That fix addressed one problem- the saddle was too low to get a good string break, but it didn’t do anything to address the problem you described in the video’s intro- the high action caused by the neck angle.
Precisely. I didn't understand how this would help with the string height problem - ramping doesn't affect that unless it allows you to lower the saddle, and, as The Guitarologist suggests, there simply isn't enough saddle to do that.
Robert Newell One semi-hack way to fix it without resetting the neck is to replace the fingerboard with a tapered one and a taller saddle. Probably more work than just doing it right.
@@trackie1957 True. If you have enough meat on the original FB, you can taper it and refret, but really it's hopeless. As soneone else commented, there is enough on the bridge here to lower it, which is a simple and cheap (if time limited) solution.
Exactly. The string action didn’t change from what he did. He would have to deepen the saddle slot and plane down the top of the bridge to allow clearance. That would actually work, but might weaken the bridge in the process. It really would be best to remove that belly in the top before doing anything. There is no good solution on cheap guitars, because you quickly reach a point where the repair costs more than the guitar is worth.
If you look closely at the saddle at the end you can see that he has taken it down some, probably enough to improve the action, but he didn’t mention it or include it in the video.
You altered the break angle slightly to get a little more time out of a guitar that needs a neck reset. Awesome. Another last ditch effort would be shaving the bridge until you can't anymore.
I fixed a very simmilar Sigma by Martin by melting the glue under the lower fretboard. This enabled me to push the neck to where it needed to be, before I reglued. Used a regular iron for heat. I know it sounds like a hack job, but it was quick, and the guitar has performed well for a couple of years now. Good sustain and tone, and a very nice action. I akso intonated it properly, that always helps on the overall impression.
Agreed. Lots of Japanese guitars from this period were going for the Martin copy thing and many did very well with it. Takamine started out that way, Yairi, Nippon Gakki Yamahas are good, Sekova had a line of copies which were good...
I did a blog article in 2011 about my Yamaha G-250S classical guitar and certain others in the G-line from the mid 70's that in my opinion sound every bit as good as a Ramirez 1A at a fraction of the cost. Apparently a lot of people agreed. It's had many thousands of hits, hundreds of comments, and is constantly linked to from people trying to sell their old Yamaha classical guitars on eBay and Reverb. And yes, their steel string guitars from that era are amazing too. I've got YT videos of me playing "Lagrima" and "The Foundling Goes Home" on that G-250S. If anybody has a better sounding recording of classical guitar (sonically speaking), I'd sure like to hear it. 70's Yamahas were unbelievably good sounding guitars and prove that laminated backs and sides mean nothing.
Interesting Idea. Cheap and quick, definitely the way to go for a lower end instrument. I do have a question though. For a lower end instrument, would it also advisable to perhaps shave the top of the bridge down about 1/32nd or 1/64th allowing more of the saddle to protrude, thus allowing the tech the ability to shave the saddle, slightly, to also delay the inevitable reset? Sincerely: someone less skilled than you guys are.
There are 3 other classic fixes for this problem: 1) I was taught to literally plane down the bridge, and re-cut the saddle slot deeper. 2) When you shot vid of the neck, it is clear that the fingerboard kicks up a bit when it hits the body. A heat press can be used with steam, to actually bend the neck towards the back of the guitar, at the neck-body joint. (This kind of "double angle" neck joint is very common on older Ovation round backs, right out of the factory.) 3) The neck can be planed, taking a bit more wood off the lower fret area, and then a re-fret done. (This is quite costly, however) The first would be my choice on this instrument, because just cutting the pin holes as you did, and leaving material on the front of the bridge, may cause the strings to rattle there. This has happened to me many times, so I don't do it much.
GuitarMD Pittsburgh - maybe a fourth option. Cut the back loose under the neck heel around to the curve of the body and re-glue it with the proper neck angle. That would involve routing and binding but the break angle at the bridge could be fixed at the same time. Brad didn’t mention the neck relief either but I would imagine it was at a minimum already, that could be put back to spec as well.
theres another way, look up a vidya called "ten minute neck reset" , its arguably better than a neck reset in the traditional sense. real simple, clamp the guitar body to a work bench, get a straight edge block and neck cauls, straight edge on top of the fretboard the whole length and clamp this to the neck, stuff the whole body with rags, including the shoulders, leaving the neck side rim of the soundhole rag free and a couple of inches to each side of the fretboard, then gently clamp the neck at the nut downward to your workbench, get a steamer , blast into the soundhole for a minute, 30 secs if your steamer is powerful , then crank the "gentle" out of the neck to work bench clamp, about 2cm for a bad one, steam it again in the same spot, leave for three weeks. unclamp , restring. done.
You sound like a good flatpicker, here. I was at a jam session in Greenville this weekend. I was humbly entertained. I'm decent, they were incredible!
I've used similar bridge shaving techniques on all of my personal cheapo acoustics, it works well. I'll even plane the top of the bridge down in most cases because I like the notion of reducing mass where the energy transfer is occurring. The tone difference is honestly subjective and possibly negligible, but I try to convince myself that it makes my junkers sound better ;).
