Airbot Typhoon32 4in1 ESC REPAIR

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 191

  • @KyleLi
    @KyleLi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    This video is literally going to save me so much money... lost a t-motor 55a pro ii esc and repairing it soon using this. Just a $40ish investment into a heat gun and new components and I can repair all the escs I want into the future.

  • @tobic2139
    @tobic2139 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for awesome repair Videos :)
    For testing the ESC after repair you can use car light bulbs (3pcs connected in Star) instead of a motor.
    If all three phases are working the brightness of the bulbs should be equal to each other.
    I use 3x 20W BA15s Bulbs.

    • @cypher0123
      @cypher0123 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thats brilliant.... im always using a motor and hope nothing explodes. Will the esc also "drive" them or just the boot beeps

  • @gordonthetford9418
    @gordonthetford9418 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    You just blew my mind, I've had a few issues in the past with some of the SMD components on a few different boards sliding around if I get the board too hot and bump them accidentally, I always thought that unless you had one of the precision robotic arms designed for stuff like this you could just forget fixing it yourself, I see now that it really just takes good technique and steady hands, thanks for the awesome video!

  • @DamienLanders
    @DamienLanders 5 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    GREAT VIDEO MY FRIEND 👍👍👍 I LEARNED A LOT Joshua Bardwell was right to send people to your Channel you guys are really knowledgeable and I can appreciate the knowledge you both share

    • @thecraftking113
      @thecraftking113 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Just did the same from bardwells channel very impressive

    • @mangodron842
      @mangodron842 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      same!!

    • @Germ0o
      @Germ0o 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Joshua Bardwell sent me here. Really good information thanks!

  • @WarChest
    @WarChest 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    And here I thought I was the only one who repaired ESCs that were damaged in flight. Really *fantastic* job on this repair!!

  • @markmanning239
    @markmanning239 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Because of you I replaced a mosfit on one of my ESC!!! I Thank You .
    There is no way I could have done this with out you.

  • @CarbonGlassMan
    @CarbonGlassMan 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very very helpful. Thanks. This is an important skill in this hobby because these boards stop working all the time.

  • @MDimosN
    @MDimosN 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've seen in the past this video and never thought that I have a chance to do that! But now its time!
    Thank you very much!

  • @nategoodwin3329
    @nategoodwin3329 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As a drone racer, this is a crazy savings tool. Thank you!

  • @ОлегГазов-г8с
    @ОлегГазов-г8с 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    OMG! I live your english!!!!!!
    It is easy to understand what you saying!

  • @AL-jc5xs
    @AL-jc5xs 5 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I really learned something new today

  • @dubmfg
    @dubmfg 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    wow this is fantastic, im gonna save so many ESC's. Exactly what I needed, a louis rossman of RC

  • @rchaze
    @rchaze 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    sweet! I am going to try this now. I get all four motors super hot from all the motor screws and motors all the way across frame within 30 seconds of hover. only happened after a crash. after ruling out what I know this is my next check thanks!

  • @RGMGFitness
    @RGMGFitness 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nicely done! You've got a very steady hand and nicely explained as well. 👍👍👍 Seeing this done really helps understand how these ESC's work....👍👍👍👍👍👍

  • @Creator1406
    @Creator1406 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your videos are hypnotizing ;o Your soldering skills is better than a machine!

  • @adayinthelife5772
    @adayinthelife5772 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent operation Dr. Livyu.

  • @JorgeJimenez2020
    @JorgeJimenez2020 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very nice video, I may try this in the future with my broken 4in1 ESCs, I still have one or two around there that are dead.

  • @masumoto007
    @masumoto007 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Omg....I just learnt soo much!
    Thank you soo much for your time!

  • @sunrizer
    @sunrizer 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for sharing man, I always learn a lot from your videos👍

  • @Catiadr
    @Catiadr 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm looking forward to trying this

  • @_Brando_69
    @_Brando_69 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your videos. You have saved me a lot of money already. Thank you!

  • @j.finesseflights1403
    @j.finesseflights1403 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you my brother! This video jus saved me $50!

