim4 I meant to answer to P-A Tollbom ;-)
BATTEUR MAGAZINE: mea culpa.
nothing shocking about Gadd/god breaking musical instruments. Stop being so prude
Mel, to call Gadd stupid only because he has a different approach regarding his drum sound, tells us a few things about you. Nothing more.
Sure that is what he said? I can't find the segment where he said this, now, the video is too long... but didn't he say it was stupid to play rock on K Zildjians and break them? He said Gadd was a good drummer but not a great drummer because he allowed the drum sound being controlled by the engineer... that is how it came across to me.
@@SAHBfan 1:21:35
you see how misleading jazz can be? if you can learn jazz you can do any style. that's true. but would you? after knowing really whats jazz about? you wouldn't-exactly like him. you would turn out to be that extremist musician who only plays that elite stuff. and that's a shame. nothing wrong with knopfler. or the smiths. or radiohead. or talking heads. yeah ac dc is "stupid rock" but it is fun to play. its just fun. jazz can be so misleading.
Absolutely. Ironic considering how it was working class music in the beginning. That’s why younger musicians in the 50s/60s like ornette or albert tried to bring back that old, open attitude
@@thetopface "working class music" ???? - it was black music - it was dance music - it was urban music - it was american music but hardly "working class music" - if you think in that terms you might call blues from the 1920s to 1940s "working class music" for american blacks and country music from the same period "working class music" for american whites. And jazz musicians usually looked down on both styles (even the R&B of the 1940s and 1950s)
2009framat what are you talking about? Jazz 100% arose from a black working class background. What university taught jazz before the 30s? It became a complex, idiomatic music before it was even accepted by the black middle class. And yes I would also say blues and country are working class. Jazz has always been HEAVILY influenced by the blues, and there are many different cultures that belong to the working class.
Usually blues and country musicians were seldom professional musicians
(maybe sometimes semi-professionals) and US-polish, -german, -italian,
-irish etc. "working class" audiences did not care for jazz - so it was
mainly not "working class" music but music (mainly) for afro-americans
from (mainly) afro-americans and not "working class" music from working
class people for working class audiences. That is what I am talking
about.
I do not "glorify" the "working class" like you do although I am "working class" and my family is/was.
I like Mel as a drummer but Steve Gadd is a much better musician
wrong
Steve Gadd isn’t a great drummer, he’s a GOOD drummer but he’s not a great drummer
I love good drummer not great drummer.
Not sure about this?
huh? guess it depends on what is a great drummer. Id prefer to be a great musician. Yeah Gadd is!
@Simone Di Sarro i agree ...from Brazil
Simone Di Sarro I agree, just quoting Mel
obviously Steve Gadd is more well known than this guy lol
Dark cynical man..very out of touch on many issues...actually kind of comical in sad way...but I do respect his accomplishments...etc
Out of touch with what issues? Because he doesn’t want Gadd’s balls in his mouth like 90% of half-assed drummers? Mel swung hard as fuck and supported the band MUSICALLY, a concept that many fusion/pop drummers are oblivious to.
Boy, he sure thinks highly of himself. Great drummer, legendary musician, for sure, but calling Steve Gadd stupid is a bit much. He likes to propagate his own prejudice for rock music and engineers and doesn’t understand the validity of other approaches to music. He says he has his integrity, and maybe he does, but his emphasis on being in control seems a bit weak of character. Clearly he’s a textbook model of a Jazz Snob. It’s unfortunate, he’s such a master technician on the drums. I suppose everyone has their shortcomings.
Great player, but really not a good teacher. Not good to spend 11 minutes saying the same thing over and over. Yes, we get it, use and develop the bass drum! But amazing player for sure.
I've nevsr hearx of this guy. Seems like a cringe/prank vid?