Cool fix idea! Ohh and of course he can play acoustic . I would love to see a tour of your shop area, tools ( lol, what chop sticks are you favorite brand), electronics, supplies especially what you keep on hand vs what you order. Also, could you do a step by step the process when someone comes in what you go over with them as to what they want done? I know it might seem like a boring idea for a video but I would really appreciate seeing a masters work space, maybe someone else would too!
Believe me, it's nothing impressive. I am probably the only one who would know where all my tools and parts are. It's the Brad system of random organization.
The fingerboard has significant up-ramp from the 14th fret to the sound hole. Some truss rod tightening should help that. The 'belly' would benefit from some rehydration, and it could possibly be eliminated. I had a 1964 Yamaha 12-string with a 3/4" belly bulge caused by very dry wood (
he forgot to tell you how he actually did end up shaving down the saddle, thats why he slotted the bridge to let the string "break" over the saddle once he lowered it.
There is also a second aspect to adjusting the string canal, apart from what already mentioned. On a guitar there are 2 designated points where the string-energy is transferred to the body: the nut and the saddle. In case of the saddle the strings need to run over it at a certain angle. On this Fender the angle was way too flat, the string would not press onto the saddle properly and energy got lost (or transferred in a "blurry" way via the wooden tailpiece). If the angle is too steep you risk damaging the string-core or winding (resulting in strings breaking unusually often over the saddle). If that happens you can still avoid the worst by filing the saddle a bit "rounder", but re-drilling the string-canal as Brad showed is the proper way. Depending on the construction of the soundboard (monopole [1 common resonating area], dipole [2 separated resonating areas] etc.) the angle of the strings over the saddle can have enormous impact on the tone. A lot of guitars from the 70s/80s area have their saddles sunken into the tailpiece to no end - quite a nuisance, but easy to fix like Brad showed here. Greetz!
That's what I was thinking, that is a thick bridge with plenty of spare strength and could be reduced by up to 5 mm if needed. The saddle slot would need deepening and the pin holes chamfered. This would look good and solve the string height problem. Personally, I don't like this 'fix'.
Hey I used that idea back in the late 70's with a drill and it would give the guitar a better bend of the strings for some reason and if the strings touched the wood I would shave it down just so the strings clear it, plus I always added a bridge or truss to bring that belly down. I used to drill a hole big enough so the screw would just drop thru on each end of the bridge and insert a piece of hardwood and rest it on the two bridges already there and screw the bridge down to mark the piece of wood then take it out and drill a smaller hole on each end and I inserted and called it a truss alleviating the stress. lol Truss sounded more professional than a piece of wood, but you would see that belly go down quick. I only wish I could make my belly go down that fast... That belly gets bigger much faster with heavy gauge strings so I would take the 12's or even 13's out and use 10's or 11's...
I have 2 F series Fenders. It's not a neck problem, it's a belly problem. Bridge doctors don't work on those guitars. The belly doesn't dish down in front of the bridge like other flat tops. I take the strings off, put a 5 pound weight on a level just behind the bridge and steam into the hole. Alternatively I just leave the weight on there for a month and put it in a humid place. Time and gravity will bring that belly down. Once they belly up they go back up fast when it rains if there is string tension.
This is a dead end repair and a no go solution for that problem. Better use the Dremel tool for making the bridgeslot 3-4 mm deeper an shave the bridgewood 3-4 mm down to win this battle on a effective way.
Love the effort and generous sharing of knowledge in your vids. Wish you were in my town. Ive got a blown up Vietnamese Vox that I need to fix. Keep the vids coming, bro. Really enjoy them.
I actually thought you were gonna do what my dad did with his Guild A-50 (not the more recent "A-50" acoustic, but a '51 or '52 hollowbody archtop), which is to drill two 6mm holes at the heel and then cram two 1/4" dowels in there, but that was to fix an actual crack in the neck. As for a "poor-mans's neck-reset" on a cheap guitar? Well, I use moisture, heat, weight and clamps. If the neck itself is still arrow-straight and the issue is that it is shifting forward at the neck-joint, then this won't work, but I find most of the time, with old inexpensive acoustic guitars that have ridiculously high action, someone kept it in a hot or dry place with the strings tuned to pitch and bowed the neck. Couldn't tell from the video if this was true of this guitar.
And I mean MY A-50. Two fucking years and I am still doing that. Well, I guess this is excusable since it *WAS* his when he did the repair . . . . . . but I will tell people about this hollowbody or that Les Paul that my dad HAS, and then show it to them. I STILL haven't played through that Reverberocket.
This is not a poormans neck reset - it's actually a poorman's bridge shave. That is to say, too lazy to bother shaving the bridge to lower the action. It does promise to improve the tone and volume however. So I'm ok with this kind of work...just not the way it was presented.
I had a similar problem on an el cheapo that had a lot of wood bridge height - used a dremel in a router attachement to lower the bridge 3mm (built a jig that fitted around the bridge) then lowered the bridge insert 2mm and all worked fine. If you take the bridge down too far (say under 10mm) you can loose bass but fortunately on el cheapos they usually use fairly tall bridges up to 25mm plus high.