  • @simonebanana
    @simonebanana ปีที่แล้ว

    You make it seem easy, 😂 big up to you friend.

  • @tinysfpv7105
    @tinysfpv7105 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanks for sharing your knowledge I love watching your videos

  • @reuvenabit
    @reuvenabit 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you dear friend, so i got two mosfet transistors burn without know that. After your tutorial i got another 2 from my older typhoon and resolder them.
    It work's great thank you!!
    I wanted to ask you too about dont recognized 2 from 4 of the esc's in blheli32.

  • @CulverCt1
    @CulverCt1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    thank you so much for the knowledge

  • @andrewbt87
    @andrewbt87 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've repaired the same ESC, the first batch had problems, mine had two mosftes that got broken in pair and didn't look that good. After I changed the mosfets the ESC did beep correctly but didn't spin right, I had to change the driver and gate resistors and then it worked perfectly.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      yeah depending on the circumstances the drivers and other parts can become broken.

    • @prathmeshdk
      @prathmeshdk 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      How do I find if drivers or resistors are broken coz my broken 4in1 esc doesn't show any continuity/broken mosfet. But BLheli shows an error for one of the ESC. Please help.

  • @die_hertz
    @die_hertz 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Damn, I love some good rework.
    Well done, mate

  • @SevereSaint
    @SevereSaint 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Your video has inspired me to purchase a heat gun and attempt to convert some of my 3-in-1 ESCs back to 4-in-1s. I've done some FET replacements where it looks like I fixed the problem, and the motor spins again. However if I give it more throttle than idle it runs very rough and sometimes resets the ESC. What could be causing this? Too much heat in the repair job? Not soldering properly? Other components down the line that aren't working?

  • @dafadashamsta
    @dafadashamsta 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for this video. I need to start saving my bad esc and try this.

    • @MrSmithFPV
      @MrSmithFPV 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, same here!

  • @TheFpc20
    @TheFpc20 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video for teaching, i have a new 4 in 1 esc, never used where one of the 4 motors pin out looks like have problem because motors even make sound when i connect lipo, all others 3 do it but one not, i did make sure that is not a motor problem because i change th motor by one that sound, what can be the issue with it?

  • @alexandrumusy
    @alexandrumusy 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    well done Liviu , Again !

  • @xdroner1009
    @xdroner1009 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice rework, keep going !

  • @houseofpainINKS
    @houseofpainINKS 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Remember to thank Joshua Bardwell putting your video on his , now i can fix esc's, now what about flught controllers?

  • @micsherwood4930
    @micsherwood4930 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brilliant!

  • @mlx83
    @mlx83 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    ... and 2019 Nobel Price goes to .... seriously I will try this on my old broken esc :)

  • @FlyingPolak
    @FlyingPolak 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome work. Subbed!

  • @mrtokyo1989
    @mrtokyo1989 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks ! you are the best! keep it up :D

  • @paulhope3401
    @paulhope3401 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic guide...
    My Iflight H7 beast (BGA) is giving no start up tones, I'll try to use your guide to troubleshoot but perhaps BGA size chipset is not possible to repair?

  • @Tom-sp2xs
    @Tom-sp2xs 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Like always great job!

  • @marccretten
    @marccretten 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish i had your brain. You are amazing at this.

  • @sofyanhardiyono9152
    @sofyanhardiyono9152 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    correct method to check for the Short fet , since the Fet usually use Asymmetric configuration N channel Mosfet ...what about if the fet has break up inside? nice video..

  • @FlyZoneFpv
    @FlyZoneFpv 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is very well done. Thanks buddy. New sub here👍

  • @StasysFPV
    @StasysFPV 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are genius, supper video.

  • @jakubmazanek9745
    @jakubmazanek9745 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video , thank you a lot

  • @noobieflight2614
    @noobieflight2614 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome man!
    I wonder if same thing applies to tinywhoop esc 🤔

  • @slipperysebastian
    @slipperysebastian 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video!

  • @rcpete7055
    @rcpete7055 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very good fix!#😊 there is no wiring diagram for the wire harness on this esc??