Thanks for the comment. Humidity isn't a problem in Kentucky most of the year. But yeah, I've done that kind of thing before to fix bellying - stick some damp towels inside the sound hole and find a warm place and stack books or weights behind the bridge to keep pressure. A couple days of that will improve it, but usually it'll be right back like it was within a few months. And it won't really help much with the action because the neck angle hasn't changed.
The Guitologist Is bellying always bad? I've got a Bourgeois with a belly and the guitar has terrific action, tone and dynamic range. I thought it means the top is about as light and responsive as the materials will allow.
All acoustic guitars will probably belly at some point. Some more severe than others. Depends on, as you said, lightness of the build/bracing, environmental conditions, string tension, etc. If it still plays nice even with the bellying, you got luck and might not need a neck reset for a long. long time.
It depends - as The Guitologist said - on the build AND how you treat the guitar in terms of humidity. I had handmade guitars with enormous bulging of 4-6 mm (due to very thin, responsive soundboard) that were totally ok as they have been taken care of properly. Still, such a bulge is never a good thing, as the tailpiece's front will begin to imprint a furrow onto the soundboard thus damaging the wood there. Other guitars had way little belly and yet showed signs of starting cracks in lacquer and wood. Reason: dried out soundboard, improper handling etc. There have only been very rare cases that I have seen where the build was not up to a certain string gauge (e.g. too weak for 13 gauge string).
So, I think you leave out the reason for wanting a sharper angle over the saddle... is it because if you just lower the saddle you won’t have enough pressure down on the saddle to conduct the vibration down into the body? Basically, routing those slots is just to give you the ability to lower the saddle more, right?
Brad I remember the tech at the shop I worked in as a kid in the late 70's used a heat press for straightening out acoustic necks. from memory, he would leave it on for 48 or so hours and wasnt terribly expensive. is that method no longer used?
The neck is straight. The neck angle is the problem. The real solution is a neck reset. This is a cheaper possible workaround that might work on some guitars to avoid an expensive reset.
The Guitologist What about actually shaving the bridge down? I have shaved down the bridge on a couple of guitars with the same problem,and it turned out great.
Hey Brad! Would love to know your thoughts on doing a neck reset on a cheap Rogue resonator. I blocked behind the neck to push the neck closer to the strings... tryin not to apply so much that the edges & binding seperate.
Do you work on audio interfaces? I know pretty much whats wrong with it & I have a line on parts & a guy made a video showing me the Firewire chip that needs to be changed or one of the caps in that one small circuit board. You would need a work station as not to burn up the thing I guess? Everyone says I would need a work station to do that job. Thx
Right. This just gives more break angle over the saddle but does nothing to address the string height. Unless he shaved the saddle down even further and forgot to mention that part. Even then i dont think there was enough saddle to start with to make much difference.
How has this affected the action height? Not at all. Just break angle. So this has nothing to do with the neck at all. You want to lower the height without removing the neck then take off the bridge and shave material off the back
I would have. That bridge has some meat on it. By shaving it down you increase the angle a lot and combined with routing some slots it would have great downward pressure on the saddle.
First thing I thought he was going to say, when I saw all the thickness of the bridge. Sand it down a bit, recut the saddle slot deeper, and cut the string ramps as he did. Doing that, you could lower the action, without getting the neck reset. I've seen it done on several guitars before, but if you get the bridge too thin, it might effect the tone negatively. Of course another option is using it was a dedicated slide guitar. The string ramps do help though, no doubt, and doing it with a drill seems like a clever way of making it an easier job. Me - I always use hand tools - I'm dangerous with power tools (even hand tools sometimes)!
I have a little fix for a acoustic with a belly it's risky but I take a steamer and cover the sound hole pump steam in and but a piece of wood over highest point and then a long metal bar and clamp on it and force the belly down and keep steaming it and letting it set over and over until it flats out for the most part done this 2 times in Yamaha red labels that are known for belly and made them dead flat!
exellent tip brad but i would had stepped down the o.d. bits with the decending string o.d. so it doesnt look so augered out. but it's not mine so BREAK IT. na lol just havin fun. thx again brad
well thats a no brainer. Just rerout the saddle slot deeper and shave some off the massive bridge. You changed the break angle of the strings, but done nothing to lower the action
You should just take the top of the bridge down about a 1/16" of an inch and sand it smooth. I would use up to #2000 wet or dry sandpaper and some #0000 steel wool to polish it off..
I had one years ago .. btw . That neck looks like it needed more tjan a reset ... looked like a roller coaster to me .. maybe someone over cranked the truss rod .... I always reset mecks anhair.more than everyone else because I was the truss rodntonne at half tension .. that way you can adjust ip or down depending on the time of year or what the humidity is doing.. the dryer the more you need to back it off .. However most truss rods never see anything but tightening action done to them in fact a lot of builders don't set it for mid tention when building and most never even lube the nut and washer when building the neck . Even the top companies.. That start with the letters M. F. And T .. unfortunately luthiers forgot to pass it down over the years .. shame So back it down until its almost loose .. then tighten it up till its snug and note the tension .. then with a little .. litlle.. snug iust snug enough to keep from bowingntoo mich inder tension and set the neck to the about the middle of the saddle .. or the top if you have a short one.. now you'll be able to go both ways ..
did nothing for the action why not shave down the bridge so then you can shave down the saddle ive done it on two guitars this week and it helps the action on guitars that have these type problems also use lighter gauge strings
Love watching your videos but I gotta say this method is a method I do not agree with. Plus you could have been a little smarter and collected the Rosewood or Ebony but I believe it was Rosewood - you could have used this later down the road for making repairs on fretboard chips and whatever. You could have easily lifted that bridge off and sanded it down just as easy without butchering the strings slots because know it looks pretty ugly - even if it’s a cheapy guitar.
Lots of manufacturers ramp the peg holes, lots of boutique ones, in fact. And there was a cost factor in this repair. I presented the customer with options and they chose this one. As for the rosewood...I have a bags of that stuff already.
It's a Fender acoustic, the very definition of a disposable guitar! I learned my first chords on one. I have one even now. You did a great job and it sounds good for what it is. My advice would be to get a newer acoustic like a Blue Ridge or a new used guitar. Five hundred bucks can get you a nice modern acoustic.
I own a br 60 and I think it was like 500 bucks about 6 years ago. Now they’re like 800. Also I once owned a br160 all solid and I traded it to a music store for my 60 because even tho the 60 has plywood back n sides it sounded much better, at least to my ears. I also worked for Saga Musical instruments back in ‘91. The Blueridge is a great guitar.
I got the belly out of a 12 string I got new but I humidified for about two weeks detuned it & put a bunch of weights on the belly & let it sit for two days the belly is Gone & it's holding.
I have taken the belly out of guitars by using an iron , heated the wood to about 150 degrees and put barbell weights to hold it down. It held just fine.
Brad, couple tricks for you. 1. save old string ball ends and slide them over the strings to move the twisted end deeper in the slot. twisted part on the saddle = bad. 2. a bridge doctor can correct a top bellying a lot of the time. www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?search=bridge%20doctor
That fix addressed one problem- the saddle was too low to get a good string break, but it didn’t do anything to address the problem you described in the video’s intro- the high action caused by the neck angle.
Precisely. I didn't understand how this would help with the string height problem - ramping doesn't affect that unless it allows you to lower the saddle, and, as The Guitarologist suggests, there simply isn't enough saddle to do that.
Robert Newell
One semi-hack way to fix it without resetting the neck is to replace the fingerboard with a tapered one and a taller saddle. Probably more work than just doing it right.
@@trackie1957 True. If you have enough meat on the original FB, you can taper it and refret, but really it's hopeless. As soneone else commented, there is enough on the bridge here to lower it, which is a simple and cheap (if time limited) solution.
Exactly. The string action didn’t change from what he did. He would have to deepen the saddle slot and plane down the top of the bridge to allow clearance. That would actually work, but might weaken the bridge in the process. It really would be best to remove that belly in the top before doing anything. There is no good solution on cheap guitars, because you quickly reach a point where the repair costs more than the guitar is worth.
If you look closely at the saddle at the end you can see that he has taken it down some, probably enough to improve the action, but he didn’t mention it or include it in the video.
You altered the break angle slightly to get a little more time out of a guitar that needs a neck reset. Awesome. Another last ditch effort would be shaving the bridge until you can't anymore.
This model was my first guitar. I still have 35 years later. Sounds great and a little underrated if you ask me.
That looks like a thick bridge, why not shave it down also?
Correct you can SHAVE that thick bridge then add that technique you did....
@@sprikitiksprikitik3929 (
I fixed a very simmilar Sigma by Martin by melting the glue under the lower fretboard. This enabled me to push the neck to where it needed to be, before I reglued. Used a regular iron for heat.
I know it sounds like a hack job, but it was quick, and the guitar has performed well for a couple of years now. Good sustain and tone, and a very nice action. I akso intonated it properly, that always helps on the overall impression.
Some of those older Fenders sounded really well. Iv'e also heard some of the older 70's ish Yamaha models that had great tone also.
Agreed. Lots of Japanese guitars from this period were going for the Martin copy thing and many did very well with it. Takamine started out that way, Yairi, Nippon Gakki Yamahas are good, Sekova had a line of copies which were good...
I did a blog article in 2011 about my Yamaha G-250S classical guitar and certain others in the G-line from the mid 70's that in my opinion sound every bit as good as a Ramirez 1A at a fraction of the cost. Apparently a lot of people agreed. It's had many thousands of hits, hundreds of comments, and is constantly linked to from people trying to sell their old Yamaha classical guitars on eBay and Reverb. And yes, their steel string guitars from that era are amazing too. I've got YT videos of me playing "Lagrima" and "The Foundling Goes Home" on that G-250S. If anybody has a better sounding recording of classical guitar (sonically speaking), I'd sure like to hear it. 70's Yamahas were unbelievably good sounding guitars and prove that laminated backs and sides mean nothing.
do you have a link to that blog? I'd like to read it.