  • @srul76
    @srul76 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Livu. I love your work. Watched all videos. Please keep your great work
    Can you please share where I can by the mosfets for this esc? I'm looking for zm019n03

    • @dankusmemus2350
      @dankusmemus2350 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I can't find these either, they are for a Furhling32, airbot I believe. Very annoying

  • @smoovegee3711
    @smoovegee3711 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the video.
    I presume you used Isopropyl alcohol (99%) for cleaning the PCB and not just any alcohol.
    But wondering how one would go about testing and replacing metal mosfet's like the IRF7480MTRPbF, found these days on ESC's like Holybro Tekko32 F3 65A metal for example.
    No 8 pins there, only 4 Drain's as far as I can see without removing them first.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Same principle :) gate drain source... Different footprint though thats it...

    • @smoovegee3711
      @smoovegee3711 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree, according to the footprint the sources are not located around the edges on the outside of the mosfet but in the middle area as wel as the gate so I can't reach that with the multimeter probe without removing it first. No obvious visible damage to see sadly enough. Looks like I'll have to remove them to test individually.

  • @DrewLittleFPV
    @DrewLittleFPV 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice work man!

  • @budgetdrone990
    @budgetdrone990 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video bro. U have video for aio board esc broken? Mean happymodel fc aio. Example.

  • @ZylonFPV
    @ZylonFPV 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice repair, difficult one to do! The fets you put on are different from the original fets - 721 04k vs 731 02k, so the performance might be affected. I guess you could order new fets of the right type from somewhere though

    • @SwiftingSpeed
      @SwiftingSpeed 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Those are manufacture date and assembly line markings, there's no difference in performance. 721 and 731 means 2017 week 21 and 31 respectively. The 04k and 02k are internal sequence and assembly line numbers.

    • @ZylonFPV
      @ZylonFPV 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Kevin Dahlberg ah, well that’s good to know, thanks!

  • @aerialpunkin1961
    @aerialpunkin1961 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Video series, thank you very much. I'm trying to fix an ESC right now and just starting out in SMD repair. I practised on an old ESC which has the same mosfets as the one I'm tying to repair, managed to get a misfit off of there but it seemed a LOT harder than in your video. I had my heat gun at 400 degrees and used plenty of flux, I'm wondering if the flux I'm using isn't the best for the job, does it make a big difference?

    • @Geoffh777
      @Geoffh777 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      As long as you don't use acid flux!

  • @BaliDroneServices
    @BaliDroneServices 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Livyu...,
    I am wondering on 10:40 did you only use cottom bud to clean up excess flux or did you use sort of normal alcohop 70% or anything else?

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cutton bud and apa alchool rubbing alvhool is like 99% ish

  • @forrealfishing4300
    @forrealfishing4300 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good job mate

  • @KwongKan
    @KwongKan 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    duuuuuuuude! nice job!
    you've got a new sub, by the way.

  • @Maorifpv
    @Maorifpv 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I used a dremel to make the screw hole bigger to fit a grommet, after that motor 1 runs intermittent …. Any idea what’s going on ? All mosfets looks fine with multimeter

  • @ryanhuckins6669
    @ryanhuckins6669 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow absolutely amazing.. do u do work for other people? I got some old school vintage esc id like to have looked at.. if so please let me know ill send them to you an we can work out a price your happy with.. thank you

  • @ConjoFPV
    @ConjoFPV ปีที่แล้ว

    Awsome video even 4 years later still relevant! I have a question tho. I heard you make a remark on it in another esc repair vid but id thought let me ask anyways. Is it possible to fix a fet where the fet pads fused because of excessive heat? I would love to repair my fettec esc but the pads are fused. And a new fet simply didnt fix it

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  ปีที่แล้ว

      No unfortunately because if the heat was so much to melt copper and fuse them together this means the PCB is deeply affected and I would not recommend a repair even if the pad is still there delaminated. better to throw it away

  • @sethboring8340
    @sethboring8340 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! Inspired me to get a hot air station. I tried to follow the links to purchase flux and PCB holder but looks like your links have expired. Thank you!

  • @christopherj3367
    @christopherj3367 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    where is best place to get replacement part's e.g. mosfet for the ESC? As I have a HAKRC 10A 4in1 ESC with one of the mosfet's blown but cant find a replacement small enough.