I don't know if it will work here or not but: yahoobuckaroo.blogspot.com/2011/10/yamaha-g-250s-classical-guitar.html
my 2001 yamaha has great tone. so do my hands.
that's some fine picking there my friend.
wow what a way to play the guitar at the end., you absolutely rained hell with that thing lol
I hope that's good. :)
Interesting Idea. Cheap and quick, definitely the way to go for a lower end instrument. I do have a question though. For a lower end instrument, would it also advisable to perhaps shave the top of the bridge down about 1/32nd or 1/64th allowing more of the saddle to protrude, thus allowing the tech the ability to shave the saddle, slightly, to also delay the inevitable reset? Sincerely: someone less skilled than you guys are.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the videos and Time you take to explain. You are appreciated. Thank you
4:55 An eerie Johnny Cash stares at you with utter approval for a nice guitar-fix :) Good episode, thanks!
I thought it was Al Pachino until I read your comment.
There are 3 other classic fixes for this problem:
1) I was taught to literally plane down the bridge, and re-cut the saddle slot deeper.
2) When you shot vid of the neck, it is clear that the fingerboard kicks up a bit when it hits the body. A heat press can be used with steam, to actually bend the neck towards the back of the guitar, at the neck-body joint. (This kind of "double angle" neck joint is very common on older Ovation round backs, right out of the factory.)
3) The neck can be planed, taking a bit more wood off the lower fret area, and then a re-fret done. (This is quite costly, however)
The first would be my choice on this instrument, because just cutting the pin holes as you did, and leaving material on the front of the bridge, may cause the strings to rattle there. This has happened to me many times, so I don't do it much.
GuitarMD Pittsburgh - maybe a fourth option. Cut the back loose under the neck heel around to the curve of the body and re-glue it with the proper neck angle. That would involve routing and binding but the break angle at the bridge could be fixed at the same time. Brad didn’t mention the neck relief either but I would imagine it was at a minimum already, that could be put back to spec as well.
theres another way, look up a vidya called "ten minute neck reset" , its arguably better than a neck reset in the traditional sense.
real simple, clamp the guitar body to a work bench, get a straight edge block and neck cauls, straight edge on top of the fretboard the whole length and clamp this to the neck, stuff the whole body with rags, including the shoulders, leaving the neck side rim of the soundhole rag free and a couple of inches to each side of the fretboard, then gently clamp the neck at the nut downward to your workbench, get a steamer , blast into the soundhole for a minute, 30 secs if your steamer is powerful , then crank the "gentle" out of the neck to work bench clamp, about 2cm for a bad one, steam it again in the same spot, leave for three weeks. unclamp , restring.
done.
Priceless. I'm gonna do it right now
Boy, the Kentucky Bluegrass came out of that acoustic, right now! You are a man of many styles! Thankz
I'm not a good flatpicker, but I like trying.
Audio Tech Labs don't Kentuckians learn how to flat pick before they walk?
Flatpicking and thumbpicking. Wish I was better at both.
You sound like a good flatpicker, here. I was at a jam session in Greenville this weekend. I was humbly entertained. I'm decent, they were incredible!
I've used similar bridge shaving techniques on all of my personal cheapo acoustics, it works well. I'll even plane the top of the bridge down in most cases because I like the notion of reducing mass where the energy transfer is occurring. The tone difference is honestly subjective and possibly negligible, but I try to convince myself that it makes my junkers sound better ;).
Cool fix idea! Ohh and of course he can play acoustic .
I would love to see a tour of your shop area, tools ( lol, what chop sticks are you favorite brand), electronics, supplies especially what you keep on hand vs what you order. Also, could you do a step by step the process when someone comes in what you go over with them as to what they want done?
I know it might seem like a boring idea for a video but I would really appreciate seeing a masters work space, maybe someone else would too!
Believe me, it's nothing impressive. I am probably the only one who would know where all my tools and parts are. It's the Brad system of random organization.
I use the same system. My wife just organized my workshop, and it's like that Thomas Dolby song - "She's tidied up, now I can't find anything!".
Every damn time brother...
The fingerboard has significant up-ramp from the 14th fret to the sound hole. Some truss rod tightening should help that. The 'belly' would benefit from some rehydration, and it could possibly be eliminated. I had a 1964 Yamaha 12-string with a 3/4" belly bulge caused by very dry wood (
cool idea, however ,sorry I must have missed it how would that help with the action on the guitar? Thank you in advance!
he forgot to tell you how he actually did end up shaving down the saddle, thats why he slotted the bridge to let the string "break" over the saddle once he lowered it.
There is also a second aspect to adjusting the string canal, apart from what already mentioned. On a guitar there are 2 designated points where the string-energy is transferred to the body: the nut and the saddle. In case of the saddle the strings need to run over it at a certain angle. On this Fender the angle was way too flat, the string would not press onto the saddle properly and energy got lost (or transferred in a "blurry" way via the wooden tailpiece). If the angle is too steep you risk damaging the string-core or winding (resulting in strings breaking unusually often over the saddle). If that happens you can still avoid the worst by filing the saddle a bit "rounder", but re-drilling the string-canal as Brad showed is the proper way.