  • @edslatt3845
    @edslatt3845 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you give some links to the products you use? Vice, tweezers, flux.. Great video! Thanks for putting this out.

  • @cavman7
    @cavman7 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent. I have three of these boards where one motor channel has dropped. No I know what I need to do. Thank you

  • @ironlionfpv
    @ironlionfpv 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I need to replace a fet but can't find the original one, where do i need to look for to find a similar one that will work with my esc. I got a datasheet of the original one

  • @TomColontonio
    @TomColontonio 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing

  • @freshconnekt
    @freshconnekt 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Also what is a good re-work station. Would love to get a Hakka setup but I am not paying 1,000 bucks for something I will not use too much. I love soldering and I am good at it and would like to try some re-work

  • @riccdago
    @riccdago 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're Great Ty for help full

  • @denihei
    @denihei 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks man!!

  • @EZFPV-yb9sh
    @EZFPV-yb9sh 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    WOW!!! Thanks!!!

  • @jonyvilla23
    @jonyvilla23 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    hello friend, have you repaired escs 20x20 ?? If so, will you have a video? if not, can you make one? Cheers

  • @txflyerken173
    @txflyerken173 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, I have all the tools to do this as well but where is a good place to buy the mosfit chips? are they all pretty standard on the ESC boards? I was thinking Mouser Electronics? Thank you!

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      not standard. They are specific products. On some escs there are same fets used on some different.
      Digikey is a good place

  • @epp1026del
    @epp1026del 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice explanation and work!! Subd

  • @FlycamSky
    @FlycamSky 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Where to buy replacement mosfet for its correct type?

  • @SHURI3cinema
    @SHURI3cinema 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wait so is there a webstie where you can buy Mosfets? Or do you have go strip them from scrap parts?

  • @alessandropatriarca1321
    @alessandropatriarca1321 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good job

  • @Man-kd4ck
    @Man-kd4ck 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi. Thanx for your videos. I drop my Quad in to the snow and it's don't work now. The FC is work, VTX is work. ESC - don't work. I check all mossfet as you show - all right. But my ESC is make sound like clock "tik tik tik" and motors don't rotate when i power up. Elso, when i connect quad to PC Bheli_32 write "found no valid esc configuration". Can you tell that could it be?

  • @synthbe
    @synthbe 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can somebody tell me what the component is at 6:35 just below GND label with 0m50 on it ? I see this on all escs.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Shunt resistor (for measuring current)

  • @benoit7699
    @benoit7699 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi, i just discovered your videos and they are awesome!
    I have a Hobbywing 4in1 ESC which is malfunctioning, a phase is missing on motor 3. I have done continuity tests but I have not found it. Mosfets are ok, how to check the processor? thank you !!

  • @kristaandsimo916
    @kristaandsimo916 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for the great video as always I'm learning something from you .so question i dont have extra esc for the mosfets but do you know where i could buy them from please ?

  • @markmanning239
    @markmanning239 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Any way you can put out a video on ribbon repair, I broke off my Kalita f7 they actually give you a spare when you buy it new

  • @doc_ineeda_win5834
    @doc_ineeda_win5834 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I got like 4 betafpv f4 1s boards that escs has disappeared in flasher .. be like 2,3 missing 1 and 4.. one board I just hovered... new.. sat down flashed and they were gone.. any suggestions?

  • @ring0s
    @ring0s 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are you saying you changed the mosfet and ESC is working correctly? I have already repaired many ESCs and the mosfet replacement itself was not enough. Have you measured the voltage at the motor outputs before connecting it? If there is a high voltage there, you can damage the new mosfets or burn the motor. It is necessary to check the resistors between the mosfet and driver, they can also burn. If only the mosfet has been damaged in your ESC, then you are extremely lucky, because usually resistors, diodes, drivers and microcontrollers also burn.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Depends if the high or low sides brake or alltoghether ;) usually the new kind of drivers have protection in case the mosfet shorts. And some drivers have higher supplys voltage so I don't see any reason for them to brake. Is not like on a ac power supply... where hv gets to the driver...