Depending on the construction of the soundboard (monopole [1 common resonating area], dipole [2 separated resonating areas] etc.) the angle of the strings over the saddle can have enormous impact on the tone. A lot of guitars from the 70s/80s area have their saddles sunken into the tailpiece to no end - quite a nuisance, but easy to fix like Brad showed here. Greetz!
If you take the top of the bridge down, you will have more saddle height and give the strings more break-over angle behind the bridge
Or...Sand down the bridge, re-tap(chamfer?) the pin holes, and chisel deeper the saddle channel.
That's what I was thinking, that is a thick bridge with plenty of spare strength and could be reduced by up to 5 mm if needed. The saddle slot would need deepening and the pin holes chamfered. This would look good and solve the string height problem. Personally, I don't like this 'fix'.
Thank you for sharing that trick I have a few guitars I’m going to try this on
I thought this addressed lowering the action without a neck reset ?
Mark Laesch you thought wrong! LoL 😝
Those f series fenders from J A pan are actually pretty nice old guitars
Hey I used that idea back in the late 70's with a drill and it would give the guitar a better bend of the strings for some reason and if the strings touched the wood I would shave it down just so the strings clear it, plus I always added a bridge or truss to bring that belly down. I used to drill a hole big enough so the screw would just drop thru on each end of the bridge and insert a piece of hardwood and rest it on the two bridges already there and screw the bridge down to mark the piece of wood then take it out and drill a smaller hole on each end and I inserted and called it a truss alleviating the stress. lol Truss sounded more professional than a piece of wood, but you would see that belly go down quick. I only wish I could make my belly go down that fast... That belly gets bigger much faster with heavy gauge strings so I would take the 12's or even 13's out and use 10's or 11's...
This is so awesome brotha, thanks for sharing your knowledge! Gonna try this on an old Harmony that is just beyond the pale :)
Thanks! I have some cheap beginner guitars I shaved the bridge to the max & have like 3/64th of saddle on the ends.
I have 2 F series Fenders. It's not a neck problem, it's a belly problem. Bridge doctors don't work on those guitars. The belly doesn't dish down in front of the bridge like other flat tops.
I take the strings off, put a 5 pound weight on a level just behind the bridge and steam into the hole. Alternatively I just leave the weight on there for a month and put it in a humid place. Time and gravity will bring that belly down.
Once they belly up they go back up fast when it rains if there is string tension.
that cash picture behind you freaked me out, I thought someone was watching you lol :)
This is a dead end repair and a no go solution for that problem. Better use the Dremel tool for making the bridgeslot 3-4 mm deeper an shave the bridgewood 3-4 mm down to win this battle on a effective way.
Love the effort and generous sharing of knowledge in your vids. Wish you were in my town. Ive got a blown up Vietnamese Vox that I need to fix. Keep the vids coming, bro. Really enjoy them.
This has nothing to do with a neck reset...it's a break angle adjustment at the bridge.
Agree. Misleading title.
I actually thought you were gonna do what my dad did with his Guild A-50 (not the more recent "A-50" acoustic, but a '51 or '52 hollowbody archtop), which is to drill two 6mm holes at the heel and then cram two 1/4" dowels in there, but that was to fix an actual crack in the neck. As for a "poor-mans's neck-reset" on a cheap guitar? Well, I use moisture, heat, weight and clamps. If the neck itself is still arrow-straight and the issue is that it is shifting forward at the neck-joint, then this won't work, but I find most of the time, with old inexpensive acoustic guitars that have ridiculously high action, someone kept it in a hot or dry place with the strings tuned to pitch and bowed the neck. Couldn't tell from the video if this was true of this guitar.
And I mean MY A-50. Two fucking years and I am still doing that. Well, I guess this is excusable since it *WAS* his when he did the repair . . . . . . but I will tell people about this hollowbody or that Les Paul that my dad HAS, and then show it to them. I STILL haven't played through that Reverberocket.
Another "save"! Good work, Brad...
Thanks, Abe. I know you mean it, you're always honest.
This is not a poormans neck reset - it's actually a poorman's bridge shave. That is to say, too lazy to bother shaving the bridge to lower the action. It does promise to improve the tone and volume however. So I'm ok with this kind of work...just not the way it was presented.
David Higginbotham True. That "procedure" didn't do anything to change the action
I had a similar problem on an el cheapo that had a lot of wood bridge height - used a dremel in a router attachement to lower the bridge 3mm (built a jig that fitted around the bridge) then lowered the bridge insert 2mm and all worked fine. If you take the bridge down too far (say under 10mm) you can loose bass but fortunately on el cheapos they usually use fairly tall bridges up to 25mm plus high.
Woah, how many times has that thing had a fret dress? Too many, I'd say.
ever thin of using a humidifier for that bulge? a few days and it might go away..worked for me .
Thanks for the comment. Humidity isn't a problem in Kentucky most of the year. But yeah, I've done that kind of thing before to fix bellying - stick some damp towels inside the sound hole and find a warm place and stack books or weights behind the bridge to keep pressure. A couple days of that will improve it, but usually it'll be right back like it was within a few months. And it won't really help much with the action because the neck angle hasn't changed.
The Guitologist Is bellying always bad? I've got a Bourgeois with a belly and the guitar has terrific action, tone and dynamic range. I thought it means the top is about as light and responsive as the materials will allow.
All acoustic guitars will probably belly at some point. Some more severe than others. Depends on, as you said, lightness of the build/bracing, environmental conditions, string tension, etc. If it still plays nice even with the bellying, you got luck and might not need a neck reset for a long. long time.
It depends - as The Guitologist said - on the build AND how you treat the guitar in terms of humidity. I had handmade guitars with enormous bulging of 4-6 mm (due to very thin, responsive soundboard) that were totally ok as they have been taken care of properly. Still, such a bulge is never a good thing, as the tailpiece's front will begin to imprint a furrow onto the soundboard thus damaging the wood there.
Other guitars had way little belly and yet showed signs of starting cracks in lacquer and wood. Reason: dried out soundboard, improper handling etc. There have only been very rare cases that I have seen where the build was not up to a certain string gauge (e.g. too weak for 13 gauge string).
What size is this dremel bit? Want to try this on an old Harmony
Needs to be just slightly larger than your largest string gauge on low E.
You can also rampart in front of the saddle as Ibanez does on some of their acoustics.
So, I think you leave out the reason for wanting a sharper angle over the saddle... is it because if you just lower the saddle you won’t have enough pressure down on the saddle to conduct the vibration down into the body?
Basically, routing those slots is just to give you the ability to lower the saddle more, right?
Great bluegrass picking.
Brad I remember the tech at the shop I worked in as a kid in the late 70's used a heat press for straightening out acoustic necks. from memory, he would leave it on for 48 or so hours and wasnt terribly expensive. is that method no longer used?
The neck is straight. The neck angle is the problem. The real solution is a neck reset. This is a cheaper possible workaround that might work on some guitars to avoid an expensive reset.
The Guitologist What about actually shaving the bridge down? I have shaved down the bridge on a couple of guitars with the same problem,and it turned out great.
what size of shank do i need to cut slots for bridge pin ramps great video's
Personally, I'd opt for shaving down the bridge so that you can get a bit more saddle and get the action down to a proper level that way.
I don't think the two methods are mutually exclusive. You could make the relief channels for the strings _and_ shave down the bridge.
Brad, at what angle was the dremel at, I'm worried about the string pin not being able to do it's job
that hi E string was changlin' like a mammer jammer.
Nice fix Brad !! good picking!Cheers
Hey Brad! Would love to know your thoughts on doing a neck reset on a cheap Rogue resonator. I blocked behind the neck to push the neck closer to the strings... tryin not to apply so much that the edges & binding seperate.
Do you work on audio interfaces? I know pretty much whats wrong with it & I have a line on parts & a guy made a video showing me the Firewire chip that needs to be changed or one of the caps in that one small circuit board. You would need a work station as not to burn up the thing I guess? Everyone says I would need a work station to do that job. Thx
yeah I'm not sure how that changed the action
Right. This just gives more break angle over the saddle but does nothing to address the string height. Unless he shaved the saddle down even further and forgot to mention that part. Even then i dont think there was enough saddle to start with to make much difference.
wait here,
how does that lower the action?
Ramping the bridge allows you to sand down the saddle further than you could without ramping. The alternative is a neck reset.
Altering the depth behind the saddle shouldn't affect the string height.
ha! @ 4:55 that painting on the wall behind you looks like mr. sneaky man sneakin up behind you. is that johnny cash?
That is the Man in Black, yes.
How has this affected the action height? Not at all. Just break angle. So this has nothing to do with the neck at all. You want to lower the height without removing the neck then take off the bridge and shave material off the back
Why not shave the bridge down instead of cutting the slots?
TimmyP1955 it was too low to cut
Peroxides Poisons I believe he's talking about the actual bridge,not the saddle
The angle at which the strings go down into the well would have been worse. This can lead to 'dancing string" on the bridge.
I would have.
That bridge has some meat on it.
By shaving it down you increase the angle a lot and combined with routing some slots it would have great downward pressure on the saddle.
First thing I thought he was going to say, when I saw all the thickness of the bridge. Sand it down a bit, recut the saddle slot deeper, and cut the string ramps as he did. Doing that, you could lower the action, without getting the neck reset. I've seen it done on several guitars before, but if you get the bridge too thin, it might effect the tone negatively. Of course another option is using it was a dedicated slide guitar. The string ramps do help though, no doubt, and doing it with a drill seems like a clever way of making it an easier job. Me - I always use hand tools - I'm dangerous with power tools (even hand tools sometimes)!
who did the painting of Neal diamond?
I have a little fix for a acoustic with a belly it's risky but I take a steamer and cover the sound hole pump steam in and but a piece of wood over highest point and then a long metal bar and clamp on it and force the belly down and keep steaming it and letting it set over and over until it flats out for the most part done this 2 times in Yamaha red labels that are known for belly and made them dead flat!
exellent tip brad but i would had stepped down the o.d. bits with the decending string o.d. so it doesnt look so augered out. but it's not mine so BREAK IT. na lol just havin fun. thx again brad
Brilliant. Both.
The JLD Bridge Doctor works well for 20 bucks.