    • @ring0s
      @ring0s 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      It would be good if it was as you write. For 10 repaired ESCs, 6 drivers are damaged and resistors on all damaged mosfets. One of the ten had a defective processor. It is often the case that the driver is damaged due to a broken processor.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ring0s well yeah i repaired well over 20 escs... and not even one had broken drivers because of broken fets except those that got crispy and they were dead because of the heat... but there are tons of not so good designs out there. So who knows. I repaired from Immersion, racerstar, dys, airbot,kiss, and more brands that I don't know and the ones that had dead drivers it was because of brownouts... but the mosfets were fine still so depends on the design mostly. The cheaper ones tend to have issues with the drivers with no apparent reason...

  • @dee1251
    @dee1251 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I blew mine but it looks like the filter capacitor blew , where can i purchase those?

  • @jessefpv9217
    @jessefpv9217 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've got same esc with exactly the same problem.

  • @Kettenhund75
    @Kettenhund75 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Livyu, why is it impossible to repair if they catch fire? I have a FETtec 45a 4-in-1 that I mistakenly flashed with the KISS ESC flasher and it did catch fire. I was hoping I would be able to repair it. Also, I have a Holybro Tekko32 that does not have continuity between either the positive or negative feed and any leg of the 4 esc's. It will connect to BLHeliSuite_32, but I get a message that there is no configuration loaded on any ESC. I cannot flash any of the ESC's. Can you point me in the right direction to fix this ESC? I have a hot air rework station as well as all the other tools you used in this video. Thanks!

  • @dooronron69
    @dooronron69 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can mosfets be purchased somewhere ?

  • @tyronerai9865
    @tyronerai9865 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where u get these mosfet to buy an how what number u look for

  • @DirkaDirka07
    @DirkaDirka07 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can I get a link to those tweezers please?

    • @Kettenhund75
      @Kettenhund75 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      www.amazon.com/Precision-Anti-static-Non-magnetic-Multi-standard-Electronics/dp/B06XXXQHS8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=pcb+repair+tweezers&qid=1620710192&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySlJHWDZZVTRCMk8yJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDM2ODkxMzBSUTIwS1ZLVzJPNSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzA4NDg5MkNKRFBUSEtTN1FSVCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

  • @crissan5035
    @crissan5035 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    why doesn't THE CLI do that for you on the BETAFLIGHT or clean flight its all programable the cli should give a error message for the motor output so you know where to start METERING.

  • @KeenEyeFPV
    @KeenEyeFPV 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    None of the links to your tools work anymore, would you mind re-posting or just telling us what equipment you use? Great video, very helpful thank you!

  • @yollera
    @yollera 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The mamba 506 esc use QN3109 mosfets, but I dont find the same, It says "QN3109 809 13K", can I use another replacement?

  • @weberentertainment2962
    @weberentertainment2962 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where can I buy spare fets, can't find the ones I need for my furling32 35a. Or what to search for when looking for the right fets.

  • @thespencerowen
    @thespencerowen 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for sharing. What camera setup do you use? I can never get close ups of my workbench like that.

  • @martyn5416
    @martyn5416 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it possible to damage ESC while soldering? I have one motor that doesn't spin on a new build, the motor does beep however. After trying to flash new firmware (it failed a few times on that esc) it now appears to work normally.

  • @Ismaelsk8
    @Ismaelsk8 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice Job
    TKS for share

  • @kordets
    @kordets 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you have any tips for diagnosing MOSFETs that have failed open, or the gate driver circuits without removing and testing each one?

  • @omhobby9481
    @omhobby9481 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I got my betafpv 16A esc broken on 1 motor..but three other esc normal
    I try continuity but nothing short...
    what else must be checked?

  • @PandaFPV
    @PandaFPV 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What if the mosfets are good but not getting power. I plug mines in and the motors don’t make sounds or move.

    • @LivyuFPV
      @LivyuFPV  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Maybe regulators... Check and see of the 5v and 3.3v are present on it

  • @aowbrasilfpv4797
    @aowbrasilfpv4797 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where do I get the fc diagrams?