WhippJunior I thought they were more expensive than that.
Krusty Buzzard Stewmac has two. Standard $22 & Brass $52.
well thats a no brainer. Just rerout the saddle slot deeper and shave some off the massive bridge. You changed the break angle of the strings, but done nothing to lower the action
Okey now give us a tutorial on how u played the ending
You should just take the top of the bridge down about a 1/16" of an inch and sand it smooth. I would use up to #2000 wet or dry sandpaper and some #0000 steel wool to polish it off..
Why not use steam to reset the neck? I hear people are having amazing results without having to take the guitar apart
This didn't fix the issue though... You coukd have removed the bridge and removed some material from the bottom before reattaching to the body.
I had one years ago ..
btw . That neck looks like it needed more tjan a reset ... looked like a roller coaster to me .. maybe someone over cranked the truss rod .... I always reset mecks anhair.more than everyone else because I was the truss rodntonne at half tension .. that way you can adjust ip or down depending on the time of year or what the humidity is doing.. the dryer the more you need to back it off .. However most truss rods never see anything but tightening action done to them in fact a lot of builders don't set it for mid tention when building and most never even lube the nut and washer when building the neck . Even the top companies.. That start with the letters M. F. And T .. unfortunately luthiers forgot to pass it down over the years .. shame
So back it down until its almost loose .. then tighten it up till its snug and note the tension .. then with a little .. litlle.. snug iust snug enough to keep from bowingntoo mich inder tension and set the neck to the about the middle of the saddle .. or the top if you have a short one.. now you'll be able to go both ways ..
Two thumbs up, thanx
Sh!t if it works it works right?? Nice job sir!
did nothing for the action why not shave down the bridge so then you can shave down the saddle ive done it on two guitars this week and it helps the action on guitars that have these type problems also use lighter gauge strings
When you hit it with the drill i just cringed. But the end result was great,and you can really play mate.Cheers
tidy move my friend😊
Brad, you're a jack-of-all-trades, MASTER of ALL.
fender lives again
It was headed for Slideville.
This video reminded me of dental work.
Nice job man. If that Brdge is rosewood, with all that CITES governance going on you could've bagged up the dust and sold it on ☺
I think it is rosewood. They painted it black from the factory to mimic ebony.
Good fix Brad,,,, btw bud,,, did you know there's a weird old guy looking over your shoulder?
I have no idea who that guy is. I just liked the picture. Wonder who he is. Good looking guy. I bet he was a hit with the ladies.
Maybe Johnny Cash :-)
it was a prince from the Renaisance
That didn't help hardly any remove the bridge make it thinner
Make an acrylic cover for when you have to drill the top like that. I learned the hard way Murphys Law
Love watching your videos but I gotta say this method is a method I do not agree with. Plus you could have been a little smarter and collected the Rosewood or Ebony but I believe it was Rosewood - you could have used this later down the road for making repairs on fretboard chips and whatever. You could have easily lifted that bridge off and sanded it down just as easy without butchering the strings slots because know it looks pretty ugly - even if it’s a cheapy guitar.
Lots of manufacturers ramp the peg holes, lots of boutique ones, in fact. And there was a cost factor in this repair. I presented the customer with options and they chose this one. As for the rosewood...I have a bags of that stuff already.
Might mention don't breath in that rose wood....
So at the video end a fellow has to show off his playing ability at bluegrass type flatpicking. It's really predictable.
I'm take the old Stella behind u
Whoa - bit much - did you tell the guy before you changed his guitar forever? Buy some nuts saws
the action is still to high
It's a Fender acoustic, the very definition of a disposable guitar! I learned my first chords on one. I have one even now.
You did a great job and it sounds good for what it is. My advice would be to get a newer acoustic like a Blue Ridge or a new used guitar. Five hundred bucks can get you a nice modern acoustic.
I own a br 60 and I think it was like 500 bucks about 6 years ago. Now they’re like 800. Also I once owned a br160 all solid and I traded it to a music store for my 60 because even tho the 60 has plywood back n sides it sounded much better, at least to my ears. I also worked for Saga Musical instruments back in ‘91. The Blueridge is a great guitar.
@@wyattsdad8561
Thanks! Blue Ridge do make great guitars for the money!
Is that Barbie play house collectible?
I got the belly out of a 12 string I got new but I humidified for about two weeks detuned it & put a bunch of weights on the belly & let it sit for two days the belly is Gone & it's holding.
Watchman4u is it still holding?
I have taken the belly out of guitars by using an iron , heated the wood to about 150 degrees and put barbell weights to hold it down. It held just fine.
@@TestarossaRocks Yes
Brad, couple tricks for you. 1. save old string ball ends and slide them over the strings to move the twisted end deeper in the slot. twisted part on the saddle = bad.
2. a bridge doctor can correct a top bellying a lot of the time.
www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?search=bridge%20doctor
Thats not a neck reset! Its a nice trick, but definately not by the definition of a neck reset. Misleading video.
Obviously it’s not a neck reset.
OMG!
To bad your taking away the intonation. It will sound out of tune by doing this. Did u find this in the dumpster of guitar center?
Hahaha!
Why not get a new saddle?